J10

[segregator236]

I have photos of the twin-engine J-10C

[rohawkcc]

hmmm interesting, but does the chinese military have any "modern" combat experience? to my knowledge, thier military hasnt been truly tested... can we really and accuratley predict their combat capabilities? id appreciate a reasonable respose.

[segregator236]

@rohawkcc

Besides training, that's the only combat they get. Or maybe peacekeeping operations in Darfur?

[segregator236]

HEY did u guys hear of the new next-generation J-10B (super-10) that flew on December 26, 2008?

It's a 4.5++ generation stealth fighter that has AESA, TVC, DSI, and a hundred of other cool features.

[CCPJAYLPHAN1994]

Yeah!!!It's f******* nice

[Sturmfalke010475]

This is a copie of the Israeli Air Force plane called "Lavi". Just some changes...

Well china cant even build thier own planes without taking plans from other countrys.

[PUR3R4Z0R]

Wat if I say it is not? And I say it is indigenous design?? U got no evidence to support ur point, and I have.

[Sturmfalke010475]

Sure..

[fvkoff]

Piece of crap and pure garbage! Looks good on videos and absolutely no combat experience.

These planes like everything they manufacture are copies from everyone else original ideas. They steal everyone's design and try to claim it their own. Fucking POS bootlegs!!!

[PUR3R4Z0R]

? Dont need to hav combat experience to tell if it is a good plane or not. U want example mister? FIne, does F 22 hav any combat experience? Did any F 22 shot down any other planes? No, does that mean they r 'crap' as well? Think before u talk u garbage.

[HolyAngemon007]

i heard that J-10 beat J-11....

correct me if i'm wrong

[segregator236]

True.

[Setpblock]

Socom!? lol

haha

[KLA551K]

Is this the music from Socom? :D

[Blitzoace]

And actually, that photo on sinodefense with the front "ECM" antennae is most likely to be PSed. The front ECM looks grey, compared to the other ones which illustrate only a gap.

Anyway, if we take in the shape of the nose and recent Chinese radar technology (KJ-2000, KJ-200, Type 052C destroyer, all aesa) it isn't that inconceivable that China could deploy an AESA on the J-10B.

Though it may be fitted with a non ESA one first, it is clearly designed for an ESA radar in mind.

[Beliserius1]

" if we take in the shape of the nose"

There is No significant difference between F-16A, and F-16F

Indicating that the AESA radar, has no, or little to do with shape of the nose.

The strip, is most likely a Radar Warning Receiver, several designs are similar to it, including the one installed on the F-CK 1.

"KJ-2000, KJ-200, Type 052C destroyer"

large radars are a different story, most AWACs, and ship radars encorporate AESA, only due to the larger accepted size.

[Blitzoace]

All fair points. And your saying the F-16's nose shapes similarities are fair enough.

I don't know, I can name quite a few other points that say why the J-10B could use an ESA radar.

But it depends what your intentions are.

Mine is just to say there is a possibility there could be an AESA for the J-10B.

Oh and aren't AESA radar smaller than mechanically scanned radars?

PS: Can you not use quotes please? They are quite annoying sometimes.

[Beliserius1]

'I can name quite a few other points that say why the J-10B could use an ESA radar. "

there is a without a doubt that J-10B will use an ESA radar, since Russian modified Super-10 has it.

"Mine is just to say there is a possibility there could be an AESA for the J-10B."

Highly Unlikely, seeing that China, or Russia has never demonstrated the capability of producing a fighter sized AESA radar.

[Blitzoace]

The Super-10.... Hmm does it exist? Claims range from a J-10 with thrust vector and PESA to ones which are 5th generation and comparable to the F-35.

The Jane's article which mentions it, has not had one come out that we have seen yet.

Russia's got an AESA for the Mig-35 doesn't it?

I'm basing my ideas of China having an AESA from late developments with the radars i've mentioned before, as well as the J-10B's slanted radome.

[Beliserius1]

Super-10 is the Russian Designation of the J-10 with Russian upgrades (TvC AL-31 and PESA radar).

Segregator has been the 1 spewing about being a 5th generation fighter. I do not know where he gets that Bullcrap from.

yes, the Phazotron Zhuk-AE is an AESA radar, but it will not be availible for exports, hell it hasn't even been put into full production.

China has not demonstrated any capability of building an PESA radar, let alone AESA for their fighter jet. One cannot skip generation.

[Blitzoace]

Well the J-10B isn't 5th gen. I don't speak ill of my peers, but on this occasion I think he is wrong.

Skipping generations, isn't that what America did with their fighter radars?

And why can't a country skip from mechanically scanned to AESA? Because suprisingly enough it's what lots of followers of the PLAAF are saying about the J-10B.

[Beliserius1]

The F-16 had a PESA radar one time

the AN/APG-66

Im pretty sure the AN/APG-63(V)1 is also a PESA radar, since only recently, are the F-15s getting AESA upgrades.

PLAAF Followers have also been claiming the H-8 is a stealth bomber, the J-XX is as good as the raptor, etc.

Russia is not close enough to China to Share technology, let alone their Latest technology.

[Blitzoace]

Right. Well I'm talking about like.... followers who actually "follow" the PLA. Not just fanboys. For example no one knows if the H-8 exists. The J-XX is not sure if it exists either. But from the little information they can gather they come to the conclusion the J-jXX is aimed to be as good as the Raptor.

And Russia won't share any tech with China anymore, we declined their offer to build a 5th gen fighter.

Surely China has some self dependency.

[Beliserius1]

Look at the J-10, it needed the AL-31 engine

The WS-10 just came out, and well, we arent sure how it is just yet.

Then look at the J-11, it first was the Su-27Sk, then illegally duplicated by the Chinese.

Now, the J-11B is supposed to be the Su-33, which Russia now refuses to sell less than 20.

China has yet to demonstrate self-dependancy.

[Blitzoace]

A couple of confusing opints, but I get the gist of what you're saying.

The WS-10A.... Indeed we're not sure how it is yet.

J-11; well the J-11 was the Chinese name of the "manufactured under lisence" Su-27SK.

The J-11B was the unlisenced indigenous version of the Su-27.

The J-13 is the Chinese carrier fighter under development from experience gained from the J-11B. And the reports of China wanting Su-33's haven't been confirmed by the Chinese's yet. (lol chinese's...)

[Beliserius1]

hmm... perhaps I got confused with the J-11A, B, or whatever. But China did request to purchase, if i recall, around 5 Su-33s from Russia, which Russia refused.

[Blitzoace]

How recent was this request? Cause if it's the one around a month ago, it's quite unfounded.

[Beliserius1]

March 10th 2009.

"MOSCOW, March 10 (RIA Novosti) - Russia has refused to sell its Su-33 carrier-based fighters to China over fears that Beijing could produce cheaper export versions of the aircraft, a Russian daily said on Tuesday. "

"This time, Russia refused the Chinese offer even after Beijing had offered to buy 14 Su-33 aircraft, saying that at least 24 jets should be sold to recoup production costs"

[Blitzoace]

Yep that. I thought you were referring to that article.

Well I haven't heard anything from the Chinese side of this yet, so it may well be a fabricated or mis interpretation of facts.

I personally don't believe in many of the Russian military export news related to China, they know they do not hvae much they can export to China anymore, so they try to get as much cash out of China as possible.

Besides, 14 planes is barely enough for two carriers. Numbers don't add up.

[Beliserius1]

Exactly, 14 planes ISNT enough for 2 carriers, hence why Russia fears that the Chinese would do what they did with the Su-27. Purchase enough to fully replicate, then make their own.

Its not as far fetched as you think.

[Blitzoace]

Well it is quite possible. But the report I think originally came from a pro Russian Chinese person called Andrei Chang.

He's written lots of articles of China needing Russian help to make weapons, generally not having self dependence.

And if this order were true, I could consider China wanting to Reverse Engineer the plane for it's own J-13 use.

But the legitimacy of it simply doesn't stack up in my opinion. Sounds just like self hater writing.

[Beliserius1]

I dont know, Andrei Chang's article on the failure of the Su-33 purchase was written on 25th of March.

thats 15 days after the Russian website's post.

Also the fact that RIA Novosti also has an article on it...

[Blitzoace]

Well articles are often copied from news website to website.

There are two reasons I am skeptical about these articles.

1 It doesn't have any Chinese responses, or recently there have no been Chinese responses.

2 It's extremely classic Pro Russian. The articles are all similar to previous articles about China's inability to produce combat equipment.

Too... pro Russian. Leads me to think it's unreliable.

[Beliserius1]

Its from RIA Novosti, I highly doubt, the Russian information Agency would copy something from a Blog.

[Blitzoace]

Yeah I'm not saying it was copied. I'm more thinking that it was fabricated.

The fact that the Chinese haven't replied on this makes it more.... unreliable in my eyes at any rate.

That and the idea that the Chinese don't actually "need" the plane I think makes the report unreliable.

I dunno. It's just my 2 cents.

[Beliserius1]

Chinese havent replied, or make a big deal out of a lot of things. Remember the kittyhawk with Song class sub incident? The western media jumped up and down, while the Chinese were being dead silent.

"Chinese don't actually "need" the plane I think makes the report unreliable."

Whats the alternative?

[Blitzoace]

There's the J-13 and the naval J-10.

Well these things are all a matter of perspective.

[Beliserius1]

I dont think any of them are confirmed yet

[Blitzoace]

Well the thing with the Chinese military is that any developments are usually not confirmed.

There hasn't been any significant Chinese report of acquiring Su-33 since 2006 as far as I can remember.

The J-13 article can be found on chinese military aviation, though some of it's articles are extremely skeptical, and miss out massive amounts of information.

It's also been reported by Richard Fisher on Strategy Centre.

Anyway it's been an interesting discussion. Got to do homework now.

[Beliserius1]

"AESA radar smaller than mechanically scanned radars"

Yes, but PESA isnt Mechannically scanned.

unlike PESA, which uses one radiation source, AESA radar generates radiation via Modules, which could countain hundreds of them, generating different frequencies, individually. This is tremendously more complex, and depending on the techniques being used, may take more energy to operate.

Hence why only a few countries have them on a fighter jet.

I will stop quoting you next time, sorry.

[Blitzoace]

Yeah I meant ESA instead of AESA sorry.

I understand some of the basics of ESA radars, but not that much.

Sorry, what was the reason on why the J-10B won't probably have AESA again?

Is it that unlikely for the J-10B to have an AESA? I mean, there are some signs of perhaps an ESA radar being used for it from photos we've seen.

Is China not able to make an AESA at it's technology level?

And thanks; I don't know why I don't like quotes, I suppose it's the speech marks.

[Beliserius1]

The Chinese technologies are quite behind in the world, even by Russian standards. To answer your question, No. It is Extremely unlikely for China to make an AESA radar for a fighter jet without foreign assistance.

Russia in this case will be reluctant to share the AESA technology, considering the recent J-11 incident, as well as the fact that Russia does not have ToT agreements with China, under the pressure of India.

[Blitzoace]

I see... Hmm... well it'll be interesting to see what kind of radar the J-10B does have.

Many followers and bloggers say it's obviously designed for AESA, but may be fitted with mechanically scanned first.

But I feel that China has gotten all it needs from Russia militarily, apart from transport aircraft and engines. There haven't been any large order of radars that I have heard of yet.

[paredonparatodos]

quiero un millon¡¡¡¡ aceptan soja a cambio?

[ChesterDoraemon]

j-10 is causing many westerners to lose sleep. they must spend hours posting on youtube claiming how great their unproven paper aircrafts are.

[auto9898]

Unproven??? AHAHAHAHA Just how many conflicts has the J-10 fought in? A big ZERO. I bet the Chinese can't keep up with all the export orders! LOL

[IGNAZIOUS]

chinese and russian aircraft are the best, I hope Argentina air force get some J10, or russian Sukhoi, that is what we need. Yankee "planes" are expensive plastic toys, not intended for real war. only toys for the videos.

[Beliserius1]

"chinese and russian aircraft are the best"

Why is it that only developing, and under-developed countries that only buys them?

[IGNAZIOUS]

very simple, US aircraft are very expensive, bad optimized, expensive to maintain, technologically retarded, and the US Gov dont sell the materials to everyone, only to his prostitutes and "allies".

[Beliserius1]

"very simple, US aircraft are very expensive, bad optimized, expensive to maintain, technologically retarded, and the US Gov dont sell the materials to everyone, only to his prostitutes and "allies". "

Then how come only developed countries have US jets, while 3rd world countries, beg for them?

[segregator236]

A new version of the J-10, called the J-10B, flew on December 26 2008.

It features things like TVC, DSI, AESA, IRST, stealth, and MUCH MUCH MORE.

It is superior to Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale and is on the same level as the F-35 Lightning II.

[dudhala21]

Oh wow u got to be smoking. People have to read ur gay comments.

[segregator236]

Sorry, bud, bud that is the "gay" TRUTH.

Face it.

[dudhala21]

Yep. That is the "Gay" truth right. Fucking dumbass.This piece of shit cant beat the Eurofighter or the F-35. If u have the guts type it up on a F-35 or Eurofighter video. The same comment. Well see.

[segregator236]

Please, my friend, keep your jealousy and LACK OF EDUCATION to yourself.

Do some research.

[dudhala21]

Dude,im not building the jets so i have no point in being jelous. Iunno where u bring this shit from. I prob have more education then u if not in jets.

[segregator236]

This "shit", my friend, was brought from:

1. US spies (I don't know how the fuck they got to Chengdu without being discovered)

2. Eyewitness accounts

3. Interviews with PAF marshalls

4. Unveiled Chengdu proposals

5. Russian engine purchases

6. Russian sources

[dudhala21]

Buddy the US would own u anyday thats all i got to admit. PAF fucking barks to much. U purchased Engine and before u said "Indegeous technology".

[segregator236]

The US of course can "own" us if they paid enough money to buy each Chinese person as an assisstant. But there's 1+billion Chinese ppl, so that's out of the question. lol

Dudhala21, you did not read my comments carefully. I said that China also has indigenous engines (such as WS-10A and WS-13). China uses both.

[Beliserius1]

"Please, my friend, keep your jealousy and LACK OF EDUCATION to yourself.

Do some research. "

Need I remind you segregator, that YOU are posting Unconfirmed, highly unlikely information regarding the J-10B.

Need I also remind you that the Literacy levels of the USA, and Canada are significantly higher than that of the Chinese, so Do not make the assumption that he is undereducated.

[segregator236]

"Unconfirmed", "highly unlikely", are descriptions which you yourself posted without any confirmation, so please have a good look around.

Literacy levels simply means you can read and write. It means nothing else.

And what marks did you get when you were back in elementary and high school? That means the real thing, buddy.

Putting capital letters in a middle of a sentence only shows that you haven't learned much in school at all.

[Beliserius1]

""Unconfirmed", "highly unlikely", are descriptions which you yourself posted without any confirmation, so please have a good look around."

Actually, this has been confirmed by many sources, including several PLA watchers, some of which you may be familiar with, including Sinodefense.

"Literacy levels simply means you can read and write. It means nothing else."

That indicates the level of education in a country.

[segregator236]

Sinodefense? From what I've read, there isn't even a mention of a radar. And from most sources the radar is totally unconfirmed, but from pictures the AESA radar is very likely.

My friend, North Korea has the world's highest literacy level. That doesn't mean much (or maybe that they are the smartest people on Earth).

And the level and difficulty of school in the West is totally incomparable to the gruelling school time in China and Japan.

[Beliserius1]

"but from pictures the AESA radar is very likely"

PESA and AESA radars look VERY similar, one CANNOT tell the difference.

However, Neither Russian, or China has a prototype, or working AESA radar for fighters.

"My friend, North Korea has the world's highest literacy level."

They are not. Cuba is.

"West is totally incomparable to the gruelling school time in China and Japan."

Well its working for the west just fine, seeing how far ahead they are in technology.

[Beliserius1]

"And what marks did you get when you were back in elementary and high school? That means the real thing, buddy."

What about college/university? Marks don't matter as much as the level of education.

any employer will tell you that.

"Putting capital letters in a middle of a sentence only shows that you haven't learned much in school at all."

Never claimed it did, just putting emphasis.

[segregator236]

Level of education is determined by AGE, friend. Marks are determined by how much you know, how good are you at learning, and such.

[Beliserius1]

"Level of education is determined by AGE"

Wrong. One can be old, but uneducated.

Those who are Illiterate, are uneducated.

" Marks are determined by how much you know"

Wrong, marks determine how well you know.

Literacy Levels determine the how educated the public is, and the access of the public to Education.

[Beliserius1]

The J-10B is most likely, infact has been confirmed to be a Super-10(russian), with Russian upgrades.

Such as the AL-31 engine, and Russian PESA radar.

The Bullshit info you posted, is becoming more and more laughable.

[segregator236]

First of all, even if it's the Super-10, then the technical designation is still the J-10B.

The AL-31F M1 engine may be Russian, but the AESA radar is unconfirmed. For all we know, it might as well be indigenous.

All the "bullshit" I posted you will soon or later see on the actual J-10. So, laugh all you want. It ain't changing the truth.

[Beliserius1]

"First of all, even if it's the Super-10, then the technical designation is still the J-10B."

Never claimed the otherwise. Super-10 is merely a Russian desgination for their upgrades.

"The AL-31F M1 engine may be Russian, but the AESA radar is unconfirmed. For all we know, it might as well be indigenous."

It has been confirmed the J-10 would use the Russian PESA radar. Neither the Chinese or Russians have a working AESA radar for fighter jets.

All your "Bullshit" are still "Bullshit"

[segregator236]

PESA isn't confirmed, my friend. To this point, we don't know exactly which radar. So stop making things up. From picture comparisons, the J-10B has vents and noses for AESA radar (just like the F-16 Block 60 does).

My friend you don't even have a solid source so your comments are no good against my "bullshit".

[Beliserius1]

'J-10B has vents and noses for AESA radar"

That has even been quoted by SinoDefense to be likely ECM antennas.

Which makes a Hell lot more sense since NO other Jet with AESA radar has "Vents"

[Blitzoace]

Sinodefence is a very... Skeptical source. That's what makes them so reliable, they underquote everything so none of their information would be overly wrong.

And the vents are actually slime lights. But if you look at the shape of the nose you can tell it's obviously designed for an ESA radar. PESA/AESA we don't know. But I hear the Chinese are skipping PESA to AESA.

Watch my video on the analysis of the J-10B.

[peanutbutterblah]

Look everyone, its a panda-bear!!!

[ahmed90inc]

really awsum figher jet.....rock on china!!!

[sb941]

because those chinks are waiting for you to help them to design something their own, but you dont know how except jacking off yourself at home

[steliobruno]

aahahaah wtf

[segregator236]

Does anyone know which artist wrote the music or what is the title of the music?

[SaabGripenVII]

The Chengdu is nothing more than a cheap copy of the IAI Lavi, with a more powerful engine, and less capable avionics suite. The Gripen would knock the hell out of it. The Saab has a smaller turn radius, higher thrust to weight ratio, and a full glass cockpit with a powerful Ericcson look down / shoot down pulse dopplar radar. So long, Chengdu...it was nice knowing you!

[hawkforce]

What do you think Chengdu is? LMAO...

[SaabGripenVII]

Chengdu is the contractor, what's your point? You can just as easily refer to the Rafale or the Gripen as the Dassault and the Saab respectively. Doesn't quite work as well with American AC, though. I would never refer to the Falcon as the "General Dynamics". It doesn't have the same ring. I'll tell you what Chengdu is, aluminum fodder for the Rafale, Gripen, EF, and Su-30/35.

[wjli2]

its based on Lavi's design but not a copy.... J-10 use full glass cockpit... Super J-10 is coming out very soon with twin engine and vector thrust capability... so don't get too cocky with the Saab crap... just like the car it produces are shit house... you know there is a saying that a Swed would fight the Russian to the last Fin... no one buys the Saab aircraft other than the Scandinavian countries... Typhoon are even better....

[Doraemonchina]

@SaabGripenVII: ok keep your fucking tough talk until be grilled in the air by Chengdu!!!!

[SaabGripenVII]

The J-10 has absolutely no stealth capability, nor is it a better ac than the Saab Gripen. Are you delusional, or just plain stupid?

[wjli2]

J-10 is a generation 3 aircraft, not generation 4 or 5 aircraft aren't you smart enough to know that???... it was never designed with intention of having stealth or go against F-22... stupid idiot....

[appa609]

no it's a 4/4.5 gen.

[segregator236]

@wjli2

Actually it's considered a 4.5-generation aircraft

J-10B is considered a quasi-5th generation aircraft, according to CCTV.

[segregator236]

LOL we just owned the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen. The J-10 is better than the JAS-39 in EVERY SINGLE specification.

[ChineseKungFu01]

Very awesome video and music. thank you very much hawkforce, keep up the good work

J-10 is only the first step for China to design it high-tech fighter, J-12, J-13 and J-14 are coming soon

[segregator236]

And don't forget about the Chengdu Super-10 Stealth fighter as well.

[ChineseKungFu01]

I don't think the Super-10 had stealth tachnology.

[segregator236]

It does. They say it is being developed to match the J-XX.

[ChineseKungFu01]

I though it was the J-14/J-13/J-12 who will got stealth, not Super-10.

[segregator236]

Well, then how good is the Super-10? I heard it could own all of the American air-superiority fighters.

[segregator236]

By the way, do you know when is the J-13 and the J-14 entering service?

[ChineseKungFu01]

The J-13 and J-14 maybe enter service in 2015

[segregator236]

I heard the J-XX will be done by 2010.

[ChineseKungFu01]

It is? That's good news, but i think it will be the first flight, not enter service

[segregator236]

I agree. First flight in 2010. It will enter active service in 2015. All of China's future Stealth fighters are better than ALL of America's fighters. And the J-XX is cheaper to build than America's most advanced fighters.

[ChineseKungFu01]

I don't give much hope that our future stealth fighters can beat ALL of American fighters. At less i hope it can compare with F-22 on the same level. If USA got 183 F-22 in the future, than we built more than 200 or 300 J-XX.

[segregator236]

Chinese sources say that the J-XX can beat the F-22 and the F-35.

[ChineseKungFu01]

I don't believe Chinese sources, becoz they lie too much. And sometime they make the story up or sometime they cover up. We all don't know the true can J-XX beat F-22 or not. But i believe J-XX can beat F-35.

[segregator236]

Yeah. The advanced J-14 and the J-13 are supposed to be China's best fighters.

[appa609]

yeah, it's like terminator vs raptor. 4 raptors could be surrounded by 6/7 j-xx's and they'll preform on the same level, eventually causing the raptors to get fucked and at least two j-xx's to survive.:D

[segregator236]

I just searched up on Wikipedia. It says that the Chengdu Super-10 in fact IS a 5th-generation Stealth fighter.

[51Panda]

Just like BrahMos happy doing its dance of death from the belly of a Sukhoi, J-10 has furry little under-belly to deliver Barbur and Sunburn extending the range and severity of the Charlie Foxtrot US just found itself in.

Long live J10 and the Sino-Pakistan (Barbur) and India-Russia (BrahMos) friendship presstv DOT ir

[segregator236]

That is right! Long live PRC fighters!

[badboypass]

Iran has just ordered 24 J-10s.

[segregator236]

What's the music titled?

[vanvanss]

nateboy is a great pile of bullshit, in his mouth...everwhere he get around... CHINA did work J10 project by ourselves... if you asshole said CHINA copied from eu, why all the experts in eu just keep silent? use your ass brain to think...many thanks.. asshole

[dat8r1]

by ourselves? design and technology are brained from Israel Lavi company and powered by russia engine ( su-27 engine ) sorry for your patriotism

[CaptainCool07]

it dosen't matter as long as it kicks ass

[maddyb91]

Anyone think that the Chinese Air Force will sell me one of these!

[segregator236]

I love the music.

[sonofhendrix]

im sure thats the chinese jet from BF2.

[exellent123]

yes

[segregator236]

I LOVE THE MUSIC!!!

[nateyboy23]

ur proud of ur country stealing jet ideas...ok there is no honor in cheating. thats cowardly. I am graceful with honor. I'm Proud of it!

[segregator236]

Yo. Just because the J10 looks like the Typhoon doesn't mean it is copied from the Typhoon. Lots of people have similar ideas, you know. For example, if a country develops an implosion nuclear bomb, wouldn't that be copying the American design, too?

[nateyboy23]

it is a good video but it looks too much like the euro fighter typhoon. sorry dude but dont be proud of somebody elses idea that came from europe. there ideas were stolen because china cant make good planes themselves. im not a euro and for me to say that tells alot about the shit china doesnt tell there poeople they stole technology from the west. PEACE OUT BITCHES

[Puntonghua]

Europe also coppied allot of Chinese inventions from China years ago.... China is just returning the favor ;-)

[alienpug123]

nateboy is absulutely right

[segregator236]

This is awesome! I love this video! I am Chinese, and I'm proud of it!