Solar Tower Spain

[YosupMofo]

Total Economic Failure. Cheaper to hire PhD's running on a treadmill per KWh.

[Olengher]

@YosupMofo You can say same about an electric dam but its classic good investment.11 MW is about 2000 euros on hour.I suspect it takes 20-30 years to get money back.A good investment from goverment for your children.Btw, i notice youre american, hows the war going?I heard you won and you can now spend on other shit.

[YosupMofo]

@Olengher You may not have noticed, but this particular facility is operating in bankruptcy, requiring government subsidy--from Spain, a country going bankrupt, as well. Solar may someday become cost effective but it isn't now. Btw, I notice you're not American, how's your war going? I heard you won and now you can spend on other spoor. May I suggest you now go Occupy Somewhere and be happy.

[Olengher]

@YosupMofo No i havent noticed, im glad you did.Please show me where you got your info.And Spain is not bankrupt, EU countries are pressured to keep the Euro high.Spain is less indebt as percent of GDP than US.That is a valid investmen.Solar didnt reach financial feasability to compete with subprime lending plus bailout and get direct investment from banks but that doesent mean solar is not good investment.

[Olengher]

@YosupMofo also people say bankrupt this, bankrupt that but euro climbed from half a dollar to 1.2 dollars that is a lot of pressure on countries like Spain, while US is allowed to go down, pretty unfair.

[rickcain2320]

The light is so intense you can actually see the beams. You have to wear special glasses when working around the collector array unless you want to go blind.

[vergean]

I agree that geothermia is the real future for energy production.

Why it is not promoted more is a bit of a mistery!?

[MillyVanillification]

You need lots of maintenance and Water! And wait 'til a Tornado hits it :) Such projects are proof that mankind is deluded, inefficient and always on the wrong track.

[Mijudasa]

@MillyVanillification There arent any tornado here... i live near that tower (seville)

[MillyVanillification]

This is typical human error.

If one wants to harvest energy, why is everyone looking up into the air? Look down to the ground! There is more energy down there than the sun is emitting on the earths surface! 10.000 times the worldwide human energy demand per year! Geothermal energy is EVERYWHERE and weather-independent. This towers are just build to fail!

[Brettah31]

@MillyVanillification It'll take all solutions. One thing we should have learned from fossil fuels is not to put all of our eggs in one basket.

[jukio02]

america needs to build about 100 of these actually more like 5000 of them

[squirrelcommander]

Solar efficiency :D

[hotpack00]

how much water are they using to clean those mirrors? I think that they need mirrors that don't require any cleaning or else clean themselves.

[MuNkaPOtaMuS]

@hotpack00

It hardly matters how much water is used to clean the mirrors, the solar array can easily power the water filtration systems needed to produce remarkably clean water.

As an aside, there's also a few of these solar plants in the US.

There are "greenhouse" issues during the production of almost all of the materials used in the construction, however the fuel savings well offset it compared to coal and NG.

[Brettah31]

@MuNkaPOtaMuS lol, doesn't matter how much, does it? Surely there is a quantity of water usage at which the plant is using all generated power to purify/produce the water required for cleaning? xD

[chateytung]

try to imagine, if we can cover 1/3 of our sea with solar panel, we can prevent or reduce f3 tornado, big storm and global warming. and i believe we don't need fosil fuel anymore, I just waited who will going to start it.

[Charlesincharge42]

The solar chimney can operate AT NIGHT, as the ground is heated and that heat is used at night.

The Green Tower people have designed enhancements to this effect that allows their tower to run at 89% at night, with 6 DAYS reserve, no plumbing needed.

2/3 of the greenhouse area is suitable for farming with about a 170% increase in crop output.

It could be a housing co-op, with about 3400 shareholders sharing the costs and profits. Who needs big investors? Same price as a coal fired plant.

[beancube2010]

I guess they can use this to create steam to drive a jet turbine and push some electric generators as well.

[toddrileyx]

they stole this from a james bond film. haha

[puncheex]

I was a part of building such a power station in 1978, at Daggett, California. It had 1000 heliostats (those mirrors), a steam generator and was rated at 10 megawatts - pretty small, but it was a pilot. It was built during Carter's solar energy initiatives by Martin Marietta Aerospace, who had a plant in Pueblo, CO for the heliostats. Then Reagan killed all green power programs. Martin closed the Pueblo plant and got out of the business. ...

[puncheex]

... PG&E ran the plant for ten years and then decommissioned it. It's still there; you can see it on google maps at 34.872588,-116.834214.

[Evi1M4chine]

To everyone bringing up the good argument of what happens at night? Well, turns out we have a very nice solution for that: Use the excess electricity of the day, to pump water upwards into a basin, and use turbines to turn it back into electricity at night, when it flows downwards. And for mobile energy, there is hydrogen, and if required, normal batteries.

[datzfast]

@Evi1M4chine at twin peaks colorado they do that, its almost a secret of the power industry because you dont mention it. i have camped there its the only reason i know about it.

[puncheex]

@Evi1M4chine: The ultimate answer there is "the grid". If you can workout a worldwide grid, then you pump power into it and it gets used somewhere where it is needed. If there is too much (!) then you shut down your most expensive capacity, or you hydrolyse water into hydrogen and oxygen. We don't yet have such a grid, though.

[SchoolrejecT]

Yea...pretty much what '321ozzy' said ...

[SchoolrejecT]

..We need these in Texas xD

Its not solar, they have pipes full of water where the mirrors direct the light, thus heating the water to become steam, which turns a turbine creating POWA!!!!

[StratenaMatoha]

What is the performance of this?

[CollinMacRoke]

hundreds of solar mirrors focusing on the same spot in the top of the tower....it's a light collector...it produces 100%clean energy...

[321ozzy]

I just noticed the amount of water being used to clean the panels.

There is no recollection of this water, it might be an option to re-use this water after having treated it.

[sanacore4643]

The plan is to expand this to power all of Seville.

[danndan6]

surely, out of all the solar power variations, ONE alone is the most efficient

[puncheex]

@danndan6: Yes, but that changes with technology and environment. If you don't follow up on lots of appraoches you might not find the optimal.

[fireofenergy]

I seen a cgi with much smaller mirrors (easier for the fantisized slaves to put together). It seems that there would then be less wind resistence and less support structure needed, smaller motors, ect. I forgot the name of the company but it's under "solar thermal".

Perhaps Spains version will last longer...

[mitchelitis12]

you can also save gas money by mixing a small bit od acetone in with your gas..... i know i'm young, but i'm still a chemist

[SlickManChoux]

African countries should do the same they can even sale energy to other countries.

[oilhammer04]

They would need infrastructure.

[GrapeNetworks]

Very nice video.

[RedDaVincy]

The solar panels... they're staring at us all, expectantly. We're to produce their children in some kind of diabolical human enslavement fantasy----

Kids, don't watch "THE MATRIX".

[lokilokibar]

those aren't solar panels they are mirrors...

[Thomson1929]

Prove it. And use proper grammar.

[01DINGUS10]

We don't have to prove it. It's a well known fact you Idiot. The mirrors focus the light on solar panels in the tower. It is much more efficient that way. Do your research before criticizing people.

[Thomson1929]

That's not criticism you Idiot. You could have just answered me like a decent human being but you're obviously just a douche.

[LMuratalla]

The mirrors are not focusing on solar panels they are focusing on the structure to heat it thus generating the heat for a thermodynamic cycle to take place.

[321ozzy]

LMuratalla , also check this link, it's about the solar tower in Spain.

[diakakism]

can somebody ask me this

what water container can stand that high temperature?

Is it more efficient from photo-voltaic?

[JJ24011991]

wtf are u on about

[johandraaisma]

Sure:

what water container can stand that high temperature?

Is it more efficient from photo-voltaic?

You're welcome.

[greyflcn]

It's not water.

It's molten sodium.

Also yes, it's about 30% efficient.

[321ozzy]

diakakism:" can somebody ask me this

what water container can stand that high temperature?

Is it more efficient from photo-voltaic?"

Answer: the temperature is extremely high, the panels melt being exposed to the light/heat of the concentrated beam.

It is used to produce steam which on its turn powers a generator.

[puncheex]

@321ozzy: There are lots of designs. Solar One in Bairstow used a cavity (about 30'x30') lined with boiler pipes with a black finish, through which water was pumped. Essentially the same as a locomotive or power plant boiler. The wtare cooled the pipes, the solar heated teh water to steam in several stages. Nothing earthshaking about this technology; essentially 19th century engineering.

[bellaggio1770]

So about 6 MW ?

[SupremeSoviet]

Thats the Solar2, the Solar 3 and 4 is in contruction and it will be HUGE. The temperatures of the 3 will be 1000ºC and the 4 1500ºC

[Turbomach]

250°C are not enough to run a classical rankine cycle. The typical temperatures of the working fluid (Oil or molten salt, and not water)on the top of the tower are about 500-600°C.

[col1n1234]

The Sun light is directed to the top of the tower, there it heats water up to 250 degrees to make steam and that steam is used to turn a generator to produce electricity for up to 6,000 homes -- with out a whiff of greenhouse gas! Please build more.

[Masaries1234]

@col1n1234 wasn't it 5000 degrees. That's a lot of panels.