In my opinion, the word "samyak" also refers to "true" or "right". So for example Samyak Dhristi would mean seeing the "true" nature of the objects/beings.
@all: even if u make nasty remark bout jainism, it'll still forgive u..dat is wat makes this religion great..it doesnt preach resentment or holding grudges, all it teaches is non-violence and simplicity of thoughts n deeds..
@miladmeah i believe what you wrote is against Jainism, and i believe it is not compassionate. please try to see things from their prospective and with an open mind. Not only is that the Jain way it is the right way... Jai Jinendra
No! Jainism does not believe in caste system. Untouchability is completely out of question, as in Jainism not only the humans are treated equally, but all the living beings (plants, animals, insects) are considered as souls. And every soul is believed to have ability to achieve godhood! So we have equal love and compassion for "All Living Beings".
@anuja0304 so what your saying is every ant and bee in a hive has a soul, and every individual ant and bee in a hive can get to godhood? this is what they believe...?
Yes! every living being has a soul. And soul can achieve 'Moksha'. There is a proper way to achieve moksha. The soul when in form of ant or bee or any other form can not achieve moksha. It can only be achieved when soul is in human form.
Jainism has rebirth and karma concept in its basics. We try not to harm any soul as they can attain human form and get moksha too, as we can. And additionally 'I', the soul, that is residing right now in human form could have been a ant, elephant or what not in previous birth.
@shakeNspray theres only one god the vedas upanishads its in their brahman that is the almighty god just like how guru gobind singh ji the 10th guru of sikhism says god has no shape colour relgion just like how sikhism says god never comes in human form god has no enemys just like how spinoiza and
@shakeNspray sikhism says theres only one god that is brahman that is allah waheguru almighty god no one can make a picture of god lord shiva lord vishnu lord brahma all the pagan dietys the moon the sun egyptian dietys some or all of them
probaly by know became the same as god became one with god i dont know if they did they were all
@shakeNspray made by that one god brahman everything was made by that one god brahman allah any one can become the same as god become one with brahman by doing medatation doing rightousness we are so dirty and nasty inside god is a 100 percent clean when we get clean when we start seeing
@shakeNspray made by that one god brahman everything was made by that one god brahman allah any one can become the same as god become one with brahman by doing medatation doing rightousness we are so dirty and nasty inside god is a 100 percent clean when we get clean when we start seeing
@shakeNspray god in every human being creature animal thats why eating meats bad vegetables were given by GOD for us to eat god gave us vegetables when we
stop talkin trash about people when we stop hearing trash about people when ever someones talkin trash about someoneelse we dont hear it when a person reaches at that point and more stuff
@shakeNspray the person just changes when the person reaches the highest stage which is becoming the same as god that stage cant be described the person becomes one with god no difference in the person and god theres only one one god for evey relgion theres only one god for every body animals human
@shakeNspray beings everything everyone no one can make a picture of god no one can make a image of god god never comes in human form god has no gender some people think god is man but that would be injustice to woman if they think god is a woman than thats injustice to man god is limitless has no
@shakeNspray gender brahman in the vedas upanishads is god alone who is un describle guru nanak the first guru of sikhism says the universe keeps on expanding that universe everything exists because of allah waheguru god that one who is the creator of everything is limitless is un describle
@shakeNspray when someone is talkin trash about someone that person never hears it about someone that happens when a person gets clean he or she dosent hear it when the person gets clean gods name makes our mind clean doing rightousness makes it clean and when we do more stuff we just
@shakeNspray change then a person reaches that stage were he or she becomes the same as god no difference becomes one with god anyone can become like god doesnt matter whats your relgion god bless amen and amen peace some people mis read holy books god bless amen and amen some
@shakeNspray people say islam is the only way i dont believe it some say christanity is the only way i dont believe it i believe in that one god who has no relgion all relgions are the same god has no relgion is one alone is un describle every relgions the same guru nanak the first GURU OF sikhism he teached
@shakeNspray some people say islam is the only way i dont believe it some say christanity is the only way i dont believe it i believe in that one god who has no relgion all relgions are the same god has no relgion is one alone is un describle every relgions the same guru nanak the first GURU OF sikhism he teached that in every human being god lives in every creature
@shakeNspray if there was only one relgion that was the way this world wouldnt be that interesting there all connected so is science god bless peace PREACH THIS YOU WILL TRULY BE BLESSED second hand smoke look how many people walk outside you can be killing someone without knowing it second hand smoke the government needs
@shakeNspray to stop this look at the innocent people walking on the streets i understand if a person wants to harm there self but harming others is a mega mega sin SECOND HAND SMOKE MURDER SECOND HAND SMOKE people need to start thinking peace please preach this to people this is
@shakeNspray what god wants god will be so happy and you will be blessed not even one person should be effected god lives in every human being creature animal helping one person is helping all of hummanity hurting one person is doing evil to all of hummanity just think my brothers and sisters
@shakeNspray about second hand smoke you can be killing someone without knowing it remember not even 1 person should be effected THINK? god bless peace amen and amen amen and amen a woman and man are equal its just that people have made the man bigger than woman a person should
@shakeNspray only marry one woman and man should only marry one who love each other so much and thats marriage so both should only be married with one WOMAN AND MAN there both equal THEY ARE BOTH EQUAL SOME PEOPLE MIGHT THINK ONE GENDER IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER BUT
@shakeNspray THERE EQUAL PEOPLE MAKE THEIR OWN RULES GOD HAS NO GENDER god has no gender god bless peace amen and amen we are nasty drty sexual desire and WE HAVE TO see god in everyone every creature animal gods every were thats why eating meat is bad next anger BEING
@shakeNspray ANGRY ANGER we have to get rid of that loving material stuff have to get rid off greedyness have to get rid off we have to become clean god bless peace amen and amen
SEXUAL DESIRE iS good only if its two people husband and wife that is love that is god other than that sexual desire is sin thinking about other woman IS A SIN proud thinking no one can mess with
@shakeNspray mei can do bad stuff to people if i want but really a person shouldnt be scared of anyone or anything but god and thats only if thinking about doing something evil other than that no gods kindness is limitless and just be peaceful i by mistakely scrambled all of this up god bless amen and amen
@shakeNspray peace SEE IF WE WERE THE MASTERS OF THIS UNIVERSE WE WOULD NEVER WANT ANYONE TO BECOME LIKE US BECAUSE WE ARE SELFISH BUT GOD IS A 100 PERCENT CLEAN AND WANTS EVERYONE TO BECOME LIKE SELF SO YEA A PERSON CAN BECOME LIKE GOD BY
@shakeNspray GODS GRACE GOD BLESS PEACE AMEN AND AMEN AND WE SHOULDNT WASTE ELCETRICITY AND WATER WE EVERYONE NEEDS WATER AND ELCETRICITY SOME PEOPLE GET DIRTY WATER WE HAVE TO STOP WASTING THIS ELEVATORS TAKE A LOT OF ELECTRICITY ALOT
@shakeNspray WHEN IM DOWNSTAIRS AT NIGHT I TURN THE LIGHTS OFF I TRY MY BEST NOT TO WASTE WATER AND ELECTRICITY EVEN WHEN YOU TAKE A BATH OR SHOWER MAKE IT REALLY LESS AND YOU WILL BE BLESSED PREACH THIS AND YOU WILL BE BLESSED GOD BLESS PEACE
@shakeNspray AMEN AND AMEN WE SHOULD TRY OUR BEST TO REDUCE THIS GREEN HOUSE GASES THIS PEOPLE THAT ARE USING THEM IN FACTORIES ETC AND TRY NOT USING THE CAR THAT MUCH GOD BLESS AMEN AND AMEN PEACE N everyone has there own belifs and they have the
@shakeNspray First,Out of Mercy. Causing pain is not justified. All animals, insects, killed by any means feel pain of being killed. They have a nervous system that makes them feel the pain of being killed. Cow, pig, hen, fish, crab all have a nervous system and thu
@shakeNspray feel the pain. So it's unjust to eat them as a diet.
Plants on the other hand are without nervous system. The various chemicals present in them make them respond to the various physical factors such as light,
@shakeNspray heat, minerals etc. god gave us vegetables to eat and fruit that was given by god that is natural theres no exuses what so ever its your choice to MAKE
know god gave us vegetables and eating fish is meat knw when you talked about health well you
@shakeNspray have to think about others how would a person feel if there throat was cut off if they were stabbed a lot might say were humans there animals but god lives in every insect animal human being you have to think? god gave us vegetables to eat fruits fruits are healthy theres pleanty of vegetarian
@shakeNspray stuff out there god bless amen and amen peace god lives in every human being creature animal insect god gave us VEGETABLES FRUITS TO EAT HOW WOULD IT FEEL IF SOMEONE CUT OF YOUR HEAD HOW WOULD IT FEEL IF SOMEONE STABBED YOU TO DEATH THese ARE SOME
I'm a Hindu & I have great respect for Jainism ... infact more than Hinduism. But I disagree with your statement that Jainism didn't originate from Hinduism. Both, Jainism as well as Buddhism have Hinduism as their root.
I want to ask i thing if you respect Jainism than Hinduism that's mean you consider Jainism principles is More Power full then.....& If you believe Jainism Principles is Power full than how can you think Hinduism is the root of Jainism.....
Jainism is simply character education. You do not need to believe in a god or religion to accept these principles. In fact when you call it religion you take away from the principles - you are asked to raise money and bow down to the heads of the church. Religion poisons everything.
For the moronic Idiot you are DeepMeditation let me state for one last time.
Karma is core philloshopy in Jainism and Buddhism. There is no god as per them. So nobody runs the show. The Living beings are governed by their own karma.. They have to redeem for themselves and doing no amount of pleasing by havans are yagnas to god can save them from their own karma. There is no Chitragupta who maintains account of your bad deeds and There is no Yamaraj who claims your life.
There is no creationsm in jainism.. So there is nobody harnessing the poor snake tail and head to spew out amrita and creating world.
There are no demons who get boons and are hell bent in talking lives of masses.
And ultimately there is no almighty god who can be pleased to save the world from demons.
Given that you know nothing about hinduism and jainism and buddhism you should keep your mouth shut. Lastly be open to opinions different them yours because all you know is shit.
okehhhh...thats exactly what Hindiusm also says Mr. Holyshit. The thing about chitra gupta, and yamraj were all part of mythology. In upanishads, there is no mythology; Only metaphysics and philosophy.
Hmmm...Can u give me the verses? if you know ur scriptures well, then you should give me the verses. Otherwise, you didn't prove anything.
not even how to google.. all you are doing is finding some pride in your own religion by some shitty imagintation of your own.. But if it does you some good whom am I too stop..
Why the hell r u quoting from vedas u dumb monkey? I argued that upanishads contain the core philosophical concepts about karma, moksha, and reincarnation. Upanishads do not mention mythological gods or goddesses.
I asked you to quote from upanishads, not vedas dummy.
Besides, I asked you to give me the quotes from jainist scriptures regarding karma, and so far you haven't provided any quotes.
So now vedas are not authentic resources? go on do your best.. Instead of living in world of denial learn to accept facts ..
No I dont have quotes they are in pali all i am interested is in the essence of what the quote means.. You can read herman jaccobis translation that go in detail about
You idiotic moron are waste of time a person who cannot search even after telling a name of resource.. I can wonder the depth of his research..
So lets see we started with gita then went to vedas and now to upanishads.. And Upanishad has been known to written over centuries, which are elucidation for vedas which form the basis of hinduism.
this isall for a moron who has no historical context of things and does not know how to search on Internet..
Well Btw, you need to remove the spaces in teh link above..
Monkeyhead, i never said vedas are not authentic sources. When debating about which religion came first in karma, moksha, and reincanation, we must talk about upanishads.
"No I dont have quotes they are in pali all i am interested is in the essence of what the quote means.."
maybe that religion inspired Mahatma Gandhi?! He focused on ahimsa and satyagraha.. hinduism, buddhism,jainism and even sikhism believe that a human being must be free from reincarnation for them to achieve the so-called nirvana, kevala or moksha? i really learned from all of you here especially on ur argumentation! thank u
My friends, this lunatic "Holydesk" thinks the Jainism predates Hinduism in the concepts of karma, and moksha. I gave him direct verses from upanishads (hindu scriptures which predate jainist texts by atleast 500 yrs) that talk about moksha, and karma explicitly.
There is also latest evidence of the actual events of mahabharata, most of it coming from the recovered ancient city of dwarka, which is exactly the way it is described in mahabharata.
I guess only way people can stick to there weird imagination is by thinking that they are facts is by calling others lunatic?
I am surprised by your depth of denials to history. Go on do your best! Things wont change just because you refuse to seem them as they are. But what the heck, Behind closed eyes, colors fade and blend into new creations.
man, that debate with you was a waste of my time. You made dogmatic claims, and I refuted them with overwhelming evidence, especially from upanishad verses, which mentioned karma, moksha, and reincarnation centuries b4 jainism
BTW, the video is BS.. Employment guarantee??.. and what was that about CASTE.. Skills and trade.. you are an idiot to even cite this as an argument.. i am amazed by how belifs can blind people.. no wonder you think and talk shit..
Thridly, the indian school you dumb monkey, was from THRITY FOUR YEARS AGO in 1975. You clearly are not in year 2009. The year 1975 is not exactly cutting-edge arechealogy.
In 1975, scientists didn't discover that sun was rotating, they discovered it recently.
So according to you, the sun is not rotating in 2009 and it never rotated before. Wake up 2 ur own stupid logic Mr. Holyshit.
And also give me the britannica encyclopedia link to the dates of bhagavad-gita.
The bhagavad-gita also mentions it in even more detail, and I gave you the exact dates of bhagavad-gita to be 500BCE, which you think is disputable. But even if the timeline of BG is disputable, you still can't disprove the fact that upanishads predated jainism. It is confirmed historically that upanishads originated long b4 jainism. You don't seem to be agree with this, even though its an established fact, which is a sign of your fundamentalism.
I cannot revisit each argument again,, If you care enough you can read them up.. But your goal just seems to beat the drum so go on.. louder is not always right.
You clearly need some medical help!.. I can understand man.. Its not your fault.. may be ur Karma lol!
"Those history books are published pretty recentl."
Are u for real? Fine, tell me which year were they published in? Books from 1975 is the only historical source you have to prove your illogical claims.
And btw, the historical book u cited (from 1975) only claims 2 disprove the events of mahabharata, but that didn't disprove the dates of upanishads. So atman, karma, moksha, reincarnation, were all concepts mentioned in upanishads way before jainist texts. NOW DISPROVE THIS if u r man enough
"the Class 11 book Ancient India History, written by Prof. Ram Sharan Sharma, discards the presence of Lord Krishna during the Mahabharata. The book says, "Although Krishna plays an important role in the Mahabharata, inscriptions and sculptural pieces found in Mathura dating back to 200 BC and 300 AD do not attest to his presence. Because of this, ideas of an epic age based on the Ramayana and Mahabharata have to be discarded."
I never told Jainism is older than Hinduism. Yes I did tell karma is not a hindu concept. You who argued that it by citing that it appeared in bhagavad gita. For which i replied that there is no known proof of Mahabhartha happening or Sri krishna ever walking on this earth. historically, Mahabharatha is a epic written in Post AD (5 AD or should i say 5th century AD for the naive's)period much after jainism and buddhism came in to prominence.
Now you are going to cite excavation in bay of Bengal which are believed to be remains of Dwarka. That still does not prove Mahabharata ever happened. In fact karma is not discussed in any of the Vedas. It is discussed in Upanishads but not in first 2 that were written in BC periods.
So neither i Lied nor i am taking back any of argument but your fascist beliefs have blinded you and dont seem to understand what you are arguing for.
"In fact karma is not discussed in any of the Vedas."
The point is not whether karma is discussed in the vedas or not, the actual question should be, is the karma mentioned in hindu texts before jainism texts(b4 2nd century BCE)?
And the answer is obviously yes. I've given you accurate dates, and given you direct verses from upanishads to show Atman is a hindu concept, and so far you haven't shown any.
"Now you are going to cite excavation in bay of Bengal which are believed to be remains of Dwarka. That still does not prove Mahabharata ever happened."
naive? I'm not the 28-yr old who listens to nursery rhymes, it sure tells who is naive
Bhagavad-gita according to expert-approved resources was completed in 5th century BCE, 3 centuries before jainist texts Jainism's first text was completed in 2nd Century BCE.
"the Class 11 book Ancient India History, written by Prof. Ram Sharan Sharma, discards the presence of Lord Krishna during the Mahabharata. The book says, "Although Krishna plays an important role in the Mahabharata, inscriptions and sculptural pieces found in Mathura dating back to 200 BC and 300 AD do not attest to his presence. Because of this, ideas of an epic age based on the Ramayana and Mahabharata have to be discarded."
On Ayodhya, the book says, "Archaeological evidence should be considered far more important than long family trees given in the Puranas because Puranic tradition can be used to date Ram of Ayodhya to 2,000 BC, but diggings and extensive exploration in Ayodhya do not show any settlement of the time."
I am citing this from Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: "Bhagavadgita
(Sanskrit: "Song of God") One of the greatest of the Hindu scriptures, constituting part of the Mahabharata. It is written in the form of a dialogue between the warrior Prince Arjuna and the charioteer Krishna, an incarnation of Vishnu. It was probably composed in the 1st or 2nd century AD, later than much of the epic."
None of your arguments have turned out to be true. You have very little or no understanding history and you still seem to argue on wrong facts based on some findings from probably some dogmatic sites.. and above all you have guts to call me names... Next time you post something make sure they are based on facts atleast if not it should appeal to rationale. Not something like krishna was born on 32** whatever year.
Whats your point.. I never said that Jainism is older than hinduism. I just said the The epics Mahabharatha and Ramayana were composed post AD period Later then 4th Century AD. Reference: History books Ancient and Medival India, NCERT.
Yes the Jain scriptures were written much later but Mahavira was the person who reformed Jainism. What i meant was Tatvartha sutra is not the first literature in any case.
For your information only the upanishads have been writte over vast span of time.
"I never said that Jainism is older than hinduism."
You said, Jainism is the first to mention atman and karma while I quoted several verses from upanishads and bhagavad-gita which predate jainism, that talk explicitly about atman.
Thats where you have lied, saying that atman and karma are jainist concepts
Seeing all these dscussions about Jainism and Hinduism, as a Buddhist, I would like to add that early Buddhism has a lot of influence from Jainism. Buddhism follows the sramana tradition and not the brahmana tradition. It also uses many terms common to the Jains but not the Hindu like Arahant (arihant), Buddha, Jina to depict a perfected one. The term Buddha was actually used by the Jains first. It is only later that Buddhism received influence from the Hindus.
"I would like to add that early Buddhism has a lot of influence from Jainism"
I don't think I agree with what you just said. Buddhism predates Jainism. The first texts of Jainism were compiled in 2nd century BCE, but buddha was from 5th century BCE.
You are incorrect. 2nd century was when tatvartha suthra compiled It is not the first Jainism literature by any means. Mahavira was born in 5BC and that is been historically documented. Parshvanath was born 150years before Mahavira.
Are you ingonarant are intentionally falsfying facts to further your prejudice.
"2nd century was when tatvartha suthra compiled It is not the first Jainism literature...Mahavira was born in 5BC"
I think you meant 5th CENTURY BCE, not 5BCE, this would be from 1st century BCE.
Anyway,
Mahavira is a human being, he is not a literature. The first literature of jainist tradition is compiled in 2nd century BCE, and this has been confirmed.
The upanishads were being complied around 2000 BCE to 1000 BCE, long before parshvanath.
"And for your information BC follow reverse chronology. 5 BC was before 2 BC."
I know that. You are the one who is confused, 5BC or 2BC is from first century BCE, but parshavanth was from 592 BCE, so that would actually make it 6th century BCE
Mahvira was around 5 BC.. It was implied... 5BC is 5the century BC. Pls stop being naive.. put on some arguments that does both of us some good in our understanding history. otherwise its just waste of time.
5BC and 5th century BC is different but it is understood nobody talks about precise year in the historical context. it is always the century.. And for my convenience i ignored the word century. The buddhist scriptures talks about Jainism and Mahavira in particular. now you cannot argue falsify that. Read some literature before arguing it will do you good.
Whoa whoa.. What are you talking about??.. I said i agreed with most of the core belifs of jainism and it is core Jainist philoshopy that every thing should be supported by reason. I didnt say anything about vedas here. dint I say anything ill about hinduism either if you read my comments properly.
BTW i said it was my belief that to understand a religion one should read thro the scriptures.. Yes i read herman jacobi's veda to the extent i could. I read Jain agams translation too. Read Jinasena's mahapurana and Sammana suttam if you want to understand jainism.
Jainism is fine except that the sadhus have now started keeping money indirectly by trusts managed by them.They have also started interfering in the affairs of trusts. they even claim share of moneyreceived as donation during their "chomasa" in upashrays & mandirs.
I have not heard about it myself.. but i think it is plausible. But I dont think sadhus reflect of what jainism is 100%. If you want to learn about any religion, the best way is to read the scriptures that form the fundamental philosophy and reason out yourself what the intent. I think the philsophies of jainism are rational and scientific. Now I dont agree with 100% of it. The thing that i like most is, as per Jainism, no truth can ever be devoid of logic.
Aryan Invasion theory, invented by max mueller (a BRITISH indologist) has been proven wrong completely after discovering huge amounts of archealogical evidence recently which push the dates of vedas back to 7000 BCE and mahabarata possibly around to 4000 or 3000 BCE
Besides, Sri Krishna was born around 3228 BCE who first taught Bhagavad-gita to Arjuna on the battlefield of kurukshetra, has talked about Karmic Philosophy way b4 jainism
The concept of Atman, and Moksha are influenced by Hindus
Please point me out the vedas that mentions atman and moksha you are mentioning here and i am happy to read. To say that there was sophitication of what mahabharatha and ramayana claims around 3000 4000 BC is oblivious. I dont have any facist idea about any religions point me to some genuine resources of you your claim and i will happily read thro it. On a differnt note i guess you should try herman jacobi's translations
"To say that there was sophitication of what mahabharatha and ramayana claims around 3000 4000 BC is oblivious."
I already told you this, Sri Krishna was born in 3228 BCE, he taught Bhagavad-Gita to Arjuna, and he mentions all the notions of moskha, karma and reincarnation
There are many verses in bhagavad-gita that talk about Moksha, Karma, and Reincarnation
What makes you so sure of the date.. Sri Krishna is a mythological figure there is no known proof of him ever walking on this earth. So you believe that Mahabharata happened for real?? Come on..
I currently do not have any reference to prove about Sri Krishna. But from what I have heard (from the preachings of Jain saints), one day Sri Krishna and Neminath (22nd Thirtankar) had met, and even had conversation.
My point is Sri Krishna existed even in Jainism.
FYI:According to Jainism 'Rama' is god for them too.
Time period between each Thirtankar is in thousands of years. The great people I mentioned all come after 1st Thirtankar Adinath or Rishibdev.
Its true.. I agree Hinduism has been there much before jainism.. Even I heard about those claims. But I guess there is historical conatation for that.. Neither i believe in veracity in existence of first 22 thirthankaras completely. Only the existence of last 2 thirthankaras have been historically proved I believe. There are vague reference of existence of Adinath but nothing more than that.
hmm.. I didn't say anything about which religion existed first! :)
To prove it would take a lot of time...
Jains believe that there exists thousands of organisms in a drop of water... but the scientific study isn't even close enough.. it will take a long time.
By the way... Bhahubali is the son of Adinath. And Mahaveer in one his previous lives, was a grandson of Adinath. That time he was called maricha, and he was going against the principles of Jainism. Thats a diff story! :)
Yes i have heard that story.. I think its part of mythology and does not fascinate me..
To be honest the thing I find interesting is the discussion of various ideas that was particulary happening in that period between the sharamana religions and sankya and vaisheshika school of thougts
Unlike you i dont have any fundamentalist approach to any religion even jainism. I will wait until those parts of jain mythology are proven by historical facts until that, it will not excite me..
The point is none of jain philosophy revolves around God/or any supernatural being. So if you take out mythology of thirthankara out nothing falls apart. The aguments posted are self sustained and have no bearing on existence of thirhankaras themselves.
"So if u take out mythology of thirthankara out nothing falls apart"
Thats exactly what Hinduism is all about. Hinduism is not about mythology. The essence of hinduism is centered on one all-pervading infinite being called Brahman. It is the source and end of all things. It is never been born nor will it ever die. It is beyond name and form and our individual minds cannot conceptualize or visualize the infinitude of the infinite being called Brahman
Thats a very paradoxical satement. Are you saying there is no mythology in hinduism?
Every religion has mythology it is integrated part of every religion. I guess the test is how much the fundamental doctrines depend on mythology :). Fortunately, per jainism any thing to be considered truth should either be established by logical reasoning or by experimentation.
I never belived in a personal god, nor will I ever believe in one. But if you actually understand BG, you will notice that the whole scripture is designed for people to attain moksha through the highest form of yoga called Bhakti. Bhakti yoga is one the easiest way to attain moksha. Hence, a personal god must be present for a devotee to meditate upon.
All the talk about moksha and karma in jainism is actually implanted in the tattvartha sutra, which according to a jainist website "..represents aphoristic text of Jain system. It must have been composed during 200-400 A.D."
This information is found in YOUR OWN religion's website jainaworld . com
And click "introduction to jainism" which is at the bottom
or
here is the direct link to it
jainworld . com / education / seniors/senles23 . htm
So it is now back to Gita from upanishads and vedas. But I am glad you recognize that there are different rationalization in hindu thoughts. Consider the historical context my friend things will make sense.
I have never seen you citing sankhya and vaisheshika thougts which are more interesting to me than the vedas itself. in fact if you research more on them then you will see my viewpoint. It was era when old dogmas were challenged and you see the beautiful synthesis of what we have today.
That was from britannica encyclopedia. For us sane people we think credibility is important. But cleary that will not impress you. As long as you can whip up some shit from some websites that gives you solace.
So you are saying, you read all 4 vedas (in sanskrit? or English?) and reasoned out everything and came to conclusion that they are illogical?
"I think the philsophies of jainism are rational and scientific.."
You THINK the philosphies of Jainsim are rational. You THINK, you don't even know
You are assuming, they may be, but they aren't so radically diff. from Hinduism. They don't say anything new, they repeats Hinduism, just like Buddhism did
Yes i think.. I don't believe in fascist idea about any religion.
How come you know that Jainism repeats what hinduism has to say. I will say no.
Whether you like it or not, Hinduism was about caste system, Sati system, human and animal sacrifices by bunch of yogis for their own good before Jainism and Buddhism came in to prominence. check your history books
"Hinduism was about caste system, Sati system, human and animal sacrifices by bunch of yogis for their own good before Jainism and Buddhism came in to prominence."
how funni, you said you are well knowledged with Hinduism and you talk all these nonsense, you obviously are a loon.
Caste system and sati was a culture-related practices, it had nothing to do with religion. Give me one verse in vedas or upanishads that talks about caste system or sati, one verse!
You have obviously not read any hindu scriptures. have you read the classification of brahman and kshatriya, vaisya and shudra. Shudra being the legs of the society..
So before stooping to personal attacks get your facts right... I am not degrading hinduism neither I am also not saying that jainism is superior religion but i will not agree somebody smearing it with incorrect facts.
Whose religion here is Jainism??? please I need to know....
HexyzRoyce 3 months ago
In my opinion, the word "samyak" also refers to "true" or "right". So for example Samyak Dhristi would mean seeing the "true" nature of the objects/beings.
ashxyz2008x3 5 months ago
If you are drinking and eating dairy products then U must stop yr hypocratic drama about hinsa
and ahinsa. U are like foolish, who will never rise & go beyond such drama. and continue foolish
arguments till Infinity.
100ANX 8 months ago
Jai Arvind Prabhu , Jai Aristotle , Jai Augustine , Jai Buddha , Jai Chuang Tzu , Jai Eckhart
Tolle (LIVE) , Jai Gurdjief , Jai Gyaneshwar , Jai Jalaram , Jai Jarthrustra , Jai Jesus , Jai
Jhulelal , Jai J.Krishnamurty Prabhu , Jai Kabira , Jai Krishna Prabhu , Jai Lao Tzu , JAI MIRA ,
Jai Mahavir Prabhu , Jai Mansur , Jai Mohammad , Jai Moses , Jai Mooji (LIVE) , Jai Nanak Prabhu
100ANX 8 months ago
Jai Osho Prabhu ,Jai Ospensky , Jai Papaji , Jai Plato , Jai Ramana Maharshi , Jai Ramkrishna
Paramhansa , Jai Saibaba , Jai Socretis , Jai Tukaram Prabhu , Jai Vivekanand Prabhu , Jai
Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath (LIVE)....
100ANX 8 months ago
VEGANS :
There are approximately total 1.5 Cr Vegans around the world.
(Vegans choose not to eat anything which is taken from animals, for example:
* No dairy products such as cows milk, cheese and yogurt; nor goats milk
* No honey
Though Vegans Are Not Shouting Loudly That , Look Our Religion Is Great , We Are So Great And All
Others Are Below Us. They Are Not Showing False Ego. They Are Saying That There Is No Connection
Between Veganism And (Dharma) Kingdom Of God.
100ANX 8 months ago
We Are Just Following Veganism Naturally To Live Life Aesthetically. Try Your Best To Follow
Veganism But If You Are Not Able To Follow , Your Nature And Genetics Is Not Allowing You Than It
Doesnt Means That You Are Below Us Or Any Such Thing And We Are Doing Something Great.
100ANX 8 months ago
All Nobel Prize Winners (Physics, Chemistry, Biology etc.) Are drinking Milk And Eating Potato,
Onion And Garlic. They Have Done Tremendous , Amazing & Mind Blowing Work For Whole World &
Humanity. They Have Done It Very Naturally, Peacefully, Silently & Without Any Purpose.
100ANX 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
For anyone who desires the truth, please check out the scribd website that is listed on my channel.
DreamsofMajesty 10 months ago
@all: even if u make nasty remark bout jainism, it'll still forgive u..dat is wat makes this religion great..it doesnt preach resentment or holding grudges, all it teaches is non-violence and simplicity of thoughts n deeds..
proud to be a jain...god bless u all..
sanjayiscrazy 1 year ago 2
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@miladmeah: so u mean to say all those people killed by terrorist activity is a good work and should be continued.
Islam is a very violence religion ..
sry 4 saying that but i can only predict that by reading ur comments.
mehtavikas99 1 year ago
@miladmeah: so u mean to say all those people killed by terrorist activity is a good work and should be continued.
Islam is a very violence religion ..
sry 4 saying that but i can only predict that by reading ur comments.
mehtavikas99 1 year ago
Muslims do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do
Let us go through some of Quran teachings, a closer look at what Allah says.
“not to make friendship with Jews and Christians”Q5:51,
“kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”Q2:191,
“murder them and treat them harshly”Q9:123,
“fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem”Q9:5.
Google: "faithfreedom" - "myspear"
miladmeah 1 year ago
Jain Dharma Ki JAI HO.
babusaab2011 1 year ago 3
Anyone know what 'non absolutism' means here?
sitemountain 1 year ago
@sitemountain I think it means respecting the views of others. Not believing that your own view is the only (absolute)
Wak3me 9 months ago
Hey dude change the music.Good Work.
mehtavikas99 1 year ago
scribd (dot) com/nb812
DreamsofMajesty 1 year ago
Please visit: ww w.faithfreedom.o rg
To download
A new and 'free' PDF book by Sujit Das:
"Unmasking Muhammad"
The A to Z of Muhammad the founder of jihadism
miladmeah 1 year ago
#angus: That is what Muslims do - they did that during the partition
Muhammad did that in the 7th cent.
BLAME THEIR VICTIMS
-
Muhammad said in his Quran that Allah said Apes are JEWS
Qur'an 7:166, 2:65 and 5:60 mention that some disobedient Jews and Christians were turned into Apes and Pigs as a punishment.
-
Illiterate (he really was) Idiot Muhammad and his Allah, did not know Jainism in India existed before Islam
-
PLEASE Google "Who WAS Muhammad" - for more on stupid Muhammad
miladmeah 1 year ago
WHY Muslims come here and make nasty remarks?
-
PLEASE GOOGLE "FAITHFREEDOM"
& download free PDF book by Sujit Das -'Unmasking Muhd'
-
That website tells what actually is written in their Quran
WILL SURPRISE YOU, their inside knowledge tells, why Muslims create terrorism & blame their victims
QUOTES IN QURAN, MUSLIM HISTORIANS & MUHAMMAD tell Muslims to kill non-Muslims
-
It's written "Infidels are firewood of hell, kill them to keep it burning"-This QUOTE ACTUALLY IS IN THE QURAN Chpt.72verse15
miladmeah 1 year ago
@miladmeah i believe what you wrote is against Jainism, and i believe it is not compassionate. please try to see things from their prospective and with an open mind. Not only is that the Jain way it is the right way... Jai Jinendra
angusmcbagpipes 1 year ago
@miladmeah Islam means peace.
Godistheufo1 1 year ago
I like Jain art. I also look forward to know more about this religion.
TheUncannie 1 year ago 3
I didn't know the swastika was an ancient Indian symbol...hey, I think I learnt something from youtube!
lizardspawn 2 years ago
No! Jainism does not believe in caste system. Untouchability is completely out of question, as in Jainism not only the humans are treated equally, but all the living beings (plants, animals, insects) are considered as souls. And every soul is believed to have ability to achieve godhood! So we have equal love and compassion for "All Living Beings".
anuja0304 2 years ago 4
@anuja0304 so what your saying is every ant and bee in a hive has a soul, and every individual ant and bee in a hive can get to godhood? this is what they believe...?
shakeNspray 2 years ago
Yes! every living being has a soul. And soul can achieve 'Moksha'. There is a proper way to achieve moksha. The soul when in form of ant or bee or any other form can not achieve moksha. It can only be achieved when soul is in human form.
anuja0304 2 years ago
Jainism has rebirth and karma concept in its basics. We try not to harm any soul as they can attain human form and get moksha too, as we can. And additionally 'I', the soul, that is residing right now in human form could have been a ant, elephant or what not in previous birth.
anuja0304 2 years ago
@anuja0304 wow, thanks for that info. Amazing at how many religions and beliefs are out there that people believe and follow..truly is
shakeNspray 2 years ago
@shakeNspray theres only one god the vedas upanishads its in their brahman that is the almighty god just like how guru gobind singh ji the 10th guru of sikhism says god has no shape colour relgion just like how sikhism says god never comes in human form god has no enemys just like how spinoiza and
mosiefool 1 year ago
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@shakeNspray sikhism says theres only one god that is brahman that is allah waheguru almighty god no one can make a picture of god lord shiva lord vishnu lord brahma all the pagan dietys the moon the sun egyptian dietys some or all of them
probaly by know became the same as god became one with god i dont know if they did they were all
mosiefool 1 year ago
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@shakeNspray made by that one god brahman everything was made by that one god brahman allah any one can become the same as god become one with brahman by doing medatation doing rightousness we are so dirty and nasty inside god is a 100 percent clean when we get clean when we start seeing
mosiefool 1 year ago
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@shakeNspray made by that one god brahman everything was made by that one god brahman allah any one can become the same as god become one with brahman by doing medatation doing rightousness we are so dirty and nasty inside god is a 100 percent clean when we get clean when we start seeing
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray god in every human being creature animal thats why eating meats bad vegetables were given by GOD for us to eat god gave us vegetables when we
stop talkin trash about people when we stop hearing trash about people when ever someones talkin trash about someoneelse we dont hear it when a person reaches at that point and more stuff
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray the person just changes when the person reaches the highest stage which is becoming the same as god that stage cant be described the person becomes one with god no difference in the person and god theres only one one god for evey relgion theres only one god for every body animals human
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray beings everything everyone no one can make a picture of god no one can make a image of god god never comes in human form god has no gender some people think god is man but that would be injustice to woman if they think god is a woman than thats injustice to man god is limitless has no
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray gender brahman in the vedas upanishads is god alone who is un describle guru nanak the first guru of sikhism says the universe keeps on expanding that universe everything exists because of allah waheguru god that one who is the creator of everything is limitless is un describle
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray when someone is talkin trash about someone that person never hears it about someone that happens when a person gets clean he or she dosent hear it when the person gets clean gods name makes our mind clean doing rightousness makes it clean and when we do more stuff we just
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray change then a person reaches that stage were he or she becomes the same as god no difference becomes one with god anyone can become like god doesnt matter whats your relgion god bless amen and amen peace some people mis read holy books god bless amen and amen some
mosiefool 1 year ago
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@shakeNspray people say islam is the only way i dont believe it some say christanity is the only way i dont believe it i believe in that one god who has no relgion all relgions are the same god has no relgion is one alone is un describle every relgions the same guru nanak the first GURU OF sikhism he teached
mosiefool 1 year ago
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@shakeNspray some people say islam is the only way i dont believe it some say christanity is the only way i dont believe it i believe in that one god who has no relgion all relgions are the same god has no relgion is one alone is un describle every relgions the same guru nanak the first GURU OF sikhism he teached that in every human being god lives in every creature
mosiefool 1 year ago
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@shakeNspray if there was only one relgion that was the way this world wouldnt be that interesting there all connected so is science god bless peace PREACH THIS YOU WILL TRULY BE BLESSED second hand smoke look how many people walk outside you can be killing someone without knowing it second hand smoke the government needs
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray to stop this look at the innocent people walking on the streets i understand if a person wants to harm there self but harming others is a mega mega sin SECOND HAND SMOKE MURDER SECOND HAND SMOKE people need to start thinking peace please preach this to people this is
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray what god wants god will be so happy and you will be blessed not even one person should be effected god lives in every human being creature animal helping one person is helping all of hummanity hurting one person is doing evil to all of hummanity just think my brothers and sisters
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray about second hand smoke you can be killing someone without knowing it remember not even 1 person should be effected THINK? god bless peace amen and amen amen and amen a woman and man are equal its just that people have made the man bigger than woman a person should
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray only marry one woman and man should only marry one who love each other so much and thats marriage so both should only be married with one WOMAN AND MAN there both equal THEY ARE BOTH EQUAL SOME PEOPLE MIGHT THINK ONE GENDER IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER BUT
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray THERE EQUAL PEOPLE MAKE THEIR OWN RULES GOD HAS NO GENDER god has no gender god bless peace amen and amen we are nasty drty sexual desire and WE HAVE TO see god in everyone every creature animal gods every were thats why eating meat is bad next anger BEING
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray ANGRY ANGER we have to get rid of that loving material stuff have to get rid off greedyness have to get rid off we have to become clean god bless peace amen and amen
SEXUAL DESIRE iS good only if its two people husband and wife that is love that is god other than that sexual desire is sin thinking about other woman IS A SIN proud thinking no one can mess with
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray mei can do bad stuff to people if i want but really a person shouldnt be scared of anyone or anything but god and thats only if thinking about doing something evil other than that no gods kindness is limitless and just be peaceful i by mistakely scrambled all of this up god bless amen and amen
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray peace SEE IF WE WERE THE MASTERS OF THIS UNIVERSE WE WOULD NEVER WANT ANYONE TO BECOME LIKE US BECAUSE WE ARE SELFISH BUT GOD IS A 100 PERCENT CLEAN AND WANTS EVERYONE TO BECOME LIKE SELF SO YEA A PERSON CAN BECOME LIKE GOD BY
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray GODS GRACE GOD BLESS PEACE AMEN AND AMEN AND WE SHOULDNT WASTE ELCETRICITY AND WATER WE EVERYONE NEEDS WATER AND ELCETRICITY SOME PEOPLE GET DIRTY WATER WE HAVE TO STOP WASTING THIS ELEVATORS TAKE A LOT OF ELECTRICITY ALOT
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray WHEN IM DOWNSTAIRS AT NIGHT I TURN THE LIGHTS OFF I TRY MY BEST NOT TO WASTE WATER AND ELECTRICITY EVEN WHEN YOU TAKE A BATH OR SHOWER MAKE IT REALLY LESS AND YOU WILL BE BLESSED PREACH THIS AND YOU WILL BE BLESSED GOD BLESS PEACE
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray AMEN AND AMEN WE SHOULD TRY OUR BEST TO REDUCE THIS GREEN HOUSE GASES THIS PEOPLE THAT ARE USING THEM IN FACTORIES ETC AND TRY NOT USING THE CAR THAT MUCH GOD BLESS AMEN AND AMEN PEACE N everyone has there own belifs and they have the
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray freedom to think what they want to belif think but dont talk nastyness trash about others relgion GOD BLESS PEACE AMEN AND AMEN
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray First,Out of Mercy. Causing pain is not justified. All animals, insects, killed by any means feel pain of being killed. They have a nervous system that makes them feel the pain of being killed. Cow, pig, hen, fish, crab all have a nervous system and thu
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray feel the pain. So it's unjust to eat them as a diet.
Plants on the other hand are without nervous system. The various chemicals present in them make them respond to the various physical factors such as light,
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray heat, minerals etc. god gave us vegetables to eat and fruit that was given by god that is natural theres no exuses what so ever its your choice to MAKE
know god gave us vegetables and eating fish is meat knw when you talked about health well you
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray have to think about others how would a person feel if there throat was cut off if they were stabbed a lot might say were humans there animals but god lives in every insect animal human being you have to think? god gave us vegetables to eat fruits fruits are healthy theres pleanty of vegetarian
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray stuff out there god bless amen and amen peace god lives in every human being creature animal insect god gave us VEGETABLES FRUITS TO EAT HOW WOULD IT FEEL IF SOMEONE CUT OF YOUR HEAD HOW WOULD IT FEEL IF SOMEONE STABBED YOU TO DEATH THese ARE SOME
mosiefool 1 year ago
@shakeNspray QUESTIONS YOU HAVE TO ASK YOUR SELF GOD BLESS PEACE AMEN AND AMEN PREACH THIS AND YOU WILL BE BLESSED GOD BLESS PEACE AMEN AND AMEN
mosiefool 1 year ago
looks like a pleasant faith and people :)
snuffles1111 2 years ago 15
Gob bless Jainism !
JeanGabin75 2 years ago 8
@JeanGabin75 eh...
bigscaryboat 1 year ago
jainism was Diff, is Diff And will be neither It's Originated from Hinduism Nor Its Influenced form that may be vice versa
Jai Jinendra
TJSKULL52 2 years ago
I'm a Hindu & I have great respect for Jainism ... infact more than Hinduism. But I disagree with your statement that Jainism didn't originate from Hinduism. Both, Jainism as well as Buddhism have Hinduism as their root.
samann95014 2 years ago
I want to ask i thing if you respect Jainism than Hinduism that's mean you consider Jainism principles is More Power full then.....& If you believe Jainism Principles is Power full than how can you think Hinduism is the root of Jainism.....
please tell.........
nipunjain999 2 years ago
Jainism is simply character education. You do not need to believe in a god or religion to accept these principles. In fact when you call it religion you take away from the principles - you are asked to raise money and bow down to the heads of the church. Religion poisons everything.
ohsnap31 2 years ago
i agree with you........!
nipunjain999 2 years ago
For the moronic Idiot you are DeepMeditation let me state for one last time.
Karma is core philloshopy in Jainism and Buddhism. There is no god as per them. So nobody runs the show. The Living beings are governed by their own karma.. They have to redeem for themselves and doing no amount of pleasing by havans are yagnas to god can save them from their own karma. There is no Chitragupta who maintains account of your bad deeds and There is no Yamaraj who claims your life.
Holydesk 2 years ago
There is no creationsm in jainism.. So there is nobody harnessing the poor snake tail and head to spew out amrita and creating world.
There are no demons who get boons and are hell bent in talking lives of masses.
And ultimately there is no almighty god who can be pleased to save the world from demons.
Given that you know nothing about hinduism and jainism and buddhism you should keep your mouth shut. Lastly be open to opinions different them yours because all you know is shit.
Holydesk 2 years ago
okehhhh...thats exactly what Hindiusm also says Mr. Holyshit. The thing about chitra gupta, and yamraj were all part of mythology. In upanishads, there is no mythology; Only metaphysics and philosophy.
Hmmm...Can u give me the verses? if you know ur scriptures well, then you should give me the verses. Otherwise, you didn't prove anything.
.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
Oh Really.. Is it so.. Then why are the havans etc are performed? It seems you have lost all the mental faculties you moron ..
Pasting from wikipedia. There are bunch of them available for Yamaraj too
In the Garud Puran, Chitragupta is hailed as the first man to give the script.
"Chitragupta namastubhyam vedaksaradatre"
The Rig Veda mentions an invocation to be made to Chitragupta before offering sacrifice.
"Om tat purushaya vidmahe Chitragupta dhimahi tanno lekha prachodayaat."
Holydesk 2 years ago
So this proves you know nothing at all..
not even how to google.. all you are doing is finding some pride in your own religion by some shitty imagintation of your own.. But if it does you some good whom am I too stop..
Holydesk 2 years ago
reposting since the link didnt get through:
On Wikipedia:
wiki/Yama_(Hinduism)
wiki/Chitragupta
Holydesk 2 years ago
Why the hell r u quoting from vedas u dumb monkey? I argued that upanishads contain the core philosophical concepts about karma, moksha, and reincarnation. Upanishads do not mention mythological gods or goddesses.
I asked you to quote from upanishads, not vedas dummy.
Besides, I asked you to give me the quotes from jainist scriptures regarding karma, and so far you haven't provided any quotes.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
So now vedas are not authentic resources? go on do your best.. Instead of living in world of denial learn to accept facts ..
No I dont have quotes they are in pali all i am interested is in the essence of what the quote means.. You can read herman jaccobis translation that go in detail about
You idiotic moron are waste of time a person who cannot search even after telling a name of resource.. I can wonder the depth of his research..
britannica. com/EBchecked/topic/63871/Bhagavadgita
Holydesk 2 years ago
So lets see we started with gita then went to vedas and now to upanishads.. And Upanishad has been known to written over centuries, which are elucidation for vedas which form the basis of hinduism.
this isall for a moron who has no historical context of things and does not know how to search on Internet..
Well Btw, you need to remove the spaces in teh link above..
Holydesk 2 years ago
"So now vedas are not authentic resources?"
Monkeyhead, i never said vedas are not authentic sources. When debating about which religion came first in karma, moksha, and reincanation, we must talk about upanishads.
"No I dont have quotes they are in pali all i am interested is in the essence of what the quote means.."
What a way to get around.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
Well said!!!
anuja0304 2 years ago
I am denying nothing. You are in denying senses DeepMeditation42. Stop talking shit all around
Holydesk 2 years ago
Can any Indian Jainists go into further detail about compassion as according to Jainist beliefs or doctrine?
RodCornholio 3 years ago
Hi Rod. Send me a message on amitjain05 at gmail. I will reply to your questions.
amitjain05 3 years ago
maybe that religion inspired Mahatma Gandhi?! He focused on ahimsa and satyagraha.. hinduism, buddhism,jainism and even sikhism believe that a human being must be free from reincarnation for them to achieve the so-called nirvana, kevala or moksha? i really learned from all of you here especially on ur argumentation! thank u
imolwayzbeme 3 years ago 3
My friends, this lunatic "Holydesk" thinks the Jainism predates Hinduism in the concepts of karma, and moksha. I gave him direct verses from upanishads (hindu scriptures which predate jainist texts by atleast 500 yrs) that talk about moksha, and karma explicitly.
There is also latest evidence of the actual events of mahabharata, most of it coming from the recovered ancient city of dwarka, which is exactly the way it is described in mahabharata.
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
I guess only way people can stick to there weird imagination is by thinking that they are facts is by calling others lunatic?
I am surprised by your depth of denials to history. Go on do your best! Things wont change just because you refuse to seem them as they are. But what the heck, Behind closed eyes, colors fade and blend into new creations.
Holydesk 3 years ago
man, that debate with you was a waste of my time. You made dogmatic claims, and I refuted them with overwhelming evidence, especially from upanishad verses, which mentioned karma, moksha, and reincarnation centuries b4 jainism
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
I made dogmatic claims? You are the one who argued that
- Caste system was the right thing
- You denied that there where animal sacrifices made in vedic yagnas
-You said the history school books published by the Indian school board were incorrect and incredible
- You said Britanica encyclopedia was incorrect and incredible
- Infact all your citation were from wikipedia or some other incredible resource.
Man thats too much too digest :)
Holydesk 2 years ago
Man u r really a lunatic!
I never said caste system was the right thing, i asked your opinion of why you think it is bad.
Here is the video about caste system:
/watch?v=_OpHieszV14
You clearly misunderstood caste system. Watch this video, and if u still complain about it, then go to a doctor or even a psychiatrist.
Secondly, I never denied that there were animal sacrifices mentioned in vedic yagnas. I asked you to give me the source of it, give me the verses.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
BTW, the video is BS.. Employment guarantee??.. and what was that about CASTE.. Skills and trade.. you are an idiot to even cite this as an argument.. i am amazed by how belifs can blind people.. no wonder you think and talk shit..
Holydesk 2 years ago
Thridly, the indian school you dumb monkey, was from THRITY FOUR YEARS AGO in 1975. You clearly are not in year 2009. The year 1975 is not exactly cutting-edge arechealogy.
In 1975, scientists didn't discover that sun was rotating, they discovered it recently.
So according to you, the sun is not rotating in 2009 and it never rotated before. Wake up 2 ur own stupid logic Mr. Holyshit.
And also give me the britannica encyclopedia link to the dates of bhagavad-gita.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
Really.. Those history books are published pretty recentl..
So now you are the master historian/archelogist/whatever..
How come none of your comments/arguments never make in to in credible historical resources.
You really need some medical help Deep Meditation.. try some meditation too.. Insted of spewing hatred and wrong information
Holydesk 2 years ago
You still haven't provided me any links to britannica encyclopedia regarding the dates of Bhagavad-gita.
I don't have access to britannica encyclopedia.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
"I made dogmatic claims? "
Yes you have, go back and read ur posts again.
Besides, upanishads predate jainist texts, and Sanskrit was first developed by Hindus.
All the yogas, meditative techniques, and other spiritual practices originated from Hinduism.
For some reason, your ego cannot accept these facts.
And plz stop wasting my time.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
The bhagavad-gita also mentions it in even more detail, and I gave you the exact dates of bhagavad-gita to be 500BCE, which you think is disputable. But even if the timeline of BG is disputable, you still can't disprove the fact that upanishads predated jainism. It is confirmed historically that upanishads originated long b4 jainism. You don't seem to be agree with this, even though its an established fact, which is a sign of your fundamentalism.
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
I cannot revisit each argument again,, If you care enough you can read them up.. But your goal just seems to beat the drum so go on.. louder is not always right.
You clearly need some medical help!.. I can understand man.. Its not your fault.. may be ur Karma lol!
Holydesk 2 years ago
"Those history books are published pretty recentl."
Are u for real? Fine, tell me which year were they published in? Books from 1975 is the only historical source you have to prove your illogical claims.
And btw, the historical book u cited (from 1975) only claims 2 disprove the events of mahabharata, but that didn't disprove the dates of upanishads. So atman, karma, moksha, reincarnation, were all concepts mentioned in upanishads way before jainist texts. NOW DISPROVE THIS if u r man enough
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
Man enough? You really need some medical help dude.. I
ts a history book published by NCERT school board which is controlled by indian government..
you need to understand what you are talking.
Holydesk 2 years ago
You cant talk shit and ask ppl to disprove you..
Karma is sanskrit word which means verb or doing.
Going by that argument even christinaity and every other religion has karma because it says the sinner has to redeem.
Yes hinduism have mentioned effects karma but is like Paapa and Punya not in the sense how it mentioned in buddhist or jain texts
Holydesk 2 years ago
And you still didn't give me the link to the dates of Bgita from brittanica.
Plz if you r not gonna provide me the links or quotes, don't waste my time. I don't want to take up too much of your nursery rhyme sessions either
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
Here is a video for you, enjoy!
/watch?v=WSdWCtn8oko
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
I am citing this from history books..
"the Class 11 book Ancient India History, written by Prof. Ram Sharan Sharma, discards the presence of Lord Krishna during the Mahabharata. The book says, "Although Krishna plays an important role in the Mahabharata, inscriptions and sculptural pieces found in Mathura dating back to 200 BC and 300 AD do not attest to his presence. Because of this, ideas of an epic age based on the Ramayana and Mahabharata have to be discarded."
Holydesk 3 years ago
I am surprised by your naivety.
I never told Jainism is older than Hinduism. Yes I did tell karma is not a hindu concept. You who argued that it by citing that it appeared in bhagavad gita. For which i replied that there is no known proof of Mahabhartha happening or Sri krishna ever walking on this earth. historically, Mahabharatha is a epic written in Post AD (5 AD or should i say 5th century AD for the naive's)period much after jainism and buddhism came in to prominence.
Holydesk 3 years ago
Now you are going to cite excavation in bay of Bengal which are believed to be remains of Dwarka. That still does not prove Mahabharata ever happened. In fact karma is not discussed in any of the Vedas. It is discussed in Upanishads but not in first 2 that were written in BC periods.
So neither i Lied nor i am taking back any of argument but your fascist beliefs have blinded you and dont seem to understand what you are arguing for.
Holydesk 3 years ago
btw, where in jainsism do they mention Karma??
You have to give me direct verses from scritpures, just like I've given you. Prove to me.
Even if it does mention karma, it still doesn't mean it is a jainst concept, bcuz bhagavad-gita was compiled long before Jainist texts.
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
"In fact karma is not discussed in any of the Vedas."
The point is not whether karma is discussed in the vedas or not, the actual question should be, is the karma mentioned in hindu texts before jainism texts(b4 2nd century BCE)?
And the answer is obviously yes. I've given you accurate dates, and given you direct verses from upanishads to show Atman is a hindu concept, and so far you haven't shown any.
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
"Now you are going to cite excavation in bay of Bengal which are believed to be remains of Dwarka. That still does not prove Mahabharata ever happened."
Y not?
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
"I am surprised by your naivety."
naive? I'm not the 28-yr old who listens to nursery rhymes, it sure tells who is naive
Bhagavad-gita according to expert-approved resources was completed in 5th century BCE, 3 centuries before jainist texts Jainism's first text was completed in 2nd Century BCE.
THIS IS A FACT!
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
"Mahabharatha is a epic written in Post AD"
YOU ARE ONE BIG LIAR!!
The mahabharata contains about 18 chapters, and was composed over a 1300yr span period, starting from 9th century BCE to 5th century AD.
Bhagavad-gita is a section from chapter bhisma parva, which is chapter 6 of mahabharata
BUT Bhagavad-gita was completed in 5th or 6th century BCE, 3 centuries before the first jainist text.
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
".....much after jainism and buddhism came in to prominence."
I'm really surprised by your ignorance
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
I am surprised by your arrogance considering how much you know about history.
Let me explain it one last time..
Karma is s core philosophy of shramana religions viz Jainism, Budhism and Ajivika there are few more you can google them..
You can refer to bhagvathi sutra for a start this is discourse between Mahavira and his disciple Gautama and explains about karma in detail.
Holydesk 3 years ago
I am citing this from history books..
"the Class 11 book Ancient India History, written by Prof. Ram Sharan Sharma, discards the presence of Lord Krishna during the Mahabharata. The book says, "Although Krishna plays an important role in the Mahabharata, inscriptions and sculptural pieces found in Mathura dating back to 200 BC and 300 AD do not attest to his presence. Because of this, ideas of an epic age based on the Ramayana and Mahabharata have to be discarded."
Holydesk 3 years ago
On Ayodhya, the book says, "Archaeological evidence should be considered far more important than long family trees given in the Puranas because Puranic tradition can be used to date Ram of Ayodhya to 2,000 BC, but diggings and extensive exploration in Ayodhya do not show any settlement of the time."
Holydesk 3 years ago
I am citing this from Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: "Bhagavadgita
(Sanskrit: "Song of God") One of the greatest of the Hindu scriptures, constituting part of the Mahabharata. It is written in the form of a dialogue between the warrior Prince Arjuna and the charioteer Krishna, an incarnation of Vishnu. It was probably composed in the 1st or 2nd century AD, later than much of the epic."
Holydesk 3 years ago
None of your arguments have turned out to be true. You have very little or no understanding history and you still seem to argue on wrong facts based on some findings from probably some dogmatic sites.. and above all you have guts to call me names... Next time you post something make sure they are based on facts atleast if not it should appeal to rationale. Not something like krishna was born on 32** whatever year.
Holydesk 3 years ago
Whats your point.. I never said that Jainism is older than hinduism. I just said the The epics Mahabharatha and Ramayana were composed post AD period Later then 4th Century AD. Reference: History books Ancient and Medival India, NCERT.
Yes the Jain scriptures were written much later but Mahavira was the person who reformed Jainism. What i meant was Tatvartha sutra is not the first literature in any case.
For your information only the upanishads have been writte over vast span of time.
Holydesk 3 years ago
"I never said that Jainism is older than hinduism."
You said, Jainism is the first to mention atman and karma while I quoted several verses from upanishads and bhagavad-gita which predate jainism, that talk explicitly about atman.
Thats where you have lied, saying that atman and karma are jainist concepts
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
Seeing all these dscussions about Jainism and Hinduism, as a Buddhist, I would like to add that early Buddhism has a lot of influence from Jainism. Buddhism follows the sramana tradition and not the brahmana tradition. It also uses many terms common to the Jains but not the Hindu like Arahant (arihant), Buddha, Jina to depict a perfected one. The term Buddha was actually used by the Jains first. It is only later that Buddhism received influence from the Hindus.
yunshen 3 years ago
"I would like to add that early Buddhism has a lot of influence from Jainism"
I don't think I agree with what you just said. Buddhism predates Jainism. The first texts of Jainism were compiled in 2nd century BCE, but buddha was from 5th century BCE.
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
You are incorrect. 2nd century was when tatvartha suthra compiled It is not the first Jainism literature by any means. Mahavira was born in 5BC and that is been historically documented. Parshvanath was born 150years before Mahavira.
Are you ingonarant are intentionally falsfying facts to further your prejudice.
Holydesk 3 years ago
"2nd century was when tatvartha suthra compiled It is not the first Jainism literature...Mahavira was born in 5BC"
I think you meant 5th CENTURY BCE, not 5BCE, this would be from 1st century BCE.
Anyway,
Mahavira is a human being, he is not a literature. The first literature of jainist tradition is compiled in 2nd century BCE, and this has been confirmed.
The upanishads were being complied around 2000 BCE to 1000 BCE, long before parshvanath.
This is a fact, whether you like it or not.
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
And for your information BC follow reverse chronology. 5 BC was before 2 BC.
Holydesk 3 years ago
"And for your information BC follow reverse chronology. 5 BC was before 2 BC."
I know that. You are the one who is confused, 5BC or 2BC is from first century BCE, but parshavanth was from 592 BCE, so that would actually make it 6th century BCE
0-100 BCE -first century BCE
100-200 BCE - second Century BCE
200-300 BCE - third century and so on
.....
600 - 500 BCE - sixth century BCE
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
"but parshavanth was from 592 BCE"
*I meant Mahavira was from 592 BCE, not parshavanth
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
Mahvira was around 5 BC.. It was implied... 5BC is 5the century BC. Pls stop being naive.. put on some arguments that does both of us some good in our understanding history. otherwise its just waste of time.
Holydesk 3 years ago
"Mahvira was around 5 BC.. It was implied... 5BC is 5the century BC. Pls stop being naive.."
You are such an uninformed arrogant piece of jain.
You are telling me that 5BCE and 5th century BCE has no difference??
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
5BC and 5th century BC is different but it is understood nobody talks about precise year in the historical context. it is always the century.. And for my convenience i ignored the word century. The buddhist scriptures talks about Jainism and Mahavira in particular. now you cannot argue falsify that. Read some literature before arguing it will do you good.
Holydesk 3 years ago
Whoa whoa.. What are you talking about??.. I said i agreed with most of the core belifs of jainism and it is core Jainist philoshopy that every thing should be supported by reason. I didnt say anything about vedas here. dint I say anything ill about hinduism either if you read my comments properly.
Holydesk 3 years ago
BTW i said it was my belief that to understand a religion one should read thro the scriptures.. Yes i read herman jacobi's veda to the extent i could. I read Jain agams translation too. Read Jinasena's mahapurana and Sammana suttam if you want to understand jainism.
Holydesk 3 years ago
Jainism is fine except that the sadhus have now started keeping money indirectly by trusts managed by them.They have also started interfering in the affairs of trusts. they even claim share of moneyreceived as donation during their "chomasa" in upashrays & mandirs.
lamchee58 3 years ago
I have not heard about it myself.. but i think it is plausible. But I dont think sadhus reflect of what jainism is 100%. If you want to learn about any religion, the best way is to read the scriptures that form the fundamental philosophy and reason out yourself what the intent. I think the philsophies of jainism are rational and scientific. Now I dont agree with 100% of it. The thing that i like most is, as per Jainism, no truth can ever be devoid of logic.
Holydesk 3 years ago
Aryan Invasion theory, invented by max mueller (a BRITISH indologist) has been proven wrong completely after discovering huge amounts of archealogical evidence recently which push the dates of vedas back to 7000 BCE and mahabarata possibly around to 4000 or 3000 BCE
Besides, Sri Krishna was born around 3228 BCE who first taught Bhagavad-gita to Arjuna on the battlefield of kurukshetra, has talked about Karmic Philosophy way b4 jainism
The concept of Atman, and Moksha are influenced by Hindus
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
Please point me out the vedas that mentions atman and moksha you are mentioning here and i am happy to read. To say that there was sophitication of what mahabharatha and ramayana claims around 3000 4000 BC is oblivious. I dont have any facist idea about any religions point me to some genuine resources of you your claim and i will happily read thro it. On a differnt note i guess you should try herman jacobi's translations
Holydesk 3 years ago
"To say that there was sophitication of what mahabharatha and ramayana claims around 3000 4000 BC is oblivious."
I already told you this, Sri Krishna was born in 3228 BCE, he taught Bhagavad-Gita to Arjuna, and he mentions all the notions of moskha, karma and reincarnation
There are many verses in bhagavad-gita that talk about Moksha, Karma, and Reincarnation
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
What makes you so sure of the date.. Sri Krishna is a mythological figure there is no known proof of him ever walking on this earth. So you believe that Mahabharata happened for real?? Come on..
Holydesk 3 years ago
@Holydesk
I currently do not have any reference to prove about Sri Krishna. But from what I have heard (from the preachings of Jain saints), one day Sri Krishna and Neminath (22nd Thirtankar) had met, and even had conversation.
My point is Sri Krishna existed even in Jainism.
FYI:According to Jainism 'Rama' is god for them too.
Time period between each Thirtankar is in thousands of years. The great people I mentioned all come after 1st Thirtankar Adinath or Rishibdev.
abhijithda 2 years ago
Its true.. I agree Hinduism has been there much before jainism.. Even I heard about those claims. But I guess there is historical conatation for that.. Neither i believe in veracity in existence of first 22 thirthankaras completely. Only the existence of last 2 thirthankaras have been historically proved I believe. There are vague reference of existence of Adinath but nothing more than that.
Holydesk 2 years ago
hmm.. I didn't say anything about which religion existed first! :)
To prove it would take a lot of time...
Jains believe that there exists thousands of organisms in a drop of water... but the scientific study isn't even close enough.. it will take a long time.
By the way... Bhahubali is the son of Adinath. And Mahaveer in one his previous lives, was a grandson of Adinath. That time he was called maricha, and he was going against the principles of Jainism. Thats a diff story! :)
abhijithda 2 years ago
You are welcome relif and I think finally we can have a lot more meaningful conversation:)
"Jains believe that there exists thousands of organisms in drop of water"
Isnt this already proved? microorganism do exist in water? which can be equated to one sensory organism ..
Holydesk 2 years ago
In reference to Bahubali:
Yes i have heard that story.. I think its part of mythology and does not fascinate me..
To be honest the thing I find interesting is the discussion of various ideas that was particulary happening in that period between the sharamana religions and sankya and vaisheshika school of thougts
Holydesk 2 years ago
"I think its part of mythology and does not fascinate me.."
So you would dismiss and neglect parts of jainsim that contradict your position in this debate and keep those that are in favor of your position?
You criticized hindu mythology regarding yama, chitra, why don't you equally criticize the jainist mythology parts?
You are clearly a hard-headed fundamentalist
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
Unlike you i dont have any fundamentalist approach to any religion even jainism. I will wait until those parts of jain mythology are proven by historical facts until that, it will not excite me..
The point is none of jain philosophy revolves around God/or any supernatural being. So if you take out mythology of thirthankara out nothing falls apart. The aguments posted are self sustained and have no bearing on existence of thirhankaras themselves.
now that is too rational for you to understand
Holydesk 2 years ago
So yama was mythology.. How about Bhrama, vishnu Shiv were they mythology too..
I am learnign some interesting from thing from you. Lets see,,,
-Vedas should not be quoted arguments as per you.
- Yama is mythology. but krishna is not
-As per you Encyclopedia cannot be trusted
- Caste system is good
- There were no animal sacrifices during yagnas and havans..
Holydesk 2 years ago
First of all, tell me why do you think caste system is bad? What made you believe that caste system is bad?
I'm not saying it is good or bad, i'm asking your views on it. Why do you think it is bad or evil?
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
"So if u take out mythology of thirthankara out nothing falls apart"
Thats exactly what Hinduism is all about. Hinduism is not about mythology. The essence of hinduism is centered on one all-pervading infinite being called Brahman. It is the source and end of all things. It is never been born nor will it ever die. It is beyond name and form and our individual minds cannot conceptualize or visualize the infinitude of the infinite being called Brahman
Even Quantum Physics are now confirming this
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
Thats a very paradoxical satement. Are you saying there is no mythology in hinduism?
Every religion has mythology it is integrated part of every religion. I guess the test is how much the fundamental doctrines depend on mythology :). Fortunately, per jainism any thing to be considered truth should either be established by logical reasoning or by experimentation.
Holydesk 2 years ago
I never belived in a personal god, nor will I ever believe in one. But if you actually understand BG, you will notice that the whole scripture is designed for people to attain moksha through the highest form of yoga called Bhakti. Bhakti yoga is one the easiest way to attain moksha. Hence, a personal god must be present for a devotee to meditate upon.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
Thats your opinion... If that helps in your spirtual quest that might be very well right for you.
hinduism is evolved over long period of time and understandbly there are different chain of thoughts/reasoning.
There are fundamental diffference between hindu thought and jain thougts. If you are interested more you should read this article
wapedia. mobi/en/Anekantavada
Holydesk 2 years ago
Here is something for you, I just learned this.
All the talk about moksha and karma in jainism is actually implanted in the tattvartha sutra, which according to a jainist website "..represents aphoristic text of Jain system. It must have been composed during 200-400 A.D."
This information is found in YOUR OWN religion's website jainaworld . com
And click "introduction to jainism" which is at the bottom
or
here is the direct link to it
jainworld . com / education / seniors/senles23 . htm
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
Hence Bhagavad-gita predated jainism in the ideas of karma and moksha.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
So it is now back to Gita from upanishads and vedas. But I am glad you recognize that there are different rationalization in hindu thoughts. Consider the historical context my friend things will make sense.
I have never seen you citing sankhya and vaisheshika thougts which are more interesting to me than the vedas itself. in fact if you research more on them then you will see my viewpoint. It was era when old dogmas were challenged and you see the beautiful synthesis of what we have today.
Holydesk 2 years ago
"All the talk about moksha and karma in jainism is actually implanted in the tattvartha sutra"
Yet another dogmatic claim?
I thought the recent comments very unlike you but old habits die hard?
You should read the whole article before making a call.
Holydesk 2 years ago
Even your religion mentions the existence of sri krisha.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
No wonder you are such an idiot.
Holydesk 2 years ago
".. I didn't say anything about which religion existed first!"
Thats already proven abhi. Of all the religions that exist today, Hindiusm predates them all.
btw, thx 4 the info about sri krishna and rama in jainist tradition.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
"Neither i believe in veracity in existence of first 22 thirthankaras completely."
Y? Is it b/c sri krishna was mentioned in one of those 22 thirthankaras?
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
Who said he is not till now
May be he will in next era
TJSKULL52 2 years ago
btw, i forgot to mention. That was the link u used to back up ur claim about BGita being written in 1th century AD?
if yes, waaaaw. The whole article is about 2 paragraphs long, and it says "bgita was PERHAPS written in 1st century AD"
This was fully based on blind speculation. Almost any other website you go to will give the date of Bgita to be around 5th-3rd Century BCE.
That was not a valid source, find some more.
DeepMeditation42 2 years ago
That was from britannica encyclopedia. For us sane people we think credibility is important. But cleary that will not impress you. As long as you can whip up some shit from some websites that gives you solace.
Holydesk 2 years ago
"..the best way is to read the scriptures..."
So you are saying, you read all 4 vedas (in sanskrit? or English?) and reasoned out everything and came to conclusion that they are illogical?
"I think the philsophies of jainism are rational and scientific.."
You THINK the philosphies of Jainsim are rational. You THINK, you don't even know
You are assuming, they may be, but they aren't so radically diff. from Hinduism. They don't say anything new, they repeats Hinduism, just like Buddhism did
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
Yes i think.. I don't believe in fascist idea about any religion.
How come you know that Jainism repeats what hinduism has to say. I will say no.
Whether you like it or not, Hinduism was about caste system, Sati system, human and animal sacrifices by bunch of yogis for their own good before Jainism and Buddhism came in to prominence. check your history books
Holydesk 3 years ago
"Hinduism was about caste system, Sati system, human and animal sacrifices by bunch of yogis for their own good before Jainism and Buddhism came in to prominence."
how funni, you said you are well knowledged with Hinduism and you talk all these nonsense, you obviously are a loon.
Caste system and sati was a culture-related practices, it had nothing to do with religion. Give me one verse in vedas or upanishads that talks about caste system or sati, one verse!
DeepMeditation42 3 years ago
You have obviously not read any hindu scriptures. have you read the classification of brahman and kshatriya, vaisya and shudra. Shudra being the legs of the society..
So before stooping to personal attacks get your facts right... I am not degrading hinduism neither I am also not saying that jainism is superior religion but i will not agree somebody smearing it with incorrect facts.
Holydesk 3 years ago