"You make a mistake, you start thinking about the mistake, you begin to make more and more errors. This is a very familiar syndrome. We call it 'checkitis' in aviation." -John Nance
From 37:48 on PBS Nova's "The Deadliest Plane Crash."
The nicer you are to New Yorkers the more they will be rude to you. You have talk to them the same aggressive way as they talk to you from the start, then they treat you with respect. JFK, and entire New York Approach for that matter, are no different.
I feel bad for this guy, in the airport im training a private pilot lost his license because he crossed the line! he was told to hold short runway 13 and he crossed it, so i dont know what happened to this guy, i guess he lost his license or at least he got grounded, you can't mistake runways like that, anyway this pilots were flying an old 767 from ecuador. Any pilot that flies that 767 for about 8 hours has to be really tired at the end, he was really scared the atc wasn't helping the guy :(
I would have made a left turn towards the tower, dumped some fuel on it, passed over it a second time in order to ignite it with the hot exhaust. Seriously, in other countries this controller would have gotten help, in some forced. Pilots and controllers make mistakes, no need to loose temperament, makes things worse. It distracts, in this example the pilot overshot the assigned altitude.
@nyc14gauge Just a departure frequency, the "WTF are you doing" convo takes place after landing. The ground controllers are usually the ones to give you the phone number to call. I actually feel bad, because this Aerogol guy was scared sh**less after realizing his mistake, you can tell his attention was averted due to his climb to 2,400 after being assigned 2,000. Mistakes like that can really go to your head if you let it. It has happened to me a few times, and I'm sure has happened to most.
the accident you talk about happened just 2 or 3 weaks ago while this video was uploaded about 8 month ago , and egypt air does not have the boeing 767
To the guy who mentioned this. The phraseology "Line up and wait" has replaced "position and hold". I don't know why, to me "position and hold" sounds more professional.
"Line up and wait" was used worldwide, it made sense for the US to go along and adhere to the same standard. I have also hear that "position and hold" is believed by some to be too similar to "position and go" - which isn't really standard phraseology, but could still be confused by non-native English speakers: I don't know if this second interpretation has any merit - I think the idea was simply to adhere to the worldwide aviation English standard of "Line up and wait".
"Line up and wait" was used worldwide, it made sense for the US to go along and adhere to the same standard. I have also heard that "position and hold" is believed by some to be too similar to "position and go" - which isn't really standard phraseology, but could still be confused by non-native English speakers: I don't know if this second interpretation has any merit - I think the idea was simply to adhere to the worldwide aviation English standard of "Line up and wait".
@msk7046 Means the Aerogal pilot(s) have to call Kennedy Tower to talk to them about nearly causing an accident. Not only will they have to talk to the tower, but when they get back home, they'll be doing a 'carpet dance' with their Chief Pilot.
@msk7046 what it means is that the Aerogal pilot has to talk to the ATC and the Controller is going to give him one hell of a verbal ass-beating. I'm serious, that Aerogal pilot is going to go home with teeth marks and DEEP boot impressions all over his ass. I'd hate to be him!
Same in France. When a plane isn't directly cleared for take-off, ATC always say "line up and wait".
If the delta pilot hasn't noticed the mistake of the Aerogal pilot, this could have been a new air crash investigation story. Congrats to delta pilot for his awareness !
sounds to me like the areogal pilot needs to go back to school to learn how to follow instructions. steve instructed him 3 times to climb to 2000 and maintain. and 2 times to make a 180 heading and twice for 200 and twice to turn right.... what a shame.
@shane95670 sounds like you're a pilot for many years and surely know that going around in such heavy traffic and stress conditions is as easy as bicycle ride?
besides they probably had before landing briefing about go-around procedures and when the controller tells you "oh, turn somewhere right..immediately!" it's such a mess. the pilot did a mistake but we all do.
its easy to complain when you're seating at home, not at the controls of the jet liner that is about to collide with another one
It has to be granted that this instruction - "go around, fly runway heading, because you're lining up with the wrong runway, you need to start an immediate right turn" - can be confusing. Is it runway heading or right turn?
@flyingtrashbin The initial "mistake" is one thing, a bad one but forgivable. Not following clear instructions to turn, maintain altitude, and switch frequencies is all indicative of someone floding under pressure. The guy bailed out and panicked under a little bit of strain. As someone who flies that airspace often I can tell you, this wasn't one mistake he made. This guy should be violated.
@Quillons1 yeah, i trust your opinion since it has been carefully considered. let it be so, they both shitted there in the cockpit. i guess there are lots of pilots like these as long as they go on making safe landings while confusing left to right.
"Line up and wait" is the new policy in the USA. The rest of the ATC world uses "Line up and wait" so the USA decided to change the verbage to be in uniform with the rest of the world.
what a shame on Ecuador..!.. Aerogal´s pilot didnt understand the instruction 3times.. shouldnt flight there if he doesnt speak english so good!.. ATC speaks clearly..!
I just found out about aerogal inccident today, this is bad for aerogal...i can see where this is going probably FAA will blame this pilot for not meeting the english language requirements.
Line Up and Wait is replacing Taxi into position and hold to conform to ICAO standards. Apparently, some folks were confusing "taxi into position and hold" with taxi into position and go so the verbiage has been changed.
have you noticed now the JFK controllers now use the wording "Line up & Wait" rather than "position and hold" i wonder why? - i ve noticed listening to Haneda (Japan) ATC they too use "line up & wait" phrase.
@oneofthemdeals theres an organization called ICAO. International Civil Aviation Organization. They make the rules for civil aviation and in order to have same stuff everywhere phraseology and other stuff is being changed to achieve that
LOLOL so let me guess your some wanna pilot who has never touched the controls of an aircraft and who thinks he knows all right? Im guessing your some young 16 year old prick kid who has no clue what the fuck he is talking about. I answered your question grow some nuts and take it vagina. get real. Only kids make comments like that on youtube.
@oneofthemdeals Being a pilot myself, the FAA changed this back in the fall of 2010. The reason for this is that everyone else in the world uses "Line up and wait." Being part of ICAO, we strive to have consistency throughout aviation around the world. Also, because english is not some of the pilots' first language, "Line up and wait" is clearer and more direct, believe it or not.
Why do they title it/call it a "near miss"? It's a near HIT. A COLLISION is a 'near miss'. *BOOM* Oh look, they nearly missed....
babytweeze85 1 month ago
"You make a mistake, you start thinking about the mistake, you begin to make more and more errors. This is a very familiar syndrome. We call it 'checkitis' in aviation." -John Nance
From 37:48 on PBS Nova's "The Deadliest Plane Crash."
radtech21 1 month ago
For people who has in mind hundreds of checklists and who's able to fly a plane, a left or right mistake is HUGE!
marchesedesade89 1 month ago
thanks for posting and warning us never to
fly aerogal xD
USARMz 1 month ago
The nicer you are to New Yorkers the more they will be rude to you. You have talk to them the same aggressive way as they talk to you from the start, then they treat you with respect. JFK, and entire New York Approach for that matter, are no different.
tiverton 1 month ago
How much ATController average salary at such airport? Job seems to be a little bit stressful.
nim154 1 month ago
I feel bad for this guy, in the airport im training a private pilot lost his license because he crossed the line! he was told to hold short runway 13 and he crossed it, so i dont know what happened to this guy, i guess he lost his license or at least he got grounded, you can't mistake runways like that, anyway this pilots were flying an old 767 from ecuador. Any pilot that flies that 767 for about 8 hours has to be really tired at the end, he was really scared the atc wasn't helping the guy :(
mariodela 2 months ago
I would have made a left turn towards the tower, dumped some fuel on it, passed over it a second time in order to ignite it with the hot exhaust. Seriously, in other countries this controller would have gotten help, in some forced. Pilots and controllers make mistakes, no need to loose temperament, makes things worse. It distracts, in this example the pilot overshot the assigned altitude.
pacidessi 2 months ago
Welcome to NY bitch.
ProPainC63 3 months ago
I assume contacting JFK on frequency 125.7 is to have the "WTF Are you doing?!?!?!" conversation?
nyc14gauge 4 months ago
@nyc14gauge Just a departure frequency, the "WTF are you doing" convo takes place after landing. The ground controllers are usually the ones to give you the phone number to call. I actually feel bad, because this Aerogol guy was scared sh**less after realizing his mistake, you can tell his attention was averted due to his climb to 2,400 after being assigned 2,000. Mistakes like that can really go to your head if you let it. It has happened to me a few times, and I'm sure has happened to most.
akkalakakalakka 4 months ago
2:06 aerogal 700 hvy, go around, fly rwy heading, ... you need to start an immiediate right turn
efastMixer 6 months ago
@efastMixer Yeah, I noticed that as well, BIG F* up by the Aerogal pilots but definitely NOT helped by conflicting ATC instructions.
radtech21 1 month ago
the pilot of the airline removed the license by the civil aviation authority of Ecuador
marcopaul1 6 months ago
Note to self: Don´t fly Aerogal!
Stojan75 7 months ago
Wait, is that guy the same as the Egyptian guy for the other near miss at /watch?v=Wtlfmvbp2jo ??? I think so, what an idiot OMG
JiS01 8 months ago
@JiS01 Absolutely NOT the same pilots involved.
kenadamsusa 8 months ago
@JiS01
the accident you talk about happened just 2 or 3 weaks ago while this video was uploaded about 8 month ago , and egypt air does not have the boeing 767
3agamsta 7 months ago
I think this happens every day, too busy airport just a matter of time for a collission CAN'T be averted!
JiS01 8 months ago
@JiS01 This does NOT happen every day.
kenadamsusa 8 months ago 9
To the guy who mentioned this. The phraseology "Line up and wait" has replaced "position and hold". I don't know why, to me "position and hold" sounds more professional.
fastfiddler1625 8 months ago 2
@fastfiddler1625
"Line up and wait" was used worldwide, it made sense for the US to go along and adhere to the same standard. I have also hear that "position and hold" is believed by some to be too similar to "position and go" - which isn't really standard phraseology, but could still be confused by non-native English speakers: I don't know if this second interpretation has any merit - I think the idea was simply to adhere to the worldwide aviation English standard of "Line up and wait".
kenadamsusa 8 months ago
@fastfiddler1625
"Line up and wait" was used worldwide, it made sense for the US to go along and adhere to the same standard. I have also heard that "position and hold" is believed by some to be too similar to "position and go" - which isn't really standard phraseology, but could still be confused by non-native English speakers: I don't know if this second interpretation has any merit - I think the idea was simply to adhere to the worldwide aviation English standard of "Line up and wait".
kenadamsusa 8 months ago
those aerogal pilots are like, "wait, what?" they are soooo slooooow
jfsa380 8 months ago
OMG DID THEY DIED
comcfi 8 months ago
At 2:39, it looks like the AF011 pilot voice. Maybe it's not... but it looks like a voice with a little french accent.
TheRaptor3945 10 months ago
@rjmwebdesign
you can stop looking like a hero. i got ALL the comments about line up and wait. no need to jump in and flood my inbox with someone i already know
oneofthemdeals 11 months ago
it just goes to show that pilots have to be the eyes and ear for each other too.
mmissthangg1 11 months ago
it sounded like Aerogal was about to cry. damn i would be haha.
JeighEigh 11 months ago
I bet that guy got "the phone number to call"
Eheld786 11 months ago 14
@Eheld786 ---May I ask what that means? ('I bet that guy got the phone number to call').....
Thanks.
msk7046 10 months ago
@msk7046 Means the Aerogal pilot(s) have to call Kennedy Tower to talk to them about nearly causing an accident. Not only will they have to talk to the tower, but when they get back home, they'll be doing a 'carpet dance' with their Chief Pilot.
TheCriticalCanadian 10 months ago
@msk7046 Yeah tower told him to call so this guy could complain more.
FlyingPhoAddict 9 months ago
@msk7046 what it means is that the Aerogal pilot has to talk to the ATC and the Controller is going to give him one hell of a verbal ass-beating. I'm serious, that Aerogal pilot is going to go home with teeth marks and DEEP boot impressions all over his ass. I'd hate to be him!
Darthbelal 7 months ago
que verguenza!
americadecali45 1 year ago
jfk controllers is on it lol
DynastyLang 1 year ago
Poor pilot sounded traumatized.
AtcOnDemand 1 year ago
the atc guy seems really pissed
icandestroy 1 year ago
Same in France. When a plane isn't directly cleared for take-off, ATC always say "line up and wait".
If the delta pilot hasn't noticed the mistake of the Aerogal pilot, this could have been a new air crash investigation story. Congrats to delta pilot for his awareness !
TheRaptor3945 1 year ago
outcha pilot of delta 122. Quick thinking indeed.
ATC did well too. Potential disaster avoided.
connellrocraymond 1 year ago
sounds to me like the areogal pilot needs to go back to school to learn how to follow instructions. steve instructed him 3 times to climb to 2000 and maintain. and 2 times to make a 180 heading and twice for 200 and twice to turn right.... what a shame.
shane95670 1 year ago
@shane95670 sounds like you're a pilot for many years and surely know that going around in such heavy traffic and stress conditions is as easy as bicycle ride?
besides they probably had before landing briefing about go-around procedures and when the controller tells you "oh, turn somewhere right..immediately!" it's such a mess. the pilot did a mistake but we all do.
its easy to complain when you're seating at home, not at the controls of the jet liner that is about to collide with another one
flyingtrashbin 1 year ago 2
@flyingtrashbin
It has to be granted that this instruction - "go around, fly runway heading, because you're lining up with the wrong runway, you need to start an immediate right turn" - can be confusing. Is it runway heading or right turn?
kenadamsusa 1 year ago
@flyingtrashbin The initial "mistake" is one thing, a bad one but forgivable. Not following clear instructions to turn, maintain altitude, and switch frequencies is all indicative of someone floding under pressure. The guy bailed out and panicked under a little bit of strain. As someone who flies that airspace often I can tell you, this wasn't one mistake he made. This guy should be violated.
Quillons1 1 year ago
@Quillons1 yeah, i trust your opinion since it has been carefully considered. let it be so, they both shitted there in the cockpit. i guess there are lots of pilots like these as long as they go on making safe landings while confusing left to right.
flyingtrashbin 1 year ago
"Line up and wait" is the new policy in the USA. The rest of the ATC world uses "Line up and wait" so the USA decided to change the verbage to be in uniform with the rest of the world.
Trahilliard 1 year ago
what a shame on Ecuador..!.. Aerogal´s pilot didnt understand the instruction 3times.. shouldnt flight there if he doesnt speak english so good!.. ATC speaks clearly..!
arvitolu 1 year ago
I just found out about aerogal inccident today, this is bad for aerogal...i can see where this is going probably FAA will blame this pilot for not meeting the english language requirements.
dacmone 1 year ago
Line Up and Wait is replacing Taxi into position and hold to conform to ICAO standards. Apparently, some folks were confusing "taxi into position and hold" with taxi into position and go so the verbiage has been changed.
ualtim 1 year ago
First it was KLM645, then it was KL644? :)
YorranSlik 1 year ago
@YorranSlik
Just a wrong readback. It happens.
kenadamsusa 1 year ago 4
That was a close one - thats all I can say! I have there App on my iPhone.
killerjake9000 1 year ago
have you noticed now the JFK controllers now use the wording "Line up & Wait" rather than "position and hold" i wonder why? - i ve noticed listening to Haneda (Japan) ATC they too use "line up & wait" phrase.
oneofthemdeals 1 year ago
@oneofthemdeals
You might find this video interesting: youtube.com/watch?v=d0VkL3zVErU&feature=related
kenadamsusa 1 year ago
@oneofthemdeals Its because the US ATC system is now conforming with ICAO standards.
calltipv2 1 year ago
@oneofthemdeals FAA decided to use the ICAO phraselogy "line up and wait" starting from 2010-9-30
jbskies 1 year ago
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actionmindless 1 year ago
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actionmindless 1 year ago
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actionmindless 1 year ago
@oneofthemdeals
Rules changed, no more position and hold intructions, it created hesitation that could lead to an accident
merto31 1 year ago
@oneofthemdeals About 3 months ago, The FAA changed the phraseology to "Line Up and Wait" from "Position and Hold".
sioux0863 1 year ago
@sioux0863 i get the picture now. no need to reply and be repetitive
oneofthemdeals 1 year ago
@oneofthemdeals theres an organization called ICAO. International Civil Aviation Organization. They make the rules for civil aviation and in order to have same stuff everywhere phraseology and other stuff is being changed to achieve that
LC44A 1 year ago
@oneofthemdeals They switched to ICAO phraseology. I think this change happened in the US in 2009 or 2010. No more "position and hold."
angelfuree 1 year ago
@oneofthemdeals Line up and Wait is used allover the world, it looks like it will be in use in USA too.
progress4 11 months ago
@oneofthemdeals it's the new phraseology the FAA put in the JO 7110.65
fordairport1 11 months ago
@oneofthemdeals They Changed it Line up is corect
kyCap222 11 months ago
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602780573 10 months ago
@oneofthemdeals "Position and hold" has been used in the US for decades, it was changed this summed to "line up and wait".
MrYaricks 10 months ago
@oneofthemdeals
FAA new REG. All Airports across the country does it.
zseartcc25 10 months ago
@zseartcc25 tell me something i dont f-ing know - jackass
oneofthemdeals 10 months ago
@oneofthemdeals
LOLOL so let me guess your some wanna pilot who has never touched the controls of an aircraft and who thinks he knows all right? Im guessing your some young 16 year old prick kid who has no clue what the fuck he is talking about. I answered your question grow some nuts and take it vagina. get real. Only kids make comments like that on youtube.
zseartcc25 10 months ago
@zseartcc25 u just showed who's child like with those classy profound words u just came up with. u showed a lot of sophistication.
oneofthemdeals 10 months ago
@oneofthemdeals
how long did it take you to find out how to use the words profound and sophistication in a sentence.
zseartcc25 10 months ago
@oneofthemdeals Being a pilot myself, the FAA changed this back in the fall of 2010. The reason for this is that everyone else in the world uses "Line up and wait." Being part of ICAO, we strive to have consistency throughout aviation around the world. Also, because english is not some of the pilots' first language, "Line up and wait" is clearer and more direct, believe it or not.
JDProductionsINC 9 months ago
ahh. you missed the part where the aerogal pilot got the wrong freq..
i remember listening to this. this occured on a Sunday evening. that pilot was all mixed up...lol
steve is one of my favorite controllers. he's got a great sense of humor...
oneofthemdeals 1 year ago
@oneofthemdeals
Yeah. I had already edited most of the video when I realized I had missed that...
kenadamsusa 1 year ago
@oneofthemdeals please can you post the edited part?
aviadorsolitario 1 year ago
Wow... I wouldn´t wanna fly with them!
skazhiprivet 1 year ago