i love this theory, because the idea behind it is brilliant. also, i dont think Rinoa changed from good to evil, but she became lonely, and over hundreds of years alone in her domain, she just went crazy, making her - ultimecia - very human.
i believe in Square here, but DAMN i love that theory.
end of the day its just one big time loop edea says summat about her reciving powers from an injured sorcoress a long time ago which is basically what happens in th end so thn the cycle repeats itself, edea gets powers ulti/rinoa isnt actually dead: Rinoa actually says this : "Even if we do defeat ulti it wont stop her from being born". You can always change ur future. The games events happen squall dies after the game she becomes evil, then the gang in the past come for her time loop again XD
One of your arguments is invalid in that Squall doesn't die at the end. If you wait till after the credits (as you should with EVERY FF game), you will see that he is fine and well.
still instresting and good points thou...and i could start arguing about it but since i haventh played ff8 for years now i dont think i recall the game well enough to start a proper argument..
@MagatsutheCalamity I don't care for FF8 either but it did have some good things about it ; junction system, overall visual design, amazing music, addictive card game that was useful
now the bad of it, terrible characters, retarded storyline and time consuming draw system =X=
rinoa is not ulitmecia. its common logic. ultimecia from the future and the main characters are from the present. even if ultimecia is rinoa why would she kill herself? the time compression has nothing to do with it, because if she killed her past self she wouldnt exist in the future.
Rinoa and Ultimecia simply represent the classic good vs. evil. They contrast in nearly every way, including appearances. The white vs. black wings, red vs. blue, black hair vs. white hair. Ultimecia didn't have a support, so she was tainted and evil. Rinoa did have a support, so she was pure and good. The theme of loneliness and relying on others is laced throughout the whole game, and the two added to it. I think R=U fan speculation is simply looking too deeply into the story, no offense.
Note that Ultimecia's power include the ability to animate Dead object (Statues on the podium on first disc become a living being). She can also call upon things from her mind to make it a certain magic (Apocalypse is derived from her mind).
Second theories about evil from adel transferred to a sorcerer isn't valid either since Edea, which was possesed for a long time, does not exhibit the same behavior
One thing about the griever, Squall and the team confronted them by the help of Ellone's Power.ultimecia take the form of Griever's likeness from Squall's mind,the reason why he takes that from Squall is because he believes that Squall is the Seed destined to kill him, so he took a beast (GF) perceived from his mind.
First of all, I don't think that things in dissidia should be taken that seriously cause it's only side-games... Beside, if Ultimecia is Rinoa, that dance thing wouldn't be a valid reason to say Ultimecia is Rinoa (cause theoretically she would lost her memorie due to junctioning
I think this theory does make sense... where else could Ultimecia have come from? And one hint I've noticed is the name "Ultimecia". It's like they named her that on purpose so it would sound as if the character created her own name after forgetting her original name. (Also, if you apply the Squall is Dead theory alongside this theory, then that means that only in his dream-hallucination does Rinoa become a future evil sorceress.)
edea starts with powers that she gives to rinoa, then ultimica dies goes back to the past to give edea back her origional powers however as ultimicia actually dies in the past she cannot exist in the future therfore leaving edea and rinoa the only one with sorceress powers and as they are no longer evil ultimicia would not be created unless squall started knobing selphie behind rinoas back. ................. Now to get on with my life, fuck it im stickin on FF VIII
but the only person that could have done this is ellone but as ultimicia is hunting ellone would prob rule that theory out. K Also at the final boss fight true ultimicia starts telling the party some freaky stuff in the middle of the battle, things quite similar to what rinoa tries to get squall to understand about himself especially around the time of the concert for squalls promotation and when their in space. also ellones not present when they storm the castle. and as for the end time loop
white seeds are edeas seeds thus giving us a good clue that edea is still alive at this this point making it seem that ultimicias reign is not too far into the future from when squall and co create time compression which makes its certainlly possible rinoa is still alive too. 2ndly only 2 sorcesses exsist at this point rinoa and adel and adel future weren't too bright at the start of disc 4. Or maybe some1 else took adels powers when she kicked the bucket
........ k think i got this. first of all greiver is not squall. GF's are magic created by Doc Odine in esthar as well as w magic b magic etc. now as for ultimicia she wanted to create time compression because she is the only one that can exist there, therefore cannot pass her powers onto any1 except herself thus making her immortal. Now i do beleive ultimicia is rinoa for 2 reasons... first of the white seeds present in the future
Very good points, and I missed the shall we dance and her main weapons in Dissidea, but good catch.
I have always believed they were one in the same since the beginning. And I have never found the link where SE has claimed them to be two different people. You'd think they'd leave that posted. But personally I think they wouldn't say either, both in keeping the mystery as well as giving a nod to both sides as being correct in some way,
Maybe Rinoa's power corrupts her more and more as the years go by. Squall stands by her because he promised to. Finally he's the only one still fighting for her & he gets killed in battle. This sends Rin over the edge until she wants to destroy all human life by bringing on time kompression. Using K's in her speech might go back to Hyne, the original sorcerer and her ancestor. That's how I would write it.
All theories were created intentionally by squaresoft (throughout the game) to fulfill one purpose: to keep what could have been a simple storyline from being forgotten. Millions of dollars and time and thoughts can keep almost anything immortal. A true work of art. ;)
I have an idea there should be another game with a new character called Ultima in an apocalyptical world but because of youtubes lack of words il just keep it short Rinoa and ultima fight the final boss who kills Rinoa and is revealed to be squall who regreted and killed himself Now Rinoa gives her powers to Ultima changing her powers Memories and looks and she moves herself to another dimension making Final Fantasy VIII happen.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. You know, I'm always amazed by how artist can draw people's faces and make them look different. I know where the differences lie but I just don't know how to do that. Anyways, I digress. The point here is Rinoa and Ultimecia look nothing alike. Rinoa has kind of a droopy pair of eyes, while Ultimecia's is kind of slanting and more sharp looking. And I don't think time can change that trait too much.
You never know. I mean, the only reason I don't believe in the "Squall is dead" theory, is because I don't think Squaresoft had the ability to write something that strong. Lol.
But I mean, maybe they intended Rinoa to be Ultimecia, but didn't make it obvious. When they made ff10, It had the same kind of scenario Sin/Jecht. Except, they actually explained it to the player, instead of leaving it a mystery. Who knows. Theres not enough information.
While I noticed some of the similarities you brought up, I NEVER would have made that connection before seeing this. Now, I have to say I'm convinced.
First of all, if Square did in fact deny this theory, that automatically disproves it, second of all half of it makes no sense because of your terrible grammar and the other half makes no sense because it's all just random assumptions. In effect that makes it not even a theory because a theory is something that is able to be tested, which this can't because the evidence given in the game is completely inconclusive
What was that at the end of the credits then because I've heard that Rinoa Saved Squall at the last minute before he died, and another thing said that squall was an illusion at the end
@Shinzoken Well what i really think happened its.. Squall died at the end of the disk 1 when Edea killed him with the ice then..then all started to make sense The entire remaining game time, from the beginning of disc two to the second half of the ending movie, was Squall´s dream
Umm i got a question..they say sorceress cant die if they dont pass their powers to another person..so at the end of the same..they ¨killed¨ultimecia..but she had to pass her powers to someone.. was it Edea?..so the end of the game means the beginning and the beginning the end?
@misskat26 yup, exactly, at the end of the game you see Ulti giving her powers to edea, and during the game, Rinoa takes Edea's powers (and ulti's, at the same) and so the cycle goes on and on
@Shinzoken another thing, if rinoa is in fact ultimecia, why would she kill past self, thus ending her future self? memory loss via GF? or is it a trap, because of time crunch and she wouldn't be effected?
@moyersshred my theory is memory loss, so she in fact doesn't know that she tries to kill herself in the past several time. If she would've succeeded, she would've probably stop to exist because the time loop would've been broken
Squaresoft nor Square Enix have EVER said anything about the Rinoa Equals Ultimecia Theory. The only thing naysayers have is some guide made by a THIRD PARTY company that went bankrupt years ago. Square never addressed, nor denied, the argument.
it would be cool if rinoa was ultimicia it seems like there is so much they could do with that imagine how good the story could have been if they had taken that path.
I think the storyline for FF VIII could have greatly benefited from some serious revision. I find the theories regarding Rinoa and Ultimecia to be much more entertaining than the intended storyline itself! The writers missed so many opportunities to weave a much tighter and complex story.
@leptonsoup337 The story of FF8 was subtle. Nothing was ever directly confirmed and going by the signs (Rinoa dizzy next to Ultimecia during her speech in Edea's body, being 'crucified' on Adel, and Ultimecia's last words during the final fight), it was heavily implied.
@3:05 ----- You could also make that argument between Red Giant + Iron Giant, Catoblepas + Behemoth.
Maybe or maybe not a coincidence, but it's not worth bringing up. These monsters in her castle could simply be evolved forms of their present-day predecessors. She lives many years ahead in the future, so why wouldn't some creatures have evolved in that amount of time (who knows how long, anyway).
@2;30 ---- Castle by the "Promised meeting place".
Note that a CHAIN is leading up to her Castle FROM that spot. And that there are chains all around the Castle leading from her castle to who knows where.
My brain just exploded *u* I have been obsessed with FFVIII since I was like 11 or 12. I love finding more info, fun facts, and theories on this game. Although this is a theory and not proven, you've made some excellent points. Thanks so much :)
You're great, i didn't looked too much at those dissidia lines. And the weapons thing...omg. Well then, you've just unbalanced my mental discussion about this XD
@errant3 She still summons Griever, however it'll have the name that you will have give to the ring, so for exemple, if you name it Anything, the boss will be called Anything
@contevent. This I like makes sense everywhere and though I liked the idea's that spark thoughts of deepest meanings in the ff8 story....its not all quite a happy jigsaw. But I really did enjoy the thoughts it inspires x
Another point is that maybe Ultimecia isn't the one truly controlling the sorceresses. Maybe it is another entity. I'll dub the entity as Bob for now. Bob takes over Rinoa's body, and leads it down the evil path. Rinoa of the future is still possessed and is named Ultimecia.
Ultimecia gives powers to Edea. Edea gives powers to Rinoa. Rinoa forcefully becomes Ultimecia. Out of everyone in the world, could she not have chosen someone other then Edea to pass them on to?
In the game, Selphie said she destroyed a monster and a GF was inside. I don't remember, did she say she gave that GF to Squall or not? She couldn't remember it's name. ( I think this convo happens on a basketball court at her garden ) When Irvine reveals he remembers more because he doesn't use GFs.
Could this be a relation to finding Griever inside of Ultimecia after she died infront of Edea?
this is the first time ive ever heard this arguement and damn its really making me think i think i might be convinced a really good twist to one of the best final fantasys!!!!
Ultimecia is Rinoa, Rinoa isn't Ultimecia. If you think, Squall had PLENTY of close encounters with death throughout the story. He could've died at anyone of those times causeing Rinoa to shift into Evil. But something/one went back to correct the timeline. Plus if Squall was "Keeping his Promise" in Dissidia, why is he FIGHTING Ultimecia instead of being her knight? Besides, Rinoa already KNEW Ellone, why did she need to hunt her.
I don't know in english, but in french it says (translation): "Ultimecia will appear in many generations." If the verb "born" is used in english, it can be read through the "Anakin Skywalker argument" : you could tell the child Anakin that Vador would appear in the future. They are two completely different persons. Plus, nobody in the game has official premonitions. Edea is the only one connected with Ultimecia. I have written a french theory, on ffdream.com / mythes / Ultimecia / Théorie 2.
Damn, all of these intertwining theories are starting to make my head hurt. C'mon Square, make a sequel to this game and clear some shit up! I love this game and would love to visit these characters again. I would even settle for a CGI movie sequel.
Ah, we're never getting a sequel to FFVII, I guess we'll never get sequel to FFVIII. Square only makes sequels to the crappier FFs I guess...
Ok check it out. RUltimecia is Rinoa in the future. Do to being in time compressed without knowing where to find squall. That is why in their world when Rinoa is still good. Squall and Rinoa made a Promise that if she ever fall in that compressed world again... He told her where to find him..... He would be at the spot where they made the promise. Ans so, .... she found him, broke the loop of history and lives on. ))
the theory about tiamat and bahamut is off cuz they are in actuallity two completely different beings. bahamut is the good king of dragons while tiamut is the evil queen (theyre a couple) which is a widely known fact in dragon mythology. another note i like to add is that which u are pointing out wings on rinoa going from white to black but if u watch closely the background isnt actually wings but blurred out places that are getting blurrier with each pass as all of squalls memories get blurrier
Seeing your last argument I was "WOAH! How did I miss that!!"
About the Adel Argument, I'd say it is irreleavant, I prefer the "two ending" theory, wich state that after the time was never compressed (??) at the end, there would have been 2 possibilities.
Rinoa never found Squal as he died alone and, from grief, she slowy turned to Ultimecia.
Squall is revived and they live happily everafter.
Hum... I'm gonna explain why I think that in another comment.
The whole story is about a time loop controled by the iron grip of Ultimecia. Thanks to her unmached power, she control time, and has become, by definition fate itself. She is the architect of all the events of the game, and even before. Everithing that happened is her doing, or a byproduct of her intervention in time.
So everything is fixed, and cannot happen another way, the time loop is forever.
However, she does die at a time, and then, what happens?
I believe the moment she died, Fate was free again from the time loop, and nothing was fixed anymore. Squall is cast out in some kind of limbo as time decompressed and witness he's own past, only to be released when Ultimecia finaly gave up her power (strange coincidence hu?)
Then, time alternative can be born again, and if it end bad, if Rinoa don't find Squall, then it all repeat again.
Until finaly Fate smile to Rinoa who find and Revive Squall.
And Bam, loop broken, end of the game.
Of course it's not an argument, more an hypothesis about why all this stuff happened the way it happened, but it is complex enough to fit in this deep and complex storyline. :P
Theres a fact that you forgot ... in the game the characters say that when they meet for first time they feel something that conect eachother, when quistis thinks that she loves squall but really is a sisters love...thats some of the thinks that i belive that Rinoa cant be Ultimecia cause if she really is Ultimecia when she saw squall for first time she will feel something for squall even if she forget it...Sorry about the bad spelling but I hardly remember how to write in English."mexican guy"
There are SO many reasons I could go into about why Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia, including the fact that this video has A LOT of conjecture that draws upon game mechanics and not actual story line. For one, based on all information we have, Ultimecia lives FAR into the future. We are not given any evidence that Sorceresses are immortal or ageless so Rinoa can't be Ultimecia for that fact alone. I don't have enough space to continue on, but Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia, that's a FACT!
I like this theory. Atleast i would like to believe it, i always thought ultimecia was kinda random and wondered why the hell she could summon griever. After reading about this it does make sense to me, infact i remember wondering if ultimecia could be rinoa on my first play through. I also dont think its so far fetched to think maybe she wants to kill her past self to stop her experiencing the loneliness she has. Either way its an interesting theory :)
You know, before I watched this video, Ultimecia was like the most boring of villains of Final Fantasy, the only good thing about her was the awesome music, and she really was able to not be sexy at all, even with that clothing! Cloud of Darkness was at least cool in Dissidia, Ultimecia seemed just annoying to me. Then I watched this video. I think Ultimecia managed to get into my top 5 Final Fantasy villains list now.
I have one point the Griever: Ulti took Control of Rinoa for quite some time. So this could be the connection between Sqall and Ulti not direct but indirect via Rinoa.
One more fact is that heavy emotional states interfere with the Memory loss so. If joining her past self even if she didn't know it be such a shock or seeing Sqall or hearing his Voice. Something had to stay like with the Orphanage. So I don't belive Ulti is Rinoa but she could be related by blood to Rinoa.
@stormocity you're wrong.. squall isnt dead. if he really is dead then you would explain how he died in the first place, as for rinoa/ultimecia even though i dont believe this shenannigan is that why would ultimecia send squall at some kind of weird dimension at the end of the game and rinoa does whatever she can to find him?
But none of this could have possibly happened based on Squall dying, because if Squall did die, and the rest of the game after disc one is just his dream, then how could it even be real? This means, that where Squall and Rinoa say to meet up, never actually happens...therefore, if Ultimecia is in fact Rinoa, then it's only because Squall dreamed it...so, it's not real. Man...I swear, this FF game is the only one with such a confusing plot with no answers...I wish SE would just clear it up....
i just think she became ultimecia so she could change the past and disc 2-4 was her result. since disc one squall dies, its sorta complicated and hard to explain but if you put this theory and the squall death one together alot comes into play, i personally think she fights squall in the the end of the game so she could live as the current rinoa with squall in their own timeline and fix the mess that happened in the beginning of the game since squall did wake up without a scar in disc 2
@YourAppleJamie Hmm...I like that thought...but how did Squall remember that he got hit with Edea's icicle after waking up in Desert Prison? If Rinoa/Ultimecia changed the past, then Squall never would have even questioned the supposed wound...but, it does seem to add up when you put both the "Rinoa is Ultimecia" and "Squall is dead" theories together...maybe Rinoa wanted to change the past...but, why for Squall, whom she barely knew and barely had an interest? DAMN you, Square Enix!! I love you
@Stormocity hmm that is very true she wasnt interested in him at all but she also wasnt liked by the team in that point in time so maybe she got the blame for that mission and all that but ughhh this game is super confusing haha
@Stormocity I think they would but if that is confirmed that she was ultimecia so much fans would bother too much for a video game explaining how it all happened LOL so i think they would just leave at that in my opinion haha
you dont understand expressions, do you? when someone says "shall we dance?" they mean it in the way to start a battle not a real dance even though they dont. also when ultimecia send squall at somekind of strange world why is it that rinoa is still looking for him... i though u said that rinoa was ultimecia and wanted to kill herself and squall. explain this if you can...
@psyonicking Well, while the expression is usually used before combat as a sarcastic way of saying, "Let's fight", the expression is used by Ultimecia, and is directed at Squall - both characters from FFVIII, which in, Squall was asked to dance by Rinoa. Now, basing Ultimecia's existence off of the theory of her being Rinoa, it all fits together too well. So, according to the theory, Ultimecia is Rinoa; whom asked Squall to dance in the past, which is why she says this in Dissidia...
@psyonicking So, really, Ultimecia was using a play on the words "Shall we dance". Using it as a cue to start the battle, while also slipping in some history of the two characters' home world. If you ask me, it was just SE's way of adding something from FFVIII. There's no significance to the expression...but I understand why you would think that. As for the two theories, "Squall is dead" and "Ultimecia is Rinoa" - there are just too many wholes...we're better off just accepting the story as is.
GF Memory Loss over centuries. Resentment towards SeeD for causing Squalls death. and still not knowing what it was because she was never a SeeD. FF8 Is a subliminal messege on four discs.
There is much forshadowing in the game. Rinoa Suggested that maybe ultimecia lost a loved one. And Squall said Even if the whole world would go against you.
This is probably true because of a certain other FFVIII theory that has been investigated maybe Square wanted this game to be full of un-answered mysteries.
@Clickykid I don't think it's "maybe", they definitely did. So little of the game makes sense after the first disc. As a kid I didn't like it at all, but now this is one of my favorite in the series.
I don't believe that Ultimecia is Rinoa. Rinoa loved Squall and she wouldn't try to kill him. Even if she did have memory loss, I personally believe that the body still remembers, even if the mind forgets. I think the Castle appeared there, because it seems like that is the part of the world they managed to sustain, with their memories. Ultimecia is powerful, so wouldn't it make sense that she could create GF's? and being from the future, she would probably know about the GF's of the past.
@suikoden2010 in fact, if you scan Griever, the text says this: ''In Squall's mind, the strongest GF. Trough Ultimecia's power, continues fighting without vanishing'' so ulti did take it from squall'S mind, but she did it before the final batle, cuz in the fight, when she summons it, the light comes from her, and not from squall
Rinoa: If I fall under Ultimecia’s control again… SeeD will come kill me, right? And the leader of SeeD is you, Squall… Squall’s sword will pierce my heart…… I guess it’s ok if it’s you, Squall. Nobody else. Squall, if that ever happens…
All those theory are really interesting but for me the are null.
Griever is a GF, the most powerful GF, and Ultimecia in the battle say it : I'll summon the most powerfull GF. If Squall has rings, medallions, or Griever in his Gunblade is because he admires that GF cause he exists and the artisans made those accesories based on him.
In Dissidia about the promise refers at the promise about Bartz to return his feather, and the dance could be only a sarcastic word of Ultimecia to begin the batle
It'd make Ultimecia more interesting if she was Rinoa, instead of just some random villainess we care nothing about. Also, Rinoa always seemed to be a bit vulnerable, usually relying on someone else for support (that jerk Seifer, Squall). Time compression would make her the only person in existence and therefore all powerful and invulnerable.
@Shinzoken Nah, I just think after being saved by others so many times it'd be a way for Rinoa to assert control for herself (albeit, in a very extreme and negative way). I think there are various reasons why she would become Ultimecia, most of which are in this video. Regardless, I think it's cool that Ultimecia would be a character we've come to know and care about.
Just a little addition...Going along with the Griever is Squall's spirit theory, could Ultimecia have junctioned him and ended up coming to the idea of achieving time compression to bring him back somehow, and while working towards it slowly forgot the reason behind it due to the GF memory loss (Because doing something on that scale would probably need years of preperation...) leaving her with only the goal, after losing the true reasons that she had started towards it in the first place?
@starwarrule And actually, I just thought of this, if you add the fact that she is the last remaining party member theory and therefore has all of the junctions, she would likely have had all of them junctioned to her. Surely this would also speed up the memory loss exponentially, since the biggest hole in my theory (that I could find off the top of my head) is how fast GF's interfere with their memory, but all of the GF's together...
@starwarrule yup, this is actually what i thought, you're even more precise than me
i think that's after her memory loss that she decided to use time compression to be the only one existing, but i dont think it was the goal in the first place
@Shinzoken You know, I quite like this theory. Final Fantasy 8 has always been my favorite FF game, and the only real problem I had was that Ultimecia never had any kind of real motive. Other than maybe greed. But this adds a lot more depth to the game.
@Shinzoken Maybe you did not think of it,but at the end of Disc 2,after the battle with Edea & Seifer,once both defeated,Edea transfers her sorceress powers to Rinoa,wich means that Rinoa would never become a Sorceress ir it wasn't for Ultimecia(At least that's the way i saw it).
@Shinzoken true also it might true because Rinoa did not show up in Dissidia and Dissidia 012 therefore Rinoa really is Ultimecia if thts not proof enough idk wat is
Also here another question Wat will happen if Ultimecia turns good and choose to redeem herself and fight with Cosmos in Dissidia? will she confess tht shes Rinoa??
@Shinzoken hahaha but if Ultimecia dances the same way as rinoa then it becomes obvious pplus Square Enix may have said tht Rinoa is not Ultimecia did they say why or how is it possible??
add this to your argument: in dissidia All Ultimecia's exclusive weapons are weapons of Rinoa. "Shooting Star" for example is Rinoa's strongest weapon and in Dissidia its Ultimecia's. :) just add that if it means anything. :)
Meaning in time compression when squall DID die she grabbed him and used all of her power of 3 sorceress's to bring him back to life and return to there time. That's my thoery
I'm just going to add this it's called final FANTASY! Which means it's a fantasy(happy ending) also rinoa got all of Edea Adel and Ultimicias powers by the end of the game
i dont see why SE would say RInoa is not ultimecia if its not true. Usually they dont say anything at all bout any theories so gamers can keep wondering.
Woe,great job gathering up all this info! I guess I'm a supporter of this theory too!
However,I think there are some blank points regarding the dissidia game...For example, when she said to Squal "shall we dance" or about their promise, how come she remembered about him? Since she had lost her memories,I mean... maybe in the timeline between ff8 and dissidia, she had a partial memory recovery?
i love this theory, because the idea behind it is brilliant. also, i dont think Rinoa changed from good to evil, but she became lonely, and over hundreds of years alone in her domain, she just went crazy, making her - ultimecia - very human.
i believe in Square here, but DAMN i love that theory.
TheCrystallish 1 day ago
Without saying yes or no to the theory I must say that Tiamath in Ultimecia's Castle is a former guardian force according to scan.
raggarbergman 3 days ago
end of the day its just one big time loop edea says summat about her reciving powers from an injured sorcoress a long time ago which is basically what happens in th end so thn the cycle repeats itself, edea gets powers ulti/rinoa isnt actually dead: Rinoa actually says this : "Even if we do defeat ulti it wont stop her from being born". You can always change ur future. The games events happen squall dies after the game she becomes evil, then the gang in the past come for her time loop again XD
RP88888 4 days ago
I am convinced
Akatsukileader9 5 days ago
cool
Sonic42047 1 week ago
One of your arguments is invalid in that Squall doesn't die at the end. If you wait till after the credits (as you should with EVERY FF game), you will see that he is fine and well.
iamwarwick 1 week ago
@iamwarwick i know that, i didn't mean it like he dies at the end but like that he eventually dies
Shinzoken 1 week ago
its a nice fanfic but false.
still instresting and good points thou...and i could start arguing about it but since i haventh played ff8 for years now i dont think i recall the game well enough to start a proper argument..
noasdsaatana 1 week ago 5
WORST FUCKING FINAL FANTASY GAME EVER
MagatsutheCalamity 2 weeks ago
@MagatsutheCalamity well that's just like your opinion man
Shinzoken 2 weeks ago
@Shinzoken FACT! Just like this theory being crap is fact!
MagatsutheCalamity 2 weeks ago
@MagatsutheCalamity the junction system was good at least ;__;
VayuPurana 3 days ago
@VayuPurana The entire game was crap.
MagatsutheCalamity 2 days ago
@MagatsutheCalamity I don't care for FF8 either but it did have some good things about it ; junction system, overall visual design, amazing music, addictive card game that was useful
now the bad of it, terrible characters, retarded storyline and time consuming draw system =X=
VayuPurana 2 days ago
@VayuPurana No, it was ALL bad.
MagatsutheCalamity 2 days ago
in kingdom hearts squall changed his name to leon because he couldnt save the one he loved......meaning maybe rinoa succumbed to sorcery
smashinace987 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
rinoa is not ulitmecia. its common logic. ultimecia from the future and the main characters are from the present. even if ultimecia is rinoa why would she kill herself? the time compression has nothing to do with it, because if she killed her past self she wouldnt exist in the future.
tartboy13 2 weeks ago
@tartboy13 junctionning GF = memory loss
Griever = GF
Ultimecia doesn't remember that she is Rinoa (IF this theory is true)
Shinzoken 2 weeks ago
Rinoa and Ultimecia simply represent the classic good vs. evil. They contrast in nearly every way, including appearances. The white vs. black wings, red vs. blue, black hair vs. white hair. Ultimecia didn't have a support, so she was tainted and evil. Rinoa did have a support, so she was pure and good. The theme of loneliness and relying on others is laced throughout the whole game, and the two added to it. I think R=U fan speculation is simply looking too deeply into the story, no offense.
krissby 2 weeks ago
Dang! that's very convincing! Good job. I 'm a believer now.
yepdrinker 2 weeks ago
I really like the idea of this, but Rinoa is not Ultimecia this is one of Square-Soft's (SE) fan-wanking same with Squall-Dead theory
Zero4ph 2 weeks ago
Note that Ultimecia's power include the ability to animate Dead object (Statues on the podium on first disc become a living being). She can also call upon things from her mind to make it a certain magic (Apocalypse is derived from her mind).
twusman 3 weeks ago
Second theories about evil from adel transferred to a sorcerer isn't valid either since Edea, which was possesed for a long time, does not exhibit the same behavior
One thing about the griever, Squall and the team confronted them by the help of Ellone's Power.ultimecia take the form of Griever's likeness from Squall's mind,the reason why he takes that from Squall is because he believes that Squall is the Seed destined to kill him, so he took a beast (GF) perceived from his mind.
twusman 3 weeks ago
That's a really interesting theory..
However, i really doubt that it's true..
First of all, I don't think that things in dissidia should be taken that seriously cause it's only side-games... Beside, if Ultimecia is Rinoa, that dance thing wouldn't be a valid reason to say Ultimecia is Rinoa (cause theoretically she would lost her memorie due to junctioning
twusman 3 weeks ago
I think this theory does make sense... where else could Ultimecia have come from? And one hint I've noticed is the name "Ultimecia". It's like they named her that on purpose so it would sound as if the character created her own name after forgetting her original name. (Also, if you apply the Squall is Dead theory alongside this theory, then that means that only in his dream-hallucination does Rinoa become a future evil sorceress.)
DarkRetroFan64 3 weeks ago
edea starts with powers that she gives to rinoa, then ultimica dies goes back to the past to give edea back her origional powers however as ultimicia actually dies in the past she cannot exist in the future therfore leaving edea and rinoa the only one with sorceress powers and as they are no longer evil ultimicia would not be created unless squall started knobing selphie behind rinoas back. ................. Now to get on with my life, fuck it im stickin on FF VIII
TheBootinPiemanFukaz 3 weeks ago
but the only person that could have done this is ellone but as ultimicia is hunting ellone would prob rule that theory out. K Also at the final boss fight true ultimicia starts telling the party some freaky stuff in the middle of the battle, things quite similar to what rinoa tries to get squall to understand about himself especially around the time of the concert for squalls promotation and when their in space. also ellones not present when they storm the castle. and as for the end time loop
TheBootinPiemanFukaz 3 weeks ago
white seeds are edeas seeds thus giving us a good clue that edea is still alive at this this point making it seem that ultimicias reign is not too far into the future from when squall and co create time compression which makes its certainlly possible rinoa is still alive too. 2ndly only 2 sorcesses exsist at this point rinoa and adel and adel future weren't too bright at the start of disc 4. Or maybe some1 else took adels powers when she kicked the bucket
TheBootinPiemanFukaz 3 weeks ago
........ k think i got this. first of all greiver is not squall. GF's are magic created by Doc Odine in esthar as well as w magic b magic etc. now as for ultimicia she wanted to create time compression because she is the only one that can exist there, therefore cannot pass her powers onto any1 except herself thus making her immortal. Now i do beleive ultimicia is rinoa for 2 reasons... first of the white seeds present in the future
TheBootinPiemanFukaz 3 weeks ago
Very good points, and I missed the shall we dance and her main weapons in Dissidea, but good catch.
I have always believed they were one in the same since the beginning. And I have never found the link where SE has claimed them to be two different people. You'd think they'd leave that posted. But personally I think they wouldn't say either, both in keeping the mystery as well as giving a nod to both sides as being correct in some way,
ZhaneAugustine 1 month ago
Maybe Rinoa's power corrupts her more and more as the years go by. Squall stands by her because he promised to. Finally he's the only one still fighting for her & he gets killed in battle. This sends Rin over the edge until she wants to destroy all human life by bringing on time kompression. Using K's in her speech might go back to Hyne, the original sorcerer and her ancestor. That's how I would write it.
SweetUniverse 1 month ago
This doesn't explain Ultimecia's Russian accent ... Time Kompression, Kurse all SeeD.
I love Dissidia, but they didn't do Ulitimecia's voice right. She was meant to have an accent.
DaytimeOperator 1 month ago
All theories were created intentionally by squaresoft (throughout the game) to fulfill one purpose: to keep what could have been a simple storyline from being forgotten. Millions of dollars and time and thoughts can keep almost anything immortal. A true work of art. ;)
PuftPrin 1 month ago
I have an idea there should be another game with a new character called Ultima in an apocalyptical world but because of youtubes lack of words il just keep it short Rinoa and ultima fight the final boss who kills Rinoa and is revealed to be squall who regreted and killed himself Now Rinoa gives her powers to Ultima changing her powers Memories and looks and she moves herself to another dimension making Final Fantasy VIII happen.
grfgtbhh34 1 month ago
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. You know, I'm always amazed by how artist can draw people's faces and make them look different. I know where the differences lie but I just don't know how to do that. Anyways, I digress. The point here is Rinoa and Ultimecia look nothing alike. Rinoa has kind of a droopy pair of eyes, while Ultimecia's is kind of slanting and more sharp looking. And I don't think time can change that trait too much.
Demondragoon5 1 month ago
you guys make some pretty awesome points, and also make it interesting looking deeper into it :)
koko09091000 1 month ago
in the last battle, dance could refer to a battle. also they are 2 different games. just saying,
asdasd9595 1 month ago
@asdasd9595 It's just Ironic they used the word dance. Because of how powerful that word is, when it comes to FF8.
Take a look at one of Zidane's Quotes. He says:
"Theres a place I must return to!" (After you lose)
The recurring theme in FF9 is Zidane going back to Terra:
The main theme song of the game is titled "The place I'll return to someday"
A lot of Terra/Kefka dialogue goes back to it's ff6 roots. I wouldn't rule out Dissidia because it's a different game
Ultimecia = Rinoa
DGrant1010 1 month ago
@DGrant1010 i know its too coincidental to be an unintentional allusion.
like what many people said, ultimecia is rinoa, lost her memory and couldnt recognize squall anymore.
therefore, if she really had forgotten squall, then when she said 'dance' , she wasnt conscious of it.
thats what i think.
asdasd9595 1 month ago
@asdasd9595
You never know. I mean, the only reason I don't believe in the "Squall is dead" theory, is because I don't think Squaresoft had the ability to write something that strong. Lol.
But I mean, maybe they intended Rinoa to be Ultimecia, but didn't make it obvious. When they made ff10, It had the same kind of scenario Sin/Jecht. Except, they actually explained it to the player, instead of leaving it a mystery. Who knows. Theres not enough information.
DGrant1010 1 month ago
@DGrant1010 haha i get what you mean.
if squaresoft decided to leave a mystery behind, then ultimately its up to us players to decide what the story really is
asdasd9595 1 month ago
While I noticed some of the similarities you brought up, I NEVER would have made that connection before seeing this. Now, I have to say I'm convinced.
MrKeyblademaster1992 1 month ago
Since the creators of the game said no then its disproved.. sorry to burst your bubble.
BeastifyHD 2 months ago 9
First of all, if Square did in fact deny this theory, that automatically disproves it, second of all half of it makes no sense because of your terrible grammar and the other half makes no sense because it's all just random assumptions. In effect that makes it not even a theory because a theory is something that is able to be tested, which this can't because the evidence given in the game is completely inconclusive
StainIessChina 2 months ago
Damn, I am totally convinced.
ShinRPGMaker 2 months ago
What was that at the end of the credits then because I've heard that Rinoa Saved Squall at the last minute before he died, and another thing said that squall was an illusion at the end
nintendo64guy100 2 months ago
@Shinzoken Well what i really think happened its.. Squall died at the end of the disk 1 when Edea killed him with the ice then..then all started to make sense The entire remaining game time, from the beginning of disc two to the second half of the ending movie, was Squall´s dream
misskat26 2 months ago
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misskat26 2 months ago
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misskat26 2 months ago
Umm i got a question..they say sorceress cant die if they dont pass their powers to another person..so at the end of the same..they ¨killed¨ultimecia..but she had to pass her powers to someone.. was it Edea?..so the end of the game means the beginning and the beginning the end?
misskat26 2 months ago
@misskat26 yup, exactly, at the end of the game you see Ulti giving her powers to edea, and during the game, Rinoa takes Edea's powers (and ulti's, at the same) and so the cycle goes on and on
Shinzoken 2 months ago
Or..Ultimecia is trying to relive her past via the Time Compression and it backfires...all magic carries risk.
NichiStateum 2 months ago
if Rinoa is in fact Ultimecia.. then what happens to Squall in the future? :O give us a sequel.
moyersshred 2 months ago
@moyersshred my 2 theories are
1) Squall becomes Griever at the moment of his death
2) He dies, and that's what cause Rinoa to become evil after years of sadness and loneliness
Shinzoken 2 months ago
@Shinzoken another thing, if rinoa is in fact ultimecia, why would she kill past self, thus ending her future self? memory loss via GF? or is it a trap, because of time crunch and she wouldn't be effected?
moyersshred 2 months ago
@moyersshred my theory is memory loss, so she in fact doesn't know that she tries to kill herself in the past several time. If she would've succeeded, she would've probably stop to exist because the time loop would've been broken
Shinzoken 2 months ago
@Shinzoken Or maybe she's tired of being in the loop and wants to break out of it...
lovestormbaby 2 months ago
Amazing video, you inspired me to restart VIII.... after quiting it half way through :/ Lol
FinalFantasyVIICC 2 months ago
FF8 is my favorite in the series and I love this theory. In my head, it's canon.
Daggerfall40 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Squaresoft nor Square Enix have EVER said anything about the Rinoa Equals Ultimecia Theory. The only thing naysayers have is some guide made by a THIRD PARTY company that went bankrupt years ago. Square never addressed, nor denied, the argument.
MagatsutheCalamity 2 months ago
Honestly with Final Fantasy any thing is possible. And remember ofthen enough they like to tease their fans
xXRohan16Xx 2 months ago
i believe Ultimecia is Rinoa future Evil self...
XolarDark 2 months ago
it would be cool if rinoa was ultimicia it seems like there is so much they could do with that imagine how good the story could have been if they had taken that path.
venen22 2 months ago
@L3TT3RSNNUM83RS0N1Y English isn't my main language, sorry
Shinzoken 2 months ago
youtube.com/watch?v=9buQpJ4r4_4
anandakrause 2 months ago
I think the storyline for FF VIII could have greatly benefited from some serious revision. I find the theories regarding Rinoa and Ultimecia to be much more entertaining than the intended storyline itself! The writers missed so many opportunities to weave a much tighter and complex story.
leptonsoup337 2 months ago
@leptonsoup337 The story of FF8 was subtle. Nothing was ever directly confirmed and going by the signs (Rinoa dizzy next to Ultimecia during her speech in Edea's body, being 'crucified' on Adel, and Ultimecia's last words during the final fight), it was heavily implied.
MagatsutheCalamity 2 months ago
So that's mean, if Square-Enix make a new Dissidia not 012, Rinoa will be the playable character??
albertremong 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
love.rinoaheartilly . net / succession . php
^ Remove the spaces and check out this site for an excellent argument AGAINST the "Rinoa=Ultimecia" theory.
DanTheMan8819 2 months ago
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DanTheMan8819 2 months ago
@3:05 ----- You could also make that argument between Red Giant + Iron Giant, Catoblepas + Behemoth.
Maybe or maybe not a coincidence, but it's not worth bringing up. These monsters in her castle could simply be evolved forms of their present-day predecessors. She lives many years ahead in the future, so why wouldn't some creatures have evolved in that amount of time (who knows how long, anyway).
DanTheMan8819 2 months ago
@2;30 ---- Castle by the "Promised meeting place".
Note that a CHAIN is leading up to her Castle FROM that spot. And that there are chains all around the Castle leading from her castle to who knows where.
DanTheMan8819 2 months ago
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DanTheMan8819 2 months ago
My brain just exploded *u* I have been obsessed with FFVIII since I was like 11 or 12. I love finding more info, fun facts, and theories on this game. Although this is a theory and not proven, you've made some excellent points. Thanks so much :)
taylortea06 3 months ago
You're great, i didn't looked too much at those dissidia lines. And the weapons thing...omg. Well then, you've just unbalanced my mental discussion about this XD
Saen1830 3 months ago
i guess a good proof would be play the game and change the name griever, and then see what ultimecia will summon at the end.
errant3 3 months ago
@errant3 She still summons Griever, however it'll have the name that you will have give to the ring, so for exemple, if you name it Anything, the boss will be called Anything
Shinzoken 3 months ago
@contevent. This I like makes sense everywhere and though I liked the idea's that spark thoughts of deepest meanings in the ff8 story....its not all quite a happy jigsaw. But I really did enjoy the thoughts it inspires x
unearthlygem 3 months ago
watch (Rinoa - Ultimecia? Impossible)
and youll understand everything
besides the maker of ff8 stated rinoa is not ultimecia
rachet811 3 months ago
Another point is that maybe Ultimecia isn't the one truly controlling the sorceresses. Maybe it is another entity. I'll dub the entity as Bob for now. Bob takes over Rinoa's body, and leads it down the evil path. Rinoa of the future is still possessed and is named Ultimecia.
Ultimecia gives powers to Edea. Edea gives powers to Rinoa. Rinoa forcefully becomes Ultimecia. Out of everyone in the world, could she not have chosen someone other then Edea to pass them on to?
TheGuardianCore 3 months ago
In the game, Selphie said she destroyed a monster and a GF was inside. I don't remember, did she say she gave that GF to Squall or not? She couldn't remember it's name. ( I think this convo happens on a basketball court at her garden ) When Irvine reveals he remembers more because he doesn't use GFs.
Could this be a relation to finding Griever inside of Ultimecia after she died infront of Edea?
TheGuardianCore 3 months ago
seems legit.
MRresievil310 3 months ago
this is the first time ive ever heard this arguement and damn its really making me think i think i might be convinced a really good twist to one of the best final fantasys!!!!
dambers100 3 months ago
Ultimecia is Rinoa, Rinoa isn't Ultimecia. If you think, Squall had PLENTY of close encounters with death throughout the story. He could've died at anyone of those times causeing Rinoa to shift into Evil. But something/one went back to correct the timeline. Plus if Squall was "Keeping his Promise" in Dissidia, why is he FIGHTING Ultimecia instead of being her knight? Besides, Rinoa already KNEW Ellone, why did she need to hunt her.
HairofSteel555 3 months ago
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Zuxilbaja 3 months ago
I don't know in english, but in french it says (translation): "Ultimecia will appear in many generations." If the verb "born" is used in english, it can be read through the "Anakin Skywalker argument" : you could tell the child Anakin that Vador would appear in the future. They are two completely different persons. Plus, nobody in the game has official premonitions. Edea is the only one connected with Ultimecia. I have written a french theory, on ffdream.com / mythes / Ultimecia / Théorie 2.
Zuxilbaja 3 months ago
Damn, all of these intertwining theories are starting to make my head hurt. C'mon Square, make a sequel to this game and clear some shit up! I love this game and would love to visit these characters again. I would even settle for a CGI movie sequel.
Ah, we're never getting a sequel to FFVII, I guess we'll never get sequel to FFVIII. Square only makes sequels to the crappier FFs I guess...
JapaneseJoe101 3 months ago
@JapaneseJoe101 Dirge of Cerberus, Advent Children?
teysa07 3 months ago
Ok check it out. RUltimecia is Rinoa in the future. Do to being in time compressed without knowing where to find squall. That is why in their world when Rinoa is still good. Squall and Rinoa made a Promise that if she ever fall in that compressed world again... He told her where to find him..... He would be at the spot where they made the promise. Ans so, .... she found him, broke the loop of history and lives on. ))
DraculaStylesStudios 4 months ago
the theory about tiamat and bahamut is off cuz they are in actuallity two completely different beings. bahamut is the good king of dragons while tiamut is the evil queen (theyre a couple) which is a widely known fact in dragon mythology. another note i like to add is that which u are pointing out wings on rinoa going from white to black but if u watch closely the background isnt actually wings but blurred out places that are getting blurrier with each pass as all of squalls memories get blurrier
angelgoldennight 4 months ago
I think there's a way to combine 'Squall is dead' and 'Rinoa is Ultimecia'.....
JurySeven 4 months ago
Seeing your last argument I was "WOAH! How did I miss that!!"
About the Adel Argument, I'd say it is irreleavant, I prefer the "two ending" theory, wich state that after the time was never compressed (??) at the end, there would have been 2 possibilities.
Rinoa never found Squal as he died alone and, from grief, she slowy turned to Ultimecia.
Squall is revived and they live happily everafter.
Hum... I'm gonna explain why I think that in another comment.
Contevent 4 months ago
@Contevent Re1.
The whole story is about a time loop controled by the iron grip of Ultimecia. Thanks to her unmached power, she control time, and has become, by definition fate itself. She is the architect of all the events of the game, and even before. Everithing that happened is her doing, or a byproduct of her intervention in time.
So everything is fixed, and cannot happen another way, the time loop is forever.
However, she does die at a time, and then, what happens?
See in next reply
Contevent 4 months ago
@Contevent Re2.
I believe the moment she died, Fate was free again from the time loop, and nothing was fixed anymore. Squall is cast out in some kind of limbo as time decompressed and witness he's own past, only to be released when Ultimecia finaly gave up her power (strange coincidence hu?)
Then, time alternative can be born again, and if it end bad, if Rinoa don't find Squall, then it all repeat again.
And it goes on and on until finally...
Next in last reply :)
Contevent 4 months ago
@Contevent Re3.
Until finaly Fate smile to Rinoa who find and Revive Squall.
And Bam, loop broken, end of the game.
Of course it's not an argument, more an hypothesis about why all this stuff happened the way it happened, but it is complex enough to fit in this deep and complex storyline. :P
Love to all FFVIII lovers.
Contevent 4 months ago
Theres a fact that you forgot ... in the game the characters say that when they meet for first time they feel something that conect eachother, when quistis thinks that she loves squall but really is a sisters love...thats some of the thinks that i belive that Rinoa cant be Ultimecia cause if she really is Ultimecia when she saw squall for first time she will feel something for squall even if she forget it...Sorry about the bad spelling but I hardly remember how to write in English."mexican guy"
Edrosification 4 months ago
There are SO many reasons I could go into about why Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia, including the fact that this video has A LOT of conjecture that draws upon game mechanics and not actual story line. For one, based on all information we have, Ultimecia lives FAR into the future. We are not given any evidence that Sorceresses are immortal or ageless so Rinoa can't be Ultimecia for that fact alone. I don't have enough space to continue on, but Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia, that's a FACT!
LordSaber 4 months ago
I like this theory. Atleast i would like to believe it, i always thought ultimecia was kinda random and wondered why the hell she could summon griever. After reading about this it does make sense to me, infact i remember wondering if ultimecia could be rinoa on my first play through. I also dont think its so far fetched to think maybe she wants to kill her past self to stop her experiencing the loneliness she has. Either way its an interesting theory :)
bamboo999 4 months ago
ALSO squall DID NOT FUCKING DIE DIPSHIT
theuglyhairmonster2 4 months ago
impossible because rinoa would be dead too.
theuglyhairmonster2 4 months ago
The only thing i disagree with so far is the Bahamut - Tiamat theory. x3
MellifluousDawn 4 months ago
maybe all of this speculations will be answered in the next squareenix's aniversary... FF8 "orphan" children....... (not advent)... wink!!!
Daughterty 4 months ago
Ultimicia could be Squall and Rinoa's kid*Shrugs*
XiahouDun1225 5 months ago 15
You know, before I watched this video, Ultimecia was like the most boring of villains of Final Fantasy, the only good thing about her was the awesome music, and she really was able to not be sexy at all, even with that clothing! Cloud of Darkness was at least cool in Dissidia, Ultimecia seemed just annoying to me. Then I watched this video. I think Ultimecia managed to get into my top 5 Final Fantasy villains list now.
MeingroessterFan 5 months ago
Oh my GOD!!
This was already my favourite final fantasy! I completely agree with all the evidence!
Now I got shivers!!
cilversky99 5 months ago
Time compression probably made things a little too more difficult to fix things in the ffviii verse.
Passwordcom 5 months ago
I have one point the Griever: Ulti took Control of Rinoa for quite some time. So this could be the connection between Sqall and Ulti not direct but indirect via Rinoa.
One more fact is that heavy emotional states interfere with the Memory loss so. If joining her past self even if she didn't know it be such a shock or seeing Sqall or hearing his Voice. Something had to stay like with the Orphanage. So I don't belive Ulti is Rinoa but she could be related by blood to Rinoa.
Findas88 5 months ago
@stormocity you're wrong.. squall isnt dead. if he really is dead then you would explain how he died in the first place, as for rinoa/ultimecia even though i dont believe this shenannigan is that why would ultimecia send squall at some kind of weird dimension at the end of the game and rinoa does whatever she can to find him?
psyonicking 6 months ago
But none of this could have possibly happened based on Squall dying, because if Squall did die, and the rest of the game after disc one is just his dream, then how could it even be real? This means, that where Squall and Rinoa say to meet up, never actually happens...therefore, if Ultimecia is in fact Rinoa, then it's only because Squall dreamed it...so, it's not real. Man...I swear, this FF game is the only one with such a confusing plot with no answers...I wish SE would just clear it up....
Stormocity 6 months ago
i just think she became ultimecia so she could change the past and disc 2-4 was her result. since disc one squall dies, its sorta complicated and hard to explain but if you put this theory and the squall death one together alot comes into play, i personally think she fights squall in the the end of the game so she could live as the current rinoa with squall in their own timeline and fix the mess that happened in the beginning of the game since squall did wake up without a scar in disc 2
YourAppleJamie 6 months ago
@YourAppleJamie Hmm...I like that thought...but how did Squall remember that he got hit with Edea's icicle after waking up in Desert Prison? If Rinoa/Ultimecia changed the past, then Squall never would have even questioned the supposed wound...but, it does seem to add up when you put both the "Rinoa is Ultimecia" and "Squall is dead" theories together...maybe Rinoa wanted to change the past...but, why for Squall, whom she barely knew and barely had an interest? DAMN you, Square Enix!! I love you
Stormocity 6 months ago
it c
YourAppleJamie 6 months ago
@Stormocity hmm that is very true she wasnt interested in him at all but she also wasnt liked by the team in that point in time so maybe she got the blame for that mission and all that but ughhh this game is super confusing haha
YourAppleJamie 6 months ago
@YourAppleJamie Seriously! I know how you feel...I wish that Square Enix would just TELL US!!! URGGHHH!!!!!
Stormocity 6 months ago
@Stormocity I think they would but if that is confirmed that she was ultimecia so much fans would bother too much for a video game explaining how it all happened LOL so i think they would just leave at that in my opinion haha
YourAppleJamie 6 months ago
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YourAppleJamie 6 months ago
you dont understand expressions, do you? when someone says "shall we dance?" they mean it in the way to start a battle not a real dance even though they dont. also when ultimecia send squall at somekind of strange world why is it that rinoa is still looking for him... i though u said that rinoa was ultimecia and wanted to kill herself and squall. explain this if you can...
psyonicking 6 months ago
@psyonicking Well, while the expression is usually used before combat as a sarcastic way of saying, "Let's fight", the expression is used by Ultimecia, and is directed at Squall - both characters from FFVIII, which in, Squall was asked to dance by Rinoa. Now, basing Ultimecia's existence off of the theory of her being Rinoa, it all fits together too well. So, according to the theory, Ultimecia is Rinoa; whom asked Squall to dance in the past, which is why she says this in Dissidia...
Stormocity 6 months ago
@psyonicking So, really, Ultimecia was using a play on the words "Shall we dance". Using it as a cue to start the battle, while also slipping in some history of the two characters' home world. If you ask me, it was just SE's way of adding something from FFVIII. There's no significance to the expression...but I understand why you would think that. As for the two theories, "Squall is dead" and "Ultimecia is Rinoa" - there are just too many wholes...we're better off just accepting the story as is.
Stormocity 6 months ago
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FuckingPerfectx 7 months ago
Makes sense... Im convinced.
kizuame 7 months ago
GF Memory Loss over centuries. Resentment towards SeeD for causing Squalls death. and still not knowing what it was because she was never a SeeD. FF8 Is a subliminal messege on four discs.
Aniljesix 7 months ago
There is much forshadowing in the game. Rinoa Suggested that maybe ultimecia lost a loved one. And Squall said Even if the whole world would go against you.
No doubt that shes Rinoa.
Aniljesix 7 months ago
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FuckingPerfectx 7 months ago
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FuckingPerfectx 7 months ago
This is probably true because of a certain other FFVIII theory that has been investigated maybe Square wanted this game to be full of un-answered mysteries.
Clickykid 7 months ago
@Clickykid I don't think it's "maybe", they definitely did. So little of the game makes sense after the first disc. As a kid I didn't like it at all, but now this is one of my favorite in the series.
MessyPaint 7 months ago
I don't believe that Ultimecia is Rinoa. Rinoa loved Squall and she wouldn't try to kill him. Even if she did have memory loss, I personally believe that the body still remembers, even if the mind forgets. I think the Castle appeared there, because it seems like that is the part of the world they managed to sustain, with their memories. Ultimecia is powerful, so wouldn't it make sense that she could create GF's? and being from the future, she would probably know about the GF's of the past.
suikoden2010 7 months ago
@suikoden2010 in fact, if you scan Griever, the text says this: ''In Squall's mind, the strongest GF. Trough Ultimecia's power, continues fighting without vanishing'' so ulti did take it from squall'S mind, but she did it before the final batle, cuz in the fight, when she summons it, the light comes from her, and not from squall
Shinzoken 7 months ago
@Shinzoken Do you think the light from her, is perhaps her powers giving form to the GF knowing that to Squall, Griever is the most powerful GF?
suikoden2010 7 months ago
@Shinzoken i say she did draw him from squall's mind.
but i also think in some sort of parallel that rinoa is ultimecia.
as much as i love that love could never be broken.....then again, come on it is a game. strong evidence on both sides......
wingy158 7 months ago
wow i liked it!
Angel13691 7 months ago
Rinoa: If I fall under Ultimecia’s control again… SeeD will come kill me, right? And the leader of SeeD is you, Squall… Squall’s sword will pierce my heart…… I guess it’s ok if it’s you, Squall. Nobody else. Squall, if that ever happens…
xXxRadicalDreamerxXx 8 months ago in playlist final fantasy
All those theory are really interesting but for me the are null.
Griever is a GF, the most powerful GF, and Ultimecia in the battle say it : I'll summon the most powerfull GF. If Squall has rings, medallions, or Griever in his Gunblade is because he admires that GF cause he exists and the artisans made those accesories based on him.
In Dissidia about the promise refers at the promise about Bartz to return his feather, and the dance could be only a sarcastic word of Ultimecia to begin the batle
S0nicerizo 8 months ago
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FuckingPerfectx 8 months ago
Everything you said before the Dissidia part was like whaaaat. You got me on that last part lol
fkinbetch 10 months ago
@fkinbetch thanks?XD
Shinzoken 10 months ago
It'd make Ultimecia more interesting if she was Rinoa, instead of just some random villainess we care nothing about. Also, Rinoa always seemed to be a bit vulnerable, usually relying on someone else for support (that jerk Seifer, Squall). Time compression would make her the only person in existence and therefore all powerful and invulnerable.
arm8200 10 months ago 8
@arm8200 yup, that's a really good point
and therefore, vulnerable people are more likely to become evil
Shinzoken 10 months ago
@Shinzoken Nah, I just think after being saved by others so many times it'd be a way for Rinoa to assert control for herself (albeit, in a very extreme and negative way). I think there are various reasons why she would become Ultimecia, most of which are in this video. Regardless, I think it's cool that Ultimecia would be a character we've come to know and care about.
arm8200 10 months ago
Just a little addition...Going along with the Griever is Squall's spirit theory, could Ultimecia have junctioned him and ended up coming to the idea of achieving time compression to bring him back somehow, and while working towards it slowly forgot the reason behind it due to the GF memory loss (Because doing something on that scale would probably need years of preperation...) leaving her with only the goal, after losing the true reasons that she had started towards it in the first place?
starwarrule 10 months ago
@starwarrule And actually, I just thought of this, if you add the fact that she is the last remaining party member theory and therefore has all of the junctions, she would likely have had all of them junctioned to her. Surely this would also speed up the memory loss exponentially, since the biggest hole in my theory (that I could find off the top of my head) is how fast GF's interfere with their memory, but all of the GF's together...
starwarrule 10 months ago
@starwarrule yup, this is actually what i thought, you're even more precise than me
i think that's after her memory loss that she decided to use time compression to be the only one existing, but i dont think it was the goal in the first place
Shinzoken 10 months ago
@Shinzoken You know, I quite like this theory. Final Fantasy 8 has always been my favorite FF game, and the only real problem I had was that Ultimecia never had any kind of real motive. Other than maybe greed. But this adds a lot more depth to the game.
starwarrule 10 months ago
@Shinzoken Maybe you did not think of it,but at the end of Disc 2,after the battle with Edea & Seifer,once both defeated,Edea transfers her sorceress powers to Rinoa,wich means that Rinoa would never become a Sorceress ir it wasn't for Ultimecia(At least that's the way i saw it).
Patrollerable 10 months ago
@Patrollerable no i knew it,and this is why the story of ff8 is a cycle
Ultimecia is defeated and gives her power to Edea, which will transfer them to rinoa, which will become ultimecia, and it starts over and over
Shinzoken 10 months ago
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FuckingPerfectx 10 months ago
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@Shinzoken true also it might true because Rinoa did not show up in Dissidia and Dissidia 012 therefore Rinoa really is Ultimecia if thts not proof enough idk wat is
Also here another question Wat will happen if Ultimecia turns good and choose to redeem herself and fight with Cosmos in Dissidia? will she confess tht shes Rinoa??
FuckingPerfectx 11 months ago
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FuckingPerfectx 8 months ago
so if Ultimecia said shall we dance wat will they both dance?????
FuckingPerfectx 11 months ago
@FuckingPerfectx i guess they would dance..........
TANGO :D
nah joking :P
Shinzoken 11 months ago
@Shinzoken hahaha but if Ultimecia dances the same way as rinoa then it becomes obvious pplus Square Enix may have said tht Rinoa is not Ultimecia did they say why or how is it possible??
FuckingPerfectx 11 months ago
@FuckingPerfectx square enix did said that rinoa wasn't ultimecia, and guess what, its the main argument of those who dont approve the theory
however, i think they told us she wasn't on purpose
just to keep the mystery around the game
Shinzoken 11 months ago
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FuckingPerfectx 11 months ago
add this to your argument: in dissidia All Ultimecia's exclusive weapons are weapons of Rinoa. "Shooting Star" for example is Rinoa's strongest weapon and in Dissidia its Ultimecia's. :) just add that if it means anything. :)
StillThinkingFilms 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@StillThinkingFilms actually no it dosent did any of you actually play 8? there is a shitload of actual proof that rinoa isint ulti.
RyuKaguya 1 year ago
@StillThinkingFilms i already posted it in annotations :)
but still thx :P
and yes i seriously think it means something XD
Shinzoken 1 year ago
Meaning in time compression when squall DID die she grabbed him and used all of her power of 3 sorceress's to bring him back to life and return to there time. That's my thoery
GhostCatchers0 1 year ago
I'm just going to add this it's called final FANTASY! Which means it's a fantasy(happy ending) also rinoa got all of Edea Adel and Ultimicias powers by the end of the game
GhostCatchers0 1 year ago
Oh my god. She is, SHE IS! WAAHHHH *brain explode, mind blown, etc*
:'(
strawberrycereza 1 year ago
oh my god she is rinoa!
Ultimecia:Shall we dance?
Squall : Yeah...Eye On me.
sos288 1 year ago
i dont see why SE would say RInoa is not ultimecia if its not true. Usually they dont say anything at all bout any theories so gamers can keep wondering.
Miyoangel13 1 year ago
@Miyoangel13 we'll probably never know XD
it's like maaany other ff theories
Shinzoken 1 year ago
Also,can't wait to hear your other theories :D
DreamOfTheRebel 1 year ago
Woe,great job gathering up all this info! I guess I'm a supporter of this theory too!
However,I think there are some blank points regarding the dissidia game...For example, when she said to Squal "shall we dance" or about their promise, how come she remembered about him? Since she had lost her memories,I mean... maybe in the timeline between ff8 and dissidia, she had a partial memory recovery?
DreamOfTheRebel 1 year ago
@DreamOfTheRebel well i don't think Ultimecia remember Squall, i just think Square-enix decided to make an allusion to that theory
and my other video on another FF theory is coming soon
Shinzoken 1 year ago
@Shinzoken wow i think the dissida argument is the strongest one in my opinion. I never played dissidia so i never knew bout that.
Miyoangel13 1 year ago