Ritual and Worship at Knossos (Minoan Bronze Age)

[YamaKazoo]

hey LadyoftheLabyrinth.

Im reading a book by Boardman, griffan and murry (oxford uni) called Greece and the hellenistic world. It touchs briefly on the minoans and says they were a non indo-european people. Do you know any good books about the origin of Minoans ?

[LadyoftheLabyrinth]

@YamaKazoo Rodney Castleden is the best archeologist to also write really accessible and comprehensible books. I am not sure about the origin though, as far as I remember the first immigrants probably came mostly from Anatolia during the 7th century BC, and there are some Phoenician and Egyptian connections as well. It was clearly a meeting point and a melting pot of cultures and peoples for thousands of years.

[ActiveH1N1]

Reminds me of the Starbucks lady.....ummm Athena

[messiiironaldo]

so whats with all the dark skinned greeks? minoans almost look like polynesians, the way they dress and the hair.

[Northax]

@messiiironaldo Why are you so shocked that they are dark haired and darker skinned than what the lying Hollywood movies try to make people think original Greeks looked like? History is twisted by biased liars all the time, and many try to make others think that Greeks were all light haired and pale skinned, when the opposite is true by looking at the art they made of themselves! They tanned dark, not burned red in the sun like light featured Nordics do. Greeks were made to adapt to strong sun.

[Northax]

@messiiironaldo I think it's the same silly mindset that Hitler had of "lighter colored human is superior, thus created all modern civilization". That is faulty thinking, and those who adopt such idiocy are puzzled when they see the originators of modern civilization were of darker peoples to the south in Europe, Middle East and India.

[LadyoftheLabyrinth]

@messiiironaldo I think they painted themselves the way they looked - dark skinned and black haired. The women were painted with white skin and black hair - probably an artistic way of signializing gender. Men and female athletes dressed in loincloth or short skirts, and women had big skirts and shirts with spectacularly low cleavage. The Minoans wielded powerful cultural, linguistic and civlilizing influence on early Greek culture and the two co-existed for a long time.

[LadyoftheLabyrinth]

Labyrintho Potnia - a Linear B inscription at the temple of Knossos dating back to 1500 B.C, which actually says:" To the lady of the labyrinth, one jar of honey", as part of a list of offering - another offering goes to "the priestess of the winds". There is no doubt that this was a part of the Minoan culture,the language at the time was similar to Greek, possibly due to Mycenean influence on the island. From R. Castleden: Knossos - the Temple of the Goddess is not a controversial archaeologist

[DespinaKouros]

@Apollodorosh Oh!...and a friendly piece of advise...Socrates said: I only know one thing: that I don't know ANYTHING...So don't say you KNOW because you are a young student and you have too much life in front of you and millions of things to learn. Be modest and remember that measure is essential!!

[Apollodorosh]

@DespinaKouros In this discussion I have posed that there is no evidence to suggest the Minoans were Hellenes. As far as we know, they didn't speak Hellenic, they didn't follow Hellenic religion and customs, they didn't think Hellenic, etc. If they were then there is no evidence as of yet to suggest so. If evidence is ever found this was so, then so be it, but until further notice you have failed to produce any convincing argument to prove Minoans were Hellenes.

[DespinaKouros]

@Apollodorosh I didn't like the way you addressed me previously...You acted like a smartpants. So I won't go on this conversation any further. I prefer a more civilised attitude when talking about such serious subjects. Goodbye and good luck!!!

[Apollodorosh]

@DespinaKouros Seems we think the same of eachother. Farewell.

[Apollodorosh]

@DespinaKouros And if were gonna start quoting ancient Hellenic philosophers, here's another one “Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.” - Aristotélēs (384 BCE – 322 BCE).

[DespinaKouros]

@Apollodorosh I see you are entitled to your opinion in a stupborn, almost childish way...You don't read through the lines, you only wait for other to stop so you'll say what you want. I'm sorry sir but that will make you a lousy scientist!!! Just don't use wikipedia to enrich your knowledge, open some books!!! That would help a great deal!!!

[Apollodorosh]

@DespinaKouros I have asked for a good source on R.P. Charles, and you answer by calling ME childish and stubborn... You even managed to spell "stubborn" wrong...

[MysticTV777]

The Minoans HAD only one Goddess, the snake Goddess Diktynna, Rhea in her original Form... They also believed in Zeus, long before he became the All-God of Xenophanes (Source: E. O. James: Cult of the mother goddess.) The minoan religion survived in greek religion.

[37Dionysos]

Enjoyed this. BTW, "Potnia" IS a Minoan name according to world archaeology (for people who might bother to study any.) You can also find out a lot about the Minoans' lunar/solar calendar (and so about their spirituality, culture and history) at ANCIENT LIGHTS dot o-r-g

[LadyoftheLabyrinth]

@37Dionysos Thanks! :)



[jcstratis]

Varde and Liv Nome I will have to get more info on where to find them, terrific assemblage of images. The Boston chryselephantine snake priestess is considered a Knossos fake by George Antoniou - see AIA Archaeology January/February 2001 article by Kenneth D.S.Lapatin. Your music is fun with the images but I would love to find music that only utilizes the instruments of the Minoan period.

[jcstratis]

I noticed a few people have wondered what the music is, could you let us know?

[MrSupertypo]

I love this vids, thanx for posting :-)

[Apollodorosh]

O Gods not the Minoan matriarchy thing again... And where did you get Labyrinthos Potnia? The Minoans weren't Greeks you know... And it's certainly not proven they only had one monotheistic Goddess... I watched exactly one minute and already got fed up with it...

[LadyoftheLabyrinth]

@Apollodorosh I have actually not made any claims about Minoan matriarchy in this movie, nor about a monotheistic Goddess, these are your very own little conclusions. If you do not like a slideshow showing Minoan art, then do not watch it. Labyrinthos Potnia and Minoan language which was very similar to Greek may be read about in the highly esteemed archaeologist Rodney Castleden`s "Knossos - Temple of the Goddess" .

[Apollodorosh]

@LadyoftheLabyrinth "priestesses who led their island empire" Sound like matriarchy to me. BTW as an archaeology student I can tell you we have absolutely no idea whether the Minoans ever developped any kind of political unity. Let alone an "empire".

We know nothing of the Minoan language at all, as we can't read any of their writings, be it Linear A or Cretan Hieroglyphics. We know next to nothing of their culture, customs or religion.

[LadyoftheLabyrinth]

@Apollodorosh Yeah well discuss the topic of Minoan empire and priestess rule with mr.Castleden then.

[mightymissk]

@Apollodorosh There is ample archeological evidence of extensive Minoan trade, so much so as to approach industrial levels of production. There is compelling wall art of Minoan fleets at sea, clearly loaded with trade goods. Some ships are captioned by women. There is no evidence of warfare or invasion for hundreds of years. There is much evidence of economic prosperity. Also evidence of great spirituality. They covered their temples in frescoes of bare breasted priestesses. Why the disdain?

[Apollodorosh]

@mightymissk Yes there was a huge trade network the Minoans played a big part in. How would you know that art is in any way historical and not simply narrative? That the art only depicts myths instead of historical events? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Yes there was great economic prosperity, and spirituality, and the art (?historical?) shows bare-breasted women in important, seemingly ritual, roles.

[Apollodorosh]

@mightymissk Based on the evidence that is left, we can't say all that much about their culture or their religious beliefs and practices, their traditions, language, descent, political system, etc.

[DespinaKouros]

@Apollodorosh Minoans were Greeks just like Pontians, Ionians, Thracians, Epirotans e.t.c.. Straight your facts by reading books and not by watching Hollywood movies!!! This propostrous Anglo-Saxo propaganda representing Crete seperated from Greece is out of topic and very dangerous!!! Don't be a part of it...

[Apollodorosh]

@DespinaKouros The remains we have of the Minoan culture are profoundly different from what we have from the Mycenaean culture on the Hellenic mainland. The Mycenaean civilisation is one we know to be Hellenic from Linear B-tablets. Our knowledge of that doesn't help us one bit in deciphering Minoan Linear A. They are Hellenes only in that they lived on an island that is part of modern Hellas. And Thracians weren't Hellenes, they were barbarians, until they became thoroughly Hellenised.

[DespinaKouros]

@Apollodorosh The Anthropologists Aris Poulianos and R.P.Charles has proven the relativity between Minoans and the rest of Hellenes...I think you need to search more before you jump to any conclusion. And don't forget that nowadays the history can be overwritten...If you have the money and certain political interests...everything is possible! Then that's not history. It's propaganda...Good luck on your search...

[Apollodorosh]

@DespinaKouros Falsifying history is hardly a new thing... It happened throughout history. And I've done a little check on this Poulianos, and he claims to have found a Homo erectus tibia from 11 million years ago. So forgive me for not really deeming him trustworthy... And I agree most likely modern Hellenic populations are of mixed immigrant and Aegean stock... with just as much admixture of Slavs and Turks... Does that make all these people the same? Ethnicity is beyond blood you know.

[DespinaKouros]

@Apollodorosh i've seen you have done some research about Poulianos but none about R.P.Charles...Any specific reason why??? Too convenient don't you think? Archeology is not the only science that can give answer for those subjects. It needs a combination of sciences to reach (as much as possible) to the truth...And most of all...time...Good luck again!!!

[Apollodorosh]

@DespinaKouros I couldn't find anything about R.P. Charles, so perhaps you could give me a website to check up on him?

I'm an archaeology student. I KNOW what archaeology is, and it is perhaps one of the most interdisciplinary sciences out there. And I never saw anything to suggest the Minoans where themselves Hellenes.

[Kenshiroit]

@Apollodorosh I agree, the supposition that minoians were hellenes or hellenic is also kinda new to me.

[TheArtistdancer]

Hello. you did a beautiful job creativley weaving ancient music with the ancient Minoan civ. I am a dancer and artist and am greatly influenced by this era . Thank you for a visual and imaginative lesson .

[pitotipp]

I do not think that the Minoan civilization is so old, how the official archaeologists says, there are a some evidence to contradict this !

[37Dionysos]

Check out the latest evidences of a very sophisticated Minoan lunar/solar calendar at ANCIENTLIGHTS dot O R G

[GaussTruth]

Excellent! Very evocative and emotive. I didn't even know there were that many Minoan artifacts in existence of the people of that culture, so much seems to be hidden. Makes me long for that mysterious and forgotten so long ago time and place. I was fascinated my the statute of the Boston Goddess at 2:20, don't think I have ever seen such a life-like figurine from that early of a period.......

[GaussTruth]

..... It is to bad that the display of the images could not have been chronologicalized, with the date ( as best as good be determined, of course ) in the corner. Also, I noticed the clothing at 4:20 & 6:40 seems very resemblant of clothing worn in Sumeria perhaps some 500 years earlier, maybe just a coincidence.

[LadyoftheLabyrinth]

@GaussTruth Hi! All the images are taken from the 1921 six-volume "Palace of Minos" by the first leader of excavations at Knossos, sir Arthur Evans, where I believe he collected photographs and illustrations of the entire dig. The work is thousands of pages long, each volume is huge. I found his work in the Oslo University Library and photographed as many images as I could. I suspect a lot of the finds pictured in his work are now in private collections, scattered around the world.

[GaussTruth]

@LadyoftheLabyrinth

Just Terrific work, I am fascinated by it.

This stuff is my escape, as a matter of fact, ancient history escapism is my relief valve

from the everyday World, thanks.

[Kenshiroit]

what is the soundtrack?

[LadyoftheLabyrinth]

@Kenshiroit The music is Varde, look up on myspace (Varde01 after the myspace address. Could not paste the link into this comment)

[Kenshiroit]

@LadyoftheLabyrinth thanx :-)

[munkdo3]

crazy music!!

[jsgamgee]

speculative



[UnoRaza]

Some time ago an article was read that said the original HEBREW temple leaders were "powerful women". Priestesses that were sacked at one point when things were switched to patriarchal.

If you happen to know if this is true and could let me know that would be great!

[ie. By references from other cultures.]

The symbolic commonalities from one end of the globe to the other are quite amazing!

[LadyoftheLabyrinth]

@UnoRaza There is a lot of literature on that subject, and the widespread worship of a Great Goddess among the common Hebrew populace is even recorded in the old Testament although there condemned. I can claim no expertise though. You may want to look up Shekinah, Ashtoreth, The Queen of Heaven, Ashera..

[unoriginalson]

Cool music!  Who's the composer/artist?

[unoriginalson]

nvm, just saw in the description.

[teb70]

Oj oj oj. Så gøy Maria:) kjempefin... oppdaget ikke før nå! Klem og grattis....

Liv