My favorite genre is folk or folk metal from several different countries, from the Americas across Europe into the Middle East, Africa and Eastern Asia. Without people practicing their cultural heritage, we'd lose so much of the diversity that makes the world interesting.
I would agree and disagree with you. Nationalism in itself is certainly aimless considering the progress we've made, and with the internet, I have a feeling before our generation dies out borders will start to slowly become obsolete. However, I would argue that nationality as an ethnic identity is very important to maintain the diversity and culture of the world.
I disagree. As an Australian by birth who has chosen England as my home and identity, i feel that having a shared national identity can overcome other divisions. Civic nationalism can overcome race, religion, sexual orientation, gender etc.
Nationalism could be extremely beneficial in our globalised world.
I think you'd enjoy living abroad for a few years, it is a great way to get to learn what differences in culture are really about. National identity isn't a problem in itself - it's the way it's often tacked onto hateful ideology that is.
There's no problem with having Scottish identity or British identity (or both) - a pride in and fondness for your own culture (whether you are conscious of it or not) is surely a necessity to lead a happy life.
@plevyman Culture's fine, I'm not talking about that. If you like your country for reasons beyond simply being born there, that's fine too. However, even on a relatively moderate dose of it, national identity can distance us enough from others that it can create significant divisions which can be problematic. The moral of the story is be proud of your country if there's a practical reason to be proud of it and don't get caught up in it.
@Orygyn I don't agree with your statement: "national identity can distance us enough from others that it can create significant divisions". Differences and divisions are not the same thing. It's only a lack of understanding of *other* cultures that creates divisions - I'd argue that fully understanding other cultures requires a strong understanding of your own, which is entirely consistent with having a strong sense of national identity.
@plevyman We probably differ on how significant "significant" means. I'm talking about the divisions that people expressed in my previous video where some call themselves Scottish but not British and insist that it's "English tories" holding us back. But understanding or simply respecting cultures can offset those differences.
I think that you're missing a few aspects of what it means to be nationalistic. Firstly, you implied that nationality is merely a product of birthplace. I would argue, that in a metropolitan like america (especially in the cities) it becomes more of a preference. Don't you swear by your favorite keyboard company? Same concept. Secondly, everything has positive and negative effects, but I think a drive to increase the well being of those in your nation, is and has been a huge factor in improvmnt
@Rangerfury144 The point is my favourite keyboard company would be determined by what I think of their keyboards. If Scotland had an economy which put everyone else to shame, lots of social freedom and the vast majority of the citizens were incredibly happy, I'd have quite a few very legitimate reasons to like living here. What I'm arguing against is nationalism based ONLY on place of birth. If you have practical reasons for liking your country that's perfectly fine.
@Orygyn I agree. I like Canada because it's a great country, not because I was born here. For example, I'm not sure, but I doubt I'd be so proud of where I was born if I was born in the U.S.
Scottland should be its own country. Scottland is for Scottsmen. Ireland is for the Irish. There are two types of Nationalism you must keep in mind. The BNP is a nationalist-right wing movement, and it is reaction. Left-wing Nationalism, such as Irish Nationalism, Scottish Nationalism is striving for national indepedence.
My argument for Scottish indepdence is that British Imperialism dominates your country, and other countries economically. To be freed from that is the first step. Thanks!
@Nothiean All very well, but the relationship between the UK and Scotland is not one of empire to colony. The highland regiments fought alongside the English to colonise India, Africa and more recently parts of the Muslim world. Scottish industrialists were as much part of the industrial revolution as English ones. Our current prime minister's father was Scottish; our last PM was Scottish and the one before that was born in Scotland and educated in NE England.
you dont , apparently the majority of Scotchmen, Basques , Corsicans ,Catalonians ,Flemish etc etc do.
Like it or not ethnocentrism is the default position.
Now idiotic people as you confuse ethnicity with nationalism, and nationalism with racism but that's a consequences of :
a) being a leftist and leftism ,retardation and inconsistency go hand in hand.Im sure you have the same views about a future Palestinian state, right?
b) you haven't ever prosecuted for an identity to understand the benefits a state provides to an ethnicity.
c) or you aren't educated enough to know the practical and on efficiency benefits of having a nation state, from crime, to tax paying,to civil peace, political stability etc.The fact is multiculturalism hasn't worked anywhere yet,& that tells us a lot.
Open a book or 2 and educate yrself about european history of the past 300 years; a constant drive for nation states.
@AmetReloads Depends which poll you look at. I said nothing about ethnicity or racism but while ethnicity is determined by your genes, a national identity is something you can adopt or discard. Adopting it doesn't make you racist but I do think it's pretty closed-minded and outdated.
a) Generalisation/ad hom. Israel/Palestine is an idiotic fight over nothing but they both have a right to exist.
b) People provide benefits not intangible concepts like states...
@AmetReloads ...and whether or not I've been prosecuted over it is irrelevant.
c) That's just like when someone makes a claim, I ask for evidence, and they say "if you don't know it already, you're an idiot". A more gullible person might take your word for it and go off looking for something that supports it. However, on this channel, the one who makes the claim provides the evidence. In this case, that's you. The names of the books will do but the page numbers would be even better.
i love your videos mate. i think there would need to be some pretty serious problems with the current governing arrangements to really justify independence.
I 100% agree on Nationalism. It's the same as people who support various teams etc. It's a tribal mentality that is clearly an evolutionary hang over but it gives people a sense of group identity, comradeship and belonging. I don't really care where someone is form, I care far more about their ideas. I do however think that Scotland is being held back by right wing ideology of conservative voting little Englanders and would do well to be rid of them and go our own way with the European union.
Yep, it's silly, until another nation comes along and wants to destroy your nation, so unless all nations renounce their sovereignty all at once your kind of stuck with it.
From the SNP Manifesto (in brief) - "No-one care more about Scotland's success than the people who live here and that, ultimately, is why independence is the best choice for our future." I don't see the logic...
@Orygyn@KrassSucks DO you really think anyone cares more about the success of Scotland than the Scottish People? Do you think that most people in England want what is best for Scotland, over and above what is best for England? If they had a choice who do you think would win out? It seems perfectly logical that no one wants what is best for a country more than the people who actually live there.
@Orygyn it's a perfectly valid argument for independence. If the entire population of Scotland vote one way (let's say in Scotland's interest) and the entire population of England vote another way (Let's say in England's interest). The UK decision would always lie in the favour of England purely because they have a larger population. It's pretty basic stuff.
@GravityofReality Take the original statement and substitute any Scottish county with Scotland, frame independence in this case as being independence from Scotland and you'll see the problem. On it's own it's an appeal to our nationalistic tendencies, it depends ENTIRELY on other arguments to have any merit at all. It's just a soundbite.
@Orygyn That's a fair point as an abstract concept, but it doesn't change the fact that the Scottish people are forced to endure political decisions that the vast majority of the country did not vote for purely because a substantial minority of England vote in the interests of the wealthy English aristocracy.
Of all the despicable ideas that mankind has ever come up with, the nation-state and all that it entails -namely national identity/pride, nationalism and patriotism- take the cake indeed.
Thanks! You just saved my project1
sam26Original2men 4 months ago
@sam26Original2men No problem.
Orygyn 4 months ago
My favorite genre is folk or folk metal from several different countries, from the Americas across Europe into the Middle East, Africa and Eastern Asia. Without people practicing their cultural heritage, we'd lose so much of the diversity that makes the world interesting.
Reghedable 5 months ago in playlist More videos from Orygyn
@Reghedable I think I'm going to need to follow up on this video. So many people seem to think I'm criticising culture.
Orygyn 5 months ago
@Orygyn My apologies, I was worried I was misunderstanding the purpose of your video. Yes, it'd be a good idea to clarify that position I think.
Reghedable 5 months ago
I would agree and disagree with you. Nationalism in itself is certainly aimless considering the progress we've made, and with the internet, I have a feeling before our generation dies out borders will start to slowly become obsolete. However, I would argue that nationality as an ethnic identity is very important to maintain the diversity and culture of the world.
Reghedable 5 months ago in playlist More videos from Orygyn
ooohhh you sound like a jehova witness, lol jk, i'm on the fence about this issue.
CoreyHartRules 5 months ago
@CoreyHartRules LOL.
Orygyn 5 months ago
I disagree. As an Australian by birth who has chosen England as my home and identity, i feel that having a shared national identity can overcome other divisions. Civic nationalism can overcome race, religion, sexual orientation, gender etc.
Nationalism could be extremely beneficial in our globalised world.
Cat1981England 6 months ago
@Cat1981England If that's the case for anyone I don't object to it it's just something I wouldn't adopt myself.
Orygyn 6 months ago
I think you'd enjoy living abroad for a few years, it is a great way to get to learn what differences in culture are really about. National identity isn't a problem in itself - it's the way it's often tacked onto hateful ideology that is.
There's no problem with having Scottish identity or British identity (or both) - a pride in and fondness for your own culture (whether you are conscious of it or not) is surely a necessity to lead a happy life.
plevyman 6 months ago
@plevyman Culture's fine, I'm not talking about that. If you like your country for reasons beyond simply being born there, that's fine too. However, even on a relatively moderate dose of it, national identity can distance us enough from others that it can create significant divisions which can be problematic. The moral of the story is be proud of your country if there's a practical reason to be proud of it and don't get caught up in it.
Orygyn 6 months ago
@Orygyn I don't agree with your statement: "national identity can distance us enough from others that it can create significant divisions". Differences and divisions are not the same thing. It's only a lack of understanding of *other* cultures that creates divisions - I'd argue that fully understanding other cultures requires a strong understanding of your own, which is entirely consistent with having a strong sense of national identity.
plevyman 6 months ago
@plevyman We probably differ on how significant "significant" means. I'm talking about the divisions that people expressed in my previous video where some call themselves Scottish but not British and insist that it's "English tories" holding us back. But understanding or simply respecting cultures can offset those differences.
Orygyn 6 months ago
I think that you're missing a few aspects of what it means to be nationalistic. Firstly, you implied that nationality is merely a product of birthplace. I would argue, that in a metropolitan like america (especially in the cities) it becomes more of a preference. Don't you swear by your favorite keyboard company? Same concept. Secondly, everything has positive and negative effects, but I think a drive to increase the well being of those in your nation, is and has been a huge factor in improvmnt
Rangerfury144 6 months ago
@Rangerfury144 The point is my favourite keyboard company would be determined by what I think of their keyboards. If Scotland had an economy which put everyone else to shame, lots of social freedom and the vast majority of the citizens were incredibly happy, I'd have quite a few very legitimate reasons to like living here. What I'm arguing against is nationalism based ONLY on place of birth. If you have practical reasons for liking your country that's perfectly fine.
Orygyn 6 months ago
You look like a Jew.
CmCunt 6 months ago
@CmCunt Probably.
Orygyn 6 months ago
I, personally, am EXTREMELY proud to have been born in Canada XD, but I guess I kind of get what you're saying.
PrideXentric 6 months ago
@PrideXentric I'm all for liking the country if you have good reasons for it I just personally wouldn't use being born there as one.
Orygyn 6 months ago
@Orygyn I agree. I like Canada because it's a great country, not because I was born here. For example, I'm not sure, but I doubt I'd be so proud of where I was born if I was born in the U.S.
PrideXentric 6 months ago
this video is absolutely brilliant, subbed xx
MissMansonThe2nd 6 months ago
@MissMansonThe2nd Thank you 8<{D-
Orygyn 6 months ago
Scottland should be its own country. Scottland is for Scottsmen. Ireland is for the Irish. There are two types of Nationalism you must keep in mind. The BNP is a nationalist-right wing movement, and it is reaction. Left-wing Nationalism, such as Irish Nationalism, Scottish Nationalism is striving for national indepedence.
My argument for Scottish indepdence is that British Imperialism dominates your country, and other countries economically. To be freed from that is the first step. Thanks!
Nothiean 6 months ago
@Nothiean I don't see it as an empire, I see it like this: county/state - country - union - global union (eventually).
Orygyn 6 months ago
@Orygyn The problem is, it -is- an empire, and as long as the relationship between countries is Imperialist, it will be one.
I see global union too, Orygyn, a Socialist World Republic, but indepdence is needed before that goal can be realized. (Oh, and socialism!)
Nothiean 6 months ago
@Nothiean All very well, but the relationship between the UK and Scotland is not one of empire to colony. The highland regiments fought alongside the English to colonise India, Africa and more recently parts of the Muslim world. Scottish industrialists were as much part of the industrial revolution as English ones. Our current prime minister's father was Scottish; our last PM was Scottish and the one before that was born in Scotland and educated in NE England.
plevyman 6 months ago
you dont , apparently the majority of Scotchmen, Basques , Corsicans ,Catalonians ,Flemish etc etc do.
Like it or not ethnocentrism is the default position.
Now idiotic people as you confuse ethnicity with nationalism, and nationalism with racism but that's a consequences of :
a) being a leftist and leftism ,retardation and inconsistency go hand in hand.Im sure you have the same views about a future Palestinian state, right?
...
AmetReloads 6 months ago
@AmetReloads ...
b) you haven't ever prosecuted for an identity to understand the benefits a state provides to an ethnicity.
c) or you aren't educated enough to know the practical and on efficiency benefits of having a nation state, from crime, to tax paying,to civil peace, political stability etc.The fact is multiculturalism hasn't worked anywhere yet,& that tells us a lot.
Open a book or 2 and educate yrself about european history of the past 300 years; a constant drive for nation states.
AmetReloads 6 months ago
@AmetReloads Depends which poll you look at. I said nothing about ethnicity or racism but while ethnicity is determined by your genes, a national identity is something you can adopt or discard. Adopting it doesn't make you racist but I do think it's pretty closed-minded and outdated.
a) Generalisation/ad hom. Israel/Palestine is an idiotic fight over nothing but they both have a right to exist.
b) People provide benefits not intangible concepts like states...
TBC
Orygyn 6 months ago
@AmetReloads ...and whether or not I've been prosecuted over it is irrelevant.
c) That's just like when someone makes a claim, I ask for evidence, and they say "if you don't know it already, you're an idiot". A more gullible person might take your word for it and go off looking for something that supports it. However, on this channel, the one who makes the claim provides the evidence. In this case, that's you. The names of the books will do but the page numbers would be even better.
Orygyn 6 months ago
i love your videos mate. i think there would need to be some pretty serious problems with the current governing arrangements to really justify independence.
gothatfunk 6 months ago
@gothatfunk Indeed. Thanks.
Orygyn 6 months ago
it absolutely is...except during the world cup :D
wonderpope 6 months ago
@wonderpope LOL.
Orygyn 6 months ago
I 100% agree on Nationalism. It's the same as people who support various teams etc. It's a tribal mentality that is clearly an evolutionary hang over but it gives people a sense of group identity, comradeship and belonging. I don't really care where someone is form, I care far more about their ideas. I do however think that Scotland is being held back by right wing ideology of conservative voting little Englanders and would do well to be rid of them and go our own way with the European union.
GravityofReality 6 months ago
@GravityofReality Fair enough.
Orygyn 6 months ago
Also, I like battered Mars bars....
KrassSucks 6 months ago
Yep, it's silly, until another nation comes along and wants to destroy your nation, so unless all nations renounce their sovereignty all at once your kind of stuck with it.
DiwataMan 6 months ago
@DiwataMan If something like that happens for that reason I'll be calling both countries out on how retarded they're being.
Orygyn 6 months ago
From the SNP Manifesto (in brief) - "No-one care more about Scotland's success than the people who live here and that, ultimately, is why independence is the best choice for our future." I don't see the logic...
KrassSucks 6 months ago
@KrassSucks LOL and this is the party that'll determine what Scotland will look like if independence does come? Interesting...
Orygyn 6 months ago
@Orygyn @KrassSucks DO you really think anyone cares more about the success of Scotland than the Scottish People? Do you think that most people in England want what is best for Scotland, over and above what is best for England? If they had a choice who do you think would win out? It seems perfectly logical that no one wants what is best for a country more than the people who actually live there.
GravityofReality 6 months ago
@GravityofReality I don't have a problem with that part of it, it's the fact that they use that as an argument for independence.
Orygyn 6 months ago
@Orygyn it's a perfectly valid argument for independence. If the entire population of Scotland vote one way (let's say in Scotland's interest) and the entire population of England vote another way (Let's say in England's interest). The UK decision would always lie in the favour of England purely because they have a larger population. It's pretty basic stuff.
GravityofReality 6 months ago
@GravityofReality Take the original statement and substitute any Scottish county with Scotland, frame independence in this case as being independence from Scotland and you'll see the problem. On it's own it's an appeal to our nationalistic tendencies, it depends ENTIRELY on other arguments to have any merit at all. It's just a soundbite.
Orygyn 6 months ago
@Orygyn That's a fair point as an abstract concept, but it doesn't change the fact that the Scottish people are forced to endure political decisions that the vast majority of the country did not vote for purely because a substantial minority of England vote in the interests of the wealthy English aristocracy.
GravityofReality 6 months ago
Of all the despicable ideas that mankind has ever come up with, the nation-state and all that it entails -namely national identity/pride, nationalism and patriotism- take the cake indeed.
nekwidnimis 6 months ago
@nekwidnimis Agreed.
Orygyn 6 months ago
hahaah! thats funny as fuck.. "you fell out of your mum... " XD
dayum, i still havnt had a deep fried mars bars.. are they nice?
cool vid.. thumbs up the noooo ; )
SkidRowRadio 6 months ago
@SkidRowRadio Yeh Coughlan said it at his 2009 Edinburgh fringe show. Deep fried mars bars are disgusting basically.
Orygyn 6 months ago