I need to show this video to my uncle. I have been trying to tell him for YEARS now that pirating is just wrong, but he just won't listen. He's fairly well off, he's just MASSIVELY cheap.
So lets say that i brought a game (fable the lost chapter) back in 2007 or 2008 and over the course of the years one of the four disks got destroyed so later in 2011 i pirated it on Piratebay, you know so i could play it again.
Very good points! I tried explaining this to my friend but he didn't get it, Oh well. Anyway, completely unrelated, I can find you harvest moon livestream videos on livestream, where are they?!
piracy will never be an isuue just don't ever get caught,,,the real issue is people playing computer games all alone when they could just buy a football and go outside and hang out with friends get some fresh air and meet new people and be apart of the world and enjoy life!
@gypseetim You make it sound like everyone loves football and people who go on the computer never go outside or talk to anyone they know in real life.
Part 6. When the vinel record came out, it is to show the copyright holders that hey, I like your song, and I want to listen to it without going to your concert. Are people just gonna wait indefinitely for the copyright holders to enter the market? No. They are gonna get the first vinel that came out which are usually the pirates.
Part 5. Piracy have been rampant since the invention of the printing press. Piracy is not a crime per say, but it's the human response when there is a hole in the market where the original copyright owners has not or has no interest to be in which is caused by the advancement of technology.
Part 4. Fast forward a few years came the PC and the software and hardware to burn your own CD. Again MPAA and RIAA went berserk asking the government to make new laws. Sony went further to install viruses to anyone who attempt to rip their CDs.
Then came P2P sharing and recently high speed cloud sharing.
Part 3. Fast forward a few more years, came the video tape recorder. The MPAA and Hollywood went apeshit asking the US government to ban the VCR to hit the market. Their representative went so far to compare VCR to Hollywood is to the Boston Strangler to a defenseless woman at home.
Part 2. When the first vianel records came out, many singers were in an uproar saying that this horrible black object is stealing their voices and taking their jobs.
Fast forward a few years, came the cassette tape recorders. Again uproar saying people can pirate the radio by taping their favourite songs instead of listening to them on the radio. Google "hometaping is killing music"
Part 1. Personally I believe that piracy is not a moral or criminal problem. It's actually the clash between 2 industries which is the entertainment industry and the technology industry.
We need to take a look back into history over the past 100 years to see that really nothing has changed. It is the same thing happening over and over again.
I've been in many situations where I simply didn't have the money to buy a game that I wanted, and even though I knew I could get it for free, I went with moral choice that it wasn't the right thing to do. I wasn't ignorant despite my situation. I could've pirated, but I didn't. This is what Toegoff was trying to explain, but a lot of people seemed to get turned off by it. Self Discipline and responsible choice, simply.
Toe u make the most seance out of all all of the you tube people out there. I LOVE your opinions keep up the good work and don't listen to the bullshit out there :D
In the words of the president of Valve, Piracy is a customer service problem. People tend to use whatever option is easiest and don't have moral qualms about paying for the best service they can get.
I don't think SOPA is really about stopping piracy. Sure they could shut down a few sites (although they managed to shut down MegaUpload without SOPA) but the pirates will always just make new sites or file sharing methods.) SOPA is far more effective at giving corporations leverage to threaten legitimate sites like YouTube and forcing them to censor us than it is at stopping piracy.
if i cant afford a game and i want to play it,guess what,im going to play it. i dont give a shit what the government says,ill still play them.ill pirate if i need to
@Tresskzilla Me thinks you don't understand the power of the government, or how little control over the internet you have :P A couple courses in networking could teach you a lot. This is truly the problem with this 'entitled childish' mindset. You believe you earn and deserve something simply because 'I want I want I want' Damn the people who get screwed over by you. It's truly depressing to see people so pathetic they care more about personal greed above all else.
i know very well what the government is capable of but as i said,i dont give a shit what they do,if i cant afford it and want to play it,then im going to play it.
@Tresskzilla So you agree with me that you are little more than a spoiled brat who thinks he is entitled to whatever he wants because he simply wants it.
All I can hope is that one day you gain a bit of maturity and realize that everything has a price. Always fun to find someone who has the mindset of a 3 year old though :) You've been most entertaining
"most entertaining"? all you care about is getting paid from youtube uploads and posts,even as i write this,im paying you. so who are you call someone else selfish or greedy?
@Tresskzilla You are paying me? And all this time I thought google was writing my checks. I humbly thank you. No Tresskzilla...you are not paying me. You are going to my videos for free entertainment and Google is paying me. You can easily close any ad that you like. And I'm not making much money from ad :)
@Toegoff The whole reason I pirate is because of poverty, I don't have the money that I need to play these games, listen to this music, in general pass the time. I am looking for a job, and everyone else in my family is in very bad standing right now.
Besides, Im Canadian. So the US Government, can go fuck there rich asses with a retractable baton.
@Gmod1001 The whole reason you pirate is because you don't want to pay for a game that YOU want. There are plenty of open source, freeware, and shareware games out there that are amazing. There are plenty of games that are $5 and below. And what does the US Government have to do with piracy? I don't think anyone is pirating anything from the US Gov...
@Toegoff For one, I can not stand playing most freeware games, not to mention that I don't have $5 typically to spend on that. I mentioned the US Government due to things like how they extradited a UK Colledge student to the US for crimes that are illegal in the US, and NOT the UK. And thanks to Steven Harper, in theory they could do the same to someone like me.
@Gmod1001 If you do not have $5, what about $2.50 or $3? GOG.com and Steam (if you use Steam .... which I don't) regularly have sales that put their prices in that price range. GOG, in fact, has sales every weekend and almost every Wednesday. Make a wishlist there and then wait for the titles you want to go on sale. If you eat fast food, buy a bag of m&ms, or buy a 12pk of soda even once a month, you can just as easily use that money on games. They are older titles, but are no less fun.
@photographerleia Also it should be mentioned Gmod, that if you do not even have $3.00 a month, you at least have $1 or 50 cents. Designate a jar for collecting loose change, and purposefully place a dollar (when you have it) in that jar. If you only use then jar for gaming, then when big sales come around you can stock up on the games you want with the money you have saved. Just because you do not have the money you need *right now* to buy the game doesn't mean that you can't plan ahead.
@Gmod1001 Not having the money, is never an excuse. Even when money is tight, most people are still spending some amount of discretionary income per month, even if that is just five or ten dollars. Self-control, planning, and prioritizing are key. For instance, I would have never been able to purchase Skyrim day of (which barely runs on my comp btw) had I waited until the day it came out. But, since I really wanted it, I saved up money over eight months (~$7.50/mo) & was able to afford it.
Piracy is simply stealing, end of, its no more complicated than that. Here in the UK people claim thousands of pounds a year that they aren't entitled to simply because they can and they blame the government for not helping them to find jobs. Find a job yourself you lazy bastards and if you can't afford games then save up. I think alot of people lack the guidance on whats right and wrong....
When I order food at a restaurant....if my food and service sucks I send it back for a full refund. I see both of these as the same thing. Going to a restaurant is a luxury. I spend 10 times the amount the food costs to get good service and really good food that I could not make myself. I expect the same out of my video games. So when I download something, if it's horrible I send it back and do not buy it. If it's good, I pay.
On a side note. As a customer you are entitled to a product that is actually worth the price. And lets face the ugly fact here. Most games released these days is not. Not saying it excuses pirating, but if developers and publishers would focus more on making their games off a good quality you'd reduce another chunk off that piracy loss. And the only way as a customer you can affect what developers/publishers do is with your wallet.
@Terwox11 No. Your are NOT entitled to a fair price. You are entitled to purchase the game at what the vendor sets. You run yourself into a catch 22. Publishers and developers can just say, "Well when people stop pirating our games, we'll spend more time on quality." As I said, if you are unhappy with the price of a game, do not purchase it or wait until that price sinks. It is not up to you to decide what is a fair price for everyone. 'Fair price' is what is in your head.
@Tresskzilla because sopa is proposed because of you and sopa doesn't only stop piracy but it closes several sites, if you kep like that resisting to sopa is harder
@Tresskzilla what? I think I get your question, but it makes little sense in how it is worded. When you pirate, you are part of a collective of people who pirate. Intellectual copyright holders get annoyed that you are getting their stuff for free. They complain to the government. The government goes, hmm, we need to crack down on regulation. SOPA! So when you pirate, you in essence tempt the government to force their hand to protect an industry.
@Toegoff Actually, you are entitled to the product being worth the price as a customer. There are several laws in several countries that explains that in greater detail than I can provide. Most notably in the form off quality assurance, which is exactly what I meant in this case. Lets take sword of the stars 2 as an example. The game came out at full retail price in a state more befitting an alpha build than a release. A game absolutely not worth the full retail price.
@Terwox11 No you aren't 'entitled' to it. You'd like, but especially something as subjective as entertainment, you are not entitled to any price. You're entitled to QA in things like a car (Lemon Laws) or a Home...but certainly not a video game. If you don't like it, you return it...simple as that. Entertainment is too subjective. You are entitled to the price the vendor sets...nothing else.
@Toegoff Well, we just have to agree to disagree then. But quite frankly if you feel that the people unfortunate enough to have bought sword off the stars 2 on release for full retail price in its alpha state (which they did not know until they had already boought the game coz the publisher hid the fact) are not entitled to a game that works. Then I don't understand you at all.
@Toegoff Oh and one more thing, about returning the game. Digital games you have no such rights. Same goes for physical copies off games. At least in my country. Although most shops that sells physical copies will, if you are polite and they care about their customers, allow you to swap a game you want to return for another product(s) off equal value.
Can't remember who said this, think it was one off the guys over at steam/valve. "Piracy is a service problem, provide a better service and less people will pirate." And considering steam, gog, impulse and similar sites/services. I agree that providing a better service can reduce pirating.
The only two reasons where pirating is OK is when the developer will not make any money on the title or if its impossible to buy the game in the area you live in due to the game not shipping in your country or being banned. Other than that its wrong. However having said that we will never be able to stop pirating. There will always be people who just want shit for free.
this was not a very thought out argument against piracy. i love your videos toe but the bottom line on piracy is that if your dling a game because you cant afford it,guess what,you CANT afford it. how your going to sit there and say that people cant afford the games they dl is bullshit then im sorry but your argument is bullshit. if they cant afford it,they just simply cant afford it,no need to get technical or intellectual about it. people pirate because they have to not because they want to.
@Tresskzilla Wait...HAVE to? We are talking video games here right? Entertainment...things that you do that your survival isn't based off of? If they can't afford it they can: wait until they've earned the money to buy it (and more than likely the price will go down on the game too). If we are talking stealing food to survive, that's a different moral argument. This is stealing intellectual property because you feel entitled to have something you don't deserve.
@Toegoff i would just like to point out as well that there are hundreds and hundreds of free games that cost nothing to play many of them quite fun. TF2 for instance. Great game thats free and enjoyable. So if people are that desperate can play many free games like i did until i saved money to buy a decent rig and games. p.s i agree with pirating old games that can no longer be bought except on the internet and which the original innovatory no longer get money for. (Sorry for the poor wording.)
food is an aid to survive but the same could be said for food. "sorry we know your hungry but come back when you have more money" yeah... no thanks. ill pirate when i feel its necessary.
@Tresskzilla Food - Needed for survival. Video games - wanted to cure boredom. See the difference? No one has ever died of boredom to my knowledge. Starving to death is a horrible fate and truly tragic...oh no, you can't afford that new video game you want - that is clearly on the same level as starvation. It is people such as yourself that are the true cause of SOPA. Show self control so that you don't ruin it for the rest of us please :)
@Toegoff i brought star wars battlefront 2 on steam.the game did not worked and lusca arts customer helper did not helped too much.had i pirated it i would not had brought it and would not wasted money.and BTW if you are not going to buy a game then you are not damaging anyone be pirating BTW the creators of fable agree with me on this point
@Toegoff oh yeah BTW i amost forgot it bullshit that you buy a game yet you cannot be considerated a owner of it copyrights for example:star wars galaxy a star wars MMO pay to play yet it was closed down however made a long time subscribe and ahd it curted down to less than half of the play time and recived no even 1% of they money back and also lets not forget matrix online:the same thing happened to it
@Tresskzilla Video games are a luxury not a necessity, you do not "have to" buy a game. When I was younger I never got video games unless I payed for them myself or as a present and I rarely got new games and consoles when they first released and played on my regular xbox for two years after the 360 came out. If you want something you shouldn't steal it you should set money aside and save up for it, it shows support to the people who made the awesome game your playing so they can make more.
I had that problem with Mass Effect 2, I LOVED the first one and I just had to play ME2.
Only problem was that I couldn't pay for it. So I had to wait 6 MONTHS before I could buy it, meanwhile hearing all the great stories of people who played that game.
But when I got the game I went crazy and I loved it almost as much as my girlfriend (maybe even more haha).
That's one big reason for me not to pirate games, I just can't enjoy games that I don't deserve.
@AstralArchon the game went into creation i have no idea when ... and then it was announced that sw kotor 3 is coming out, but it was shut down and later they started working on it again
Toegoff you should do a video about acta fucking americans have been passing it under the radar this will destroy the internet and nothing on your computer will be private anymore I emplore you to do a video on acta this is about more than games man its about invasion of our human rights
@TheFoxyDemon Omg this fucking guy <_<........ Japan proposed the idea and soon the U.S. ran with it after that, they pressed for it to be passed as law in the UNITED NATIONS MEET. Only a few countries are part of it right now however Australia, Canada and the European Union it English verison was only finished LAST YEAR. Do some research before you start bashing americans bro.
@Toegoff yeah i know it does sound selfish but why do i need to wait for something when i can get it in few hours ? And i'v been waiting for TOR for over 3 years and some ppl even more, not since it came out but since it was announced ... the game was announced like 10 years ago if i'm not mistaken
Other thing about pirating is that it makes easier and better file transfer ... i can't buy something cause of where i live, i'v been waiting for sw:tor for about 2-3 years(there are ppl who are waiting for it even more) and still EA hasn't made it possible for me to buy it just cause i don't like in US, i would love to play it but i just can't buy it cause i don't live in some big country where i can get everything i want, 50% of the time i can't get something cause it's not available in my cty
@stefanjoksa To answer your points...you don't 'want' to wait...which sounds selfish to me. You want it NOW and damn the people who put hard work and effort into it. Your desire for entertainment on a game you want to play now is more important than someone earning a living. As far as TOR goes...you really couldn't be waiting 2 - 3 years for it. It's only been out for about a month...As far as 'outdated' content goes, that's where things get gray area (as I've said before)
@Toegoff He obviously meant he has been waiting the release, nonetheless there are plenty of ways to buy it, you can buy it digital with paypal for example(only bank card required), or go to the nearest shop.
@Xaoja Well I thought that too (assuming we are talking about the TOR comment) - but how does pirating relate at all to it? Especially an MMORPG. Good luck pirating TOR anyway. Companies tend to keep pretty tight wraps on games that require credit cards and accounts to play. Just wasn't sure how it related to the topic at hand.
99.99% of what you've been saying is about gaming, you're saying that we should wait 4 years to buy our favorite game cause we can't afford it atm, i don't want to to do that, i want to play it now, and why shouldn't i be able when i can, other ppl buy it for us and share it with us, but the real thing is that if pirating stops we won't be able to get 80% of the things cause there isn't any other way to get them, old movies or music etc...no one can sell it to you cause they just don't have 'em
One issue that bothers me is that if SOPA was made law that reviewers and online critics would get shut down if say a game/movie/book that was getting hyped up by its original game developers played/looked/written like shite then the companies can say hes abusing the use of a copyright so that info wont get to gamers and theyll end buying shitty games just like they used to get away with it in the 90s
Think how much more money Twilight could make if we didnt get reviews of its shittyness
@Toegoff Thanks for the video. I've been watching your LP's for a while but have never commented, but this video, deserves one. You are absolutely right in saying that piracy hurts not only the CEO's that we dislike but also the developers who most of the time have no choice regarding the price, developmental cycle and the type of DRM used. Those are the people we need to respect enough to resist being a pirate. Thanks for the great LPs. Good luck adjusting your circadian rhythm to your new job.
Well I still dont agree with everything you say, but I'm glad you took the time to clarify this to your audience. It shows you really care.
Oh and BTW: to youtube's troll herd: calling someone a faggot on his own video in which he only expressed his OWN opinion, a basic right of the US law? *sarcastic clapping*
By the way, I live in a country where an apartment costs an average of $300,000.... No its not a mansion. Its a small 5 room flat. I wish i were exaggerating, I really do. That's the kind of price my world costs. I cannot support SOPA, because while im no expert, from what ive read/understood of it, it is quite possible that the online gaming business would literally collapse should this be fully implemented. Posting videos of games/news/medical access/music and more will become copyrighted.
would you not consider it an exception if someone merely downloaded the game/movie etc to see if they actually like them before they buy them as otherwise if they end up not liking the game it is a total waste of their money
i like to pirate a game be for i buy it and i think piracy is a bad thing but a good thing theres bad reasons to pirate but good ones to but you are kinda right
The way to end piracy is not to use the stick, but the carrots instead. From a life story, people used to complain about elevators being too slow in high rise apartments. The solution wasn't to 'upgrade' the lifts or anything complex like that. The solution was to install mirrors on board the elevators, and from that day on, people were too busy checking themselves to care about the speed of the lifts. In simple terms, make INCENTIVES. e.g. solid multiplayer content, dedicated game servers, etc.
I hate to repeat myself, but once again I have to agree with you. Especially on the "pirating is not the same as boycotting" point. Plus yes, there are enough free games. And wow, 5 million pirated versions of "the witcher 2" versus 1 million sold copies? That does disgust me.
But why say you support SOPA at all? You're anti-piracy, you believe there needs to be a some anti-piracy law enforced that's not so extreme. But SOPA itself is extreme and that's all there is to that bill, they're not going to strip it down to anything more reasonable, that'd be another bill. The fact that you say you support SOPA at all just brews up pointless arguments, since you don't even support it, you support anti-piracy.
These bills overall aren't a solution. Too many "side effects".
I personally buy all my games off steam. If its not on steam, i simply just wont buy it. All my friends play steam games to, so its not a problem for me. I CAN understand if some younger people, who maybe don't have jobs, want to download the newest games, and not wait a couple years like you suggest. Yes that would be the right thing to do, but people want to play games, when the rest of the world is. If you have a job, and just want free games, i totally disagree with that.
The only reason I pirate games anymore is to "demo" them and see if they even run on my computer, since almost nobody makes demo versions anymore. I've had too much childhood trauma from buying games that don't work properly, so now I need to be absolutely sure that they do before buying. So, for example I downloaded Skyrim illegally at first and played it a little bit to see if it's playable enough, and when I came to the conclusion that it is, I deleted the illegal copy and bought it on Steam.
The prices on video-games in Norway at launch is around $100.... I kid you not, stuff is expensive here and a lot of my friends pirate games just because of that, and they use the reason: "We can't afford games, so we pirate them."... Stupid as hell, I say. people just need to work more for the money, stop being lazy and heg a job.
say someone buys a pokemon game. now say that person is REALLY STUPID and loses it. then say he uses an emulator to finish it. am i- i mean is he a pirate?
I think people have right to see actual ingame footage before making a decision to buy a game or not. Nowdays you just can't rely on trailers and game "reviewers" to give a realistic picture of the game (hench piracy), if I'm considering about buying a game I usually wait for a bit, see how other people like it and then look for ingame footage online. If all looks good I'll buy the game.
LPs are free advertisement for game developers, I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Unless the game sucks.
Also Toegoff, you don't need to explain why piracy is bad, it's common sense. But the thing is they are pushing it, for example copyright on movies, can last till a century past a directors death. Music is also a pure ripoff, games downloaded digitally should be cheaper imho, but this is all opinion and irrelevant. The only thing I download atm, are TV series, mostly because they aren't for sale here nor shown on TV.
Hmm, really shocked me when u said there's 5 times more pirated downloads of The Witcher 2. That is just asking RP to put DRM in their games, and they probably will if a 3d Witcher comes out...
@xPuppetearAMVs Most of these pirates are customers who bought the game but couldn't play for 2 weeks due to a DRM error so they pirated a cracked copy to be able to play the game they bought. About half of the Witcher 2 copies sold would simply not activate, the activation keys wouldn't get cleared by the DRM server and they couldn't fix it. It took them 2 weeks to resolve this, too long! Fuck CDProjektRED for covering their asses and acting like victims, they screwed fans.
You want videogame piracy to stop? Don't charge over $40 dollars for a game, just so to make a massive profit. Activision's CEO said he'd charge over $80 for a game if he could.They realise the absolute maximum the can get away with charging people and they push this limit. Why do you think Steam is so successful? Due to it's sales.
Simply if you want videogame piracy to stop. Then companies need to fairly price their products, and make new releases considerably cheaper.
I buy all my games and my software, I have my standards. I'm not happy at moments with some games tho, like SR3 which was extremely short yet very pricey, not worth it's money in the end. But then you have games like Skyrim where you get way more hours than what you paid so it all works out I guess.
Honestly I'm iffy about piracy some I would love to buy more dvds and albums....but to me they have to be worth the money that someone is charging for them I didn't mention the movie theater because it's ridiculous some of the prices to go see a movie now a days when alot of them are hardly worth the admission......as far as having a computer goes lot of the jobs now a days have a certain catch most you have to apply online for....how many people have computers for such a reason idk.
Honestly I'm iffy about piracy some I would love to buy more dvds and albums....but to me they have to be worth the money that someone is charging for them I didn't mention the movie theater because it's ridiculous some of the prices to go see a movie now a days when alot of them are hardly worth the admission......as far as having a computer goes lot of the jobs now a days have a certain catch most you have to apply online for....how many people have computers for such a reason idk...
Honestly I'm iffy about piracy some I would love to buy more dvds and albums....but to me they have to be worth the money that someone is charging for them I didn't mention the movie theater because it's ridiculous some of the prices to go see a movie now a days when alot of them are hardly worth the admission......as far as having a computer goes lot of the jobs now a days have a certain catch most you have to apply online for....how many people have computers for such a reason idk...
and how beneficial is it to our culture to have this resource on hand? if you slimline your point to exclusively be about game developers deserving a good wage, then you need to look at the objective facts instead of what the lobbyists claim, that they're being robbed of billions each year.. we have more indies being successful than ever before and the gaming industry is worth more than ever before. these two facts show how piracy is largely irrelevent if-not actually positive.
we all accept libraries as beneficial to our culture, because its heritage.
but really it is just piracy, its works identically to a torrent site. they dont work for profit, they have one original copy which is paid for or donated, and gets shared hundreds of times. you need to look at the bigger picture. how much learning material on the internet is directly from books and information sources which someone holds a copyright to?
@AndyMcNabStab yes, libraries work in the same way as torrent sites, except for one very important thing... permissions!! libraries have the permission of the publishers to loan out the materials, if they didnt then they would be breaking piracy laws, but unlike torrent sites, they do.
@bjorncharlie69 libraries dont need permissions at all. they rely on donations or council budget to buy books which they share.. thats it. you think they need explicit rights for each book? lol.
nope, it is identical to someone buying the game and uploading it to share. they arent breaking copyright laws because they arent producing anything containing copyrighted material, just sharing it. and nothing is stolen because to steal something you must deprive the owner of it.
@AndyMcNabStab you mistake the meaning of permissions! it doesnt mean they have to be handed the book directly. it just means they have been given permission by the IP holder to do certain things with the IP! i guarantee that every IP holder for books ie the publisher gives permissions to libraries.
To be perfectly honest I don't think the majority of pirates know what CDprojektRed is when they downloaded The Witcher 2. Further more I don't think the majority of pirates know why they hate EA. It's just something you should hate because of online pirate-peer-pressure.
I do agree with your views to some extent. However I suppose I pirate for the same immoral reasons I eat meat. I just don't care enough about the poor lil' animals.
Does Toe realize the right to censor any site at the press of a button is a bad thing? Someone could get youtube taken down because people play games on it.
@joshrocks11 Remember that part where I said to watch the entire video? My opinion has always been that SOPA is written too vaguely and grants too much power in its current state. Please get out of this 'brainwashing' where you hear SOPA and your brain shuts off as you think 'evil evil evil!' I've always held the opinion it's written too vague and grants too much power. I've never supported SOPA in its current form for the very reasons you stated. Listen first :)
@Toegoff It changes it because of the simple fact that we shouldn't need some ridiculous bartering system that places other humans above each other. Have you ever looked at the way a fiat currency system works? Why can we not simply share knowledge? At the end of the day that's all SOPA is about (the restriction of). These are statements, not aggressive notion's or an attack or your opinions.
@TheDevilsSon666 Because knowledge is generally 'freely' shared. Entertainment is NOT. I can pretty easily learn almost anything I want to. Some will buy specific text or reference books because they tend to be better organized, but a quick trip to Wikipedia teaches me all I want to learn. Video games are (primarily) in the entertainment business. Currency frees us to make the choices we want by purchasing from the vendors we want.
@Toegoff Who decides whether a particular game is more for knowledge or entertainment? :) I partially disagree with the "video games are (primarily) in the entertainment business", that greatly depends on what games you play. And Wikipedia is for simple and a bit advanced questions, but if you decide to go a bit more deeper, you'll have to purchase not so cheap or really hard to get books.
@MagicNash89 um...the writer/developer decides if they want to give it for free or not. Video games primarily are entertainment...that's what the 'game' part is. They can be educational, but most every video game has some level of entertainment. A currency system works because I'd like to know that if I dedicate my time and effort to doing a job (researching, writing, developing, etc) and other people will use my work, I'd like to be compensated for my time and effort.
@Toegoff "I'd like to be compensated for my time and effort." - and developers/etc. don't get compensated today with the present level of piracy? :) "They can be educational, but most every video game has some level of entertainment" - I agree, on the other hand books are (probably) primarily not entertainment, if you take all kinds into account, still they get hard to get or expensive, which hinders the free share of knowledge. Perhaps a lot more than in the video game industry.
@Toegoff though I acknowledge, that books are different, still I believe there is some point in comparing them, because books are pirated as well. What I want to stress here is that by decreasing piracy through what can be called "repressive" means the level of free knowledge sharing will be crippled. Though hard to tell what sort and how deep of a negative influence will this generally have..
@Toegoff thats ridiculous,you think wikipedia would have got where it is without a free internet to compile that information in the first place? it is sourced from thousands and thousands of books, and none of them get royalties for having their information on wikipedia. all these little indie games coming out lately likewise would never exist without piracy because probably 80% of developers were pirates before pro which is how they managed to get such understanding of the technology
@AndyMcNabStab like ive tried to make the point to you. dont try and judge what is good and bad because you dont know. we dont see all the variables in play. but we do KNOW that the entertainment industry is the biggest in the world. that games have overtaken hollywood, that indie games are successful now when they werent before. do you want to risk all that?
@AndyMcNabStab By asking people not to pirate games and take what they haven't earned? Yes I'm sure the second people take personal responsibility for their actions and choose to purchase products instead of stealing them the video game industry will crumble into the dirt. My argument has been make things like SOPA or PIPA unnecessary by showing self control and not taking what you haven't earned. Don't protest SOPA if you aren't will to be a legitimate customer
@AndyMcNabStab Wait...80% of indie developers were the people writing hacks to pirate games? Indie games are becoming more successful now thanks to things like Xbox Live Arcade and Steam which is allowing them to get more exposure. Don't pull numbers/facts out of your ass. Knowing how to hack game files does NOT help you better understand the coding, make you a better artist, musician, etc. Wikipedia also doesn't have to pay royalties because they don't plagiarize.
@Toegoff yeah toegoff see., i think its time you take your own medicine. i said "PROBABLY 80%" im not pretending to be a statistician, im conveying to you an idea.
wtf do YOU want? yes toegoff, indies are becoming popular because PEOPLE ARE BUYING THEM. CONGRATULATIONS! 95% of the world arent robbing lying scum who would cheat someone of their lifes work. is that such a fucking suprise to you? so considering that, WHAT is the point of your videos? what do you suggest?
@AndyMcNabStab Althoguh I generally don't agree with Toegoff, though he has some good points, I'd request you to be a bit more calm and "less Caps Lock" for the sake of the discussion - come on, arguments > any sort of hate speech :)
@AndyMcNabStab Well when you throw out stats and facts that are just plain silly, I feel like I have to counter them. Learning to write cracks for games has almost nothing to do with actually creating a game. And clearly, many people are still pirating. The point of the videos is to try to help people understand why it is a problem, who it is hurting, and providing another side to the piracy issue. Self control will make government control unnecessary
@Toegoff ive given you plenty of examples and made the point to you that you cant define bad from good. humans cant in general. this is what practically every religion teaches as its principle. you remember the little story i pm'd you? ive given you examples such as my own but youve ignored them: the only games ive brought recently have been pirated. i wouldnt buy a game i couldnt pirate first, with the economy and with inaccurate/biased reviews in mind. but instead i have brought games
@AndyMcNabStab and upgraded my system, supporting 2 industries at a time i wouldnt have supported either. my ability to, for example, download mw3, see it was crap, and spend my money on rock of ages instead. is actually important to the success of gaming to be able to do this. otherwise, because activision can BUY reviews from the likes of IGN, without piracy i would always end up buying the new mw3 and not the smaller, better, more creative games that deserve the money.
@AndyMcNabStab my ultimate point is that there are more variables than you can understand so stop trying to be a good guy that you think you should be because even good intentions can be dangerous. just late nature take its course..
@AndyMcNabStab Humans can generally define bad from good. It's called your conscience. Also...I assume you mean bought and not brought. Regardless, it's up to you to make your own decisions. I certainly can't force you to do anything. However, I think if you believe the only reason that indie gaming is successful is because of pirating, you are mistaken. Nature taking it's course will be things like SOPA. The government stepping in to protect intellectual property.
@Toegoff and where the hell do i suggest pirates are hackers? you seem confused dude. piracy has been integral to many indie devs because without it, they wouldnt have been able to envelope themselves with the content they enjoy, they would have never learned to code or be inspired to create their own games. and plaguarize? that couldnt be more invalid. do you know the meaning of the word? a straight copy cannot be plaguarism.
@AndyMcNabStab sorry pal i unsubbed. thats twice youve insulted me in as many days, the first time i corrected you and you couldnt bring yourself to apologise but neither to argue your point. now you insult me while not reading my post fully (again), and you do this between whining and bitching about other people replying before watching your entire video. sort it out, im off.
@AndyMcNabStab I read your comments but they make no sense. Do you know any indie developer that supports piracy? Do you know any developers at all? I'm not talking about not supporting SOPA - that's different. I'm talking about indie developers who support Piracy. And ... that is part of the definition of plagiarism. Plagiarism is either a direct copy or very close (without crediting the author).
I pirate 90% of the games that interest me and have no available demo.
Most of the time I end up playing for a couple of hours and never touch them again.
If they give me a long demo its like saying "we're confident of this product, if you buy it this is what you'll get"
If they don't give me a demo its like saying "we're not confident enough to show you the real gameplay, have a look at this edited trailer footage instead!"
toegoff i try to listen but you are so arrogant, telling people that you dont think they understood your argument, and then asserting again that they havn't listened to you before replying. these people take time from their day to listen to you, and you speak to them like that.
A paranoid approach regarding those sites is preferable to being caught in violation of law.
I agree with Toegoff based on the fact that people have to have self control regarding piracy.
That being said though Toegoff I disagree with the approach that you can download something if it is unable to be obtained ... unable to obtain is still under copyright cover.
Best idea if you do aim to pirate ... is to use it for "Evaluation purposes" or get a trial of the product then pay for it later.
There are many sites out there where you have to pay to download other peoples products. Those sites do contribute to the product owners based on their downloading as such there is no piracy involved as you are paying for it. That being said it is an option you can take but make certain you fully read any agreement if they are indemnifying themselves based on downloads.. then it is illegal to download from there.
maybee if we had less pirecy we would have lower prices too for pc games
candoslayer 3 days ago
Also: please, everyone, boycot EA and, possibly, BioWare for a while so they'll make a good DA game again.
cvrc11 2 weeks ago
I need to show this video to my uncle. I have been trying to tell him for YEARS now that pirating is just wrong, but he just won't listen. He's fairly well off, he's just MASSIVELY cheap.
cvrc11 2 weeks ago
So lets say that i brought a game (fable the lost chapter) back in 2007 or 2008 and over the course of the years one of the four disks got destroyed so later in 2011 i pirated it on Piratebay, you know so i could play it again.
Do you think this is alright.?
FenrirTheDevourer 1 month ago
@FenrirTheDevourer I'd say if you actually bought it then yeah, that'd be fine
KuraiNanaya 4 weeks ago in playlist Liked videos
Very good points! I tried explaining this to my friend but he didn't get it, Oh well. Anyway, completely unrelated, I can find you harvest moon livestream videos on livestream, where are they?!
shadow122694 1 month ago
I've never pirated anything, give me a hug? D:
TheMasapoika1 1 month ago
piracy will never be an isuue just don't ever get caught,,,the real issue is people playing computer games all alone when they could just buy a football and go outside and hang out with friends get some fresh air and meet new people and be apart of the world and enjoy life!
gypseetim 1 month ago
@gypseetim You make it sound like everyone loves football and people who go on the computer never go outside or talk to anyone they know in real life.
8kanoro8 1 month ago 4
Part 6. When the vinel record came out, it is to show the copyright holders that hey, I like your song, and I want to listen to it without going to your concert. Are people just gonna wait indefinitely for the copyright holders to enter the market? No. They are gonna get the first vinel that came out which are usually the pirates.
FD87 1 month ago
Part 5. Piracy have been rampant since the invention of the printing press. Piracy is not a crime per say, but it's the human response when there is a hole in the market where the original copyright owners has not or has no interest to be in which is caused by the advancement of technology.
FD87 1 month ago
Part 4. Fast forward a few years came the PC and the software and hardware to burn your own CD. Again MPAA and RIAA went berserk asking the government to make new laws. Sony went further to install viruses to anyone who attempt to rip their CDs.
Then came P2P sharing and recently high speed cloud sharing.
FD87 1 month ago
Part 3. Fast forward a few more years, came the video tape recorder. The MPAA and Hollywood went apeshit asking the US government to ban the VCR to hit the market. Their representative went so far to compare VCR to Hollywood is to the Boston Strangler to a defenseless woman at home.
FD87 1 month ago
Part 2. When the first vianel records came out, many singers were in an uproar saying that this horrible black object is stealing their voices and taking their jobs.
Fast forward a few years, came the cassette tape recorders. Again uproar saying people can pirate the radio by taping their favourite songs instead of listening to them on the radio. Google "hometaping is killing music"
FD87 1 month ago
Part 1. Personally I believe that piracy is not a moral or criminal problem. It's actually the clash between 2 industries which is the entertainment industry and the technology industry.
We need to take a look back into history over the past 100 years to see that really nothing has changed. It is the same thing happening over and over again.
FD87 1 month ago
Toegoff is the Spartacus of the anti-piracy movement.
MatthiasYoung 1 month ago
I've been in many situations where I simply didn't have the money to buy a game that I wanted, and even though I knew I could get it for free, I went with moral choice that it wasn't the right thing to do. I wasn't ignorant despite my situation. I could've pirated, but I didn't. This is what Toegoff was trying to explain, but a lot of people seemed to get turned off by it. Self Discipline and responsible choice, simply.
1B7ack1 1 month ago 5
I understand what you mean, Toegoff = )
1B7ack1 1 month ago
Great view Toe! Agree on 99% of what you said.
pbelkin 1 month ago
Toe u make the most seance out of all all of the you tube people out there. I LOVE your opinions keep up the good work and don't listen to the bullshit out there :D
kaganluvstacos 1 month ago
In the words of the president of Valve, Piracy is a customer service problem. People tend to use whatever option is easiest and don't have moral qualms about paying for the best service they can get.
DreamerM 1 month ago
i dont do it because i use a ps3
FALUKYOURMOM 1 month ago
I don't think SOPA is really about stopping piracy. Sure they could shut down a few sites (although they managed to shut down MegaUpload without SOPA) but the pirates will always just make new sites or file sharing methods.) SOPA is far more effective at giving corporations leverage to threaten legitimate sites like YouTube and forcing them to censor us than it is at stopping piracy.
Thank god that awful bill didn't pass.
Iridescence93 1 month ago
why don't they take down the websites
tassle90 1 month ago
if i cant afford a game and i want to play it,guess what,im going to play it. i dont give a shit what the government says,ill still play them.ill pirate if i need to
Tresskzilla 1 month ago
@Tresskzilla Me thinks you don't understand the power of the government, or how little control over the internet you have :P A couple courses in networking could teach you a lot. This is truly the problem with this 'entitled childish' mindset. You believe you earn and deserve something simply because 'I want I want I want' Damn the people who get screwed over by you. It's truly depressing to see people so pathetic they care more about personal greed above all else.
Toegoff 1 month ago 6
@Toegoff
i know very well what the government is capable of but as i said,i dont give a shit what they do,if i cant afford it and want to play it,then im going to play it.
Tresskzilla 1 month ago
@Tresskzilla So you agree with me that you are little more than a spoiled brat who thinks he is entitled to whatever he wants because he simply wants it.
All I can hope is that one day you gain a bit of maturity and realize that everything has a price. Always fun to find someone who has the mindset of a 3 year old though :) You've been most entertaining
Toegoff 1 month ago 7
@Toegoff
"most entertaining"? all you care about is getting paid from youtube uploads and posts,even as i write this,im paying you. so who are you call someone else selfish or greedy?
Tresskzilla 1 month ago
@Tresskzilla You are paying me? And all this time I thought google was writing my checks. I humbly thank you. No Tresskzilla...you are not paying me. You are going to my videos for free entertainment and Google is paying me. You can easily close any ad that you like. And I'm not making much money from ad :)
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff The whole reason I pirate is because of poverty, I don't have the money that I need to play these games, listen to this music, in general pass the time. I am looking for a job, and everyone else in my family is in very bad standing right now.
Besides, Im Canadian. So the US Government, can go fuck there rich asses with a retractable baton.
Gmod1001 1 month ago
@Gmod1001 The whole reason you pirate is because you don't want to pay for a game that YOU want. There are plenty of open source, freeware, and shareware games out there that are amazing. There are plenty of games that are $5 and below. And what does the US Government have to do with piracy? I don't think anyone is pirating anything from the US Gov...
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff For one, I can not stand playing most freeware games, not to mention that I don't have $5 typically to spend on that. I mentioned the US Government due to things like how they extradited a UK Colledge student to the US for crimes that are illegal in the US, and NOT the UK. And thanks to Steven Harper, in theory they could do the same to someone like me.
Gmod1001 1 month ago
@Gmod1001 If you do not have $5, what about $2.50 or $3? GOG.com and Steam (if you use Steam .... which I don't) regularly have sales that put their prices in that price range. GOG, in fact, has sales every weekend and almost every Wednesday. Make a wishlist there and then wait for the titles you want to go on sale. If you eat fast food, buy a bag of m&ms, or buy a 12pk of soda even once a month, you can just as easily use that money on games. They are older titles, but are no less fun.
photographerleia 1 month ago
@photographerleia Also it should be mentioned Gmod, that if you do not even have $3.00 a month, you at least have $1 or 50 cents. Designate a jar for collecting loose change, and purposefully place a dollar (when you have it) in that jar. If you only use then jar for gaming, then when big sales come around you can stock up on the games you want with the money you have saved. Just because you do not have the money you need *right now* to buy the game doesn't mean that you can't plan ahead.
photographerleia 1 month ago
@Gmod1001 Not having the money, is never an excuse. Even when money is tight, most people are still spending some amount of discretionary income per month, even if that is just five or ten dollars. Self-control, planning, and prioritizing are key. For instance, I would have never been able to purchase Skyrim day of (which barely runs on my comp btw) had I waited until the day it came out. But, since I really wanted it, I saved up money over eight months (~$7.50/mo) & was able to afford it.
photographerleia 1 month ago
@photographerleia "But, since I really wanted it, I saved up money over eight months (~$7.50/mo) & was able to afford it." +Respect.
sinovera 1 month ago 3
Piracy is simply stealing, end of, its no more complicated than that. Here in the UK people claim thousands of pounds a year that they aren't entitled to simply because they can and they blame the government for not helping them to find jobs. Find a job yourself you lazy bastards and if you can't afford games then save up. I think alot of people lack the guidance on whats right and wrong....
Hawkeye19821 1 month ago
When I order food at a restaurant....if my food and service sucks I send it back for a full refund. I see both of these as the same thing. Going to a restaurant is a luxury. I spend 10 times the amount the food costs to get good service and really good food that I could not make myself. I expect the same out of my video games. So when I download something, if it's horrible I send it back and do not buy it. If it's good, I pay.
trista1986 1 month ago
Thank you Toe!!! Totally agree with you and I was also pissed about what happened with the Witcher 2 piracy.
TheEagleShot 1 month ago
I agree, but the simple truth is, greed runs strong in human nature...
saladoray 1 month ago
you've got a good point there Toe!
TolHydra 1 month ago
On a side note. As a customer you are entitled to a product that is actually worth the price. And lets face the ugly fact here. Most games released these days is not. Not saying it excuses pirating, but if developers and publishers would focus more on making their games off a good quality you'd reduce another chunk off that piracy loss. And the only way as a customer you can affect what developers/publishers do is with your wallet.
Terwox11 1 month ago
@Terwox11 No. Your are NOT entitled to a fair price. You are entitled to purchase the game at what the vendor sets. You run yourself into a catch 22. Publishers and developers can just say, "Well when people stop pirating our games, we'll spend more time on quality." As I said, if you are unhappy with the price of a game, do not purchase it or wait until that price sinks. It is not up to you to decide what is a fair price for everyone. 'Fair price' is what is in your head.
Toegoff 1 month ago 4
@Toegoff
if your not pirating then why would it "ruin it" for the rest of us? hmm?
Tresskzilla 1 month ago
@Tresskzilla because sopa is proposed because of you and sopa doesn't only stop piracy but it closes several sites, if you kep like that resisting to sopa is harder
MateusVIII 1 month ago
@Tresskzilla what? I think I get your question, but it makes little sense in how it is worded. When you pirate, you are part of a collective of people who pirate. Intellectual copyright holders get annoyed that you are getting their stuff for free. They complain to the government. The government goes, hmm, we need to crack down on regulation. SOPA! So when you pirate, you in essence tempt the government to force their hand to protect an industry.
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff Actually, you are entitled to the product being worth the price as a customer. There are several laws in several countries that explains that in greater detail than I can provide. Most notably in the form off quality assurance, which is exactly what I meant in this case. Lets take sword of the stars 2 as an example. The game came out at full retail price in a state more befitting an alpha build than a release. A game absolutely not worth the full retail price.
Terwox11 1 month ago
@Terwox11 No you aren't 'entitled' to it. You'd like, but especially something as subjective as entertainment, you are not entitled to any price. You're entitled to QA in things like a car (Lemon Laws) or a Home...but certainly not a video game. If you don't like it, you return it...simple as that. Entertainment is too subjective. You are entitled to the price the vendor sets...nothing else.
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff Well, we just have to agree to disagree then. But quite frankly if you feel that the people unfortunate enough to have bought sword off the stars 2 on release for full retail price in its alpha state (which they did not know until they had already boought the game coz the publisher hid the fact) are not entitled to a game that works. Then I don't understand you at all.
Terwox11 1 month ago
@Toegoff Oh and one more thing, about returning the game. Digital games you have no such rights. Same goes for physical copies off games. At least in my country. Although most shops that sells physical copies will, if you are polite and they care about their customers, allow you to swap a game you want to return for another product(s) off equal value.
Terwox11 1 month ago
Can't remember who said this, think it was one off the guys over at steam/valve. "Piracy is a service problem, provide a better service and less people will pirate." And considering steam, gog, impulse and similar sites/services. I agree that providing a better service can reduce pirating.
Terwox11 1 month ago
The only two reasons where pirating is OK is when the developer will not make any money on the title or if its impossible to buy the game in the area you live in due to the game not shipping in your country or being banned. Other than that its wrong. However having said that we will never be able to stop pirating. There will always be people who just want shit for free.
TheKuiske 1 month ago
this was not a very thought out argument against piracy. i love your videos toe but the bottom line on piracy is that if your dling a game because you cant afford it,guess what,you CANT afford it. how your going to sit there and say that people cant afford the games they dl is bullshit then im sorry but your argument is bullshit. if they cant afford it,they just simply cant afford it,no need to get technical or intellectual about it. people pirate because they have to not because they want to.
Tresskzilla 1 month ago
@Tresskzilla Wait...HAVE to? We are talking video games here right? Entertainment...things that you do that your survival isn't based off of? If they can't afford it they can: wait until they've earned the money to buy it (and more than likely the price will go down on the game too). If we are talking stealing food to survive, that's a different moral argument. This is stealing intellectual property because you feel entitled to have something you don't deserve.
Toegoff 1 month ago 16
@Toegoff i would just like to point out as well that there are hundreds and hundreds of free games that cost nothing to play many of them quite fun. TF2 for instance. Great game thats free and enjoyable. So if people are that desperate can play many free games like i did until i saved money to buy a decent rig and games. p.s i agree with pirating old games that can no longer be bought except on the internet and which the original innovatory no longer get money for. (Sorry for the poor wording.)
mrsmileperson 1 month ago
@mrsmileperson Innovator*
mrsmileperson 1 month ago
@mrsmileperson i made those comments before i watched the video :P
mrsmileperson 1 month ago
@Toegoff
food is an aid to survive but the same could be said for food. "sorry we know your hungry but come back when you have more money" yeah... no thanks. ill pirate when i feel its necessary.
Tresskzilla 1 month ago
@Tresskzilla Food - Needed for survival. Video games - wanted to cure boredom. See the difference? No one has ever died of boredom to my knowledge. Starving to death is a horrible fate and truly tragic...oh no, you can't afford that new video game you want - that is clearly on the same level as starvation. It is people such as yourself that are the true cause of SOPA. Show self control so that you don't ruin it for the rest of us please :)
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff i brought star wars battlefront 2 on steam.the game did not worked and lusca arts customer helper did not helped too much.had i pirated it i would not had brought it and would not wasted money.and BTW if you are not going to buy a game then you are not damaging anyone be pirating BTW the creators of fable agree with me on this point
onsholo 1 month ago
@Toegoff oh yeah BTW i amost forgot it bullshit that you buy a game yet you cannot be considerated a owner of it copyrights for example:star wars galaxy a star wars MMO pay to play yet it was closed down however made a long time subscribe and ahd it curted down to less than half of the play time and recived no even 1% of they money back and also lets not forget matrix online:the same thing happened to it
onsholo 1 month ago
@Tresskzilla no one needs games games are things people want you don't die for no having a game
MateusVIII 1 month ago
@Tresskzilla Video games are a luxury not a necessity, you do not "have to" buy a game. When I was younger I never got video games unless I payed for them myself or as a present and I rarely got new games and consoles when they first released and played on my regular xbox for two years after the 360 came out. If you want something you shouldn't steal it you should set money aside and save up for it, it shows support to the people who made the awesome game your playing so they can make more.
SmellsLikeDarkside 1 month ago
well, I dont pirate or buy them, I just watch your walkthroughs, ;) great job, and you have a good prespective in the subject.
TheGamaxx 1 month ago
I see pirating like stealing from a store because you think that product is too expenisve or you just can't afford it.
DarkPoop097 1 month ago
Toe... plus ten respect sir.
MrFixedPanic 1 month ago
I had that problem with Mass Effect 2, I LOVED the first one and I just had to play ME2.
Only problem was that I couldn't pay for it. So I had to wait 6 MONTHS before I could buy it, meanwhile hearing all the great stories of people who played that game.
But when I got the game I went crazy and I loved it almost as much as my girlfriend (maybe even more haha).
That's one big reason for me not to pirate games, I just can't enjoy games that I don't deserve.
MrTixmix 1 month ago
@AstralArchon the game went into creation i have no idea when ... and then it was announced that sw kotor 3 is coming out, but it was shut down and later they started working on it again
stefanjoksa 1 month ago
Toegoff you should do a video about acta fucking americans have been passing it under the radar this will destroy the internet and nothing on your computer will be private anymore I emplore you to do a video on acta this is about more than games man its about invasion of our human rights
TheFoxyDemon 1 month ago
@TheFoxyDemon Don't you mean the fucking government? Not just Americans genius <_<
tom1yum2goong 1 month ago
@tom1yum2goong no i mean the americans they came up with ACTA and are the onces pushing for its passing
TheFoxyDemon 1 month ago
@TheFoxyDemon Omg this fucking guy <_<........ Japan proposed the idea and soon the U.S. ran with it after that, they pressed for it to be passed as law in the UNITED NATIONS MEET. Only a few countries are part of it right now however Australia, Canada and the European Union it English verison was only finished LAST YEAR. Do some research before you start bashing americans bro.
tom1yum2goong 1 month ago
@tom1yum2goong i dont care who made it i just think that i shouldnt be passed its gonna ruin the internet and take away peoples privacy
TheFoxyDemon 1 month ago
@Toegoff yeah i know it does sound selfish but why do i need to wait for something when i can get it in few hours ? And i'v been waiting for TOR for over 3 years and some ppl even more, not since it came out but since it was announced ... the game was announced like 10 years ago if i'm not mistaken
stefanjoksa 1 month ago
@stefanjoksa The game was announced October of 2008.
AstralArchon 1 month ago
Thumps up if you watched the wholde video
myo1995 1 month ago 26
Other thing about pirating is that it makes easier and better file transfer ... i can't buy something cause of where i live, i'v been waiting for sw:tor for about 2-3 years(there are ppl who are waiting for it even more) and still EA hasn't made it possible for me to buy it just cause i don't like in US, i would love to play it but i just can't buy it cause i don't live in some big country where i can get everything i want, 50% of the time i can't get something cause it's not available in my cty
stefanjoksa 1 month ago
@stefanjoksa To answer your points...you don't 'want' to wait...which sounds selfish to me. You want it NOW and damn the people who put hard work and effort into it. Your desire for entertainment on a game you want to play now is more important than someone earning a living. As far as TOR goes...you really couldn't be waiting 2 - 3 years for it. It's only been out for about a month...As far as 'outdated' content goes, that's where things get gray area (as I've said before)
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff He obviously meant he has been waiting the release, nonetheless there are plenty of ways to buy it, you can buy it digital with paypal for example(only bank card required), or go to the nearest shop.
Xaoja 1 month ago
@Xaoja Well I thought that too (assuming we are talking about the TOR comment) - but how does pirating relate at all to it? Especially an MMORPG. Good luck pirating TOR anyway. Companies tend to keep pretty tight wraps on games that require credit cards and accounts to play. Just wasn't sure how it related to the topic at hand.
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff How could pirate a MMORPG anyway? That's like kicking an active nuke that is so easy to set off...
nejiharuno 1 month ago
@stefanjoksa THat is not an excuse. You can buy on Steam, Gamehunter, GoG.com and many other game providers.
steinblood 1 month ago
99.99% of what you've been saying is about gaming, you're saying that we should wait 4 years to buy our favorite game cause we can't afford it atm, i don't want to to do that, i want to play it now, and why shouldn't i be able when i can, other ppl buy it for us and share it with us, but the real thing is that if pirating stops we won't be able to get 80% of the things cause there isn't any other way to get them, old movies or music etc...no one can sell it to you cause they just don't have 'em
stefanjoksa 1 month ago
BTW-
ACTA flew under the radar and is being passed worldwide including the US, its basically SOPA/PIPA except all of the internet including the US
LeoHwzrChannel 1 month ago
@LeoHwzrChannel NO it hasn't... it's still too widely debated
Lostprophetzzz 1 month ago
One issue that bothers me is that if SOPA was made law that reviewers and online critics would get shut down if say a game/movie/book that was getting hyped up by its original game developers played/looked/written like shite then the companies can say hes abusing the use of a copyright so that info wont get to gamers and theyll end buying shitty games just like they used to get away with it in the 90s
Think how much more money Twilight could make if we didnt get reviews of its shittyness
LeoHwzrChannel 1 month ago
@Toegoff Thanks for the video. I've been watching your LP's for a while but have never commented, but this video, deserves one. You are absolutely right in saying that piracy hurts not only the CEO's that we dislike but also the developers who most of the time have no choice regarding the price, developmental cycle and the type of DRM used. Those are the people we need to respect enough to resist being a pirate. Thanks for the great LPs. Good luck adjusting your circadian rhythm to your new job.
Gamespotfan1 1 month ago
Well I still dont agree with everything you say, but I'm glad you took the time to clarify this to your audience. It shows you really care.
Oh and BTW: to youtube's troll herd: calling someone a faggot on his own video in which he only expressed his OWN opinion, a basic right of the US law? *sarcastic clapping*
MegaDragonslayer1234 1 month ago
blurg?
bellystraw 1 month ago
By the way, I live in a country where an apartment costs an average of $300,000.... No its not a mansion. Its a small 5 room flat. I wish i were exaggerating, I really do. That's the kind of price my world costs. I cannot support SOPA, because while im no expert, from what ive read/understood of it, it is quite possible that the online gaming business would literally collapse should this be fully implemented. Posting videos of games/news/medical access/music and more will become copyrighted.
IsThisHacked 1 month ago
whats your view on emulators? i like them but i only use the game if i purchased it
GBchzhead 1 month ago
what i use now a days is LP's as a demo for weather or not buying a game :3
GBchzhead 1 month ago 3
would you not consider it an exception if someone merely downloaded the game/movie etc to see if they actually like them before they buy them as otherwise if they end up not liking the game it is a total waste of their money
TheFoxyDemon 1 month ago
@Toegoff Thanks!!! The open source things really are fun :)
TheJackGinger 1 month ago
@Toegoff
i like to pirate a game be for i buy it and i think piracy is a bad thing but a good thing theres bad reasons to pirate but good ones to but you are kinda right
BradleyKowalczyk 1 month ago
The way to end piracy is not to use the stick, but the carrots instead. From a life story, people used to complain about elevators being too slow in high rise apartments. The solution wasn't to 'upgrade' the lifts or anything complex like that. The solution was to install mirrors on board the elevators, and from that day on, people were too busy checking themselves to care about the speed of the lifts. In simple terms, make INCENTIVES. e.g. solid multiplayer content, dedicated game servers, etc.
IsThisHacked 1 month ago
I hate to repeat myself, but once again I have to agree with you. Especially on the "pirating is not the same as boycotting" point. Plus yes, there are enough free games. And wow, 5 million pirated versions of "the witcher 2" versus 1 million sold copies? That does disgust me.
lilaclona 1 month ago
But why say you support SOPA at all? You're anti-piracy, you believe there needs to be a some anti-piracy law enforced that's not so extreme. But SOPA itself is extreme and that's all there is to that bill, they're not going to strip it down to anything more reasonable, that'd be another bill. The fact that you say you support SOPA at all just brews up pointless arguments, since you don't even support it, you support anti-piracy.
These bills overall aren't a solution. Too many "side effects".
KaneBenedict 1 month ago
Completely Agree with you toe.
xmalanicx 1 month ago
I personally buy all my games off steam. If its not on steam, i simply just wont buy it. All my friends play steam games to, so its not a problem for me. I CAN understand if some younger people, who maybe don't have jobs, want to download the newest games, and not wait a couple years like you suggest. Yes that would be the right thing to do, but people want to play games, when the rest of the world is. If you have a job, and just want free games, i totally disagree with that.
eNyaaaw 1 month ago
The only reason I pirate games anymore is to "demo" them and see if they even run on my computer, since almost nobody makes demo versions anymore. I've had too much childhood trauma from buying games that don't work properly, so now I need to be absolutely sure that they do before buying. So, for example I downloaded Skyrim illegally at first and played it a little bit to see if it's playable enough, and when I came to the conclusion that it is, I deleted the illegal copy and bought it on Steam.
Jontman42 1 month ago
I be a true buccaneer, aarr! you ne'er stop me and me mateys, scurvy dogs! ..aarr!
SuperSymn 1 month ago
Hey toe what did you study in college to become a network and software engineer?
Spongeking5 1 month ago
The prices on video-games in Norway at launch is around $100.... I kid you not, stuff is expensive here and a lot of my friends pirate games just because of that, and they use the reason: "We can't afford games, so we pirate them."... Stupid as hell, I say. people just need to work more for the money, stop being lazy and heg a job.
Th3Crush4der 1 month ago
say someone buys a pokemon game. now say that person is REALLY STUPID and loses it. then say he uses an emulator to finish it. am i- i mean is he a pirate?
TheFlexxyNapalm 1 month ago
I think people have right to see actual ingame footage before making a decision to buy a game or not. Nowdays you just can't rely on trailers and game "reviewers" to give a realistic picture of the game (hench piracy), if I'm considering about buying a game I usually wait for a bit, see how other people like it and then look for ingame footage online. If all looks good I'll buy the game.
LPs are free advertisement for game developers, I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Unless the game sucks.
MJ1284 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Also Toegoff, you don't need to explain why piracy is bad, it's common sense. But the thing is they are pushing it, for example copyright on movies, can last till a century past a directors death. Music is also a pure ripoff, games downloaded digitally should be cheaper imho, but this is all opinion and irrelevant. The only thing I download atm, are TV series, mostly because they aren't for sale here nor shown on TV.
xPuppetearAMVs 1 month ago
Hmm, really shocked me when u said there's 5 times more pirated downloads of The Witcher 2. That is just asking RP to put DRM in their games, and they probably will if a 3d Witcher comes out...
xPuppetearAMVs 1 month ago
@xPuppetearAMVs Most of these pirates are customers who bought the game but couldn't play for 2 weeks due to a DRM error so they pirated a cracked copy to be able to play the game they bought. About half of the Witcher 2 copies sold would simply not activate, the activation keys wouldn't get cleared by the DRM server and they couldn't fix it. It took them 2 weeks to resolve this, too long! Fuck CDProjektRED for covering their asses and acting like victims, they screwed fans.
PhluXx1 1 month ago
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xPuppetearAMVs 1 month ago
You want videogame piracy to stop? Don't charge over $40 dollars for a game, just so to make a massive profit. Activision's CEO said he'd charge over $80 for a game if he could.They realise the absolute maximum the can get away with charging people and they push this limit. Why do you think Steam is so successful? Due to it's sales.
Simply if you want videogame piracy to stop. Then companies need to fairly price their products, and make new releases considerably cheaper.
PhluXx1 1 month ago
I buy all my games and my software, I have my standards. I'm not happy at moments with some games tho, like SR3 which was extremely short yet very pricey, not worth it's money in the end. But then you have games like Skyrim where you get way more hours than what you paid so it all works out I guess.
xPuppetearAMVs 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Honestly I'm iffy about piracy some I would love to buy more dvds and albums....but to me they have to be worth the money that someone is charging for them I didn't mention the movie theater because it's ridiculous some of the prices to go see a movie now a days when alot of them are hardly worth the admission......as far as having a computer goes lot of the jobs now a days have a certain catch most you have to apply online for....how many people have computers for such a reason idk.
NorthWoodsNightWolf 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Honestly I'm iffy about piracy some I would love to buy more dvds and albums....but to me they have to be worth the money that someone is charging for them I didn't mention the movie theater because it's ridiculous some of the prices to go see a movie now a days when alot of them are hardly worth the admission......as far as having a computer goes lot of the jobs now a days have a certain catch most you have to apply online for....how many people have computers for such a reason idk...
NorthWoodsNightWolf 1 month ago
Honestly I'm iffy about piracy some I would love to buy more dvds and albums....but to me they have to be worth the money that someone is charging for them I didn't mention the movie theater because it's ridiculous some of the prices to go see a movie now a days when alot of them are hardly worth the admission......as far as having a computer goes lot of the jobs now a days have a certain catch most you have to apply online for....how many people have computers for such a reason idk...
NorthWoodsNightWolf 1 month ago
and how beneficial is it to our culture to have this resource on hand? if you slimline your point to exclusively be about game developers deserving a good wage, then you need to look at the objective facts instead of what the lobbyists claim, that they're being robbed of billions each year.. we have more indies being successful than ever before and the gaming industry is worth more than ever before. these two facts show how piracy is largely irrelevent if-not actually positive.
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
what about libraries?
we all accept libraries as beneficial to our culture, because its heritage.
but really it is just piracy, its works identically to a torrent site. they dont work for profit, they have one original copy which is paid for or donated, and gets shared hundreds of times. you need to look at the bigger picture. how much learning material on the internet is directly from books and information sources which someone holds a copyright to?
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab yes, libraries work in the same way as torrent sites, except for one very important thing... permissions!! libraries have the permission of the publishers to loan out the materials, if they didnt then they would be breaking piracy laws, but unlike torrent sites, they do.
bjorncharlie69 1 month ago
@bjorncharlie69 libraries dont need permissions at all. they rely on donations or council budget to buy books which they share.. thats it. you think they need explicit rights for each book? lol.
nope, it is identical to someone buying the game and uploading it to share. they arent breaking copyright laws because they arent producing anything containing copyrighted material, just sharing it. and nothing is stolen because to steal something you must deprive the owner of it.
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab you mistake the meaning of permissions! it doesnt mean they have to be handed the book directly. it just means they have been given permission by the IP holder to do certain things with the IP! i guarantee that every IP holder for books ie the publisher gives permissions to libraries.
bjorncharlie69 1 month ago
To be perfectly honest I don't think the majority of pirates know what CDprojektRed is when they downloaded The Witcher 2. Further more I don't think the majority of pirates know why they hate EA. It's just something you should hate because of online pirate-peer-pressure.
I do agree with your views to some extent. However I suppose I pirate for the same immoral reasons I eat meat. I just don't care enough about the poor lil' animals.
Guess I'm just an asshole.
IamCaptAwesome 1 month ago
Comment removed
alrdd 1 month ago
Does Toe realize the right to censor any site at the press of a button is a bad thing? Someone could get youtube taken down because people play games on it.
Supporting sopa is dumb, Toegoff. Shame on you.
joshrocks11 1 month ago 4
@joshrocks11 Remember that part where I said to watch the entire video? My opinion has always been that SOPA is written too vaguely and grants too much power in its current state. Please get out of this 'brainwashing' where you hear SOPA and your brain shuts off as you think 'evil evil evil!' I've always held the opinion it's written too vague and grants too much power. I've never supported SOPA in its current form for the very reasons you stated. Listen first :)
Toegoff 1 month ago 9
@Toegoff i love how many people ignored the first thing you said in this video....
god i despise the average youtube user.
Lostprophetzzz 1 month ago
@Lostprophetzzz I'll drink to that!
SlimyMarmot 1 month ago
Toegoff, I like you, but you are wrong. The best way to combat piracy is to build a better service then a pirate.
Steam and itunes are a great example of this.
joshrocks11 1 month ago
I think before you even consider these acts of "piracy" you need to consider what money is.
TheDevilsSon666 1 month ago
@TheDevilsSon666 Not sure how this comment makes any sense....I understand what money is. How does that change anything at all about piracy?
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff It changes it because of the simple fact that we shouldn't need some ridiculous bartering system that places other humans above each other. Have you ever looked at the way a fiat currency system works? Why can we not simply share knowledge? At the end of the day that's all SOPA is about (the restriction of). These are statements, not aggressive notion's or an attack or your opinions.
TheDevilsSon666 1 month ago
@TheDevilsSon666 Because knowledge is generally 'freely' shared. Entertainment is NOT. I can pretty easily learn almost anything I want to. Some will buy specific text or reference books because they tend to be better organized, but a quick trip to Wikipedia teaches me all I want to learn. Video games are (primarily) in the entertainment business. Currency frees us to make the choices we want by purchasing from the vendors we want.
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff Who decides whether a particular game is more for knowledge or entertainment? :) I partially disagree with the "video games are (primarily) in the entertainment business", that greatly depends on what games you play. And Wikipedia is for simple and a bit advanced questions, but if you decide to go a bit more deeper, you'll have to purchase not so cheap or really hard to get books.
MagicNash89 1 month ago
@MagicNash89 um...the writer/developer decides if they want to give it for free or not. Video games primarily are entertainment...that's what the 'game' part is. They can be educational, but most every video game has some level of entertainment. A currency system works because I'd like to know that if I dedicate my time and effort to doing a job (researching, writing, developing, etc) and other people will use my work, I'd like to be compensated for my time and effort.
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff "I'd like to be compensated for my time and effort." - and developers/etc. don't get compensated today with the present level of piracy? :) "They can be educational, but most every video game has some level of entertainment" - I agree, on the other hand books are (probably) primarily not entertainment, if you take all kinds into account, still they get hard to get or expensive, which hinders the free share of knowledge. Perhaps a lot more than in the video game industry.
MagicNash89 1 month ago
@Toegoff though I acknowledge, that books are different, still I believe there is some point in comparing them, because books are pirated as well. What I want to stress here is that by decreasing piracy through what can be called "repressive" means the level of free knowledge sharing will be crippled. Though hard to tell what sort and how deep of a negative influence will this generally have..
MagicNash89 1 month ago
@Toegoff thats ridiculous,you think wikipedia would have got where it is without a free internet to compile that information in the first place? it is sourced from thousands and thousands of books, and none of them get royalties for having their information on wikipedia. all these little indie games coming out lately likewise would never exist without piracy because probably 80% of developers were pirates before pro which is how they managed to get such understanding of the technology
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab like ive tried to make the point to you. dont try and judge what is good and bad because you dont know. we dont see all the variables in play. but we do KNOW that the entertainment industry is the biggest in the world. that games have overtaken hollywood, that indie games are successful now when they werent before. do you want to risk all that?
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab By asking people not to pirate games and take what they haven't earned? Yes I'm sure the second people take personal responsibility for their actions and choose to purchase products instead of stealing them the video game industry will crumble into the dirt. My argument has been make things like SOPA or PIPA unnecessary by showing self control and not taking what you haven't earned. Don't protest SOPA if you aren't will to be a legitimate customer
Toegoff 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab Wait...80% of indie developers were the people writing hacks to pirate games? Indie games are becoming more successful now thanks to things like Xbox Live Arcade and Steam which is allowing them to get more exposure. Don't pull numbers/facts out of your ass. Knowing how to hack game files does NOT help you better understand the coding, make you a better artist, musician, etc. Wikipedia also doesn't have to pay royalties because they don't plagiarize.
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff yeah toegoff see., i think its time you take your own medicine. i said "PROBABLY 80%" im not pretending to be a statistician, im conveying to you an idea.
wtf do YOU want? yes toegoff, indies are becoming popular because PEOPLE ARE BUYING THEM. CONGRATULATIONS! 95% of the world arent robbing lying scum who would cheat someone of their lifes work. is that such a fucking suprise to you? so considering that, WHAT is the point of your videos? what do you suggest?
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab Althoguh I generally don't agree with Toegoff, though he has some good points, I'd request you to be a bit more calm and "less Caps Lock" for the sake of the discussion - come on, arguments > any sort of hate speech :)
MagicNash89 1 month ago
@MagicNash89 well i would use italics but i cant
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab Well when you throw out stats and facts that are just plain silly, I feel like I have to counter them. Learning to write cracks for games has almost nothing to do with actually creating a game. And clearly, many people are still pirating. The point of the videos is to try to help people understand why it is a problem, who it is hurting, and providing another side to the piracy issue. Self control will make government control unnecessary
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff ive given you plenty of examples and made the point to you that you cant define bad from good. humans cant in general. this is what practically every religion teaches as its principle. you remember the little story i pm'd you? ive given you examples such as my own but youve ignored them: the only games ive brought recently have been pirated. i wouldnt buy a game i couldnt pirate first, with the economy and with inaccurate/biased reviews in mind. but instead i have brought games
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab and upgraded my system, supporting 2 industries at a time i wouldnt have supported either. my ability to, for example, download mw3, see it was crap, and spend my money on rock of ages instead. is actually important to the success of gaming to be able to do this. otherwise, because activision can BUY reviews from the likes of IGN, without piracy i would always end up buying the new mw3 and not the smaller, better, more creative games that deserve the money.
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab my ultimate point is that there are more variables than you can understand so stop trying to be a good guy that you think you should be because even good intentions can be dangerous. just late nature take its course..
and im out that really is my last comment here
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab Humans can generally define bad from good. It's called your conscience. Also...I assume you mean bought and not brought. Regardless, it's up to you to make your own decisions. I certainly can't force you to do anything. However, I think if you believe the only reason that indie gaming is successful is because of pirating, you are mistaken. Nature taking it's course will be things like SOPA. The government stepping in to protect intellectual property.
Toegoff 1 month ago
@Toegoff and where the hell do i suggest pirates are hackers? you seem confused dude. piracy has been integral to many indie devs because without it, they wouldnt have been able to envelope themselves with the content they enjoy, they would have never learned to code or be inspired to create their own games. and plaguarize? that couldnt be more invalid. do you know the meaning of the word? a straight copy cannot be plaguarism.
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab sorry pal i unsubbed. thats twice youve insulted me in as many days, the first time i corrected you and you couldnt bring yourself to apologise but neither to argue your point. now you insult me while not reading my post fully (again), and you do this between whining and bitching about other people replying before watching your entire video. sort it out, im off.
AndyMcNabStab 1 month ago
@AndyMcNabStab I read your comments but they make no sense. Do you know any indie developer that supports piracy? Do you know any developers at all? I'm not talking about not supporting SOPA - that's different. I'm talking about indie developers who support Piracy. And ... that is part of the definition of plagiarism. Plagiarism is either a direct copy or very close (without crediting the author).
Toegoff 1 month ago
@TheDevilsSon666
Stupid comment is Stupid.
acamp1995 1 month ago
I pirate 90% of the games that interest me and have no available demo.
Most of the time I end up playing for a couple of hours and never touch them again.
If they give me a long demo its like saying "we're confident of this product, if you buy it this is what you'll get"
If they don't give me a demo its like saying "we're not confident enough to show you the real gameplay, have a look at this edited trailer footage instead!"
I'm not taking the risk so i pirate :)
JTaneli 1 month ago
toegoff i try to listen but you are so arrogant, telling people that you dont think they understood your argument, and then asserting again that they havn't listened to you before replying. these people take time from their day to listen to you, and you speak to them like that.
AConcernedObserver 1 month ago
However that recommendation is based on my countries law where that is considered legal.
horusrage 1 month ago
A paranoid approach regarding those sites is preferable to being caught in violation of law.
I agree with Toegoff based on the fact that people have to have self control regarding piracy.
That being said though Toegoff I disagree with the approach that you can download something if it is unable to be obtained ... unable to obtain is still under copyright cover.
Best idea if you do aim to pirate ... is to use it for "Evaluation purposes" or get a trial of the product then pay for it later.
horusrage 1 month ago
There are many sites out there where you have to pay to download other peoples products. Those sites do contribute to the product owners based on their downloading as such there is no piracy involved as you are paying for it. That being said it is an option you can take but make certain you fully read any agreement if they are indemnifying themselves based on downloads.. then it is illegal to download from there.
horusrage 1 month ago
Yeah I am going to agree with the call "I cant afford it" excuse is a bullshit call. If you cannot afford something you do not deserve to have it.
You can always bargain shop later for the product or play someone else's copy on their computer.
horusrage 1 month ago
Ive downloaded games to try them out and almost always I buy them if the quality of the product is good. if it isn't I uninstall.
microwaveman123 1 month ago
Kevin you are right, piracy is never the answer. GOG is wonderful and other sites like it are more than welcome to be established.
Shyuin1 1 month ago
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microwaveman123 1 month ago
watch?v=lL5jq1TDiXQ&feature=related
Silent14411 1 month ago
NICE HAIRCUT HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA
INCsheep 1 month ago