Mr. Grayson, is a true American, he looks out for the 'commom man' of our great country. Indeed, he uses his mind and hart for his talking points in congress and not how he can prosper from corporate cronies.
Funny how conservatives always point to history to show that socialism did not work. When not once, N E V E R in history have we seen a working example of true capitalsim. Not one!
True capitalism means almost no government intervention. And a totally free market.
The closest thing to true capitalism you come today is Somalia, thats right. Oh you would live it in somalia, no government fingers in your life, no tax, just you and the free market, you conservatives woul LOVE Somalia.
Everyday that they delay, there are thousands that will die without insurance. Thousands die with insurance since the insurance company deny claims after claims...Millions going bankrupt because of the high health costs... THIS IS A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE. Millions are being laid off. HOW THE FUCK DO THESE PEOPLE SLEEP AT NIGHT?
Those talking about Europe healtcare do not have a clue about and should just the fxxx up. In Europe they don't worry about healthcare. In America we do because we simply cannot afford it. In America healthcare is a big business where people's life are juggle daily. In Europe people life comes first not corporate profit.
As for Republicans "killing" medicare.. Obama is the one planning to defund it immensely, it's part of his plan, you know.. the one you blindly follow and assumed I knew nothing about it.. despite the fact that you didn't read it. If you rely on ANY one source for your information (in your case I would wager MSNBC) you will be lied to. Do your own research, look and see people come here from canada in droves for life saving surgery, because they cant get it there. Do we want that here?
Or take Greece for you paradigm of perfection. They're rioting in the streets - they expected more handouts than the government could give. Poor little cretins.
@sk8tergnome87 Separation of powers is extremely important in maintaining a check on abuse of power. In a federalist system power is distributed explicitly in the constitution and its amendments. The powers of the legislature(congress), the executive(the president), and the judicial(the federal courts)
are enumerated, and additionally all powers not given to the federal government are reserved for the states, and the people. This limits the power of the federal government , what do you propose?
Oh but Republicans ARE for health care reform--as long as it benefits the right folks, i.e. corporations instead of the working poor. EXHIBIT A-- the most expensive addition to entitlements since the inception of the New Deal, Medicare Part D.
Baa Baa, little sheep, filing down the socialist path.
Your utopian schemes haven't worked in the past nor will the work in the future. The problem with funding everything with other people's money is that it eventually you run out. Maybe learn a little self reliance for a change?
What to do? What to do? Help, save us from the villains, Dudley Do-wright! We Americans are such frail and weak creatures, we have no ability to deal with the huge forces working against us! We have no resources, and no one to save us! Wait! I know - Representative Grayson, you are big and strong and humane, will YOU PLEASE step in and rescue us, PLEASE? Pretty please with a couple trillion dollars on top?
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I'd like to take this moment to thank the Republicans for holding up this bill that the majority of Americans do not want. Thankyou for actually representing us, as opposed to asuming you know whats better for us than we do, like Mr. Grayson here. God bless the Republicans for having more "guts" in their little fingers than Alan Grayson has in his entire lard-riddled body. (My congressman is nuts!)
Nobody? You thinkk that the people who suffer from GOP Corporate death panels don't want universal healthcare?
You think they agree with your assesement?
Or maybe they aren't humans in your eyes. Only embryos is worth oprotetcion in your eyes. As long as your woman hating taliban can control a womans body, eh?
What the hell are you talking about? O_o It would appear you are (clumsily) attempting to call me a Republican, which is silly on many levels, as I am not one. You're jumping from that false conclusion and trying to pin some opinions on me, I'm sorry you've failed on every level. No I do not support a government run health care system that will ration care and make it bad for everyone. I know you have hatred issues which prevent you from actually making sense, but could you please at least try?
Ration? Have you bought into the GOP BS again? Because it certainly seem be one.''so! What is your suggestion? You've had a private healthcare system that is in the ditch. An economy f.u. by Bush. What is your solution to prevent 44 000 dying due to lack of access to healthcare? I can't wait to get that answer from you.
'Try the European model. you will be surprised.
"Rationed healthcare"? Pleas. where did you get that fiction from? Oh, GOP wants to kill Medicare as well now..
There is no GOP bs about it. Right now there is rationing in Canada, the UK, and in many other countries with socialist health care, not to mention Massachusetts which has a state wide socialist HC system in place already. Granted, the Canadian and European Socialist plans probably work better than the one written by elitists in secret, supported by many who did not even bother reading it (including you i would assume) and given more support primarily by sneaky underhanded deals and loopholes.
God you're a broken record, and a boring one at that. I know healthcare in Canada and the UK sucks because I have friends in both and theyve told me stories, in some cases firsthand, in others about friends or relatives who had to wait months for treatment, or were denied life saving surgery because their life "wasn't worth it" (yes they do that in the UK, not that MSNBC would tell you)And by the way, who do you think Grayson is bought and paid for?I think you'd be shocked if you paid attention.
Wait, is it me or did he skip New York? Does that mean nobody dies here? Cool! Oh wait. That's because they support reform here (I guess), so he didn't want to mention the deaths here. That sucks, I'm too lazy to Google that :(
Exactly, he wanted to shame those that oppose reform.. no need for shame for those that support it, event though there are people dying in every state..
Oh noes! A thumbs down... I feel bad now. But, yeah, I wasn't really trying to be cynical, I just couldn't think of anything else. I can never think of anything else :(
He needs to run for the senate first to look like a more serious candiate. That is why Dennis never wins a primary. He is jumping from rep to president which is too high.
Nah, I think he could pull it off! Obama has disappointed too many progressives by sending more troops to Afghanistan. Grayson could give him a run for his money in the primaries!
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trying to have dissenters jailed is something usually reserved for castro's cuba, or mao's china.. it isnt something i thought id ever hear happening here in the us.. to incorrectly quote Michelle Obama.. "For the first time in my life I am [fearful] for my country.."
@MasterFhyl he tried to have her improsned for a good reason and if shes done nothing wrong then she has nothing to worry about. He makes great arguments , and he has the fighting power the ppl of floridas 8th district need. He has Alot of support and will most likely get relected.
he tried to have her imprisoned for making a web site that does nothing more than call attention to the insane things he has said and done. you can look at the site for yourself mycongressmanisnuts(dot)com and tell me if you think in a free country that is "good reason" to imprison someone. it sure as hell isnt brave that the little balding man cant take any criticism.
You seem to have a thing against people who are balding. One of the odder criticisms of a politician I've ever seen. Don't forget to mention he appears to be somewhat overweight and could use some dental work. Damned unphotogenic politicians! Someone here is saying insane things but it's not Grayson. (hint, hint--it's you)
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Well if you refuse to believe a provable fact then you're what the Democrats like to call a "useful idiot" do us both a favor and actually LOOK IT UP YOURSELF. Dont rely on the media to give you the truth, theyre in the propaganda business these days. Alan is as corrupt and dangerous as any politician. He most certainly DID try to have angie langly put in jail, because he couldnt take the (accurate)criticisms of him. He will NEVER win reelection, most of us in floridas 8th HATE him.
I don't live in the US MasterFhyl but I would love to have a wager with you that he gets reelected. I know he's in a marginal seat but he kicks so much ass. I would vote for him.
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Unlike you I actually LIVE in his district He barely got elected when he had Obama's coat tails to ride(by a slim 2% margin no less) He is the first democrat to occupy the seat in a good while, and that isnt just coincidence. He runs his mouth and acts like a bully, and many of us think it makes us look bad. He hypocritically bashes the Republicans while ignoring the fact that in almost every case what he says applies doubly so to Democrats. So no, the balding coward wont win reelection.
It is about time someone starts calling these death-dealing obstructionists what they really are. Rep. Grayson is wonderful.
Republi-can'ts love of money and power exceed their love for anything else, even their fellow man. I would pity them, if they weren't so dangerous to this country.
They act like the 06' and 08' elections never happened, and they didn't get tossed out of power wholesale. How dare he deconstruct their carefully crafted little bs worlds?
I call him that to differentiate between him and a good honorable Jew...a 'mensch'...like Senator Joe Lieberman....I'm not insulting his religion at all...I'm insulting his lack of it if anything
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it is a fact that alan grayson is trying to get angie langly put in jail. he had the nerve to call her website "childish" after how he acts. this guy has no balls, hes the biggest coward in washington
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heh....the Congresskike wants to put Angie Langley for starting a website that spoofs him.....MyCongressmanisnuts (dot) com.....if he hates that one,just wait till he finds about the website I started........LolitaGraysonhasadirtypussy (dot) com....maybe he thinks he can put ME in jail too....foolish boy
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I do not like his hypocrisy one bit, but when you insult his religion you make us look like the bad guys, so cool it and stick to the facts, yeah this guy is a coward and a creep, and hes totally nuts too.
Shut up! What a shock there is an obnoxious New York bred lawyer grandstanding. Just tell us the population of the U.S., give us the number that die each year, the number that die who are uninsured, don't include illegal immigrants and the people will decide if the number is outlandish.
You want to know the plans Republicans have offered? Allow insurance to be sold between state lines, and enact tort reform, the two of those would make a HUGE dent in the price of health care, but the people who bought and paid for the Democrats (i.e. trial lawyers) dislike them so it wont happen.. Instead we get another 2000+ page sack of crap that noone is going to read, once again breaking Obama's transparency promise.
I know all the Republican Proposals have been. It has been point out time and time again that tort Reform would do Absolutely nothing. Texas being the point in Case of this. Allowing insurance to be sold between state lines is soo open to Abuse i can't believe you used that to make your bad point. Insurance companies stand to make more profits of these two proposals on the back of the American people and wouldn't help the American people to Afford health care.
The CBO said as much when the numbers were Crunched on the Republican HC bill. They said it didn't do anything to take down the costs of Healthcare in the US whatsoever.
I have both HR 3200 and 3962 1990 page bills on my computer as pdf downloads i use it whenever someone contends with me what is in it. You might not have read the bill(s) but that doesn't mean that Other people haven't. I'm not even American. and liberals are Often labeled as the Lay ones get off ur lazy ass and read it.
why should I wade through 2000+ pages of purposely confusing pork? A great deal of the bill still isn't even WRITTEN yet, and yet theyre voting on it.. hmm not to mention they still need to reconcile the difference between the house and senate bills before they can pass anything. Don't doubt for a second that they took 2000+pages to say what could have been said in much less specifically because they know most americans arent going to sit down and read,much less understand 2000 pages or crap
Show me your numbers that tort reform would do nothing because i sincerely suspect that you are talking out your ass. As selling between state lines being "soo open to abuse" what the hell do you think will happen when a beauracracy takes control of the health care industry.. please explain in deatail how that is a "bad point" aside from the fact that it doesn't help the people who bought and paid for the Democrat party. Choice ALWAYS costs less than a monopoly, thats just basic econimics.
why don't you read the CBO's response to Orrin Hatch's Question to CBO about the Effects tort reform. It is only 7 pages long not too bulky to ready you should be able to get through it easily. the CBO pointed out things like alot of the states have already enacted some sort of Tort reform with little or no success. I'm not going to read it all to you i'll leave you to do that yourself.
Quoting that Letter: "Would reduce total national health care expenditures by about 0.2 percent"
there is a Robert Reich Video an Youtube about the public option as well where he points out that the public option would be competing with the private option companies. If you understand that you would understand that this is no such thing as a Monopoly. If the private insurance Companies can't compete it could become a monopoly but the government wouldn't let this happen but this competition would lead to more choice i.e. basic economics. well duh dipshit.
So you match one stupid statement with another? O-oI dont see your logic there but ok. When the government competes with the private sector it has two advantages. 1. It will subsidize itself to prevent itself from failing.
2. It doesn't play fair. Look at the US Postal Service. Ups and Fed EX are SO much more efficient, the USPS is bankrupt only even still running because the government pumps money to keep it afloat, yet only the USPS is allowed to send letters, and theres no good reason for it
And if choice and competition are such good things (and they ARE) What is wrong with allowing companies to sell across state lines? it's absolutely absurd.. adding one alternative that doesnt play fair is a good idea, but adding many that are all forced to play by the same rulse is a bad one? do you not see how insane that sounds?
cause they will move to the state insurance company tax haven and pocket profits like they do with what they get from Tort Reforms. there is nothing in this selling across state lines that suggests they will pass the benefits to the Customer is what i'm saying they don't pass any benefits they get from the tort reforms they have already activated. The healthcare insurance companies stand to gain from it but the customers don't and there is nothing in current legislation 2 say that they should.
There is nothing in opening up trade channels between states that suggests that competition would be improved.
i do know that the constitution states that under powers of Congress they have the right to:
"To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"
not to mention it would inflict national rules to states that may not agree to with them. Each state should be able to enforce any HC laws they want as a free state.
theres nothing in giving the government control of 1/3 of our economy to suggest competition would be improved. i find your faith in the government, any government, disturbing. i dont see what is so bad about increasing the competition and choice 10 fold rather than onefold.... it's clear you didnt listen to my points when i said the gvmt doesnt play fair, so i really dont know what else to say. it isnt fun to debate with someone who refuses to listen....
they dont have a choice but to pass the savings on to the consumer, its one of the basic principles of capitalism, if they choose to rip you off, someone else will undercut them and you can go with them instead, what theres no guarentee of is that the government can be trusted to essentially take over a third of our country's economy... there doesnt need to be any legislature, and if i hear nancy pelosi say "competition and choice" while blocking actual choice one more time im going to slap her.
there are tax havens in the senate plan too, as in thgey made deals with certain states that they wouldnt have to pay taxes on this plan if they supported it. what you just described as a negative is precisely why capitalism works. other states will have to cut taxes to compete, and everyone wins.
so MasterFhyl your great idea is to sell across state lines?? If an insurance company in my state already overcharges for under coverage, in your mind they should have the right to sell their horrible insurance to the citizens of another state too?? That's beyond idiotic. And if the public option wasn't going to work, why would the insurance companies spend over $200 million fighting against something that was going to fail anyway? Because they knew it WOULD work.
What is truly evil, is the fact that one of Obama's economic advisors is on record as saying we need to let old people die, because they arent worth keeping alive, and that very same man(Robert Reich) is currently giving advice to Obama, and moreso that Obama is actually LISTENING to this lunatic. Which party wants people to "die quickly" again?
Yes. Calling something on something they ACTUALLY SAY is a smear tactic, and yet accusing someone of saying and believing something they don't is not. I love the backwards world you liberals live in.
Death Panels Palin lie is politifact Lie of the year apparently. how do you get out of that? I have a 75 gran that wanted to die shortly after the granda died.the doctors via the NHS in The UK won't let her. This year she has had 3 operations one on her spine and another for her wrists and the last one to replace a heart valve and apply a bypass. next year she is due to have both knees replaced. Even if palin is making an Argument Against Socialised Medicine how does this fly with her view
They The doctors are not letting her die. saving her life at all costs. she is 75 for god sake. michial moore was right when he said the British people are laughing at you when you come out with Smears against the NHS a quick fact check that the newspaper headings did not represent the truth of the matter and he was right. if it wasn't so sad for the American people and taht people take Hannity Seriously it would be funny.
Youtube wont let me post a link, but type in youtube search "Robert Reich Let you die" one of the first videos that comes will be a speech that Robert Reich (One of Obama's top economic advisors) gave at a school a while back. He gave the speech as "what the president of the united states(genericlly) would say if he were honest" I truly do urge you to look it up because thats 100% truth not a smear, its what you liberals would call "an inconveniant truth" but a truth no less.
I have seen that Mr Reich video and it is clear 2 ne1 with a brain that is is making an an analogy. An Analogy of both Ideological positions. and theire views. You you really think that if he was making a statement of fact that the freedom loving Americans in the audience would be laughing along with him? The fact you can't tell the difference between an Analogy and a statement of fact tells me everything i need to know about you. You are dishonest. Palins death panel claim was dishonest 2.
if they were bunk how come theyve been removed several times now (and now still exist in certain parts of one of the bills) actually.. how do you know so much about the bills.. and yes it is bills there is no single bill, and most of them are not complete yet. Have you actually read all 2000 pages or are you just paroting msnbc ? There is language in the baukus(sp) bill that gives doctors an incentive to encourage older people to sign a DNR.. so i dont think it's "bunk" as you say
i read through them from time to time the beuty of the software i use to read pdf's is that when i close it and open it opens at the page i was last reading i can tell you i'm on page 1557 of HR 3962 and all of HR 3200 which isn't as big and long. not that it matters cause none of it applies to me cause i'm not a US citizen anyway. If it were i would not have taken such a lax approach reading through them though.
cause of the power of fearmongering. I think you are refering to the section that gets quoted the most and was addressed on the Daily Show with Betsy mis-informer McCaughey section 1233 labeled "VOLUNTARY ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION"
VOLUNTARY
i didn't mean to shout that is how it copies out
and it starts with:
"Such consultation may include the following"
MAY
An explanation by the practitioner of physician orders regarding life sustaining treatment"
If that section of The bill meant anything like what you think it meant and me if i was an American would be the first to object like Jon Stewart i would be right behind him and so would alot of the patriotic american liberals.
Yes Alan. It's a waste to actually READ a bill before voting on it. The majority of americans dont want the changes you and others like you are trying to force on us. November will not come soon enough so we can kick this blowhard the hell out of office.
You're an idiot. You're saying you're satisfied with the status quo regarding health care? You're okay with the 30-40 million Americans that aren't covered?
You are an evil creature. You conservatives/Republicans are very evil creatures.
You're an idiot for blindly subsrcibing to the "any change is good change" theory. You're saying it doesn't matter what the change is so long as there is one? You're ok with the fact that your numbers are artificially inflated, with less than 12 million americans not having health care and actually wanting it, and this legislation does NOTHING to help them.
You are an utterly moronic creature, I am NOT a Republican, but a Libertarian, and unlike you i do not blindly follow government EVER.
You've fallen for Obama's propaganda hook, line, and sinker. This is NOT change in the right direction. Youre a name-calling child and I refuse to sink to your level in exchanging insults. I listen to anyone who can back up their facts, yes Limbaugh can do that. (Obama can't) I dont believe any one source, rather i do my own research and use common sense to see that the garbage the democrats are pushing is the true evil.
i hate 2 see people use the Argument from common Sense to me it has always been the Argument from no Argument. I don't have a Sensible Argument so i'll argue to have more Common Sense something they can't refute either way. A when all else fails claim common Sense. i hate to see people use it it degrades their Argument so much. my reading of what happened in the Senate is that the Republican's and republicans that have rebranded themselves Libertarians are Irrelevant 2 the public discourse.
I hate to see people who know nothing about politics act like they do. People who criticize others for using their own personal judgement rather than allowing themselves to be manipulated by either side. Libertarians are most certainly NOT irrelevant. There are far more of than you think. There is ample proof that blindly pushing foreward with change for the sake of change is a bad idea, but at the end of the day the only one whom you can trust is yourself not the gvmt and sure as hell not Obama
The ultimate question is -- are you satisfied with the status quo? Of Americans getting denied coverage simply for having a pre-existing condition. Of millions of Americans not being able to afford coverage. Of health care bills being the #1 cause of bankruptcy in this country
The first post of yours that I responded to seemed to indicate that you were perfectly fine with the way things are.
If you're not satisfied with the status quo, then what solutions have you & your party offered?
This bill being pushed through is a sack of crap. It changes NOTHING AT ALL until 3 years from now (hmm just long enough so that when it crashes and burns Obama will have already in his mind won reelection) It begins taxing ALL americans, rich or poor, IMMEDIATELY. It doesnt actually do anything to improve quality of care from anyone, and cuts millions from medicare(so it actually LOWERS the quality in some cases)
And the republicans, which are not "my party" by the way, have plenty of solutions.. but the democrats, despite their promises of bipartisanship, are actually gearing up to be the most partisan congress in history, literally locking republicans out in some cases, ignoring their solutions and adding insult to injury by claiming there is no republican plan which is bull. Yes i do dislike the Democrats more than the Republicans, because i hate hypocricy.
by most acounts it has been Acknowledged by Both sides that the proposed GOP HC bill was basically thrown in so that they could say later down the road yes we proposed something, and you tell me i don't know politics. it is a political move and most of the honest folks out there will acknowledge this. i'm going to suggest you haven't read this GOP bill either but maybe you have but the CBO ran the numbers and said that it would leave 51-52 Mllion Americans Uninsured not helpful.
B most accounts the democrats laughed and scorned the pathetic attempt of a HC reform bill the Republicians i don't think anyone was meant to or was ever going to take that bill seriously and for good reason.
I dont take the Democrat bill seriously, and for good reason. Its a load of crap, and it's 99% pork 1% bad policies that will lead to rationing and all around bad care.
gah you're a broken record. "GOP BAD Democrat good." theres literally nothing the Republicans could have done and still cared in your opinion. Nevermind the fact that the Democrat bill does literally nothing except tax us for the next 3 years.. after which it DEFUNDS medicare. Oh, but its going to cost less, be deficit neutral, and give everyone much more coverage. My ass >.>
i thought the GOP website was good. i liked the red styled theme and the general layout. It became obvious from the outset that the Republicans would try and slow the bills passage regardless of what was inside it. how can you side with a body of people like that. If they weren't soo eager 2 spread lies about the bill i might have respected them some more. I don't like the way that America politics is played out Both sides play to win and at the expense of the American people normally.
I have no idea what you're talking about, but considering the majority of americans do not want this bill to pass the republicans in the senate are doing THEIR JOBS by fighting this bill. why should they support a bill they were allowed almost no part in drafting? and *shock* theyre asking that it actually be READ on the floor before voting? Blasphemy!
what do we pay our representatives for if it is not to debate a bill on the floor one assumes that they are paid to read the bill before they debate it on the floor. what you are talking about it reading the bill at least twice why is this measure to read the bill on the floor in it's entirety prescribed for all bills? cause it is a measure used to filibuster and delay the bill by delaying the political process. you told me you knew and understood politics.
you honestly think that you come to the floor of the house and just debate a bill you haven't bothered to read. Well maybe some of the republicans might but that isn't the way of the political system in the US. you stand to waste more Americans time by reading it in private coming to the floor to debate it and then publically reading it on the floor is a waste. all bills are available to the public by downloading from the government website.
Government won't force you to read them but you are free to do so at your own will and pleasure whenever you like.this has been the case for years. Off all the public polls i have ever read asking if you (the American people) want a public option i have yet to see a poll that came out less than 50 percent most of them came out in the 60's and 70's including CBS polls which i just googled "public option poll" and found that a minute ago. do some research for once for gods sake i mean really.
yes i do in fact, they did it with the "stimulus" because it was "too important" to pass it quickly. there's no way in hell every single member of congress read it in the day they had before voting on it. The same for cap and trade, and this nonsense. What did you read? the bill wasnt even fully WRITTEN yet by the time they tried to start voting on it so how could they have read it all by now. Furthermore, this doesnt even go in to effect for 3 years so what the hell is their rush?
Well this would be a time where assuming you made an ass out of you and me. I realize this isn't widely reported, but by "tying up the passage of the bill" what the republicans actually did was force it to be read on the floor, it has NOT been read by people voting on it, nor is it actually necessary for it to be read on the floor before being voted on. the filibuster consisted in part at least of the reading of these amendments, i know because i listened to it being done.
Why are [we] waiting so long? U mm, I don't know? Maybe something to do with Separation of Powers Clause in the Constitution?
Perhaps, Grayson here prefers a rubber stamp parliament like the ones in dictatorships around the globe. No debate. Just my way or the highway, approach.
Indeed why the rush. Even when this so called health care provision is passed. It won't take effect until 2014. But the taxes for it go into effect on day one. Could that be the reason Grayson's in such a hurry?
democrat AL Franken addressed this falsehood portrayed by Thune you can find it in |Youtube. he pointed out that none of what he (thune) said was true. i doubt you will check it out but it would destroy the Argument you just made.
i should have labeled the falsehood i was pointing out the Falsehood that nothing with take effect till 2014. it doesn't do that and Al Franken pointed this out to Thune who made the false claim. It isn't the only false claim; the most popular one was that of Death Panels. Palin has Almost admitted it wasn't really in the Bill but that it made for a good argument and interesting discussions. despite the fact it wasn't true. that daily show with Betsy McCaughey was extremely funny to watch.
Another falsehood from the other side of the aisle has been this if you don't buy insurance you will be sent to jail. Well i reading of the bills would clear this up i genuinely don't think anyone that opposes this bill and makes that argument against it has actually read the bill. HR 3962 has one mention of jail and it is not in the context of being sent to jail it is on page 1577 HR 3200 didn't have one mention of Jail in it once. You can check this out by DLing it and running a search.
i have seen enough of politics to see what happens when a party comes into power that you personally didn't vote for. the number one thing is you think the worst. i genuely think the right are the worst at this. I always thought this was entertaining cause they are willing to put 100% faith in a God they didn't vote in but are unwilling to do this for the other side of the aisle in debate. what was the first thing the right did when he was voted in?
he is a communist/fascist/socialist and all that trash Arguments that comes with that point of view. Trusting the Constitution when there man is in power but not trusting it when their man isn't in power. The constitution protects against tyrants and the rights of the minority as all decent constitutions should.
i think the influence and words of Montesquieu are Applicable here that "no man should be afraid of another" words which drove Madison to instigate the separation of powers. if the religious right want to run scared(or fearful) of Obama they do so cause they don't know or understand the constitution and that it alone protects against tyrannical leaders. Maybe they don't understand it or understand the concept.
That's actually the Demodrones that want that. Please tell me how Obama is intelligent. The fact that he fooled the majority of American people into believing that he gave a damn?
This guy IS RIGHT ON! My husband was in HIS district when he died of cancer one year ago Oct.
My husband died because he had NO insurance and could NOT get treatment until it was too late. IF his cancer had been treated earlier he would have survived AND even been able to go back to work and CONTRIBUTE to pool of TAXES that were used to shore up Wall Street LEECHES above the Main Street working people who EARNED the money!
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This guy is just full of sh&*........
I still think most dont know there never was an individual account for anyone with S.S.I... it all went to the general fund,like all taxes do..where it wasted by the corrupt machine thats hijacked this system long ago.
Yeah stop the pain let Freedom ring again. The blood will be on the communist progressives hands ,not ours my friends of Liberty..
You are a republican therefore you don't have to explain your selfish ignorance. You only want the government to do what is best for you. Everyone else can die on the street for all you care.
The selfish ignorant greed of the republican party is obvious and disgraceful. You self absorbed losers have the mentality of an animal.
@Fail:I'm not a Republican. I'm a independent who voted mostly Democratic in 2004 and 2006 when I saw the war being mismanaged. There's some truth regarding the Reps being greedy. But they're by far the lesser of 2 evils this time around. Perhaps we can work on a major 3rd party to stir the sauce. The removal of party system altogether would be a better solution, but I don't see this happening.
I don't mind helping the helpless, but I'm not wasting time on the clueless. Enough is enough.
That's a hypocritical statement if I ever read one. You're the one delusional and willfully ignorant. You just want somebody to support you while you sit on your ass and do nothing. That's probably why you know nothing about SSI because your stupid ass doesn't work so you can't contribute to it. Worthless far left scum. Racist/Anti Feminist/Anti Civil Rights/Anti Education. Sums you up. Take Grayson's advice and DIE QUICKLY.
Now that you've emptied your limited dysfunctional brain of all the Fox propaganda that you've been able to memorize you begin your redundant routine of personal attacks. Your ignorance exposes the fact that you are a liar. You accuse anyone that knows you're an anti government pro human suffering selfish clueless redneck as a leach .Explain the fact that most wealthy people are Democrats the most affluent areas are Democratic and most ignorant rednecks are republicans.
Your uneducated incoherent babbles just kill me. I normally don't respond to stupidity but you make it so easy to fuck with. Pissing off a demodrone like yourself is easy. Just use facts and logic.
Oh and you have yet to refute the facts I presented to you.
That last statement is a straight up lie. If that were true, demodrones like yourself wouldn't whine about the poor so often dumbass. I love putting you in your place. lmao
Why don't you try to replace some of your ignorance with facts. Check out some of the poorest states. They're packed with uneducated rednecks like yourself mostly hardcore republicans. Now check out some of the highest per capita income areas in the North East or in Major cities. They are Democrat all the way. You republicans make up the ignorant morons that are so easily duped by the corporate owned republican party of corrupt liars and ignorant redneck morons like you back them all the way.
Im assuming you're talking about that stupid video that snopes confirmed as a hoax. Please tell me where you got this information from. What are you references. I got mine. Where are yours? Not everyone who lives in the city is a demodrone dumbass. In fact most people are actually poor in the big cities as you'll go by and see 11 people in 1 house all working dead end jobs. YOur fallacy proves nothing.
Liberal Hypocrisy. That's a lie all the way. You drones listen too much to the liberal media. Rednecks huh. If I use the n word you'll get pissed and call me a racist. Anybody with common sense will see that you're the dumbass in this debate.
@Phalinex , Herere some 1990 Gallup poll numbers relating education to political affiliation: 23.4% Rep, 54.6% Dem, 22.5% Ind Some High School: 22.8% Rep, 51.3% Dem, 26.0% Ind High School Grad: 29.4% Rep, 40.5% Dem, 30.2% Ind Some College and/or Tech: 36.0% Rep, 35.0% Dem, 29.3% Ind College Grad: 42.0% Rep, 30.7% Dem, 27.7% Ind Good luck with this one.
You're a total hypocrite who likes to pull B.S. out of your ass in order to lie and trash Republicans, while you condone, ignore and admire the filth and corruption that your disgusting and vile Democrat party wallows in! A sick psycho like you would have this a-hole circus clown, Alan Grayson as a hero! You two sick lying SOBs deserve each other!
Phalinex you are a intelligent person but you need to realize that, with the exception of true liberals like Grayson, the democrats are proving Ralph Nader right. Who killed the public option? Senate Democrats. Who stopped supporting a public option after the insurance companies gave her a fundraiser? Nancy Pelosi, according to The Young Turks. We are living in a two party illusion. Don't be a sheep to it.
You mean to tell me that you didn't know that you Republican brainwashed morons are anti government pro American suffering? Some of you morons are so ignorant that you believe we don't need a Federal government at all. You're built from ignorant selfish delusional greed so deep you'll fuck yourselves over just to insure that nobody else can receive any benefit from government programs.
Once again Oyer proves his only thought is of himself. The money you put into SS and medicare is not yours. If you die the day that you retire you get nothing.
Oyer if you post some obscure statistic that has nothing to do with this issue at hand it doesn't qualify as backing up your ignorant bullshit with facts. It is more proof that in your confused convoluted mind the government is the enemy. As long as the republicans keep your simple mind filled with anti government propaganda you'll eat it up and ask for more.
I gave you the reference to back it up you dumb shit little bitch. Where did your stupid ass get that Republicans think ?Government is the enemy. I don't think Government is evil. I think Government is essential but as a last resort to fix the problems. The Demodrones want to run to the Government for solutions. YOu can read those letters you get from ssa to confirm my claims. YOu just buy what the liberal media feeds you because you are a willfully ignorant demodrone.
MrSupercommunist, Wow saw your page theres enough self loathing there for a whole city of people.
So we had slaves back then, is that a unique American experience? There has been slavery since the dawn of man. White men enslaved each other before they even knew where Africa was. And empire building has gone on since the beginning also. Look at all of Latin America, how many countries participated in that? But thats over now as the maps of the world have been drawn so you can stop crying now
MrSup, Well thats a figure the left likes to throw around just like the falsehood of 1 million we killed in Iraq. I do agree during nation building millions were unfortunately killed. Millions of indigenous people were killed in every Latin American country as well as in Africa during colonization by the English, French, Spanish and Portuguese. The American experience is nothing unique, So a liberal crying about it happening here is nothing more than self loathing. It's over now dry your eyes.
Yeah, I;m not denying that. They were all mass murders. My point is that we shouldn't be following the path of the founders or any of those tyrants in the 19th century. I'm very aware what the french and all those bastards did. You are very correct there.
MrSup, You dont think before the arrival of the Europeans that native tribes attacked and killed one another? People have been killing each other since the dawn of man and always will. Cherry picking certain events serves what point? And those "Tyrants" created a country where you have the freedom to give your opinion without reprisal and enough prosperity to be able to afford feelings of self loathing.
Bullshit. People had 12 hour workdays in the 19th century. Children worked. Women had no rights. Blacks were slaved and exploited. Native americans were massacred. Fuck the founding fathers. Don't play the fucking card with me.
Mr. Grayson, is a true American, he looks out for the 'commom man' of our great country. Indeed, he uses his mind and hart for his talking points in congress and not how he can prosper from corporate cronies.
mm1moreno 1 year ago
Funny how conservatives always point to history to show that socialism did not work. When not once, N E V E R in history have we seen a working example of true capitalsim. Not one!
True capitalism means almost no government intervention. And a totally free market.
The closest thing to true capitalism you come today is Somalia, thats right. Oh you would live it in somalia, no government fingers in your life, no tax, just you and the free market, you conservatives woul LOVE Somalia.
TheSaltyAdmiral 1 year ago
Everyday that they delay, there are thousands that will die without insurance. Thousands die with insurance since the insurance company deny claims after claims...Millions going bankrupt because of the high health costs... THIS IS A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE. Millions are being laid off. HOW THE FUCK DO THESE PEOPLE SLEEP AT NIGHT?
sadie0087777 1 year ago
I love Alan Grayson.I would love to sleep with him.
MissMoxie87 1 year ago
Hey MissMoxie CLONE, you've been reported. LOL!
rrsrichard 1 year ago
rrsichard Did you get my news Richard,I'm a new Republican and I'm excited.I'll suck your cock for 5 dollars.SeeYa.
MissMoxie87 1 year ago
Those talking about Europe healtcare do not have a clue about and should just the fxxx up. In Europe they don't worry about healthcare. In America we do because we simply cannot afford it. In America healthcare is a big business where people's life are juggle daily. In Europe people life comes first not corporate profit.
knockiiing 1 year ago
As for Republicans "killing" medicare.. Obama is the one planning to defund it immensely, it's part of his plan, you know.. the one you blindly follow and assumed I knew nothing about it.. despite the fact that you didn't read it. If you rely on ANY one source for your information (in your case I would wager MSNBC) you will be lied to. Do your own research, look and see people come here from canada in droves for life saving surgery, because they cant get it there. Do we want that here?
MasterFhyl 1 year ago
Or take Greece for you paradigm of perfection. They're rioting in the streets - they expected more handouts than the government could give. Poor little cretins.
SDS4BO 1 year ago
@sk8tergnome87 Separation of powers is extremely important in maintaining a check on abuse of power. In a federalist system power is distributed explicitly in the constitution and its amendments. The powers of the legislature(congress), the executive(the president), and the judicial(the federal courts)
are enumerated, and additionally all powers not given to the federal government are reserved for the states, and the people. This limits the power of the federal government , what do you propose?
mstraney 2 years ago
Oh but Republicans ARE for health care reform--as long as it benefits the right folks, i.e. corporations instead of the working poor. EXHIBIT A-- the most expensive addition to entitlements since the inception of the New Deal, Medicare Part D.
tropicjac 2 years ago 2
Baa Baa, little sheep, filing down the socialist path.
Your utopian schemes haven't worked in the past nor will the work in the future. The problem with funding everything with other people's money is that it eventually you run out. Maybe learn a little self reliance for a change?
SDS4BO 1 year ago
What to do? What to do? Help, save us from the villains, Dudley Do-wright! We Americans are such frail and weak creatures, we have no ability to deal with the huge forces working against us! We have no resources, and no one to save us! Wait! I know - Representative Grayson, you are big and strong and humane, will YOU PLEASE step in and rescue us, PLEASE? Pretty please with a couple trillion dollars on top?
SDS4BO 2 years ago
You must save yourselves instead of looking around for a super hero.
They only exist in comic books.
It helps with the likes of Alan Grayson to hack the GOP to pieces though...
bohemianwriter1 1 year ago
Make our day, Alan Grayson.
SDS4BO 1 year ago
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I'd like to take this moment to thank the Republicans for holding up this bill that the majority of Americans do not want. Thankyou for actually representing us, as opposed to asuming you know whats better for us than we do, like Mr. Grayson here. God bless the Republicans for having more "guts" in their little fingers than Alan Grayson has in his entire lard-riddled body. (My congressman is nuts!)
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
So where is this "majority"?
Nobody? You thinkk that the people who suffer from GOP Corporate death panels don't want universal healthcare?
You think they agree with your assesement?
Or maybe they aren't humans in your eyes. Only embryos is worth oprotetcion in your eyes. As long as your woman hating taliban can control a womans body, eh?
bohemianwriter1 1 year ago
What the hell are you talking about? O_o It would appear you are (clumsily) attempting to call me a Republican, which is silly on many levels, as I am not one. You're jumping from that false conclusion and trying to pin some opinions on me, I'm sorry you've failed on every level. No I do not support a government run health care system that will ration care and make it bad for everyone. I know you have hatred issues which prevent you from actually making sense, but could you please at least try?
MasterFhyl 1 year ago
Ration? Have you bought into the GOP BS again? Because it certainly seem be one.''so! What is your suggestion? You've had a private healthcare system that is in the ditch. An economy f.u. by Bush. What is your solution to prevent 44 000 dying due to lack of access to healthcare? I can't wait to get that answer from you.
'Try the European model. you will be surprised.
"Rationed healthcare"? Pleas. where did you get that fiction from? Oh, GOP wants to kill Medicare as well now..
bohemianwriter1 1 year ago
There is no GOP bs about it. Right now there is rationing in Canada, the UK, and in many other countries with socialist health care, not to mention Massachusetts which has a state wide socialist HC system in place already. Granted, the Canadian and European Socialist plans probably work better than the one written by elitists in secret, supported by many who did not even bother reading it (including you i would assume) and given more support primarily by sneaky underhanded deals and loopholes.
MasterFhyl 1 year ago
You know nothing about either UK or the rest of the "socialist" countries in Europe.
Rationalisation?
Again a bloody GOP talking point that you obviously have gotten fromyour GOP fuherer. from Faux News.
Why do you insist on defending a party that has now managed to make Nixon & Reagan look like angels?
Alan Grayson is a hero that is calling out the BS served by corrupt GOP pricks whos bought and paid for by Big Insurance...
bohemianwriter1 1 year ago
God you're a broken record, and a boring one at that. I know healthcare in Canada and the UK sucks because I have friends in both and theyve told me stories, in some cases firsthand, in others about friends or relatives who had to wait months for treatment, or were denied life saving surgery because their life "wasn't worth it" (yes they do that in the UK, not that MSNBC would tell you)And by the way, who do you think Grayson is bought and paid for?I think you'd be shocked if you paid attention.
MasterFhyl 1 year ago
In Oklahoma: Every politician that supports oil tycoons and the christofascists...All of Oklahoma basically.
This state disgusts me.
BobCoffins 2 years ago
Wait, is it me or did he skip New York? Does that mean nobody dies here? Cool! Oh wait. That's because they support reform here (I guess), so he didn't want to mention the deaths here. That sucks, I'm too lazy to Google that :(
PolarDoc22 2 years ago
Exactly, he wanted to shame those that oppose reform.. no need for shame for those that support it, event though there are people dying in every state..
So, you just don't get it it seem
moestietabarnak 2 years ago
So dont be cynical, it's not that he doesnt WANT to list them.. it's he doesnt NEED to
moestietabarnak 2 years ago
Oh noes! A thumbs down... I feel bad now. But, yeah, I wasn't really trying to be cynical, I just couldn't think of anything else. I can never think of anything else :(
PolarDoc22 2 years ago
I agree with Grayson.
I hope after Obama serves his second term, that Grayson becomes our next president.
aldenbuzz 2 years ago 8
@aldenbuzz Preach brother!
BobCoffins 2 years ago
Could you imagine Grayson vs Palin in a debate for the presidency!
Yostiemonster 2 years ago
I was disappointed to hear that you apologized for the "k street whore" remark! But you still rock! Keep up the good fight!
Yostiemonster 2 years ago
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Grayson, you need to apologize to whores by comparing lobbyists to them!
LOL
Yostiemonster 2 years ago
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Yostiemonster 2 years ago
Grayson you are a great congressman but we need you to run for US sente. I think you might be better there.
captcrais101 2 years ago
He needs to run for President!
Yostiemonster 2 years ago
He needs to run for the senate first to look like a more serious candiate. That is why Dennis never wins a primary. He is jumping from rep to president which is too high.
captcrais101 2 years ago
Nah, I think he could pull it off! Obama has disappointed too many progressives by sending more troops to Afghanistan. Grayson could give him a run for his money in the primaries!
Yostiemonster 2 years ago
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trying to have dissenters jailed is something usually reserved for castro's cuba, or mao's china.. it isnt something i thought id ever hear happening here in the us.. to incorrectly quote Michelle Obama.. "For the first time in my life I am [fearful] for my country.."
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
@MasterFhyl he tried to have her improsned for a good reason and if shes done nothing wrong then she has nothing to worry about. He makes great arguments , and he has the fighting power the ppl of floridas 8th district need. He has Alot of support and will most likely get relected.
aceonfire11 2 years ago 2
he tried to have her imprisoned for making a web site that does nothing more than call attention to the insane things he has said and done. you can look at the site for yourself mycongressmanisnuts(dot)com and tell me if you think in a free country that is "good reason" to imprison someone. it sure as hell isnt brave that the little balding man cant take any criticism.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
You seem to have a thing against people who are balding. One of the odder criticisms of a politician I've ever seen. Don't forget to mention he appears to be somewhat overweight and could use some dental work. Damned unphotogenic politicians! Someone here is saying insane things but it's not Grayson. (hint, hint--it's you)
chomsky88 2 years ago
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Well if you refuse to believe a provable fact then you're what the Democrats like to call a "useful idiot" do us both a favor and actually LOOK IT UP YOURSELF. Dont rely on the media to give you the truth, theyre in the propaganda business these days. Alan is as corrupt and dangerous as any politician. He most certainly DID try to have angie langly put in jail, because he couldnt take the (accurate)criticisms of him. He will NEVER win reelection, most of us in floridas 8th HATE him.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
I don't live in the US MasterFhyl but I would love to have a wager with you that he gets reelected. I know he's in a marginal seat but he kicks so much ass. I would vote for him.
Spentastic 2 years ago
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Unlike you I actually LIVE in his district He barely got elected when he had Obama's coat tails to ride(by a slim 2% margin no less) He is the first democrat to occupy the seat in a good while, and that isnt just coincidence. He runs his mouth and acts like a bully, and many of us think it makes us look bad. He hypocritically bashes the Republicans while ignoring the fact that in almost every case what he says applies doubly so to Democrats. So no, the balding coward wont win reelection.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
"He hypocritically bashes the Republicans while ignoring the fact that in almost every case what he says applies doubly so to Democrats"
Like what?
Spentastic 2 years ago
@Spentastic
Grayson is criticall of democrats too. You just don't see it.
captcrais101 2 years ago
It is about time someone starts calling these death-dealing obstructionists what they really are. Rep. Grayson is wonderful.
Republi-can'ts love of money and power exceed their love for anything else, even their fellow man. I would pity them, if they weren't so dangerous to this country.
They act like the 06' and 08' elections never happened, and they didn't get tossed out of power wholesale. How dare he deconstruct their carefully crafted little bs worlds?
LOL
Seldona 2 years ago 4
your congressman is nuts
diamonddave514 2 years ago
I call him that to differentiate between him and a good honorable Jew...a 'mensch'...like Senator Joe Lieberman....I'm not insulting his religion at all...I'm insulting his lack of it if anything
Armigerous 2 years ago
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it is a fact that alan grayson is trying to get angie langly put in jail. he had the nerve to call her website "childish" after how he acts. this guy has no balls, hes the biggest coward in washington
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
is this the guy who wants to put someone in prison for 5 years for putting up a web site about him being nuts???
tyrant...
IranUnderground 2 years ago
maybe you could provide facts to back up your points
kane4life4ever 2 years ago 3
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heh....the Congresskike wants to put Angie Langley for starting a website that spoofs him.....MyCongressmanisnuts (dot) com.....if he hates that one,just wait till he finds about the website I started........LolitaGraysonhasadirtypussy (dot) com....maybe he thinks he can put ME in jail too....foolish boy
Armigerous 2 years ago
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I do not like his hypocrisy one bit, but when you insult his religion you make us look like the bad guys, so cool it and stick to the facts, yeah this guy is a coward and a creep, and hes totally nuts too.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
Keep naming names Rep. Grayson! People need to hear this! You are a true Patriot sir and a credit to your State and your Country!
pugz177 2 years ago 8
he is a true coward, and an embarrassment to his species...
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
I want 2 B Taxed like #FRANCE #CANADA #COPENHAGEN 4 my HC We Demand #HR676 Universal HC 4 ALL ppl ! Like the rest of the WORLD !
nohealthcare62 2 years ago 3
Shut up! What a shock there is an obnoxious New York bred lawyer grandstanding. Just tell us the population of the U.S., give us the number that die each year, the number that die who are uninsured, don't include illegal immigrants and the people will decide if the number is outlandish.
kbjc72 2 years ago
You want to know the plans Republicans have offered? Allow insurance to be sold between state lines, and enact tort reform, the two of those would make a HUGE dent in the price of health care, but the people who bought and paid for the Democrats (i.e. trial lawyers) dislike them so it wont happen.. Instead we get another 2000+ page sack of crap that noone is going to read, once again breaking Obama's transparency promise.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
I know all the Republican Proposals have been. It has been point out time and time again that tort Reform would do Absolutely nothing. Texas being the point in Case of this. Allowing insurance to be sold between state lines is soo open to Abuse i can't believe you used that to make your bad point. Insurance companies stand to make more profits of these two proposals on the back of the American people and wouldn't help the American people to Afford health care.
jjava83 2 years ago
The CBO said as much when the numbers were Crunched on the Republican HC bill. They said it didn't do anything to take down the costs of Healthcare in the US whatsoever.
I have both HR 3200 and 3962 1990 page bills on my computer as pdf downloads i use it whenever someone contends with me what is in it. You might not have read the bill(s) but that doesn't mean that Other people haven't. I'm not even American. and liberals are Often labeled as the Lay ones get off ur lazy ass and read it.
jjava83 2 years ago
why should I wade through 2000+ pages of purposely confusing pork? A great deal of the bill still isn't even WRITTEN yet, and yet theyre voting on it.. hmm not to mention they still need to reconcile the difference between the house and senate bills before they can pass anything. Don't doubt for a second that they took 2000+pages to say what could have been said in much less specifically because they know most americans arent going to sit down and read,much less understand 2000 pages or crap
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
I actually found the 219 page Republican Bill alot harder to wade through. So i don't really get your point.
jjava83 2 years ago
Show me your numbers that tort reform would do nothing because i sincerely suspect that you are talking out your ass. As selling between state lines being "soo open to abuse" what the hell do you think will happen when a beauracracy takes control of the health care industry.. please explain in deatail how that is a "bad point" aside from the fact that it doesn't help the people who bought and paid for the Democrat party. Choice ALWAYS costs less than a monopoly, thats just basic econimics.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
why don't you read the CBO's response to Orrin Hatch's Question to CBO about the Effects tort reform. It is only 7 pages long not too bulky to ready you should be able to get through it easily. the CBO pointed out things like alot of the states have already enacted some sort of Tort reform with little or no success. I'm not going to read it all to you i'll leave you to do that yourself.
Quoting that Letter: "Would reduce total national health care expenditures by about 0.2 percent"
jjava83 2 years ago
there is a Robert Reich Video an Youtube about the public option as well where he points out that the public option would be competing with the private option companies. If you understand that you would understand that this is no such thing as a Monopoly. If the private insurance Companies can't compete it could become a monopoly but the government wouldn't let this happen but this competition would lead to more choice i.e. basic economics. well duh dipshit.
jjava83 2 years ago
So you match one stupid statement with another? O-oI dont see your logic there but ok. When the government competes with the private sector it has two advantages. 1. It will subsidize itself to prevent itself from failing.
2. It doesn't play fair. Look at the US Postal Service. Ups and Fed EX are SO much more efficient, the USPS is bankrupt only even still running because the government pumps money to keep it afloat, yet only the USPS is allowed to send letters, and theres no good reason for it
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
And if choice and competition are such good things (and they ARE) What is wrong with allowing companies to sell across state lines? it's absolutely absurd.. adding one alternative that doesnt play fair is a good idea, but adding many that are all forced to play by the same rulse is a bad one? do you not see how insane that sounds?
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
rules*
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
cause they will move to the state insurance company tax haven and pocket profits like they do with what they get from Tort Reforms. there is nothing in this selling across state lines that suggests they will pass the benefits to the Customer is what i'm saying they don't pass any benefits they get from the tort reforms they have already activated. The healthcare insurance companies stand to gain from it but the customers don't and there is nothing in current legislation 2 say that they should.
jjava83 2 years ago
There is nothing in opening up trade channels between states that suggests that competition would be improved.
i do know that the constitution states that under powers of Congress they have the right to:
"To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"
not to mention it would inflict national rules to states that may not agree to with them. Each state should be able to enforce any HC laws they want as a free state.
jjava83 2 years ago
theres nothing in giving the government control of 1/3 of our economy to suggest competition would be improved. i find your faith in the government, any government, disturbing. i dont see what is so bad about increasing the competition and choice 10 fold rather than onefold.... it's clear you didnt listen to my points when i said the gvmt doesnt play fair, so i really dont know what else to say. it isnt fun to debate with someone who refuses to listen....
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
they dont have a choice but to pass the savings on to the consumer, its one of the basic principles of capitalism, if they choose to rip you off, someone else will undercut them and you can go with them instead, what theres no guarentee of is that the government can be trusted to essentially take over a third of our country's economy... there doesnt need to be any legislature, and if i hear nancy pelosi say "competition and choice" while blocking actual choice one more time im going to slap her.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
there are tax havens in the senate plan too, as in thgey made deals with certain states that they wouldnt have to pay taxes on this plan if they supported it. what you just described as a negative is precisely why capitalism works. other states will have to cut taxes to compete, and everyone wins.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
so MasterFhyl your great idea is to sell across state lines?? If an insurance company in my state already overcharges for under coverage, in your mind they should have the right to sell their horrible insurance to the citizens of another state too?? That's beyond idiotic. And if the public option wasn't going to work, why would the insurance companies spend over $200 million fighting against something that was going to fail anyway? Because they knew it WOULD work.
Ntownsfinest 2 years ago 2
It isn't my fault if you have completely lost sight of what the public option was all about.
jjava83 2 years ago
What is truly evil, is the fact that one of Obama's economic advisors is on record as saying we need to let old people die, because they arent worth keeping alive, and that very same man(Robert Reich) is currently giving advice to Obama, and moreso that Obama is actually LISTENING to this lunatic. Which party wants people to "die quickly" again?
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
Find any source where any Obama's economic advisors saying we should let old folks die? That's another Republican lie & smear tactic.
DiverseLA 2 years ago 4
Yes. Calling something on something they ACTUALLY SAY is a smear tactic, and yet accusing someone of saying and believing something they don't is not. I love the backwards world you liberals live in.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
Death Panels Palin lie is politifact Lie of the year apparently. how do you get out of that? I have a 75 gran that wanted to die shortly after the granda died.the doctors via the NHS in The UK won't let her. This year she has had 3 operations one on her spine and another for her wrists and the last one to replace a heart valve and apply a bypass. next year she is due to have both knees replaced. Even if palin is making an Argument Against Socialised Medicine how does this fly with her view
jjava83 2 years ago
They The doctors are not letting her die. saving her life at all costs. she is 75 for god sake. michial moore was right when he said the British people are laughing at you when you come out with Smears against the NHS a quick fact check that the newspaper headings did not represent the truth of the matter and he was right. if it wasn't so sad for the American people and taht people take Hannity Seriously it would be funny.
jjava83 2 years ago
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DiverseLA 2 years ago
Youtube wont let me post a link, but type in youtube search "Robert Reich Let you die" one of the first videos that comes will be a speech that Robert Reich (One of Obama's top economic advisors) gave at a school a while back. He gave the speech as "what the president of the united states(genericlly) would say if he were honest" I truly do urge you to look it up because thats 100% truth not a smear, its what you liberals would call "an inconveniant truth" but a truth no less.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
I have seen that Mr Reich video and it is clear 2 ne1 with a brain that is is making an an analogy. An Analogy of both Ideological positions. and theire views. You you really think that if he was making a statement of fact that the freedom loving Americans in the audience would be laughing along with him? The fact you can't tell the difference between an Analogy and a statement of fact tells me everything i need to know about you. You are dishonest. Palins death panel claim was dishonest 2.
jjava83 2 years ago
those that take peoples words out of context deserve everything they get and more. I'll Quote Grayson on this one:
"May god have mercy on your souls"
palins death panel Claim has been proved to be bunk time and time again. honestly is always the best policy.
jjava83 2 years ago
if they were bunk how come theyve been removed several times now (and now still exist in certain parts of one of the bills) actually.. how do you know so much about the bills.. and yes it is bills there is no single bill, and most of them are not complete yet. Have you actually read all 2000 pages or are you just paroting msnbc ? There is language in the baukus(sp) bill that gives doctors an incentive to encourage older people to sign a DNR.. so i dont think it's "bunk" as you say
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
i read through them from time to time the beuty of the software i use to read pdf's is that when i close it and open it opens at the page i was last reading i can tell you i'm on page 1557 of HR 3962 and all of HR 3200 which isn't as big and long. not that it matters cause none of it applies to me cause i'm not a US citizen anyway. If it were i would not have taken such a lax approach reading through them though.
jjava83 2 years ago
cause of the power of fearmongering. I think you are refering to the section that gets quoted the most and was addressed on the Daily Show with Betsy mis-informer McCaughey section 1233 labeled "VOLUNTARY ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION"
VOLUNTARY
i didn't mean to shout that is how it copies out
and it starts with:
"Such consultation may include the following"
MAY
An explanation by the practitioner of physician orders regarding life sustaining treatment"
Life sustaining treatment[s]
jjava83 2 years ago
If that section of The bill meant anything like what you think it meant and me if i was an American would be the first to object like Jon Stewart i would be right behind him and so would alot of the patriotic american liberals.
jjava83 2 years ago
Yes Alan. It's a waste to actually READ a bill before voting on it. The majority of americans dont want the changes you and others like you are trying to force on us. November will not come soon enough so we can kick this blowhard the hell out of office.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
You're an idiot. You're saying you're satisfied with the status quo regarding health care? You're okay with the 30-40 million Americans that aren't covered?
You are an evil creature. You conservatives/Republicans are very evil creatures.
DiverseLA 2 years ago 3
You're an idiot for blindly subsrcibing to the "any change is good change" theory. You're saying it doesn't matter what the change is so long as there is one? You're ok with the fact that your numbers are artificially inflated, with less than 12 million americans not having health care and actually wanting it, and this legislation does NOTHING to help them.
You are an utterly moronic creature, I am NOT a Republican, but a Libertarian, and unlike you i do not blindly follow government EVER.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
Change is good AS LONG as it's change in the right direction. You don't want any change at all. You are an evil scumbag.
And you obviously follow Rush Limbaugh, given your "stats" you're giving, regurgitated right from the pig's mouth.
DiverseLA 2 years ago 3
You've fallen for Obama's propaganda hook, line, and sinker. This is NOT change in the right direction. Youre a name-calling child and I refuse to sink to your level in exchanging insults. I listen to anyone who can back up their facts, yes Limbaugh can do that. (Obama can't) I dont believe any one source, rather i do my own research and use common sense to see that the garbage the democrats are pushing is the true evil.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
i hate 2 see people use the Argument from common Sense to me it has always been the Argument from no Argument. I don't have a Sensible Argument so i'll argue to have more Common Sense something they can't refute either way. A when all else fails claim common Sense. i hate to see people use it it degrades their Argument so much. my reading of what happened in the Senate is that the Republican's and republicans that have rebranded themselves Libertarians are Irrelevant 2 the public discourse.
jjava83 2 years ago
I hate to see people who know nothing about politics act like they do. People who criticize others for using their own personal judgement rather than allowing themselves to be manipulated by either side. Libertarians are most certainly NOT irrelevant. There are far more of than you think. There is ample proof that blindly pushing foreward with change for the sake of change is a bad idea, but at the end of the day the only one whom you can trust is yourself not the gvmt and sure as hell not Obama
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
The ultimate question is -- are you satisfied with the status quo? Of Americans getting denied coverage simply for having a pre-existing condition. Of millions of Americans not being able to afford coverage. Of health care bills being the #1 cause of bankruptcy in this country
The first post of yours that I responded to seemed to indicate that you were perfectly fine with the way things are.
If you're not satisfied with the status quo, then what solutions have you & your party offered?
DiverseLA 2 years ago
This bill being pushed through is a sack of crap. It changes NOTHING AT ALL until 3 years from now (hmm just long enough so that when it crashes and burns Obama will have already in his mind won reelection) It begins taxing ALL americans, rich or poor, IMMEDIATELY. It doesnt actually do anything to improve quality of care from anyone, and cuts millions from medicare(so it actually LOWERS the quality in some cases)
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
But we have to do.. something >.> tsch
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
And the republicans, which are not "my party" by the way, have plenty of solutions.. but the democrats, despite their promises of bipartisanship, are actually gearing up to be the most partisan congress in history, literally locking republicans out in some cases, ignoring their solutions and adding insult to injury by claiming there is no republican plan which is bull. Yes i do dislike the Democrats more than the Republicans, because i hate hypocricy.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
by most acounts it has been Acknowledged by Both sides that the proposed GOP HC bill was basically thrown in so that they could say later down the road yes we proposed something, and you tell me i don't know politics. it is a political move and most of the honest folks out there will acknowledge this. i'm going to suggest you haven't read this GOP bill either but maybe you have but the CBO ran the numbers and said that it would leave 51-52 Mllion Americans Uninsured not helpful.
jjava83 2 years ago
B most accounts the democrats laughed and scorned the pathetic attempt of a HC reform bill the Republicians i don't think anyone was meant to or was ever going to take that bill seriously and for good reason.
jjava83 2 years ago
I dont take the Democrat bill seriously, and for good reason. Its a load of crap, and it's 99% pork 1% bad policies that will lead to rationing and all around bad care.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
gah you're a broken record. "GOP BAD Democrat good." theres literally nothing the Republicans could have done and still cared in your opinion. Nevermind the fact that the Democrat bill does literally nothing except tax us for the next 3 years.. after which it DEFUNDS medicare. Oh, but its going to cost less, be deficit neutral, and give everyone much more coverage. My ass >.>
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
i thought the GOP website was good. i liked the red styled theme and the general layout. It became obvious from the outset that the Republicans would try and slow the bills passage regardless of what was inside it. how can you side with a body of people like that. If they weren't soo eager 2 spread lies about the bill i might have respected them some more. I don't like the way that America politics is played out Both sides play to win and at the expense of the American people normally.
jjava83 2 years ago
I have no idea what you're talking about, but considering the majority of americans do not want this bill to pass the republicans in the senate are doing THEIR JOBS by fighting this bill. why should they support a bill they were allowed almost no part in drafting? and *shock* theyre asking that it actually be READ on the floor before voting? Blasphemy!
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
what do we pay our representatives for if it is not to debate a bill on the floor one assumes that they are paid to read the bill before they debate it on the floor. what you are talking about it reading the bill at least twice why is this measure to read the bill on the floor in it's entirety prescribed for all bills? cause it is a measure used to filibuster and delay the bill by delaying the political process. you told me you knew and understood politics.
jjava83 2 years ago
you honestly think that you come to the floor of the house and just debate a bill you haven't bothered to read. Well maybe some of the republicans might but that isn't the way of the political system in the US. you stand to waste more Americans time by reading it in private coming to the floor to debate it and then publically reading it on the floor is a waste. all bills are available to the public by downloading from the government website.
jjava83 2 years ago
Government won't force you to read them but you are free to do so at your own will and pleasure whenever you like.this has been the case for years. Off all the public polls i have ever read asking if you (the American people) want a public option i have yet to see a poll that came out less than 50 percent most of them came out in the 60's and 70's including CBS polls which i just googled "public option poll" and found that a minute ago. do some research for once for gods sake i mean really.
jjava83 2 years ago
yes i do in fact, they did it with the "stimulus" because it was "too important" to pass it quickly. there's no way in hell every single member of congress read it in the day they had before voting on it. The same for cap and trade, and this nonsense. What did you read? the bill wasnt even fully WRITTEN yet by the time they tried to start voting on it so how could they have read it all by now. Furthermore, this doesnt even go in to effect for 3 years so what the hell is their rush?
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
Well this would be a time where assuming you made an ass out of you and me. I realize this isn't widely reported, but by "tying up the passage of the bill" what the republicans actually did was force it to be read on the floor, it has NOT been read by people voting on it, nor is it actually necessary for it to be read on the floor before being voted on. the filibuster consisted in part at least of the reading of these amendments, i know because i listened to it being done.
MasterFhyl 2 years ago
Why are [we] waiting so long? U mm, I don't know? Maybe something to do with Separation of Powers Clause in the Constitution?
Perhaps, Grayson here prefers a rubber stamp parliament like the ones in dictatorships around the globe. No debate. Just my way or the highway, approach.
Indeed why the rush. Even when this so called health care provision is passed. It won't take effect until 2014. But the taxes for it go into effect on day one. Could that be the reason Grayson's in such a hurry?
The6000Sabre 2 years ago
@The6000Sabre ,
Good one. Let's see the Democrats refute this. I love how they make fools of themselves to refute the facts. lmao
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
democrat AL Franken addressed this falsehood portrayed by Thune you can find it in |Youtube. he pointed out that none of what he (thune) said was true. i doubt you will check it out but it would destroy the Argument you just made.
java501 2 years ago
By Al Franken, do you mean Stuart Smalley?
BTW, actress Britney Murphy died today. Some decorum is in order.
The6000Sabre 2 years ago
i should have labeled the falsehood i was pointing out the Falsehood that nothing with take effect till 2014. it doesn't do that and Al Franken pointed this out to Thune who made the false claim. It isn't the only false claim; the most popular one was that of Death Panels. Palin has Almost admitted it wasn't really in the Bill but that it made for a good argument and interesting discussions. despite the fact it wasn't true. that daily show with Betsy McCaughey was extremely funny to watch.
java501 2 years ago 2
Another falsehood from the other side of the aisle has been this if you don't buy insurance you will be sent to jail. Well i reading of the bills would clear this up i genuinely don't think anyone that opposes this bill and makes that argument against it has actually read the bill. HR 3962 has one mention of jail and it is not in the context of being sent to jail it is on page 1577 HR 3200 didn't have one mention of Jail in it once. You can check this out by DLing it and running a search.
java501 2 years ago 2
i have seen enough of politics to see what happens when a party comes into power that you personally didn't vote for. the number one thing is you think the worst. i genuely think the right are the worst at this. I always thought this was entertaining cause they are willing to put 100% faith in a God they didn't vote in but are unwilling to do this for the other side of the aisle in debate. what was the first thing the right did when he was voted in?
java501 2 years ago 2
he is a communist/fascist/socialist and all that trash Arguments that comes with that point of view. Trusting the Constitution when there man is in power but not trusting it when their man isn't in power. The constitution protects against tyrants and the rights of the minority as all decent constitutions should.
java501 2 years ago 2
i think the influence and words of Montesquieu are Applicable here that "no man should be afraid of another" words which drove Madison to instigate the separation of powers. if the religious right want to run scared(or fearful) of Obama they do so cause they don't know or understand the constitution and that it alone protects against tyrannical leaders. Maybe they don't understand it or understand the concept.
java501 2 years ago 2
President Obama top 5% of his class as a Harvard law professor.
Phalinex 2 years ago 3
@Phalinex,
Too bad he flunked common sense 101.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
@Phalinex,
YOu probably told me and then came up with those bullshit stats that you can't back up huh.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
@Phalinex Where are those college records of Obama's...I sure would like to see them.
BRADMAXXX 2 years ago
@BRADMAXXX,
I just asked him. He's probably looking for them right now. lmao
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
McCain 894 out of 899 at the Naval Academy
Palin 9 years of average grades to get a liberal arts degree at a state college.
Bush graduated Yale with a 2,3 GPA as a history major
Phalinex 2 years ago 3
@Phalinex,
Sounds like someone is jealous. lmao
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
You've never found a candidate with half of the intelligence as President Obama.
You just want incompetent liars to tell you what you want to hear.
Phalinex 2 years ago 2
@Phalinex,
That's actually the Demodrones that want that. Please tell me how Obama is intelligent. The fact that he fooled the majority of American people into believing that he gave a damn?
What is his major accomplishments?
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
Why do republicans always follow the most ignorant incompetent liars like palin beck bush
Phalinex 2 years ago 2
@Phalinex,
II don't. I'm not a drone like you.
Why do Democrats follow the most ignorant incompentent liars like Obama, Clinton, Carter?
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
no public option = epic fail
mrpatience2007 2 years ago
This guy IS RIGHT ON! My husband was in HIS district when he died of cancer one year ago Oct.
My husband died because he had NO insurance and could NOT get treatment until it was too late. IF his cancer had been treated earlier he would have survived AND even been able to go back to work and CONTRIBUTE to pool of TAXES that were used to shore up Wall Street LEECHES above the Main Street working people who EARNED the money!
weslenforever 2 years ago 6
your congressman is nuts
diamonddave514 2 years ago
Don't stop the good fight, Congressman Grayson. You are a great American!
alizee2010 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This guy is just full of sh&*........
I still think most dont know there never was an individual account for anyone with S.S.I... it all went to the general fund,like all taxes do..where it wasted by the corrupt machine thats hijacked this system long ago.
Yeah stop the pain let Freedom ring again. The blood will be on the communist progressives hands ,not ours my friends of Liberty..
BRADMAXXX 2 years ago
SOme may say that you're the one that is full of...
MrSuperpunch019 2 years ago 3
@MrSuperpunch019 try me then..my channels open...
BRADMAXXX 2 years ago
Mr Enema
You are a republican therefore you don't have to explain your selfish ignorance. You only want the government to do what is best for you. Everyone else can die on the street for all you care.
The selfish ignorant greed of the republican party is obvious and disgraceful. You self absorbed losers have the mentality of an animal.
Phalinex 2 years ago 5
@Fail:I'm not a Republican. I'm a independent who voted mostly Democratic in 2004 and 2006 when I saw the war being mismanaged. There's some truth regarding the Reps being greedy. But they're by far the lesser of 2 evils this time around. Perhaps we can work on a major 3rd party to stir the sauce. The removal of party system altogether would be a better solution, but I don't see this happening.
I don't mind helping the helpless, but I'm not wasting time on the clueless. Enough is enough.
MrEmesis 2 years ago
@Phalinex/Richard8EST/Mavrek47/zeemba123,
That's a hypocritical statement if I ever read one. You're the one delusional and willfully ignorant. You just want somebody to support you while you sit on your ass and do nothing. That's probably why you know nothing about SSI because your stupid ass doesn't work so you can't contribute to it. Worthless far left scum. Racist/Anti Feminist/Anti Civil Rights/Anti Education. Sums you up. Take Grayson's advice and DIE QUICKLY.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
Oyer/ meathead / moron
Now that you've emptied your limited dysfunctional brain of all the Fox propaganda that you've been able to memorize you begin your redundant routine of personal attacks. Your ignorance exposes the fact that you are a liar. You accuse anyone that knows you're an anti government pro human suffering selfish clueless redneck as a leach .Explain the fact that most wealthy people are Democrats the most affluent areas are Democratic and most ignorant rednecks are republicans.
Phalinex 2 years ago 4
@Phalinex,
Your uneducated incoherent babbles just kill me. I normally don't respond to stupidity but you make it so easy to fuck with. Pissing off a demodrone like yourself is easy. Just use facts and logic.
Oh and you have yet to refute the facts I presented to you.
That last statement is a straight up lie. If that were true, demodrones like yourself wouldn't whine about the poor so often dumbass. I love putting you in your place. lmao
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
Why don't you try to replace some of your ignorance with facts. Check out some of the poorest states. They're packed with uneducated rednecks like yourself mostly hardcore republicans. Now check out some of the highest per capita income areas in the North East or in Major cities. They are Democrat all the way. You republicans make up the ignorant morons that are so easily duped by the corporate owned republican party of corrupt liars and ignorant redneck morons like you back them all the way.
Phalinex 2 years ago
@Phalinex,
Im assuming you're talking about that stupid video that snopes confirmed as a hoax. Please tell me where you got this information from. What are you references. I got mine. Where are yours? Not everyone who lives in the city is a demodrone dumbass. In fact most people are actually poor in the big cities as you'll go by and see 11 people in 1 house all working dead end jobs. YOur fallacy proves nothing.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
@Phalinex,
Liberal Hypocrisy. That's a lie all the way. You drones listen too much to the liberal media. Rednecks huh. If I use the n word you'll get pissed and call me a racist. Anybody with common sense will see that you're the dumbass in this debate.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
@Phalinex,
What's taking so long? You confirming your own claims? hahhahhahaha.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
ps, you calling someone uneducated is as hypocritical and Martha Stupid calling Sarah Palin dangerous.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
@Phalinex,
Here's some more facts for you to enjoy.
Obama's approval rating. 47%
Obama's Afghanistan approval rating 39%
Democrat Congress approval rating. 18%
Hell that last one is lower than Bush when he stepped out of office. lmao
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
@Phalinex
You're a total hypocrite who likes to pull B.S. out of your ass in order to lie and trash Republicans, while you condone, ignore and admire the filth and corruption that your disgusting and vile Democrat party wallows in! A sick psycho like you would have this a-hole circus clown, Alan Grayson as a hero! You two sick lying SOBs deserve each other!
rationalnow 2 years ago
Phalinex you are a intelligent person but you need to realize that, with the exception of true liberals like Grayson, the democrats are proving Ralph Nader right. Who killed the public option? Senate Democrats. Who stopped supporting a public option after the insurance companies gave her a fundraiser? Nancy Pelosi, according to The Young Turks. We are living in a two party illusion. Don't be a sheep to it.
captcrais101 2 years ago 3
Comment removed
Yostiemonster 2 years ago
@captcrais101 : exactly.
55ella2007k 2 years ago
You mean to tell me that you didn't know that you Republican brainwashed morons are anti government pro American suffering? Some of you morons are so ignorant that you believe we don't need a Federal government at all. You're built from ignorant selfish delusional greed so deep you'll fuck yourselves over just to insure that nobody else can receive any benefit from government programs.
Phalinex 2 years ago 4
Once again Oyer proves his only thought is of himself. The money you put into SS and medicare is not yours. If you die the day that you retire you get nothing.
Phalinex 2 years ago 3
@Phalinex,
Wrong. Your ignorance is astounding. Your Next of kin relative gets it Genius. Look it up. I bet you wont.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
Oyer if you post some obscure statistic that has nothing to do with this issue at hand it doesn't qualify as backing up your ignorant bullshit with facts. It is more proof that in your confused convoluted mind the government is the enemy. As long as the republicans keep your simple mind filled with anti government propaganda you'll eat it up and ask for more.
Phalinex 2 years ago 3
@Phalinex ,
I gave you the reference to back it up you dumb shit little bitch. Where did your stupid ass get that Republicans think ?Government is the enemy. I don't think Government is evil. I think Government is essential but as a last resort to fix the problems. The Demodrones want to run to the Government for solutions. YOu can read those letters you get from ssa to confirm my claims. YOu just buy what the liberal media feeds you because you are a willfully ignorant demodrone.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
@MissMoxie78 - Yea. I agree. He runs around in circles. Sure babe. Like a dog chasing it's tail.
MrEmesis 2 years ago
And more words of wisdom.. What is it with the lefts constant Ad Hom attackes? Lack of substance maybe?
paulvick2002 2 years ago
Actually the leftist are right. But then again a lot of people see that the United States was founded on slavery and native american genocide.
MrSuperpunch019 2 years ago 3
MrSupercommunist, Wow saw your page theres enough self loathing there for a whole city of people.
So we had slaves back then, is that a unique American experience? There has been slavery since the dawn of man. White men enslaved each other before they even knew where Africa was. And empire building has gone on since the beginning also. Look at all of Latin America, how many countries participated in that? But thats over now as the maps of the world have been drawn so you can stop crying now
paulvick2002 2 years ago
We killed over 100 million native americans in the 19th century man.
MrSuperpunch019 2 years ago
MrSup, Well thats a figure the left likes to throw around just like the falsehood of 1 million we killed in Iraq. I do agree during nation building millions were unfortunately killed. Millions of indigenous people were killed in every Latin American country as well as in Africa during colonization by the English, French, Spanish and Portuguese. The American experience is nothing unique, So a liberal crying about it happening here is nothing more than self loathing. It's over now dry your eyes.
paulvick2002 2 years ago
Yeah, I;m not denying that. They were all mass murders. My point is that we shouldn't be following the path of the founders or any of those tyrants in the 19th century. I'm very aware what the french and all those bastards did. You are very correct there.
MrSuperpunch019 2 years ago
MrSup, You dont think before the arrival of the Europeans that native tribes attacked and killed one another? People have been killing each other since the dawn of man and always will. Cherry picking certain events serves what point? And those "Tyrants" created a country where you have the freedom to give your opinion without reprisal and enough prosperity to be able to afford feelings of self loathing.
Maybe your a spoiled ungrateful person.
paulvick2002 2 years ago
Bullshit. People had 12 hour workdays in the 19th century. Children worked. Women had no rights. Blacks were slaved and exploited. Native americans were massacred. Fuck the founding fathers. Don't play the fucking card with me.
MrSuperpunch019 2 years ago
@MrSuperpunch019,
If you hate America, get the fuck out.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago