The Twilight of an Age

[acent2112]

excellent thnx

[drumheadcircle]

Ol'Windbag. A whole lotta fluff about nothing. Is this guy even capable of a factual sentence? Or just psycho-babel?

[spsalsm]

@drumheadcircle Oh man, I totally agree. Oil is running out? Pssh. Please. We won't make any more technological progress without the oil that's been supporting it for three centuries? And we'll actually have to do without? Come on. Aliens will save us.

[qboxer]

What a breath of fresh air John Michael Greer is from the usual doomers. I really enjoyed listening to this interview.

[reoreason]

Who are these beings within the rings of spinning vapors that appear from thick cloud like smoke and have a rainbow around their chariots? I dont think mankind knows too much what is here.

[reoreason]

Who are these beings within the rings of spinning vapors that appear from thick cloud like smoke and have a rainbow around their chariots?These are mans future

[AlexanderOKind]

As soon as the struggle for energy hits, all those in power will notice they can't have all the luxuries and will have more problems on their plate than they can handle. It's all about looking good in the eye of society, which sooner or later it shall catch up and crumble them. as it says in the Constitution the people have the power to rise and over throw the government, so now they have to hit the ground running and get on a better track than the one they're on.

[DD99able]

Great interview. I think Janaia Donaldson does an excellent job as interviewer. I am just reading The Long Descent now. I have only read about one-sixth so far but I am very impressed with what I have read so far; very readable, logical and thought-provoking.

[joyfulwands]

I think Janaia did a very good job. Some of the interiews on mainstream tv are extremely rude/interruptive. Her short responses give the impression she is listening to what the interviewee is saying.

Janaia, thank you for all you do! Including finding that small space in a large event to have this stimulating conversation~I am a bit biased when it comes to JMG though, he's great.

[lighthouseprj]

He is absolutely right. This is a very GOOD interview. Thank you for publishing it. :-)

[lighthouseprj]

He is absolutely right. This is a very GOOD interview. Thank you for publishing it. :-)

[CommongoodMedia]

I really enjoyed this Janaia. Thank you and Robyn for the awesome work you do. Few folks have the experience to understand how much production work goes into even a short interview. I couldn't care less about the technical imperfections when you're giving us such valuable access to someone like Mr. Greer. Thanks for your heart and dedication. You girls rock.

[ChrisWales22]

Oh my God I wish I was bella, this film was gooder than the last one wich was good but not as this one ha ha ha lol

[tcbink]

I had no idea that Reagan took solar panels off the white House. Then again I was in the military at that time, and this wouldn't be the only news story that was kept from the troops. Even during supposed peace time. Remember if you own the media you own the world.

[Yanqui9]

Why do they always do these impromptu interviews right next to the kitchen with all the noise and loud dishware? Is it a tradition? :-) Good interview though, I've read many of Greer's books. I like his humorous and level headed approach to alternative issues, he's not a screaming conspiracy nut bobblehead at all!

[peakmoment]

Hi Yanqui9 -- we were at a hotel at the ASPO 2008 conference, and scrambled to find a corner anywhere where we could tape John Michael! (This was a bar not yet in use in the afternoon).

His newest book, Ecotechnic Future, is quite good. I'll have some comments on my blog Janaia's Journal on the Peak Moment website.

[MrEddievanhalo]

John Michael Greer in this video pretty much demonstrates that Civilizations in reality do not work as far sustainability goes. Civilizations become too energy intensive and use up to many resources anyway...how can they work in the first place? Alot of people may disagree with this, but it seems the indigenous way of life has the only true sustainability without any collapse!

[fourplusseven]

That is precisely *not* Greer's point. First off he mentioned elsewhere that there are towns you could visit today in Italy or China which have been continuously populated in civilized form for 2,500 years or so. Second, the indigenous way of life is only sustainable for far smaller numbers of human beings than we currently have.

Civilizations can work, but they can also not work. The question is whether the right ways can be found.

[AlienTube47]

One possible solution - zero point energy. Dr Steven Greer has much to say about this saving grace.

[steve219able]

even though this may not be a great interview i think its a great conversation

[imskin]

I don't speak for all young people, but many of us ARE taking into account the changing future when we are thinking about what we want to do. Also, most the people I know do want meaningless paper pushing jobs anyway.

[AudibleAura]

me hugery... me eat...

its great how everyone likes to sit around at talk about what is wrong and how to fix it, but nothing ever gets done... sounds so Greek, right before they fell from grace =)>

[EveAngela]

your response is soooo funny!

[AudibleAura]

me hungery... me eat...

[PeakPetroleum]

Janaia Donaldson (the female presenter) needs to stop interrupting while the person shes interviewing is talking. Although she is obviously very educated on the subject i find her comments rather repetative and pointless. PLEASE JANAIA LET YOUR GUEST TALK AND STOP TALKING YOURSELF. At the end of every sentence saying "wow" "uhuh" "oh my goodness" etc... it becomes rather annoying and actually distracts me from what experts are saying and the points they are raising.

[peakmoment]

Thanks for your input, Peak. I'm working to do that.

[PeakPetroleum]

I am sorry for being rude, what your doing is absolutely fantastic and to be completely honest i had a moment of fustration! I've watched all your video's and i only wish more people would know about peak oil, i was actually wondering if you had any advice for warning my friends about this? they just wont listen.

[peakmoment]

Not rude, honest. I appreciate that. My growing edge.

Peak, your frustration is understandable. You're 21, and I'd expect your peers don't want to hear it. Consider: the mainstream media barely notices Peak Oil. Why?

One reason: it doesn't benefit those in power, the money masters.

Another: humanity has never before had an extravagant bonanza of millions of years of energy, and all it has enabled. Thus, we've never had to powerdown at a global scale. Off the charts, and easier to just deny.

[florgat91]

I like these videos and they make a lot of sense - then I tell my family/friends about peak oil and they laugh at me like I'm a kook -- and I look at the number of views here on youtube and I realize they are only a relatively few people even thinking about this stuff - it's very confusing.

[peakmoment]

You're not alone!

It's always challenging to be ahead of the pack. The mainstream media has done a fine job of suppressing this information...because knowledge of peak oil (and other resources) spells the end of the perpetual-growth economy...which is happening even now.

Perhaps share "The End of Suburbia" film with your friends. Or our DVD with Richard Heinberg on "Peak Everything" and discuss it (peakmoment-dot-tv).

For many people, denial is the first response. The implications are scary!

[NerdFangs]

I got the same reaction too. It's like John says in the video, everyone is running round in their little world of infinite growth and prosperity.

It's not you thats crazy - it's them. Don't worry about it, most people find it hard to think because they are used to being told by the media what the world is like. It's tough to deal with the fact that it's all make beleive, and that the reality of it means that THEY have to do something. Easier just to leave it to the Government....

[Burtonimus]

Another comment sorry.... With the resources we do have... like people.... you should invest in your education and find that the choices of presidents we have had over the last 20yrs have not been that good.... I find it funny but the one thing people are not tackling is education.... not reform but make the common us citizen competitive in today's market... unlike 30 or 40 years ago where you could not finish H.S. and start work and make 15-30 bucks an hour.... no more. That is the educated man

[marchbabymimi]

We need to scrap the "class mentality" in America concerning higher education. In a localized economy we'll be valuing all of our citizens' gifts and skills. One example is the horrible way we treat our farmers - they are belittled and mocked and yet our very survival depends upon them. I doubt that the US will be able to keep pouring money into universities and colleges, while our students incur huge amounts of personal debt. There must be a better way.

[Burtonimus]

The biggest Moment touched on about this video is the fact of resources. I know a few have opinions about Americans..... BUT what had made us great is the abundant source of resources we HAD. The Northwest and southeast timber or forests are "gone" or converted into parks. And therefore the gov't subsidies given to those states will not be renewed. The U.S. - states are running out of methods to provide value to markets.... we are selling our last resource to other countries.... LAND....

[peakmoment]

Yes, and America's huge oil and coal deposits placed it at the top of the world pyramid during and following World War II. Wealth and power seems to go along with those natural resources, which is why the torch of power is moving towards the Middle east and China. The American Empire is fully in decline. (Check out PM 72 about the film "What a Way to Go: Life at the End of Empire."

[maulhoik]

In America, we are on the threshold of a green energy revolution. But I don't think it will happen. The current republican party is voting 100% against anything President Obama proposes. With a handful of democrats influenced by big oil and the like voting with them, I feel for our chances for bold change.

[docrw]

He talks to much. To much of a monologue

[jiggystardust]

You're right, it needed much better special effects. Maybe a car chase or two (erm, I mean to). What really would have improved this interview is if he was running away from a massive explosion and then hit the deck just as the blast gets to him.

[wanj101982]

i dig jmg, i've several of his books on spiritual development. i should have realized being a druid also means having a deep affinity for the planet. he does pretty well on camera for a dude with asbergers syndrome. wish i could find some more vids.

[tonylee1973]

Soler power people. We can do this!!

[eyespyplats]

This was an information-rich episode! It is always interesting to step back and look at the 'big picture'. Every topic touched on in this interview could take days and/or volumes of discussion: meta-cycles, peak oil, water, mechanized life, heat, ecological living, wow....Even if a "Silver Bullet" is discovered that would give us a new liquid fuel, I'm not sure I would want that burden since it would probably continue the mechanization of human life and our dissatisfaction at such limitations

[PlanetThoughts]

Excellent content in this video, and quite balanced (as I see it). The sophisticated commenters here are also on-target. The problem being, nothing replaces the ease of extraction and energy density of oil. Unfortunately, the world population size and the living in extremes of hot and cold has become somewhat dependent on food, heating oil and natural gas, and other conveniences resulting from easy energy. As JMG says, we will go through discomfort.

[Weaseldog2001]

I agree, alcohol works, but to what purpose?

What need does it solve?

It has lower embodied energy than oil. It takes more energy to produce than oil does. It cannot ever be made in the same quantities that we pump oil in.

When we really run low on oil, you probably won't have any need to travel anywhere that you can't get to on foot.

As to the generator, mankind survived a long time without electricity. It's not that important when it comes to basic survival.

[Weaseldog2001]

I remember when Fleischmann and Pons made that famous announcement. It was a fascinating story.

But as to alternative energies, I see no reason to believe that they will come to rescue us and return us to infinite growth for a time.

So I believe our best efforts are in focusing on the here and now. What can we do to prepare as things get tougher.

Ethanol, looks like a solution looking for a problem, unless you want to dull your senses, and lower your inhibitions.

[Weaseldog2001]

i don;t agree with JMG that civilization has been here before. Never before have we done so much damage to the entire planet at once. Never before has our population reached such unsustainable levels. Never before have we covered the globe with nuclear power plants and nuclear weapons.

This time is different, and not in a good way.

[jonathanb921]

no, we haven't, but other civilizations have.

[Weaseldog2001]

Other civilizations have covered the globe, and wiped out almost every resource simultaneosly?

I think you misunderstand me. Even the Roman people had somewhere to go when they wiped out the old growth forests and the local ecology.

Hundreds of years later new continenets were still waiting to be discovered for new population booms.

Now, there is nowhere to go.

[jonathanb921]

I agree with your last statement, but other civilizations have depleted their resource base and then had nowhere else to go too. Easter Island comes to mind - can things get much worse than cannibalism? It's just a difference in scale and technology.

That doesn't mean that I believe we'll get through this with anything that remotely resembles modern civilization.

[Weaseldog2001]

I understand you now. I thought you were making a counter argument.

Easter Island is a good example of what we face.

[Weaseldog2001]

When will you be ready to publically demo your cold fusion generator?

[ya19375]

i'm going to make a large cargo ship modeled based on a viking ship, powered by sail. when the oil runs out or becomes too expensive to use, i will make a killing off of ocean crossing transport! i'm an experienced mariner, and come from a family of carpenters and boat builders. once i get my viking cargo ship built, i will be ready for this whole oil crisis thing! sign up now to be a crew member! i need people to work those oars!

[Veggieforce]

that was a good one!

[funex1]

Some good points made.

I'm not sure how that small island called "Britain" could feed itself (61m people) using organic agriculture though. I suspect the last of the oil/gas would have to be used for chemicals/farm mechanisation.

(Pre-coal the pop. of England was about 6m!)

[LastReplaySC]

divide every possibility and group of people you can feed by 60, that's the future for us without cheap energy!

The UK could support about 10 , million food wise! that means 2/3rds of us would be little local farmers the rest would be productive craftsmen  and then you'll have the usual fascist parasites living from and of us as history has shown.

[LastReplaySC]

PS: if you want to see what peak oil feels smells and looks like, you only have to visit CUBA.

The entire county is one big ruin and a living time capsule. Nothing works properly or can be repaired, the supply of technical resources and energy are next to nothing.

It's a life's time experience and a kind of future looking glass how we all could end up once importing and exporting goods are not possible or feasible energy wise!

[funex1]

LastReplaySC, if you're right and that's our future it could be a lot worse.

It could be Zimbabwe, Congo, Colombia, Iraq, Iceland in a couple of years (?), Sierra Leone, Somalia, Afghanistan, South Africa, Bangladesh.

[valhala56]

On the MSM I have heard about Obama's "New New Deal" All the talk has been on rebuilding infrastructure ie roads, bridges to the tune of $1 trillion dollars. Nowhere on the MSM have I heard them talk about changes that need to be made to accomodate available lower energy. I have heard nothing about farms, gardening, food production, distrubation.

It is disturbing to see MSM totaly miss this coming situation, not to mention the Obama govement has not broached this discussion. Unbelievable.

[edyersh]

The "coming situation" has been engineered with the goal of decreasing the population and increasing the power of the powerful. From the naive perspective that the powerful seek the good of all, it seems that they are bungling incompetents. If you understand what their true goals are, you will see how exquisitely clever their scheme is and just how evil its implementers are.

[valhala56]

For me it is hard to tell whether "the coming situation" is a result of stupidity and incompetance or as you say manipulations by an elite scheming to start a new feudalism.

I am concluding it is both.

[impalapez]

You can't eat cash...everyone needs to learn how, or act on, growing as much of your own food as possible. Jules Dervaes has done a great job, check out Path to Freedom!!!!

[edyersh]

I do hold out some hope for all those free energy technologies that have been sequestered away in secret black projects. But only something like a revolution would lead to the technology reaching the common man.

[scarmenl]

What are you guys talking about. Grow hemp by the mile. Make fuel alcohol, make building products with another part of the plant, make woven cloth/silk like products for clothing and such and make a lighter than concrete, concrete type product to build with in that way. Oh, and stop the demon bastards out there that keep steeling, killing and using mob type approaches to suppress better tech. IE the Larson Radax Engine.

[edyersh]

Do you know of any effective ways of stopping the demon bastards? This is the mother of all sub-problems.

[scarmenl]

Yes, have people grow a back bone and stand up to big oil, big pharma, big international banking and super corporations that are stealing all the funds, resources and poisoning the people and the enviroment with genetic and chemical harm and damage.

Stop buying their garbage and stand up and make some noise to your politician\s. Refuse to put up with this slave state that they are trying to put in place.

[edyersh]

So back bone growing is what is called for. Sounds to me like a time for intensive memetic engineering.

[scarmenl]

However you wish to word it. The need for people to wake up, stand up and smarten up is long over due. The governments and large corporations/banks of any country are only as strong and controlling as we let them be.

[scarmenl]

The first myth is that we are running out of oil. This is nothing but a con job put on people to allow gouging and it creates situations that allow the scum that are raping the economies of the world.

I'm not saying that we should not look for better ways than oil, it is toxic in the extream and there are much better answers.

[edyersh]

USA oil production peaked in the early 70's and then declined from there. The same thing is happening on a global scale. Factually provable. No myth here.

[magua73]

To scarmenl.

Oil is a non-renewable energy source, that means is it finite, that means that for every day it goes there is less oil in world, and peak oil is an inevitable consequences of it.

Where is the "myth" in this? I fail to see.

Peak oil is real, and we are only left with the how and when it will happen.

[scarmenl]

The Myth is in the part where they tell us that all of the existing wells are producing less and less oil. There are between two and for major fields that are sitting there that it is figured are larger than all of the Arab oil taken to date and then some. We have probably, even allowing for a steady increase in demand, enough know oil finds to last the next one thousand years. I still think, as I said, that something besides oil would be much better. Oil is nasty in the extream!

[valhala56]

scarmeni, if you want to call data collected by the IEA a "Myth", if you want to call putting Oil derricks in the North Atlantic a cheap easy way to get oil, If you want to call $4 a gallon gas we had in June 07 a myth. If you want to call the energy crisis in the Seventies a myth.

I will say this denial has it's plus's. You aren't worried and happy as a lark until you go over the cliff.

[scarmenl]

Perhaps you should read my entire post. The myth is, again, in the FACT that there are very large oil fields out there that have never been tapped. Also in Russia they are doing very deep drilling and finding a great deal more yet again. BUT remember it will still be much better to find other approaches then oil, the number of problems from using it are legion and we would be much better off using as little as possible!

[valhala56]

And where are these very large Oil fields yet to be tapped? If you know where they are, I can assure you there are companies and goverments very interested in them. So Where the fuck are they?

As far as Russia, even if what you said is true, I can assure you they will only sell to us at a very high price if at all.

And what approaches do you suggest in lieu of oil? Power your car with solar? How about wind energy? How about we convert 100 million cars to run on Mcdonalds grease?

[scarmenl]

The one major oil field is in Alaska, two others are off the east coast of Canada and the US. You won't hear about them because big oil keeps screwing around with the information. As far as another thing in lieu of oil, how about fuel alcohol! It can be grown from a number of different plants that are not people food.  How about the Larson Radax Engine that can produce more power, use far less fuel, does not require an oil pan or a rad and is rated at 54% efficient unlike the car you have now.

[valhala56]

It is not known how much oil is an Anwar. What can you refernce that states there is huge amounts of oil in Anwar, You must be talking about the Alberta Oil sands since you are not specific in what particular oil fields you are talking about.

Try to common sense, the global economy is crashing the US is going under, so you think that the US goverment is just going to ignore vital economic resources sitting in the earth just off the US coast?

[scarmenl]

ALASKA not Anwar. I can assure you that the US government you see ain't the people running this show. If you don't believe me that's fine. But having worked in these areas when I was younger I can assure you that the oil is there and that it is not going to be used for any reason that is going to benifit you and I.

[valhala56]

And please try to explain why these unamed people are witholding oil, so society can collapse faster?

You are not being specific, you say "people running the show" ok who are these people?

Again you don't tell who these "people" are and why they are witholding the oil. So if you can't be more specific or offer any evidence or proof then you are just another uneducated person giving their best guess on things you do not understand.

[scarmenl]

Go look up the Bilderburg Group, the Trilateral Commission, NWO and so on. Sorry about my spelling. I personally believe that there is a group of ultra wealthy that have vast control and are not our for your or my well being. If you don't agree that is up to you. Me I have been jailed for a crime I did not commit and have spent 16 years trying to get my life back. Before that I got around a lot and have seen a thing or two. Am I going to give you personal info? Not a chance. Enough prob now

[valhala56]

scarmenl, I didn't ask about personal information on you, I was asking about what Oil fields, what specific people are witholding oil.

I'm not going to argue with you about conspiracy groups, just think about this, if what you say is true, the Trilateral commision etc, have to get food,medicine, transportation, civil order etc. So how would wrecking the society they live in themselves benefit them?

Like many conspiracy types you misinterpet facts & come to flawed conclusions.

[scarmenl]

You have your view and I have mine. If you don't agree fine. I think that your views are the ones that are flawed and lost.

[valhala56]

Maybe so, but I ask you again, why would NWO, Bildebergs,Tri lateral commison etc wreck society? How would benefit them?

They have children, do they want their kids living with hyperinflation, civil disorder, food shortages?

What good would it do them if they couldn't get on airplane to go to the Bahamas because there is no jet fuel, or how about drive their fancy cars if there is no gas?

Please tell me how Bankrupt stores, restauants, casino's ...Shortages would benefit them?

[valhala56]

Conspiracy people see a screwed up world & because they do not understand the dynamics of the problem ie Peak Oil they conclude that it is a "Plot". When you examine your conclusions you find that the conclusions are illogical ie you can't give me a reason why the NWO would want to withold Oil from an imploding economy that could really use the money. Since the "NWO" live on the same planet as we do they cannot escape all the consequences of oil shortages either. So how would it benefit them?

[scarmenl]

Take it anyway you like! Me I hope that you are the one who is more right. I just have been around a little too much and seen the garbage that is being dumped on people. So with any luck you will the one who proves right. In the mean time when I get my law suit settled my intention is to begin another business and build things like the Larson Radax Engine. That I believe will help. I also plan to grow hemp to produce bio diesel, fuel alcohol and use the rest of the plant to make other things

[valhala56]

scarmenl you are not makeing any sense, the Big three automakers are on the verge of bankruptcy, You don't think that they wouldn't use ANY TECHNOLOGY THAT WOULD HELP THEM AND 3 MILLION US TAX PAYING WORKERS SURVIVE?

Why the fuck would they ignore a technology that could save the US economy?

Use some common sense man, think about what you would do, & your saying the gov is ignoring Oil revenues for what purpose? so they can go broke faster?

Your logic is flawed.

[scarmenl]

Think whatever you like. It's a free country, at least for now.

[magua73]

to scarrmenl:

Ok! So we at least agree that pick oil will happen, but we disagree in the when, right?

If I understood you right, you say there are plenty of oil reserves, and the "pick oil" conspiracy agenda is to inflate oil prices, right?

Well, I am afraid that is not the way it works, in fact oil companies have maintained the prices artificially low so to ensure the world's economy to be totally dependent on cheap oil. The moment oil prices arises pressure for alternatives energy increases.

[scarmenl]

You, like the rest of the people with their heads in the sand, can't seem to understand that oil at the moment is kept low so as to break opec. If you follow what has happened, the opec countries have been conned into putting huge amounts of money into security and infrastructure and did this believing that oil would stay at a much higher price. This then puts them into a position where the people that conned them make off with the money. Is there a group of people that going for power, YES.

[Weaseldog2001]

If you're right and there are unknown super giant fields that no one knows about, then that's great news. Stuff will soon get better.

If you're wrong, then the downside to pretending that the unknowns that don't exist do exist, is disaster.

It's not wise to perpetually live your live as if you're going to win the lottery tomorrow.

[nnonnth]

Wonderful interview!

I love the bit at the end about developing human capacity. JMG once told me he was learning to write with his left hand. Why? To see if he could!

It goes very much with his spiritual attitude. There's a lot of interesting abilities come with spiritual attainment - intuition, as Ms. Donaldson says, is one of the first to return. But there's more too...

[PeakOilCountdown]

What kind of crafts?

[wyncko]

carpentry, furniture, machine repair, portrait painting, weaving, sewing, metalsmithing,

[peakmoment]

Skills and crafts: anything that helps produce, maintain and repair our necessities: plumbing, cabinetry-making, metal-working, food preservation (canning, drying, smoking, etc.), machine construction, spinning, weaving, dyeing, sewing, knitting, crocheting; leatherworking (shoes, saddles); rope and net construction -- you get the idea?

[PeakOilCountdown]

Yes. Thank you both. And great show by the way.

This was a fantastic episode too. Yeah :)

[ArtistIreland]

He is right.

[2bsirius]

I'll be fining the book...I've been convinced for a long time that we are narrative making creatures who have been starved for coherent narratives.

[2bsirius]

Oops, meant FINDING...Btw I researched the book, "The Long Descent: A User's Guide to the End of the Industrial Age" and found that John Michael Greer is considered the greatest historian of peak oil...

Very interesting! Thanks!

[nnonnth]

I agree. I've been following JMG for a while but this is the first time I've video of him, very cool!

Agree too about the narrative thing. Just been studying Milton Erickson who's so good at this. Even us individual human beings can get our stories in a jam, we're so complex. A culture that does so has got problems, and we've got problems! lol

[Weaseldog2001]

It's interesting to see you in this series John. you've presented yourself well. It's good to see you here.

[Weaseldog2001]

The scope of the problem is much larger than finding a way to rest in comfort, while commuting to an office.

After the Peak, which seems to have occurred in mid 2008, the predictions are economic collapse, increased unemployement and rising food costs.