Psychiatry - How they make a diagnosis

[JLXOutlaw]

Cake, I completely understand your message.

I am curious though, what is your substitution for psychiatry?

You can criticize the system, but how do you plan on fixing it?

As far as I know, there are mental illnesses that need medical treatment.

Therapy alone has been proven UNSUCCESSFUL as far as I know for the majority of sufferers.

I do though, think Psychiatry should shy away from the pharma scene, and definitely lean towards a more therapeutic regiment.

[WickedWitchElphaba]

Psychiatry/Psychology is an emerging science. Diagnostic tests have not yet been invented for this reason and this reason only. But as brain scans become more developed and science learns more and more about the human brain, those tests will become available.

You seem to be forgetting that everything we think, say, and do, has a biological basis in the brain. The brain is a PHYSICAL organ. We humans like to pretend that we are more than the neurons that animate us. We aren't.

[scottyb453]

Psychiatrists are self delusional, arrogant pieces of dog shit. The utter rage i have towards the doctors who drugged me and the entire profession is bad. When i told these scum-bags what these drugs did to me they didn't believe it. I gave them literature on how these drugs can fuck you up and they dismissed it. And what's worse is there are people who have been more messed up than i have been. At a younger age. These pieces of dirt will be brought to justice at some point.

[JLXOutlaw]

@scottyb453 My friend, ease.

You are not mad at the doctors themselves, but the people who fill the coats.

Some people are in no place to be helping others.

If only I could reach inside each one of their minds and plant the seed of morality... if only.

I am sad that they took advantage of you, I would never undermine my patients.

[scottyb453]

@JLXOutlaw I appreciate your sentiment but conciliatory words aren't going to make matters better. 11% of this country over the age of 12 is on anti-depressants which is pure criminal. Psychiatry and its apologists need to be stopped or drastically change the way they do business. Your profession at large is bought and paid for by big pharma. You guys are the psychos putting kids on Seroquel. I've done the research, psychiatry is a sick joke. You wouldn't last two days in my shoes.

[AKSBSU]

@caketheory You seriously have no idea what you're talking about. For your Mathematics Disorder example, I quote: "...mathematics ability (as measured by individually administered standardized tests of mathematical calculation or reasoning) that falls substantially below that expected FOR THE INDIVIDUAL'S CHRONOLOGICAL AGE, MEASURED INTELLIGENCE, AND AGE-APPROPRIATE EDUCATION" (DSM-IV-TR, p. 53). It is certainly NOT simply struggling with math; it's severe deficit compared to IQ and education.

[JLXOutlaw]

@AKSBSU I also disagreed with Cake.

It's funny how worked up he gets over something so real.

Cake, are you really fooled that having a severe intellect disability dismisses a disorder?

It is not about the numbers, at all

It is about how the brain processes complex information, it has to do with the grouping and a perceived way of thinking. If there is such a severe deficiency in the learning process that it impairs the student from progressing any further, you really don't think that's wrong?

[caketheory]

@JLXOutlaw Hi, I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. In the UK compulsory education for kids was only established under Queen Victoria. Before that Feudalism was the mode of production and so "progressing further at school" wasn't required.

So during feudalism riding a horse and using a sword was required to progess, so if somebody wasn't good at horse riding or using a weapon (compared to everybody else) does that mean they had a severe brain deficiency?

[JLXOutlaw]

@caketheory Thank you Cake,

I would say, regardless of how 'idiotic' something may be, if there is an unusual inability to understand and grasp any concept, to the point of repetitive failure... is that not classified as a disability?

A mentally incapacitated child is said to be disabled? Why? What criteria reinforce such a diagnosis?

We would say that the child is disabled because he lacks the ability to properly comprehend certain 'necessities' in generally all aspects.

[JLXOutlaw]

@caketheory Of life. What is the difference between an individual who is fully incapacitated and an individual who is only partially incapacitated. Lets even say, what's the difference between someone who is maybe only a tiny, tiny fraction incapacitated (math disability).

In a learning sense, both are disabilities...

Although it's silly to say a person with a "math disability" is as mentally incapable as a child with full-blown down syndrome, it still proves the point I'd like to make.

[JLXOutlaw]

@caketheory Riding a horse and using a sword seem completely irrelevant to us, but we must put them in their context.

Riding takes a great deal of stamina and motor skills, as does using a sword.

These two specific skills take a great deal of our brain power to do properly.

They are also irrelevant to reading words out loud, or solving complex mathematical equations.

If an individual is not able to ride a horse or learn to sword fight, there must be a reason for it?

Physiological or otherwise.

[caketheory]

@JLXOutlaw Hi, I don't understand why you seem to be so quick at labelling people with a disability.

Going back to the horse analogy, what I'm saying is that somebody who has a disability riding a horse and using a sword effectively could be labelled as "disabled" during the 9th to 15th century. However the same person could be a successful banker in our present environment because using a sword and riding a horse are not required.

[JLXOutlaw]

@caketheory If not physical, what could be the other causes?

If after practice after practice after practice, there is little no improvement, hypothetically, what could we say? Something isn't right

Why is it that some individuals are inclined to succeed in sports? Gifted?

Why is it that some people have a knack for certain things?

Until you can understand that, you can't understand why certain people DON'T have knacks for things, infact some people have the opposite, & we call that a disability

[caketheory]

@JLXOutlaw Part 2. On the other hand if somebody has a disability with maths and the same person were born in Feudal times, they might have been a successful Baron or King as maths wasn't required. So the environment dictates whether or not you have a disability.

What I've been trying to say is change the environment and not the person. We all need different social models to thrive in and this approach is better than labelling people.

[caketheory]

@JLXOutlaw Part 3. Take someone with ADHD. Why should a child be forced to sit still in class by being drugged with Ritalin? Why don't we change their schooling environment and let them be outdoors running around more often? Today somebody with ADHD is labelled with a disability but if they were born in ancient Rome they might have been a successful powerful worrior and society jealous of their strenght. (not me I'm anti war haha).

Capitalism may be your Utopian society but its not for all

[MsLAB24]

I always ask myself who are these psychodiagnostic psychologists really what motivates them to label people as mentally ill.

[kmullican123]

You have likely been exposed to some bad psychiatrists or therapists and have a negatively skewed view. There are many somatic diseases that have no tests to diagnose. One example is fibromyalgia. Does that mean that it doesn't exist? Tell that to the ppl who suffer from it. Psychiatry does look into the environmental factors that can cause a person to develop a mental illness. And just as an example, schizophenic brain scans are vastly different from those of a non-schizophrenic brain scan.

[caketheory]

@kmullican123 Well I'm sure many people with fibromyalgia are told it doesn't exist by their doctor but I think your missing the point. I'm not saying these people are pretending to be ill or its in their imagination.

You used the brain scan scenario for scizophrenia but this is just a hypothesis. The reason its not used as a diagnostic test is because there's conflicting evidence, so some schizophrenics brains are similar to everyone else's. 

[caketheory]

@kmullican123 Also some doctors like Fred Baughman say that psychiatrists like to show brain scans of people who are mentally ill with brain atrophy claiming that this is evidence of disease. However the atrophy was probably caused by long term exposure to medication rather than evidence of a mental illness.

There are so many real diseases like AIDS, leukaemia, cancer, tumour, gonorrhea etc. Why don't you see how they're diagnosed instead of trying to defend psychiatry?

[M1thotyn]

@kmullican123 "schizophenic brain scans are vastly different from those of a non-schizophrenic brain scan." And can also be seen in bonobo monkeys and bipolar patients. How come? Because they are caused by the neuroleptic drugs used to treat it. Google "Nancy andreason drops a bombshell" and read Robert Whitaker's book Anatomy of An Epidemic, and really there's a lot more to find about it too. According to eliot valenstein, the confusion of cause and effect is historically constant in psychiatry

[mralwarrensurfs]

Hi caketheory if I was to guess I would say you have had a bad psychiatrist in the past. I had one too and I don't feel like those drugs work either. I will be very suprised when I come off the drugs as to whether there will be some horrible result that is beyond my control. For some people though I do think that there is some sort of a struggle when they do the same whether this is the placebo effect or real only that person will eventually be able to decide. Read on please...

[babypappa]

6:25 - 6:50 You just admitted that "being crazy" is having a chemical imbalance.

[caketheory]

@babypappa Hi, I'm saying that people are affected by things which change their brain chemistry. So if somebody is overworked and bullied their brain chemicals will probably change but not because of "a disease" but because they were bullied etc. So I would fix the problem by looking at their situation and circumstances where as the psychiatrist would label you with an illness, which is what I'm trying to explain.

[babypappa]

@caketheory Then you ar talking about the Cause, and not the Condition. Having a chemical imbalance might be called a disease/illness/etc. The cause of that disease might be bullying for instance. To treat the "disease" you may use medicine, therapy, or as you suggest social/environmental actions, as the case may be.

[caketheory]

@babypappa If someone is bullied and overworked they don't suddenly catch HIV, cancer, brain tumor, glandular fever, Leukemia etc etc. A disease is one thing and a reaction to your situation is something else. We're not robots, we're people with feelings and emotions.

[babypappa]

@caketheory If someone is exposed to say nickel for a long time, they might develop an allergy. Is that not a disease? And is that not caused by environmental factors? Anyway, arguing over semantics is pointless.

[caketheory]

@babypappa A variety of tests exists to diagnose allergic conditions for example they may look at your blood for the presence and levels of allergen-specific IgE. What medical test is there for biploar, schizophrenia, social anxiety disorder, OCD etc???????????????

[babypappa]

@caketheory To my knowledge there is no biological or chemical test to diagnose any psychiatric condition. That does not mean that psychiatric conditions don't exist. A hundred years ago there probably weren't any tests for allergies. That doesn't mean that people weren't allergic, does it? In the future there may be such tests for psychiatric conditions. Until then we have to rely on verbal examinations and behavior to diagnose them.

[caketheory]

@babypappa I've never heard anything so ridiculous before haha. Psychiatry has been around for over 200 years. Today they have the MRI machine, the CAT scanner and the Positron emission tomography (PET) a nuclear medicine imaging technique which produces a three-dimensional image or picture of functional processes in the body.

If they haven't found any evidence of disease with all these apparatus then the only logical explanation would be........... that there is no disease.

[babypappa]

@caketheory I'm afraid your logic fails. The fact that they haven't found any evidence only means that they haven't found any. Do you really think that medicine and psychiatry have reached their peeks; that they won't develop and evolve further and make new discoveries? That's quite naive.

[caketheory]

@babypappa The problem is that they are already treating people for an illness using powerful medication. In science you start of with a hypothesis, then you do research and test the hypothesis & when you've found the hypothesis to be correct you can begin the treatment stage.

Psychiatry has got it back to front and are now treating people and are looking for evidence to justify their drugs. First they need to find the chemical imbalance or illness before they can do this.

[babypappa]

@caketheory But you yourself said that "people are affected by things which change their brain chemistry", even though there is no scientific proof of this changed brain chemistry.

[caketheory]

@babypappa Yes but I wasn't taking about a disease. I was talking about temporary brain changes that happen all the time. Our brain chemicals are constantly moving around. When you read a book your brain chemicals behave differently to when your doing meditation, listening to music, or doing sport for example. If your frightened and have adrenaline pumping around your body then you'll have more norepinethrine in the brain.

This is different to a disease or permanent "chemical imbalance".

[Annelies19532]

Psychiatry only exists due to the Big Farma, There is No prove of unbalance in the brain what so ever. Yet mllions of people are being drugged. This psychiatry book MSN-V1 however, will tell you that you're have a chemical onbalance (not prove, no evidence) and will drug you with drugs that 100% will harm you very bad. Use you're brain, there is NO prove for chemical unbalance, yet millions of people are getting very harmfull and very addictive drugs.

[WootMapler]

Grab a psychology book and read it from back to cover, it'll answer all your questions.

[Irene211084]

I do get depressed but who doesnt x

I still agree with u that psychiatry is a fraud, because of the stigma & lables given I'm so scared to talk to a psyciatrist because they can forsefully lock me away for as long as they please, electrocute, drug, abuse & labotomize me without my consent. If u give money to these people then u r a wanker cause ur brain damaging people who want to be left alone x

[LarysKaziukonis]

Thanks for voicing the issue, and presenting it so clearly.

[caketheory]

@LarysKaziukonis Thanks for the support.

[hush2088]

Well said, straight from the top, enjoyed your vid really helped me, thanks.

[Ischi71]

By God - he sounds exactly like Ali G.!!!!!!!

[caketheory]

@Ischi71 hahah as long as its not Borat.

[Primalxbeast]

I guess that they work for some people, but they want you to take the damn things wether they work for you or not. No matter how much I tell doctors that all the meds I try make me much worse and suicidal, they still want to try and get me to take the damn things. They may not know how these meds work, but they've messed me up too baddly to not be anything more than placebos.

[Primalxbeast]

There are studies that say that anti-depressents aren't much more effective than placebos, but all the studies I've seen that say that, say that they aren't more effective than placebos in people with mild to moderate depression. They never seem to say they don't work better than placebos for people with severe depression.

[Primalxbeast]

I'm not saying that they know how to treat all mental illnesses, but I've had clinical depression all my life, and I know damn well it's not just environmental. My level of depression has little to do with what's going on in my life. I do think they just make random guesses at what meds they give you, but I know they do have some effect because they damn things make me suicidal as hell.

[Primalxbeast]

Just because mental illnesses are harder to quantify doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means we don't have a very good understanding of how the brain works yet. To say that mental illnesses aren't real is to trivalize the suffering of millions of people. Many mental illnesses are inheritable. How do you inherit something that has no biological cause?

[caketheory]

@Primalxbeast Hi, If we haven't got a good understanding of how the brain works psychiatrists shouldn't be telling people a "chemical imbalace" is causing their problem. And if they don't know, how can they treat it? You say that genes play a part but Dr Joanna Moncrieff says "Decades of increasingly sophisticated technological research has revealed a possible weak genetic predisposition, often much exaggerated by psychiatric commentators who ignore the shortcomings of the main studies."

[circusOFprecision]

@Primalxbeast

You assume mental illness is erroneous brain function. That doesn't even make sense.

[Lindesee]

@Primalxbeast Thanks so much for this comment.

[sun777port]

death to western democracy! psychiatrist are a part of this democracy machine and they treat u like a machine. and even not a smart machine

[tubestick00]

with a good understanding of evolution, it is easy to see why human behaviour is so varied. our behaviour is unique, as are our physical features. so of course these physical and behavioural features once would of determined wether we survived and thrived or struggled and failed, we now live in a world where we dtrive to cure all ill's and live forever, so the weak and genetically inferior multiply exponentially, as they make up the majority of the human population today.

[kaosXC]

@tubestick00 that is quitre Darwinist of you lol!

[Infinitesimalism]

@tubestick00 There is just too much plurality and information (or misinformation) to generalize mankind in that way. The "weak" physically can in many facets be mentally "strong" (employing your duality). And our knowledge and use of information is what allows us to manipulate data and come to new conclusions based upon research. Look at Stephen Hawking for instance. Genetically predisposed to acquire Lou Gehrig's disease yet his research has been at the fore of quantum science.

[tubestick00]

@Infinitesimalism but im not generalising mankind in anyway i am merely stating that we are all different its in our nature to be genetically varied as a species. if we were all exactly the same psychologically or physically we would not be here today. some of these variations are much less suitable for living in our current environment than others. some are very helpful. the bad ones we call illness and give drugs that alter the state of mind in a way that helps these people function in society

[Infinitesimalism]

@tubestick00 I'm glad I went back over your comments to assure I understood you right. I don't believe you have a firm grasp of the survival of the fittest concept because illness isn't a "physical variation" (I don't think you even know what the hell it is you're saying when you typed that, it just sounded good to you so you did).. our predisposal and ability to fight off illness would be the determinant factor in whether certain types of us "die off" more than others. Also it's not genetic....

[tubestick00]

@Infinitesimalism and i dont see what the fact that it possible for a genius to have physical problems, such as lou gehrigs has to do with that concept, i dont even see that hawkings having a disease while being genius is unusual, or rare. the only thing rare about the man is his mind, without that hed just be one of thousands of people with the disease.

[Infinitesimalism]

@tubestick00 You seem to be misinterpreting me and I'll close with this because I don't really have the time or want to discuss back and forth here. Any physical or genetic predisposal, as I believe you referenced as being a Darwinistic mechanism for weeding out those less fit for survival if I'm reading you right, would be the cog piece in the motor of evolution yet clearly it is much harder to define such things in a society where many great people exist with physical or mental shortcomings.

[tubestick00]

@Infinitesimalism jesus christ. you dont get it at all.

[Infinitesimalism]

@tubestick00 What a wonderful counterargument, act indignant and tell the person they "dont get it at all." If you can't explain yourself, don't type anything at all, it makes you look a lot more stupid than you already have.

[tubestick00]

@Infinitesimalism well my answer was short and sweet because you indicated you didnt want to talk back and forth, even though it now appears your keen to do just that.

lets star at the start... what do you think an illness is? our language is complicated, and theword illness is used by the psych community, but i dont believe the difficulties they are describing are really "illnesses". having trouble with maths is a mental illness these days. literally. its in the book. everybodies different

[DawidWarsaw]

Very good video!! You explained it very well! And I can confirm your words, because I have been 11x in psychiatric hospitals, where I have seen great tragedy of incomprehension, inquisition of our times.

Common life problems like sadness or negative character traits, are not illness.

And also it's not good idea to mess with emotions by taking chemical psychoactive drugs... It's not the right way of solving life problems.

Thank you for this video!

[Infinitesimalism]

Isn't it amazing, sir, how in the 21st century and all of these new and marvelous medical tools at our hand we have this field that bases a majority of it's diagnostic methods on circumstantial evidence. But they make a good living for themselves, whoever actually heard of honest and helping another human being. I've been taking psychiatric medicine for the past ten years now and it has done nothing but been a burden to my time and finances. Good riddance to this phony science I'm done with it.

[souldoctor1981]

"Caketheory" answer below Qs plz

1) Do you think what we call "schizophrenia" or psychosis are mental illnesses where someone believes people are after him, inserting thoughts in his head, or hearing voices talking about him , commenting on his every move,?

2) What do you think of the evidence that people with one type of COMT-allele are 10 times more likely to develop schizophrenia in the context of cannabis use, and more likely to become psychotic given environmental stresses anyway?

[souldoctor1981]

5)How would you treat severe depression and florid psychosis?

6)How would you manage post-ictal psychosis?

7)How would you manage pathological substance misuse and addictions and the psychiatric consequences, or who would you have look after such people in society if not psychiatrists?

[souldoctor1981]

7)How would you manage pathological substance misuse and addictions and the psychiatric consequences, or who would you have look after such people in society if not psychiatrists?

8) What sort of doctor would best manage Alzheimers patients with cognitive, behavioural and psychological symptoms of dementia if not Old Age Psychiatrists?

9) What would be your management of treatment-resistant OCD?

Look forward to your replies.

[skirts365]

Degrees in Mental Health disciplines IMMUNIZE the holders from mental illness & disorders. SO we should have no electricians, chemists, software creators, real estate developers, grocers, auto mechanics et al THEN we will have eliminated "CLINICAL MENTAL ILLNESS" & hear the ghost of MATTHEW HOPKINS & HENRICUS INSTITOR raving "mental health!!" "mental health!!"

[picassoui]

Your argument is valid but i have a question for you . So called mental patients are suffering real symptoms ..it may not be what psychiatry says it is ,, but what is it ?

[the7thwreck]

lol...you have ali Gs accent. The brain is mostly unknown....a great organ for a drug company scam.

[MANDEAN28]

The only experts in psychiatry are the patients. Period. the proffessions just push the damage to another level with chemical coshes/ chemical labotomies.

[RoboX319]

How do you respond to excesses or deficiencies of neurotransmitters causing mental illness? It is neuroscience, and has been proven. Psychiatrists can counteract these imbalances with medicine. An excess of serotonin for example, can cause schizophrenia. An imbalance in acetylcholine can cause Alzheimer's as well...

[caketheory]

Neuroscience has become fraudulent ever since the early 1990's.

I've done a video about it called "neuroscience is a fake science" explaining why its a load of rubbish.

[marek0086]

@caketheory~ u talk about these 'made up' mental illnesses..... but who really cares.... let them.... as long as they dont try to MEDICATE people for... say.... "not-so-good-at-maths-"DISORDE­R".

[Infinitesimalism]

@marek0086 Actually, in many instances Psychiatrists have prescribed certain drugs for such trivial symptoms as "malaise" and even to "promote general wellness". Take it from someone who has taken an amalgam of these drugs and had absolutely NO positive outcome as a result of TEN YEARS of dabbling in multiple psychiatric methods. Thanks for taking my time and money, Psychiatrists.

[kaosXC]

@RoboX319 from my understanding, it's and imbalance in dopamine. (?)

[reverendd]

Your discussion on this issue is quite valid. As somebody who has worked in the mental health field for several years, I can attest to the fact that both Psychiatry and Psychology is based upon nothing more than pathologizing human beings--giving labels and recommending or even forcing treatment. It's a vicious cycle and institution that is crippling the world, one person at a time. There is very little scientific basis for these so-called "studies and practices of science."

[caketheory]

Thanks for the support

[caketheory]

If you google "Dr Joanna Moncrieff " she explains how psychiatric journals are sponsored by "big pharma". She's a practising psychiatrist however is prepared to question her profession as she's responsible enough to know that her actions have a big impact on peoples lives.

[caketheory]

If you google "Dr Joanna Moncrieff " she explains how psychiatric journals are sponsored by "big pharma". She's a practising psychiatrist however is prepared to question her profession as she's responsible enough to know that her actions have a big impact on peoples lives.

[caketheory]

Also Prof Irving Kirsch did a study and found no great difference between anti depressants and placebo. He also says drug companies fiddle the statistics and publish only what they want you to see.

[caketheory]

As for the brain scans. Dr Fred Baughman who was a neurologist, say's psychiatrists over exagerate the importance of brain scans. In some cases they lie  and say there are brain abnormalities in people with mental illness when the abnormalities were a direct result from taking powerful psychiatric drugs.

I've also had one or two brain scans done and I've spoken directly with brain surgeons and its all subjective nothing certain.

[DarwynJackson]

No, I think you missed a few classes in medical school. Headaches caused by stress are called stress headaches... Migraines are due to vascular flow in the neural parenchyma. The point remains; without a diagnostic blood test, migraines wouldn't be a disease by your standards... There are no objective measures of migraine pain in the American Journal or Neurology... Perhaps you think neurology is also a fake field?

So now, are you saying you believe in mental illness but not in treatment?

[DarwynJackson]

Is the speaker claiming that mental illness doesn't exist? That would be an absurd claim.... Isn't the variable effect of Psychotropic medication evidence of neurochemical variance among individuals? Or fMRI studies of psych patients?

Of course Diabetes can be diagnosed before confirmatory lab tests are ordered... that's what a clinical diagnosis is. By this ridiculous criteria, migraines also don't exist.

[caketheory]

I'm not saying mental illness doesn't exist, I'm saying these collection of symptoms shouldn't be called an "illness". By calling it an illness people then try to medicate it like a biological illness. As I explain in other video's, mental illness is just people reacting to impossible social situations and things going on in their personal lives.

I can understand why people might think its an illness but this is just a secular belief.

[DarwynJackson]

But your argument makes no sense... You actually refer to social and mental impairment as a set of "symptoms" but then say this shouldn't be an illness? But you agree that "mental illness" exists?

Secondly, you neglect to respond to my comment about migraines having no objective blood test for diagnosis... in fact many disease states can be diagnosed without labs or imaging studies. This criteria is just desperate and demonstrates a lack of understanding for what medical doctors actually do.

[caketheory]

I never said migraines don't exist. I've had a few migraines before as well. Migraines are caused by stress which provokes a biochemical reaction in the body. I explained this in my video "Psychiatry - Patients View Cake Theory". Stress is caused by something in the environment stressing the person out, its not an illness which occurred out of the blue.

[marthawhitehouse]

I don't know what you were diagnosed with but I have a real mental illness. It has to be treated and it does exist. I'm sick of all of this ignorant anti-psychiatry bias. I've seen real suffering from Schizophrenia, Schzoaffective Disorder and Bipolar Disorder and I have seen people, including myself, helped with drugs and therapy.

[caketheory]

Well I have had mental illness before. Mine was so severe that I was given psycho-surgery. Surgery is only given as a very last resort when all other treatments have failed.

All the medication does is tranquilize you and that may have helped you slightly. It hasn't cured you and your still suffering. I on the other hand no longer suffer and know what I'm talking about. You can leave a comment but try and be polite, I'm not here to win an argument, I'm trying to help people understand.

[DarwynJackson]

Sort of like all those diabetics hung up on insulin... they know it won't cure their diabetes. Only stem cells, gene therapy and newly cultured pancreatic beta cells can do that, but insulin tranquilizes the transiently by reducing blood glucose for a short time.

I guess psychiatrists are really just as fraudulent as endocrinologists or nephrologists.

[krlyle1980]

Thank you for this vid cake theory. This explains why psychiatrists are so useless at helping people and actually cause a mass amount of harm. Psychiatrists frame people's emotional problems as biological ones, because it allows them to make money off people's unhappiness by prescribing drugs and at the same time lends their profession credibility as one of the "hard sciences" when in reality there is not much science involved in psychiatry.

[paulyski]

Once again I would highly recommend tossing your DSM IV & reading the book "Nursing Diagnoses in Psychiatric Nursing" This book outlines the ETIOLOGIES of the disorders, meaning how they came about. Then you may understand how foolish a person sounds making assumptions after reading the DSM IV when they dont have the base of education to completely understand it. You will find that you are PARTLY right that nurture is taken into account as well as nature. But that wouldnt help your tirade, huh?

[krlyle1980]

If your views are so self-evident, why is anyone questioning them? Why does psychiatry receive so much criticism? Do you think the coercive aspect of psychiatry has anything to do with it? Or is coercion a myth like forced ECT? Why do you have to convince your own patients that your views have credibility? I'm always happy to have a discussion, but it's unpleasant trying to carry on a conversation with you constantly alluding to how poorly educated, unintelligent, and naive you think I am

[paulyski]

What do you think causes feelings such as joy, anger, sadness? Chemicals. that is why it is referred to as an imbalance. & there are MANY different schools of mental health intermingled, arguing, changeling, validating & discrediting eachother. That & this discussion are all a healthy part of the process of our, as humans trying to fix all the screwups that we have done to ourselfs & eachother. But your views seem to be to abolish the mental health system which would leave only jails & suffering

[krlyle1980]

I think experiences & thoughts cause emotions. If someone close to you dies, you feel sad. Whenever you think about it, you feel sadness again. Some people are unhappy, angry, or whatever for reasons that aren't obvious, even to them. Everything people experience affects them, even if they aren't always aware of it on a concious level. The problem with claiming that emotions are caused by chemicals is that even if you could show that there is a biological change or abnormality associated

[krlyle1980]

contd.

with "sadness", there's still the question of wether this is a cause or an effect of the "sadness". It seems more likely to me that rather than chemicals in the brain causing emotions, it's the other way around, with emotions triggering the chemicals and biological changes in the brain. Since I don't believe there is a "right" way to think or feel, I don't think there is a proper "chemical balance". Psychiatry seems to be the only branch of medicine with such divisive views.

[krlyle1980]

to clarify: I have no problem with people recieving treatment of their own free will. I'm not "against" psychiatry per se but force & coercion are intrinsic to psychiatry. The "mentally ill" have no rights, in practice if not in theory. There is no way to determine someone's "dangerousness". You can't punish someone for their thoughts or what they may or may not do. Holding someone against their will is punishment. You can't support civil liberties and condone psychiatry at the same time.

[krlyle1980]

Someone who is depressed doesn't have a brain disease -- they have strong feelings of sadness or hopelessness brought about by their experiences in life and their personal reactions to those experiences.

I'm not belittling people's emotional problems, but I am saying they don't have anything medically wrong with them. I really don't know how you can claim people are ill just by observing them or being around them. I guess that's the "science" of psychiatry for you.

[caketheory]

If you google "Dr Joanna Moncrieff " she explains how psychiatric journals are sponsored by "big pharma". She's a practising psychiatrist however is prepared to question her profession as she's responsible enough to know that her actions have a big impact on peoples lives.

Also Prof Irving Kirsch did a study and found no great difference between antidepressants and placebo. He also says drug companies fiddle the statistics and only publish what they want you to see.

[paulyski]

By the way, years ago I DID work @ a "care home" full time earning $8.00 an hour. It was a spiritually fulfilling occupation, however It did not pay the bills, so I advanced my career (with absolutely no external financial assistance).

Without my Psychiatric unit we would have People running naked through the streets homeless, not understanding that they have to eat to stop their hunger pains, or that they own a house & 3 cars.

I delve through the trenches of this daiy.

Take your meds!

[caketheory]

Well I'm sure you can pay your bills now your a psychotherapist, nice to know thats why you went in to the profession. I mean I don't see any cures, mental illness is on the increase, but at least you earn more money.

I personally wouldn't do that job unless a substantial amount of people were getting better but any benefit would be PLACEBO like alternative medicine.

[paulyski]

Thats So Shallow!

As a printing pressman I earned $65,000 a year. As a psychotherapist I gross less than $50,000. But in my current occupation I feel much more spiritually fulfilled helping a patient through the darkest point in their life than printing a perfect auto advertisement for G.M. Psychiatrists prescribe meds, NOT Psychotherapists, & yes it IS trial & error. I do however encourage you to take them. &WE DO NOT HEAL YOU. We attempt to GUIDE you to your own recovery through insight.

[paulyski]

As for the care home, (Geriopsychiatric Dementia Unit) I did love it there. I stayed with many consoling them until their deaths, I cried many a tear & cared for them well. But I found that I could help younger adults more, with much more pleasing outcomes than death. And my friend, I am not exactly "rollin' in dough" But the satisfaction that comes from helping to save a life or improve one does make me feel wealthy. It's all about insight, meds just help stabilize.

[caketheory]

Well I think the worse treatment for me would have psychotherapy. I'm so repulsed by any kind of talking therapy that I even did a video on it called "Anti Psychology".

[paulyski]

The DSM-IV can be dangerous in the hands of an untrained individual. The key phrase is "a condition that causes SIGNIFIGANT difficulty in social or ocupational functioning." Examples include being a criminal, not being able to hold a job or get a spouse, not being able to comprehend simple tasks, maladaptive behavior, outragous conduct ect.ect....

Mental illness is real. And we Do take into account external stressors & traumatic events, victimizations ect. ect.

Take your meds.

[caketheory]

Hi, In defence of "GurnSi" you said that the key phrase in the DSM is "a condition that causes SIGNIFIGANT difficulty in social or occupational functioning" like not being able to hold down a job.

To me that sounds like a form a social control rather than an illness. Have you ever worked on the minimum wage for long periods of time?

It's very hard and there's no reward at the end of it, loads of people can't hadle it cus the company saps the life out of you.

[caketheory]

Then people like you sit on the side lines earning loads of money and blame it on an illness rather than social circumstances and the company that destroyed the persons life.

Why don't you go and work in a "Care Home" full time on £6 an hour and when you end up having a breakdown i'll give you medication and send you to a psychotherapist to see how you like it.

[paulyski]

Social circumstances can be quite overwelming, & yes Much mental hardship is caused by socioecomomic / sociopolitical hardships. But should we just leave the acute delirium Pt. who is standing in the middle of a busy intersection naked & mezmorized by the traffic lights there so he can be run over? Or should we throw him in jail because he attacks the police officer who tries to move him? Should I just let my depression Pt.s suicide? Or let my homicidal, paranoid schitzophrenic rot in jail?

[caketheory]

My problem isn't stopping someone from getting run over while their going through a delusion.

My problem is telling that person they have an illness or "chemical imbalance" when it was all caused by their social circumstances. I explain in my video "Psychiatry Patients View - Cake Theory" that we all have different melting points and what the causes are. I can say this as I was one of thoes people standing in a middle of a busy intersection.

[paulyski]

When you were on the milieu didn't you notice the manic patients that couldn't stop talking, went into debt from uncontrolable spending & were trying to seduce everyone else on the unit even though their married? this IS caused (usually) by a chemical imbalance, there may have been a trigger to send them over the edge, but none the less it is destroying their lives. Why not try to help them?

Not to mention the ingenious schitzophrenic who all of a sudden thinks he is the Messiah? They ARE ill.

[caketheory]

If you google "Dr Joanna Moncrieff " she explains how psychiatric journals are sponsored by "big pharma". She's a practising psychiatrist however is prepared to question her profession as she's responsible enough to know that her actions have a big impact on peoples lives.

Also Prof Irving Kirsch did a study and found no great difference between antidepressants and placebo. He also says drug companies fiddle the statistics and only publish what they want you to see.

[paulyski]

Not to mention the alcoholic dementia Patient that drank so much that their Sodium levels & electrolytes are so out of whack that they will never be able to be independent again. This is also a different type of imbalance.

[paulyski]

Continued...

Should I let my anorexic Pt.'s starve to death? Should I let my psychosis Pt. "fly" off the building because he thinks he can? Or let my schitzoeffective Pt. cut off her breasts & bleed to death because her breasts are "evil"? Should I let my grossly disorganized pt. speaking in a word salad wander into the snow to get lost & die because YOU think mental illness is a farce?

I'll give you the fools pardon now because as "they" say... Those who don't know, don't know they don't know.

[GurnSi]

There is extensive research on PubMed showing BIPOLAR is often a cynical fraud+hoax to explain/EXCUSE/justify: vindictive irrational boastful unreasonable selfish vicious unjustified deceitful immoral self-centered vile/evil conduct to get sympathy/drugs/attention/ welfare checks! Advice how to deal with these cheats: RUN! Shun them FOREVER. IMMEDIATELY. It'll save time & grief. You can't "cure" them - they want to be this way. Find someone worthy of your kindness/affection. You've been warned!

[paulyski]

RE: GurnSi's Comment on "extensive research that bi-polar is a fraudulent illness"

You apparently have not seen a patient in bipolar psychosis. Or a sever state of mania.

I knew a geriatric patient who died due to the combination of these conditions causing him to stay awake 19 days until he died of exhaustion. (sleep meds WERE given)

I have had MANY bipolar females THROW THEMSELFS AT ME SEXUALLY due to a hypermanic hypersexual state.

Learn what your talking about before your next tirade.

[krlyle1980]

Just because a person behaves in a way that is unacceptable to you is not "proof" that they have a "mental illness". That's the problem with psychiatrists and people like you who work in the mental health fields. EVERYTHING is a "mental illness" to you. And how do these "illnesses" get discovered? A group of people get into a room and take a vote. That's why anything socially unacceptable is called a "illness" and as soon as it becomes acceptable suddenly its not an "illness" anymore.

[paulyski]

If only you had the capacity to know how nieve you sound.

I work with this every day. Maybe it is normal to you to speak "word salad" & pee on your floor, to each his own, but people who are a damn sight smarter & more experienced than you are the ones in that "room" voting.

[krlyle1980]

Caketheory has done a really good job of responding to your comments, so if you can't see his viewpoints you probably won't see mine either. Your main argument seems to be: "People do things I don't like for reasons I don't understand so they must be drugged and treated against their will. Plus psychiatrists say they are crazy and diseased so of course they must be." Unfortunately psychiatrists have no scientific proof to support this.

I guess that's why they voted homosexuality as a disease.

[krlyle1980]

And there's no need to attack me personally or insult my intelligence because I don't agree with you. Coercive treatment (the hallmark of psychiatry) is morally wrong & a crime against human rights. Imprisoning, drugging, and using ECT on patients against their wishes would be wrong even if they did have a real disease (they don't). It's a moral issue even more than a scientific one. Just because you're doing something to "help" someone, doesn't automatically make it right. contd.

[krlyle1980]

contd. I get the impression that while you claim to help your patients you're also subtly ridiculing towards them. Also, Psychiatry is a business. It's

to their obvious advantage to have as many people be "mentally ill" as possible. If no one were "mentally ill" they would be out of a job, wouldn't they? It's a good thing psychiatrists are so infallible and objective, otherwise I might be worried that all the money and free gifts they receive from the drug companies might unfairly bias them.

[paulyski]

krlyle1980;

You are getting the terms DISEASE & DISORDER mixed up. The fact remains that you can only be held against your will if deemed a DANGER TO YOURSELF OR OTHERS. Also in America there is no longer FORCED ECT. And these arguments are not uneque, I discuss this almost on a daily bases with Pt.s likeminded with yourself without patronizing them. Also I DO see your viewpoint. My real life daily experience however makes them imposible to accept as fact. As for financial motivation,--Contd

[krlyle1980]

I used the term "disease" in the broader sense as it applies to to any condition that causes extreme pain, dysfunction, distress, social problems , etc.

re finance: People who staff these facilities don't work for free. Psychiatry deals with the socially marginalized. In the past: slaves, women, Jews, and homosexuals. Present: the elderly, the homeless, and people who are unwanted by their families & society. It's social control. People with wealth, power, and education aren't as vulnerable

[krlyle1980]

re forced ECT: With all due respect, how can you claim there is no longer forced ECT in the US?

The section on Involuntary ECT in the ECT Wikipedia article has a very recent (2009) example. It plainly states: "an American citizen is currently being forced to undergo ECT against his will, even though his life is not in danger."

People declared "mentally ill" have fewer rights than criminals. I'm not sure why you think forced ECT doesn't occur? Maybe it just doesn't occur "in your world"?

[paulyski]

In my unit, & by my understanding of the law it is not legal to force ECT on patients. I am quite familiar with what goes on at my unit & I guarantee you, even if a Psychiatrist strongly recommends ECT (Which some do at times when suicide seems likely) even if the Pt. is on a hold, We CAN NOT FORCE ECT. Where is this citizen being forced to undergo ECT in the U.S.? Have you verified the facts? Anyone can post on Wikipedia & ANYONE does.

[krlyle1980]

re forced ECT: Of course, Wikipedia is unreliable. However it's a good starting point for quick general info. Personally I didn't have any doubt that forced ECT took place because I've seen reports on the local news about cases in my area and I'd read about it in the context of human rights. It's not really a secret or anything. You may support or oppose forced ECT but I don't think many people would actually try and claim that it doesn't occur. The law contains loopholes that allow it.

[caketheory]

Thanks for your support by leaving comments, its much appreciated.

[krlyle1980]

Hello, no problem. People who can think a bit critically should support each other. Thanks again for making these videos.

[krlyle1980]

The man's name is Raymond Sandford. He's located in Minnesota and the City Pages ran a front page article on him. A quote from the article: "Neither the American Psychiatric Association nor activist groups have estimates on how many Americans undergo forced ECT annually, but there were 41 cases in Hennepin County last year."

[paulyski]

Continued,

As for financial motivations, Most patients that are on holds do not have insurance, so the hospital LOSES ridiculous amounts of money treating them, But there are laws that state that if a patient comes through the E.R. they must be treated. And we don't force meds unless there is no other option.

I'm sorry if you feel that you had a bad experience. But if you were in my world you would most likely think differently.

[paulyski]

Instead of assuming that you know the definitions of different diagnoses do some research into the suspected etiologies of the disorders of which you speak.

Also the scientific process to determine the causes would be highly unethical as that would require raising many children with abuse or neglect by scientists simply for research purposes. Is that what you would like to see?

[krlyle1980]

I'm aware abuse & neglect can lead to emotional problems. You're the one claiming that people are "ill" and that they have a "chemical imbalance". These are your words, not mine. There's no scientific or medical proof that confirms this. It's a hypothesis not a fact. A text stating that a chemical imbalance may be involved as a possible etiology of a mental illness doesn't make it a fact. It doesn't outline ETIOLOGIES but POSSIBLE ETIOLOGIES, meaning they may or may not be true or actual

[paulyski]

If not for Privacy laws I would love to give you some detailed examples of Pt. studies however that would betray the trust of my patients.

[paulyski]

GurnSi's comment actually describes Borderline & other Axis 2 personality disorders.

[medmatic]

Please go to Yahoo and type in "Horrible Truth About Psychiatric Drugs" to see a research paper exposing these drugs. Also so the search "Documented Proof Psychiatric Drugs Shorten Lifespan". Be sure to include the quotes. You will learn information no psychiatrist will tell you. These drugs destroy fertility and libido and cause impotence and extream disphoria and obesity. The promote suicide and violence not prevent it.

[caketheory]

Ref- StarWF2. Well the first thing I would do to improve things is to stop telling the public that they have a biological disease. At the moment they think they have a real disease and this is stopping the person from trying to figure out what happened. Then I would try an educate them on how the body responds to stress and how how we all react differently to different things. I did go over some of the points in my other vids.

[StarWF2]

I gave your video a good mark but a solution must be given. It is demanded.

Medications can sometimes be better than placebos for mild psychiatric disorder.

What more can you ask for?

Now, if you talk of more severe psychiatric disorder, then obviously the answers will be found soon enough.

[lilwhsthug]

meditation. It's been practiced for thousand of years and its ridiculous that more americans dont do it. Its simple, has nothing to do with religion, and when accomplished can be more successful than any psychiatric medication and its safe. Medication should be like crutches when managing your mental states, temporary until you can gain complete control of your thoughts

[Faridellion]

Great video, you tell em man! These cases need to be heard.

[caketheory]

Its people reacting to an impossible social situation.

[caketheory]

Also the whole field of mental health is a joke. I mean you've got one doctor claiming that genetics plays a role in mental illness. But then Dr Petronis from "NARSAD" says he's done a case study of 100 identical twins and only one of the 2 develops mental illness and there's no genetic link. One doctor says its the wernicks area of the brain, another its the cortex, another says its the serotonin or dopamine level etc. And the reason is because its not a biological illness.

[caketheory]

Ref Parmasteve. To give a diagnosis on the basis of a psychological test is a joke. Are you saying that Mathematics Disorder is a real disease? If it is then why can't we include French disorder? 

Also I won't leave this area to the "experts" because they are all charlatans. They think they are helping but there doing more damage then good.

[pharmasteve]

I cringed with each misinformed, inaccurate sentence of your spiel. Physical & psychiatric illnesses are both equally as worthy of funding. Think of how many millions of people have been diagnosed and treated by the mental health services.. and are now leading (more) functional lives. To say that diagnostic pathological tests and parameters have no basis in its diagnosis is quite clearly nonsensical. Leave this area to the experts, and DONT discourage the mentally ill from seeking help!

[pharmasteve]

There clearly are individuals who have been misdiagnosed and mistreated by 'the system', but that has nothing to do with the tmode of diagnosis, but the

[pharmasteve]

practitioners who 'overtreat' individuals with psychiatric medication, either through pressure from the drugs companies or other influencing organisations.

[000twood]

Also we must consider that the DSM is bias because it was created by men, so it is made from a man's point of view. Just a little tid-bit

[caketheory]

Hi, I forgot to mention in my vid that the reason there's no biological test for mental illness is because none of the mental illnesses in the DSM are discovered in the cadaver (body when your dead) they are all voted for my a group of psychiatrists in the DSM committee. How can you expect to find a biological cause for a disease when you just voted for its existence?

[paulyski]

RE: No proof of mental illness post-mortem

Not true, Many conditions such as frontal lobe trauma (which affects impulsivity, & behavior), Alzheimers (where the brain has actually shrunk), lewybody, vascular dementia(caused by anurisims) are found post-mortem.

Many other conditions display very spicific brain activity deviating from what we consider "normal". Even if its someone cutting themselfs for attention (boarderline) that is not normal & they could bennefit form attention before suicide.

[caketheory]

Well whats happened in recent years is that psychiatry is hijacking neurological illnesses and trying to amalgamate the two. I agree that Alzheimers and Dementia might be neurological illnesses, but in my video I was refering to Bipolar, anorexia, self harm, boderline personality etc etc. None of these can be found at autopsy.

Oh and do you think "mathematics disorder" is an illness?

[paulyski]

RE: Mathmatics Disorder...

Yes, if a person lacks the ability to comprehend simple equations & this is impeading on their happiness, Yes I WOULD say that is a disorder. Let me repeat myself, The DSM IV is not in any way designed for the layperson to self-diagnose. It is simply a guide. EVERYONE has varying levels of traits relating to the AXIS 1,2&3 disorders. It is the level that denotes dysfunction. & the etiology of borderline is thought to be caused by the childhood. meds just help.

[psychetruth]

Good Video! :)