Conversations With History: The Ascent of Money

[d0gm34t]

youtube.com/watch?v=4Xx_5PuLIz­c

[iammuradhussain]

His tie is testament to quick thinking when you have diarrhea and no toilet paper, bravo, sir, bravo!

[justnotcricket]

One of our better public intellectuals, and a fine historian too... but a terrible political theorist.

[JordanMargetts]

@justnotcricket I agree, his economic history is great, but when it comes to international political history he's a typical flag waving imperialist.

[theseanze]

what's with the intro music?

[MsKristi99]

Very informative and well presented. Yet I think that N. Ferguson misses at least one important aspect of securitization: namely that it is a fast track to create debt without creating money. I have illustrated this issue in my blog (blog.logicoffinance, article Securitisation -- Fast Way to Create Debt)

[rgainsburg]

7 people were creeped out by Harry Kreisler's tie.

[BabyuaTawnyaa941]

hÍhi_ãný_guYs_wåÑt_tõ_chåt_wIt­h_mÈ

[philnoll]

The bubble will always burst.

[Koolblak1]

My God the American professor's voice is cringe-worthy. Ferguson speaks so lucidly.

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

You can't solve societies problems operating in intangible ideas such as money, we need to come to an understanding that we are not separate from the universe and stop operating under abstractions, especially horrible ones like money which rewards pollution, negligence, crime, etc. I mean honestly you people who support this, are you that stupid that you can't see that if the social organization rewards certain types of behavior then they will occur? do you get all you answers from authority?

[doujin01]

@0hmyy0utubeusername Well the thing is about money is first of all the 'concept' of money has been with us so god damn long, well its was well the only such thing to work. Also about money that if being "rewarded" is given for pollution, negligence, crime, etc. I think it can work/reward that other side of the spectrum as well. You have to remember that we live and exist in a world of scarcity that the idea money is only logical as well the idea of money might go away. So what I think about it.

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

@doujin01 The idea that we still live in a world of scarcity is no longer accurate. We have the capabilities to produce an abundance, think about it factories operate one shift a day at times, or even postpone production altogether because their product is not selling. Food manufactures dispose of "excess" quantities of food to keep the prices higher. Scarcity in the world today is man-made, it is not a result of natural limitations. That is the difference.

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

@0hmyy0utubeusername Please youtube search the video awakening by tzmsocialevolution. Please watch that and it will give you a more clear explanation of the withholding of efficiency and of the willing production shortages when real demand for the product still exists. It is not simply ok to consider what products someone needs based on the purchasing power of an individual. The money system was acceptable in a world of natural scarcity but we live in a world of scarcity by profit motivation.

[doujin01]

@0hmyy0utubeusername Ok. Ok I get what you are saying. But you know what? There always going to be greed/desire no matter what.

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

@doujin01 I also hate to say it but I absolutely disagree that greed and desire are some natural attributes, and there is clear evidence against that. There was some memorable research done with children in a daycare, they had control groups of children and in each group each child had a different number of toys. The group where each child had 4 different toys but only one of each toy, led to some children taking the toys from the other children, leading to and unfair distribution.

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

@doujin01 However in the group where each child had 4 of each of the 4 varieties of toys, no greed nor negative emotional traits were displayed within the children(they have video of this somewhere, check it out). It is the environment of scarcity and the fact that it is possible to benefit by displaying greed and violence so that one may secure resources for themselves. However it is proven with children that if they are raised in an environment of abundance they will not display this behavior

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

@doujin01 Also, it is important to be scientific in our pursuit of answers to any problems. We should never use language like "no matter what". The history of humanity is a history of nothing but change and I for one am very curious why so many people hold these "no matter what", "will never change" state of minds. I know that these state of minds were adopted as a reaction to the environment, however I'd be curious to research exactly how. Let's just ask questions and not assert answers.

[doujin01]

@0hmyy0utubeusername alright then, in all honest the reason why i said that is well put it this way, through out history that there were certain traits/events/moments that happened so "many" times and for so long that it "seems" that "if it happen in the past, it going to happen again". I always believe that if anything can be good or bad or "the middle". And the fact is, "HOW" do you make good? "HOW" do you make it bad? Its the how.

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

@doujin01 Just check out more about the the Venus Project, noone over there claims its perfect or anything like that, but we are trying to do scientifically verifiable "good", and anyone can contribute to it. The goal is to put the tools for self development so that everyone can have a chance to reach their potential in a self motivated way. i hope you will check us out and join the movement.

[doujin01]

@0hmyy0utubeusername Well, I have read read the "venus Project" on wikipedia. I find the idea/concept fascinating but do you think that going to be easy to remove such an idea as money? Why was it created in the first place? That is what you got to ask before challenging something/anything. That all I'm saying. I could go on but it just to tiresome in all honesty.

[doujin01]

@0hmyy0utubeusername Actually I do have one thing to say. While it is only "inevitable" (But not for along time) I think we should make the most of it until actually appropriate to "remove" it. I'm just saying.

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

@doujin01 Actually no it became an imperative to change away from a monetary system that inherently results in aberrant behavior and even rewards it, when the nuclear weapon entered the arsenals of military men who do not know how to analyze foundational root causes to problems. These men see "military solutions"(possibly the most cliche word I have ever heard, military action is the worst failure of being unable to solve a problem) that don't solve anything, and may end us all.

[doujin01]

@0hmyy0utubeusername I just don't get your pessimism with the idea. Just remember I not defending it or anything like that, I'm just curious of why you make the assumption that money is only bad? Like I said before, money can be good as well, it is an just a way of "dealing" with the world. That all I'm just curious really.

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

@doujin01 Doujin I'm not going to go one about this anymore but I will say one last thing, yes money did work before when real scarcity existed however the time of real scarcity is over, now we only have contrived scarcity. I want to ask you; what interest is it to resist a change that is obviously for the benefit of society and of our planet? Do you know where your strong allegiance to this system comes from? Answer these questions for yourself though, and think about them, I don't needa reply

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

@doujin01 One more quick thing, I don't operate under pessimism of optimism, I operated under probability, it is a more effective way to orient myself I feel. There is a much higher probability of corruption under the current system than in the system that I support, therefore I support the option that is more likely to benefit our sustainable existence and the health of our planet.

[doujin01]

@0hmyy0utubeusername already then if you stand by that go ahead. I have no problem.

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

@doujin01 We don't have a long time especially with the escalating levels of military technology. You will see major impacts of the zeitgeist movement within your life certainly, perhaps when the movement grows and becomes a bit more populous you will join in. Many people will not support something based on an analysis of the cause but only by a bandwagon mentality, perhaps that is you, I can not say. But anyways, if you want to find out more go to the sites. I'm quite busy and cant respond more

[doujin01]

@0hmyy0utubeusername Just as I said before, if it can be bad than it can be good.

[steinijg]

Just finished reading The Ascent of Money and I have to say it was one of the best books I read this year and in fact one of the better books I've read having to do with economic matters.

Would highly recommend it to anyone who wishes to deepen his understanding of the history of the modern economy!

[TheZanipolo]

the Pish Professor of Harvard University etc etc etc - sounds like the ascent of Niall Ferguson, he seems to like collecting very part-time positions at various universities, what an arrogant berk

[RGT88]

I think he drives the point home much like Peter Schiff, Marc Faber, Jim Rogers, David Tice, Nassim Taleb, and many others who saw this crash coming. This was in fact a consequence of irrationality, but moreso lending standards which GSE Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac completely abolished, low interest rates set by Fed which paved way to ARMs, and Wall Street getting drunk on this party. Nevermind complete overreliance on econometric models.

[Jesusizjdoe]

The point is missed me thinks!

:-That being that money is a male creation the fact it "has to go up and down " just proves that the "man" is talking "male" "bollocks! It's one thing teaching how we got here it's another to project it's always going to be that way because "that's the way were made"! Err NO actually !!

:-Just as vital as someone growing corn! Oh GO AND PUT A CRACK IN YOUR FACE AND MAKE YOUR ARSE JELOUS!

[andrwrhds21]

Niall Ferguson is like James Bond

[TheCameo86]

This guys an idiot. He blamed the mortage meltdown on interest rates instead of lending standards

[coolgreyoneabby]

@TheCameo86 No, He specifically talks about the push to get those who cannot afford mortgages into the market with more complex products that they do not understand. Those mortgages were bundled and securitized then sold to far off investors. That would clearly fall under lending standards. Interest rates were merely the trigger that brought down the house of cards. Idiot he is not.

[pogovoreem]

@TheCameo86 At minute 31 he blames lending practices and not interest rates.

[joecapaldi]

You should also read 'Fooled by Randomness' (a masterpiece) and 'The Black Swan' by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. He writes a lot about the misuse of the Bell Curve in prediction, and other problems in financial prediction.

[needparalegal]

The stupidity of the public is shocking. When I tried to explain to recent immigrants who were buying houses why the prices could not simply keep going up year after year they thought I was crazy. After the crash they thought I was a genius.

[dvdx87]

The music for this is from Apple's Garage Band. I can tell because I have made something very similar to this sound. hmm.....interesting.

[apocolypse1022]

He didnt expect Wall Street to be part of the problem at 20:05 and on.....but he predicted a crash, he sells it well.

[bhushantups]

Well he interviewer is certainly a slow speaker.. very slow speaker apart from that what was noticeable is that Nell has certainly done huge amount of ground work before publishing the book.... GREAT JOB!!!

[TheAa06]

brilliant & an absolute must for anyone who has anything to do with money

[1888junkteam]

excellent worker!

[Rentaghost76]

Americans love a British accent, that is why this bloke is so npopular there. Hes actually not that clever, but dumb yanks lap him up because of his accent. lol@yanks!

[jmusker54]

you must be very young

[cloudedjourney]

@jumba146

When you make a comment like that, you just make YOURSELF sound like an idiot.

[tridentlax13]

I honestly think that this book/program should be mandatory before you can have any legitimate opinion about economics and finance.  It's broad and high level, yet very educational for the average person.

[JupiterLuv]

That's true. Its a good thing my teacher put this as one of our assignment for art history class. I actually enjoy learning it.

[nbm34]

@tridentlax13 BULLSHIT. He proposes the BANKSTERS are the hiden hand that helps exchnge of goods etc.The fact THAT governments guarenntee small accounts for these SHYLOCKS, and that most of the worlds politicians are just as corrupt as THE banksters, feedibg of BANKSTER MONEY. lIKE THE TORIES in Britain who recieved 32 million £ for their party as services rendered, and those to come etc.What we see is a historical past and present to create stable jobs and homes. MONEY is a historic cancer.

[alique087]

@nbm34 You prefer a type of barter system?

[nbm34]

@alique087 NO even if shells were used BANKS would cause a SHELL CRISIS.It is the evolution of MONEY that is the cancer gene. Societies will now live or die, because MONEY alone can not

produce growth fast enough to build all the homes and jobs for next generations. ONLY A RESOURCED based economy, operated by MACHINES doing ALL HUMAN LABOUR, is the answer. Presently Global PRODUCTION 30% LABOUR 70% machines. It will peak soon so why wait. WE DO NOT NEED MONEY.

we need the VENUS PROJECT.

[philnoll]

@nbm34 Suddenly it gets a little colder, and a whole bunch of creatures die.

[nbm34]

@philnoll NO THIS IS NOT A NATURAL event in human history. IT IS MAN MADE, like cutting down the last tree etc. THE CAUSE AND EFECT, can be changed by human intervention in the now more than obviously dysfunctional capitalist system. IF WE DO NOT CHANGE IT THEN you and your family, will like the rest of us

will be the bunch of Creatures who die. DO NOT BE CYNICAL get off your arse and do something.

[philnoll]

@nbm34 The "creatures" that died were the wall street investment banks.

[nbm34]

@philnoll My apologies I misread your Analogy.

[philnoll]

@nbm34 I got it from the video. This guy is pretty interesting. His facts are pretty accurate, even if he spins it in support of the banksters, he still lets us know that the world is controlled through finance.

[nbm34]

@philnoll I fear these so called academics telling us, what we already experience in the history of modern Capitalism, hides the real issues in how we can eliminate finance, in the means of production. Also to make the means of production operate for real human needs and safety, etc. UNLES THE BANKSTERS go digital with money and chip us all, so we can not live by any means outside their system. This will just prolong the agony, as NATIONAL DEBTS will not dissapear etc.

[philnoll]

@nbm34 I don't like the way the Venus Project is proposed with near religious conviction. "We need the Venus Project," as if its these communist robot societies are the only solution. Indeed, its a good idea. But it doesn't exist. In fact, according to Fresco himself, it would take an economic meltdown to implement it.

[nbm34]

@philnoll YOUR PERCEPTION of Religous conviction, is misrepresentative of the real issues involved. I have heard Fresco, Joseph,and Meadows etc clearly say that this IS THE BEST ALTERNATIVE from a scientific economic and social perspective of current erudition of the data available. That you do not question that ROBOTS and computers can not be made to do most human labour. Is evident that WE ALL KNOW with the will we could make such a society to-day. THE MELDOWN is on its way.

[nbm34]

Their are lots of people on the GROUND not going to wait for the GLOBAL VP scenario. We will try to build our own self sustaining groups, at a local level in co-ooperatives, with as much machines as we can employ in such a system. THE STATE WILL NOT SAVE US. WE CAN ONLY SAVE OURSELVES.

This realisation will set in well before we see the real ECONOMIC TSANMI hit us. Peak OIL is already with its cost the MELTING NUCLEAR BREAKDOWN of the world as we know it.

[jjcale1111]

@tridentlax13 The Rotchshilds agree with you .... Fergie is their boy

[Aspetta17]

Niall makes me melt <3 <3 <3

so hawt :)

On a different note: I think the whole problem is a certain axiomatic principle that the State and the Marketplace both have in common:

The concept of ownership, and the enforcing of one's claim of ownership on others. I think this is the first cause of all corruption in both camps.

(not that I have the slightest clue what to do about it LoL I'm just saying..)

[BeaucoupRed]

The Ascent of Money just aired on PBS. Pure garbage. I've come to rely on PBS for objectivity however this program fell short. They completely understated the role of the World Bank and IMF in crippling nations across the globe through structural adjustment loans. The loans require the countries to slash social spending, sell off mineral resources and national industries for foreign investors which in turn renders a country totally impotent.

Google: Naomi Klein/John Perkins for reliable info.

[Americaisgreat123]

Yes lets google a Canadian journalist for reliable economic analysis......

[BeaucoupRed]

Naomi Klein is Canadian. Your point is unclear.

[Americaisgreat123]

Yes, find me a professional economist that will stand with Klein.

[Xenostrobe]

I've not been keeping an eye on her website recently but her thesis has apparently stood up to challenges remarkably well. She took her argument to the Chicago school itself, if I'm not wrong, and I think she was taken very seriously indeed, extraordinary woman, seems to me.

[Americaisgreat123]

I have not yet read her (Klein) book, I own and and have flipped through it, and I have yet to be impressed. It looks like a liberal hack job. She seems to know where he stands on the issues, but it doesn't seem like she understand why the libertarians or Friedman take those stances. She really fails to think like an economist. There is a funny youtube video where Friedman indirectly debates her. She finds it hard to believe you can help someone without intending to. That is a sign of an amateur

[Xenostrobe]

I'd recommend Phil Donahue and Ayn Rand, on youtube. Fails to think like an economist or a 'Neo-classical' economist? I suggest Post Autistic Economics. I'm sure he has many 'amateur' moments, probably unlike Friedman, he was also extraordinary but note his use of the word 'Greed', it wasn't considered a sin for nothing. I'm hopeful about Invisible Hand, as concieved by A.Smith - what about as discussed by Moyers and Goleman (youtube)?

[Xenostrobe]

I meant she (amateur moments)

[BeaucoupRed]

Something about you reminds me of kids who were deep into dungeons and dragons.

You appear to live inside of your head and wax poetic on a theory you understand in a limited fashion. A theory constructed by the elite for the purpose of manipulating the public with little resistance.

[Americaisgreat123]

What is elitist about the free market? About letting the collective wisdom of a free people work?

I guess you think you can make better decisions for people.

Has that ever worked?

[BeaucoupRed]

A free-market economy is explicitly structured to benefit the elite. Yet again you appear to demonstrate a stark disconnect in regards to who drives this theory. Wealth supports this system largely because it allows them to unfairly exploit markets without restriction.

[Americaisgreat123]

I'd rather be "exploited" in America, Hong Kong, South Korea, or Britain than to live in a "workers paradise" in Cuba, North Korea, or Venezuela. In the former countries, I can be both poor and fat!

[BeaucoupRed]

Fair enough. You absolutely have the right to decide who governs your life.

Just curious. You mentioned in your profile that the Bible is one of your favorite books. Are you a Christian? If so, how do you make sense of both free-market and biblical doctrine when the two contradict one another?

I'm rather perplexed by fundamentalist Christians who often gravitate toward pro-business ideology.

Perhaps you can offer some insight...

[Americaisgreat123]

I can't tell if your being sincere or just a jackass. If your being the former, I'll be glad to address your question.

[BeaucoupRed]

You know exactly where I'm coming from, and you opt to play naive.

I will repeat: How does you free-market views balance with your fundamentalist Christian beliefs?

Prepare to have your Achilles heel exposed.

[Americaisgreat123]

Because free markets have been the only proven way to lift up the poor. It may not be well intentioned (which is what statists find emotionally satisfying), but it has always created opportunity. I've definitely lived the American dream. I've lifted myself out of a standard of living very few Americans have ever endured.

I'd rather be poor in South Korea, Hong Kong, or American, than be even middle class in Cuba, China, or any well intentioned socialist regimes.

Freedom is Christian.

[Americaisgreat123]

When have free markets created a circumstance where the poor have a lower standard of living than under anything else?

Poor people in South Korea and America vs poor (or hell, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) or even middle class people in Mexico or Cambodia? Who's better off?

[Aspetta17]

I believe in free-markets, but not free-market capitalism. Capitalism is definitely structured to benefit the elite.

For anyone who doesn't believe that, let me offer up some real world proof: LOOK AROUND YOU lol

[CosmoPearl]

@BeaucoupRed Absolutely right! The frustration now is greater than it used to be. People have the choice to know and can actually learn much to make up their own minds, if not through complicated books then via interesting publicly available audiovisual documentaries. Yet, they don't. It's soon categorized as "conspiracy theory". The ruler in thier high seats laugh and say: "what you know! Great secret are easier to hid. They will always be met with public ridicule"

[CosmoPearl]

I salute your strong mind!! ;-) The only one hear who actually knows something..

[BeaucoupRed]

Thank you.

The educational system/media culture in the US has failed it's people. Many lack the ability to process information with any degree of clarity, nor are they equipped recognize the fine line between faux reality and actual world. Credit the explosion of Reality TV with dumbing down the country a points as well.

[ytartapo]

It baffles me how no one seems to call it like it is. The cause of our current economic woes is your neighbour's inflated lifestyle expectations. Oh, and his neighbour too.  Here's look'n at ya!

[Xenostrobe]

True, and, read Bill Bonner on Love In The Age Of Viagra. It comes back to sexual selection, nothing rachets up the pressure to cheat and lie like that stuff. 'Tell them what they want to hear'?

I think the most powerful corrective will come in the form of something like what Bill Moyers and Goleman talk about on youtube

[MyFathersBusiness]

This video talks about the world's perspective of money - mammon or lucre

[oxogenius2009]

Just watched Niall's six part documentary series on the "ascent of money" on the ABC and found it highly informative and very helpful. He has a great understanding of money and rather than attacking or defending the system he tells it the way he sees it and leaves the listener or viewer to decide.

[ungerbn]

Ferguson makes some interesting points, such as de-radicalizing the American Left by trying to make as many citizens property/home owners.

However, despite his clarity and articulate presentation, he massively minimizes how the greed of investment banking and insurance companies have lead to unnecessary bubbles and that they no longer seem to "serve" the greater good of the common man.

[TheTopBloke]

Not exactly, he asserts you can never get rid of those bubbles.

[herbs814]

you can never get rid of financial bubbles without getting rid of central banks (fed reserve, bank of england, bank of china, bank of canada, etc). When central planners are given more power, they create bigger catastrophes (and then insist that they must be given more power to prevent the problems that they created.)

[herbs814]

The greed of central bankers and socialist government created the fuel for the greed in the private sector. The cause of greed and corruption is always the concentration of power within the government and their government-approved banking monopoly (central banks like the "federal reserve")

[steelpanther88]

my mum bought me this book, im really interested in history, but i got a kind of a crappy grade from my economics course, havent read yet, but hopefully its a nice book that clears up some things.

[funkboybilly]

The interviewer is really bad. His questions are seem formulated on-the-spot. Either way, he's plain annoying. Niall manages to plug away, snobbishly but interesting, at that.

[Kawagi1]

yes, it is true the origin of things, ideas and so on is really very important to understanding of things why they are the waythey are.. and where they can go to.and how can we get there..

[AbtinX]

Cheesy intromusic 2.0 :) Still remember the original, a true classic in the category of cheesedom

[trufiend138]

the only reasons property prices went down in the 30's and 90's was becuase of massive unrelestic speculation, govt. corruption. NOT becuase any natural law of supply and demand. Bubbles must be squashed Before they burst..that is what history financial teaches us...but politicians get paid to look away by the business interest...this guy is a FOOL...

[trufiend138]

pompous ass...not only do single volume already exists (and better one at that) his book doesnt even rank top 10....never trust an author who's NAME appears larger than the title, on the cover of the book.

[Sethernis]

Haha, well he is keen on telling how he foresaw it all. Yet, he may or may have a huge ego but his writing is fantastic. I've read over 5 of his books, all were detailed and brilliant.

[hogiesNbasss]

garage band intro...

[lightweight2000]

globalization=nwo

[willberb]

,,loved the intro music. It made my heart dance.

[lightweight2000]

agreed, it was very thought provoking indeed

[stealthswimmer]

The New Deal stuff didn't work as far as I've gathered. More people might have owned homes in 1950 but that was after World War 2...which decreased unemployment because more unemployed people were dead due to the war.

Anyways, this is an awesome vid!

=)

[amonalisa32304]

Just wondering why my comment a few minutes ago didn't get posted?

[odiggler]

Watch "Zeitgeist" here on youtube, and see through the BS that controls us.

[stealthswimmer]

they don't really "control" us but they do regulate a significant part of daily transactions. Ultimately, it's not like they can just do whatever they want.

[lightweight2000]

oh really?

[stealthswimmer]

Ya RLY. U mad?

:p

[lightweight2000]

hmm, new deal, how about New worlD order!

im not mad, im insane

[stealthswimmer]

lol

[RonRepublican]

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

[stealthswimmer]

To the people...not the government.

I just wanted to make that a point there. Some folks believe that government and "the people" are one and the same.

How do we allow the people to have control over money? Through private institutions...such as banks...but not a central bank. Thus, leaving the control to the market.

[lightweight2000]

well why dont we get outta dodge and give the entire continent back to the native tribes?

[houxy]

"In, of all places, Edinburgh." What? Is Edinburgh such a strange place. Is this an example of English anti-Scottish snobbery?

[aeconger]

Ferguson is Scottish. I think he was being modest.

[mooody12]

I didn't like the interviewer. The Andrew Denton look a like when he's sixty, Harry whats-his-name. Also the intro music was awful, and having a blurred churched with a cheap typeset over it, didn't make sense. What the hell was all that about?

However, interested in buying this book, and seems a good nutshell about it...cheers