Homosexual activists understand the power of words.
Please visit my channel to watch a one-minute video clip in which popular atheist author Richard Dawkins admits that homosexual activists "hijacked the word 'gay'".
The word "homosexual" is more appropriate and accurate because it, unlike the word "gay", actually describes the behavior/attraction/relationship being discussed.
The word "gay" helps homosexual activists push their agenda.
"I wonder if such a person will ever change his mind if he's actually willing to fight for equality for gay people."
I think one can assert the legal right for homosexual, athiest, or non Christian without compromising his/her spiritual values. In fact, by such action, one could be upholding one of the highest of Christian values which is the Golden Rule.
I wonder if such a person will ever change his mind if he's actually willing to fight for equality for gay people. I really don't know how you can hold both views at once, though.
One of the things I most respect and admire about Tony Campolo is that eventhough he believes same gender relationships are sinful, he has indeed admitted to the possibility of being mistaken and is respectful and understanding of those who's views do not match his own, one of whom happens to be his own wife.
IF you are having problems about the (sins of sexual man) you need to listen to Sy Rogers..the best speaker , preacher on the subject.. Some of you that are quick to judge the sin life of someone should think..If they aren't saved, it's unbelief that sends them to hell...not their sin, for God so Loved the WORLD....that's what Jesus is all about folks
@lazerholt Whoever as my commandments and obeys them, he is the one who loves me... The bible says over and over and over and over ..... that belief and obedience are inextricably linked.
well said- I have previously recommended the Youtube debate with Dr. Michael Brown and Harry Knox. Dr. Brown does an outstanding,unassailable job of explicating and expounding the underlying judeo/christian ethical understanding of sexuality in God's view. Every one would do themselves a great favor listening to the deep wisdom of this man. The urgency of the Apostle Paul's warning in I Cor 6 "Not to be deceived..." (speaking to the brethren) makes sense because of those who call sin "love"
@clay56 In light of the impending return of Jesus for His bride, the church through the rapture, you should quickly repent of your sin before it is too late. Once Jesus has raptured His church, the only remaining way into the kingdom of heaven through Jesus is by matyrdom for His cause during the time of the Great Tribulation. Should you be left behind and don't choose to take the mark of the beast (the Antichrist), the bible says you will not be able to buy or sell, meaning you will starve.
"In light of the impending return of Jesus for His bride, the church through the rapture, you should quickly repent of your sin before it is too late."
Certainly, we're all going to meet Him wheather in this life or the next. I for one am rather optimistic about it since forgiveness is in reach for whichever one of us is wrong (assuming EITHER of us is right) when we simply ask it for ourselves and EACH OTHER.
@clay56 You shouldn't delude yourself & others that while you are for unrepentant homosexuality that you are in the good books of God. Haven't you taken note what 1 Corinthians 6:9 says in the bible?...." Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, nor thieves, etc...will inherit the kingdom of God." You have been deceived.
"Haven't you taken note what 1 Corinthians 6:9 says in the bible?...."
Yes, and I keep talking about a little footnote from the very Bible you yourself cite yet apparently ignore. But that's what too many do when they pick and choose their way through the Bible to suit their OWN preferences rather than try to understand and learn our Lord's will.
"You and shieldff have placed your homosexual lifestyle above plain understanding of English, plain logic and above the authority of the word of God,..."
I wonder about your own literacy since in spite of my recent response to this accusation, you still presume a certain "lifestyle" for me and now another poster which is a HUGE irony since shields SHARES your view of same gender relationships. Are you sure illiteracy IS an advantage especially when it causes you to miss a Biblical footnote?
"Both of you need help and should go ask Tony Campolo if 1 Corinthians 6:9 says homosexuality and sodomy is sin."
Whatever Tony Campolo may think about 1 Cor. and other verses, he's made the concession that he could be incorrect about it since ONLY our Lord can know it's meaning to it's fullest, most correct extent. Your trying to saddle your view with His will doesn't make the two one and the same.
"If you cannot get the gist of this simple message, then the illiterate people are better off than you & clay56..."
That's because It's easier to get the "illiterate" to think what you'd have them think. It's why it's important to urge those new to Christianity to take the time they need to listen, pray, read, and think in order to determine at some point in our Lord's will ultimately for themselves as part of having that VITAL relationship with Him... (Cont.)
@shieldsff You are shifting the focus. 1 Corinthians says it clearly...fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, sodomites etc...will not inherit the kingdom of God. If you cannot get the gist of this simple message, then the illiterate people are better off than you & clay56 because when read to them, they fully understand that all these unrepentant sinners are going to hell. You are another "truth-bender" like clay56 who abuse the word of God shamelessly.
"In making your comments, you have conveniently forget that the only standard of what is acceptable in the sight of God is His word itself, the bible and never any man's opinion."
An ironic statement since it's "man" who has canonized, copied, printed, translated, and interpeted the Bible all in our Lord's name. Popularly held interpetations could be popularly held misconceptions since "man" is anything but perfect which is why scriptural interpetation is reviewed from one era to the next.
"And if you cannot even admit to understanding 1 Corinthians 6:9..."
The very printers of the New KJV specified prostitution in relation to the word "homosexual" from the very Bible you yourself cited. Did they not understand either? It's probably (MUCH) more accurate to say neither I nor apparently the translators of the NKJV share YOUR personal understanding of the verse.
@clay56 People like your type are " truth-benders" who will bend the truth of the word of God to justify your sinful lifestyle. On one hand , you pretend to care about the bible but in reality you couldn't care two hoots about its truth as long you get to twist and bend its meaning to suit your sinful purpose. I have more respect for Satan worshippers than for people like you ; at least they do not deceive themselves and openly declare that their lord is the devil himself. You are self deluded.
"People like your type are " truth-benders" who will bend the truth of the word of God to justify your sinful lifestyle."
I don't agree with your view which despite what you'd have others believe is again NOT neccessarily or entirely our Lord's will.
"On one hand , you pretend to care about the bible but in reality you couldn't care two hoots about its truth as long you get to twist and bend its meaning to suit your sinful purpose."
The accusation of "twisting" or "bending" is... (Cont.)
The traditional viewpoint is that the Torah mentions homosexuality twice in the book of Leviticus (JPS): Lev.18,22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination.
Lev.20,13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
No human can on one hand advocate the practice of homosexuality by saying people should observe the golden rule of loving others like ourselves, and on the other hand, negate the decree of God that homosexuality is a sin. Tony Campolo in trying to do that, has made a spiritual fool of himself here. The bible is clear that we are to love all others including unrepentant homosexuals but when it comes to their unrepentant sin, we have to tell them it is taking them to hell as the bible says.
"The bible is clear that we are to love all others including unrepentant homosexuals but when it comes to their unrepentant sin, we have to tell them it is taking them to hell as the bible says."
Since the Bible does not speak to all same gender relationships, not the least of which is marriage, such a statement is presumption on our Lord's part. And I am no more prayerful for the non-Christian, agnostic or athiest than I am the fellow Christian who second guesses our Lord on ultimate judgement.
@clay56 You are being deluded in your comments because in the first place, there is no such thing as "same gender relationships" in the bible except for homosexuality, which has already been defined sin & abomination.
"You are being deluded in your comments because in the first place, there is no such thing as "same gender relationships" in the bible..."
That's simply re-stating that the Bible does not speak to all types same gender relationships. It does not make the distinction between monogamous, committed same gender marriage and an act with a prostitute. So the terms "sin" and "abomination" in application to ALL such relationships would indeed be a personal presumption on the part of the reader.
@clay56 You are in denial and in rebellion because you have denied what God told in Moses in Leviticus 18:22, that is...." Thous shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind : it is abomination. " which simply means homosexuality is not just sin before God's eyes, it is also an abomination (something greatly detestable to God). Even if you can tear out this page from all the bibles in the world, you cannot deny that God has already spoken on this matter.
"You are in denial and in rebellion because you have denied what God told in Moses in Leviticus 18:22,.."
Starting up with the "denial" posts again? :)
The term "abomination" also described wearing clothing of two different fabrics and sewing a field with two different crops (Lev. 19-19). Other parts of Mosaic Law include the "sin" of a woman's grabbing her attacker by the groin (Deut. 25:11-12) along with a virgin's having to marry the man who rapes and impregnates her as commanded... (Cont.)
@clay56 You have misunderstood the teachngs of the bible. The Mosaic Law consisting of civil, ceremonial and moral laws were given by God specifically to the Israelites of the Old Testament. When Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, He fulfilled all the requirements of the Law and is the end of the Law. However the moral laws of God are universal and remains applicable to all mankind of all eras, for e.g. not to commit murder, adultery, homosexuality etc.....cont'd.
"The Mosaic Law consisting of civil, ceremonial and moral laws were given by God specifically to the Israelites of the Old Testament."
Since these terms are not Biblically used, either can and often have been exploited to subjectively "explain" why some laws should be retained and others shouldn't.
"However the moral laws of God are universal and remains applicable to all mankind of all eras,"
One could have explained the "morality" of having a virgin marry the man who raped and... (Cont.)
"...Sadly used by those wanting others to see their view as NOTHING other than our Lord's will when they are met dissenting beliefs.
I can only guess and pray your statement about having "more respect for Satan worshipers" than other Christians who differ with your personal view of our Lord's will was made in a moment of haste, anger and/or frustration. For such an attitude all too likely works more in your disfavor rather than the Christians to whom you're referring.
@clay56 Believers of Christ are no longer under the Old Covenant but the New Covenant in Christ. They observe the New Testament (NT) teachings. That homosexuality was considered a sin and an abomination by God and is still so under the New Covenant, can clearly be seen in the NT verse 1 Corinthians 6:9 that says...." Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, nor thieves, etc...will inherit the kingdom of God, meaning they are going to hell.
"Believers of Christ are no longer under the Old Covenant but the New Covenant in Christ."
Who said nothing about homosexuality. Too many gay Christian opponents try to exploit His teachings for their own anti gay positions to (falsely) state He did, potentially bringing up problems between themselves and our Lord regarding Matt. 7:1-2 as well as the Nineth Commandment which Christ upheld in Matt. 19:18.
"1 Corinthians 6:9..."
The part of which many believe refer to homosexuals... (Cont.)
@clay56 A wise man once said that a little knowledge about something is dangerous because you do not understand the whole picture & therefore will go into error. That's precisely what you have fallen into. You think you know what the bible teaches when in reality you don't. You only know the bits and pieces of it & don't understand how all the teachings of the bible come together in harmony. Also your intent in using bible verses is just to justify your sinful lifestyle, not in seeking truth.
...Impregnated her, arguing the need for the child to have a father. The prohibition against wearing clothing of two different fabrics as well as sowing a field with two different seeds has also been argued morally. The use of the terms simply emphasizes the simple fact that Mosaic Law is a highly questionable OVERALL moral guide for today's Christians.
...In Deut. 22:28-29. Many use Lev.18:22 perhaps more than any other Bible verse to justify their own personal disgust and intolerance while all TOO conveniently overlooking other Mosaic Laws that are considered morally uphorrid by most Christians now. in so doing, they place themselves in their OWN denial. Otherwise they would be able to provide SOLID explanations as to why Mosaic Law prohibiting homosexuality still applies and not the others
...Revolves around two Greek terms, the meaning of which Paul did not specify or explain which is most likely why they have been debated for MANY centuries. The New KJV from which you quote corrects the word "homosexual" footnoting it with the word "catamite" (young juvenile prostitute). Such a person reflects all homosexuals as well as the past life of the woman who bathed Christ's feet with her tears reflected all heterosexuals. I myself would be very prayerful of anyone... (Cont.)
You 'proudly' mention [the] 'gay christian movement (even though God strongly condemns & resists the proud). Could you clarify that? Where in the Bible is it taught that Christians ought to distinguish themselves or establish their identity in Christ Jesus predicated on sexuality? In fact, we are told there is only one Lord, one faith & one baptism into the body of Christ Jesus. Is it not possible that U R deceived ? Does the Bible encourage proud adulterers, thieves, pedophiles& drunkards too
Same sex marriage is a "cut and dry" "no brainer"! God's word is emphatically clear about this. This is a settled issue for all TRUE christians! Next topic please.
"Same sex marriage is a "cut and dry" "no brainer"! God's word is emphatically clear about this."
The Bible speaks of homosexuality almost entirely in terms of prostitution and pegan orgy. There is no mention of same gender marriage. Christians who believe our Lord condemns it may need to re-check the verses they think uphold this view.
...Higher than those of Abraham's or Moses'. And I MAY take the animal issue a bit more seriously if and when our Lord sees fit to grant animals with the cognitive capacity to enter into contracts that would allow them to open a bank account, purchase property and EVEN enter a legal marriage. 'Til then. all of this, especially the beastiality part is simply a fear/smear tactic that been used UNsuccessfully over time namely in the case of interracial marriage. But there is also... (Cont.)
@clay56 - if and when our Lord sees fit to grant animals with the cognitive capacity
Ok, like that would really even matter to the **perverts** engaged in that activity, right ?
Sadly, you refuse to acknowledge the depths of depravity to which the sin-filled souls of some men are able to reach. It's not a tactic, while the practice still, fortunately, is largely considered taboo, no doubt some group will emerge seeking to mainstream its acceptance ( like the unthinkable existence of NABMLA)
"Same sex marriage is a "cut and dry" "no brainer"! God's word is emphatically clear about this."
The Bible speaks of homosexuality almost entirely in terms of prostitution and pegan orgy. There is no mention of same gender marriage. Christians who believe our Lord condemns it may need to re-check the verses they think uphold this view
... The other side to this issue. If same gender marriage is formally banned nationwide for Biblical reasons, why then should women keep their places in authority since it is expressly forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:11-15 as is allowing a woman to speak in church (1 Cor.14:34-37). Not that I think it is likely it would happen, only slightly if any more likely than legalized polagomy or beastiality, but I just don't believe the far right would stop if it got it's way on ANY one particular issue.
Tony is really outstanding for his opinion that he states. This" hate the sin love the sinner", doesn't fly because homosexuality is an orientation -its NOT just a sex act, thats what so many people dont understand. To hate sin is really hating the person. Gays were once pursecuted because of there out of control sexual behavior. Now all these years later Gays want to be Christians,have children/family, settle down, be monagamous/married -and still its not good enough for society! Its not fair!
While saying the practice of homosexuality as sin, Tony has also bent over backwards to accomodate homosexuals by saying " I will for you the same rights that I enjoy as a heterosexual " which is actually saying giving them their rights to same sex marriage. And WHAT ! Encouraging them in their sin? The error of Tony Campolo is that he speaks different things to different people so as to befriend them, while the word of God speaks only ONE message to all people. Tony is doing double-speak.
"While saying the practice of homosexuality as sin, Tony has also bent over backwards to accomodate homosexuals by saying " I will for you the same rights that I enjoy as a heterosexual " which is actually saying giving them their rights to same sex marriage. And WHAT ! Encouraging them in their sin?"
I suppose it's how he sees the Golden Rule. If legal marriage is refused STRICTLY on the basis of personal faith, it would have to be denied to athiests, agnostics and other non-Christians.
@clay56 You don't have a clear understanding of what the bible teaches as a whole. Of course the golden rule of " loving your neighbour as yourself " applies to every believer BUT this single rule doesn't make null and void all the other commandments of God such as not to remain in sin and love one's sin in an unrepentant manner. Making a warped interpretation of the golden rule to encourage others in their sin is wrong in God's sight, and the person doing so will be accountable to God.
"You don't have a clear understanding of what the bible teaches as a whole."
Such is a bit presumptuous as far as the "whole" since all you know is that I don't agree with you on this one issue as to wheather or not all same gender relationships are sin.
"Making a warped interpretation of the golden rule to encourage others in their sin is wrong in God's sight,..."
I don't consider recognizing the marriage of non-Christians or Christians who don't see everything as I do "warped."
@clay56 It is amazing you cannot see the simple connection between homosexual sin and same gender marriage. Any other person with a reasonable level of intellect can see that same gender marriage (SGM) is an " offspring" of homosexual behaviour which is sin in God's eyes. But then again, it's not that you don't understand but the fact is you are in denial. Even non-christians marry in accordance to God's ordinance. It is homosexual behaviour that is an abomination to Him & similarly SGM
"It is amazing you cannot see the simple connection between homosexual sin and same gender marriage."
I don't agree with the personal conclusion you yourself have drawn. The NT calls all forms of sexual intimacy sin, except within the boundaries of hetero marriage. Concluding such advocacy for one orientation means the other MUST be devinely prohibited simply for lack of mention is presuming too much on our Lord's behalf. And non-Christians marry in accordance to CIVIL ordinances.
@clay56 Same gender marriage is not mentioned in the bible because there is no such thing in the bible. Homosexuals created it to get formal recognition from society, it was never created or intended by God. What homosexuals call "same gender marriage" , is really based on a homosexual relationship, which has already been defined as sin by the bible. So it is not presumption on my part, but denial of this biblical fact on your part. Non-christian marriage is heterosexual, thus it is of God.
"Same gender marriage is not mentioned in the bible because there is no such thing in the bible."
An argument could be made against air travel or open heart surgery simply because these things didn't exist in Biblical times. Stating they like SG marriage are devinely forbidden on such grounds is again presuming too much on our Lord's behalf.
@clay56 Air travel and heart surgery didn't exist in biblical times and there is nothing morally wrong for a person to engage in such activities. Same gender marriage (SGM) may not have been mentioned in biblical times but the homosexual activity that is part of SGM has already been condemned as sin and an abomination since the Old Testament. It doesn't take a genius to understand that but the homosexual has already decided to be in denial in order to self-justify their sinful activity.
"Same gender marriage (SGM) may not have been mentioned in biblical times but the homosexual activity that is part of SGM has already been condemned as sin ..."
Again, any sexual intimacy outside marriage is considered sin. This is the part you apparently keep ignoring when you evidently presume the advocacy of marriage for one orientation must mean the prohibition of the other. Your stating SG marriage is impossible without Biblical support places you in your own "denial."
@clay56 While you are right in saying any sexual intimacy outside marriage such as fornication & adultery is sin, you dare not admit that the bible calls out the act of homosexuality as sin regardless of whether it happened in or outside marriage. And that is the huge elephant in the room which you hope not to see by constantly repeating the falsehood that homosexuality in a marriage is acceptable to God. In short you have distorted the word of God which is blasphemy.
"While you are right in saying any sexual intimacy outside marriage such as fornication & adultery is sin, you dare not admit that the bible calls out the act of homosexuality as sin regardless of whether it happened in or outside marriage."
I say that again since the Bible condemns all sexual intimacy outside marriage, it is presumptuous to say the advocacy of marriage for one orientation must mean the other is forbidden. You have stated your personal belief as if it were our... (Cont.)
,,,Lord's will WITHOUT documentation. You're not the only one to do so. But it is probably BECAUSE of the lack of Biblical reference rather than in spite of it that many feel they must SO emphatically deny any and all possibility of same gender marriage on our Lord's behalf to draw attention away from the fact there is nothing actually written to justify what is NO more than their OWN personal belief.
Well then another question to the open-minded poster:how does it HARM "YOUR marriage" if some wanted even more legal marriage options with,say, their siblings, or their children,or to have polygamous marriages, or "marry" animals or consenting 9 years old (it's alleged Muhammad did).How can U object?
Answer: It doesn't ! Obviously, though society ( via laws) has rights to establish rules & control lives & restrict choices - this is what is meant by 'institution' -Conditioned freedom under law.
"...how does it HARM "YOUR marriage" if some wanted even more legal marriage options with,say, their siblings, or their children,or to have polygamous marriages,"
Interestingly enough, the NT confined only priest and bishops to monogamy (1Tim. 3:2/12). Our Lord authorized an incest based marriage in the case of Abraham and Sarah in Gen. (20:12) and (maybe) Moses' parents in Ex. 6:20. I don't THINK Christ would have approved of incest or polygamy since His time's population was much... (Cont.)
-In light of the fact that there are clear principals of exegesis which emphasize the role of theme& context, it's shocking you insist on this. It's clear from the words of the Lord Jesus HImself that the creation order was & is the uniting of man & female- that it is sinful & ungodly to agitate otherwise.This theme is established in the genesis account of the male/female relationship and later re- inforced by Jesus who also condemns divorce. Nowhere are men EVER called 'Echad'
The C.D.C. (The center for disease control) 1. 85% of all male sexual transmitted aids cases are from homosexual contact. 2. Homosexual men have an H.I.V. Infection rate 60 times higher than general public. 3. 60% of all syphilis cases from homosexual & bisexual men. 4. The average life expectancy for a homosexual is 46yrs of age. It's wise & loving to oppose a man because of his destructive behavior. Others call it...intolerant!
@clay56 "Interestingly enough, the NT confined only priest and bishops to monogamy (1Tim. 3:2/12). Our Lord authorized an incest based marriage in the case of Abraham and Sarah" hey "clay"- thank for commenting. Alright, I do appreciate your time and all. At this point i think I understand exactly where you're coming from and I wish you Godspeed in your journey.
@clay56 -"Concluding such advocacy for one orientation means the other MUST be devinely prohibited simply for lack of mention is presuming too much"
Sure, maybe,but how about the far more reasonable position that speaking to fellow jews, it was clearly absurd & unnecessary to raise the common moral censures against homosexualism anymore then say the issue of marrying one's sheep or goat" I mean, I am just sayin' that's how obvious it would have been to the moral sensibilities of Jews then
"...it was clearly absurd & unnecessary to raise the common moral censures against homosexualism anymore then say the issue of marrying one's sheep or goat..."
The two aren't comparable. People can give consent which is vital in a marriage, animals can't. Ironically, If you wanted to remove consent as an issue against beastiality, then you would clear the way for something FAR more comparable to hetero marriage in Biblical days when consent was not an issue for women.
Tonly Campolo is a feel-good fundamentalist: he feels good that he pretends to advocate justice for gay people while at the very same time he bashes gay people with the Bible. He is a contemptible, double-talking, mealy-mouthed fake who gives his fellow fundamentalists cover to keep their hate alive as long as they can pretend that it's compassion.
One admirable aspect about Tony Campolo is that while he believes that homosexuals are called to celebacy, he shows a level of understanding and respect towards other Christians who feel differently.
(IMHO) It's a goal in which all Christians should attempt to strive. :)
@clay56 What's admirable about Tony Campolo pretending to know how God wants other people to live their lives? What is he, God's information conduit? He has no standing to make such pronouncements. He possesses no insight, no knowledge, and no discernment that permit him to make such pronouncements. All he has is his opinion. Where does this little man get such arrogant presumption? I believe that God calls Tony Campolo to a life of silence. Let him shut up beginning now!
@clay56 You make my point exactly. Congratulations. Tony Campolo has nothing but his own opinion. Who gives a rat's rear-end about that? His opinion exists entirely in the small space between his left and right ears. He is not God's mouthpiece; he has no standing to pronounce about the lives of other people; he has no qualifications that permit him to interfere with the lives of other people. In short, he has nothing but opinion which he can keep to himself.
The bible teaches there is only one path for the christian to take when he has fallen into sine. Seek God for His forgiveness and repent of ( turn away from) that sin. It requires walking closely with God, reading His word and just like Jesus said in Matthew 16:24..." let him (the believer) DENY HIMSELF, take up the cross and follow Me." This path applies for all types of sinful lifestyles e.g. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, idolatry, etc..There are no shortcuts.
"The bible teaches there is only one path for the christian to take when he has fallen into sine."
Since the Bible does not address all same gender relationships, not the least of which is marriage, it is at least possible our Lord may be accepting of marriage of BOTH orientations. If such is the case then labeling it as sin might very well be something that is itself in need of forgiveness for too probable OT nineth commandment violations as well as the NT infraction of Matt. 7:1-2.
@clay56 When you say..."...it is at least possible our Lord may be accepting of marriage of BOTH orientations...", you are actually making a false speculation of a behaviour, which has already been clearly defined as sin by God Himself in His word, the bible. In 1st Corinthians 6:9, God, through His Holy Spirit working in the Apostle Paul, has said "....the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God (meaning they will go to hell) & they include the homosexuals. U should face the truth.
"When you say..."...it is at least possible our Lord may be accepting of marriage of BOTH orientations...", you are actually making a false speculation of a behaviour, which has already been clearly defined as sin by God Himself in His word, the bible. In 1st Corinthians 6:9,..."
Same gender marriage is absent from 1 Cor. and other scriptures. Speculation of its devine condemnation is yours, as your assertion of it's condemnation since Paul did not address it.
To really show love to a homosexual is accept them as just another human being but to reject their sinful lifestyle. The church should welcome them to their services but not not give recognition to their sinful lifestyles as "acceptable". Similarly the church should be opened to other practising sinners like adulterers and sodomites but again, let it be known to them that they are expected to eventually change their lifestyles, which are also sinful in the eyes of God.
And for those gays who do not believe that the homosexual lifestyle is a sin in God's eyes, then the bible in the New Testament, 1 Corinthians 6:9 specifically says...." Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, nor thieves, etc...will inherit the kingdom of God. " There is no " special save ticket " or exception for those practising the sin of homosexuality. They will surely go to hell together with the fornicators. adulterers, sodomites, etc....
"1 Corinthians 6:9 specifically says...." Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, nor thieves, etc...will inherit the kingdom of God. "
The original Greek text uses two words. One is increasingly believed to be in refrence to juvinille prostitutes. The other is Pauls OWN fusion of two words, the meaning of which has been argued for centuries. Neither speak to all same gender relationships, not the least of which is marriage.
@clay56 You can personally argue and rationalize as much as you want to justify the homosexual lifestyle as not sinful, but there are many other bible references that condemns the homosexual as sinful in the eyes of God. You can fault the Apostle Paul for supposedly using the wrong word but all true christians know that the bible, the word of God is inerrant (free from error) and infallible (incapable of error) because it is inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, who is infallible Himself.
"You can personally argue and rationalize as much as you want to justify the homosexual lifestyle as not sinful."
Specifically Im stating all such relationship may not be wrong just as not all intimate hetero relationships are not. And our Lord's word may be inerrant and infallible, His children's view of it is NOT neccessarily or always the case.
Tony Campolo is very confused person where demonstrating love towards the gay community is concerned. To warn them that their sinful lifestyle will take them to a burning hell IS LOVE. It is like warning another person not to take the road where the bridge has collapsed. To will the same rights and privileges of homosexuals to the gay community, as Tony suggests, IS NOT LOVE because it will give acceptance to their sinful lifestyles which will surely take them to hell. Tony has muddled thinking.
" Tony Campolo is very confused person where demonstrating love towards the gay community is concerned. To warn them that their sinful lifestyle will take them to a burning hell IS LOVE."
He argues that such is not SHOWING love and only places the person at a distnace.
"To will the same rights and privileges of homosexuals to the gay community, as Tony suggests, IS NOT LOVE because it will give acceptance to their sinful lifestyles which will surely take them to hell."
@clay56 While you and Tony Campolo may project an appearance of understanding, compassion and acceptance towards the gay community, it is very clear both of you are doing them incalculable harm by lulling them to a false sense of spiritual security. At the end of the day, it is not you nor Tony Campolo who will decide how they are judged but God Almighty Himself, who has already made it clear as daylight that all those who practise sinful lifestyles will not be entering His kingdom but hell.
"it is very clear both of you are doing them incalculable harm by lulling them to a false sense of spiritual security."
I don't compare myself AT ALL with Tony Compolo, while I don't agree with everything he says, he has an overall Biblical understanding, it's probable NEITHER of us do. But I do believe that it's gay Christian opponents who may do the harm potentially to themselves by judging their neighbors on our Lord's behalf.
I myself am optimistic about it ALL since again His...(Cont.)
@clay56 You are in the same boat as Tony Campolo when both of you attempt to convince other christians to accept the homosexual christian's lifestyle, which is against biblical teaching. Tony doesn't have an overall understanding of the bible if he can't even comprehend the simple truth that sinful homosexual lifestyle, like all other sinful lifestyles must never be accepted by the church. You are a very naive and ignorant person if you don't even know that the church is to judge all sins.
"You are in the same boat as Tony Campolo when both of you attempt to convince other christians to accept the homosexual christian's lifestyle, which is against biblical teaching."
It's not in agreement with an accepted view many hold of Biblical scripture, which is not neccessarily nor entirely the same as our Lord's word on the matter.
" You are a very naive and ignorant person if you don't even know that the church is to judge all sins."
@clay56 When you say " the accepted view many hold of biblical scripture " may not necessarily be the same a s the view held by Jesus, the Son of God, you are only hoping it is so. But the known fact is that God has clearly revealed that homosexuality is not just only a sin, but an abomination to Him. (See Leviticus 18:22). Just because Jesus didn't say a word about homosexuality doesn't mean it is not a sin. Jesus also didn't say anything about incest. Does it mean it is acceptable?
"When you say " the accepted view many hold of biblical scripture " may not necessarily be the same a s the view held by Jesus, the Son of God, you are only hoping it is so."
Christ Himself dispelled accepted views such as Mosaic Law on divorce in Matt 19:9-10. And since He said nothing about homosexuality. all you can do is "hope" he upholds your view. But you're right, He also said nothng about incest, NOR did he overturn the "sin" of a woman grabbing her husband's attacker by the...(Cont.)
...Groin as stated in Deu. 25:11-12. He also didn't address the "sin" of a woman refusing to marry the man who rapes and impregnates her (Deu. 22:28-29). On such occassions, many Christians after reading praying, and talking simply have to ask the question: "What would Jesus do." The answer(s) makes up a big part of the explanation as to why Christians differ on this and other issues.
@clay56 Your so-called brand of "christianity" is the religion which you have personally custom- made for yourself. So if you are a practising and unrepentant homosexual, you close your eyes to the portion of the bible which clearly condemns your sexual lifestyle as sin and an abomination. In contrast, true christianity is biblical christianity where the whole bible is the regarded as the word of God. You can delude yourself that you are a "gay christian" but the bible condemns you as a fraud.
"Your so-called brand of "christianity" is the religion which you have personally custom- made for yourself."
As is yours since not all that oppose homosexuality on Biblical grounds believe it to be a "sin" worthy of ultimate condemnation.
"So if you are a practising and unrepentant homosexual, you close your eyes to the portion of the bible which clearly condemns your sexual lifestyle as sin and an abomination."
You have close your own eyes to the portions of my posts that state...(Cont.)
...The Bible says nothing about same gender marriage. Instead you repeatedly make very broad accusations of supporting a "lifestyle" since all too likely you can find NO Biblical support for your OWN belief of divine opposition to same gender marriage.
"You can delude yourself that you are a "gay christian" but the bible condemns you as a fraud.
You presume too much on mine and the Bible's behalf. It's saying nothing of same gender unions doesn't stop you from saying otherwise.
@clay56 You are a person who really doesn't know what the bible teaches. Romans 6:23 tells us that.."the wages of sin is death (eternal spiritual death in hell), but the gift of God is eternal life (in heaven) in Christ Jesus our Lord." Which simply means SIN ( in all its manifestations such as adultery, fornication, idolatry,...etc & homosexuality ) is going to take the sinner to hell and is to be avoided like spiritual cancer & the plague. ALL SIN is worthy of condemnation.
"You are a person who really doesn't know what the bible teaches."
I know what's NOT there. And I know you're trying to fill the gap with your own presumption on our Lord's behalf.
"Romans 6:23 tells us that.."the wages of sin is death..."
Yet you haven't come up with any Biblical documentation of the "sin" of same gender marriage, but call it sin nonetheless. Are you sure YOU'RE not the one in need of our Lord's forgiveness for potential violations of the :Nineth Commandment and Matt. 7:2?
@clay56 You are indeed a person who doesn't know what the bible teaches. While it is true that there is no instance of Jesus condemning homosexuality in the 4 gospels, you failed to understand that Jesus Himself IS THE WORD OF GOD who became flesh and dwelt among men (John 1:14). The whole bible that man has, which is the written word of God, CAME FROM HIM. If the bible says in Old and New Testament that homosexuality is sin, it is actually Jesus & God saying it is sin.
"You are indeed a person who doesn't know what the bible teaches."
It does NOT teach what your saying. .
"If the bible says in Old and New Testament that homosexuality is sin, it is actually Jesus & God saying it is sin."
The word there is "IF." There is no Biblical documentation of the condemnation of ALL same gender relationships, including marriage. It is our Lord's children who condem all such relationships offering up false testimony from the Bible for their "evidence."
@clay56 And if homosexuality has been condemned as sin in the bible, same gender " marriage" is even a bigger abomination in the eyes of God because it additionally corrupts and perverts the instituition of marriage which He ordained. I sympathise with the state you are in but if you ever wish to harbour even a small hope of entering heaven, you need to first start with acknowledging the fact that homosexuality is sin in God's eyes. Knowing & embracing God's truth is always the first step.
"And if homosexuality has been condemned as sin in the bible, same gender " marriage" is even a bigger abomination in the eyes of God because it additionally corrupts and perverts the instituition of marriage which He ordained..."
This is a product of your own subjective belief of the Bible and our Lord's will which you would probably have others accept as evidence of devine condemnation which you DON'T have. Your belief and "God's view" are NOT neccessarily or entirely one and the same.
@clay56 You are the one being greatly deluded by the devil. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 clearly tells us .." Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, etc...will inherit the kingdom of God." If you cannot even understand these simple verses, it is your belief that is subjective, false and against the word of God. Homosexuality is one of the hardest sins to be freed from because of the very great deception that it surrounds its victim with.
"You are the one being greatly deluded by the devil."
And again, the charge of such influence is made by those who could themselves be under such influence. The Pharisees made a similar charge against Christ, discrediting themselves in the process.
." Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, etc..."
Yet again, the New KJV from which you quote makes the correction of "homosexual" with "catamite," a young juvenille... (Cont.)
...Prostitute. This again is not reflective of all same gender relationships. It's you who does not appear to understand the verse. You can keep re-stating the same accusations and citing the same verses if you wish to draw attention away from the fact that you can provide NO Biblical proof of devine condemnation of all same gender relationships, namely marriage. Yet you judge on our Lord's behalf anyway, potentially placing yourself in the greatest need of His forgiveness.
@clay56 If you can't even make the simple logical connection between the biblical fact that 1 Corinthians 6:9 condemns homosexuality as a sin, and the implied corollary (a true logical inference) that therefore same gender relationships and marriage, is also sin and an abomination in God's eyes, are you not truly and totally deluded? You need to go take a class on what is logic and logical thinking. Yours has been definitely impaired, and most definitely by your homosexual belief &/or practice.
If you can't even make the simple logical connection between the biblical fact that 1 Corinthians 6:9 condemns homosexuality as a sin, and the implied corollary (a true logical inference) that therefore same gender relationships and marriage, is also sin and an abomination in God's eyes.
Something percieved "simple" and "logical" is NOT neccessarily or entirely true. I respect your belief, yet you have no documentation to support the devine condemnation of all same gender relationships.
"If you can't even make the simple logical connection between the biblical fact that 1 Corinthians 6:9 condemns homosexuality as a sin, and the implied corollary (a true logical inference) that therefore same gender relationships and marriage, is also sin and an abomination in God's eyes."
Something can be "simple" and "logical" and still not neccessarily be true. I respect your belief, yet you have no documentation to support the devine condemnation of all same gender relationships.
@clay56 The only reason why you cannot see the "simple & logical connection " between the sinful practice of homosexuality and the sinfulness of same gender relationship is that the practice of homosexuality has, apart from blinding you to the truth of God's word, also impaired & made defective your logical faculty. I have had YT discussions with many homosexuals and all of them had the same impairment of their logical faculty. This is a fact. Some people call it "the denial syndrome".
"The only reason why you cannot see the "simple & logical connection " between the sinful practice of homosexuality and the sinfulness of same gender relationship is that the practice of homosexuality has, apart from blinding you to the truth of God's word, also impaired & made defective your logical faculty."
Again, what may be logical isn't always, entirely or even partly true. Since there is no Biblical documentation against SG marriage, it's also logical you could VERY well be wrong.
" It is pointless for me to continue my dialogue with you when you have already entered the "denial" mode and suspended your logical faculty."
According to the NT all sexual relations are sin outside marriage.To state the advocacy for the marriage of one orientation must mean NOTHING short of the devine exclusion of another without supportive Biblical documentation is to presume too much on our Creator's behalf. This is what brings your own "logic" into question.
@clay56 While you are right in saying that all sexual relations outside marriage are sin where the bible is concerned, you need to work on your definition of "marriage". Where God is concerned, there is only one definition, that is the union of a man to a woman in holy matrimony, NOT a union of a man to another man, and NOT a union of a woman to another woman. Until you rid your self of the " denial syndrome" in this matter, you are just deluding yourself or you are being deluded by the devil.
"Where God is concerned, there is only one definition, that is the union of a man to a woman in holy matrimony, NOT a union of a man to another man, and NOT a union of a woman to another woman...."
Such is your opionion of His will and is NOT Biblically specified. The latter in particular seems to be something about which yourself are in "denial."
there is no such thing as a 'gay'. We call someone who steals a 'thief', someone who lies a 'liar' and a sexual deviant either an 'adulterer' or 'gay'. but before God they are all men or women who have made a choice that opposes His will. God's word to them does not change, it is always "REPENT!! REPENT!! REPENT!!"
those who obey and turn from wickedness and by faith seek Jesus Christ with all their mind and body, they will be saved in the end. All others will burn forever.
"there is no such thing as a 'gay'. We call someone who steals a 'thief', someone who lies a 'liar' and a sexual deviant either an 'adulterer' or 'gay'."
Gay Christians are often grouped in with thieves and adulters in an effort to condemn them.
"those who obey and turn from wickedness and by faith seek Jesus Christ with all their mind and body"
We should love all, love the person hate the sin. Continued prayers for them but also offer a kind word & help. Pray for all persons that are lost & pray for their salvation!
"We should love all, love the person hate the sin."
A person's sexual orientation is very much a part of what makes him/her who he/she is, so it's somewhere between VERY difficult and impossible to hate one without hating both.
"Pray for all persons that are lost & pray for their salvation!"
Good advice to anyone regardless of their spiritual beliefs.
Fear and hatred? Not from me. I'd invite a gay person to church, but I would not support a church that gave him/her membership. Gays in the congregation, ok. Gay membership or leadership? No. It's about holiness and accountability to God. I'm sorry, I didn't make it to the gay community today. I also forgot to witness to alchoholics, criminals, and others sinners like me. I do admit I need to do that.
"I didn't make it to the gay community today. I also forgot to witness to alchoholics, criminals, and others sinners like me. I do admit I need to do that."
Fortunately many heterosexual Christians DON'T believe homosexuals fall into such a comparison, believing instead that different sexual orientations are like different eye, hair or skin color. But we know that no one has tried to Biblically justify a prejudice for those kind of attributes.
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So what, I've never told a pedophile that indorse their warped ideas either, And that is a sexual preference as well, and I most certainly WON'T tell them that "...I will for you the same rights and privileges that I enjoy as a heteral sexual."
I wish I could understand this video because I need to be able to talk to my parents about my brother's homosexuality, but I am Brazilian and I haven't total understanding of English
"wanting to rape the angles of God would an act of inhospitality, the HS penned the bible which says plenty about the filthy proud sin of homosexuality."
1. Rapests are not representative of all homosexuals.
2. It's not even certain rape was the intention of the mob. All those who argue it was use the Hebrew word for "know" to justify their claim. But this term has ELEVEN different definations.
A SINGLE word with MANY meanings is being exploited to condemn homosexuality.
Jude was born nearly as long after Lot as we were after Jude. So it's very possible he wrote based on what he'd had read or heard from others about about Sodom in his own era especially since neither Christ or subsequent Old Testament books mention homosexuality in relation to Sodom.
@clay56 wanting to rape the angles of God would an act of inhospitality, the HS penned the bible which says plenty about the filthy proud sin of homosexuality. go to youtube & watch John MacArthur's abandoned by God, the eight min version.
@TAKEHEED1 How in the heck can a human rape an angel (or an "angle," as you put it)????? Angels don't have bodies last time I checked. Give me a freaking break. Tell your God to kiss my arse. And while you're at it, you can kiss it too, when you're through making out with your cousin.
"Jesus doesn't condone homosexuality, in fact he says flee from sexual immorality."
He said sexual relations outside the boundary of marriage were immoral. Yet five states currently recognize same gender marriage. And informal ceremonies may be conducted where it is not recognized.
"Church leadership cannot be allowed to teach that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle,"
For many it is more than a lifestyle but a LIFE. And only our Lord can say what church practices are TRULY proper.
@kbaugh19 Read on John 3:16-19 And Jesus doesn't condone homosexuality. The God of the old Testament & Jesus are one in the same. The Trinity the Lord is God the Lord is One.
@TAKEHEED1 I agree. Jesus doesn't condone homosexuality, in fact he says flee from sexual immorality. I agree they are the same God as well, we just have a new promise since Jesus. Jesus does not condone sexuality, but it's not OUR job to judge anyone. Church leadership cannot be allowed to teach that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle, but we must still reach out our arms to all people in love. We must not forget that "while we were still sinners Christ died for us." All of us.
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Homosexual activists understand the power of words.
Please visit my channel to watch a one-minute video clip in which popular atheist author Richard Dawkins admits that homosexual activists "hijacked the word 'gay'".
The word "homosexual" is more appropriate and accurate because it, unlike the word "gay", actually describes the behavior/attraction/relationship being discussed.
The word "gay" helps homosexual activists push their agenda.
lightandbeautiful 2 days ago
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"I wonder if such a person will ever change his mind if he's actually willing to fight for equality for gay people."
I think one can assert the legal right for homosexual, athiest, or non Christian without compromising his/her spiritual values. In fact, by such action, one could be upholding one of the highest of Christian values which is the Golden Rule.
clay56 1 week ago
I wonder if such a person will ever change his mind if he's actually willing to fight for equality for gay people. I really don't know how you can hold both views at once, though.
Jwb52z 1 week ago
One of the things I most respect and admire about Tony Campolo is that eventhough he believes same gender relationships are sinful, he has indeed admitted to the possibility of being mistaken and is respectful and understanding of those who's views do not match his own, one of whom happens to be his own wife.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
clay56 1 month ago
New Christian tactic: Pretend to "love" the LGBT community, then "lovingly" tell them what they do is wrong. Guilt trip them into being celibate.
Most U.S. Christians have " lovingly" banned gay marriage.
The hard line approach has failed, so they've decided to use a new tactic.... I have seen through it, have you?
wankerpanther 3 months ago
Do you feel loved if your parents discipline you? Probably not. But if you don't discipline your children, the bible says you hate them.
Which rights are you talking about? The right to adopt? The right to get married?
MPaulHolmes 3 months ago
IF you are having problems about the (sins of sexual man) you need to listen to Sy Rogers..the best speaker , preacher on the subject.. Some of you that are quick to judge the sin life of someone should think..If they aren't saved, it's unbelief that sends them to hell...not their sin, for God so Loved the WORLD....that's what Jesus is all about folks
lazerholt 3 months ago
@lazerholt Whoever as my commandments and obeys them, he is the one who loves me... The bible says over and over and over and over ..... that belief and obedience are inextricably linked.
MPaulHolmes 3 months ago
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well said- I have previously recommended the Youtube debate with Dr. Michael Brown and Harry Knox. Dr. Brown does an outstanding,unassailable job of explicating and expounding the underlying judeo/christian ethical understanding of sexuality in God's view. Every one would do themselves a great favor listening to the deep wisdom of this man. The urgency of the Apostle Paul's warning in I Cor 6 "Not to be deceived..." (speaking to the brethren) makes sense because of those who call sin "love"
shieldsff 3 months ago
@clay56 In light of the impending return of Jesus for His bride, the church through the rapture, you should quickly repent of your sin before it is too late. Once Jesus has raptured His church, the only remaining way into the kingdom of heaven through Jesus is by matyrdom for His cause during the time of the Great Tribulation. Should you be left behind and don't choose to take the mark of the beast (the Antichrist), the bible says you will not be able to buy or sell, meaning you will starve.
opsvideo2008 4 months ago
"In light of the impending return of Jesus for His bride, the church through the rapture, you should quickly repent of your sin before it is too late."
Certainly, we're all going to meet Him wheather in this life or the next. I for one am rather optimistic about it since forgiveness is in reach for whichever one of us is wrong (assuming EITHER of us is right) when we simply ask it for ourselves and EACH OTHER.
"...With God ALL Things Are Possible."
Matthew 19:26
clay56 4 months ago
@clay56 You shouldn't delude yourself & others that while you are for unrepentant homosexuality that you are in the good books of God. Haven't you taken note what 1 Corinthians 6:9 says in the bible?...." Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, nor thieves, etc...will inherit the kingdom of God." You have been deceived.
opsvideo2008 4 months ago
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"Haven't you taken note what 1 Corinthians 6:9 says in the bible?...."
Yes, and I keep talking about a little footnote from the very Bible you yourself cite yet apparently ignore. But that's what too many do when they pick and choose their way through the Bible to suit their OWN preferences rather than try to understand and learn our Lord's will.
clay56 4 months ago
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clay56 4 months ago
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"You and shieldff have placed your homosexual lifestyle above plain understanding of English, plain logic and above the authority of the word of God,..."
I wonder about your own literacy since in spite of my recent response to this accusation, you still presume a certain "lifestyle" for me and now another poster which is a HUGE irony since shields SHARES your view of same gender relationships. Are you sure illiteracy IS an advantage especially when it causes you to miss a Biblical footnote?
clay56 4 months ago
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clay56 4 months ago
@clay56 Both of you need help and should go ask Tony Campolo if 1 Corinthians 6:9 says homosexuality and sodomy is sin.
opsvideo2008 4 months ago
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"Both of you need help and should go ask Tony Campolo if 1 Corinthians 6:9 says homosexuality and sodomy is sin."
Whatever Tony Campolo may think about 1 Cor. and other verses, he's made the concession that he could be incorrect about it since ONLY our Lord can know it's meaning to it's fullest, most correct extent. Your trying to saddle your view with His will doesn't make the two one and the same.
clay56 4 months ago
"If you cannot get the gist of this simple message, then the illiterate people are better off than you & clay56..."
That's because It's easier to get the "illiterate" to think what you'd have them think. It's why it's important to urge those new to Christianity to take the time they need to listen, pray, read, and think in order to determine at some point in our Lord's will ultimately for themselves as part of having that VITAL relationship with Him... (Cont.)
clay56 4 months ago
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@shieldsff You are shifting the focus. 1 Corinthians says it clearly...fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, sodomites etc...will not inherit the kingdom of God. If you cannot get the gist of this simple message, then the illiterate people are better off than you & clay56 because when read to them, they fully understand that all these unrepentant sinners are going to hell. You are another "truth-bender" like clay56 who abuse the word of God shamelessly.
opsvideo2008 4 months ago
"In making your comments, you have conveniently forget that the only standard of what is acceptable in the sight of God is His word itself, the bible and never any man's opinion."
An ironic statement since it's "man" who has canonized, copied, printed, translated, and interpeted the Bible all in our Lord's name. Popularly held interpetations could be popularly held misconceptions since "man" is anything but perfect which is why scriptural interpetation is reviewed from one era to the next.
clay56 4 months ago
"And if you cannot even admit to understanding 1 Corinthians 6:9..."
The very printers of the New KJV specified prostitution in relation to the word "homosexual" from the very Bible you yourself cited. Did they not understand either? It's probably (MUCH) more accurate to say neither I nor apparently the translators of the NKJV share YOUR personal understanding of the verse.
clay56 4 months ago
@clay56 People like your type are " truth-benders" who will bend the truth of the word of God to justify your sinful lifestyle. On one hand , you pretend to care about the bible but in reality you couldn't care two hoots about its truth as long you get to twist and bend its meaning to suit your sinful purpose. I have more respect for Satan worshippers than for people like you ; at least they do not deceive themselves and openly declare that their lord is the devil himself. You are self deluded.
opsvideo2008 4 months ago
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clay56 4 months ago
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clay56 4 months ago
"People like your type are " truth-benders" who will bend the truth of the word of God to justify your sinful lifestyle."
I don't agree with your view which despite what you'd have others believe is again NOT neccessarily or entirely our Lord's will.
"On one hand , you pretend to care about the bible but in reality you couldn't care two hoots about its truth as long you get to twist and bend its meaning to suit your sinful purpose."
The accusation of "twisting" or "bending" is... (Cont.)
clay56 4 months ago
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The traditional viewpoint is that the Torah mentions homosexuality twice in the book of Leviticus (JPS): Lev.18,22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination.
וְאִישׁ, אֲשֶׁר יִשְׁכַּב אֶת-זָכָר מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה—תּוֹעֵבָה עָשׂוּ, שְׁנֵיהֶם; מוֹת יוּמָתוּ, דְּמֵיהֶם בָּם.
Lev.20,13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
shieldsff 4 months ago
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shieldsff 5 months ago
No human can on one hand advocate the practice of homosexuality by saying people should observe the golden rule of loving others like ourselves, and on the other hand, negate the decree of God that homosexuality is a sin. Tony Campolo in trying to do that, has made a spiritual fool of himself here. The bible is clear that we are to love all others including unrepentant homosexuals but when it comes to their unrepentant sin, we have to tell them it is taking them to hell as the bible says.
opsvideo2008 5 months ago
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clay56 5 months ago
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clay56 5 months ago
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clay56 5 months ago
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clay56 5 months ago
"The bible is clear that we are to love all others including unrepentant homosexuals but when it comes to their unrepentant sin, we have to tell them it is taking them to hell as the bible says."
Since the Bible does not speak to all same gender relationships, not the least of which is marriage, such a statement is presumption on our Lord's part. And I am no more prayerful for the non-Christian, agnostic or athiest than I am the fellow Christian who second guesses our Lord on ultimate judgement.
clay56 5 months ago
@clay56 You are being deluded in your comments because in the first place, there is no such thing as "same gender relationships" in the bible except for homosexuality, which has already been defined sin & abomination.
opsvideo2008 5 months ago
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clay56 5 months ago
"You are being deluded in your comments because in the first place, there is no such thing as "same gender relationships" in the bible..."
That's simply re-stating that the Bible does not speak to all types same gender relationships. It does not make the distinction between monogamous, committed same gender marriage and an act with a prostitute. So the terms "sin" and "abomination" in application to ALL such relationships would indeed be a personal presumption on the part of the reader.
clay56 5 months ago
@clay56 You are in denial and in rebellion because you have denied what God told in Moses in Leviticus 18:22, that is...." Thous shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind : it is abomination. " which simply means homosexuality is not just sin before God's eyes, it is also an abomination (something greatly detestable to God). Even if you can tear out this page from all the bibles in the world, you cannot deny that God has already spoken on this matter.
opsvideo2008 5 months ago
"You are in denial and in rebellion because you have denied what God told in Moses in Leviticus 18:22,.."
Starting up with the "denial" posts again? :)
The term "abomination" also described wearing clothing of two different fabrics and sewing a field with two different crops (Lev. 19-19). Other parts of Mosaic Law include the "sin" of a woman's grabbing her attacker by the groin (Deut. 25:11-12) along with a virgin's having to marry the man who rapes and impregnates her as commanded... (Cont.)
clay56 4 months ago
@clay56 You have misunderstood the teachngs of the bible. The Mosaic Law consisting of civil, ceremonial and moral laws were given by God specifically to the Israelites of the Old Testament. When Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, He fulfilled all the requirements of the Law and is the end of the Law. However the moral laws of God are universal and remains applicable to all mankind of all eras, for e.g. not to commit murder, adultery, homosexuality etc.....cont'd.
opsvideo2008 4 months ago
"The Mosaic Law consisting of civil, ceremonial and moral laws were given by God specifically to the Israelites of the Old Testament."
Since these terms are not Biblically used, either can and often have been exploited to subjectively "explain" why some laws should be retained and others shouldn't.
"However the moral laws of God are universal and remains applicable to all mankind of all eras,"
One could have explained the "morality" of having a virgin marry the man who raped and... (Cont.)
clay56 4 months ago
Part 2
"...Sadly used by those wanting others to see their view as NOTHING other than our Lord's will when they are met dissenting beliefs.
I can only guess and pray your statement about having "more respect for Satan worshipers" than other Christians who differ with your personal view of our Lord's will was made in a moment of haste, anger and/or frustration. For such an attitude all too likely works more in your disfavor rather than the Christians to whom you're referring.
clay56 4 months ago
@clay56 Believers of Christ are no longer under the Old Covenant but the New Covenant in Christ. They observe the New Testament (NT) teachings. That homosexuality was considered a sin and an abomination by God and is still so under the New Covenant, can clearly be seen in the NT verse 1 Corinthians 6:9 that says...." Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, nor thieves, etc...will inherit the kingdom of God, meaning they are going to hell.
opsvideo2008 4 months ago
"Believers of Christ are no longer under the Old Covenant but the New Covenant in Christ."
Who said nothing about homosexuality. Too many gay Christian opponents try to exploit His teachings for their own anti gay positions to (falsely) state He did, potentially bringing up problems between themselves and our Lord regarding Matt. 7:1-2 as well as the Nineth Commandment which Christ upheld in Matt. 19:18.
"1 Corinthians 6:9..."
The part of which many believe refer to homosexuals... (Cont.)
clay56 4 months ago
@clay56 A wise man once said that a little knowledge about something is dangerous because you do not understand the whole picture & therefore will go into error. That's precisely what you have fallen into. You think you know what the bible teaches when in reality you don't. You only know the bits and pieces of it & don't understand how all the teachings of the bible come together in harmony. Also your intent in using bible verses is just to justify your sinful lifestyle, not in seeking truth.
opsvideo2008 4 months ago
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clay56 4 months ago
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clay56 4 months ago
Part 2
...Impregnated her, arguing the need for the child to have a father. The prohibition against wearing clothing of two different fabrics as well as sowing a field with two different seeds has also been argued morally. The use of the terms simply emphasizes the simple fact that Mosaic Law is a highly questionable OVERALL moral guide for today's Christians.
clay56 4 months ago
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clay56 4 months ago
Part 3
... who sits in judgement of all same gender relationships based of the acts of prostitutes.
clay56 4 months ago
Part 2
...In Deut. 22:28-29. Many use Lev.18:22 perhaps more than any other Bible verse to justify their own personal disgust and intolerance while all TOO conveniently overlooking other Mosaic Laws that are considered morally uphorrid by most Christians now. in so doing, they place themselves in their OWN denial. Otherwise they would be able to provide SOLID explanations as to why Mosaic Law prohibiting homosexuality still applies and not the others
clay56 4 months ago
Part 2
...Revolves around two Greek terms, the meaning of which Paul did not specify or explain which is most likely why they have been debated for MANY centuries. The New KJV from which you quote corrects the word "homosexual" footnoting it with the word "catamite" (young juvenile prostitute). Such a person reflects all homosexuals as well as the past life of the woman who bathed Christ's feet with her tears reflected all heterosexuals. I myself would be very prayerful of anyone... (Cont.)
clay56 4 months ago
These were informative insights here from Tony - Thank you Mr. Campolo
shieldsff 5 months ago
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You 'proudly' mention [the] 'gay christian movement (even though God strongly condemns & resists the proud). Could you clarify that? Where in the Bible is it taught that Christians ought to distinguish themselves or establish their identity in Christ Jesus predicated on sexuality? In fact, we are told there is only one Lord, one faith & one baptism into the body of Christ Jesus. Is it not possible that U R deceived ? Does the Bible encourage proud adulterers, thieves, pedophiles& drunkards too
shieldsff 5 months ago
Same sex marriage is a "cut and dry" "no brainer"! God's word is emphatically clear about this. This is a settled issue for all TRUE christians! Next topic please.
EPESDART 5 months ago
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"Same sex marriage is a "cut and dry" "no brainer"! God's word is emphatically clear about this."
The Bible speaks of homosexuality almost entirely in terms of prostitution and pegan orgy. There is no mention of same gender marriage. Christians who believe our Lord condemns it may need to re-check the verses they think uphold this view.
clay56 5 months ago
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clay56 5 months ago
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clay56 5 months ago
Part 2
...Higher than those of Abraham's or Moses'. And I MAY take the animal issue a bit more seriously if and when our Lord sees fit to grant animals with the cognitive capacity to enter into contracts that would allow them to open a bank account, purchase property and EVEN enter a legal marriage. 'Til then. all of this, especially the beastiality part is simply a fear/smear tactic that been used UNsuccessfully over time namely in the case of interracial marriage. But there is also... (Cont.)
clay56 5 months ago
@clay56 - if and when our Lord sees fit to grant animals with the cognitive capacity
Ok, like that would really even matter to the **perverts** engaged in that activity, right ?
Sadly, you refuse to acknowledge the depths of depravity to which the sin-filled souls of some men are able to reach. It's not a tactic, while the practice still, fortunately, is largely considered taboo, no doubt some group will emerge seeking to mainstream its acceptance ( like the unthinkable existence of NABMLA)
shieldsff 5 months ago
"if and when our Lord sees fit to grant animals with the cognitive capacity..."
The word there is "if." And that time hasn't arrived, which means the issue is brought up as NO more than a fear/smear tactic.
"Sadly, you refuse to acknowledge the depths of depravity to which the sin-filled souls of some men are able to reach."
Many stated polygamy and beastiality would happen if interracial marriages were legalized. It didn't happen, and TOO likely won't with SG marriage.
clay56 5 months ago
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"Same sex marriage is a "cut and dry" "no brainer"! God's word is emphatically clear about this."
The Bible speaks of homosexuality almost entirely in terms of prostitution and pegan orgy. There is no mention of same gender marriage. Christians who believe our Lord condemns it may need to re-check the verses they think uphold this view
clay56 5 months ago
Part 3
... The other side to this issue. If same gender marriage is formally banned nationwide for Biblical reasons, why then should women keep their places in authority since it is expressly forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:11-15 as is allowing a woman to speak in church (1 Cor.14:34-37). Not that I think it is likely it would happen, only slightly if any more likely than legalized polagomy or beastiality, but I just don't believe the far right would stop if it got it's way on ANY one particular issue.
clay56 5 months ago
@EPESDART It wasn't on Jesus' list.....
ally75 5 months ago
Tony is really outstanding for his opinion that he states. This" hate the sin love the sinner", doesn't fly because homosexuality is an orientation -its NOT just a sex act, thats what so many people dont understand. To hate sin is really hating the person. Gays were once pursecuted because of there out of control sexual behavior. Now all these years later Gays want to be Christians,have children/family, settle down, be monagamous/married -and still its not good enough for society! Its not fair!
anthonypaul2 7 months ago
While saying the practice of homosexuality as sin, Tony has also bent over backwards to accomodate homosexuals by saying " I will for you the same rights that I enjoy as a heterosexual " which is actually saying giving them their rights to same sex marriage. And WHAT ! Encouraging them in their sin? The error of Tony Campolo is that he speaks different things to different people so as to befriend them, while the word of God speaks only ONE message to all people. Tony is doing double-speak.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
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clay56 8 months ago
"While saying the practice of homosexuality as sin, Tony has also bent over backwards to accomodate homosexuals by saying " I will for you the same rights that I enjoy as a heterosexual " which is actually saying giving them their rights to same sex marriage. And WHAT ! Encouraging them in their sin?"
I suppose it's how he sees the Golden Rule. If legal marriage is refused STRICTLY on the basis of personal faith, it would have to be denied to athiests, agnostics and other non-Christians.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 You don't have a clear understanding of what the bible teaches as a whole. Of course the golden rule of " loving your neighbour as yourself " applies to every believer BUT this single rule doesn't make null and void all the other commandments of God such as not to remain in sin and love one's sin in an unrepentant manner. Making a warped interpretation of the golden rule to encourage others in their sin is wrong in God's sight, and the person doing so will be accountable to God.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"You don't have a clear understanding of what the bible teaches as a whole."
Such is a bit presumptuous as far as the "whole" since all you know is that I don't agree with you on this one issue as to wheather or not all same gender relationships are sin.
"Making a warped interpretation of the golden rule to encourage others in their sin is wrong in God's sight,..."
I don't consider recognizing the marriage of non-Christians or Christians who don't see everything as I do "warped."
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 It is amazing you cannot see the simple connection between homosexual sin and same gender marriage. Any other person with a reasonable level of intellect can see that same gender marriage (SGM) is an " offspring" of homosexual behaviour which is sin in God's eyes. But then again, it's not that you don't understand but the fact is you are in denial. Even non-christians marry in accordance to God's ordinance. It is homosexual behaviour that is an abomination to Him & similarly SGM
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"It is amazing you cannot see the simple connection between homosexual sin and same gender marriage."
I don't agree with the personal conclusion you yourself have drawn. The NT calls all forms of sexual intimacy sin, except within the boundaries of hetero marriage. Concluding such advocacy for one orientation means the other MUST be devinely prohibited simply for lack of mention is presuming too much on our Lord's behalf. And non-Christians marry in accordance to CIVIL ordinances.
.
clay56 7 months ago
@clay56 Same gender marriage is not mentioned in the bible because there is no such thing in the bible. Homosexuals created it to get formal recognition from society, it was never created or intended by God. What homosexuals call "same gender marriage" , is really based on a homosexual relationship, which has already been defined as sin by the bible. So it is not presumption on my part, but denial of this biblical fact on your part. Non-christian marriage is heterosexual, thus it is of God.
opsvideo2008 7 months ago
"Same gender marriage is not mentioned in the bible because there is no such thing in the bible."
An argument could be made against air travel or open heart surgery simply because these things didn't exist in Biblical times. Stating they like SG marriage are devinely forbidden on such grounds is again presuming too much on our Lord's behalf.
"...it was never created or intended by God."
Nor was it expressly denied by Him.
clay56 7 months ago
"What homosexuals call "same gender marriage" , is really based on a homosexual relationship, which has already been defined as sin by the bible."
Outside marital boundaries. all sexual relationships regardless of orientation are Biblically defined as sin.
"So it is not presumption on my part, but denial of this biblical fact on your part."
Since your "Biblical fact" of devine condemnation of SG marriage has no Biblical backing, it definately IS presumption on your part.
clay56 7 months ago
@clay56 Air travel and heart surgery didn't exist in biblical times and there is nothing morally wrong for a person to engage in such activities. Same gender marriage (SGM) may not have been mentioned in biblical times but the homosexual activity that is part of SGM has already been condemned as sin and an abomination since the Old Testament. It doesn't take a genius to understand that but the homosexual has already decided to be in denial in order to self-justify their sinful activity.
opsvideo2008 7 months ago
"Same gender marriage (SGM) may not have been mentioned in biblical times but the homosexual activity that is part of SGM has already been condemned as sin ..."
Again, any sexual intimacy outside marriage is considered sin. This is the part you apparently keep ignoring when you evidently presume the advocacy of marriage for one orientation must mean the prohibition of the other. Your stating SG marriage is impossible without Biblical support places you in your own "denial."
clay56 7 months ago
@clay56 While you are right in saying any sexual intimacy outside marriage such as fornication & adultery is sin, you dare not admit that the bible calls out the act of homosexuality as sin regardless of whether it happened in or outside marriage. And that is the huge elephant in the room which you hope not to see by constantly repeating the falsehood that homosexuality in a marriage is acceptable to God. In short you have distorted the word of God which is blasphemy.
opsvideo2008 7 months ago
"While you are right in saying any sexual intimacy outside marriage such as fornication & adultery is sin, you dare not admit that the bible calls out the act of homosexuality as sin regardless of whether it happened in or outside marriage."
I say that again since the Bible condemns all sexual intimacy outside marriage, it is presumptuous to say the advocacy of marriage for one orientation must mean the other is forbidden. You have stated your personal belief as if it were our... (Cont.)
clay56 7 months ago
Part 2
,,,Lord's will WITHOUT documentation. You're not the only one to do so. But it is probably BECAUSE of the lack of Biblical reference rather than in spite of it that many feel they must SO emphatically deny any and all possibility of same gender marriage on our Lord's behalf to draw attention away from the fact there is nothing actually written to justify what is NO more than their OWN personal belief.
clay56 7 months ago
Well then another question to the open-minded poster:how does it HARM "YOUR marriage" if some wanted even more legal marriage options with,say, their siblings, or their children,or to have polygamous marriages, or "marry" animals or consenting 9 years old (it's alleged Muhammad did).How can U object?
Answer: It doesn't ! Obviously, though society ( via laws) has rights to establish rules & control lives & restrict choices - this is what is meant by 'institution' -Conditioned freedom under law.
shieldsff 5 months ago
"...how does it HARM "YOUR marriage" if some wanted even more legal marriage options with,say, their siblings, or their children,or to have polygamous marriages,"
Interestingly enough, the NT confined only priest and bishops to monogamy (1Tim. 3:2/12). Our Lord authorized an incest based marriage in the case of Abraham and Sarah in Gen. (20:12) and (maybe) Moses' parents in Ex. 6:20. I don't THINK Christ would have approved of incest or polygamy since His time's population was much... (Cont.)
clay56 5 months ago
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shieldsff 5 months ago
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-In light of the fact that there are clear principals of exegesis which emphasize the role of theme& context, it's shocking you insist on this. It's clear from the words of the Lord Jesus HImself that the creation order was & is the uniting of man & female- that it is sinful & ungodly to agitate otherwise.This theme is established in the genesis account of the male/female relationship and later re- inforced by Jesus who also condemns divorce. Nowhere are men EVER called 'Echad'
shieldsff 5 months ago
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The C.D.C. (The center for disease control) 1. 85% of all male sexual transmitted aids cases are from homosexual contact. 2. Homosexual men have an H.I.V. Infection rate 60 times higher than general public. 3. 60% of all syphilis cases from homosexual & bisexual men. 4. The average life expectancy for a homosexual is 46yrs of age. It's wise & loving to oppose a man because of his destructive behavior. Others call it...intolerant!
shieldsff 4 months ago
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@opsvideo2008 -correct- 'DISTORTION' is the operative word to keep in mind when clay56 attempts to 'read' (i.e., deny & MIS--translate ) the Bible
shieldsff 5 months ago
@clay56 "Interestingly enough, the NT confined only priest and bishops to monogamy (1Tim. 3:2/12). Our Lord authorized an incest based marriage in the case of Abraham and Sarah" hey "clay"- thank for commenting. Alright, I do appreciate your time and all. At this point i think I understand exactly where you're coming from and I wish you Godspeed in your journey.
shieldsff 5 months ago
"At this point i think I understand exactly where you're coming from... "
Im not sure you do. The simple point is that no one can know the INFINATELY complex and vast will of our Lord to it's fullest extent.
clay56 5 months ago
@clay56 -"Concluding such advocacy for one orientation means the other MUST be devinely prohibited simply for lack of mention is presuming too much"
Sure, maybe,but how about the far more reasonable position that speaking to fellow jews, it was clearly absurd & unnecessary to raise the common moral censures against homosexualism anymore then say the issue of marrying one's sheep or goat" I mean, I am just sayin' that's how obvious it would have been to the moral sensibilities of Jews then
shieldsff 5 months ago
"...it was clearly absurd & unnecessary to raise the common moral censures against homosexualism anymore then say the issue of marrying one's sheep or goat..."
The two aren't comparable. People can give consent which is vital in a marriage, animals can't. Ironically, If you wanted to remove consent as an issue against beastiality, then you would clear the way for something FAR more comparable to hetero marriage in Biblical days when consent was not an issue for women.
clay56 5 months ago
@opsvideo2008 -"It is amazing you cannot see..."
that;s also known by that other word - starts with "R"
shieldsff 5 months ago
Tonly Campolo is a feel-good fundamentalist: he feels good that he pretends to advocate justice for gay people while at the very same time he bashes gay people with the Bible. He is a contemptible, double-talking, mealy-mouthed fake who gives his fellow fundamentalists cover to keep their hate alive as long as they can pretend that it's compassion.
jimtrueblue99 8 months ago in playlist Homosexual Debate
One admirable aspect about Tony Campolo is that while he believes that homosexuals are called to celebacy, he shows a level of understanding and respect towards other Christians who feel differently.
(IMHO) It's a goal in which all Christians should attempt to strive. :)
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 What's admirable about Tony Campolo pretending to know how God wants other people to live their lives? What is he, God's information conduit? He has no standing to make such pronouncements. He possesses no insight, no knowledge, and no discernment that permit him to make such pronouncements. All he has is his opinion. Where does this little man get such arrogant presumption? I believe that God calls Tony Campolo to a life of silence. Let him shut up beginning now!
jimtrueblue99 8 months ago
"What's admirable about Tony Campolo pretending to know how God wants other people to live their lives? What is he, God's information conduit?"
You seem to think yourself such stating absolutes about things the Bible doesn't mention.
"He possesses no insight, no knowledge, and no discernment that permit him to make such pronouncements."
And all most likely simply because his beliefs are different or not entirely the same as your own.
"All he has is his opinion...."
MUCH like yourself.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 You make my point exactly. Congratulations. Tony Campolo has nothing but his own opinion. Who gives a rat's rear-end about that? His opinion exists entirely in the small space between his left and right ears. He is not God's mouthpiece; he has no standing to pronounce about the lives of other people; he has no qualifications that permit him to interfere with the lives of other people. In short, he has nothing but opinion which he can keep to himself.
jimtrueblue99 8 months ago
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"Tony Campolo has nothing but his own opinion."
If that's the case then you and he too arguably have that one thing in common.
clay56 8 months ago
The bible teaches there is only one path for the christian to take when he has fallen into sine. Seek God for His forgiveness and repent of ( turn away from) that sin. It requires walking closely with God, reading His word and just like Jesus said in Matthew 16:24..." let him (the believer) DENY HIMSELF, take up the cross and follow Me." This path applies for all types of sinful lifestyles e.g. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, idolatry, etc..There are no shortcuts.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"The bible teaches there is only one path for the christian to take when he has fallen into sine."
Since the Bible does not address all same gender relationships, not the least of which is marriage, it is at least possible our Lord may be accepting of marriage of BOTH orientations. If such is the case then labeling it as sin might very well be something that is itself in need of forgiveness for too probable OT nineth commandment violations as well as the NT infraction of Matt. 7:1-2.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 When you say..."...it is at least possible our Lord may be accepting of marriage of BOTH orientations...", you are actually making a false speculation of a behaviour, which has already been clearly defined as sin by God Himself in His word, the bible. In 1st Corinthians 6:9, God, through His Holy Spirit working in the Apostle Paul, has said "....the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God (meaning they will go to hell) & they include the homosexuals. U should face the truth.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"When you say..."...it is at least possible our Lord may be accepting of marriage of BOTH orientations...", you are actually making a false speculation of a behaviour, which has already been clearly defined as sin by God Himself in His word, the bible. In 1st Corinthians 6:9,..."
Same gender marriage is absent from 1 Cor. and other scriptures. Speculation of its devine condemnation is yours, as your assertion of it's condemnation since Paul did not address it.
clay56 8 months ago
Part 2
Probably the person who second guesses our Lord on matters of ultimate judgement that is in MOST need of His forgiveness.
clay56 9 months ago
To really show love to a homosexual is accept them as just another human being but to reject their sinful lifestyle. The church should welcome them to their services but not not give recognition to their sinful lifestyles as "acceptable". Similarly the church should be opened to other practising sinners like adulterers and sodomites but again, let it be known to them that they are expected to eventually change their lifestyles, which are also sinful in the eyes of God.
opsvideo2008 9 months ago
And for those gays who do not believe that the homosexual lifestyle is a sin in God's eyes, then the bible in the New Testament, 1 Corinthians 6:9 specifically says...." Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, nor thieves, etc...will inherit the kingdom of God. " There is no " special save ticket " or exception for those practising the sin of homosexuality. They will surely go to hell together with the fornicators. adulterers, sodomites, etc....
opsvideo2008 9 months ago
"1 Corinthians 6:9 specifically says...." Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, nor thieves, etc...will inherit the kingdom of God. "
The original Greek text uses two words. One is increasingly believed to be in refrence to juvinille prostitutes. The other is Pauls OWN fusion of two words, the meaning of which has been argued for centuries. Neither speak to all same gender relationships, not the least of which is marriage.
clay56 9 months ago
@clay56 You can personally argue and rationalize as much as you want to justify the homosexual lifestyle as not sinful, but there are many other bible references that condemns the homosexual as sinful in the eyes of God. You can fault the Apostle Paul for supposedly using the wrong word but all true christians know that the bible, the word of God is inerrant (free from error) and infallible (incapable of error) because it is inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, who is infallible Himself.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
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"You can personally argue and rationalize as much as you want to justify the homosexual lifestyle as not sinful."
Specifically Im stating all such relationship may not be wrong just as not all intimate hetero relationships are not. And our Lord's word may be inerrant and infallible, His children's view of it is NOT neccessarily or always the case.
clay56 8 months ago
Tony Campolo is very confused person where demonstrating love towards the gay community is concerned. To warn them that their sinful lifestyle will take them to a burning hell IS LOVE. It is like warning another person not to take the road where the bridge has collapsed. To will the same rights and privileges of homosexuals to the gay community, as Tony suggests, IS NOT LOVE because it will give acceptance to their sinful lifestyles which will surely take them to hell. Tony has muddled thinking.
opsvideo2008 9 months ago
" Tony Campolo is very confused person where demonstrating love towards the gay community is concerned. To warn them that their sinful lifestyle will take them to a burning hell IS LOVE."
He argues that such is not SHOWING love and only places the person at a distnace.
"To will the same rights and privileges of homosexuals to the gay community, as Tony suggests, IS NOT LOVE because it will give acceptance to their sinful lifestyles which will surely take them to hell."
It is...(Cont)
clay56 9 months ago
@clay56 While you and Tony Campolo may project an appearance of understanding, compassion and acceptance towards the gay community, it is very clear both of you are doing them incalculable harm by lulling them to a false sense of spiritual security. At the end of the day, it is not you nor Tony Campolo who will decide how they are judged but God Almighty Himself, who has already made it clear as daylight that all those who practise sinful lifestyles will not be entering His kingdom but hell.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"it is very clear both of you are doing them incalculable harm by lulling them to a false sense of spiritual security."
I don't compare myself AT ALL with Tony Compolo, while I don't agree with everything he says, he has an overall Biblical understanding, it's probable NEITHER of us do. But I do believe that it's gay Christian opponents who may do the harm potentially to themselves by judging their neighbors on our Lord's behalf.
I myself am optimistic about it ALL since again His...(Cont.)
clay56 8 months ago
Part 2
...Forgiveness is in reach when we ask it for ourselves and EACH OTHER.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 You are in the same boat as Tony Campolo when both of you attempt to convince other christians to accept the homosexual christian's lifestyle, which is against biblical teaching. Tony doesn't have an overall understanding of the bible if he can't even comprehend the simple truth that sinful homosexual lifestyle, like all other sinful lifestyles must never be accepted by the church. You are a very naive and ignorant person if you don't even know that the church is to judge all sins.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"You are in the same boat as Tony Campolo when both of you attempt to convince other christians to accept the homosexual christian's lifestyle, which is against biblical teaching."
It's not in agreement with an accepted view many hold of Biblical scripture, which is not neccessarily nor entirely the same as our Lord's word on the matter.
" You are a very naive and ignorant person if you don't even know that the church is to judge all sins."
I guess you're referring to the church...(Cont.)
clay56 8 months ago
Part 2
...Which you yourself attend since not all churches agree as to what does and does not constitute sin.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 When you say " the accepted view many hold of biblical scripture " may not necessarily be the same a s the view held by Jesus, the Son of God, you are only hoping it is so. But the known fact is that God has clearly revealed that homosexuality is not just only a sin, but an abomination to Him. (See Leviticus 18:22). Just because Jesus didn't say a word about homosexuality doesn't mean it is not a sin. Jesus also didn't say anything about incest. Does it mean it is acceptable?
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"When you say " the accepted view many hold of biblical scripture " may not necessarily be the same a s the view held by Jesus, the Son of God, you are only hoping it is so."
Christ Himself dispelled accepted views such as Mosaic Law on divorce in Matt 19:9-10. And since He said nothing about homosexuality. all you can do is "hope" he upholds your view. But you're right, He also said nothng about incest, NOR did he overturn the "sin" of a woman grabbing her husband's attacker by the...(Cont.)
clay56 8 months ago
Part 2
...Groin as stated in Deu. 25:11-12. He also didn't address the "sin" of a woman refusing to marry the man who rapes and impregnates her (Deu. 22:28-29). On such occassions, many Christians after reading praying, and talking simply have to ask the question: "What would Jesus do." The answer(s) makes up a big part of the explanation as to why Christians differ on this and other issues.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 Your so-called brand of "christianity" is the religion which you have personally custom- made for yourself. So if you are a practising and unrepentant homosexual, you close your eyes to the portion of the bible which clearly condemns your sexual lifestyle as sin and an abomination. In contrast, true christianity is biblical christianity where the whole bible is the regarded as the word of God. You can delude yourself that you are a "gay christian" but the bible condemns you as a fraud.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"Your so-called brand of "christianity" is the religion which you have personally custom- made for yourself."
As is yours since not all that oppose homosexuality on Biblical grounds believe it to be a "sin" worthy of ultimate condemnation.
"So if you are a practising and unrepentant homosexual, you close your eyes to the portion of the bible which clearly condemns your sexual lifestyle as sin and an abomination."
You have close your own eyes to the portions of my posts that state...(Cont.)
clay56 8 months ago
Part 2
...The Bible says nothing about same gender marriage. Instead you repeatedly make very broad accusations of supporting a "lifestyle" since all too likely you can find NO Biblical support for your OWN belief of divine opposition to same gender marriage.
"You can delude yourself that you are a "gay christian" but the bible condemns you as a fraud.
You presume too much on mine and the Bible's behalf. It's saying nothing of same gender unions doesn't stop you from saying otherwise.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 You are a person who really doesn't know what the bible teaches. Romans 6:23 tells us that.."the wages of sin is death (eternal spiritual death in hell), but the gift of God is eternal life (in heaven) in Christ Jesus our Lord." Which simply means SIN ( in all its manifestations such as adultery, fornication, idolatry,...etc & homosexuality ) is going to take the sinner to hell and is to be avoided like spiritual cancer & the plague. ALL SIN is worthy of condemnation.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"You are a person who really doesn't know what the bible teaches."
I know what's NOT there. And I know you're trying to fill the gap with your own presumption on our Lord's behalf.
"Romans 6:23 tells us that.."the wages of sin is death..."
Yet you haven't come up with any Biblical documentation of the "sin" of same gender marriage, but call it sin nonetheless. Are you sure YOU'RE not the one in need of our Lord's forgiveness for potential violations of the :Nineth Commandment and Matt. 7:2?
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 You are indeed a person who doesn't know what the bible teaches. While it is true that there is no instance of Jesus condemning homosexuality in the 4 gospels, you failed to understand that Jesus Himself IS THE WORD OF GOD who became flesh and dwelt among men (John 1:14). The whole bible that man has, which is the written word of God, CAME FROM HIM. If the bible says in Old and New Testament that homosexuality is sin, it is actually Jesus & God saying it is sin.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"You are indeed a person who doesn't know what the bible teaches."
It does NOT teach what your saying. .
"If the bible says in Old and New Testament that homosexuality is sin, it is actually Jesus & God saying it is sin."
The word there is "IF." There is no Biblical documentation of the condemnation of ALL same gender relationships, including marriage. It is our Lord's children who condem all such relationships offering up false testimony from the Bible for their "evidence."
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 And if homosexuality has been condemned as sin in the bible, same gender " marriage" is even a bigger abomination in the eyes of God because it additionally corrupts and perverts the instituition of marriage which He ordained. I sympathise with the state you are in but if you ever wish to harbour even a small hope of entering heaven, you need to first start with acknowledging the fact that homosexuality is sin in God's eyes. Knowing & embracing God's truth is always the first step.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"And if homosexuality has been condemned as sin in the bible, same gender " marriage" is even a bigger abomination in the eyes of God because it additionally corrupts and perverts the instituition of marriage which He ordained..."
This is a product of your own subjective belief of the Bible and our Lord's will which you would probably have others accept as evidence of devine condemnation which you DON'T have. Your belief and "God's view" are NOT neccessarily or entirely one and the same.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 You are the one being greatly deluded by the devil. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 clearly tells us .." Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, etc...will inherit the kingdom of God." If you cannot even understand these simple verses, it is your belief that is subjective, false and against the word of God. Homosexuality is one of the hardest sins to be freed from because of the very great deception that it surrounds its victim with.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"You are the one being greatly deluded by the devil."
And again, the charge of such influence is made by those who could themselves be under such influence. The Pharisees made a similar charge against Christ, discrediting themselves in the process.
." Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR HOMOSEXUALS, NOR SODOMITES, etc..."
Yet again, the New KJV from which you quote makes the correction of "homosexual" with "catamite," a young juvenille... (Cont.)
clay56 8 months ago
Part 2
...Prostitute. This again is not reflective of all same gender relationships. It's you who does not appear to understand the verse. You can keep re-stating the same accusations and citing the same verses if you wish to draw attention away from the fact that you can provide NO Biblical proof of devine condemnation of all same gender relationships, namely marriage. Yet you judge on our Lord's behalf anyway, potentially placing yourself in the greatest need of His forgiveness.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 If you can't even make the simple logical connection between the biblical fact that 1 Corinthians 6:9 condemns homosexuality as a sin, and the implied corollary (a true logical inference) that therefore same gender relationships and marriage, is also sin and an abomination in God's eyes, are you not truly and totally deluded? You need to go take a class on what is logic and logical thinking. Yours has been definitely impaired, and most definitely by your homosexual belief &/or practice.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
If you can't even make the simple logical connection between the biblical fact that 1 Corinthians 6:9 condemns homosexuality as a sin, and the implied corollary (a true logical inference) that therefore same gender relationships and marriage, is also sin and an abomination in God's eyes.
Something percieved "simple" and "logical" is NOT neccessarily or entirely true. I respect your belief, yet you have no documentation to support the devine condemnation of all same gender relationships.
clay56 8 months ago
"If you can't even make the simple logical connection between the biblical fact that 1 Corinthians 6:9 condemns homosexuality as a sin, and the implied corollary (a true logical inference) that therefore same gender relationships and marriage, is also sin and an abomination in God's eyes."
Something can be "simple" and "logical" and still not neccessarily be true. I respect your belief, yet you have no documentation to support the devine condemnation of all same gender relationships.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 The only reason why you cannot see the "simple & logical connection " between the sinful practice of homosexuality and the sinfulness of same gender relationship is that the practice of homosexuality has, apart from blinding you to the truth of God's word, also impaired & made defective your logical faculty. I have had YT discussions with many homosexuals and all of them had the same impairment of their logical faculty. This is a fact. Some people call it "the denial syndrome".
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
"The only reason why you cannot see the "simple & logical connection " between the sinful practice of homosexuality and the sinfulness of same gender relationship is that the practice of homosexuality has, apart from blinding you to the truth of God's word, also impaired & made defective your logical faculty."
Again, what may be logical isn't always, entirely or even partly true. Since there is no Biblical documentation against SG marriage, it's also logical you could VERY well be wrong.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 It is pointless for me to continue my dialogue with you when you have already entered the "denial" mode and suspended your logical faculty.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
" It is pointless for me to continue my dialogue with you when you have already entered the "denial" mode and suspended your logical faculty."
According to the NT all sexual relations are sin outside marriage.To state the advocacy for the marriage of one orientation must mean NOTHING short of the devine exclusion of another without supportive Biblical documentation is to presume too much on our Creator's behalf. This is what brings your own "logic" into question.
clay56 8 months ago
@clay56 While you are right in saying that all sexual relations outside marriage are sin where the bible is concerned, you need to work on your definition of "marriage". Where God is concerned, there is only one definition, that is the union of a man to a woman in holy matrimony, NOT a union of a man to another man, and NOT a union of a woman to another woman. Until you rid your self of the " denial syndrome" in this matter, you are just deluding yourself or you are being deluded by the devil.
opsvideo2008 8 months ago
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"Where God is concerned, there is only one definition, that is the union of a man to a woman in holy matrimony, NOT a union of a man to another man, and NOT a union of a woman to another woman...."
Such is your opionion of His will and is NOT Biblically specified. The latter in particular seems to be something about which yourself are in "denial."
clay56 8 months ago
there is no such thing as a 'gay'. We call someone who steals a 'thief', someone who lies a 'liar' and a sexual deviant either an 'adulterer' or 'gay'. but before God they are all men or women who have made a choice that opposes His will. God's word to them does not change, it is always "REPENT!! REPENT!! REPENT!!"
those who obey and turn from wickedness and by faith seek Jesus Christ with all their mind and body, they will be saved in the end. All others will burn forever.
servant714 9 months ago
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"there is no such thing as a 'gay'. We call someone who steals a 'thief', someone who lies a 'liar' and a sexual deviant either an 'adulterer' or 'gay'."
Gay Christians are often grouped in with thieves and adulters in an effort to condemn them.
"those who obey and turn from wickedness and by faith seek Jesus Christ with all their mind and body"
The same Christ said nothing about homosexuality.
clay56 9 months ago
We should love all, love the person hate the sin. Continued prayers for them but also offer a kind word & help. Pray for all persons that are lost & pray for their salvation!
forevablessed3 9 months ago
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clay56 9 months ago
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"We should love all, love the person hate the sin."
A person's sexual orientation is very much a part of what makes him/her who he/she is, so it's somewhere between VERY difficult and impossible to hate one without hating both.
"Pray for all persons that are lost & pray for their salvation!"
Good advice to anyone regardless of their spiritual beliefs.
clay56 9 months ago
Fear and hatred? Not from me. I'd invite a gay person to church, but I would not support a church that gave him/her membership. Gays in the congregation, ok. Gay membership or leadership? No. It's about holiness and accountability to God. I'm sorry, I didn't make it to the gay community today. I also forgot to witness to alchoholics, criminals, and others sinners like me. I do admit I need to do that.
mewest2011 10 months ago
"I didn't make it to the gay community today. I also forgot to witness to alchoholics, criminals, and others sinners like me. I do admit I need to do that."
Fortunately many heterosexual Christians DON'T believe homosexuals fall into such a comparison, believing instead that different sexual orientations are like different eye, hair or skin color. But we know that no one has tried to Biblically justify a prejudice for those kind of attributes.
clay56 10 months ago
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So what, I've never told a pedophile that indorse their warped ideas either, And that is a sexual preference as well, and I most certainly WON'T tell them that "...I will for you the same rights and privileges that I enjoy as a heteral sexual."
TOTAL GARBAGE!
pretoshohmoofc 1 year ago
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nicksum29 1 year ago
I wish I could understand this video because I need to be able to talk to my parents about my brother's homosexuality, but I am Brazilian and I haven't total understanding of English
Naide19 1 year ago
@Naide19
If I can help, please let me know.
peterpulpitpounder 10 months ago
Most Christians are contradictions anyway. They don't resemble the Gospel of Jesus at all. Only uneducated judgment.
MassiveFaith 1 year ago
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"wanting to rape the angles of God would an act of inhospitality, the HS penned the bible which says plenty about the filthy proud sin of homosexuality."
1. Rapests are not representative of all homosexuals.
2. It's not even certain rape was the intention of the mob. All those who argue it was use the Hebrew word for "know" to justify their claim. But this term has ELEVEN different definations.
A SINGLE word with MANY meanings is being exploited to condemn homosexuality.
clay56 1 year ago 2
Jude was born nearly as long after Lot as we were after Jude. So it's very possible he wrote based on what he'd had read or heard from others about about Sodom in his own era especially since neither Christ or subsequent Old Testament books mention homosexuality in relation to Sodom.
clay56 1 year ago
@clay56 wanting to rape the angles of God would an act of inhospitality, the HS penned the bible which says plenty about the filthy proud sin of homosexuality. go to youtube & watch John MacArthur's abandoned by God, the eight min version.
TAKEHEED1 1 year ago
@TAKEHEED1 How in the heck can a human rape an angel (or an "angle," as you put it)????? Angels don't have bodies last time I checked. Give me a freaking break. Tell your God to kiss my arse. And while you're at it, you can kiss it too, when you're through making out with your cousin.
jajohnson7809 1 year ago
"Jesus doesn't condone homosexuality, in fact he says flee from sexual immorality."
He said sexual relations outside the boundary of marriage were immoral. Yet five states currently recognize same gender marriage. And informal ceremonies may be conducted where it is not recognized.
"Church leadership cannot be allowed to teach that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle,"
For many it is more than a lifestyle but a LIFE. And only our Lord can say what church practices are TRULY proper.
clay56 1 year ago
There's nothing of homosexuality in Christ's mention of Sodom. Sodom's actual sin was believed to be that of inhospitality.
clay56 1 year ago
@clay56 Book of Jude, Fag sex is what doomed sodom
TAKEHEED1 1 year ago
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@TAKEHEED1 fag sex? And you 'pretend' to be Christian? What a primitive mind.
MassiveFaith 1 year ago
"And Jesus doesn't condone homosexuality."
Neither does He condemn it.
clay56 1 year ago
@clay56 Sure he does. Look @ Sodom
TAKEHEED1 1 year ago
Oh Tony just shut your mouth, Psalm 5:5
TAKEHEED1 1 year ago
@TAKEHEED1 That was before Jesus. God now hates no one, John 3:16
kbaugh19 1 year ago
@kbaugh19 Read on John 3:16-19 And Jesus doesn't condone homosexuality. The God of the old Testament & Jesus are one in the same. The Trinity the Lord is God the Lord is One.
TAKEHEED1 1 year ago
@TAKEHEED1 I agree. Jesus doesn't condone homosexuality, in fact he says flee from sexual immorality. I agree they are the same God as well, we just have a new promise since Jesus. Jesus does not condone sexuality, but it's not OUR job to judge anyone. Church leadership cannot be allowed to teach that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle, but we must still reach out our arms to all people in love. We must not forget that "while we were still sinners Christ died for us." All of us.
kbaugh19 1 year ago