@FormulaOneSpy I don't understand your logic... rotary engines were banned after Mazda won, and you said so yourself. Whether the ban was planned a year before or not doesn;t change the fact.
@emgasu In motorsport context "ban" often echoes that something was forbidden because of competitive advantage. That wasn't the case. "Type X is banned" vs "only type Y allowed" - that is the difference.
Every single Mazda team personel must have known that 91 was to become the last year of the original Group C regulations since it was a transitional year (Jaguar, Mercedes and Peugeot already raced cars built to the new regs). Initial talks of the new regs might have started already in 1989.
@RelaxItsJustAFlare Yep!! The last screamer was the BMW V12 LMR which I had the privledge of seeing at Laguna Seca it's last year in competition. Went the next year to hear the quiet R8 just punish everyone else...and that was before the diesel. I hear ya!
Ok the truth. Rotaries were not banned because of dominance that's a myth. Group C cars were phased out for 1992. The Mazda ran under Group C regulations. More truth. The ceramic apex seals were only worn about a third of their limits. Yes probably two more 24 hour races left on engine if the exhaust held. The Mazda was not the fastest car, but the most reliable fast car. The #55 charge car was driven by formula one drivers and was the hare of the three mazda's.
@propliner You say it was the fastest reliable car.Thats exactly why it won because it could finish a race. The V8 Turbo Mercedes blew their engines and had mechanical issues and the win was Mazdas. Jaguar couldn't match the pace of the #55 car and were 2 laps down. Sure the #55 works Mazdaspeed team had great talent behind the wheel but car #18 the MazdaSpeed/Oreca (Yes team Oreca) finished 6th and the other MazdaSpeed/Oreca #56 finshed 8th
So it wasn't a fluke. Mercedes had Michael Schumacher
@keeevan Brakes period make sound. Brakes produce different resonate frequencies based on the size/material of the components and heat. Sometimes these frequencies are audible to humans. Car companies do a lot of work on component sizing to eliminate squeak under normal driving conditions. Road car brakes frequently squeak when they get hot.
Sometimes brakes make audible sound when they're hot, sometimes when they're cold. It just depends on the materials and the conditions.
cont. The brakes are loud in this video (louder than the engine) probably because the brakes are transmitting resonance through the driveline of the car and into the frame, where the camera is mounted.
I have a video of me driving a race car with inboard brakes which transmit the frequencies directly into the rollbar/tube frame which the camera is mounted on via the differential/transmission case, making the brakes quite loud on video, even if I could barely hear them while driving.
man screw all this banning shit make the car race again.......... i dont care if you have a mouse running on a wheel to power the car the fastest should win i dont care about race or make of the car or the engine it uses let it race wtf......... "gratz you won but...........your cars is to light and to fast.............." kinda bs is that?
To Formula One Spy - Also, I respect your comments and your right to have your say. People will be talking about the 787B Le Mans car for many years to come (a healthy debate). It has and will continue to be another piece of racing history. Ironically, the FIA made it more famous than it ever may have been by changing the rules.
@skp1970 Back in the day it was probably just a normal regulation revamp possibly planned as early as 1989. Years later racing fans and Mazda owners have somehow turned this rule change against wankel.
The new regs had much bigger consequences by also outlawing all those Porsches (with turbo engines) used by private teams. This lead to lousy grids in 1992 and eventually caused FIA to cancel WSPC. People who want to believe it was about "banning rotaries" of course ignore this bigger picture.
To Formula One Spy - Banning/Regulations??? It's completely irrelevant HOW you stop a car from racing. Motorsport is a business and decisions are made to protect the sport and more importantly the companies involved in putting cars on the grid. The future economic survival of any racing series involving piston powered engines is bleak if a rotary powered vehicle is racing. With it's banned racing history, REs have never had a chance from day 1.
No it's not irrelevant that people are claiming that only one type of engine was specifically "banned" when that was not the case.
"REs have never had a chance from day 1."
Did you know Mazda participated in WSPC several seaons? Stats: 7th 1983, 5th 1984, 8th 1989, 6th 1992 in the Championship. Yeah, that looks total domination that they definitely had to be banned - Oh, wait...
That must be friggin incredible and scary fun to drive one of these. I'd love to push one down the full Le Mans stretch. Hell I'd love to be a simple passenger in one. If its a two seater. Talk about one hell of a rush.
@mulsannemike They sure are except with banned Varible intake system (For fuel Economy) and also have to run an air restrictor of approx 2 inches in diameter making them pretty much uncompetitive.
The FIA can't be seen to ban an engine so they come up with equivalence factors. Like making a 13B (654cc x 2=1308cc) a 2.6l. Or they make an engine suck air through a straw like they do now
@mulsannemike Lets be honest is there really a difference between legislated uncompetitive and being banned. Its the same as being fired and being asked to leave your job.
The Mazda 4Rotor couldn't compete in 1992 and when it was allowed back it was only allowed to compete providing it could suck through a straw and had the VIT removed (Which was banned - pretty sure no other cars ran VIT) Which was why Mazda pulled the plug on the factory backed team.
Nope, rotary engines were not banned. Correct that they weren't anymore allowed in 1992 but it was same situation for half of the grid that didn't have yet 3.5 L V8-12 engine. The rule change was planned at least a year before the 1991 race (which Mazda won).
So it absolutely incorrect to say rotary engines were banned because they dominated... because they didn't. Mazda never won any other race than Le Mans and that includes several seasons in the Worlds Sportscar Championship.
I was talking about the prototype cars, since 787B was a prototype. Mazda's RX cars were also sucessful in IMSA's GT classes (not the same thing as the IMSA GTP prototype class).
@mee198205 US IMSA Series - They dominated the GTO class. The RX-7 has won more IMSA races than any other car model. Also won the ATCC (Australian Touring Car Championship) in 1984. Banned in '85
@FormulaOneSpy theres a simple explanation for Mazda never winning any other major championship. To start the 787B was band from LeMans, and secondly not all Mazda's run the 4 rotor engine they usually have the three rotor (RX7FD). As far as i know those 3 rotor RX7's kick as much ass as the 787B did in nowdays. There is the probability that the only reason stopping Mazda from converting the 3 rotor RX7's to 4 rotor RX7's is that the 4 rotor was banned not rotarys themselves but just the 4 rotor
If you looked more closely at motorsports regulations, specifically Le Mans, you would realize they are not banned. Regulations do allow them, altough likely do not favour them. There has even been couple of prototype cars (private teams) with rotaries in recent years.
Grand Am GT class has Mazda with rotaries.
And once again, this has absolutely nothing to do with 1991 Le Mans, it's result and the then upcoming new regulations for 1992.
@FormulaOneSpy fucking finally someone with some fucking sense. Continuing on that year with that car they couldnt win a damn race. they only won 1 race that whole year. Respectively they did improve the engine by a lot.
@FormulaOneSpy In 1968 the 110S Cosmo Sport (The first production rotary built) which was de-tuned to 96kW for reliability ran the Marathon de la Route and was Mazda`s FIRST international event.They finished 4th at the end of the 84 hr race!! Didn`t win but credible result for first race! The First generation RX7 the R100 which competed in the European Touring Car Challenge was victorious in the 1979 ISMA Series at the Daytona 24 hr race.
@FormulaOneSpy Funnily enough after Mazda`s Win at Le mans it has been said that when Le mans officials and engineers pulled apart the R26B 4 Rotor engines after the 24hr race they sheepishly announced that the motor was in such good condition it could do another 24hrs!!! By coincidence the next year the rules were changed therefore sidestepping the power to weight & reliability issues. The changes were planned a year before but the result obviously cemented the decision.
"The changes were planned a year before but the result obviously cemented the decision."
Ehm... 1991 was already a transition year, so rmust have been pretty much cemented already in maybe mid-1990 (of course manufacturers need to know what to build for next year). Mercedes, Jaguar (excluding Le Mans where they used their trusted V12s) and Peugeot were already using engines and cars made for the 1992 rules.
This "two class system" kinda watered down the whole 1991 championship actually...
@FormulaOneSpy It may have pissed them off a bit too the Japs winning a European mainstay of Motorsport. Besides all that the 787B is a fuckin` outright BEAST!!!
That's the only reason they banned it, Japs won their most beloved race in their own backyard lol it's like at Daytona 500 a Mexican beats all the rednecks there will be an outrage. But they let teams like Renault,Williams and Ferrari yes Ferrari too because Schumacher was just pushing guys off the track just so he can win it wasn't an accident because of a tight race but just plain cheating.
@BruteCommando lol.. like the 2010 race schumi got a small ban for running a guy completely off the track.. and it couldnt of been more clear.. infact had the pit wall been a bit longer the guy would of crashed at top speed. i dont think he gets that now he isnt the big number one he cant get away with that kinda bs without punishment..
@Bongwater123 The question should be "why only 3.5L NA engines were allowed from 1992 onwards?" (I believe originally from 1991 onwards, but it was delayed). Answer it was just concept change and it could have worked but now we know it didn't and it almost solely caused the downfall of World Sportscar Championship. But the rule change had nothing to do with specifically Mazda nor rotary engines.
@sidodorifto (FormulaOneSpy is my other account) Maybe I could have been clearer but obviously I was only talking about the World Sportscar Championship and RX7s has nothing to do with it.
I can't believe how this "rotaries outlawed because of too much success" thing keeps going on every youtube comments pages relating to Mazda and Le Mans...
Everyone seems to forgot "outlawing of rotaries" coincides with the ill fated 3.5L NA engine rule. Turbos were outlawed too!
Also the Mazda weren't exactly the most successful car in World Sportscar Championship.
first of all mazda does very well in the alms series second with mazda beatting out the benz with reliability not horsepower made them scared. you kill the rotary with porting rules it was so bad on them mazda ran piston engines and came in second. yet you and other rotory haters rather see a audi win every year discrimination is so sad. fear of change !!!!!!!!!!!!blatblatblatblatblat rotory roar
ALMS is different than World Sportscar Championship (and in the 80/90s Le Mans was part of it)... plus the "Mazda" (really a Lola chassis with AER-Mazda engine) car in ALMS is not a rotary.
Am "rotary hater"? If correcting facts is that, so be it then..
I'll say it again: rotaries alone were not banned. Just EVERYTHING else than 3.5L NA engines were OUTLAWED. That included practically half of the cars then - the turbo Porsches. Due this grids dropped to 10 cars for 1992 season. This was FIA's great idea to have common engine format between sportscars and F1, and maybe lure manufacturers to F1. It didn't quite work out and only year later World Sportscar Championship collapsed and Group C died.
and they made sure not to correct their ignorence btw don't preach that bullshit of what did to the other piston engine manufactures with over 150 years of devlopment the rotory was less than 40 yrs old. the fact remains the rotory was not banned it was just forced to park and pray to defend the win they had in 91.
Why don't you preach that turbo engines were banned and Porsche was forced out of the business?
There was nothing against rotaries alone. New rules outlawed EVERYTHING that was not 3.5 litre naturally aspirated. You just don't want to get this, do you?
Plus, how about the fact, that engine format change for 1992 was already known before Mazda even won Le Mans? after all, 1991 was a transition year between the original Group C regs and the new 3.5L NA regs
dont let politics blind the fact the FIA was afraid of mazdas reliability with the rotory they seen the succes mazda could have.hell they seen the wins, the championships, MAZDA won in the U.S.A
What wins and championships besides 1991 Le Mans win?
Explain why the 787 would have been even seen "too dominant". 21 races, 1 victory (Le Mans). In 1991 World Sportscar Championship it finished 5th in the championship - after Jaguar, Peugeot and Mercedes and one private team using Spice-Ford.
3.5 litre NA engine rule was the stupidest thing ever and practically started the downfall of Group C. But DON'T take that as an attack against rotaries.
that peugeot at the end was classic. the sound of the 787b was godly down the straights. it's right up there, in my book of the greatest sounding car engines, at le mans, of all time.
the tranny couldnt take 10.5 its the only reason 9k must be for emergencies so they dont blow it up after 24 hours...there was no wear on the motor after the race, blame porsche for the shitty tranny, lol
The "low for a rotary" rev limit of around 9000 rpm during the race apparently was so the car would keep to the fuel consumption formula that was in force at the time. It was also mentioned that if they let it rev to around 10,500ish (which engineers apparently said is no problem) power would have jumped from 700hp to around 900hp. Don't flame me for this, I am just passing on what I read in an article about the 787B once!
in one of the sport videos called havoc versions 1 , 2, or 3
can't remember exactly it had a shot of a le mans car coming into indianapolis and shifting out of 5 th into second instead of fourth needless to say it was the end of his race.
I'd suggest that the car is not the 787b, but rather the 767b Tripple rotor from the '89 or '90 season. Colour of those cars were silver/blue detailing as apposed to the 787b's orange patchwork design.
Have to agree,was at every lemans from 1985 to 2003,the 4-rotor was just painfully loud,with the previous 3-rotor your ears bled(almost),Porsche=purred,Mercedes=rumbled,Jaguar=wailed,Mazda 4R=screamed,Mazda 3R=torture
as for the car being banned for being "unfair" to the competition. That's ridiculous, it one one friggin race while other manufacturers such as Porsche dominated the 80s, wouldn't that be a considered "unfair?"
Yeah, exactly. Fast shifting tends to wear out the syncros and the gearbox in general. I know at that time they used to say brake at the 200 m board when they could really brake at 150 m, just to protect the brakes, among other things.
Seems like a very sketchy car too, he's having to make an inordinate amount of steering corrections in the turns etc (compared to say that other vid of the 956 before the chicanes), so I'm sure they need to be a little more careful to last the whole race.
If you wanna feel this car, buy it on the game Gran Turismo 4 (playstation 2) and buy it! it's cheap, only 3.500.000 (3 millions and a half) I have one with 905hp (it's tunned) this car (in the game) has a superb time wear...u don't need many pit spots during a race.
So who's the lucky chap driving it? The only disadvantages i can think of the rotary engines is that they are very poor on emissions and use a lot of fuel, I dont think it should of been banned in 1991 due to a lower weight compared to the other cars, its disadvantage of using more fuel, and probably a couple more pitstops should of made it ok to continue fairly :(
David Kennedy, Stefan Johansson or Maurizio Sandro Sala. By the way they were not banned as such from competing - the world sportscar racing rules simply outlawed anything that didn't use a 3.5L F1 engine. It was a change which had been on the cards since 1988, sadly :(
Here's the thing Maxilicious, in 91 Le Mans cars ran to a fuel consumption formula. The superior fuel economy of the 787B compared to the Jag and Merc etc with 7.4L engines, allowed Mazda to run the car flat out for the full 24 hours. The Jags in particular had to back right off so they didn't run out of their allocated fuel stock. Yes, they suck fuel for their capacity, but are not as bad when comparing it to performance. The Mazda was 1000kg like all the other cars (Jag/Merc etc.).
Those are the good old days when there's no chicane on the back straight. And Mazda did a good job on winning the Leman in front of the once all mighty Mercedes Benz C12? or C9?
video on this car it's actually a 787, because at the top of the car that says Mazdaspeed has the color blue.the other one has the same design, has the color on the top yellow and that was the other 787B.Remember they only raced with two 787B's And one 787.
The R390 was never really on the same level as the 787B, other group C, or LMP cars. The R390 had a few basic problems like the weight. The straight line speed and lap times could never compete with cars like the GT ONE and later the R8.
Only if they put a 4rotary in a production car...
RTic83 3 months ago
Sounds so COOL!
f40f50enzof60 5 months ago
I dont think ill ever understand how on earth you could take a hand off the steering wheel everytime you needed to change gear
razghost 7 months ago
@FormulaOneSpy I don't understand your logic... rotary engines were banned after Mazda won, and you said so yourself. Whether the ban was planned a year before or not doesn;t change the fact.
emgasu 7 months ago
@emgasu In motorsport context "ban" often echoes that something was forbidden because of competitive advantage. That wasn't the case. "Type X is banned" vs "only type Y allowed" - that is the difference.
Every single Mazda team personel must have known that 91 was to become the last year of the original Group C regulations since it was a transitional year (Jaguar, Mercedes and Peugeot already raced cars built to the new regs). Initial talks of the new regs might have started already in 1989.
deggis4 7 months ago
One of the best sounding engines ever by a rotary and fair play to mazada for making it work and keeping it going in the RX8
MrMikeJkay 8 months ago
R26B ...... !!!! :)
beerocked 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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AngelaaSiuay331 10 months ago
They should just play rotary sounds on the mulsanne through loudspeakers. That way we can ignore the fact that the new diesels are as boring as fuck.
RelaxItsJustAFlare 10 months ago
@RelaxItsJustAFlare Yep!! The last screamer was the BMW V12 LMR which I had the privledge of seeing at Laguna Seca it's last year in competition. Went the next year to hear the quiet R8 just punish everyone else...and that was before the diesel. I hear ya!
wrenhour 10 months ago
Awe man those poor brakes!!!
capricornGTR 10 months ago
Wish I could even sit in one of those someday..
salakalastaja 11 months ago
the brakes are louder than my mam's car! lol what a car the 787B was!
DannyBoySmith1993 11 months ago
It a shame they banned it. It was one of the fastest le mans in history
badbob099 1 year ago
Ok the truth. Rotaries were not banned because of dominance that's a myth. Group C cars were phased out for 1992. The Mazda ran under Group C regulations. More truth. The ceramic apex seals were only worn about a third of their limits. Yes probably two more 24 hour races left on engine if the exhaust held. The Mazda was not the fastest car, but the most reliable fast car. The #55 charge car was driven by formula one drivers and was the hare of the three mazda's.
propliner 1 year ago
@propliner You say it was the fastest reliable car.Thats exactly why it won because it could finish a race. The V8 Turbo Mercedes blew their engines and had mechanical issues and the win was Mazdas. Jaguar couldn't match the pace of the #55 car and were 2 laps down. Sure the #55 works Mazdaspeed team had great talent behind the wheel but car #18 the MazdaSpeed/Oreca (Yes team Oreca) finished 6th and the other MazdaSpeed/Oreca #56 finshed 8th
So it wasn't a fluke. Mercedes had Michael Schumacher
RotorRian 1 year ago
@propliner I know all that, I have it on tape and happen to race a Mazda in SCCA. FES endurance race champion 2008 and 2010. Regards
propliner 11 months ago
great
sardosfish 1 year ago
The brakes need oil ...LOL
ViperSRTnACR 1 year ago
@ViperSRTnACR ceramic brakes always make sound when they are cold. NEVER put shit on your brakes, let alone oil.
keeevan 1 year ago
@keeevan Brakes period make sound. Brakes produce different resonate frequencies based on the size/material of the components and heat. Sometimes these frequencies are audible to humans. Car companies do a lot of work on component sizing to eliminate squeak under normal driving conditions. Road car brakes frequently squeak when they get hot.
Sometimes brakes make audible sound when they're hot, sometimes when they're cold. It just depends on the materials and the conditions.
MadCat360 1 year ago
cont. The brakes are loud in this video (louder than the engine) probably because the brakes are transmitting resonance through the driveline of the car and into the frame, where the camera is mounted.
I have a video of me driving a race car with inboard brakes which transmit the frequencies directly into the rollbar/tube frame which the camera is mounted on via the differential/transmission case, making the brakes quite loud on video, even if I could barely hear them while driving.
MadCat360 1 year ago
@keeevan
And his wipers need anti-coolant for automatic transmissions....
SubSonicSlapz 1 year ago
Comment removed
SubSonicSlapz 1 year ago
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@ViperSRTnACR
And his wipers need anti-coolant for automatic transmissions....
SubSonicSlapz 1 year ago
has the 787b an automatic gearbox
gasteinerboy 1 year ago
@gasteinerboy no its a manual gearbox with clutch
ghoulunaticzdylan 1 year ago
@gasteinerboy Watch his right hand mate.
dannaryan 1 year ago
man screw all this banning shit make the car race again.......... i dont care if you have a mouse running on a wheel to power the car the fastest should win i dont care about race or make of the car or the engine it uses let it race wtf......... "gratz you won but...........your cars is to light and to fast.............." kinda bs is that?
Th3Best0ne 1 year ago
@FormulaOneSpy - Good comment and point taken.
I think Rotor Heads like myself are pretty passionate bunch and we may be blowing the whole thing out of proportion after reading your comment. LOL!
skp1970 1 year ago
its not just cold breaks, its dust accumulation from doing warp speed it builds between the friction points.
JohnnyGasTank 1 year ago
To Formula One Spy - Also, I respect your comments and your right to have your say. People will be talking about the 787B Le Mans car for many years to come (a healthy debate). It has and will continue to be another piece of racing history. Ironically, the FIA made it more famous than it ever may have been by changing the rules.
skp1970 1 year ago
@skp1970 Back in the day it was probably just a normal regulation revamp possibly planned as early as 1989. Years later racing fans and Mazda owners have somehow turned this rule change against wankel.
The new regs had much bigger consequences by also outlawing all those Porsches (with turbo engines) used by private teams. This lead to lousy grids in 1992 and eventually caused FIA to cancel WSPC. People who want to believe it was about "banning rotaries" of course ignore this bigger picture.
FormulaOneSpy 1 year ago
To Formula One Spy - Banning/Regulations??? It's completely irrelevant HOW you stop a car from racing. Motorsport is a business and decisions are made to protect the sport and more importantly the companies involved in putting cars on the grid. The future economic survival of any racing series involving piston powered engines is bleak if a rotary powered vehicle is racing. With it's banned racing history, REs have never had a chance from day 1.
skp1970 1 year ago
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No it's not irrelevant that people are claiming that only one type of engine was specifically "banned" when that was not the case.
"REs have never had a chance from day 1."
Did you know Mazda participated in WSPC several seaons? Stats: 7th 1983, 5th 1984, 8th 1989, 6th 1992 in the Championship. Yeah, that looks total domination that they definitely had to be banned - Oh, wait...
FormulaOneSpy 1 year ago
There were two 787s at Le Mans in 1991 - the white #18, and the famed orange and green #55, which won overall. The #18 is the one shown in the vid.
OfficialNonsense 1 year ago
@OfficialNonsense There were 3 x #55, #56 (Renown - Orange/Green) and #18 (Mazda - White / Blue)
RotorRian 10 months ago
That must be friggin incredible and scary fun to drive one of these. I'd love to push one down the full Le Mans stretch. Hell I'd love to be a simple passenger in one. If its a two seater. Talk about one hell of a rush.
DriftAnime 1 year ago
Human beings are granted the power of hearing. Lets make that useful by listening to something good, like this. I'm looking at you Peugeot and Audi.
leylandcarsloverslea 1 year ago 5
mazda?? white mazda 787b?
6277302 1 year ago
Mazda Team
ViniciusLimaRS 1 year ago
I think only one was the weird orange and green colour cause of one of the sponsors. im not to sure though.
MetaKnightsKirby 1 year ago
i wanna those brakes...!
MammaRuaBagassaa 2 years ago
Dude what?
ATLhometownATL 2 years ago
i want brakes like those on my car...
MammaRuaBagassaa 2 years ago
I want that engine!!
MrJoelAlonso 2 years ago
its unfair that rotary rengine was banned from le mans. it was interesting to see rotary engines vs diesel engines
joelmafonso 2 years ago 4
Rotary engines haven't been banned, they are eligible under current LMP regulations.
mulsannemike 2 years ago 5
thats about the same lol
olahinc 2 years ago
@mulsannemike They sure are except with banned Varible intake system (For fuel Economy) and also have to run an air restrictor of approx 2 inches in diameter making them pretty much uncompetitive.
The FIA can't be seen to ban an engine so they come up with equivalence factors. Like making a 13B (654cc x 2=1308cc) a 2.6l. Or they make an engine suck air through a straw like they do now
RotorRian 1 year ago
@RotorRian
Point wasn't whether or not they were legislated uncompetitive, point was to counter the complete myth they were banned; they were not.
mulsannemike 10 months ago
@mulsannemike Lets be honest is there really a difference between legislated uncompetitive and being banned. Its the same as being fired and being asked to leave your job.
The Mazda 4Rotor couldn't compete in 1992 and when it was allowed back it was only allowed to compete providing it could suck through a straw and had the VIT removed (Which was banned - pretty sure no other cars ran VIT) Which was why Mazda pulled the plug on the factory backed team.
RotorRian 10 months ago
They were banned from Group C following the introduction of the 3.5 regs which heavely favored the Formula 1 based 3.5 litre V10s.
zytekfan 2 years ago
Nope, rotary engines were not banned. Correct that they weren't anymore allowed in 1992 but it was same situation for half of the grid that didn't have yet 3.5 L V8-12 engine. The rule change was planned at least a year before the 1991 race (which Mazda won).
So it absolutely incorrect to say rotary engines were banned because they dominated... because they didn't. Mazda never won any other race than Le Mans and that includes several seasons in the Worlds Sportscar Championship.
FormulaOneSpy 2 years ago 26
1969 R-100 won grand prix of singapore
1992 and 93 rx7 won 12 hour bathurst and there is more just cant remember
mee198205 2 years ago
I was talking about the prototype cars, since 787B was a prototype. Mazda's RX cars were also sucessful in IMSA's GT classes (not the same thing as the IMSA GTP prototype class).
FormulaOneSpy 2 years ago
Allan Moffat. Top Bloke.
DeadlySausage 2 years ago
@mee198205 US IMSA Series - They dominated the GTO class. The RX-7 has won more IMSA races than any other car model. Also won the ATCC (Australian Touring Car Championship) in 1984. Banned in '85
RotorRian 10 months ago
@FormulaOneSpy theres a simple explanation for Mazda never winning any other major championship. To start the 787B was band from LeMans, and secondly not all Mazda's run the 4 rotor engine they usually have the three rotor (RX7FD). As far as i know those 3 rotor RX7's kick as much ass as the 787B did in nowdays. There is the probability that the only reason stopping Mazda from converting the 3 rotor RX7's to 4 rotor RX7's is that the 4 rotor was banned not rotarys themselves but just the 4 rotor
steveo2619 1 year ago
@FormulaOneSpy
if you look closely at most motorsports, they are outright outlawed specifically including le mans.
Truenofan 1 year ago
If you looked more closely at motorsports regulations, specifically Le Mans, you would realize they are not banned. Regulations do allow them, altough likely do not favour them. There has even been couple of prototype cars (private teams) with rotaries in recent years.
Grand Am GT class has Mazda with rotaries.
And once again, this has absolutely nothing to do with 1991 Le Mans, it's result and the then upcoming new regulations for 1992.
FormulaOneSpy 1 year ago
@FormulaOneSpy fucking finally someone with some fucking sense. Continuing on that year with that car they couldnt win a damn race. they only won 1 race that whole year. Respectively they did improve the engine by a lot.
orimabu 1 year ago
@FormulaOneSpy In 1968 the 110S Cosmo Sport (The first production rotary built) which was de-tuned to 96kW for reliability ran the Marathon de la Route and was Mazda`s FIRST international event.They finished 4th at the end of the 84 hr race!! Didn`t win but credible result for first race! The First generation RX7 the R100 which competed in the European Touring Car Challenge was victorious in the 1979 ISMA Series at the Daytona 24 hr race.
78Sabre 1 year ago
@FormulaOneSpy Funnily enough after Mazda`s Win at Le mans it has been said that when Le mans officials and engineers pulled apart the R26B 4 Rotor engines after the 24hr race they sheepishly announced that the motor was in such good condition it could do another 24hrs!!! By coincidence the next year the rules were changed therefore sidestepping the power to weight & reliability issues. The changes were planned a year before but the result obviously cemented the decision.
78Sabre 1 year ago
"The changes were planned a year before but the result obviously cemented the decision."
Ehm... 1991 was already a transition year, so rmust have been pretty much cemented already in maybe mid-1990 (of course manufacturers need to know what to build for next year). Mercedes, Jaguar (excluding Le Mans where they used their trusted V12s) and Peugeot were already using engines and cars made for the 1992 rules.
This "two class system" kinda watered down the whole 1991 championship actually...
FormulaOneSpy 1 year ago
@FormulaOneSpy It may have pissed them off a bit too the Japs winning a European mainstay of Motorsport. Besides all that the 787B is a fuckin` outright BEAST!!!
78Sabre 1 year ago
@78Sabre
That's the only reason they banned it, Japs won their most beloved race in their own backyard lol it's like at Daytona 500 a Mexican beats all the rednecks there will be an outrage. But they let teams like Renault,Williams and Ferrari yes Ferrari too because Schumacher was just pushing guys off the track just so he can win it wasn't an accident because of a tight race but just plain cheating.
BruteCommando 1 year ago
@BruteCommando lol.. like the 2010 race schumi got a small ban for running a guy completely off the track.. and it couldnt of been more clear.. infact had the pit wall been a bit longer the guy would of crashed at top speed. i dont think he gets that now he isnt the big number one he cant get away with that kinda bs without punishment..
fergus1494 1 year ago
@FormulaOneSpy it is true that rotary engines werent banned. but it's true that the 4 rotor engine was banned due to "unfair advantage".
BOBALAC86 1 year ago
@BOBALAC86 It's like you did not understand a single F-ing word I have said.
FormulaOneSpy 1 year ago
@FormulaOneSpy This is number #18 Mazda.. no number 55!
LordNikon08 1 year ago
@FormulaOneSpy why werent rotary engines allowed anymore then?
Bongwater123 6 months ago
@Bongwater123 The question should be "why only 3.5L NA engines were allowed from 1992 onwards?" (I believe originally from 1991 onwards, but it was delayed). Answer it was just concept change and it could have worked but now we know it didn't and it almost solely caused the downfall of World Sportscar Championship. But the rule change had nothing to do with specifically Mazda nor rotary engines.
deggis4 6 months ago
@FormulaOneSpy not sure but didn't Mazda win do to Mercedes fuel or oil pump ?
nawzy202 5 months ago
@FormulaOneSpy you forget the 100 victories by the rx7....so your incorrect in saying that mazda never won any other race besides Le Mans
sidodorifto 3 months ago in playlist All Rotary Powered
@sidodorifto (FormulaOneSpy is my other account) Maybe I could have been clearer but obviously I was only talking about the World Sportscar Championship and RX7s has nothing to do with it.
deggis4 3 months ago
@eclipse3248,
Rotary's not banned from ALMS,just not viable with current airrestrictors. Rotary would look like a slow engine then.
(shame)
GTfour01 2 years ago
@xcruzrr6,
Nope,787B=4 rotor 700hp
GTfour01 2 years ago
am i wrong? but i think that the brakes are missing some oil
tuchicilina 2 years ago
Racing brakes are loud.
XR4turbo 2 years ago
Yea, they squeak a lot when not in the proper temperature, which is super hot.
op3l 2 years ago 7
that would get innoying wouldnt it
lespaulzmm 2 years ago
....You don't oil your breaks. Doing so defeats the purpose entirely.
They're just cold, is all.
TestECull 2 years ago 37
God damnit TestE, go to bed. You can't even spell "brakes" properly.
TestECull 2 years ago
@TestECull I oil my brakes sometimes. But I keep it in a bottle that feeds it to the brake calipers in a tube. Am I doing it wrong? :P
op3l 10 months ago
If you also put WD-40 on your brakes when the car is sitting around for a while you can prevent rust so they brake better when you next drive. :D
ohgah42 2 years ago
I can't believe how this "rotaries outlawed because of too much success" thing keeps going on every youtube comments pages relating to Mazda and Le Mans...
Everyone seems to forgot "outlawing of rotaries" coincides with the ill fated 3.5L NA engine rule. Turbos were outlawed too!
Also the Mazda weren't exactly the most successful car in World Sportscar Championship.
Plus, modern LMP regs allow rotaries.
FormulaOneSpy 2 years ago
first of all mazda does very well in the alms series second with mazda beatting out the benz with reliability not horsepower made them scared. you kill the rotary with porting rules it was so bad on them mazda ran piston engines and came in second. yet you and other rotory haters rather see a audi win every year discrimination is so sad. fear of change !!!!!!!!!!!!blatblatblatblatblat rotory roar
bunlangtang 2 years ago 4
ALMS is different than World Sportscar Championship (and in the 80/90s Le Mans was part of it)... plus the "Mazda" (really a Lola chassis with AER-Mazda engine) car in ALMS is not a rotary.
Am "rotary hater"? If correcting facts is that, so be it then..
FormulaOneSpy 2 years ago
in alms the rx8 has a 3 rotor!!!!!!!!!!!big dummy
bunlangtang 2 years ago
There is no RX8 in ALMS. Who is the dummy? You probably Grand-Am, which is totally different series and nothing to do with Le Mans prototypes.
FormulaOneSpy 2 years ago 4
u kno they banned rotorys in alms, but rx8 running 2 rotor in 24 hours series
eclipse3248 2 years ago
i think they are running 3rotors
xcruzrr6 2 years ago
I'll say it again: rotaries alone were not banned. Just EVERYTHING else than 3.5L NA engines were OUTLAWED. That included practically half of the cars then - the turbo Porsches. Due this grids dropped to 10 cars for 1992 season. This was FIA's great idea to have common engine format between sportscars and F1, and maybe lure manufacturers to F1. It didn't quite work out and only year later World Sportscar Championship collapsed and Group C died.
FormulaOneSpy 2 years ago
and they made sure not to correct their ignorence btw don't preach that bullshit of what did to the other piston engine manufactures with over 150 years of devlopment the rotory was less than 40 yrs old. the fact remains the rotory was not banned it was just forced to park and pray to defend the win they had in 91.
bunlangtang 2 years ago
Why don't you preach that turbo engines were banned and Porsche was forced out of the business?
There was nothing against rotaries alone. New rules outlawed EVERYTHING that was not 3.5 litre naturally aspirated. You just don't want to get this, do you?
FormulaOneSpy 2 years ago 2
Plus, how about the fact, that engine format change for 1992 was already known before Mazda even won Le Mans? after all, 1991 was a transition year between the original Group C regs and the new 3.5L NA regs
FormulaOneSpy 2 years ago
dont let politics blind the fact the FIA was afraid of mazdas reliability with the rotory they seen the succes mazda could have.hell they seen the wins, the championships, MAZDA won in the U.S.A
bunlangtang 2 years ago
What wins and championships besides 1991 Le Mans win?
Explain why the 787 would have been even seen "too dominant". 21 races, 1 victory (Le Mans). In 1991 World Sportscar Championship it finished 5th in the championship - after Jaguar, Peugeot and Mercedes and one private team using Spice-Ford.
3.5 litre NA engine rule was the stupidest thing ever and practically started the downfall of Group C. But DON'T take that as an attack against rotaries.
FormulaOneSpy 2 years ago
That sound is Godliness
MDXSTER 2 years ago
The big monster of Wankel engine. 4 big rotors. Winner of Le Mans 91,
ViniciusLimaRS 3 years ago
that peugeot at the end was classic. the sound of the 787b was godly down the straights. it's right up there, in my book of the greatest sounding car engines, at le mans, of all time.
thedriver 3 years ago
Old is GOLD.
yellowbird479 3 years ago 2
The whiper looks like its hanging on for dear life LOL!
ejektro 3 years ago
the tranny couldnt take 10.5 its the only reason 9k must be for emergencies so they dont blow it up after 24 hours...there was no wear on the motor after the race, blame porsche for the shitty tranny, lol
defprun 3 years ago
The "low for a rotary" rev limit of around 9000 rpm during the race apparently was so the car would keep to the fuel consumption formula that was in force at the time. It was also mentioned that if they let it rev to around 10,500ish (which engineers apparently said is no problem) power would have jumped from 700hp to around 900hp. Don't flame me for this, I am just passing on what I read in an article about the 787B once!
mafiand 3 years ago
The sound of it at redline sounds like an F-1 car...9000rpm during that race but it can peg 10, 500rpm...wonder what it sounds like up there!!!
defprun 3 years ago
8000rpm, with 9000rpm only needed "for emergencies". IOW he is shifting it at 8000rpm unless he needs to make up time.
izzmus 3 years ago
Awesome car. Pity the only way it could be beaten was by outlawing it.
Woodsy8686 3 years ago
that sounds awsome. mad mike from nz has put a similar 4 rota set up in a fd3s it sounds insane. search madbull
doindonuts 3 years ago
"madbull rx7" or "mad mike"
doindonuts 3 years ago
Simply an astonishing sound. 4-rotor N/A engine is sex to the ears.
DMRH69 3 years ago 5
i don't even want to help u u r retard
FeniXTheThird 3 years ago
Mazda 787B was not turbo charged car. It was 4 rotar rotary engine. It means, the engine was normal aspiration.
87834649 3 years ago 4
squeaky brakes lol love th car tho ;)
aidanhd 3 years ago
I HATE THAT DRIVER..I WISH I WAS HIM..
ELTRAVIEZIN 3 years ago
i can't understand what's the screeching sound... maybe the brakes?
heatever 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Was there a turbo? Sounds like it may be a wastegate/blowoff valve.
handsomebassman 3 years ago
idk maybe yes
heatever 3 years ago
Great Engine, 4 rotors, 2.6L, with a power of 700 bhp at 9000 rpm, vs Honda F1, 3.5L v12, 800Bhp at 14000 rpm.
This is an AMAZING engine!
m598lmr 3 years ago 4
Well, 10000rpm's must account for something, that's the F1 sound everybody hears.
The most beatiful sound ever in racing history.
makecba 3 years ago 2
the gearbox isnt slow, hes actually engaging the CLUTCH! REAL DRIVERS drive manuals
schooneroblack 3 years ago 4
shit! that overtake at 0:50
aidanhd 3 years ago
Haha i would be a bit scared if my brakes started making that noise when i was braking at 200mph+
Mikesding 3 years ago
i hope they re created this with furai. very lookin forward to it
shizzilez 3 years ago
Sound like a F1 !!
But I find the gearbox too slow...
yellowbird479 3 years ago
it was on 1989, the tech was not so advanced.
And the gearbox is also very long, due the high speed that they ca reach
franktheboy 3 years ago
I think he's just shifting slowly to preserve the gearbox over the course of the race.
vansoth 3 years ago 2
sounds simply amazing!!!!
PA28140 3 years ago 4
Am I the only one who thinks that the "4 rotor" sounds like a manlier F1 engine? I just love it!!
Maxpound 3 years ago
@ 2:46...was that Nissan's R390-LM he flew past??
gT3iD 3 years ago
Sounds like the 939
TBucket5 3 years ago
Nope thats deffinately the rotary of a 787
VR46YAMAHA 3 years ago
Ok cool
TBucket5 3 years ago
awesome this is circuit de la sarthe..
f1racer0125 3 years ago
the tranny sounds different tho.
skatingsamurai 3 years ago
THANKS,GREAT VIDEO
jimmcom 3 years ago
787b pretty much the sweetest car ever made
tommymonsternz 3 years ago
in one of the sport videos called havoc versions 1 , 2, or 3
can't remember exactly it had a shot of a le mans car coming into indianapolis and shifting out of 5 th into second instead of fourth needless to say it was the end of his race.
niikodas 3 years ago
No, that is a 787B. The factory Charge sponsored car had the famous orange and green livery. But Mazda also had white and blue versions of the car.
Sephiroth5300 3 years ago 3
I'd suggest that the car is not the 787b, but rather the 767b Tripple rotor from the '89 or '90 season. Colour of those cars were silver/blue detailing as apposed to the 787b's orange patchwork design.
RotaryEnergy 3 years ago
Sounds exactly like the 787b Listen to the 20b 3rotor, it sounds nothing like a 4rotor
Rosatii 3 years ago
Have to agree,was at every lemans from 1985 to 2003,the 4-rotor was just painfully loud,with the previous 3-rotor your ears bled(almost),Porsche=purred,Mercedes=rumbled,Jaguar=wailed,Mazda 4R=screamed,Mazda 3R=torture
panhardrod 3 years ago
is that the squeking of the brakes?
rv345 3 years ago
yes...carbon brakes squeak sometimes...
Jonathanowns 3 years ago
*won...not one, doh!
kiroc89 3 years ago
as for the car being banned for being "unfair" to the competition. That's ridiculous, it one one friggin race while other manufacturers such as Porsche dominated the 80s, wouldn't that be a considered "unfair?"
kiroc89 3 years ago
Kiroc89 they banned it because it was unfair in weight not by winning the race like porshe
aVYcanis 3 years ago
Yeah, exactly. Fast shifting tends to wear out the syncros and the gearbox in general. I know at that time they used to say brake at the 200 m board when they could really brake at 150 m, just to protect the brakes, among other things.
vansoth 3 years ago
Seems like a very sketchy car too, he's having to make an inordinate amount of steering corrections in the turns etc (compared to say that other vid of the 956 before the chicanes), so I'm sure they need to be a little more careful to last the whole race.
vansoth 3 years ago
yes, before the 1990 race. thusly they were used for the 1990 race.
saying otherwise would imply they came out after the 1990 race in time for the 1991 race.
n0rdicalex 3 years ago
this is great, ive dun this circuit about a thousand times in the 787B in GT4, its great watching a real life replay
TezzaMcJ 3 years ago
im a big fan of ur 787 vid collection! do u think u will be obtaining any more footage of a similar vein to this?
Stevieb83 3 years ago
dodgy, squeaky brakes, but insane, mad, bonkers, fast and race winning car.
Nice vid!
NuclearGanon 3 years ago
thanks wankel!
texeratexera 3 years ago
If you wanna feel this car, buy it on the game Gran Turismo 4 (playstation 2) and buy it! it's cheap, only 3.500.000 (3 millions and a half) I have one with 905hp (it's tunned) this car (in the game) has a superb time wear...u don't need many pit spots during a race.
Remember: IN THE GAME.
kynigh 4 years ago
Fucking chicanes!ok it's more secure but the spirit of the track is gone...
gorka222 4 years ago
So who's the lucky chap driving it? The only disadvantages i can think of the rotary engines is that they are very poor on emissions and use a lot of fuel, I dont think it should of been banned in 1991 due to a lower weight compared to the other cars, its disadvantage of using more fuel, and probably a couple more pitstops should of made it ok to continue fairly :(
Maxilicious 4 years ago
David Kennedy, Stefan Johansson or Maurizio Sandro Sala. By the way they were not banned as such from competing - the world sportscar racing rules simply outlawed anything that didn't use a 3.5L F1 engine. It was a change which had been on the cards since 1988, sadly :(
raceralexuk 4 years ago
this pistonless 4rotor can be compared to a V12.
i8nm3 4 years ago
Here's the thing Maxilicious, in 91 Le Mans cars ran to a fuel consumption formula. The superior fuel economy of the 787B compared to the Jag and Merc etc with 7.4L engines, allowed Mazda to run the car flat out for the full 24 hours. The Jags in particular had to back right off so they didn't run out of their allocated fuel stock. Yes, they suck fuel for their capacity, but are not as bad when comparing it to performance. The Mazda was 1000kg like all the other cars (Jag/Merc etc.).
mafiand 3 years ago
Those are the good old days when there's no chicane on the back straight. And Mazda did a good job on winning the Leman in front of the once all mighty Mercedes Benz C12? or C9?
koukiR32 4 years ago
C11
Si1070 4 years ago
the chicanes were introduced before the 1990 race.
n0rdicalex 4 years ago
Yes, did some researches. you are corrected. sorry about the comment above
koukiR32 4 years ago
amazing car for its day, funny to think that the shifting would be considered incredibly lethargic by todays standards. 4Rotor FTW!!!
crxt 4 years ago 2
Well I'm pretty sure he could shift faster, just trying to preserve the gearbox.
vansoth 4 years ago
this car is just amazing, the best race car so far. It revs like crazy and the straigh line speed is lightning fast.
bignud 4 years ago 2
video on this car it's actually a 787, because at the top of the car that says Mazdaspeed has the color blue.the other one has the same design, has the color on the top yellow and that was the other 787B.Remember they only raced with two 787B's And one 787.
deadmanCLR 4 years ago
91 the 787B only though and it won
Maverik6 4 years ago
What Do You Mean?
deadmanCLR 4 years ago
187? b
sh3lbot 4 years ago
mazdaspeed ftw!
veltpak6 4 years ago
The R390 was never really on the same level as the 787B, other group C, or LMP cars. The R390 had a few basic problems like the weight. The straight line speed and lap times could never compete with cars like the GT ONE and later the R8.
golfer0000001 4 years ago
I would like to know what car passed the 787 at the end of the video.
sdave101 4 years ago
think on of the Peugeot's
HHHeeeyy 4 years ago
Watch a visor
rokotyan81 4 years ago
goddamn its kinda depressin in the cockpit haha beautiful machine tho wish i owned it
indelible721 4 years ago