*Really* enjoyed these vids, Vaul. DOW2 proved underwhelming, so I finally watched this tournament to get some inspiration for ol' DOW1. You did a great job with these vids, especially with your fast and accurate "live camera". My only nitpicks are (1)you sometimes forget to turn off the annoying help text box, and (2)at first you weren't familiar with many DOW1 races' details. Minor gripes.
I recommend play with Maktaka's Bugfix Mod, if there's ever a new tournament. It's not balance mod.
Vaul, I want to thank you for this tournament.For me DoW is the best RTS out there and for some reason most people i know don't know the game....I do believe that this tournemant has showed more people what DoW is all about!I love your cinamaticview,it shows the beauty of the graphics of DoW,graphics that for me are better than DoW2.
I have seen the round of 4 and the final multiple times but the tournemant in total made a better player out of me.And the lvl of play...it's amazing,after these video's I felt like every delay i had could cost me the victory!The crons vs sm match of leragpicker and anesti was the best DoW match i've ever seen and i want to ask you to tell me about more epic matches.Can't wait for the next tournemant! ( in DoW pro maybe?)
I disagree with them having to tell the other player which race they got as soon as they spawn. If you do another VRI you should consider changing that.
Also, you could play random a bunch of times and pick only the "even" mach ups and then inform each player individually which race he will be playing for each round. That way you could avoid very one-sided matches. Just because the underdog won one, it's not a justification for lopsided matches.
If you don't let a player know which race his opponent is, you lopside the matchups even more. Often, Race-A needs a specific build order against Race-B to stand a chance, while Race-B can just go with a common build order and it will do fine regardless what race it's up against.
And if you avoid random match-ups, then you'll never see Necrons. But, a compromise could be a rule where each player has 1 "veto" to use per set of matches. He can ask for a redraw once, before match begins..
I decided to post to let you know I really enjoy your shoutcast, I been watching them for awhile but never said anything, figured it was time. Good job and keep it up
IdrialIndustries STFU! You have no clue. go read the wiki. Your info is totally wrong.
For example the Monolith is the most expensive Relic uber unit and it only has 7500 hitpoints (ports back at 2500/10000) and then you have to repair it and pay 1000 pow to build it again. All other Relic uber units are much cheaper and can be rebuilt immediately after destroyed.
And build/reinforce speed is increased by Obelisks not researches at Summoning core.
Once it is down to very low health it teleports back to its regular spot. Then you just repair it and send it back in again. It all depends on strategy and timing. You need troops out there even when the Monolith is full to try and keep the enemy from your home position that way, they wont be able to destroy your Monolith once it ports back. Of course, having other Monoliths ready to upgrade to full Monolith when need be isnt such a bad idea either...
If you get the research from the Summoning Core then ya the units do build much faster... I said upgrades but I meant research and yea these do make units build faster
i agree the players are the main determinant, but at this high level between relatively equally matched players, i think the MUs were a big problem, perhaps not in the semis, but def in the round of 16 and 8 where one bad MU and one fair loss saw you out of the tournament...
I feel that for the majority of matchups in DoW, it's evenly balanced. There are some very unbalanced matchups, but for the most part it's pretty fair.
Such as SoB vs. Orks, a fair matchup, the reason SoB lsot was becasue they didn't get a single battle sister squad to shoot the Orks with, so not only did they not have the cc ability, but they couldn't really outgun the Orks either!
No way, Darky is a better player, he totally outplayed Santiago. You thought Santi was going to win,but then Darky pulled a win out of his pocket. On the third match, I swa no wraiths whatsoever from Santiago.
Hmm sorry vaul but i have to disagree on these advantage things.. everything depends on the player. theres a counter for everything your opponent does and its up to the player to find the counter and use it :)
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
whats does it rely on then? If you've a player that can't fight a game that has a good team who versus a good player who's got a crap team then the good player's has the advantage from his skill. So Kommo beat Darky2 obviuosly from skill. Kommo had Imperial Guard (crap team)and Darky had Necrons ( good team).Who won Kommo. Even though he had Imperial Guard he still managed to defeat Darky so it does depend on the players! No team has an avantage over another if you play ypur game right!
lulz. IG is a very powerful race, while necrons are probably the weakest race in the game.
If you know so little about the game, why make statements like that? Saying no race has an advantage over any other is a rediculous thing to say about a game with 9 races.
Your right about the advantages thing, but I'd have to disagree on the Necrons comment, being a Necron player myself. Necrons is actually a very powerful race if you know how to use them. All you gotta do is try to get a fully restore Monolith as quick as you can, and have an army of overwhelming size. That sounds like alot, but its really not if you get the three upgrades from the Summoning Core. Then the units build much faster. Guass turrets would help alot too.
Upgrades don't make anything build faster. And uh, going for fast monolith as main strat isn't actually viable in 1vs1. Not even on MoM.
Yeh, cron is much stronger that people think, true enough. In the right hands, they can still win. Buuut, same can be said for every race. And pretty much every other race has more good matchups and better ones than cron.
If you build a Summoning Core you'll find two things you can research. Those are the "upgrades" I was talkin about. The first one has a part 2 to it, so thats why I said three. Full Monolith as quickly as possible for main strat isnt actually that bad, since it works for me. Sure thats not all you should be doing, but while you have your troops out keeping the enemy busy, it would be in your best bet to work on bringing out that Monolith. The Monolith is nearly indestructable.
i am gonna agree with kilithaza here it does depend on the players but sometimes a MU can be hard so if u had two pro players then most MU's are even because of the skill level of both players while if there are two average players then some of them will find MU's harder because of some races do have slight disadvantage's but in this tournament most players were even especially in the semi finals proof of that is that both games went onto game 5
all games depend on the players and the MU like belligerentwombat said its about the players fimiliarity with those races so it is basically on the players to practice that MU but its very hard to practice every MU and be good at it
there's more to it than that. Some matchups favour one race over another in a really clear and acute way - everyone who played in this tournament agrees on that.
ye i agree with u on that i mean look at the necron sm game it definetly favours sm but leragpicker managed to win so he is pretty fimiliar with that MU i honestly donno what anezti couldve done laragpicker played amazing
Anezti could have opted NOT to go asm first, he could have made different choices with them at the start, he could have used speeders instead of rhinos, he could have played that differently in a number of ways.
good point i wouldve went for speeders instead of rhinos coz the necrons are alot slower than the sm squads anyway and the speeders wouldve been for effective against wraiths in my opinion
Seriously, if you played insane mode against marines on this exact map with Necrons you would lose everytime, I think it was faults like say not going for space marines amassing a army of them or going for destroyers with the saved up cash from using marines then assault.
I don't know if you guys are really watching what is going on in these matches. The guys playing these games all agree that some matchups are not favourable at all. Try play against Tau on meeting of minds with a race like eldar or chaos. Try play against eldar, as chaos, on blood river. This is high level play, not noob games. Tau fire warriors with snares, markerlight, grenades totally wipe the floor with other ranged units. Harlequins just can't be countered by chaos at the moment.
*Really* enjoyed these vids, Vaul. DOW2 proved underwhelming, so I finally watched this tournament to get some inspiration for ol' DOW1. You did a great job with these vids, especially with your fast and accurate "live camera". My only nitpicks are (1)you sometimes forget to turn off the annoying help text box, and (2)at first you weren't familiar with many DOW1 races' details. Minor gripes.
I recommend play with Maktaka's Bugfix Mod, if there's ever a new tournament. It's not balance mod.
Mlai00 2 years ago
Vaul, I want to thank you for this tournament.For me DoW is the best RTS out there and for some reason most people i know don't know the game....I do believe that this tournemant has showed more people what DoW is all about!I love your cinamaticview,it shows the beauty of the graphics of DoW,graphics that for me are better than DoW2.
BlueMassiah 3 years ago
I have seen the round of 4 and the final multiple times but the tournemant in total made a better player out of me.And the lvl of play...it's amazing,after these video's I felt like every delay i had could cost me the victory!The crons vs sm match of leragpicker and anesti was the best DoW match i've ever seen and i want to ask you to tell me about more epic matches.Can't wait for the next tournemant! ( in DoW pro maybe?)
BlueMassiah 3 years ago
Comment removed
BlueMassiah 3 years ago
I disagree with them having to tell the other player which race they got as soon as they spawn. If you do another VRI you should consider changing that.
Also, you could play random a bunch of times and pick only the "even" mach ups and then inform each player individually which race he will be playing for each round. That way you could avoid very one-sided matches. Just because the underdog won one, it's not a justification for lopsided matches.
morbideth 3 years ago
If you don't let a player know which race his opponent is, you lopside the matchups even more. Often, Race-A needs a specific build order against Race-B to stand a chance, while Race-B can just go with a common build order and it will do fine regardless what race it's up against.
And if you avoid random match-ups, then you'll never see Necrons. But, a compromise could be a rule where each player has 1 "veto" to use per set of matches. He can ask for a redraw once, before match begins..
Mlai00 2 years ago
I decided to post to let you know I really enjoy your shoutcast, I been watching them for awhile but never said anything, figured it was time. Good job and keep it up
relevance13 3 years ago
IdrialIndustries STFU! You have no clue. go read the wiki. Your info is totally wrong.
For example the Monolith is the most expensive Relic uber unit and it only has 7500 hitpoints (ports back at 2500/10000) and then you have to repair it and pay 1000 pow to build it again. All other Relic uber units are much cheaper and can be rebuilt immediately after destroyed.
And build/reinforce speed is increased by Obelisks not researches at Summoning core.
komninosm 3 years ago
Im glad anezti is out hes really not a nice guy.
Z1cky 3 years ago
lol?
gearoidof 3 years ago
Take your time brother, you have been knocking these vids out at a crazy rate.
boxant 3 years ago
when's the final?
benzbubblecat 3 years ago
It has been played already but i'm really busy. Don't expect the videos to appear in a hurry.
VaulSC 3 years ago
Once it is down to very low health it teleports back to its regular spot. Then you just repair it and send it back in again. It all depends on strategy and timing. You need troops out there even when the Monolith is full to try and keep the enemy from your home position that way, they wont be able to destroy your Monolith once it ports back. Of course, having other Monoliths ready to upgrade to full Monolith when need be isnt such a bad idea either...
IdrialIndustries 3 years ago
"really not if you get the three upgrades from the Summoning Core. Then the units build much faster. "
Was what I was replying to.
Upgrades don't make units build faster.
Janfreterson 3 years ago
If you get the research from the Summoning Core then ya the units do build much faster... I said upgrades but I meant research and yea these do make units build faster
IdrialIndustries 3 years ago
I think I'm gonna do a study on why people with no clue always have the strongest opinions.
My hypothesis is that it's because they have no clue about them not having a clue.
Translation: No, the researches do. not. make anything build faster. Seriously, learn to play before claiming to know what you're talking about. :/
Janfreterson 3 years ago 2
I'm calling LeRagPicker for the winner.
xodarapi 3 years ago
i agree the players are the main determinant, but at this high level between relatively equally matched players, i think the MUs were a big problem, perhaps not in the semis, but def in the round of 16 and 8 where one bad MU and one fair loss saw you out of the tournament...
jamchew1982 3 years ago
Fun series. Get someone to do this for Company of Heroes and be sure to do this for DoW2!
Ruursquig 3 years ago
The races do influence the result but pay attention to the other defining factor which is the players familiarity with those races.
A bad race puts one on the back foot but skill, tactics, judgment, a bit of luck and experience can make the difference.
BelligerentWombat 3 years ago
I feel that for the majority of matchups in DoW, it's evenly balanced. There are some very unbalanced matchups, but for the most part it's pretty fair.
Such as SoB vs. Orks, a fair matchup, the reason SoB lsot was becasue they didn't get a single battle sister squad to shoot the Orks with, so not only did they not have the cc ability, but they couldn't really outgun the Orks either!
wychweapons 3 years ago
it all depends on LOVE!!
alpturantan 3 years ago 2
Loving the tournament Vaul, Dawn of War is super interesting to watch, keep up the good work.
Baligouxji 3 years ago
Santiago is way better then Darky
Santiago is the dowgod, he has the mightyest beard
3l4lc4z4r 3 years ago 3
No way, Darky is a better player, he totally outplayed Santiago. You thought Santi was going to win,but then Darky pulled a win out of his pocket. On the third match, I swa no wraiths whatsoever from Santiago.
Versus Space Marines. Come on.
wychweapons 3 years ago
I like the backround becuse the necrons won in a t4 massive battle
squidge789 3 years ago 2
sob vs tau on or favours tau? Ò_ó must have missed sth
LeRagpicker 3 years ago
Hmm sorry vaul but i have to disagree on these advantage things.. everything depends on the player. theres a counter for everything your opponent does and its up to the player to find the counter and use it :)
Kilithaza 3 years ago
that's assuming the game is balanced between all races, which it isnt.
Sotanath86 3 years ago 3
It is.. it depends on the players! you completely missed the point of my comment. EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON THE PLAYER.
Kilithaza 3 years ago
It doesn't all depend on the player. You're wrong.
VaulSC 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
whats does it rely on then? If you've a player that can't fight a game that has a good team who versus a good player who's got a crap team then the good player's has the advantage from his skill. So Kommo beat Darky2 obviuosly from skill. Kommo had Imperial Guard (crap team)and Darky had Necrons ( good team).Who won Kommo. Even though he had Imperial Guard he still managed to defeat Darky so it does depend on the players! No team has an avantage over another if you play ypur game right!
ebmusic88 3 years ago
lulz. IG is a very powerful race, while necrons are probably the weakest race in the game.
If you know so little about the game, why make statements like that? Saying no race has an advantage over any other is a rediculous thing to say about a game with 9 races.
Janfreterson 3 years ago 2
Your right about the advantages thing, but I'd have to disagree on the Necrons comment, being a Necron player myself. Necrons is actually a very powerful race if you know how to use them. All you gotta do is try to get a fully restore Monolith as quick as you can, and have an army of overwhelming size. That sounds like alot, but its really not if you get the three upgrades from the Summoning Core. Then the units build much faster. Guass turrets would help alot too.
IdrialIndustries 3 years ago
Upgrades don't make anything build faster. And uh, going for fast monolith as main strat isn't actually viable in 1vs1. Not even on MoM.
Yeh, cron is much stronger that people think, true enough. In the right hands, they can still win. Buuut, same can be said for every race. And pretty much every other race has more good matchups and better ones than cron.
Janfreterson 3 years ago
If you build a Summoning Core you'll find two things you can research. Those are the "upgrades" I was talkin about. The first one has a part 2 to it, so thats why I said three. Full Monolith as quickly as possible for main strat isnt actually that bad, since it works for me. Sure thats not all you should be doing, but while you have your troops out keeping the enemy busy, it would be in your best bet to work on bringing out that Monolith. The Monolith is nearly indestructable.
IdrialIndustries 3 years ago
Make a few examples of what isn't balanced then.
Kilithaza 3 years ago
i am gonna agree with kilithaza here it does depend on the players but sometimes a MU can be hard so if u had two pro players then most MU's are even because of the skill level of both players while if there are two average players then some of them will find MU's harder because of some races do have slight disadvantage's but in this tournament most players were even especially in the semi finals proof of that is that both games went onto game 5
matthewmcewan 3 years ago
Kilithaza said that 'everything' depends on the player. Everyone in this tournament that is in the ro8 disagrees with him.
VaulSC 3 years ago
all games depend on the players and the MU like belligerentwombat said its about the players fimiliarity with those races so it is basically on the players to practice that MU but its very hard to practice every MU and be good at it
matthewmcewan 3 years ago
there's more to it than that. Some matchups favour one race over another in a really clear and acute way - everyone who played in this tournament agrees on that.
VaulSC 3 years ago
ye i agree with u on that i mean look at the necron sm game it definetly favours sm but leragpicker managed to win so he is pretty fimiliar with that MU i honestly donno what anezti couldve done laragpicker played amazing
matthewmcewan 3 years ago
Anezti could have opted NOT to go asm first, he could have made different choices with them at the start, he could have used speeders instead of rhinos, he could have played that differently in a number of ways.
VaulSC 3 years ago
good point i wouldve went for speeders instead of rhinos coz the necrons are alot slower than the sm squads anyway and the speeders wouldve been for effective against wraiths in my opinion
matthewmcewan 3 years ago
Seriously, if you played insane mode against marines on this exact map with Necrons you would lose everytime, I think it was faults like say not going for space marines amassing a army of them or going for destroyers with the saved up cash from using marines then assault.
Gjkl345 3 years ago
agreed
ebmusic88 3 years ago
I don't know if you guys are really watching what is going on in these matches. The guys playing these games all agree that some matchups are not favourable at all. Try play against Tau on meeting of minds with a race like eldar or chaos. Try play against eldar, as chaos, on blood river. This is high level play, not noob games. Tau fire warriors with snares, markerlight, grenades totally wipe the floor with other ranged units. Harlequins just can't be countered by chaos at the moment.
VaulSC 3 years ago
Kilithaza and Ebmusic need some learning.
xodarapi 3 years ago
It's gonna be good :)
boxant 3 years ago