I was a perfectly normal child until I had the MMR vaccine, and immediately afterwards getting it I remained a perfectly normal child who didn't get Measles Mumps or Rubella.
autism can take a while to surface and to be diognosed i think that it is people fear of the vaccine that causes them to look for signs of autisum after the injection this means that they notice sign after the injection and asume it was the vacine.
my daughter had the mmr vaccine she was a normal toddler since she had the mmr vaccine she developed autism months later and has gone backward in her development there is no history of autism in my family tree whatsoever she wasa normal every day up until that stage b4 then
@Twistedfirstarter81 You must not be aware that autism is a genetic disease...unless you inject the foetus with chemicals, there is NO risk of autism. But all those words have just slid off you, huh?
@Twistedfirstarter81 There is literally no evidence that MMR causes autism. And hundreds upon hundreds of published studies. Your daughter would have developed autism anyway.
I am very sorry for your child's developing of autism. The fact of the matter is that the typical age for the onset of the symptoms of autism and the application of the MMR vaccine are the same.
There is no evidence for any connection between the two.
IGNORANCE IS YOUR WORST ENEMY..DO YOU REALIZE WHAT YOUR CHILDREN ARE BEING EXPOSED TO? OR YOU TRUST THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES THAT PROFIT FROM A SICK POPULATION. ITS TIME TO WAKE UP AND STOP LIVING IN FEAR WHICH IS BEING DRIVEN BY IGNORANCE . PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOODNESS EDIFY YOURSELVES PEACE AND LOVE
@sol2soul77 "OR YOU TRUST THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES THAT PROFIT FROM A SICK POPULATION" That's completely ridiculous; it would be like getting upset at restaurants for profiting from a hungry population.
@ArcanaKnight DID YOU KNOW BAYER A PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANY SOLD MEDICATION TAINTED WITH HIV TO THE EUROPEAN AND SOUTH AMERICAN MARKET AND THEY ARE STILL TRADING. THESE PEOPLE NEED A SICK SOCIETY IN ORDER TO MAKE A PROFIT HOW ELSE WILL THEY GENERATE IT OTHER THAN BY CYCLICAL CONSUMPTION WHICH IS THE DRIVER OF ANY MONETARY ECONOMY. A POPULATION THAT GOES HUNGRY BECAUSE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH RESTAURANTS IS A POPULATION THAT IS DOOMED. HAVE A LOOK AT WHAT YOU EAT AND TELL ME IT IS 100% HEALTHY PEACE
@666or999 SHOPS DONT NEED CUSTOMERS, BIRDS DONT NEED WINGS TO FLY, PEOPLE DONT CHEAT TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE THIS WORLD IS COMPLETELY FINE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT HERE....
@sol2soul77 They'd make more money putting the money into R&D for more cosmetic treatments like viagra, or just not making vaccines and treating the symptoms of diseases we would otherwise be protected against instead.
"Children who haven't had the MMR vaccine should be excluded from school because otherwise Measels were going to take hold among children who have been vaccinated." Is he implying that vaccinated children were going to get measels or that they were going to be in classes full of sick children? If anything the kids go home for a week or two to get their permanent immunity. They would probably have to take work home with them though.
If vaccines are effective and give protection against the disease spreading among the un-vaccinated....what is wrong leaving the un-vaccinated to die off? If your special child is protected by the vaccine, you should not be worried about them mixing with the unclean!
@HumanSayNo There are a few problems with that. The first being that there is a portion of the population that just isn't able to be vaccinated because of age or having a compromised immune system, and another being that vaccines aren't 100% effective, so a small percentage of those that are vaccinated don't develop the immunity. Also, how could anyone consider it humane or even okay to allow a portion of the population to just die off because of poor decisions made by their parents?
"Carcinogenicity - we have done no testing for the carcinogenicity of MF59 adjuvant or any of our vaccines. We haven't done it and we don't plan to." Dr. Novicki, Scientist for Novartis
Fiona didn't actually state MMR was a cause for autism, she just said you can't deny parents who are stringing a cause on correlation. She actually said it was irresponsible for Wakefield to put up such poorly done research.
Nice exemple of misuse of words. It`s not about "educating" people, it`s about informing people. Educating is a camouflage, means it implies that pro-vax is educated, anti-vax is uneducated.
vaccination is a misconcept of medicine. parroted from one doctor to the next, unable to think independently, ignoring all those serious damages by vaccine.
BritishMedicalJournal& The Lancet wedded to Merck CME partnership. wwwdotahrpdotorg/cms/content/view/766/9/Why did the BMJ fail to disclose its partnership agreement with Merck, major vaccine manufacturer--13 vaccines, including the controversial MMR vaccineIs?
@MyPablohoney No shes quite correct actually..It triggers autism in children with a certain mitochondrial pre-disposition..This is something that can easily be tested via a blood test to see if it will be a problem but do they test for it?.Nooooooo Big Pharma are not out to protect us or our children..Who is responsible for mainstream medicine being the way it is today?..David Rockefeller..Hes also heavily into Eugenics and De-population..look it up people
@MyPablohoney Now now MyPablohoney..no need to have a temper tantrum..Looks like you were so rude to me they've removed your comment he he..about the only thing you and I have in common is we are both fans of the Jerky Boys..Trouble is your just a real life Jerky Boy.
@MyPablohoney Ya your probably right dickhead..he he..now run along and get your annual made in china Flu shot now son..I wouldnt want you to get sick now..Hope you got the swine flu vaccine in 2009 and the double dose in '09 and '10..and you got all the 27 other shots that the kids of today receive by the age of 18..I worry about your health..muuuuaah
LoL! They said that the unvaccinated kids will infect the vaccinated kids; what is the point of vaccinating kids if they can still get sick from the unvaccinated kids?
LoL! They said that the unvaccinated kids will infect the vaccinated kids; what is the point of vaccinating kids if they can still get sick from the unvaccinated kids
@strider33612 Its all about "herd immunity." There is a small population of people who simply cannot get immunized, and it is up to the rest of the "herd" to make sure they do not get infected, by being immunized themselves. Jesus, there is some ignorance on these boards...
@tootoo1upper So the vaccinated kids have to stay away from the kids who simply can't get vaccinated so how would herd immunity work if the vaccinated kids can still catch it from the small population who can't get vaccinated, and what if some people don't get their boosters in time? What about those vaccinated kids who still get sick? If vaccines aren't 100% effective, then how can you be sure herd immunity among vaccinated kids work?
@strider33612@strider33612 First of all, tootoo didn't say anything about vaccinated kids having to say away from the very small minority who can't get vaccinated. The problem is that parents of kids who would normally be able to be vaccinated are choosing not to vaccinate; these aren't kids who CAN'T be vaccinated, they're just CHOOSING not to because of anti-vax fearmongering.
We can be sure herd immunity works even though vaccines aren't 100% effective because the effectiveness of the vaccine is figured into it already. You also only need to look at areas like California or the UK where the vaccination rate has fallen due to anti-vax fearmongering and the corresponding spike in infection rate for those diseases.
@ArcanaKnight But you see how this herd immunity among vaxed kids don't make any sense? That is the point I was trying to make. Even if everyone was rushing to get their kids vaccinated, there would still be some who could not vaccinate, and of course since vaccines are not 100% effective (anyone would know that), then there would still be infections, and the only ones to blame would be the kids who could not get vaccinated, or be in denial, tell the parents they did not vaccinate, & burn them.
@strider33612 1) It makes perfect sense, you just keep confusing it, almost purposefully. Yes, there would still be some that couldn't get vaccinated and some for which the vaccine wasn't completely effective, but there is such a small number of them, and they are so spread out, that it doesn't give the disease a safe harbor to work from like the communities of unvaccinated do.
@ArcanaKnight 2) Individual unvaccinated children aren't the problem, but people choosing not to vaccinate generally live in clusters, and these clusters of unvaccinated people is where the problem is. As I said before, you have only to look at places like California to see examples of these unvaccinated communities allowing the disease to spread because it gives the infection a foothold and safe haven from which to spread into the surrounding communities.
@ArcanaKnight Really, you think the numbers are small, why because the vaccine manufactures say so? I know for a fact that it is not. I talk to people, and I know people in the news industry. Small amount? lies. More money more power.
@strider33612 How am I lying? Do you even know what I was talking about anymore? I was specifically talking about the relatively small number of people that aren't able to be vaccinated either because of age or being immunocompromised; and yes, it is demonstrably true that these groups make up a small portion of the population. Are you really disputing these facts? Are you saying that the number of people who are immunocomromised actually makes up a much larger portion of the population?
@ArcanaKnight I didn't say you were lying, I am talking about the pharmaceutical company who just want to sell their products and use people's bodies as a profiteering machine.
@strider33612 "pharmaceutical company who just want to sell their products" That's just stupid. Of course they want to sell their products; replace "pharmaceutical" with "auto parts" or any other industry, and it would be just as true. Their goal of making a profit doesn't automatically mean that what they make is somehow dangerous; its in their best interest to make safe, effective products.
So, ARE you saying that the numbers of immunocompromised make up a large portion of the population?
@ArcanaKnight You should know that I meant that the pharmaceutical company is not in the business of healing, but making a profit, even if it means harming innocent people with skewing drug trials to make their products look good. How many injections does a child need nowadays? When I was young we only got one. Now, every child is pumped full of toxic chemicals. Have humanity lost faith in the human immune system, that they have to rely on potions (sorcery as the bible call it), don't be fooled.
@strider33612 "When I was young we only got one" You sure about that? By the late 70s, there were recommended vaccines for 7 different diseases (having just eradicated smallpox). Its not that we've "lost faith" in the immune system, its that we have developed treatments to stop some diseases from being endemic anymore. Before the polio vaccine was discovered, parents were scared to let their kids out during the summer over fear of the outbreaks; the immune system wasn't enough to fight it.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised to find that someone who describes modern medical treatments as sorcery and potions wouldn't understand how integral vaccines are to our current standards of health, how its thanks to these simple preventative treatments that large portions of our population aren't routinely crippled for life because of the side-effects of these diseases. Vaccines are a victim of their own success; most people don't understand what life was like before they were developed.
@ArcanaKnight One shot a year, my mother never used to follow up on my vaccines (it seems) I only got the shot during school opening, and everytime around that time, I would get a skin rash like clock work (my skin would turn white and flakey). Well when I got to jr high, my vaccination stoped, and ever since I have never took it. even as kids ppl with chicken pox would run around outside. I rarely got sick, but ppl who vac got sicker than me. with nutrition, I don't know when I last got sick.
@strider33612 One shot a year is quite a bit different than just "we only got one". Also, I think anyone would agree that a mild skin irritation for a little bit is a small price to pay to protect yourself against half a dozen different very serious diseases.
"people who got vac got sicker than me" Some people have stronger immune systems than others. Also, that is anecdotal evidence based solely on one person's fallible memory, so its even more unreliable than normal.
@ArcanaKnight Please..cut the bull shit statement. I know a woman who believes, and still believes in vaccines, admit that her mother got injured severely by the vaccine. I know a woman who also didn't get vaccinated one year, and said this is the first year who did not get sick like she normally does; I know a girl who died a day after getting vaccinated. So cut the crap! All these conflict of interest among these same people pharma pushers. Open your eyes dude. Ever heard of Ghost writing?
@strider33612 Yes, as with all medical treatments, there are occasionally side effects because anything that can cure a problem could also potentially cause one (its an unfortunate fact of our physiology). What you're doing though is greatly over-inflating the risks of side effects, making up side effects, and denying any good that they do The side effects of vaccines are hundreds, and even thousands of times less likely to occur than the side effects of the diseases they guard against.
correct, gold star, science doesnt change it is merely added to or refined.
and therefore before each refinement it is merely prevalent opinion.
and vaccination is about to be refined because the establishment keep saying its totally totally safe and yet doctors treating patients are privately telling them that there is a problem.
this is due to the fact that the govt, the experts and the public health services declared that the untrialed swine flu shot was totally totally safe.
Before the internet, conspiracy theories were limited to discussions at parties and a few books. Now conspiracy theories are spreading and already are having a effect on society.
The symptoms of autism happen to come about around the same age as when a child would get vaccines. I guess it is human nature to assume the cause. Fortunately for us we have scientific research that is more useful than circumstantial evidence.
but if a significant portion of the medical profession are clearly stating that there is a problem here.
and are clearly stating that there is a significant problem with the research being done at present, in that it is invariably all paid for by a special interest groups.
then maybe it is time to pay attention.
remember the " the science is settled nonsense with global warming ".
@markscott7777777 Can you please tell me where you got the information that a "significant proportion" of medical professionals state that there is a problem? Although the word significant has different meanings in science than it's general use, from what I can see the only medical professionals that doubt vaccines are a few individuals that make a lot of noise.
Also, climate change HAS been settled by science. There is a worldwide scientific consensus. Again, only a few individuals disagree.
Science is only the "opinion of the time"??? What on earth makes you think this?
Science creates models that best fit the observed reality. Science is evidence based, there is no "opinion". In the vast majority of cases, science doesn't change, rather it is added to and refined.
Newton -> Einstein -> Standard model
Earth is flat -> circle -> sphere -> ellipsoid -> slightly pear shaped ellipsoid
the public know that it was a monumental fiasco and waste of money, to scare them into taking the shot. those that didnt take it are quietly smiling and telling everyone else why it was so silly to take an untrialed medicine along with any other vaccination questions that they have.
the bubble has burst on wether vaccination is completely safe and the medical establishment have a big problem them on their hands as no one really believes what They or the MSM say anymore.
Fiona Phillips will say anything to get her face on TV. She's all about self promotion and obviously doesn't have brains to engage in serious discussion. The fact she has put more children at risk won't bother her at all.
and on the subject of vaccination saved the world from a severe pandemic with the swine flu.
please explain why Poland did not have mass deaths.
why was there only 138 deaths, not including the 90 on the presidential plane which may have been pilot error ? when no-one was vaccinated in that country.
in fact why looking at a map of the world of deaths per country does Poland seem just average.
by the way the BBC says USA had only 2328 deaths, are they wrong, you said 12,000.
@markscott7777777 Once again, the fact is that we just got lucky with H1N1; even though it was milder than predicted, health services were still stretched to capacity, and next time we might not be so lucky. Here is an article in Nature discussing in a bit more detail what we actually learned from the pandemic.
ww w. nature. com/nature/journal/v463/n7278/full/463135b.html
shame that all those experts cant seem to admit that they overplayed it.
the only thing that was lucky about the entire fiasco was that the public in general did not swallow the propaganda that was continuously supplied, 24/7, and this i have to say even surprised me, as the public usually buy everything that is sold on the MSM.
BTW, it was the CDC that says 12,000, or is it approx 2,500, or is invisible dead people.
@markscott7777777 What are you talking about? Again, I never said anything about 12,000 anything. You're confusing me with someone else.
And again, you're just faulting them for not having a crystal ball with 100% perfect vision of the future which is a ridiculous notion; the only thing it shows is that you clearly have no idea the kind of variables are involved. The simple fact is that We. Got. Lucky. It also deserves to be pointed out that none of the many doomsday predictions made
by the anti-vaxers came true. Where is your blame for them? They predicted all sorts of things from the WHO declaring martial law in order to usurp our sovereignty to using the H1N1 vaccine to sterilize/kill/brainwash the masses. Why are you not attacking them for their having been even more completely and utterly wrong? I only ask because by your logic ALL predictions should be 100% accurate or else they were part of some nefarious plot.
why are you blaming me, or even trying to make out that i am some how in the camp of antivaxers.
why are you not clearly stating that the WHO are still recommending swine flu vaccination, despite the fact that many countries have now disbanded their programs for healthy people, under fives, because of bad reactions.
on the subject of brainwashing, with the MSM, exaggerating the health threat, then how are people to get a balanced view.
it does not require 100% vision to know that it was hyped to sell vaccines.
and we are going to keep on saying it all over alternative media forever.
because i dont take untrialed medicines and therefore dont prescribe them without full informed consent. in other words stating clearly when they are experimental vaccines.
and with all the hoo ha that has happened this time, big pharma, the MSM, govt health nazis, will never get away with this type of thing again.
Fiona Phillips is an idiot, correlation does not mean cause. Over a large population their will always be cases where a child gets ill around the time of a vaccination.
Gah, how I dislike thee Fiona Phillips. it was of course obvious what her view was going to be before she opened her mouth as she's a fool (or maybe she just likes irl trolling).
As long as Fiona knows some random person who believes something, then that something *must* be true xD
for the seriously medically compromised, not a touch of asthma, vacciantion is probably a reasonable course of action.
there is however, no excuse for panicing the population over mild flu, and there was good indications that it was mild after mexico city admitted that only 140 people had died, not 1500 in a April 2009.
all these expert have obviously never read, " the boy that cried wolf ", it would behove them to do so.
Fiona Phillips You rock !! I have a friend who has 6 children 4 of them were changed over night after recieving MMR. 2 children were fine . But they were repeatedly told that the vaccine wasn`t the cause of their Autism my friend & her husband said they know it was the vaccines has the change was straight after having them with each child . God didnt intend us to be vaccinated otherwise wed of been born with a syringe in our hands he gave us an immune system instead.
@UkTruthSeeker2009 So god intended small babies die the agonizing death by whooping cough. And god intended you to walk everywhere you go. Naked. Oh, and turn off your computer and wait for the rapture.
@fly44d For all you know there might not have been any illnesses people lived longer before ,how do you know they aren`t` all man made viruses, deseases, Illnesses ?
You weren`t` born neither was I.I could even say the weather was better in those days and clothes could be limited to a palm leaf lol. He would want us to move on Technology wise as to make our lives comfortable But I dont Think hed be impressed in how some of the technology is used these days to the advantage of rich people. Do You
@UkTruthSeeker2009 Wow. The ignorance burns. I do know. The historical, paleontological and anthropological evidence show we lived short, harsh lives before modern medicine and technology. And religion didn't do anything to make anything better. In fact it has always been used by the rich and powerful to control the poor. Look at your leaders in the UK, they are all rich, powerful and religious.
@fly44d You are forcing your opinion ,and I dont care if you are medical or anything else I dont like Vaccines and Im entitled to my opinion. I dont know about my Leaders as they all are mostly Zionists and could worship Lucifer for alls I care they might aswell with what they are helping to do to Palastine. People lived longer years ago were told many chapters from the bible were changed but Genesis supposed to be True ,It tells you in there that people lived a lot longer.Im not a church go`er
@UkTruthSeeker2009 i agree with you ,there are still a hand full of tribes in the world that have never had a cold or bug in their entire life and they live apart from the modern man ,these man made bugs are just a way of controlling the masses its like a religion to these pharmaceutical companies. so much greed in the world.
i dont trust any of them ,they are are total liars.
@gwellyn2 Baloney. All peoples have illnesses of some sort or another. The peoples of Central America were decimated by small pox they didn't have immunity for. There are no utopias on this planet. Imagine if the Spanish brought vaccines with them instead their religion. They could have saved a whole culture.
@gwellyn2 ??!!? Smallpox, measles, pertussis, polio are man made? No. It is historical FACT that tens of thousands of children died every year from those diseases right up to the start of vaccinating against them. It is now FACT that these diseases are coming back and that children are DYING TODAY from them when they didn't need to. I myself got pertussis a few years ago and that was hard, a baby going through that and dying is unimaginable. YOU are NOT right.
but all the spanish brought WAS their religion and the smallpox
poor cental american indians didnt stand a chance, although i did hear a rumour that they ripped each others hearts out to make the sun come up in the morning.
if only jenner had been around with his coxpox ! eh !
having said that if you expect me to inject all that crap, that big pharma says is good for you, into my child, then i suggest you buy a stabproof vest, cause your gonna need one.
@markscott7777777 Ooh! the "big pharma" boogy man. They would love to get out of the vaccine business. Your kid crawling on the floor and putting their hands in their mouth got more live and different viruses than any injection. The FACT that vaccines prevent diseases and the deaths of tens of thousands of children makes it obvious that vaccines are good for you. Defend against that. The anti-vax stance kills children. Period.
@fly44d can you please not force your belief system on other people, everyone is entitled to their opinion, who are you to say i'm wrong you no nothing of my research. and why i think the way i do.
i am always aware of people with huge i know it all ego's ,i can see how far your research has gone ,well thats fine you are totally entitled to your opinion as am i.
@markscott7777777 Yes, if the pharma companies were interested solely in making money, they would make much more from treating the diseases than they do from immunizations.
Yes, its the diseases which actually kill children, but its the propaganda of the anti-vax movement that is allowing these debilitating diseases to come back.
@markscott7777777 The only side effects which are supposedly being denied are the ones that have been manufactured by the anti-vaxers. The actual side effects of vaccines are also hundreds and even thousands of times less likely to occur than the effects of the diseases they protect against.
@markscott7777777 Pharma doesn't make the profits off vaccines, they don't have patents on them and have to compete. How much do you pay for a jab? You wouldn't know.
Disease is prevented (fact) by vaccines. You stop vaccinations. You kill children. Sleep well.
GBS with the H1N1 vaccine last season was no more than the US average. Few people have any side affect. Those who do don't get vaccinated. Need the herd immunity to protect them. You are killing them.
i did not have the swine or seasonal flu jab and i am still alive.
whats the point in having a jab when the disease was very mild and your better just having the flu than risking the side effect that you admit, thankfully can happen.
how did all those big fancy doctors and experts manage to call this one so badly wrong in terms of virulence.
@markscott7777777 You didn't see me say herd immunity for influenza. I was talking pertussis, small pox, polio.
Very nice you are still alive. Thousands did not survive H1N1. 12,000 died in the US, 90% were under 65 yrs old. It wasn't off. H1N1 left the elderly alone, possibly from earlier flu seasons. The young didn't have that immunity unless they were vaccinated.
@markscott7777777 300,000,000 million. That is a lot. 50,000 times the number of people on the planet. Shows that you don't think, you just spew what you believe and want to be true. You can't be bothered to spell Guillaine Barre Syndrome write and you expect anyone to respect anything you say? Look up Arrogance of Ignorance.
@gwellyn2 They seem to forget how many deaths,misscarriages and Gillian bare syndrome arisen from the Swine Flu Vaccine ,then expect people to Trust them.
There was a news article about Twin Baby Girls who recently died as a result of the Measles vaccine and many more cases similar abroad. I don`t` think the parents of the deceased would agree with these swear by the vaccine people.
@UkTruthSeeker2009 dont bother waisting youtime with paid idots ,if they want to kill their kids and change human DNA leave them to it ,its their choice.
@gwellyn2 Of course, because the only reason why someone could possibly disagree with you is because they're being paid to, not because your position is harmful and has little or no actual evidence supporting it.
Fiona Phillips You rock !! I have a friend who has 6 children 4 of them were changed over night after recieving MMR. 2 children were fine . But they were repeatedly told that the vaccine wasn`t the cause of their Autism my friend & her husband said they know it was the vaccines has the change was straight after having them with each child .
and then Lord Ashdown or should we call him by his proper name Paddy Pantsdown coming over all professorial and lecturing us on a specialist topic that he has no special knowledge of but seemingly knows whats best for all.
cause if i was asked, without having special knowledge, about a topic like that, i would say that you need to ask an expert. even with all the hoo ha that has been in the papers and MSM.
this prick said doctors raising questions have alot to answer for.
@markscott7777777 Lecturing on a specialist topic which they have no special knowledge? Now, where does that sound familiar? Isn't that exactly like the politicians, actresses, nutritionists, homeopaths, naturopaths, etc. which make up the majority of the "experts" anti-vaxers point to when claiming vaccines cause autism even though they don't have any special knowledge in either immunology or neurology?
ordinary people are horrified by what their govts done during swine flu !
even more disgusted that their has been no public inquiries.
gobsmacked by the fact that people raising serious questions, about influence and untrialed medicines are treated like pariahs by the MSM or not given airtime at all. Wodarg and BMJ.
big pharma had to go and push their luck and ended up killing the golden goose. monumental hubris.
even that vaccine pharma shill ben goldacre has been caught at the lies.
@markscott7777777 And exactly what financial ties does Ben Goldacre supposedly have to pharma companies that makes him a pharma shill? The only thing I've found is a writing award (that includes a plaque and a small cash prize) that is regularly sponsored by a pharma company which he won ONCE, but I'd hardly consider that enough of a tie to justify calling him a shill. Could it be that, as when you used it with me, you're using it as a baseless ad-hom attack against those with whom disagree?
@markscott7777777 Wow, so the best you can do is a single study his father did which actually condemned a specific vaccine for increasing risk of viral meningitis (one that has since been removed based in part on such studies)? This is nothing but conspiracy mongering nonsense. Here's an article dispelling the other nonsense from the AoA story your claim came from:
ww w. bnet. com/ blog/drug-business/attack-on-autism-critic-8217s-8220secret-8221-father-doesn-8217t-stand-up-to-scrutiny/5564
then why has ben goldacre not replied to the allegation.
and i quote, he has replied, " every single expert that has expressed an opinion on the MMR, has said it is totally safe "
except of couse his dad, who is an expert, and shortly after his paper was published in 1990, the original MMR was withdrawn, the general public, i bet dont even know that there was a problem related to meningitis, with the original MMR Pluserix.
@markscott7777777 Considering his comments were referring to the current MMR shots and were made almost 2 decades after the vaccine his father's study was looking at had already been withdrawn, what exactly does he need to reply about?
@markscott7777777 Why do you keep believing these things were secret? Just because they didn't take out ads in tv and newspapers announcing it, doesn't mean that it was a secret.
Not true. There may have been a rise in the number of cases of meningitis, but the deaths from it were remained constant through to the mid 90's:
and i dont understand what point you have made regarding secrecy !
a study was done ! it showed that the Pluserix MMR vaccine, still used in africa, had caused a spike in meningitis cases and the reaction was not to tell the public.
just withdraw it and say nothing, keep it a private matter; where have i heard that before, oh yes, tony blairs excuse for not vaccinating his child with MMR.
so it was announced to the professional people but not really to the public, with the sort of fanfare that the MSM are so capable of on health care issues !
i wonder why ? and off course why the delay, the study was done in 1990.
if you had to explain to some parent, that their child died of meningitis, even once, then your whole attitude would change towards this issue.
but you just stick to your guns, and remember to keep taking all the shots recommended by CDC.
@markscott7777777 Again, wrong. Did you miss where I said it was announced to the press?
And I have no idea why the UK waited so long before pulling it, but then neither do you. The difference between us is that you immediately jump to the certainty that it was a nefarious plot whereas I'm comfortable saying I don't know, though I'm inclined to believe its just another example of government efficiency.
its because things have to be repeatedly and constantly replayed over and over again for me to notice anything.
i am sure the public are the same, unless they are spoon fed info, 24/7, accurate or not information, then it just does not penetrate !
i wonder if its the same with innaccurate info, like say WMD/Iraq. i wonder if you play that lie,on the MSM repeatedly, then the public will believe it, or is it a nefarious plot.
@markscott7777777 If that is really what it takes to convince you of anything, no wonder you believe the anti-vax propaganda. Not only does it get all this air-time on tv specials and "special reports", it has celebrity spokespeople, several books, a very vocal base, and even a couple movies proponents have made; the only thing they're missing is the scientific evidence supporting their claims, but as you've said, that isn't necessary to convince you.
@ArcanaKnight Besides, it was a drug recall story, how much coverage were you seriously expecting? If they run them at all, its usually only mentioned once (and briefly), and even then it is usually buried deep in the paper/among other stories. I've seen stories about "what's cool this summer" (an actual COVER STORY Time magazine ran) get more followup then most drug recall stories.
and the only thing that you are missing is the scientific evidence on safety and efficacy. which doesnt exist for vaccines. why is that.
why is it that all the medicines in the world have to go thru safety and efficacy trials as an industry standard, but vaccines do not, to the same standard as other medicines.
glad though that you accept it did not get much coverage.
dont worry were making up for it now, and all your huffing and puffing wont change that.
@markscott7777777 Actually they are tested before they are licensed for use (at least for ones used in the US); almost all national immunization programs also have a system for reporting adverse effects (such as VAERS) to keep an eye on possible effects that the initial testing may have missed. I understand your criteria for belief is basically just whoever is the loudest, but you really need to be more discerning of where you get your information.
testing for immunogenicity is not and never has been medical trials for safety and efficacy.
the medical profession tried to keep that secret knowledge secret. it is not anymore.
last year, the general population, despite the efforts of MSM, largely ignored their pleas for us all to get vaccinated, maybe not in USA, but certainly across europe,
and are now growing angry at the lack of investigation by the authorities, into what appears to be an exaggerated threat.
@markscott7777777 That is nothing more than blaming doctors of not being able to perfectly predict the future. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't with you people; you blame them for being cautious when we get lucky and the worst doesn't happen, and you'd blame them if they wait too long and it does happen. We got lucky that there wasn't a pandemic, that's all; all that blaming them will do is make them too gun-shy in the future to take action in time to do anything about it.
@markscott7777777 Yes, I admit that drug recall stories don't usually make headlines, but I disagree with your implication that it is due to anything nefarious. There is no great conspiracy about it; most people just consider drug recall stories boring, and news agencies don't tend to focus on stories people think are boring because they don't sell papers/attract viewers.
Also, what exactly is the point of making a fuss now about a vaccine that was removed from the market a decade ago?
it was removed from the market place a decade ago !
but it is not generally known to the public that this is so, or the reasons why.
it is still available in africa, cause it is cheaper, and we must all question the veracity, of drug companies, and govt licensing people who seem to think that it is not safe enough for our little darlings, so lets off load it in africa, and pretend that there is nothing wrong.
more than 15% unvaccinated and no herd immunity effect.
@markscott7777777 You keep acting as if the recall was done surreptitiously, which it wasn't. As will most recall stories (not just drug recalls), they are usually given very little notice by the media because the general public considers them to be boring. Its as simple as that. You have nothing to blame but the public's apathy towards the subject and short attention spans for it not being generally known.
@markscott7777777 Of course, what a cunning plan; they "surreptitiously" withdrew the vaccine by announcing it to the press as well as thousands of pharmacists across the country. How very sneaky of them; how on earth could such a plan have possibly failed *massive eye roll*. You accuse these companies of perpetrating supposedly ingeniously nefarious plans, but what you actually attribute to them is just too monumentally idiotic to have ever been done as you claim.
announcing something once in a newspaper and by letter to pharmacists is not a fanfare. and is quickly forgotten about if noticed at all.
i am begining to think that you dont believe that the MSM is used occassionally to influence the population, and vice versa to keep information from the public by publishing on inside page of a paper once.
instead of the repititious cocophany that MSM television, telling us all day long that untrialed vaccines H1N1, are safe.
@markscott7777777 As pretty much any MSF doctor could attest, drugs like that are used in places like Africa because they can't afford the safer/more effective ones and often treatments that occasionally have serious side effects are still better than no treatments at all. I agree that ideally it would be different, but that is sadly the truth of the world we currently live in.
@markscott7777777 No, you're just selfishly using the situation to spout your half-baked theories, theories which are admittedly based more on who's the loudest than the actual facts and evidence. If you wanted to actually do something useful about it, try donating to MSF or raise awareness of it's need.
i do admit i am using the situation to get people to ask important questions.
whats wrong with asking questions ?
i did not make the situation, MSM, govt, and big pharma made a bad call, and members of the profession who were put under pressure, and some did lose their jobs, in order to take a vaccine that they knew was un-necessary.
dismissal leagl cases will be very interesting and we can trust youtube for airtime, especially now people are doubting MSM cover.
@markscott7777777 Okay, so the Mainstream Media outlets, the pharmaceutical companies, the governments of several nations (if not all of them), not to mention countless numbers of individual doctors who were practicing in those nations were all in on it; anyone else? You do realize that conspiracies become exponentially less likely to succeed the more people are added to them, not more so, right?
" the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it "
and youtube appear to have changed the font page, making this conversation, more difficult to continue. no, sorry, its an imagination conspiracy.
vaccination has fallen, not because the lies, but because ordinary doctors are begining to say privately to patients that everything is not rosy inthe garden, and they are being prevented from speaking out more openly because we all know what happens they do, dont we.
@mark Much as creationist beliefs were on the rise because science teachers were telling their students about "the strength and weaknesses of evolution" and promoting Intelligent Design.
A view that dissents from the majority isn't any less false just because it isn't the majority opinion. They are also no more "prevented" from speaking out than any other pseudoscience proponent is "prevented" from speaking out about topics unsupported by the evidence; they're just afraid of the laughter.
@markscott7777777 Are you referring to Wakefield, or do you have some other specific instance in mind that doesn't involve someone who's committed gross ethics violations as well as research fraud.
the swine flu and all the shennaingans that went on with it are there to see.
and all recorded, and uploaded to youtube and other sites and closely monitored scientifically examined and thoroughly investigated.
and in the UK, where 85% of the population did not take the vaccine, people are begining to ask the authorities, why was it so necessary to be vaccinated. the program for vaccinating healthy kids was quietly droped when the 79% parental consent refusal came in.
and when i qualified measles related encephalitis was a rare complication, less than 1,10,000 cases, now its supposedly 1,100 or less and those results are from studies done in africa where it is still endemic.
and the vaccine they are getting is the one not good enough for our kids, because it has been linked to encephalitis. and of course withdrawn.
and use epidemiological data from africa to continue to scare parents in western countries.
if you have not already guessed it yet, i was one of the medical students at that lecture and i shit you not liam donaldson said those words.
liam and his pals, brought you the swine flu hysteria and vaccination program which has at last shown them all up for the bunch of medical Nazis that they are.
they, liam, prof oxford, david salisbury, prof anderson and gordon duff should remember what eventually happened to the Nazis before history decides, at long last, to repeat itself.
also when doctors like, Dr Liam Fox, real doctor who has-been otherwise occupied with being a politician and nailing his expenses, pulls the old public responsibility nonsense arguement, ya da ya da yah !
then reply with these words, seeing as he is a doctor,
" do you declare, under penalty of full commercial liability that the product that you are recommending will not cause damage or long term side effects "
get him or the record, and then get his signature.
dr wakefield went about the study the wrong way..but does not mean his ideas of how this is happening are wrong..and it was brain deer the pathetic journalist who brought all this out in the media..not wakefield
@wonadewona It was Deer who brought what out in the media? You couldn't be talking about the false claim that autism was caused by the MMR jab, that was stated by Wakefield in the press conference after he published his study.
Yes, the fact that Wakefield committed scientific fraud doesn't mean that his hypothesis was wrong by itself (though it is a strong indicator); its all the evidence that has been collected since then has continually shown that to be the case.
I believe that these MMR kids were born Autistic but were high-functioners. This changed and Autism got on top of them. Maybe the vaccine lowered their ability to learn and pretend to be Neurotypical?
autism is what they are calling vaccine damage... just because that alot dont become injured..does not mean vaccines are safe..infact at this point in time i think its coming up as 1 in 60 injured... and thats just the autism named ,brain damage..how about all the other reactions... you pro vaccine people that attack people who do not want to put poisons into their children AFTER seeing the evidence for themselves just have no idea...
I was a perfectly normal child until I had the MMR vaccine, and immediately afterwards getting it I remained a perfectly normal child who didn't get Measles Mumps or Rubella.
hennimore1 2 months ago 2
autism can take a while to surface and to be diognosed i think that it is people fear of the vaccine that causes them to look for signs of autisum after the injection this means that they notice sign after the injection and asume it was the vacine.
kms50549 2 months ago
my daughter had the mmr vaccine she was a normal toddler since she had the mmr vaccine she developed autism months later and has gone backward in her development there is no history of autism in my family tree whatsoever she wasa normal every day up until that stage b4 then
Twistedfirstarter81 2 months ago 2
@Twistedfirstarter81 Me and my sister had the MMR vaccine and are totally fine, as is everyone else I know.
spackhollogay 2 months ago
@Twistedfirstarter81 You must not be aware that autism is a genetic disease...unless you inject the foetus with chemicals, there is NO risk of autism. But all those words have just slid off you, huh?
LichQueenKathie 2 months ago
@Twistedfirstarter81 There is literally no evidence that MMR causes autism. And hundreds upon hundreds of published studies. Your daughter would have developed autism anyway.
93tomb 1 month ago
@Twistedfirstarter81
I am very sorry for your child's developing of autism. The fact of the matter is that the typical age for the onset of the symptoms of autism and the application of the MMR vaccine are the same.
There is no evidence for any connection between the two.
kshackleton 1 month ago
IGNORANCE IS YOUR WORST ENEMY..DO YOU REALIZE WHAT YOUR CHILDREN ARE BEING EXPOSED TO? OR YOU TRUST THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES THAT PROFIT FROM A SICK POPULATION. ITS TIME TO WAKE UP AND STOP LIVING IN FEAR WHICH IS BEING DRIVEN BY IGNORANCE . PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOODNESS EDIFY YOURSELVES PEACE AND LOVE
sol2soul77 5 months ago
@sol2soul77 "OR YOU TRUST THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES THAT PROFIT FROM A SICK POPULATION" That's completely ridiculous; it would be like getting upset at restaurants for profiting from a hungry population.
ArcanaKnight 5 months ago
@ArcanaKnight DID YOU KNOW BAYER A PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANY SOLD MEDICATION TAINTED WITH HIV TO THE EUROPEAN AND SOUTH AMERICAN MARKET AND THEY ARE STILL TRADING. THESE PEOPLE NEED A SICK SOCIETY IN ORDER TO MAKE A PROFIT HOW ELSE WILL THEY GENERATE IT OTHER THAN BY CYCLICAL CONSUMPTION WHICH IS THE DRIVER OF ANY MONETARY ECONOMY. A POPULATION THAT GOES HUNGRY BECAUSE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH RESTAURANTS IS A POPULATION THAT IS DOOMED. HAVE A LOOK AT WHAT YOU EAT AND TELL ME IT IS 100% HEALTHY PEACE
sol2soul77 5 months ago
@sol2soul77
Proof please?
That's quite a large claim, so it'll need quite a large body of proof. Can you produce the proof?
EvanJCastle 4 months ago
@EvanJCastle com/watch?v=cphkD-9NUe8
sol2soul77 4 months ago
@sol2soul77 They don't need a sick society to make a profit people get sick on thier own.
666or999 3 months ago
@666or999 SHOPS DONT NEED CUSTOMERS, BIRDS DONT NEED WINGS TO FLY, PEOPLE DONT CHEAT TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE THIS WORLD IS COMPLETELY FINE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT HERE....
sol2soul77 3 months ago
@sol2soul77 They'd make more money putting the money into R&D for more cosmetic treatments like viagra, or just not making vaccines and treating the symptoms of diseases we would otherwise be protected against instead.
ArcanaKnight 3 months ago
What about the right of a parent to send their kid to a school that is free of disease?
twiedenfeld 5 months ago 3
"Children who haven't had the MMR vaccine should be excluded from school because otherwise Measels were going to take hold among children who have been vaccinated." Is he implying that vaccinated children were going to get measels or that they were going to be in classes full of sick children? If anything the kids go home for a week or two to get their permanent immunity. They would probably have to take work home with them though.
Typhoonbladefist 7 months ago
If vaccines are effective and give protection against the disease spreading among the un-vaccinated....what is wrong leaving the un-vaccinated to die off? If your special child is protected by the vaccine, you should not be worried about them mixing with the unclean!
HumanSayNo 8 months ago
@HumanSayNo There are a few problems with that. The first being that there is a portion of the population that just isn't able to be vaccinated because of age or having a compromised immune system, and another being that vaccines aren't 100% effective, so a small percentage of those that are vaccinated don't develop the immunity. Also, how could anyone consider it humane or even okay to allow a portion of the population to just die off because of poor decisions made by their parents?
ArcanaKnight 8 months ago
Nice one, Fiona. Voicing the concerns of confused, scientifically illiterate dip shits everywhere!
topstep 9 months ago 3
Ban the MMR now!!
NewWorldOmagh 9 months ago
Fiona : Fit as fuck BUT fucking fick
39thejust1 10 months ago
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"Carcinogenicity - we have done no testing for the carcinogenicity of MF59 adjuvant or any of our vaccines. We haven't done it and we don't plan to." Dr. Novicki, Scientist for Novartis
promiseIsaih60 10 months ago
Fiona didn't actually state MMR was a cause for autism, she just said you can't deny parents who are stringing a cause on correlation. She actually said it was irresponsible for Wakefield to put up such poorly done research.
oliverscott2007 10 months ago
Nice exemple of misuse of words. It`s not about "educating" people, it`s about informing people. Educating is a camouflage, means it implies that pro-vax is educated, anti-vax is uneducated.
vaccination is a misconcept of medicine. parroted from one doctor to the next, unable to think independently, ignoring all those serious damages by vaccine.
derbotschafter7 10 months ago
Thank you Fiona !!! You speak the truth !!!
heightboosting 11 months ago
@heightboosting
you mean utter bullshit?
mancltymagics1 9 months ago
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BritishMedicalJournal& The Lancet wedded to Merck CME partnership. wwwdotahrpdotorg/cms/content/view/766/9/Why did the BMJ fail to disclose its partnership agreement with Merck, major vaccine manufacturer--13 vaccines, including the controversial MMR vaccineIs?
promiseIsaih60 11 months ago
Fucking hell. She is comletely stupid.
justnotcricket 11 months ago
Fiona Phillips is a FUCKING IDIOT!
MyPablohoney 11 months ago 12
@MyPablohoney No shes quite correct actually..It triggers autism in children with a certain mitochondrial pre-disposition..This is something that can easily be tested via a blood test to see if it will be a problem but do they test for it?.Nooooooo Big Pharma are not out to protect us or our children..Who is responsible for mainstream medicine being the way it is today?..David Rockefeller..Hes also heavily into Eugenics and De-population..look it up people
smasherhits 5 months ago
Comment removed
MyPablohoney 5 months ago
@MyPablohoney Now now MyPablohoney..no need to have a temper tantrum..Looks like you were so rude to me they've removed your comment he he..about the only thing you and I have in common is we are both fans of the Jerky Boys..Trouble is your just a real life Jerky Boy.
smasherhits 5 months ago
@smasherhits
Actually dipshit I removed my comment. I couldn't type properly on a phone touch-screen.
And let me spell it out for you.. There is no robust peer-review study which claims that there is a link between Autism and MMR.
And what the hairy fuck has Rockefeller to do with allocation of NHS funds (what with Phillips being British y'see?)
The "Big Pharma" conspiracy bollocks is the typical crap spouted by homeopaths and other twats!
MyPablohoney 5 months ago 2
@MyPablohoney Ya your probably right dickhead..he he..now run along and get your annual made in china Flu shot now son..I wouldnt want you to get sick now..Hope you got the swine flu vaccine in 2009 and the double dose in '09 and '10..and you got all the 27 other shots that the kids of today receive by the age of 18..I worry about your health..muuuuaah
smasherhits 5 months ago
@smasherhits
Well I'm a bit disappointed, you're not playing the game, you know how it goes:
You cite studies claiming a link.
I repudiate these for lack of control/ethics/trail size etc.
You accuse me of being a shill
I question your parentage , you get the idea...
Anyway......all UK, (and as far as I can tell US & Canada) influenza jabs are made in Belgium & Philidelphia.
MyPablohoney 5 months ago
@MyPablohoney I'm adding her to my Bitch slap list!!!
Ngunjiri1 5 months ago
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LoL! They said that the unvaccinated kids will infect the vaccinated kids; what is the point of vaccinating kids if they can still get sick from the unvaccinated kids?
strider33612 11 months ago
LoL! They said that the unvaccinated kids will infect the vaccinated kids; what is the point of vaccinating kids if they can still get sick from the unvaccinated kids
strider33612 11 months ago 2
@strider33612 Its all about "herd immunity." There is a small population of people who simply cannot get immunized, and it is up to the rest of the "herd" to make sure they do not get infected, by being immunized themselves. Jesus, there is some ignorance on these boards...
tootoo1upper 9 months ago
@tootoo1upper So the vaccinated kids have to stay away from the kids who simply can't get vaccinated so how would herd immunity work if the vaccinated kids can still catch it from the small population who can't get vaccinated, and what if some people don't get their boosters in time? What about those vaccinated kids who still get sick? If vaccines aren't 100% effective, then how can you be sure herd immunity among vaccinated kids work?
strider33612 9 months ago
@strider33612 @strider33612 First of all, tootoo didn't say anything about vaccinated kids having to say away from the very small minority who can't get vaccinated. The problem is that parents of kids who would normally be able to be vaccinated are choosing not to vaccinate; these aren't kids who CAN'T be vaccinated, they're just CHOOSING not to because of anti-vax fearmongering.
ArcanaKnight 9 months ago
We can be sure herd immunity works even though vaccines aren't 100% effective because the effectiveness of the vaccine is figured into it already. You also only need to look at areas like California or the UK where the vaccination rate has fallen due to anti-vax fearmongering and the corresponding spike in infection rate for those diseases.
ArcanaKnight 9 months ago
@ArcanaKnight But you see how this herd immunity among vaxed kids don't make any sense? That is the point I was trying to make. Even if everyone was rushing to get their kids vaccinated, there would still be some who could not vaccinate, and of course since vaccines are not 100% effective (anyone would know that), then there would still be infections, and the only ones to blame would be the kids who could not get vaccinated, or be in denial, tell the parents they did not vaccinate, & burn them.
strider33612 9 months ago
@strider33612 1) It makes perfect sense, you just keep confusing it, almost purposefully. Yes, there would still be some that couldn't get vaccinated and some for which the vaccine wasn't completely effective, but there is such a small number of them, and they are so spread out, that it doesn't give the disease a safe harbor to work from like the communities of unvaccinated do.
ArcanaKnight 9 months ago
@ArcanaKnight 2) Individual unvaccinated children aren't the problem, but people choosing not to vaccinate generally live in clusters, and these clusters of unvaccinated people is where the problem is. As I said before, you have only to look at places like California to see examples of these unvaccinated communities allowing the disease to spread because it gives the infection a foothold and safe haven from which to spread into the surrounding communities.
ArcanaKnight 9 months ago
@ArcanaKnight Really, you think the numbers are small, why because the vaccine manufactures say so? I know for a fact that it is not. I talk to people, and I know people in the news industry. Small amount? lies. More money more power.
strider33612 6 months ago
@strider33612 How am I lying? Do you even know what I was talking about anymore? I was specifically talking about the relatively small number of people that aren't able to be vaccinated either because of age or being immunocompromised; and yes, it is demonstrably true that these groups make up a small portion of the population. Are you really disputing these facts? Are you saying that the number of people who are immunocomromised actually makes up a much larger portion of the population?
ArcanaKnight 6 months ago
@ArcanaKnight I didn't say you were lying, I am talking about the pharmaceutical company who just want to sell their products and use people's bodies as a profiteering machine.
strider33612 6 months ago
@strider33612 "pharmaceutical company who just want to sell their products" That's just stupid. Of course they want to sell their products; replace "pharmaceutical" with "auto parts" or any other industry, and it would be just as true. Their goal of making a profit doesn't automatically mean that what they make is somehow dangerous; its in their best interest to make safe, effective products.
So, ARE you saying that the numbers of immunocompromised make up a large portion of the population?
ArcanaKnight 6 months ago
@ArcanaKnight You should know that I meant that the pharmaceutical company is not in the business of healing, but making a profit, even if it means harming innocent people with skewing drug trials to make their products look good. How many injections does a child need nowadays? When I was young we only got one. Now, every child is pumped full of toxic chemicals. Have humanity lost faith in the human immune system, that they have to rely on potions (sorcery as the bible call it), don't be fooled.
strider33612 6 months ago
@strider33612 "When I was young we only got one" You sure about that? By the late 70s, there were recommended vaccines for 7 different diseases (having just eradicated smallpox). Its not that we've "lost faith" in the immune system, its that we have developed treatments to stop some diseases from being endemic anymore. Before the polio vaccine was discovered, parents were scared to let their kids out during the summer over fear of the outbreaks; the immune system wasn't enough to fight it.
ArcanaKnight 6 months ago
I guess I shouldn't be surprised to find that someone who describes modern medical treatments as sorcery and potions wouldn't understand how integral vaccines are to our current standards of health, how its thanks to these simple preventative treatments that large portions of our population aren't routinely crippled for life because of the side-effects of these diseases. Vaccines are a victim of their own success; most people don't understand what life was like before they were developed.
ArcanaKnight 6 months ago
@ArcanaKnight One shot a year, my mother never used to follow up on my vaccines (it seems) I only got the shot during school opening, and everytime around that time, I would get a skin rash like clock work (my skin would turn white and flakey). Well when I got to jr high, my vaccination stoped, and ever since I have never took it. even as kids ppl with chicken pox would run around outside. I rarely got sick, but ppl who vac got sicker than me. with nutrition, I don't know when I last got sick.
strider33612 6 months ago
@strider33612 One shot a year is quite a bit different than just "we only got one". Also, I think anyone would agree that a mild skin irritation for a little bit is a small price to pay to protect yourself against half a dozen different very serious diseases.
"people who got vac got sicker than me" Some people have stronger immune systems than others. Also, that is anecdotal evidence based solely on one person's fallible memory, so its even more unreliable than normal.
ArcanaKnight 6 months ago
@ArcanaKnight Please..cut the bull shit statement. I know a woman who believes, and still believes in vaccines, admit that her mother got injured severely by the vaccine. I know a woman who also didn't get vaccinated one year, and said this is the first year who did not get sick like she normally does; I know a girl who died a day after getting vaccinated. So cut the crap! All these conflict of interest among these same people pharma pushers. Open your eyes dude. Ever heard of Ghost writing?
strider33612 5 months ago
@strider33612 Yes, as with all medical treatments, there are occasionally side effects because anything that can cure a problem could also potentially cause one (its an unfortunate fact of our physiology). What you're doing though is greatly over-inflating the risks of side effects, making up side effects, and denying any good that they do The side effects of vaccines are hundreds, and even thousands of times less likely to occur than the side effects of the diseases they guard against.
ArcanaKnight 5 months ago
@strider33612 That is the whole point of trying vaccinating everyone.
AnonymousVenom 9 months ago
@strider33612
Why train in self defence if there's always going to be someone out there who can beat you?
BioLogicalNerd 9 months ago
Fiona is an idiot
craftystu 1 year ago 17
@craftystu that is on pro-ven
acalow1989 9 months ago
Fiona ain't too bright.
mongobobo 1 year ago 2
correct, gold star, science doesnt change it is merely added to or refined.
and therefore before each refinement it is merely prevalent opinion.
and vaccination is about to be refined because the establishment keep saying its totally totally safe and yet doctors treating patients are privately telling them that there is a problem.
this is due to the fact that the govt, the experts and the public health services declared that the untrialed swine flu shot was totally totally safe.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
Before the internet, conspiracy theories were limited to discussions at parties and a few books. Now conspiracy theories are spreading and already are having a effect on society.
The symptoms of autism happen to come about around the same age as when a child would get vaccines. I guess it is human nature to assume the cause. Fortunately for us we have scientific research that is more useful than circumstantial evidence.
blabby102 1 year ago
@blabby102
this is true !
but if a significant portion of the medical profession are clearly stating that there is a problem here.
and are clearly stating that there is a significant problem with the research being done at present, in that it is invariably all paid for by a special interest groups.
then maybe it is time to pay attention.
remember the " the science is settled nonsense with global warming ".
and now it appears not to be so absolute.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Can you please tell me where you got the information that a "significant proportion" of medical professionals state that there is a problem? Although the word significant has different meanings in science than it's general use, from what I can see the only medical professionals that doubt vaccines are a few individuals that make a lot of noise.
Also, climate change HAS been settled by science. There is a worldwide scientific consensus. Again, only a few individuals disagree.
blabby102 1 year ago
@blabby102
not after the swine flu bullshit !
since when does science settle anything, it is only the opinion of the time.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Swine flu bullshit? Can you elaborate?
Science is only the "opinion of the time"??? What on earth makes you think this?
Science creates models that best fit the observed reality. Science is evidence based, there is no "opinion". In the vast majority of cases, science doesn't change, rather it is added to and refined.
Newton -> Einstein -> Standard model
Earth is flat -> circle -> sphere -> ellipsoid -> slightly pear shaped ellipsoid
Folk medicine -> Modern medicine
blabby102 1 year ago
@blabby102
the public know that it was a monumental fiasco and waste of money, to scare them into taking the shot. those that didnt take it are quietly smiling and telling everyone else why it was so silly to take an untrialed medicine along with any other vaccination questions that they have.
the bubble has burst on wether vaccination is completely safe and the medical establishment have a big problem them on their hands as no one really believes what They or the MSM say anymore.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
Fiona phillips needs fucking up the ass
SuperDanielclark 1 year ago
Fiona Phillips will say anything to get her face on TV. She's all about self promotion and obviously doesn't have brains to engage in serious discussion. The fact she has put more children at risk won't bother her at all.
swinkyuk 1 year ago
"I don't think it's proven and therefore there's no evidence!"
Yeah, sorry, but your thoughts are not evidence.
#facepalm
TheBigRMeister 1 year ago
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ch1v77 1 year ago
and on the subject of vaccination saved the world from a severe pandemic with the swine flu.
please explain why Poland did not have mass deaths.
why was there only 138 deaths, not including the 90 on the presidential plane which may have been pilot error ? when no-one was vaccinated in that country.
in fact why looking at a map of the world of deaths per country does Poland seem just average.
by the way the BBC says USA had only 2328 deaths, are they wrong, you said 12,000.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Once again, the fact is that we just got lucky with H1N1; even though it was milder than predicted, health services were still stretched to capacity, and next time we might not be so lucky. Here is an article in Nature discussing in a bit more detail what we actually learned from the pandemic.
ww w. nature. com/nature/journal/v463/n7278/full/463135b.html
BTW, I wasn't the one who said 12,000.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
" even though it was milder than PREDICTED "
shame that all those experts cant seem to admit that they overplayed it.
the only thing that was lucky about the entire fiasco was that the public in general did not swallow the propaganda that was continuously supplied, 24/7, and this i have to say even surprised me, as the public usually buy everything that is sold on the MSM.
BTW, it was the CDC that says 12,000, or is it approx 2,500, or is invisible dead people.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 What are you talking about? Again, I never said anything about 12,000 anything. You're confusing me with someone else.
And again, you're just faulting them for not having a crystal ball with 100% perfect vision of the future which is a ridiculous notion; the only thing it shows is that you clearly have no idea the kind of variables are involved. The simple fact is that We. Got. Lucky. It also deserves to be pointed out that none of the many doomsday predictions made
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
by the anti-vaxers came true. Where is your blame for them? They predicted all sorts of things from the WHO declaring martial law in order to usurp our sovereignty to using the H1N1 vaccine to sterilize/kill/brainwash the masses. Why are you not attacking them for their having been even more completely and utterly wrong? I only ask because by your logic ALL predictions should be 100% accurate or else they were part of some nefarious plot.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
why are you blaming me, or even trying to make out that i am some how in the camp of antivaxers.
why are you not clearly stating that the WHO are still recommending swine flu vaccination, despite the fact that many countries have now disbanded their programs for healthy people, under fives, because of bad reactions.
on the subject of brainwashing, with the MSM, exaggerating the health threat, then how are people to get a balanced view.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
it does not require 100% vision to know that it was hyped to sell vaccines.
and we are going to keep on saying it all over alternative media forever.
because i dont take untrialed medicines and therefore dont prescribe them without full informed consent. in other words stating clearly when they are experimental vaccines.
and with all the hoo ha that has happened this time, big pharma, the MSM, govt health nazis, will never get away with this type of thing again.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
Ask anyone who has Autism, who else in their family looks like they have it but is so highly functional, they are not seen as Autistic.
This is a joke. Two senior members of my family, one junior to myself, and me. My Wife's Father was the one on her side.
People against MMR clearly are not from Neurodiverse families.
paulwady 1 year ago
Fiona Phillips is an idiot, correlation does not mean cause. Over a large population their will always be cases where a child gets ill around the time of a vaccination.
menfearthought 1 year ago
Gah, how I dislike thee Fiona Phillips. it was of course obvious what her view was going to be before she opened her mouth as she's a fool (or maybe she just likes irl trolling).
As long as Fiona knows some random person who believes something, then that something *must* be true xD
trigsmum 1 year ago
and by the way !
i am not anti vacciantion.
for the seriously medically compromised, not a touch of asthma, vacciantion is probably a reasonable course of action.
there is however, no excuse for panicing the population over mild flu, and there was good indications that it was mild after mexico city admitted that only 140 people had died, not 1500 in a April 2009.
all these expert have obviously never read, " the boy that cried wolf ", it would behove them to do so.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
Fiona Phillips You rock !! I have a friend who has 6 children 4 of them were changed over night after recieving MMR. 2 children were fine . But they were repeatedly told that the vaccine wasn`t the cause of their Autism my friend & her husband said they know it was the vaccines has the change was straight after having them with each child . God didnt intend us to be vaccinated otherwise wed of been born with a syringe in our hands he gave us an immune system instead.
UkTruthSeeker2009 1 year ago
@UkTruthSeeker2009 So god intended small babies die the agonizing death by whooping cough. And god intended you to walk everywhere you go. Naked. Oh, and turn off your computer and wait for the rapture.
Anecdotes are not evidence. Period.
fly44d 1 year ago
@fly44d For all you know there might not have been any illnesses people lived longer before ,how do you know they aren`t` all man made viruses, deseases, Illnesses ?
You weren`t` born neither was I.I could even say the weather was better in those days and clothes could be limited to a palm leaf lol. He would want us to move on Technology wise as to make our lives comfortable But I dont Think hed be impressed in how some of the technology is used these days to the advantage of rich people. Do You
UkTruthSeeker2009 1 year ago
@UkTruthSeeker2009 Wow. The ignorance burns. I do know. The historical, paleontological and anthropological evidence show we lived short, harsh lives before modern medicine and technology. And religion didn't do anything to make anything better. In fact it has always been used by the rich and powerful to control the poor. Look at your leaders in the UK, they are all rich, powerful and religious.
fly44d 1 year ago
@fly44d You are forcing your opinion ,and I dont care if you are medical or anything else I dont like Vaccines and Im entitled to my opinion. I dont know about my Leaders as they all are mostly Zionists and could worship Lucifer for alls I care they might aswell with what they are helping to do to Palastine. People lived longer years ago were told many chapters from the bible were changed but Genesis supposed to be True ,It tells you in there that people lived a lot longer.Im not a church go`er
UkTruthSeeker2009 1 year ago
@UkTruthSeeker2009 Forcing my opinion? How do I do that? I am stating facts. Anti-Vax kills. Ditto what I said to gwellyn2.
fly44d 1 year ago
@UkTruthSeeker2009 i agree with you ,there are still a hand full of tribes in the world that have never had a cold or bug in their entire life and they live apart from the modern man ,these man made bugs are just a way of controlling the masses its like a religion to these pharmaceutical companies. so much greed in the world.
i dont trust any of them ,they are are total liars.
gwellyn2 1 year ago
@gwellyn2 Baloney. All peoples have illnesses of some sort or another. The peoples of Central America were decimated by small pox they didn't have immunity for. There are no utopias on this planet. Imagine if the Spanish brought vaccines with them instead their religion. They could have saved a whole culture.
fly44d 1 year ago
@fly44d well perhaps if you did some reseach you may find i am right ,i do wish people would not say things unless they have done their research.
gwellyn2 1 year ago
@gwellyn2 ??!!? Smallpox, measles, pertussis, polio are man made? No. It is historical FACT that tens of thousands of children died every year from those diseases right up to the start of vaccinating against them. It is now FACT that these diseases are coming back and that children are DYING TODAY from them when they didn't need to. I myself got pertussis a few years ago and that was hard, a baby going through that and dying is unimaginable. YOU are NOT right.
fly44d 1 year ago
@fly44d
but all the spanish brought WAS their religion and the smallpox
poor cental american indians didnt stand a chance, although i did hear a rumour that they ripped each others hearts out to make the sun come up in the morning.
if only jenner had been around with his coxpox ! eh !
having said that if you expect me to inject all that crap, that big pharma says is good for you, into my child, then i suggest you buy a stabproof vest, cause your gonna need one.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Ooh! the "big pharma" boogy man. They would love to get out of the vaccine business. Your kid crawling on the floor and putting their hands in their mouth got more live and different viruses than any injection. The FACT that vaccines prevent diseases and the deaths of tens of thousands of children makes it obvious that vaccines are good for you. Defend against that. The anti-vax stance kills children. Period.
fly44d 1 year ago
@fly44d can you please not force your belief system on other people, everyone is entitled to their opinion, who are you to say i'm wrong you no nothing of my research. and why i think the way i do.
i am always aware of people with huge i know it all ego's ,i can see how far your research has gone ,well thats fine you are totally entitled to your opinion as am i.
gwellyn2 1 year ago
@gwellyn2 I am sorry if facts offend you. You do not have the right to not be offended. Anti-Vax kills. Period. Google: Jenny McCarthy Body Count.
fly44d 1 year ago
@fly44d well you have the freedom to believe what you like ,so be it.
gwellyn2 1 year ago
@fly44d
Big Pharma would love to get out of the vaccine business ?.
How would they get any money off Bill Gates if they were not making them.
Anti-vax stance kills children period. Sorry not true ! disease kills children !
Vaccination is ment to prevent disease but unfortunately has many side effects that have been denied untill very recently.
Guess the MSM, WHO, and all the players in the swine flu hysteria are now wishing they had NOT. Experimental so called safe untrialed vaccines.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Yes, if the pharma companies were interested solely in making money, they would make much more from treating the diseases than they do from immunizations.
Yes, its the diseases which actually kill children, but its the propaganda of the anti-vax movement that is allowing these debilitating diseases to come back.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 The only side effects which are supposedly being denied are the ones that have been manufactured by the anti-vaxers. The actual side effects of vaccines are also hundreds and even thousands of times less likely to occur than the effects of the diseases they protect against.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Pharma doesn't make the profits off vaccines, they don't have patents on them and have to compete. How much do you pay for a jab? You wouldn't know.
Disease is prevented (fact) by vaccines. You stop vaccinations. You kill children. Sleep well.
GBS with the H1N1 vaccine last season was no more than the US average. Few people have any side affect. Those who do don't get vaccinated. Need the herd immunity to protect them. You are killing them.
fly44d 1 year ago
@fly44d
herd immunity for influenza,
please show me the medical book that says that !
i did not have the swine or seasonal flu jab and i am still alive.
whats the point in having a jab when the disease was very mild and your better just having the flu than risking the side effect that you admit, thankfully can happen.
how did all those big fancy doctors and experts manage to call this one so badly wrong in terms of virulence.
it was just mild flu and milder than seasonal.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 You didn't see me say herd immunity for influenza. I was talking pertussis, small pox, polio.
Very nice you are still alive. Thousands did not survive H1N1. 12,000 died in the US, 90% were under 65 yrs old. It wasn't off. H1N1 left the elderly alone, possibly from earlier flu seasons. The young didn't have that immunity unless they were vaccinated.
You are dangerously, arrogantly ignorant.
fly44d 1 year ago
@fly44d
12,000 died ! and 300,000,000 million survived !
is that above average or below average for the yearly flu.
me thinks that its probably well below average !
it was mild flu, very mild actually !
and never once during the whole debacle did anyone from the govt, MSM, health agencies, in any western country, say that it was an untrialed vaccine.
that sounds like compromising peoples informed consent as well as hyping an already scary situation to benefit big pharma.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
Comment removed
fly44d 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 300,000,000 million. That is a lot. 50,000 times the number of people on the planet. Shows that you don't think, you just spew what you believe and want to be true. You can't be bothered to spell Guillaine Barre Syndrome write and you expect anyone to respect anything you say? Look up Arrogance of Ignorance.
fly44d 1 year ago
@fly44d
after you have eaten my cockmeat sandwich !
look up petty dickhead !
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 LOL! I rest my case.
fly44d 1 year ago
@fly44d
you rest your case, but you never touched my sandwich !
at least you thought it was funny.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@gwellyn2 They seem to forget how many deaths,misscarriages and Gillian bare syndrome arisen from the Swine Flu Vaccine ,then expect people to Trust them.
There was a news article about Twin Baby Girls who recently died as a result of the Measles vaccine and many more cases similar abroad. I don`t` think the parents of the deceased would agree with these swear by the vaccine people.
UkTruthSeeker2009 1 year ago
@UkTruthSeeker2009 Shit, you can't even get the Guillaine Barre Syndrome spelled right. And you wonder why you get no respect? Ignorance kills.
fly44d 1 year ago
@UkTruthSeeker2009 dont bother waisting youtime with paid idots ,if they want to kill their kids and change human DNA leave them to it ,its their choice.
gwellyn2 1 year ago
@gwellyn2 Of course, because the only reason why someone could possibly disagree with you is because they're being paid to, not because your position is harmful and has little or no actual evidence supporting it.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
Fiona Phillips You rock !! I have a friend who has 6 children 4 of them were changed over night after recieving MMR. 2 children were fine . But they were repeatedly told that the vaccine wasn`t the cause of their Autism my friend & her husband said they know it was the vaccines has the change was straight after having them with each child .
UkTruthSeeker2009 1 year ago
and then Lord Ashdown or should we call him by his proper name Paddy Pantsdown coming over all professorial and lecturing us on a specialist topic that he has no special knowledge of but seemingly knows whats best for all.
cause if i was asked, without having special knowledge, about a topic like that, i would say that you need to ask an expert. even with all the hoo ha that has been in the papers and MSM.
this prick said doctors raising questions have alot to answer for.
and no-one blinked
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Lecturing on a specialist topic which they have no special knowledge? Now, where does that sound familiar? Isn't that exactly like the politicians, actresses, nutritionists, homeopaths, naturopaths, etc. which make up the majority of the "experts" anti-vaxers point to when claiming vaccines cause autism even though they don't have any special knowledge in either immunology or neurology?
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
and this is the classic of all classics, Dr Liam Fox, talking to us about public responsibility.
well if only he had been thinking like that while he was nailing his expenses for,
approx £22,000 and then had the cheek to appeal it.
dont anyone say, " gaining or obtaing a pecuniary or monetary advantage thru deception, under Sec 15a, 15b, 16, of the Theft Act 1968. "
and then has the audacity to lecture the common people on responsibility, fucking criminal just like all dodgy MPs.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
ordinary people are horrified by what their govts done during swine flu !
even more disgusted that their has been no public inquiries.
gobsmacked by the fact that people raising serious questions, about influence and untrialed medicines are treated like pariahs by the MSM or not given airtime at all. Wodarg and BMJ.
big pharma had to go and push their luck and ended up killing the golden goose. monumental hubris.
even that vaccine pharma shill ben goldacre has been caught at the lies.
markscott7777777 1 year ago 2
@markscott7777777 And exactly what financial ties does Ben Goldacre supposedly have to pharma companies that makes him a pharma shill? The only thing I've found is a writing award (that includes a plaque and a small cash prize) that is regularly sponsored by a pharma company which he won ONCE, but I'd hardly consider that enough of a tie to justify calling him a shill. Could it be that, as when you used it with me, you're using it as a baseless ad-hom attack against those with whom disagree?
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
thought about this one for a while !
but if you dont know why ben goldacre is in trouble then i am going to let you find out on your own, because its devastating.
i will give you a hint its to do with his dad Dr. Michael Goldacre and some research he did, with peer reviewed publication in 1990.
goto youtube nickwallis1 and his ben goldacre upload.
i dont use baseless ad hom attacks; i name call, its more fun.
vaccination is and has fallen, this doctor think so !
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Wow, so the best you can do is a single study his father did which actually condemned a specific vaccine for increasing risk of viral meningitis (one that has since been removed based in part on such studies)? This is nothing but conspiracy mongering nonsense. Here's an article dispelling the other nonsense from the AoA story your claim came from:
ww w. bnet. com/ blog/drug-business/attack-on-autism-critic-8217s-8220secret-8221-father-doesn-8217t-stand-up-to-scrutiny/5564
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
then why has ben goldacre not replied to the allegation.
and i quote, he has replied, " every single expert that has expressed an opinion on the MMR, has said it is totally safe "
except of couse his dad, who is an expert, and shortly after his paper was published in 1990, the original MMR was withdrawn, the general public, i bet dont even know that there was a problem related to meningitis, with the original MMR Pluserix.
they do now !
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Considering his comments were referring to the current MMR shots and were made almost 2 decades after the vaccine his father's study was looking at had already been withdrawn, what exactly does he need to reply about?
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago 2
@ArcanaKnight
why the change ! and why the secrecy about the change in the MMR !
not really well publicised this little known important fact ! eh !
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
yeah that is right ! if MMR is so safe as you say !
why have the medical authorities kept this one so secret !
i will tell you, in the UK, during the 90's, one of the biggests killers amongst young people was meningitis.
and the spike during the 90's came out of the blue and was very difficult to see how or why it had occured.
some thought it was just a normal fluctuation but smart docs had good cause to think that it may have been coming from vaccination.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Why do you keep believing these things were secret? Just because they didn't take out ads in tv and newspapers announcing it, doesn't mean that it was a secret.
Not true. There may have been a rise in the number of cases of meningitis, but the deaths from it were remained constant through to the mid 90's:
journals. lww. com/aidsonline/_layouts/oaks.journals/ImageView.aspx?k=aidsonline:1999:08200:00014&i=FF1
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
are you certain ?
and i dont understand what point you have made regarding secrecy !
a study was done ! it showed that the Pluserix MMR vaccine, still used in africa, had caused a spike in meningitis cases and the reaction was not to tell the public.
just withdraw it and say nothing, keep it a private matter; where have i heard that before, oh yes, tony blairs excuse for not vaccinating his child with MMR.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Am I certain about what? The meningitis death rate? If so, then yes, that was what the link I gave showed.
And again, the withdrawal was not secret. It was announced to pharmacies as well as in a press release on 9/14/02.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
so it was announced to the professional people but not really to the public, with the sort of fanfare that the MSM are so capable of on health care issues !
i wonder why ? and off course why the delay, the study was done in 1990.
if you had to explain to some parent, that their child died of meningitis, even once, then your whole attitude would change towards this issue.
but you just stick to your guns, and remember to keep taking all the shots recommended by CDC.
goodbye
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Again, wrong. Did you miss where I said it was announced to the press?
And I have no idea why the UK waited so long before pulling it, but then neither do you. The difference between us is that you immediately jump to the certainty that it was a nefarious plot whereas I'm comfortable saying I don't know, though I'm inclined to believe its just another example of government efficiency.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago 2
@ArcanaKnight
your right, i must have missed it !
its because things have to be repeatedly and constantly replayed over and over again for me to notice anything.
i am sure the public are the same, unless they are spoon fed info, 24/7, accurate or not information, then it just does not penetrate !
i wonder if its the same with innaccurate info, like say WMD/Iraq. i wonder if you play that lie,on the MSM repeatedly, then the public will believe it, or is it a nefarious plot.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 If that is really what it takes to convince you of anything, no wonder you believe the anti-vax propaganda. Not only does it get all this air-time on tv specials and "special reports", it has celebrity spokespeople, several books, a very vocal base, and even a couple movies proponents have made; the only thing they're missing is the scientific evidence supporting their claims, but as you've said, that isn't necessary to convince you.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight Besides, it was a drug recall story, how much coverage were you seriously expecting? If they run them at all, its usually only mentioned once (and briefly), and even then it is usually buried deep in the paper/among other stories. I've seen stories about "what's cool this summer" (an actual COVER STORY Time magazine ran) get more followup then most drug recall stories.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
and the only thing that you are missing is the scientific evidence on safety and efficacy. which doesnt exist for vaccines. why is that.
why is it that all the medicines in the world have to go thru safety and efficacy trials as an industry standard, but vaccines do not, to the same standard as other medicines.
glad though that you accept it did not get much coverage.
dont worry were making up for it now, and all your huffing and puffing wont change that.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Actually they are tested before they are licensed for use (at least for ones used in the US); almost all national immunization programs also have a system for reporting adverse effects (such as VAERS) to keep an eye on possible effects that the initial testing may have missed. I understand your criteria for belief is basically just whoever is the loudest, but you really need to be more discerning of where you get your information.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
testing for immunogenicity is not and never has been medical trials for safety and efficacy.
the medical profession tried to keep that secret knowledge secret. it is not anymore.
last year, the general population, despite the efforts of MSM, largely ignored their pleas for us all to get vaccinated, maybe not in USA, but certainly across europe,
and are now growing angry at the lack of investigation by the authorities, into what appears to be an exaggerated threat.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 That is nothing more than blaming doctors of not being able to perfectly predict the future. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't with you people; you blame them for being cautious when we get lucky and the worst doesn't happen, and you'd blame them if they wait too long and it does happen. We got lucky that there wasn't a pandemic, that's all; all that blaming them will do is make them too gun-shy in the future to take action in time to do anything about it.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago 2
@markscott7777777 Yes, I admit that drug recall stories don't usually make headlines, but I disagree with your implication that it is due to anything nefarious. There is no great conspiracy about it; most people just consider drug recall stories boring, and news agencies don't tend to focus on stories people think are boring because they don't sell papers/attract viewers.
Also, what exactly is the point of making a fuss now about a vaccine that was removed from the market a decade ago?
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
it was removed from the market place a decade ago !
but it is not generally known to the public that this is so, or the reasons why.
it is still available in africa, cause it is cheaper, and we must all question the veracity, of drug companies, and govt licensing people who seem to think that it is not safe enough for our little darlings, so lets off load it in africa, and pretend that there is nothing wrong.
more than 15% unvaccinated and no herd immunity effect.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 You keep acting as if the recall was done surreptitiously, which it wasn't. As will most recall stories (not just drug recalls), they are usually given very little notice by the media because the general public considers them to be boring. Its as simple as that. You have nothing to blame but the public's apathy towards the subject and short attention spans for it not being generally known.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
it was done surreptiously ! i was there, you were not.
young doctors were warned not to discuss it as it would be harmful to their careers, and most went along with that.
some are now regretting that situation and most are scared of the legal ramifactions.
only time will tell now. and its going to be soon thanks to youtube.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Of course, what a cunning plan; they "surreptitiously" withdrew the vaccine by announcing it to the press as well as thousands of pharmacists across the country. How very sneaky of them; how on earth could such a plan have possibly failed *massive eye roll*. You accuse these companies of perpetrating supposedly ingeniously nefarious plans, but what you actually attribute to them is just too monumentally idiotic to have ever been done as you claim.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
announcing something once in a newspaper and by letter to pharmacists is not a fanfare. and is quickly forgotten about if noticed at all.
i am begining to think that you dont believe that the MSM is used occassionally to influence the population, and vice versa to keep information from the public by publishing on inside page of a paper once.
instead of the repititious cocophany that MSM television, telling us all day long that untrialed vaccines H1N1, are safe.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 As pretty much any MSF doctor could attest, drugs like that are used in places like Africa because they can't afford the safer/more effective ones and often treatments that occasionally have serious side effects are still better than no treatments at all. I agree that ideally it would be different, but that is sadly the truth of the world we currently live in.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
just exposing the situation and how it is misused.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 No, you're just selfishly using the situation to spout your half-baked theories, theories which are admittedly based more on who's the loudest than the actual facts and evidence. If you wanted to actually do something useful about it, try donating to MSF or raise awareness of it's need.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago 2
@ArcanaKnight
i do admit i am using the situation to get people to ask important questions.
whats wrong with asking questions ?
i did not make the situation, MSM, govt, and big pharma made a bad call, and members of the profession who were put under pressure, and some did lose their jobs, in order to take a vaccine that they knew was un-necessary.
dismissal leagl cases will be very interesting and we can trust youtube for airtime, especially now people are doubting MSM cover.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Okay, so the Mainstream Media outlets, the pharmaceutical companies, the governments of several nations (if not all of them), not to mention countless numbers of individual doctors who were practicing in those nations were all in on it; anyone else? You do realize that conspiracies become exponentially less likely to succeed the more people are added to them, not more so, right?
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
" the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it "
and youtube appear to have changed the font page, making this conversation, more difficult to continue. no, sorry, its an imagination conspiracy.
vaccination has fallen, not because the lies, but because ordinary doctors are begining to say privately to patients that everything is not rosy inthe garden, and they are being prevented from speaking out more openly because we all know what happens they do, dont we.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@mark Much as creationist beliefs were on the rise because science teachers were telling their students about "the strength and weaknesses of evolution" and promoting Intelligent Design.
A view that dissents from the majority isn't any less false just because it isn't the majority opinion. They are also no more "prevented" from speaking out than any other pseudoscience proponent is "prevented" from speaking out about topics unsupported by the evidence; they're just afraid of the laughter.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago 2
@ArcanaKnight
nonsense ! doctors who speak out on this issue.
come under severe scrutiny by the medical establishment.
you yourself have admitted during our discussion, on several occasion that vacciantion does not come without risk.
but when a member of the profession comes out and says something against vacciantion, its all closed ranks, behind science has not proved this.
followed by tut tut, shocking irresponsibility, then struck off.
need i say, " free speech "
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@markscott7777777 Are you referring to Wakefield, or do you have some other specific instance in mind that doesn't involve someone who's committed gross ethics violations as well as research fraud.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
and equally, on discussion with a public health colleague about the possible mandation of the swine flu vaccine.
i was curtly told that i was entitled to my viewpoint !
this did make me chuckle, especially when i pointed out that legal defense of self defense was applicable in those circumstances.
not fully understanding my point, i urged him to immediately, try and vaccinate me, without my written consent, and see what happens.
i am still laughing but he isnt.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
the swine flu and all the shennaingans that went on with it are there to see.
and all recorded, and uploaded to youtube and other sites and closely monitored scientifically examined and thoroughly investigated.
and in the UK, where 85% of the population did not take the vaccine, people are begining to ask the authorities, why was it so necessary to be vaccinated. the program for vaccinating healthy kids was quietly droped when the 79% parental consent refusal came in.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
Comment removed
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago
@ArcanaKnight
and when i qualified measles related encephalitis was a rare complication, less than 1,10,000 cases, now its supposedly 1,100 or less and those results are from studies done in africa where it is still endemic.
and the vaccine they are getting is the one not good enough for our kids, because it has been linked to encephalitis. and of course withdrawn.
and use epidemiological data from africa to continue to scare parents in western countries.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
if you have not already guessed it yet, i was one of the medical students at that lecture and i shit you not liam donaldson said those words.
liam and his pals, brought you the swine flu hysteria and vaccination program which has at last shown them all up for the bunch of medical Nazis that they are.
they, liam, prof oxford, david salisbury, prof anderson and gordon duff should remember what eventually happened to the Nazis before history decides, at long last, to repeat itself.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
the main reason given to medical students in 1989, when MMR was introduced, who questioned the fact that it had not been fully tested, was
a single vaccine will save the NHS millions, due to the reduction in number of visits to the GP. and i quote
" it is going to be government policy "
the person who said this was a much younger liam donaldson, who had not been elevated to the lofty status of chief medical officer.
for guess what introducing the MMR !
markscott7777777 1 year ago
also when doctors like, Dr Liam Fox, real doctor who has-been otherwise occupied with being a politician and nailing his expenses, pulls the old public responsibility nonsense arguement, ya da ya da yah !
then reply with these words, seeing as he is a doctor,
" do you declare, under penalty of full commercial liability that the product that you are recommending will not cause damage or long term side effects "
get him or the record, and then get his signature.
he will NOT reply.
markscott7777777 1 year ago
dr wakefield went about the study the wrong way..but does not mean his ideas of how this is happening are wrong..and it was brain deer the pathetic journalist who brought all this out in the media..not wakefield
wonadewona 1 year ago
@wonadewona It was Deer who brought what out in the media? You couldn't be talking about the false claim that autism was caused by the MMR jab, that was stated by Wakefield in the press conference after he published his study.
Yes, the fact that Wakefield committed scientific fraud doesn't mean that his hypothesis was wrong by itself (though it is a strong indicator); its all the evidence that has been collected since then has continually shown that to be the case.
ArcanaKnight 1 year ago 7
@ArcanaKnight Good for you.
I believe that these MMR kids were born Autistic but were high-functioners. This changed and Autism got on top of them. Maybe the vaccine lowered their ability to learn and pretend to be Neurotypical?
paulwady 1 year ago
autism is what they are calling vaccine damage... just because that alot dont become injured..does not mean vaccines are safe..infact at this point in time i think its coming up as 1 in 60 injured... and thats just the autism named ,brain damage..how about all the other reactions... you pro vaccine people that attack people who do not want to put poisons into their children AFTER seeing the evidence for themselves just have no idea...
wonadewona 1 year ago