I am 52 and follower of Ishmael for 10 yrs with the book and an unknowing follower for a few more. I am working diligently to spread the word as a B via an internet talk show to create an opt out/tribal culture too. will post sites and show etc. shortly. screw Mother culture and its life destroying controlling ways. quit playing. quit fostering. quit feeding that nasty bitch.
tribal sounds great, but it is more about the stuff allowing people to become members of a functional tribe, about the software...I struggle to feel connected to the society around me because when i adress it, it seems my discourse is bent on changing it...and soooo...I feel and appear more like an outsider. You and many of my friends at least seem to be surrounded by people more like yourselfs.
But yes, a tribe has always seemed to me closer to functional than the abstract mass arrangement.
Tribes had a rich poor system; the Pacific Northwest cultural system of potlatches that basically created a rich and poor/slave society.
When a hunter of any group of people came back the leader and/or the hunter/s would get the best cuts and parts of the animal going down the line the lowest outcasts/untouchables/social pariahs/slaves would eithier have to beg for what was left or get the least wanted cuts.
Communalism is the answer; read about a Kibbutz not about tribal societies.
I think Tribal is just fine. All word wars are worth fighting. And if it is tribal that needs understanding, then keep pushing the term. Socialism has a bad ring to it now, thanks to the media and it's puppets.
In fact, putting "ism" after anything lends itself to attacker, while democraCY remains untouched.
CommunISM, CapitalISM, TribalISM, SexISM, RacISM, etc.
Adam, the words "tribe" and "tribal" do not have to be perceived as pejorative. Perhaps you could still use these word. Tribes can be many things can they not? Are tribes really egalitarian? Need they be egalitarian?
the defining feature of this evolutionarily developed way of life seems to weigh in heavy on the "egalitarian-aspect" of tribalism. it has a lot to do with personal happiness and self-expression within a group that fosters purpose and meaning for the whole.
I think religion is a tribe or at least an attempt at a tribe. This is why some nation states have feared / attacked religions because they saw a competing interest. Bismarck's Germany attacked Catholics and made anti-Catholic legislation fearing a political hegemony from Rome for example. Tribes in very ancient times before nation states, had their own religions. Even today nations and nation states have their own churches. So I think religions are tribal.
ok, i think i'm getting the gest of what you're thinking. what i observe is this: religion in western culture is a response to the overwhelming stress of disconnection with the rest of the community of life and the absence of purpose and meaning as a human being. salvation is needed because it is believed we are flawed and need redemption to save us from this miserable existence. you will not find this in any indigenous culture; no saviours, no priests, no canonization of beliefs.
that religious groups can organize themselves in a tribal manner is possible, i believe. though, i know of no civilized folk in religious organizations who have done this; distinct leaders are visible; ie. one sits and is preached to. the rigidity of ceremony is maintained and spontaneity is not allowed, which is the central focus of ritual in indigenous life allowing all to 'commune' individually together as opposed to prayer that happens alone or quietly in ones own mind. unless u r a penecost
But as Thomas Szasz says, and I paraphrase: the mind and soul used to be the remit of the priest, now it is the remit of the mental health doctor.
Back to my opinions: well, still many people are religious, or influenced by religious doctrine and teachings, so even with religion separated from political position, the fear from religion still has much power and influence on the minds of the religious and even the non religious who were brought up with religious teachings or were once religious.
this is would be an accurate assumption for western civilization, where the priests are sharing the control of minds/spirit with tv and the purveyors of media/politics/etc...
this does not accurately reflect the rest (3 or 4 million years) of human experience. and yeah, the influence of religion is pervasive even for those of us who don't participate in it.
Although "tribe" and "tribal" don't have to be pejorative, I'm afraid that some people will automatically react negativly and block out the message all together. I'd rather use a different word to strengthen the ideas. Changed minds know what it means to go tribal. Most people think it's a brutish state.
Yay...Adam's back. Room 105 is always a great place to be. That poster is awesome...I'm totally printing that out and putting it up all over town! Walk away...go tribal. It just works, ok?! THIS WAY OF LIFE DOESN'T! Look around at the present...look back at the past...and then look forward towards the future. Take steps towards a way of life that DOES WORK FOR YOU! Respect!
I don't personally think egalitarianism quite fits in this situation, because it doesn't infer the separation into or even existence of tribes.
I think we actually naturally separate into tribes, even today. We find a group of friends that we like and that treat us the way we like to be treated. Usually they are small, close groups.
But this practice alone doesn't automatically demand a hunter/gatherer lifestyle.
"But this practice alone doesn't automatically demand a hunter/gatherer lifestyle" Absolutly agree they are H/G and tribal organization are mutually exclusive terms.
"I think we naturally separate into tribes" I also agree with this. What's cool with Meadowlark is that we've come together to make a living and then also form close friendships which is apart of the tribal benifit.
"I don't personally think egalitarianism quite fits in this situation.." That's a good point. Egalitarianism only signifies the lack of hierarchy not the grouping of people into small groups. This is where bbbleavers video "channel capacity" comes into play.
I am 52 and follower of Ishmael for 10 yrs with the book and an unknowing follower for a few more. I am working diligently to spread the word as a B via an internet talk show to create an opt out/tribal culture too. will post sites and show etc. shortly. screw Mother culture and its life destroying controlling ways. quit playing. quit fostering. quit feeding that nasty bitch.
berserkerkev 2 years ago
tribal sounds great, but it is more about the stuff allowing people to become members of a functional tribe, about the software...I struggle to feel connected to the society around me because when i adress it, it seems my discourse is bent on changing it...and soooo...I feel and appear more like an outsider. You and many of my friends at least seem to be surrounded by people more like yourselfs.
But yes, a tribe has always seemed to me closer to functional than the abstract mass arrangement.
permacultureli 2 years ago
Tribes had a rich poor system; the Pacific Northwest cultural system of potlatches that basically created a rich and poor/slave society.
When a hunter of any group of people came back the leader and/or the hunter/s would get the best cuts and parts of the animal going down the line the lowest outcasts/untouchables/social pariahs/slaves would eithier have to beg for what was left or get the least wanted cuts.
Communalism is the answer; read about a Kibbutz not about tribal societies.
BgnrMdl1 3 years ago
idk, tribalism didn't seem to work very well in Lord of the Flies, as far as i have read (we're reading it in my English class)
berniemacster 3 years ago
I think Lord of the flies is more about communism than it is tribalism.
AdamHintz 3 years ago
Haha, that's funny
berniemacster 3 years ago
I think Tribal is just fine. All word wars are worth fighting. And if it is tribal that needs understanding, then keep pushing the term. Socialism has a bad ring to it now, thanks to the media and it's puppets.
In fact, putting "ism" after anything lends itself to attacker, while democraCY remains untouched.
CommunISM, CapitalISM, TribalISM, SexISM, RacISM, etc.
Maybe we should call it Tibalcy?
dQuarters 3 years ago
Dammit, Adam, you're just so darn smart. Seriously. Thank you. :)
ozjthomas 3 years ago
Ha! No, I just like to spread memes. Thanks for the support!
AdamHintz 3 years ago
You're welcome. Seeing this stuff is so very important, because we're so used to it, we don't even think about it.
ozjthomas 3 years ago
Adam, the words "tribe" and "tribal" do not have to be perceived as pejorative. Perhaps you could still use these word. Tribes can be many things can they not? Are tribes really egalitarian? Need they be egalitarian?
fr3thinker 3 years ago
the defining feature of this evolutionarily developed way of life seems to weigh in heavy on the "egalitarian-aspect" of tribalism. it has a lot to do with personal happiness and self-expression within a group that fosters purpose and meaning for the whole.
bbbleaver 3 years ago
So, a religion is a tribe?
fr3thinker 3 years ago
not even close...
bbbleaver 3 years ago
I think religion is a tribe or at least an attempt at a tribe. This is why some nation states have feared / attacked religions because they saw a competing interest. Bismarck's Germany attacked Catholics and made anti-Catholic legislation fearing a political hegemony from Rome for example. Tribes in very ancient times before nation states, had their own religions. Even today nations and nation states have their own churches. So I think religions are tribal.
fr3thinker 3 years ago
What is the social organization of a religion?
AdamHintz 3 years ago
I think certain congregations could be considered tribes, but as for their entire religious sect...hail no.
dnHooligan 3 years ago
ok, i think i'm getting the gest of what you're thinking. what i observe is this: religion in western culture is a response to the overwhelming stress of disconnection with the rest of the community of life and the absence of purpose and meaning as a human being. salvation is needed because it is believed we are flawed and need redemption to save us from this miserable existence. you will not find this in any indigenous culture; no saviours, no priests, no canonization of beliefs.
bbbleaver 3 years ago 2
that religious groups can organize themselves in a tribal manner is possible, i believe. though, i know of no civilized folk in religious organizations who have done this; distinct leaders are visible; ie. one sits and is preached to. the rigidity of ceremony is maintained and spontaneity is not allowed, which is the central focus of ritual in indigenous life allowing all to 'commune' individually together as opposed to prayer that happens alone or quietly in ones own mind. unless u r a penecost
bbbleaver 3 years ago
But as Thomas Szasz says, and I paraphrase: the mind and soul used to be the remit of the priest, now it is the remit of the mental health doctor.
Back to my opinions: well, still many people are religious, or influenced by religious doctrine and teachings, so even with religion separated from political position, the fear from religion still has much power and influence on the minds of the religious and even the non religious who were brought up with religious teachings or were once religious.
fr3thinker 3 years ago
"...the remit of the priest,..."
this is would be an accurate assumption for western civilization, where the priests are sharing the control of minds/spirit with tv and the purveyors of media/politics/etc...
this does not accurately reflect the rest (3 or 4 million years) of human experience. and yeah, the influence of religion is pervasive even for those of us who don't participate in it.
bbbleaver 3 years ago
Although "tribe" and "tribal" don't have to be pejorative, I'm afraid that some people will automatically react negativly and block out the message all together. I'd rather use a different word to strengthen the ideas. Changed minds know what it means to go tribal. Most people think it's a brutish state.
AdamHintz 3 years ago
hey adam, ay filthy! an da hooligan!
i'm uploading my vids to bigappy right now... see ya soon
bbbleaver 3 years ago
Yay...Adam's back. Room 105 is always a great place to be. That poster is awesome...I'm totally printing that out and putting it up all over town! Walk away...go tribal. It just works, ok?! THIS WAY OF LIFE DOESN'T! Look around at the present...look back at the past...and then look forward towards the future. Take steps towards a way of life that DOES WORK FOR YOU! Respect!
ItsFilthy 3 years ago
Thanks for the kind words. Exactly find what works. Tribal organization works!
AdamHintz 3 years ago
I don't personally think egalitarianism quite fits in this situation, because it doesn't infer the separation into or even existence of tribes.
I think we actually naturally separate into tribes, even today. We find a group of friends that we like and that treat us the way we like to be treated. Usually they are small, close groups.
But this practice alone doesn't automatically demand a hunter/gatherer lifestyle.
mistaspot1 3 years ago
"But this practice alone doesn't automatically demand a hunter/gatherer lifestyle" Absolutly agree they are H/G and tribal organization are mutually exclusive terms.
AdamHintz 3 years ago
"I think we naturally separate into tribes" I also agree with this. What's cool with Meadowlark is that we've come together to make a living and then also form close friendships which is apart of the tribal benifit.
AdamHintz 3 years ago
"I don't personally think egalitarianism quite fits in this situation.." That's a good point. Egalitarianism only signifies the lack of hierarchy not the grouping of people into small groups. This is where bbbleavers video "channel capacity" comes into play.
AdamHintz 3 years ago
IS THAT EGALITARIANISM?
dnHooligan 3 years ago
when everybody is equal?
dnHooligan 3 years ago
GO tribal, DAMMIT.
dnHooligan 3 years ago
Verb.
AdamHintz 3 years ago
right onn...
dnHooligan 3 years ago