Re all this talk of annexation: it's worth noting that the acts which annexed Wales to England have been repealed, and have no outstanding effects. Wales remains a country within a country, but it is it's own country now.
Gwyn Thomas GUSHES that he's an internationalist.
But to be an internationalist you have to be first a nation and Wales is a subservient nation to England and will always be subservient and inferior unless the Welsh people have some self respect like every other nation in the world and vote for independence.
@Bluemax1945 Rubbish. By any definition Wales is a nation, and it is of equal status with England. Both are constituent countries of the UK. Both were conquered by the same aristocracy, both overcame the conquest and endured, both are still here today each with their own traditions and culture. I find belittling any nation as you are to be abhorrent.
@grandslam1998 wales was all but conquered by 1282...1536 act of union was just a way of the landed gentry in Wales to make more money...as a socialist you should be aware of this.....to this day over 50% of Wales still owned by large landowners of norman ancestry.............sounds like insanity to you valley folk but near me we have all big posh estates
@Apemanwithcalculator Wales was anexed becacause the Welsh kept raiding the Marches. Also the English crown did not want France and Spain to get a foot hold in Wales Plus it was the start of empire building by the English who needed extra gold.
Actually Lyndon666 I beg to disagree. Wales' finest exports are her wit, intelligence, courage, passion and perseverence. These are all qualities that define Gwyn Thomas and make him such a noble ambassador for our great and noble country.
Speaking the two languages of Wales enriches one's experience of the country. GT was part of a generation that became arrogant through its linguistic experience, seeing the decline of Welsh in Darwinian terms as it perceived society developing in the linear model favoured by Marxists & socialists. But culture doesn't proceed in a linear fashion, e.g. the increasing demand now for Welsh medium education. With hindsight GT's attack on nationalist defensiveness now itself appears somewhat 'ironic'.
GT was first and foremost "A Valley Boy" It made and shaped him. The main language was English and he embraced it with great talent. The Dragon has two tongues and each has its part to play in making Wales a vibrant forward looking country. Welsh v English! It's not a competition!
"The English speaking world is central to the future happiness or future misery of mankind"
That's a funny kind of internationalism he has there. You are free, to speak as we tell you. This is the last gasp of the imperial ambitions of Britain, and I'm glad that this kind of nonsense is not acceptable these days. He was an eloquent man, for sure, but he was totally wrong in denying the legitimacy of the Welsh language as a language of day to day life.
The welsh have never been nationalist in the true european 1800s sense.
Gwyn Thomas' views are fine but the welsh are a small segment and most english have not been sharing the same view.
Seems rather naive, thethe biggest bully always wins. By all means be internationalist and explore outer and inner space forever more but do its when its best for your area as many parts of the World ARE FAR more nationalistic than welsh have ever been, a few cottages burnt is nothing compared to huge genocide
Bilingualism delays the onset of demnetia and alzheimers...I am afriad this interview is from another age, where welsh ppl hated themselves....my great grand relatives didnt keenly pass on welsh language and now I am having to relearn AND I AM LOVING IT diolch yn fawr iawn
I'm sorry but your facts are just wrong. S4C is one of the most heavily susidised channels on earth. It received over 94 million of funding in 2007 from the uk gov and a leaked report in March 2010 showed that in one month 196 of its 890 programmes were watched by zero viewers. What a gigantic waste of Welsh talent and what a squandered opportunity. It is watched by just 2.7% of people in Wales. If you want to debate with statistics get your facts straight.
@GwynThomasWales I'm sure the viewing figures for BBC Wales, ITV Wales would also stand up to your keen scrutiny...
The 'zero' viewers argument has been thoroughly debated by the Welsh Affairs Select committe, and finally discredited. The fact of the matter is that S4C and BBC Wales are the definition of public service broadcasting: they fill a gap that would never be filled if left to the market. Welsh broadcasting in both languages is essential for democracy and the representation of Wales.
@nwdls I agree with you that S4C and BBC Wales fill a gap that would never be filled if left to the market. This fact alone speaks volumes about the importance of the language in Wales today. Whether we like it or not, Welsh language broadcasting cannot survive without huge Government grants (£94m in 2007) because it does not generate enough advertising revenue to make it profitable. I'm all for people learning and speaking Welsh but is this really the best use of tax payers money?
this guy is very simplistic and polarisng ,you can speak two languages or three or four ,theres no reason why one language has to be at the detriment of another.he was of his time=with a slight strange inferiority complex
I think GT would be the first to agree that bilingualism is a great thing if it enables you to communicate with more people more easily. GT was a passionate Welshman who loved his country and her people. Since the entire population of Wales also speaks English, his "simplistic" argument is that it would be better for Wales if we expressed our national identity, culture and genius to the whole world instead of keeping it to ourselves. Not a PC view today but a profound one nonetheless.
@GwynThomasWales i dont really get your point ,or his,we allready express our national identity, culture and genius to the whole world,the fact we have two languages makes it double the impact. , we keep our culture to ourselves and sell it to the world at the same time.there is no issue or argument ! this is a non issue {p.s =just to be anal,around 4% of wales dont speak english;mostly kids and the elderly..}
I respect your opinion, but I don't believe this is a non issue. Wales spends millions of pounds each year preserving the Welsh language (S4C, bilingual forms, road signs etc). If 4% of the Welsh population really can't speak the national language of the UK, and the recognised first language of the international community then we should all hang our heads in shame. If 96% of us can communicate perfectly well without Welsh, could the millions spent on Welsh be put to better use elsewhere?
@GwynThomasWales oh my god!! what the hell are u taking about? welsh and english are official languages of wales,there is no problem here at all.its been proven that bilinguaism improves learning and ability.a country that doesnt have more than one language is the exeption.welsh i should remind you is also an official language of the uk as well as wales.
@chrisjoneschrisjones your economic argumnet is as ridicilous as your general point.s4c for example contributes 80 million to the welsh economy and 2500 jobs,welsh media is a massive contributor to the welsh economy.the language is also a massive contributer to the tourism industry etc etc.no one is forcing u to speak welsh but it sounds to me like u want to kill off one of the national languages of your own country altogether ? your argument is simplistic ,naiive and antiquated
His view is comparatively rare these days. There's no dichotomy between "the march for international awareness" and fully embracing Welsh identity, including the Welsh language. Gwyn Thomas' parents and some siblings spoke Welsh, but the parents opted not to pass it on to young Gwyn, who later likened it to a "geological fault". When a whole nation experiences this discontinuity it's kind of traumatic. Because there is nothing like listening to Welsh in Dinas Mawddwy. People contain universes.
As the world changes there is more passion for people to retain their historic identities. I'm a Yorkshireman, but It's obvious why the Welsh language has be retained, it is an importance part your of heritage. Obviously it's good to be fluent in English as well, as it is a universal language due to the dominance of America. Despite the best efforts to fully revive Cumbraic in northern England, it has been near impossible as the language has been dead for so long. This must not to happen Welsh
Eh? What about the hundreds of thousands of people living in Wales who share his views? Are they worth an articulate reply? Gwyn Thomas was RIGHT. Wew should be breaking down language barriers - not putting them up. If people want to learn Welsh then that's great - but should we really be pouring millions of pounds into subsiding a dead language when hospitals and schools are closing? Aren't there better ways to celebrate our great national identify and cultural tradtions?
@DocMagister What Culture do we have that's more important than the Welsh language? I grew up in a home that only speaks Welsh, in a welsh speaking community and was educated from 3-21 years of age. Is that a dead language then?
Gwyn is speaking total sense - the World drowns, but fair play, we will do our best to remember the lost laguage spoken all over Btritain before, about, 500AD.
Many say because he was bullied and taunted (for being a son of an poor minner/ Welsh) when he went to the Uni in England - bein degraded affected his personal vews a speakin Welsh, i dnt knw but, i would also share that opinion myself.
I love Gwyn Thomas, the way he speaks... filled with so much colour/passion/power and culture, a true Welsh personality. I often get carried away on the magical round about that is Gwyn Thomas words. And find myself (as a young Welsh person) caught up in what he tells me his life was like growing up in Wales... as it is now part of my Welsh history.
Yet... though this man is a legend!!! in his own right, this is the one and only think many many pplz of Wales disagree on with him.
I must also respectfully disagree with your statement that speaking Welsh does not isolate you from the English speaking world. It does. It puts up a barrier to communication that doesn't have to be there. The point that Gwyn Thomas was making in this video is that we are nation of great creativity and genius (I'm sure we can both agree on that) but that when we choose to express ouselves in Welsh, we deny the English speaking world the opportunity to recognise and appreciate our great talent.
I'm afraid we'll have to continue to disagree with each other on this point. :)
Consider individuals like Bryn Terfel and Katherine Jenkins, and bands like the Super Furry Animals. All are fluent in Welsh (and have often performed in Welsh), but that hasn't been a barrier for them. I'd argue they've been every bit as influential on Welsh culture Wales' international image as other artists who are English monoglots.
Of course, there'll always be people who have no ambition to express themselves in English, but I'd say they're comparatively few. In any case, it isn't the language that is the barrier here - it is their own preference for it. Besides, I doubt that figures like Dafydd Iwan, talented and inspiring though he may be, would be widely appreciated outside Wales.
Thank you ColonelClegMcLeg for your intelligent, considered and thoughtful reply to my original question. Whilst I would defend to my dying breath the right of any person to learn Welsh if they wished to do so, I do object to the millions that are spent on promoting the Welsh language each year when English is already spoken by 100% of the population. I believe that the money spent fostering a culture of bilingualism could be better spent on better schools, hospitals and services.
With respect sir, you haven't answered my original question. All you have done is accuse me of arrogance and ignorance. I have the greatest respect for anyone who wants to learn any language that will enable them to communicate with people they couldn't speak to before. Howeve, learning Welsh does not enable you to do this and yet we spend millions promoting it. In what way do we gain from this? Please try to answer this simple queston without accusing me of ignorance and arrogance.
I'm coming into this debate as a Welshman whose first language is English, but who learned Welsh as a second language through a Welsh medium education. You ask what we gain from promoting the Welsh language? In terms of benefits that you can reach out and grasp, probably not very much. But I honestly believe that learning Welsh has had profound benefits for myself, and, no doubt, for many other speakers across the world.
For instance, being able to read and write Welsh opens up a wealth of literature and music, that otherwise is impossible to understand if you have no knowledge of Welsh. Furthermore, it allows you to see the world differently, as do all languages. There are concepts that exist within the Welsh psyche and language that have not entered English - "hiraeth", for example, a deep connection between you and the land you love that goes far beyond the nearest equivalent word in English - homesickness.
As has already been mentioned, being bilingual helps with learning other languages, although I myself have not learned a third language. It also opens up new opportunities in the future. A Welsh speaker interested in journalism could aim to start a career at S4C, and singers and musicians have the springboard of the Eisteddfodau to reach greater fame.
Being able to speak Welsh does not "isolate" you from the English-speaking world, and I can speak from personal experience that it is most certainly not detrimental to be able to communicate in more than one language, even if that second language may not enable you to communicate with many people with whom you wouldn't have been able to have a conversation with before. There are many good reasons for learning Welsh, and many good reasons to promote it.
Make the effort and respect us please. I`m tired of you type of guys thinking that your better than us for just speaking English. We are not losing out by being able to speak Welsh, we are gaining for IT!!
This is not about Heritage, Culture and any crap sir. Its about the 21 century!!! Are you saying only Patagonians, Native Welsh should learn a second language?? Ok I persume your a Unoinist and support England in everything but sir can you understand the anguish I get from people like you who think Welsh is a second class language! Its the 21century and Wales is being rebuild with Blachder (Pride) in its exsistance.
Ok I hope my answer is understandable to you. You say that you have lived in Wales all your life and you can communicate with everyone by just speaking English. What a typical answer from someone who`s trying to justify his arrogance and ignrance to not learn. All your life you`ve lived in Cymru and you didnt even bother (this is the impression I`m getting).
May I respectfully ask you why it is every Welsh persons duty to learn the Welsh language? I have lived in Wales all my life and I can communicate with everyone by speaking English. Since the purpose of learning Welsh is obviously not to communicate with people you couldn't speak to before, please tell me the purpose of doing so? And don't giveme any crap about preserving our great Welsh heritage and culture. You can't do that by making yoursef unintelligable the rest of world.
I can already communicate fluently with 100% of the Welsh population by speaking English. So the purpose of learning and speaking Welsh is clearly not to communicate with people you couldn't speak to before. So what is it for? Why do we spend millions fostering a culture of bilingualism when we are closing hospitals and schools for lack of funds? Why do you declare that Gwyn Thomas is not a "proper" Welshman simply because he wanted the world to understand what we were saying to each other?
Thomas believed that Wales will achieve far more on the internatinal stage by comminicating in the language spoken by the great majority of the word. It's not rocket science. The fact that you write in English proves the point that Thomas was making here. He was a great Welshman and a genius too.
But there is nothing wrong with speaking multiple languages, the phsyke that You only need English is bollocks, excusing the vast mojority of Welsh people from true Welsh culture that's what his ideologies were, I speak Welsh and can also speak another 4 languages fluently, that's what speaking two languages does, Internationally on what part? Can you speak multiple langauges? its proven that bilingual people learn other languages faster. Not a Welshman in my eyes.
Of course there's nothing wrong with speaking multiple languages. Gwyn Thomas hmself taught Spanish and French for years so he presumably could also see the value of learning multiple languages. I speak two myself. I have lived in Wales all my life and have not yet met a single Welsh speaker who couldn't also speak English. I don't need to learn Welsh to appreciate the richness of Welsh culture and identity. Surely the purpose of language is to communicate, not to isolate.
Isolate? .Like you said all welsh speakers speak two languages, which is more than most English only speakers. So your telling me when you see welsh placenames, when you here welsh spoken on the street in the shops on signs, it doesnt intruge you?, I see Wales with eyes, Welsh and English you only see Wales with one Eye. You choose to isolate yourself, just because I speak Welsh doesn't automatically mean I wish to isolate anyone, ,Like I said I speak both languages of this country, you dont,
I can already communicate fluently with 100% of the Welsh population by speaking English. So the purpose of learning and speaking Welsh is clearly not to communicate with people you couldn't speak to before. So what is it for? Why do we spend millions fostering a culture of bilingualism when we are closing hospitals and schools for lack of funds? Why do you declare that Gwyn Thomas is not a "proper" Welshman simply because he wanted the world to understand what we were saying to each other?
Re all this talk of annexation: it's worth noting that the acts which annexed Wales to England have been repealed, and have no outstanding effects. Wales remains a country within a country, but it is it's own country now.
ColonelClegMcLeg 14 hours ago
Gwyn Thomas GUSHES that he's an internationalist.
But to be an internationalist you have to be first a nation and Wales is a subservient nation to England and will always be subservient and inferior unless the Welsh people have some self respect like every other nation in the world and vote for independence.
Bluemax1945 2 months ago
@Bluemax1945 Rubbish. By any definition Wales is a nation, and it is of equal status with England. Both are constituent countries of the UK. Both were conquered by the same aristocracy, both overcame the conquest and endured, both are still here today each with their own traditions and culture. I find belittling any nation as you are to be abhorrent.
ColonelClegMcLeg 14 hours ago
@Taiginator Wales was annexed by England in the 15 hundreds. Wales is a part of of the UK of GB and NI. We are a country within a country.
grandslam1998 5 months ago
@grandslam1998 wales was all but conquered by 1282...1536 act of union was just a way of the landed gentry in Wales to make more money...as a socialist you should be aware of this.....to this day over 50% of Wales still owned by large landowners of norman ancestry.............sounds like insanity to you valley folk but near me we have all big posh estates
Apemanwithcalculator 5 months ago
@Apemanwithcalculator Wales was anexed becacause the Welsh kept raiding the Marches. Also the English crown did not want France and Spain to get a foot hold in Wales Plus it was the start of empire building by the English who needed extra gold.
grandslam1998 4 months ago
@grandslam1998
The English? It was the Normans who annexed Wales not the English.
HarryBodensson 16 hours ago
@HarryBodensson The Normans did have power in Wales but Wales was finally annexed by Henry the 8th of England in 1536 and 1543 by the Acts of Union.
grandslam1998 15 hours ago
Just another Uncle Thom(as). Wales has had three great exports: lamb, coal and traitors.
lyndon666 6 months ago
Actually Lyndon666 I beg to disagree. Wales' finest exports are her wit, intelligence, courage, passion and perseverence. These are all qualities that define Gwyn Thomas and make him such a noble ambassador for our great and noble country.
DocMagister 6 months ago
Speaking the two languages of Wales enriches one's experience of the country. GT was part of a generation that became arrogant through its linguistic experience, seeing the decline of Welsh in Darwinian terms as it perceived society developing in the linear model favoured by Marxists & socialists. But culture doesn't proceed in a linear fashion, e.g. the increasing demand now for Welsh medium education. With hindsight GT's attack on nationalist defensiveness now itself appears somewhat 'ironic'.
Deandwl 6 months ago
GT was first and foremost "A Valley Boy" It made and shaped him. The main language was English and he embraced it with great talent. The Dragon has two tongues and each has its part to play in making Wales a vibrant forward looking country. Welsh v English! It's not a competition!
grandslam1998 6 months ago
"The English speaking world is central to the future happiness or future misery of mankind"
That's a funny kind of internationalism he has there. You are free, to speak as we tell you. This is the last gasp of the imperial ambitions of Britain, and I'm glad that this kind of nonsense is not acceptable these days. He was an eloquent man, for sure, but he was totally wrong in denying the legitimacy of the Welsh language as a language of day to day life.
nwdls 9 months ago 2
The welsh have never been nationalist in the true european 1800s sense.
Gwyn Thomas' views are fine but the welsh are a small segment and most english have not been sharing the same view.
Seems rather naive, thethe biggest bully always wins. By all means be internationalist and explore outer and inner space forever more but do its when its best for your area as many parts of the World ARE FAR more nationalistic than welsh have ever been, a few cottages burnt is nothing compared to huge genocide
3tangle3 9 months ago
Bilingualism delays the onset of demnetia and alzheimers...I am afriad this interview is from another age, where welsh ppl hated themselves....my great grand relatives didnt keenly pass on welsh language and now I am having to relearn AND I AM LOVING IT diolch yn fawr iawn
3tangle3 9 months ago
Comment removed
DaiDempsey 1 year ago
Comment removed
DaiDempsey 1 year ago
I'm sorry but your facts are just wrong. S4C is one of the most heavily susidised channels on earth. It received over 94 million of funding in 2007 from the uk gov and a leaked report in March 2010 showed that in one month 196 of its 890 programmes were watched by zero viewers. What a gigantic waste of Welsh talent and what a squandered opportunity. It is watched by just 2.7% of people in Wales. If you want to debate with statistics get your facts straight.
GwynThomasWales 1 year ago
@GwynThomasWales I'm sure the viewing figures for BBC Wales, ITV Wales would also stand up to your keen scrutiny...
The 'zero' viewers argument has been thoroughly debated by the Welsh Affairs Select committe, and finally discredited. The fact of the matter is that S4C and BBC Wales are the definition of public service broadcasting: they fill a gap that would never be filled if left to the market. Welsh broadcasting in both languages is essential for democracy and the representation of Wales.
nwdls 9 months ago
@nwdls I agree with you that S4C and BBC Wales fill a gap that would never be filled if left to the market. This fact alone speaks volumes about the importance of the language in Wales today. Whether we like it or not, Welsh language broadcasting cannot survive without huge Government grants (£94m in 2007) because it does not generate enough advertising revenue to make it profitable. I'm all for people learning and speaking Welsh but is this really the best use of tax payers money?
GwynThomasWales 9 months ago
this guy is very simplistic and polarisng ,you can speak two languages or three or four ,theres no reason why one language has to be at the detriment of another.he was of his time=with a slight strange inferiority complex
chrisjoneschrisjones 1 year ago
I think GT would be the first to agree that bilingualism is a great thing if it enables you to communicate with more people more easily. GT was a passionate Welshman who loved his country and her people. Since the entire population of Wales also speaks English, his "simplistic" argument is that it would be better for Wales if we expressed our national identity, culture and genius to the whole world instead of keeping it to ourselves. Not a PC view today but a profound one nonetheless.
GwynThomasWales 1 year ago
@GwynThomasWales i dont really get your point ,or his,we allready express our national identity, culture and genius to the whole world,the fact we have two languages makes it double the impact. , we keep our culture to ourselves and sell it to the world at the same time.there is no issue or argument ! this is a non issue {p.s =just to be anal,around 4% of wales dont speak english;mostly kids and the elderly..}
chrisjoneschrisjones 1 year ago
I respect your opinion, but I don't believe this is a non issue. Wales spends millions of pounds each year preserving the Welsh language (S4C, bilingual forms, road signs etc). If 4% of the Welsh population really can't speak the national language of the UK, and the recognised first language of the international community then we should all hang our heads in shame. If 96% of us can communicate perfectly well without Welsh, could the millions spent on Welsh be put to better use elsewhere?
GwynThomasWales 1 year ago
@GwynThomasWales oh my god!! what the hell are u taking about? welsh and english are official languages of wales,there is no problem here at all.its been proven that bilinguaism improves learning and ability.a country that doesnt have more than one language is the exeption.welsh i should remind you is also an official language of the uk as well as wales.
chrisjoneschrisjones 1 year ago
@chrisjoneschrisjones welsh is part of the true british language branch...many south east walians dont see the hypocrisy :(
3tangle3 9 months ago
@chrisjoneschrisjones your economic argumnet is as ridicilous as your general point.s4c for example contributes 80 million to the welsh economy and 2500 jobs,welsh media is a massive contributor to the welsh economy.the language is also a massive contributer to the tourism industry etc etc.no one is forcing u to speak welsh but it sounds to me like u want to kill off one of the national languages of your own country altogether ? your argument is simplistic ,naiive and antiquated
chrisjoneschrisjones 1 year ago
dwin casau lloegr.
chrisford82 1 year ago
His view is comparatively rare these days. There's no dichotomy between "the march for international awareness" and fully embracing Welsh identity, including the Welsh language. Gwyn Thomas' parents and some siblings spoke Welsh, but the parents opted not to pass it on to young Gwyn, who later likened it to a "geological fault". When a whole nation experiences this discontinuity it's kind of traumatic. Because there is nothing like listening to Welsh in Dinas Mawddwy. People contain universes.
quixoticquisling 1 year ago 2
im english, my old man is welsh and i study in wales, fink its a great language, if i was raised in wales i wuld want to be able to speak it
TheCHECKHOOK 1 year ago
Dwin deallt be mae o yn trio deud
BooMers232 1 year ago
As the world changes there is more passion for people to retain their historic identities. I'm a Yorkshireman, but It's obvious why the Welsh language has be retained, it is an importance part your of heritage. Obviously it's good to be fluent in English as well, as it is a universal language due to the dominance of America. Despite the best efforts to fully revive Cumbraic in northern England, it has been near impossible as the language has been dead for so long. This must not to happen Welsh
ALBIONTYKE 1 year ago
Too late to write an articulate reply to a man who's dead anyway, but he's talking a load of bollocks here.
garynysmon 1 year ago
Eh? What about the hundreds of thousands of people living in Wales who share his views? Are they worth an articulate reply? Gwyn Thomas was RIGHT. Wew should be breaking down language barriers - not putting them up. If people want to learn Welsh then that's great - but should we really be pouring millions of pounds into subsiding a dead language when hospitals and schools are closing? Aren't there better ways to celebrate our great national identify and cultural tradtions?
DocMagister 1 year ago
@DocMagister What Culture do we have that's more important than the Welsh language? I grew up in a home that only speaks Welsh, in a welsh speaking community and was educated from 3-21 years of age. Is that a dead language then?
garynysmon 1 year ago
@garynysmon You grew up on Ynys Mon Gary. That wasn't culture. It was inadequate transport links.
markadamdavies 1 year ago
And your point, Gwyn, is .......? My 1st lang is Welsh but can talk to someone in London NY Melbourne etc just as well as you.
(And Paris, Warsaw & Madrid, but now I'm just showing off)
dimgwalltameiben 1 year ago
@dimgwalltameiben Good grief. There are 52 videos of Gwyn Thomas on You Tube. You’d only need to click on one to see how preposterous this comment is
markadamdavies 1 year ago
Ey?
closertofiftythanyew 1 year ago
Gwyn is speaking total sense - the World drowns, but fair play, we will do our best to remember the lost laguage spoken all over Btritain before, about, 500AD.
closertofiftythanyew 1 year ago
Many say because he was bullied and taunted (for being a son of an poor minner/ Welsh) when he went to the Uni in England - bein degraded affected his personal vews a speakin Welsh, i dnt knw but, i would also share that opinion myself.
TheMyVew 2 years ago
I love Gwyn Thomas, the way he speaks... filled with so much colour/passion/power and culture, a true Welsh personality. I often get carried away on the magical round about that is Gwyn Thomas words. And find myself (as a young Welsh person) caught up in what he tells me his life was like growing up in Wales... as it is now part of my Welsh history.
Yet... though this man is a legend!!! in his own right, this is the one and only think many many pplz of Wales disagree on with him.
TheMyVew 2 years ago
I must also respectfully disagree with your statement that speaking Welsh does not isolate you from the English speaking world. It does. It puts up a barrier to communication that doesn't have to be there. The point that Gwyn Thomas was making in this video is that we are nation of great creativity and genius (I'm sure we can both agree on that) but that when we choose to express ouselves in Welsh, we deny the English speaking world the opportunity to recognise and appreciate our great talent.
DocMagister 2 years ago
I'm afraid we'll have to continue to disagree with each other on this point. :)
Consider individuals like Bryn Terfel and Katherine Jenkins, and bands like the Super Furry Animals. All are fluent in Welsh (and have often performed in Welsh), but that hasn't been a barrier for them. I'd argue they've been every bit as influential on Welsh culture Wales' international image as other artists who are English monoglots.
ColonelClegMcLeg 2 years ago 2
Of course, there'll always be people who have no ambition to express themselves in English, but I'd say they're comparatively few. In any case, it isn't the language that is the barrier here - it is their own preference for it. Besides, I doubt that figures like Dafydd Iwan, talented and inspiring though he may be, would be widely appreciated outside Wales.
ColonelClegMcLeg 2 years ago
Thank you ColonelClegMcLeg for your intelligent, considered and thoughtful reply to my original question. Whilst I would defend to my dying breath the right of any person to learn Welsh if they wished to do so, I do object to the millions that are spent on promoting the Welsh language each year when English is already spoken by 100% of the population. I believe that the money spent fostering a culture of bilingualism could be better spent on better schools, hospitals and services.
DocMagister 2 years ago
With respect sir, you haven't answered my original question. All you have done is accuse me of arrogance and ignorance. I have the greatest respect for anyone who wants to learn any language that will enable them to communicate with people they couldn't speak to before. Howeve, learning Welsh does not enable you to do this and yet we spend millions promoting it. In what way do we gain from this? Please try to answer this simple queston without accusing me of ignorance and arrogance.
DocMagister 2 years ago
I'm coming into this debate as a Welshman whose first language is English, but who learned Welsh as a second language through a Welsh medium education. You ask what we gain from promoting the Welsh language? In terms of benefits that you can reach out and grasp, probably not very much. But I honestly believe that learning Welsh has had profound benefits for myself, and, no doubt, for many other speakers across the world.
ColonelClegMcLeg 2 years ago 2
For instance, being able to read and write Welsh opens up a wealth of literature and music, that otherwise is impossible to understand if you have no knowledge of Welsh. Furthermore, it allows you to see the world differently, as do all languages. There are concepts that exist within the Welsh psyche and language that have not entered English - "hiraeth", for example, a deep connection between you and the land you love that goes far beyond the nearest equivalent word in English - homesickness.
ColonelClegMcLeg 2 years ago 2
As has already been mentioned, being bilingual helps with learning other languages, although I myself have not learned a third language. It also opens up new opportunities in the future. A Welsh speaker interested in journalism could aim to start a career at S4C, and singers and musicians have the springboard of the Eisteddfodau to reach greater fame.
ColonelClegMcLeg 2 years ago
Being able to speak Welsh does not "isolate" you from the English-speaking world, and I can speak from personal experience that it is most certainly not detrimental to be able to communicate in more than one language, even if that second language may not enable you to communicate with many people with whom you wouldn't have been able to have a conversation with before. There are many good reasons for learning Welsh, and many good reasons to promote it.
ColonelClegMcLeg 2 years ago 4
@ColonelClegMcLeg Well said butty.
grandslam1998 15 hours ago
Make the effort and respect us please. I`m tired of you type of guys thinking that your better than us for just speaking English. We are not losing out by being able to speak Welsh, we are gaining for IT!!
arian1945 2 years ago
This is not about Heritage, Culture and any crap sir. Its about the 21 century!!! Are you saying only Patagonians, Native Welsh should learn a second language?? Ok I persume your a Unoinist and support England in everything but sir can you understand the anguish I get from people like you who think Welsh is a second class language! Its the 21century and Wales is being rebuild with Blachder (Pride) in its exsistance.
arian1945 2 years ago
Ok I hope my answer is understandable to you. You say that you have lived in Wales all your life and you can communicate with everyone by just speaking English. What a typical answer from someone who`s trying to justify his arrogance and ignrance to not learn. All your life you`ve lived in Cymru and you didnt even bother (this is the impression I`m getting).
arian1945 2 years ago 6
Ignorance in its full!! Bradwr!!
What on earth is this guy on about. Language is the heart and soul of any country..
I wasnt asked to be taught in English. Its every Welsh perons duty to learn the language.
And dont give me this crap "oh its to hard" and "I havent got the time". Rubbish there are Poles and Indians in my town and they have learnt Welsh.
arian1945 2 years ago
May I respectfully ask you why it is every Welsh persons duty to learn the Welsh language? I have lived in Wales all my life and I can communicate with everyone by speaking English. Since the purpose of learning Welsh is obviously not to communicate with people you couldn't speak to before, please tell me the purpose of doing so? And don't giveme any crap about preserving our great Welsh heritage and culture. You can't do that by making yoursef unintelligable the rest of world.
DocMagister 2 years ago
I can already communicate fluently with 100% of the Welsh population by speaking English. So the purpose of learning and speaking Welsh is clearly not to communicate with people you couldn't speak to before. So what is it for? Why do we spend millions fostering a culture of bilingualism when we are closing hospitals and schools for lack of funds? Why do you declare that Gwyn Thomas is not a "proper" Welshman simply because he wanted the world to understand what we were saying to each other?
DocMagister 2 years ago
Shame to call him Welsh!
adamjones416 2 years ago
Thomas believed that Wales will achieve far more on the internatinal stage by comminicating in the language spoken by the great majority of the word. It's not rocket science. The fact that you write in English proves the point that Thomas was making here. He was a great Welshman and a genius too.
DocMagister 2 years ago
But there is nothing wrong with speaking multiple languages, the phsyke that You only need English is bollocks, excusing the vast mojority of Welsh people from true Welsh culture that's what his ideologies were, I speak Welsh and can also speak another 4 languages fluently, that's what speaking two languages does, Internationally on what part? Can you speak multiple langauges? its proven that bilingual people learn other languages faster. Not a Welshman in my eyes.
adamjones416 2 years ago
Of course there's nothing wrong with speaking multiple languages. Gwyn Thomas hmself taught Spanish and French for years so he presumably could also see the value of learning multiple languages. I speak two myself. I have lived in Wales all my life and have not yet met a single Welsh speaker who couldn't also speak English. I don't need to learn Welsh to appreciate the richness of Welsh culture and identity. Surely the purpose of language is to communicate, not to isolate.
DocMagister 2 years ago
Isolate? .Like you said all welsh speakers speak two languages, which is more than most English only speakers. So your telling me when you see welsh placenames, when you here welsh spoken on the street in the shops on signs, it doesnt intruge you?, I see Wales with eyes, Welsh and English you only see Wales with one Eye. You choose to isolate yourself, just because I speak Welsh doesn't automatically mean I wish to isolate anyone, ,Like I said I speak both languages of this country, you dont,
adamjones416 2 years ago
I can already communicate fluently with 100% of the Welsh population by speaking English. So the purpose of learning and speaking Welsh is clearly not to communicate with people you couldn't speak to before. So what is it for? Why do we spend millions fostering a culture of bilingualism when we are closing hospitals and schools for lack of funds? Why do you declare that Gwyn Thomas is not a "proper" Welshman simply because he wanted the world to understand what we were saying to each other?
DocMagister 2 years ago