@Misducky03 She/hi say to him - that is special japanese position - look and hear a movie...and he just belive him...sad...he never love him really... just dream:(
@Lhetargija Yes I heard he (she) said that... but I still can´t understand how he (Jeremy Irons) didn´t realize something was wrong... I guess he (Jeremy Irons) thought it was because of her (his) culture that she acted strange and was so conservative...
@Misducky03 :D i think hi (Jeremy Irons) want dream...and she-hi give it to him...another things mean nothing:D an interesting exotics ... tea + new positions ... great ... Dream On!!!
The tragedy here is Rene's failure to love unconditionally. He never saw or loved Song Liling for the real person, beneath not only the robes, but underneath the camouflage of a gendered body, the mere clothes of the soul & not the soul itself. I am disappointed in Rene's short-sightedness. I understand why Song Liling cries in this scene. I want to be loved for my true self - who doesn't? The true self is sexless, genderless, colourless, race-less, body-less. The true self is spirit!!!
john lones most brillant transformation to the "butterfly" is when he is kneeling here and his voice and expression say it all, not in drag, he should have an oscar for this and iceman, i said it elsewhere but i think hes sexy and a brilliant actor
@mshayashi I story was promoted stated by the director "To show the power of Seduction"...stupid maybe but for a man to hold another man at his will with no brute force...come on now, thats some power there
Oh Boo Hoo. Song is really going to pull crying, huh? After the years of deceit/manipulation by a RED spy, forced homosexuality, Rene's very public humiliation and the complete destruction of Rene's world by losing his only love. All that "just because he was a man" stuff is pathetic. It's so much more than that. Rene probably would react the same if Song really was a woman though he wouldn't have to suffer the horrific embarrassment of not knowing his wife of many years was, in fact a man.
@MartiniShelby I totally understand his crying. He is a tragic figure too. What choices does he have with communist China after him for being a "feudal" artist? And along the way he starts to care a bit, unexpectedly. Now all is lost, and he is going back to the communists empty-handed and found out, and the man he had started to like is withdrawing from him, too (and I agree, not because he is a man), because he can no longer pretend that Song is his "butterfly". It's sad for both of them.
@rokoschnuckel You're right--what happened between Rene and Song degenerated into a real lose-lose disaster. My guess is Song felt pressured to testify against Rene.
As far as Rene goes, though, he felt short-changed because he fell in love with Song while Song was living as the woman he calls Butterfly, so that was what Rene knew and fell in love with. If Rene admitted to loving Song, his life and everything he thought he was and everything he thought he knew would go circling down the drain.
I previously been thought that john just portray wholely woman but in fact, he still a man disguise as woman in the film. He was 41 years old at that time but still look young. Miss his acting, he totally awesome in all kind of role.
so was Song all along acting as... well was he always on "Company Busines" or did he at any point care for Galimar. After the chinese government putting the guy in a political reeducation camp it seems hard he would be loyal to red china. In the play Galimar commits suicide Seppuku/Harakiri style while Song watches and smokes a cigarette...
I think deep down inside, he knew he was really a man and was too afraid to face the facts, which is why he never "explored" Song's body...the truth would have forced him to confront his sexuality. I've dealt with conflicted straight men my whole life...I completely understand where frenchie's coming from.
@hayamatsuka Yeah. Song's face does look feminine. But he's also 100% man from the neck down even though he's also a slimmer-built man. The prison van scene between Song and Rene is much more heartbreaking than arousing, more so after Song undresses until he is completely naked and Rene realizes how much damage has been done by all the deception.
Even though John Lone's character acted as a girl to fulfill his job, he most likely ended up loving Renee a little, even though he was a man...and he had all that thrown back in his face, just because he was a man. Don't they say 'love has no gender'? :(
@creamysodarevenge They do, but not everybody believes that credo "Love has no gender." But Rene thought that he had been sexually intimate with a real woman when he hooked up with Song Liling. Opera roles were (and still are in the Beijing Opera and Japan's kabuki theaters) played by men because when women took the stage, ugly riots always broke out because the fans always tried to hook up with the women who took the stage.
@creamysodarevenge yep..but if u're a Lesbian, u wanna fuck a girl and not a guy....thats like saying if u're straight n a guy pretending to be a girl asked u, a guy out, and later when u find our she is really a guy, u as a guy must return his feelings!!
@creamysodarevenge im sad to say, but he was french XD he knows the moves, i suppose that is quite shallow. love knows no bounds and is blind to gender. =)
i'm sure he saw John Lone's nuts
tonyghkbve 3 weeks ago
Haha. I stopped at the truck part. I bet that's going to be a very awkward conversation -.-
pokemongirl1996 4 weeks ago
sex never come from love sex come for your-selfs love:)
Lhetargija 1 month ago
I do not see anything right in comment - sex is sex and love is love
I can not imagine how you can sleep with person what you love...but its not about movie:)
Lhetargija 1 month ago
love and sex is 2 different things isnt?
Lhetargija 2 months ago
@Lhetargija Love does not come from sex, but rather sex from love. (but mostly they are seperate :P)
jencalo 2 months ago
but if seriously ... it is the big art - make another person fall in love
Lhetargija 2 months ago
I don´t understand how he didn´t knew he was a guy, even after they had sex?..
Misducky03 4 months ago
@Misducky03 She/hi say to him - that is special japanese position - look and hear a movie...and he just belive him...sad...he never love him really... just dream:(
Lhetargija 4 months ago
@Lhetargija Yes I heard he (she) said that... but I still can´t understand how he (Jeremy Irons) didn´t realize something was wrong... I guess he (Jeremy Irons) thought it was because of her (his) culture that she acted strange and was so conservative...
Misducky03 4 months ago
@Misducky03 :D i think hi (Jeremy Irons) want dream...and she-hi give it to him...another things mean nothing:D an interesting exotics ... tea + new positions ... great ... Dream On!!!
Lhetargija 2 months ago
Comment removed
Lhetargija 2 months ago
Did John Lone really do that nude scene or was it a double?
theatergeek82 6 months ago
The tragedy here is Rene's failure to love unconditionally. He never saw or loved Song Liling for the real person, beneath not only the robes, but underneath the camouflage of a gendered body, the mere clothes of the soul & not the soul itself. I am disappointed in Rene's short-sightedness. I understand why Song Liling cries in this scene. I want to be loved for my true self - who doesn't? The true self is sexless, genderless, colourless, race-less, body-less. The true self is spirit!!!
sikhayar 6 months ago
john lones most brillant transformation to the "butterfly" is when he is kneeling here and his voice and expression say it all, not in drag, he should have an oscar for this and iceman, i said it elsewhere but i think hes sexy and a brilliant actor
Dravenswraith 7 months ago
oh my.... hahah, isnt he worried that when they reach where ever their headed too, he'll be found naked? :p
ycrmn 8 months ago
I can't find part 11! :(
CulkProductions 10 months ago
Comment removed
mshayashi 1 year ago
@mshayashi I story was promoted stated by the director "To show the power of Seduction"...stupid maybe but for a man to hold another man at his will with no brute force...come on now, thats some power there
davidgsr2k 11 months ago
Oh Boo Hoo. Song is really going to pull crying, huh? After the years of deceit/manipulation by a RED spy, forced homosexuality, Rene's very public humiliation and the complete destruction of Rene's world by losing his only love. All that "just because he was a man" stuff is pathetic. It's so much more than that. Rene probably would react the same if Song really was a woman though he wouldn't have to suffer the horrific embarrassment of not knowing his wife of many years was, in fact a man.
MartiniShelby 1 year ago
@MartiniShelby I totally understand his crying. He is a tragic figure too. What choices does he have with communist China after him for being a "feudal" artist? And along the way he starts to care a bit, unexpectedly. Now all is lost, and he is going back to the communists empty-handed and found out, and the man he had started to like is withdrawing from him, too (and I agree, not because he is a man), because he can no longer pretend that Song is his "butterfly". It's sad for both of them.
rokoschnuckel 1 year ago
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@rokoschnuckel You're right--what happened between Rene and Song degenerated into a real lose-lose disaster. My guess is Song felt pressured to testify against Rene.
As far as Rene goes, though, he felt short-changed because he fell in love with Song while Song was living as the woman he calls Butterfly, so that was what Rene knew and fell in love with. If Rene admitted to loving Song, his life and everything he thought he was and everything he thought he knew would go circling down the drain.
SaintHangman 11 months ago
@MartiniShelby : forced homosexuality? i think he enjoyed it ;-)
drkelpful 1 year ago
I previously been thought that john just portray wholely woman but in fact, he still a man disguise as woman in the film. He was 41 years old at that time but still look young. Miss his acting, he totally awesome in all kind of role.
samnangbest 1 year ago 3
dang looks like reality is a slap in the face for this guy
joshuaspolar 1 year ago 3
so was Song all along acting as... well was he always on "Company Busines" or did he at any point care for Galimar. After the chinese government putting the guy in a political reeducation camp it seems hard he would be loyal to red china. In the play Galimar commits suicide Seppuku/Harakiri style while Song watches and smokes a cigarette...
bigtimepimpin666 2 years ago
i still think John Lone looks better as a man...and he's a handsome man.
craze4bl 2 years ago 13
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@craze4bl Agreed. John Lone looks okay as a woman, but he definitely looks better as a man than he does as a woman.
SaintHangman 1 year ago 4
damn nice ass, better than mine
cosmeticnerd 2 years ago 5
Great movie thanks for sharing.
Kikii007 2 years ago
Is it wrong that i think John Lone is so hawt in that suit? mmmm....yummmy..
pepper3721 2 years ago 8
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@pepper3721 No, it's not wrong at all. I agree with you. John Lone looks amazing in that suit.
SaintHangman 1 year ago 3
@pepper3721 nope, he is hot without the suit, too. Hell, he is even hot in drag.
rokoschnuckel 1 year ago
I think deep down inside, he knew he was really a man and was too afraid to face the facts, which is why he never "explored" Song's body...the truth would have forced him to confront his sexuality. I've dealt with conflicted straight men my whole life...I completely understand where frenchie's coming from.
Diosafied 2 years ago 2
Best part of the movie. Somehow really touching and arousing.
LuwBren 2 years ago 12
I think they are both utterly in love with each other but too hurt and selfish to admit.
kaltas7 2 years ago 15
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bunnysurfer26 2 years ago
his face is still quite feminin
hayamatsuka 2 years ago 8
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@hayamatsuka Yeah. Song's face does look feminine. But he's also 100% man from the neck down even though he's also a slimmer-built man. The prison van scene between Song and Rene is much more heartbreaking than arousing, more so after Song undresses until he is completely naked and Rene realizes how much damage has been done by all the deception.
SaintHangman 1 year ago 3
Even though John Lone's character acted as a girl to fulfill his job, he most likely ended up loving Renee a little, even though he was a man...and he had all that thrown back in his face, just because he was a man. Don't they say 'love has no gender'? :(
creamysodarevenge 2 years ago 40
Well, some love is based on gender. At 8:55, Renee says that he was a man who loved a woman. Some people do have a preference. ;)
80stimeagain 2 years ago 3
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@creamysodarevenge They do, but not everybody believes that credo "Love has no gender." But Rene thought that he had been sexually intimate with a real woman when he hooked up with Song Liling. Opera roles were (and still are in the Beijing Opera and Japan's kabuki theaters) played by men because when women took the stage, ugly riots always broke out because the fans always tried to hook up with the women who took the stage.
SaintHangman 1 year ago 4
@creamysodarevenge the problem is the deception, the lie... not the gender.
0Peluche 1 year ago
@creamysodarevenge shut up fag
davidgsr2k 11 months ago
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@davidgsr2k You're a homophobic jackoff!
SaintHangman 11 months ago
@creamysodarevenge yep..but if u're a Lesbian, u wanna fuck a girl and not a guy....thats like saying if u're straight n a guy pretending to be a girl asked u, a guy out, and later when u find our she is really a guy, u as a guy must return his feelings!!
maryray10 6 months ago
@creamysodarevenge im sad to say, but he was french XD he knows the moves, i suppose that is quite shallow. love knows no bounds and is blind to gender. =)
xStrangersLullaby 1 month ago
John Lone does such a good job playing with gender roles in the truck scene. I love how he can switch from masculine to feminine with ease.
PickleFritter 2 years ago 14
So is the spy actually gay...
kbundy023 2 years ago 3
There's something arousing about this movie especially in the van scene when John Lone reveals his true indentity.
newfful 2 years ago 5
John Lone is soooo sexy.
Trinitymurder 2 years ago 38
i kept askin myself does this make renee bisexual or straight? he never knew that his butterfly was a man all along til now.
655 i am not just a man
(oh shit that phrase did it lol lol)
phdseuss 2 years ago 6
he still looks like a girl with all thelong hair off
hayamatsuka 2 years ago 7
and still not bad lookin (as a man)
phdseuss 2 years ago 6
This part is shocking and truly touching!!...
hjsmalie 2 years ago 11
:O !!!!
ilovelego123 3 years ago