blaberyle: You big dork! We National Anarchists ( I'm black live in Africa) want to promote our own culture and heritage AGAINST NEW WORLD ORDER BULL CRAP, which is only for rich capitalists so they can KILL ALL CULTURE
( we are all the same= consumers) and replace it with coca cola, big mac and stupid fat Oprah spewing for dorks like you to gulp down while singing 'the internationale' with bush, Obama, wall street, multinational corporations and world bank....GO NATIONAL ANARCHISTS!
well in anarcho capitalism yes, you would be helping corporations. More left views however (anarcho communism mutualism, socialism, syndalicsm, etc.) work less towards competition but rather coorporation. The work place is worker owned rather than managed. The concept of a guy in new york smoking a cigar sending orders to a manager in Las Angeles to fire somebody would no longer exist. Everything is done on a local level therefore, the corporate elite fall.
I'm all for anarchist/minachist except one point. In this money-crazed, immoral world of big corporations, Wouldn't it be rather helping for them rather than disavowing them?
It would simply be seized from the individual by the community. Property such as furniture, automobiles, etc. would not be seized. Factors of production in which individuals use to exploit the work of others would be such as factories, land, machinery used in factories, materials used to make finished products etc. would be seized. If people wanted to fight this then they would be overwhelmed by the vast majority since very few are in possesion of these factors of production (the very rich.)
So then a minority should have the rights to factors of production enabling them to exploit the majority? A private enterprise is a tyranny in itself in which very few benefit and the vast majority get screwed.
It is not tyranny it's by solidarity and cooperation and there's no profit involved but for the benefit of all,no cohersion or intimidation that's the property of capitalism and Bolshevism.
@Freemarketeer81 Unfortunately, you're failing to grasp the fact that communities ( levels and networks of association ) would be entirely voluntary in an anarchist society. Does this mean that community won't still be in danger of exerting undue authority and power over individuals? No, but in advocating anarchism you're advocating the conscious effort towards vigilance against these possibilities, and the solidarity with human brothers who choose different paths than that of the community.
In an anarchist society possession and use would decide who manages the Means of production, land, buildings, Etc. The workers would self-manage their workplace, the community members the community, Etc. While under Capitalism The Means of production is manged by legal title and this what allows corporations to monopolize. If one can figure out a way to monopolize control over essential societal needs and defend this monopoly on control then one can basically have society by the you know whats.
I'm not a republican, what the crap are you on about?
I'm trying to have a crack at the racism of the "national anarchists" aka folk and faith.
They don't understand because they are fascist morons, that barricading yourself behind race in a supposedly free society.
It's just that in this society, they're all full of shit, and that in the new world they'll still all be full of shit because they are stubborn fascists.
If there were no property and everyone had access to everything they needed in plenty, what need would there be to trade? If you have something that another doesn't and they need it at that time, and you could just get more later on, would you not share it and you could both get more later?
People have always traded. I have a little extra bread, you have an extra fur, we trade. Trading is an inherently human characteristic, one you could not erase, without getting rid of us altogether. Hoarding and collecting is something all of us do, the natural extension is trade.
Yeah, that form of trade of you have something i need, i have something you need, is the same as sharing, so i suppose yes there would still be "trade" it just wouldn't work on a market system like it does now with values and currency and middlemen.
The term for it us voluntary/free exchange, and mutual aid comes into it aswell.
Yes, but haring deals with distribution, while trade deals in exchange. I am under no obligation to share, rather I could *give* a good to someone I felt in need, but am not required to do so. The two terms are not interchangeable.
Anarchism is inherently anti-capitalist and anti-nationalist. Anarchism has been a leading force in pointing out that nationalism, rainforest destruction, slavery, pollution, capitalist markets disguised as "trade", all of these things are tyrannies that create the need for the public and private state, and bring misery to humanity.
The lines drawn between races aren't placed there by governments, but rather by nature. Racial seperation is a natural part of human instinct and is hard wired into each of us through evolution. Of course, if one chooses to be a racial seperatist or not should be totally up to the individual and not government. Government is not required in order to keep races seperate, just the natural free will of the individual is all that is required for racial seperation to work.
Wow! There exists real anarchists out there on Youtube.. Who woulda thought? Exactly! Anarchists can be whatever they wish to be within their community. If one wished to form a society of purple people eaters for utopian awareness they have that right to separate and form such a community to their liking. There is nothing un-anarchistic about such an idea. Good on you sir!
@AnarchoNationalist It's painful, really to even try to grasp your screen name, let alone your implied philosophy. Let's see if I can try something like it.... FreemarketSocialist.....
Yea, I think that about sums it up. The idea that social separation based on race is hardwired into us is absolutely absurd, and you cannot seriously call yourself an anarchist at all. Would this mean that class is hard wired as well? I see no difference between the claims.
There is nothing within An-Archism that would prohibit folks voluntarily separating themselves from others that they don't feel share their vision for how a community ought to be formed. Just as vegetarians could separate from animal eaters, so too could blacks or whites separate from others, and then even further into cultures and religious views within such a community. There is nothing in an-archism anti any of this.
Racism as you're talking about it become an inherently oppressive structure. Especially since you back this up with no facts, and are relying on your bullshitting capabilities alone.
Why even see race? skin colour means nothing.
Neo-nazi's pretending to stand for anarchist, please die soon.
Anarchism is the most powerful anti-racist philosophy there is, in it's natural form. Black people have gained immensely from mutual aid, direct action, general strikes, cooperative behavior, and so on. Let's hope anarchism spreads and racism and racialist crazies are pushed back to their lairs of cruelty and madness.
I've read Max Stirner and can say that if his ideas were put in to practice there would be no money. Money and the market is something impersonal. It is a spook. The subsistance that stirner advocated is as decentralized as it gets. Primitive society probably came the closest to the ideas expressed in the ego and its own.
The idea that egoism and altruism are opposites and not simply two aspects of human nature has always been a false idea spread by capitalists. Anarchism/libertarian socialism has always been about the egoism, the self-love, the individualism of the working class person.
For those who have read Max Stirner, this is obvious, as "I love because it is natural for me." But, I find it quite vulgar to blame the capitalists for the false though widespread belief. Anarchism cares for both of them, insofar they see that conscious (libertarian) egoism logically leads to altruism.
Cherokee county is passing a law that you cannot say FELIZ NAVIDAD,because you will be breaking the law, No one is free when others are oppressed...GA
Sounds like typical insane government opression. Where did you read or hear about that law? I'd like to take a closer look at it and spread the word around. Any ideas about what should be done about it? A lobbyist group on this could be good I think.
I'm suggesting that as long as you base a society on money, wealth will inevitably be centralized. If you implemented a system of "market anarchy" right now, institutions like Halliburton or Wal Mart would easily take ownership of everything and have unchecked power to crush whomever got in their way.
Money is competence; whatever competence you might require, will become money. Of course we must reject VALUTA, that is the american dollar etc. Do you understand what fascism is at all? It is not money. It is alienation of autonomy, and/or Keynesian fiscal policy.
The idea that money is fine, but Keynesian is bad, is a false idea spread by capitalists though. The idea that anarchist words and ideas could be channeled into destroying social programs funded by taxes but NOT replace them with worker controlled mutual aid societies is just capitalism without regulation and Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" all over again.
No, market anarchy is not the only solution. And what do you mean by "market anarchy?" Do you mean "anarcho"-capitalism? For if you do, you must realize that this is not a real form of anarchism. Yes, there are forms of anarchism (mutualism, mostly) that promote money, but they abolish usury and profit. There is no one solution to anarchism.
Anarcho-capitalism, for me, is the most true, non-primitivist, form of Anarchy. When we left nature to pursue greater civilization, we left original anarchist utopia. Some return to primitivism, but in society as we know it, capitalism - true capitalism relies on the exact same principles that liberty and freedom encompass. It is driven for people, by people, providing unto others, taking as much or as little as needed to continue functioning.
anarcho capitalism is bullshit, sorry. Oh, you must mean neo-liberalism, huh? You guys believe in free enterprize and that it's ok to cut down all the rain fore$ts in the name of profit because it's your definition of "freedom". Internationalism, not globalization!
In an Anarchistic society rain forests are not necessarily safe, in that there are no rules governing them, only people to defend them. Freedom is the freedom to cut down rain forests, and also the freedom to defend them; but they are not inherently safe one way or the other. Economic freedom and personal freedom go hand in hand. Anyone should have the ability to earn, or not earn as they chose. However, with capitalism you gain technology and progress.
capitalism is inherantly authoritarian. Capitalism created the need for the state, with its private property that needs to be protected by a private or public state, it's jails, it's armies, it's police, it's prisons. Capitalism without government is even worse than capitalism with government to keep it from destroying the poor and the planet itself.
Not inherently authoritarian. The state existed long before capitalism, in fact, states were initially against capitalism. You need to learn your history. Only after realizing that capitalism can be manipulated by government, did you have acceptance. The last bit is classic state propaganda. Capitalism offers the best ability for poor to move up. The environment, poor, and general well being is in everyone's self-interest.
if "liberal" (economist-conservatives) were just a little smarter... if they follow their own demonstration just a few inches further, they would be anarchists :)
if economist-conservatives follow their "own demonstration" we end up with economic fascism.. capitalism with no way to escape from it, no way to regulate it, no way to save us from being destroyed by it, since they would have the monopoly of force, and their fantasy of a capitalism that nobody can say "no" to would crush all of humanity under it's private state defense-force jackboots.
No, why? Anarchists are not altruist by instinct. Many are, in fact, and that including my self, egotistic individuals. What attracts me to anarchy, ignoring my philosophical and economical background, is that the community will (should?) let me alone if that is what I desire.
Hm. Okay. When you say "egoistic indivduals", do you mean that you are individualistic? Egoistic sounds negative to me. What attracted me to anarchism is the view that the individual needs is equally important as the collective needs of oneself and others. Co-operation without reducing the individual. I don't think there has to be a conflict in that phiosophy. But maybe we mean the same thing while expressing it in different words?
Egotism, that is self-verification, is an inevitable aspect of anarchism. I do not divide between collective and individual interest. There are only individuals, as groups are just practical linguistic concepts. Deploying altruism under the guise of "the equal interest of others," we forget that this quickly becomes the authoritarian mindset that anarchism tries to abolish. Let there be negotation; let there be weighing of advantages, and we will abolish all slavery.
@tzontzon Force alone maintains the state, force alone dethrones it.
Pennoid 1 year ago
@blaberyle This comment is shit.
Pennoid 1 year ago
blaberyle: You big dork! We National Anarchists ( I'm black live in Africa) want to promote our own culture and heritage AGAINST NEW WORLD ORDER BULL CRAP, which is only for rich capitalists so they can KILL ALL CULTURE
( we are all the same= consumers) and replace it with coca cola, big mac and stupid fat Oprah spewing for dorks like you to gulp down while singing 'the internationale' with bush, Obama, wall street, multinational corporations and world bank....GO NATIONAL ANARCHISTS!
fatty099 1 year ago 2
@fatty099 what does the internationale have to do with your claims? It's a great hymn of slavery abolishment.
klasomentas 1 year ago
I love the film that this is from, The Free Voice of Labour, about the Freie Arbeiter Stimme, the Yiddish anarchist workers' newspaper.
The speaker, Paul Avrich, wrote a lot of books about anarchists and the anarchist movements in the US and Russia - all are worth reading.
barrymarshall 2 years ago
well in anarcho capitalism yes, you would be helping corporations. More left views however (anarcho communism mutualism, socialism, syndalicsm, etc.) work less towards competition but rather coorporation. The work place is worker owned rather than managed. The concept of a guy in new york smoking a cigar sending orders to a manager in Las Angeles to fire somebody would no longer exist. Everything is done on a local level therefore, the corporate elite fall.
holyhandgrenade3 2 years ago 4
I'm all for anarchist/minachist except one point. In this money-crazed, immoral world of big corporations, Wouldn't it be rather helping for them rather than disavowing them?
mrbusy 3 years ago
Well no actually, because in an anarchist society the profit system would be abolished.
Billcot1 3 years ago 14
How would that be done? What if a lot of the people wants to retain the right to their property?
ContraWagner 2 years ago
It would simply be seized from the individual by the community. Property such as furniture, automobiles, etc. would not be seized. Factors of production in which individuals use to exploit the work of others would be such as factories, land, machinery used in factories, materials used to make finished products etc. would be seized. If people wanted to fight this then they would be overwhelmed by the vast majority since very few are in possesion of these factors of production (the very rich.)
Billcot1 2 years ago
Then the tyranny of the community operates under the same coercive mechanism as the state.
Freemarketeer81 2 years ago
So then a minority should have the rights to factors of production enabling them to exploit the majority? A private enterprise is a tyranny in itself in which very few benefit and the vast majority get screwed.
Billcot1 2 years ago
It is not tyranny it's by solidarity and cooperation and there's no profit involved but for the benefit of all,no cohersion or intimidation that's the property of capitalism and Bolshevism.
sarsanch 2 years ago
@Freemarketeer81 Unfortunately, you're failing to grasp the fact that communities ( levels and networks of association ) would be entirely voluntary in an anarchist society. Does this mean that community won't still be in danger of exerting undue authority and power over individuals? No, but in advocating anarchism you're advocating the conscious effort towards vigilance against these possibilities, and the solidarity with human brothers who choose different paths than that of the community.
Pennoid 1 year ago
@Billcot1
Pfft, year right.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
In an anarchist society possession and use would decide who manages the Means of production, land, buildings, Etc. The workers would self-manage their workplace, the community members the community, Etc. While under Capitalism The Means of production is manged by legal title and this what allows corporations to monopolize. If one can figure out a way to monopolize control over essential societal needs and defend this monopoly on control then one can basically have society by the you know whats.
anarcentric 3 years ago 2
I think the point is that you societies change from capitalism to syndicalism along with the end of the state.
fluorogoat 2 years ago
I'm not a republican, what the crap are you on about?
I'm trying to have a crack at the racism of the "national anarchists" aka folk and faith.
They don't understand because they are fascist morons, that barricading yourself behind race in a supposedly free society.
It's just that in this society, they're all full of shit, and that in the new world they'll still all be full of shit because they are stubborn fascists.
If you can counter that please do.
x
Gabb0123 4 years ago
If there were no property and everyone had access to everything they needed in plenty, what need would there be to trade? If you have something that another doesn't and they need it at that time, and you could just get more later on, would you not share it and you could both get more later?
Gabb0123 4 years ago
People have always traded. I have a little extra bread, you have an extra fur, we trade. Trading is an inherently human characteristic, one you could not erase, without getting rid of us altogether. Hoarding and collecting is something all of us do, the natural extension is trade.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Yeah, that form of trade of you have something i need, i have something you need, is the same as sharing, so i suppose yes there would still be "trade" it just wouldn't work on a market system like it does now with values and currency and middlemen.
The term for it us voluntary/free exchange, and mutual aid comes into it aswell.
Gabb0123 4 years ago
Yes, but haring deals with distribution, while trade deals in exchange. I am under no obligation to share, rather I could *give* a good to someone I felt in need, but am not required to do so. The two terms are not interchangeable.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
This is Paul Avrich (in the video).
IntelligentHoodlum 4 years ago
Anarchism is inherently anti-capitalist and anti-nationalist. Anarchism has been a leading force in pointing out that nationalism, rainforest destruction, slavery, pollution, capitalist markets disguised as "trade", all of these things are tyrannies that create the need for the public and private state, and bring misery to humanity.
roylopear 4 years ago 5
The lines drawn between races aren't placed there by governments, but rather by nature. Racial seperation is a natural part of human instinct and is hard wired into each of us through evolution. Of course, if one chooses to be a racial seperatist or not should be totally up to the individual and not government. Government is not required in order to keep races seperate, just the natural free will of the individual is all that is required for racial seperation to work.
AnarchoNationalist 4 years ago
That is so dumb. In nature there are no lines drawn between races except geographically!
Racial separation IS NOT hardwired into us through evolution. We're all the same, we just all evolved to look at little different.
Take your racist propaganda back to your hole and die you bastards.
Gabb0123 4 years ago
Wow! There exists real anarchists out there on Youtube.. Who woulda thought? Exactly! Anarchists can be whatever they wish to be within their community. If one wished to form a society of purple people eaters for utopian awareness they have that right to separate and form such a community to their liking. There is nothing un-anarchistic about such an idea. Good on you sir!
folkandfaith 4 years ago
@AnarchoNationalist It's painful, really to even try to grasp your screen name, let alone your implied philosophy. Let's see if I can try something like it.... FreemarketSocialist.....
Yea, I think that about sums it up. The idea that social separation based on race is hardwired into us is absolutely absurd, and you cannot seriously call yourself an anarchist at all. Would this mean that class is hard wired as well? I see no difference between the claims.
Pennoid 1 year ago
National Anarchism.. Folk And Faith Dot Com
There is nothing within An-Archism that would prohibit folks voluntarily separating themselves from others that they don't feel share their vision for how a community ought to be formed. Just as vegetarians could separate from animal eaters, so too could blacks or whites separate from others, and then even further into cultures and religious views within such a community. There is nothing in an-archism anti any of this.
folkandfaith 4 years ago
Racism as you're talking about it become an inherently oppressive structure. Especially since you back this up with no facts, and are relying on your bullshitting capabilities alone.
Why even see race? skin colour means nothing.
Neo-nazi's pretending to stand for anarchist, please die soon.
Gabb0123 4 years ago
Exactly@!
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
Anarchism is the most powerful anti-racist philosophy there is, in it's natural form. Black people have gained immensely from mutual aid, direct action, general strikes, cooperative behavior, and so on. Let's hope anarchism spreads and racism and racialist crazies are pushed back to their lairs of cruelty and madness.
roylopear 4 years ago
this video featured on ANARCHY dash TV dot COM
ANARCHYdashTVdotCOM 4 years ago
cool video , i'm going to feature this on anarchy dash tv dot com
fiftycaliberfistfuck 4 years ago
I've read Max Stirner and can say that if his ideas were put in to practice there would be no money. Money and the market is something impersonal. It is a spook. The subsistance that stirner advocated is as decentralized as it gets. Primitive society probably came the closest to the ideas expressed in the ego and its own.
Vice81 5 years ago
The idea that egoism and altruism are opposites and not simply two aspects of human nature has always been a false idea spread by capitalists. Anarchism/libertarian socialism has always been about the egoism, the self-love, the individualism of the working class person.
roylopear 5 years ago
For those who have read Max Stirner, this is obvious, as "I love because it is natural for me." But, I find it quite vulgar to blame the capitalists for the false though widespread belief. Anarchism cares for both of them, insofar they see that conscious (libertarian) egoism logically leads to altruism.
emilhenry 5 years ago
Anarchists want world to be beautiful to everybody. It's not about egoism! No oppression, no war, no violence.
hellpartyboy2008 4 years ago 3
Cherokee county is passing a law that you cannot say FELIZ NAVIDAD,because you will be breaking the law, No one is free when others are oppressed...GA
whatdafok 5 years ago
Sounds like typical insane government opression. Where did you read or hear about that law? I'd like to take a closer look at it and spread the word around. Any ideas about what should be done about it? A lobbyist group on this could be good I think.
Namellak 5 years ago
Market anarchy is the only solution
realworldplayer 5 years ago
Either that or capitalist fascism, right?
myroncope 5 years ago
Are you suggesting that the market is a fascist institution?
emilhenry 5 years ago
I'm suggesting that as long as you base a society on money, wealth will inevitably be centralized. If you implemented a system of "market anarchy" right now, institutions like Halliburton or Wal Mart would easily take ownership of everything and have unchecked power to crush whomever got in their way.
myroncope 5 years ago
Money is competence; whatever competence you might require, will become money. Of course we must reject VALUTA, that is the american dollar etc. Do you understand what fascism is at all? It is not money. It is alienation of autonomy, and/or Keynesian fiscal policy.
emilhenry 5 years ago
The idea that money is fine, but Keynesian is bad, is a false idea spread by capitalists though. The idea that anarchist words and ideas could be channeled into destroying social programs funded by taxes but NOT replace them with worker controlled mutual aid societies is just capitalism without regulation and Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" all over again.
roylopear 4 years ago 4
No, market anarchy is not the only solution. And what do you mean by "market anarchy?" Do you mean "anarcho"-capitalism? For if you do, you must realize that this is not a real form of anarchism. Yes, there are forms of anarchism (mutualism, mostly) that promote money, but they abolish usury and profit. There is no one solution to anarchism.
PointsOfAuthority 4 years ago 2
Anarcho-capitalism, for me, is the most true, non-primitivist, form of Anarchy. When we left nature to pursue greater civilization, we left original anarchist utopia. Some return to primitivism, but in society as we know it, capitalism - true capitalism relies on the exact same principles that liberty and freedom encompass. It is driven for people, by people, providing unto others, taking as much or as little as needed to continue functioning.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
anarcho capitalism is bullshit, sorry. Oh, you must mean neo-liberalism, huh? You guys believe in free enterprize and that it's ok to cut down all the rain fore$ts in the name of profit because it's your definition of "freedom". Internationalism, not globalization!
hellpartyboy2008 4 years ago
In an Anarchistic society rain forests are not necessarily safe, in that there are no rules governing them, only people to defend them. Freedom is the freedom to cut down rain forests, and also the freedom to defend them; but they are not inherently safe one way or the other. Economic freedom and personal freedom go hand in hand. Anyone should have the ability to earn, or not earn as they chose. However, with capitalism you gain technology and progress.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
My good maddam or sir, may i suggest you a book?
The Conquest of Bread.
It's really good and touches on everything you just said.
Gabb0123 4 years ago
Thanks, for the recommendation!
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
capitalism is inherantly authoritarian. Capitalism created the need for the state, with its private property that needs to be protected by a private or public state, it's jails, it's armies, it's police, it's prisons. Capitalism without government is even worse than capitalism with government to keep it from destroying the poor and the planet itself.
roylopear 4 years ago
Not inherently authoritarian. The state existed long before capitalism, in fact, states were initially against capitalism. You need to learn your history. Only after realizing that capitalism can be manipulated by government, did you have acceptance. The last bit is classic state propaganda. Capitalism offers the best ability for poor to move up. The environment, poor, and general well being is in everyone's self-interest.
JustJoelyouassclown 4 years ago
And which are you?
RadzikMarat 5 years ago
who is this chap?
taxamo 5 years ago
I encourage all viewers of this video to read emma goldman!
bradattack 5 years ago
Absolutely
propagandabydeed 5 years ago
I agree. But shouldn't we extend the plan to love, brotherhood and sisterhood as well? Seems like the right thing to do, don't you agree? :)
Namellak 5 years ago
exactly.
if "liberal" (economist-conservatives) were just a little smarter... if they follow their own demonstration just a few inches further, they would be anarchists :)
lejob 5 years ago
Hmm...Interesting...How much is "a few inches further" then? :)
Namellak 5 years ago
if economist-conservatives follow their "own demonstration" we end up with economic fascism.. capitalism with no way to escape from it, no way to regulate it, no way to save us from being destroyed by it, since they would have the monopoly of force, and their fantasy of a capitalism that nobody can say "no" to would crush all of humanity under it's private state defense-force jackboots.
roylopear 4 years ago
No, why? Anarchists are not altruist by instinct. Many are, in fact, and that including my self, egotistic individuals. What attracts me to anarchy, ignoring my philosophical and economical background, is that the community will (should?) let me alone if that is what I desire.
emilhenry 5 years ago
Hm. Okay. When you say "egoistic indivduals", do you mean that you are individualistic? Egoistic sounds negative to me. What attracted me to anarchism is the view that the individual needs is equally important as the collective needs of oneself and others. Co-operation without reducing the individual. I don't think there has to be a conflict in that phiosophy. But maybe we mean the same thing while expressing it in different words?
Namellak 5 years ago
Egotism, that is self-verification, is an inevitable aspect of anarchism. I do not divide between collective and individual interest. There are only individuals, as groups are just practical linguistic concepts. Deploying altruism under the guise of "the equal interest of others," we forget that this quickly becomes the authoritarian mindset that anarchism tries to abolish. Let there be negotation; let there be weighing of advantages, and we will abolish all slavery.
emilhenry 5 years ago
love and brotherhood instead of hatred and war sounds like the plan to get in to action. what happened?
and who was that guy?
eligarf 5 years ago
word
KamratMattis 5 years ago