Do Thy Will. Very well done. But mohamad should be removed as he isn't believed to be divine, a savior, or miraculous, including no healings, resurections or other fables. (Except one where he split the Moon in half (?!). Also he actually existed as a very evil mass-murderer, rapist, terrorist war-lord. So he doesn't fit. Oddly, in islam Jesus wasn't crucified, but a double was, and yet he was born from a virgin, and could talk at birth. Nutty.
There are 1000 of ancient Stone Age monuments across Europe which is much older than the New Pyramids. These Ice Age Stone Circles are Ancient Bio Clocks, the big hand is the Male Sun God and the little hand is the Moon Goddess which you are able to see before you die.
thumb down for just reciting the subtitles of zeitgeist (and of course video ripped). "I hope you can see that a bit of research and production went into this video, what do you think? " how pathetic are you
some of the allusions you make are not accurate representations of the myths you are using as examples...also..nowhere does it mention three kings in the jesus story..and definitely..the date 25th dec was appropriated much later ..the bible does not mention this...dionysius did not 'die' for 3 days..etc etc..."horus has risen"..when spoken in the coptic language are nothing like the word horizon..you need to do research rather than assemblage..start with a dictionary of mythology
People should check out the website ConspiracySciencedotcom, an irreligious website which debunks Zeitgeist. Also, Skepticdotcom, which is an anti-religious website, also debunks it.
He doesn't. You can draw parallels between any two things if you try hard enough, and those who draw parallels between Jesus and the sun are trying very hard, and fabricating a lot in the process.
In theory, I agree with this logic. But one question remains....how is it you look like a little kid with such a deep voice. How do you explain that, huh?
You should actually do your own research, instead of zeitgeist and utube. Ignorant and gullible.......Once you have done real research you can do a truthful video that is creditable and worthy of fact.
The author of this video tried to be intelligent by claiming ownership of material which is not theirs (this is called plagiarism). The author has FAILED in the aspect of intellectual property. Learn English, before you embarrass yourself further.
You need to calm down a bit. Insulting people personally doesn't make your point come across intelligently. You can't talk about intellectual property if yours yourself is questionable.
Where in my statement was there an insult? If I were to call you a "retarded bitch"-- then yes-- that would be an insult. Now do yourself a favor and look up "insult" in the dictionary. Obviously, you can't read my words clear enough. Wake up; Accept the fact that tossing your two cents around on youtube isn't making you a better person.
oh, and your two cents worth of insults is contributing a lot? At least I'm taking my bad day, coming on the internet and relieving myself by trying to ruin other people's days. Go yell at your dog or do some exercise instead. Angry SOB
WHAT? WTF are you talking about? It's you christards that sentence people to an eternity in fire. I just sit back and laugh at you and your ridiculous dogmatic nonsense.
Hey that's creative, you mixed christian and retard. Lets all pause for a moment and marvel at this person's gift in wordplay. First-rate insult sir. Oh and "dogmatic", gee, that's a big word, are you sure you didn't use a thesaurus before coming up with that? Haha, what am i saying, you are master of words. Go on, spread your wisdom to the outer reaches of the universe. Make those below you tremble with fear! Well spoken indeed.
The pagan cross is even armed because it represents balance in natural forces. This extends to the balance of male and female. The male portion of the cross was extended for Christianity to subjugate women.
This may be a bit of a bunny trail, but I would prefer to see the pagan cross even-armed thank you.
Other than that I thought this vid was incredible. I knew that Most Christian practices were adopted from paganism, and now I know why they existed in the first place. Awesomeness.
I'm just wondering why December 25th is used for your argument. Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25th and NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that He is. Celebrating on the 25th with Christmas trees is completely pagan, and I believe in Jesus!
I'm sorry. I honestly had no idea that you wouldn't understand what "fact of the matter" means. Your misconception is that I'm calling it fact, as in, scientific facts. Fact of the matter are the "facts" of the subject matter. So, yes. I have a very good grasp of the situation. :)
@420yeehaw You are correct. Dec 25th was adopted around 300AD by the early Church in order to establish itself as a dominant religion - earlier, older Egyptian mythology suggests that the birth of Horus was celebrated about the winter solstice - Plutarch, 1st century historian writes:"Harpocrates (Horus in Greek) was born about the winter solstice." (December 21st to 24th) Modern Christians associate Christmas with Christ's birth but it is purely an assimilation of older, "pagan" traditions.
Before there are any misconceptions, let me be clear. The fact of the matter is not whether Horus is real or not, but whether he was born on Dec. 25th or not. Their "facts" about Horus states he was born on Dec. 25th. Christian "facts" about Jesus are no where near stating that He was born on Dec. 25th. And the only reason that this date is attributed to Jesus' birth is because of the pagan infiltration of sun worship into the Christian faith. It's rather circular.
zionist terrorist own hollywod movie industry,media,evevn the american
goverment is owned by zionist .you wonder why is all this happening well ill try to explain some of it's a anti -christ sysytem t he anti christ started this system in the united kingdom 1000yrs when a day past like a year and when the pound was in power,his second base was united states america where a day past like a month and his last and final base is isreal where he is causing dis
horus is not a christ or a god they want you to think he is but he is nothing but a satanic devil worshiper th zionist want
christian's to believe that horus is the christ which of caurse his a deceiver they also use horus with the sun. example if u look at every picture of jesus it has a sun behind him the reason because horus worshiped the sun and the other fact is church service are on a sunday it sould been sonday which should represents son of mary, but it does not it repesents horu
First...Jesus never really come while Santa Claus is coming to town every December.
Second...God kills babies (Noah's Ark) and have rules for putting kids to death for cursing parents (OT), and death punishment for homosexuality and working on Sundays.
What do all of you say to the miracles. Eucharistic miracles such as when the host bleeds and scientists cannot explain it. How do you explain the clothing that Juan Diego was wearing? How do you explain Mary appearing to the many people she has appeared to?
Can you disprove that i didn't see a gaint spider running around saying it was the one true god and it wants flies?
No. Just because you cannot disprove it or explain it does not mean it came for a higher power. Much of everything in the world/universe is unknowable/unknown... that's why education and science are so highly thought of.
Not to say there isn't a higher power, but to say every unknown event is a miracle or came from god is foolish.
There's an old Italian proverb that sticks in my mind a lot: "When the chess game is over, the pawns, rooks, kings and queens all go back into the same box
AS far as evidence to Christianity, there is no proof, you must simply believe. Well, that is hard for me, this word is filled with pain and God is not "an awesome God, we pray from heaven above"- yes, I used to go to church, and yes, I know all the songs- and they are all the same. God is a vengeful God, he does things at his will, like letting babies die horrible deaths, and NO do NOT give me that "god's will" BULLSHIT. How many times I or you been told that someone is in a better place??
Religion just doesn't work. There is still wars, murders, little kids getting raped and murdered, people still hate each other, etc. Religion does nothing to help. What works for me is using The Power Of The Subconscious or Creative Visualization.
The funny part of this is that only traditional christianity believes Christ Jesus was born on December 25th. When it is more likely he was born sometime in September. If you actually read your bible christians, you'll know that Jesus could not have been born in December.
wow so smart to bad it wont stop you from dying and finding out to truth just think about it....if there is no God no truth to
christianity what am I here for whats my life purpose if I am just pond scum? what if God is real? I chose to not listen to his words because I thought I was so smart and knew it all now I have to suffer in hell for eternity that goes through your mind the first 2 seconds of your forever stay in hell just think about it smart guy question you ever been wrong in life??
Being unbiased...he never claims there is no God...just claims the Christian view of God may be based on earlier myths...
It is like someone debunking a so called "alien abduction" or "alien sighting"...that is not to say there is no such thing as alien life just a particular case of it...
Zeitgeist horus facts have been debunked but there is alot of similarities, this child only watched one movie (which is vary contraversial). Do more research my friend before you preach anything. You are not a genius. Sorry, please try again.
I've already explained to you where Anup is the baptiser to Horus and yet you throw it back at me with your mantra "where is the evidence?". If you keep saying this we must assume you are totally stupid and lazy for not checking it out. Either that or you are simply trolling. And I am more and more inclined to think that you are.
"I've already explained to you where Anup is the baptiser to Horus and yet you throw it back at me with your mantra "where is the evidence?"."
You've made claims, but if you refuse to provide evidence for them, then why should I believe those claims? Should I just be completely gullible and believe everything anyone ever tells me? Is that really what you expect?
And evidence has been provided. What's your problem? But if you cannot see the evidence, or you don't know what evidence is, then what's the point? Keep going to church worshipping a false god. It's up to you.
Surely if you had done your research you would have known that Anup is the embalmer to Horus. He is also the baptiser who anoints Horus with water in Amenta. He is the baptiser to Horus in the wilderness, as John the baptist is to Jesus...in the wilderness.
"Surely if you had done your research you would have known that Anup is the embalmer to Horus. He is also the baptiser who anoints Horus..."
I've done my research and seen many people present that claim, but they never give a lick of evidence in support of it. If you can find evidence, feel free to present it. Can you find me an actual version of the Horus story in which Anup baptizes Horus? Or in which Anup even appears?
Plus the overwhelming evidence that the "Jesus divinity" complete with life story was plagiarised from the Egyptians just says it all for me: Jesus is myth.
I've researched the claims of "plagiarism" and found that about 95% of the copycat claims are completely false, not part of pre-Christian mythology at all. The remaining 5% are the kinds of parallels you'd expect to find between any two stories, real or fictional, nothing which suggests copycatting. Besides, if that 5% was significant, then why did CM'ers bother to fabricate the other 95%?
"What copycat claims do you mean? Point them out... "
Too many to list here, but among them:
HORUS
born of a virgin, being a teacher at age 12, being baptized, having 12 disciples, raising the dead, walking on water, being crucified, being buried 3 days in a tomb, being resurrected
MITHRA
born of a virgin, having 12 disciples, buried in a tomb, being resurrected
KRISHNA
born of a virgin. human father was a carpenter, raised the dead, crucified, died at age 30, resurrected
He was born from the virgin Isis. He received the law from his father when he came of age, thus being the child teacher same as Jesus. He was baptised by Anup. He had followers called the Shemsu Hor. He raised his father. This is basic Egyptology!!! He was burried in the tomb. Her was resurrected with his ftaher as a Sa Re. Is there any point in responding to you anymore? Too lazy to do the research? Or just a troll?
"He was born from the virgin Isis. He received the law from his father when he came of age, thus being the child teacher same as Jesus. He was baptised by Anup...."
I'm not looking for claims. I'm looking for evidence to support them, like versions of the story where those things happen, or anything. Got any?
"Too lazy to do the research?"
I've done the research, and found nothing to support those claims. If you have found evidence, feel free to present it.
Evidence? Get a book from the library on Egyptology and get reading. lol. Seriously, if you don't do that how will you know; how will you learn? The virgin mother goddess and her divine son is as old as Judaism itself. Please do some research. How could you have done any research!!! lol. You come right out of a comic book!!
"Get a book from the library on Egyptology and get reading."
Yeah, and if I don't, then you'll accuse me of being too lazy to do any research. And if I do and don't find any (which you know I won't), then you'll say I just didn't look hard enough.
Sorry, but I expect those making a claim to provide evidence for it, not to send others on wild-goose chases looking for evidence they know doesn't exist.
If it exists, present it. If it doesn't, stop saying it does.
It's up to you to look in the right places. You're going to have to go through many books to get these parallels. There isn't just one book that details them. Many authors have only hinted at them but those parallels are there; they do exist. Why did you not know that Anup was the baptiser to Horus? Did you do any research on this at all? Obviously not.
Well it does depend on which book it is. Lol. You don't think every writer on Egypt writes about the same thing, do you? lol.
No!!! You're confused. No wild goose chase. And no it is not a "Christ-myther tactic" whetever that is. The evidence is there!! You just have to do some research. It is that simple!! lol.
Have you done the research? If you have, have you found the evidence? If you have, then why not present it? Is there something wrong with the evidence that you don't want me to see it? Did you find it, then lose it?
The kind of evidence that you want goes something like this in ancient text: "Horus was baptised by...". It doesn't work that way!!. We know Horus was baptised at the river of purification by Anup because Anup was the embalmer of the Horus King, and there is a temple wall relief which shows Anubis puring the waters over the king..anointing the king as part of his baptism. Anubis was the jackal of the wilderness, and it is he that provides Horus with the life giving waters in Amenta.
"You can mealy-mouth and try to make adjustments all you want, but the plain fact is your so-called evidence doesn't prove Christ existed."
Three references by historians is very good evidenced that someone existed. I can't think of a time that even one historian wrote about a fictional character as if he believed that character really existed, but you'd have us believe that three of them did?
Wrong! Just because three people believe it, does not make it true. The historians today are mainly writing as if Jesus existed because they dare not question the authority of their peers. It is the same in most academic circles. The first gospel Mark was written some 40 years too late. The earliest Christian documents are the Pauline epistles. And Paul never met Jesus except in a vision.
And as I was saying, Josephus mentioned Jesus twice, in books 18 and 20 of "Antiquities". The reference in book 18 was interpolated, but the reference in book 20 is genuine, which says: "Calling forth the members of the Sanhedrin, he (Annas) brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, and others with him."
So that's three historians who mentioned Jesus, with no evidence of any of these being fraudulent.
"Josephus has been considered fradulent for over 400 years. Let it go."
The reference in book 20 is not considered fraudulent, only the reference in book 18 is.
"Find historical reference to Christ written by those who were alive at the time he was supposed to have lived. "
There aren't any, which is true of almost everyone who lived at the time. Practically all history is written after the fact by people who didn't personally witness the events.
Of course history is written after the fact, but any history written many years after the fact has to be suspect. There is a huge difference between writing something immediately after the event and years later.
However, you JUST admitted that there is no historical evidence written by those who are the contemporaries of Christ. They don't have to be eye witnesses, merely alive when Christ was.
"Of course history is written after the fact, but any history written many years after the fact has to be suspect. There is a huge difference between writing something immediately after the event and years later."
Not really. Most of what we know about Alexander the Great comes from historians who lived *centuries* after Alexander, but is considered reliable.
"However, you JUST admitted that there is no historical evidence written by those who are the contemporaries of Christ. They don't have to be eye witnesses, merely alive when Christ was."
Actually, the entire New Testament was written by contemporaries of Christ, and that's around 1000 pages and mentions Him frequently. But since you probably reject that evidence, I'll just say that practically everyone who lived in Jesus' time and place wasn't mentioned by historians who lived when they did.
You know, if there was some dude traveling the area performing amazing miracles and doing spectacular things, you would think that those who were around when it happened might mention it. NO ONE DID. Which leads us right back to where we started.
"You know, if there was some dude traveling the area performing amazing miracles and doing spectacular things, you would think that those who were around when it happened might mention it. NO ONE DID."
Most of the New Testament authors were around when it happened, and they mentioned it. We don't know who else may or may not have mentioned it, since most of what was written around that time wasn't passed down 2000 years to this day.
(Pliny, continued) "Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshiped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ"
Pliny wrote, "Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ — none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do — these I thought should be discharged..." (continued, it's long)
and what if just what if God does exist just what if what will you do then ?. . .there just has to be something prior to all of this its such a mind-twisting subject no one knows and probably no one will ever truly know for a long time. . . my friend suggested we could be living in a blood cell of a being from another dimension haha i laugh but it could be possible
Steven King once said in a book of his that what defeats us in our knowledge is not time but size. If you continue to look at smaller and smaller things you go from cells to molecules then atoms then electrons, protons and neutrons which are basically just energy, then what... quarks? then what ....nothing?its hard to say that it comes down to nothing, but with our limited technology we cant see any smaller, or bigger then our own universe. for all we know we are in that blood cell.
If we are just part of that cell and theists have deemed that cell to be a part of god, how could the being consciously intervene in our lives? How can we not come to the conclusion that our cells could be harbouring an almost infinite number of universes and we are being called god by the inhabitants of those universes. If it is size that rules all things then we are unknowing and,for most, unwilling gods. Just like the being whose cell we occupy. But, it could also be bullshit.
so what does this mean ? ? religion is a made up story reproduced again and again only to accomodate time and culture or what ? ?there has to be something man there just has to the might not be a man with a beard or an elephant with 8 arms but there has to be SOMETHING. .
All it means is that some people are so desperate to disprove Christianity that they'll make stuff up about pre-Christian gods, hoping their audience is unfamiliar with the actual stories and gullible enough to believe them. About 95% of the claims Christ-mythers make about pre-Christian deities is completely false, including all of the Horus claims in this video. Do some fact-checking, people! Don't be gullible!
The facts in this video are completely verifiable. It was commonly known to early Christian leaders that Jesus was a recycled telling of an old tale they were already familiar with.
However, if you're able to give me non-Christian references.....scholarly references.....that refute the facts of this video, I'd love to see them. I'd also like to see historical (non-Biblical) proof of the existence of Christ, if you can manage that as well. He's not mentioned by any historian of the time.
Yes, you can find versions of the Horus story where these things happened. Read the about the life of Krishna. Readily and easily available. Modern Hindu scholars consider Krishna and Jesus to be different incarnations of the same person.
"Skeptic Magazine" isn't a scholarly reference. It's a magazine.
Egyptian mythology. Give it a read. There are many versions and retellings.
If you'd actually read the life of Krishna, you would see the startling parallels. Finding the material on the life of Krishna IS easily and readily available.
However, even if there are variations of the Sun God story, it doesn't mean the Christ story isn't a retelling of an older myth. The existence of Christ is only a fact in the Bible.......a VERY unreliable source of historical facts.
"Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree......
You have your side, which you believe, and I have mine, which I also believe. "
You're certainly free to believe what you want. But when all evidence points to Jesus having existed and none points to Jesus being a fictional character based on pre-Christian mythology, then I think it would be smart to reconsider what you believe.
No, all evidence does NOT point to the existence of an historical Jesus. The only "evidence" is scriptural. You can continue to believe that claptrap if you choose, but choosing to be blind doesn't mean you need a dog.
And I think you'd be smart to consider other spiritual paths and possibilities aside from the limited, xenophobic, misogynistic ideology that Christianity is.
Aardvarks and antelopes......there is more than one path to the water hole.
No. As I already said, we also have several non-Christian historians who confirm Jesus' existence.
But of course, the best evidence for Jesus' existence is that those arguing against it have been fabricating evidence (this Horus, Mithra, etc. garbage) to make their point. Why would they be fabricating evidence unless they knew the valid evidence favored Jesus' existence?
Feel free to believe what you want, but I'll go where the evidence points.
No, those supposed you mentioned don't mention Jesus, except for Josephus who was found to be a fraud and forgery over 400 years ago.
And it's not "fabricating evidence" to show there is no historical evidence of Jesus or to point out the similarities between the Christ figure and previous gods.
Admit it, you're a Christian because you're afraid of hell, aren't you?
"No, those supposed you mentioned don't mention Jesus, except for Josephus who was found to be a fraud and forgery over 400 years ago."
Only one of Josephus' two references was a forgery. The other is genuine. And, yes, Pliny the Younger and Tacitus did mention Jesus, and Suetonius probably did as well.
"And it's not "fabricating evidence" to show there is no historical evidence of Jesus or to point out the similarities between the Christ figure and previous gods."
It is when there *is* historical evidence of Jesus and *no* versions of the Horus, Mithra, etc. stories where those things happen.
"Admit it, you're a Christian because you're afraid of hell, aren't you? "
If I was a non-believer, I wouldn't believe in hell, so why would I be afraid of something I don't believe in?
What evidence? I've been asking Christ-mythers for evidence for years, and none have provided me with any. If you have any, I'd love to see it. In fact, I have a website where I'm offering up to $1000 to anyone who can provide evidence, such as a version of the story, backing up the common Christ-myther claims for any one deity, such as Horus, Mithra, Krishna, etc. If you google "KingDavid8 challenge", it should be the first link you get.
"You're one of those people who wouldn't believe ANY evidence that goes against your personal beliefs. It matters not what ANYONE says."
It's not a case of me not believing the evidence. It's a case of there not being any evidence in the first place. Christ-mythers claim that these stories exist, but they don't.
"As far as I'm concerned, there's no evidence for the existence of Christ."
To rational people, references to Jesus by mutiple historians would be evidence that someone existed. I can't think of a single time that a historian wrote about a fictional character as if that character existed, but Christ-mythers would have us believe that at least three historians did so.
If you believe that there are pre-Christian stories of Horus, Krishna, etc. which have the parallels that Christ-mythers claim, then, yes, you're irrational. The stories don't exist. If they did, Christ-mythers would be parading them for the world to see. Instead, they can't find them.
YOU believe in virgin birth and a zombie with a heavenly agenda. There are so many Bible stories that are outright bullshit that is staggers the imagination how you can call someone else irrational with a straight face.
You have NO ROOM to call anyone irrational.
You're living in a glass house and trying to throw rocks.
Oh, it is so true.....the religious are stupid and blind ON PURPOSE.
The difference is that when I say that there are texts which say these things, there are. Feel free to call me irrational for believing in them, but at least I believe in texts which do exist. As for you, the texts you claim exist don't even exist. I believe in something for which some could call the evidence questionable. You believe in something for which there is zero evidence to begin with.
Josephus was uncovered as a fraud over 400 years ago and NO OTHER Roman historian mentioned Christ.
I know you mentioned two who supposedly did, so here's a challenge for YOU. Find those specific references to your supposed historical Christ and give references. Find me the English translation(scholarly, not theological--can't trust the theologians) of these supposed texts.
Tacitus wrote "Christus, from whom the name (Christians) had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus"
Josephus works were doctored by Eusibius. Tacitus and Pliny the Younger both were born AFTER Christ supposedly lived. Yes, they both mention Christ, but it merely indicates the prescence of Christians in the 1st century, a fact no one denies.
DO NOT REFERENCE JOSEPHUS AS HE IS A FRAUD AND HAS BEEN CONSIDER SUCH FOR OVER 400 YEARS.
I don't know how many times I need to say it, but the reference in book 18 was the only one interpolated. The reference in book 20 is genuine, and we know it was part of the text prior to Eusebius' time, since it was referenced by Origen, who lived a century before Eusebius.
"Yes, they both mention Christ"
Good, so I gave you what you asked for. And now you're moving the goalposts.
"Tacitus and Pliny merely prove that Christians existed in the first century. Nothing more."
No, since Tacitus also told us about Jesus' execution by Pontius Pilate.
"I'm not "moving goalposts"."
Yes, you are. You told me to name some historians who mentioned Him, and I did. Then you wanted to limit it to contemporary historians so that you could reject the evidence I presented. How is that not moving goalposts?
"Tacitus derived his sources from the Christians."
Unlikely, considering how much Tacitus hated Christians.
"How about the historians who never mentioned him? Philo never mentions him. "
I'm sure there were many people who existed in Jesus' day that Philo didn't mention. Besides, if Philo had mentioned Jesus, I'm sure Christ-mythers would find a way to dismiss the references the same way they dismiss Tacitus, Pliny the Younger and the Josephus reference in book 20.
Tacitus never "hated" the Christians. We dismis Tacitus because we cannot cite him as proof that the Jewish godman existed. The same would apply to Josephus and all the others.
You can't be serious. He called them "evil", "hated for their abominations", "a mischievous superstition", and "hideous and shameful". That doesn't sound like hatred to you?
Tacitus is recording an account; he does not reveal any emotion such as hatred. He quotes that they were "were hated for their enormities." But all this is mere tick-for-tat, as Tacitus was born in 56AD, and started to write in 115AD so you're argument that Tacitus is proof would never stand up in a court of law.
"Tacitus is recording an account; he does not reveal any emotion such as hatred"
He sure does. Read it.
"you're argument that Tacitus is proof would never stand up in a court of law."
I never said it was "proof". I said it was "evidence". And if all evidence says that an individual existed, and there is none to the contrary, the most reasonable conclusion is that the person existed. Three historians talking about him as if he existed is very good evidence.
Yep, and he wrote about many people who lived before he was born, including Julius Caesar. Should we reject everything he, and other historians, wrote about people who died prior to the time he was born?
"I'd also like to see historical (non-Biblical) proof of the existence of Christ, if you can manage that as well."
No problem. At least three non-Christian historians mentioned Jesus within 100 years of His time. Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, and Josephus. Yes, one of Josephus' references was at least partially interpolated, but the latter reference to Jesus, in book 20 of "Antiquities" is undoubtedly genuine.
Josephus was found to be a fraud over 400 years ago.
Tacitus and Pliny the Younger just do not mention him. If you happen to have a reference.....please share, but I've not found these so-called references.
WHY does there HAVE to be something, or someone for that matter, what if it realy was nothing that caused everything, what if the scientific hypothesis of vacuum fluctuations being the first cause is true. There is evidence that the absence of everything ie. a perfect vacuum spontaneously produces energy which then spontaneously produces matter. But no evidence whatsoever to support a belief in God.
well man i dnt really know but i read the other day that god makes himself known through art because he himself is an artist, like for example why do certain creatures look the way they do why are there these fish with bright patterns on them and why does the zebra have stripes and the leopard spots and then they say they evolved them for some reason what is the damn reason ?camouflage ?why are they so appealing to the human eye ? i dont think this is a good justification but ehh . . .
there has to be something because i dont know man i use think about this on a regular basis, but since my sleeping disorder developed ive forgotten so much my memory has gone down the tube. . but dont think in this literal world think about love. i believe this is the most difficult subject on this whole planet and i believe no one will ever know till the creator himself,itself appears, if there is 1. . .till then live in complete love and peace for there is no need for anything else, NO NEED.
you don't understand the Bible. It was not written to be taken literally, only Protestants believe this and the are idiots. To understand the Bible you must read it figuratively or even metaphorically.
The reason for Catholic anger(the inquisition ect) about the Protestant reading of the Bible is because of this reading of the Bible which completely distorts the spirit and meaning of the Bible and places it in an ideological straight-jacket.
im pretty sure the bible was intented to be intepreted literally. if youre a believer, and you say its metaphor, then your questioning the whole foundations of your faith. Catholics distorted the bible. nowhere does the bible mention popes.
The whole pope thing came in when the Romans adopted christianity, the pope is essentially the emperor of christianity (the first pope being Emperor Constanine I).
Christianity wasn't one consistent religion until then anyway, when the Romans took it they collected all the stories together and kept the ones they liked.
Ever read the gospels of Judas, Andrew or Thaddeus? The Romans didn't like them so they were dropped. All of christianity stems from catholicism these days.
first off that's paganism.You should do your own research instead of stealing clams off the zeitgeist film its sad that people can't even think for them self's with out using someones Else's sited clams To help refute or debunk a certain clam. Be original think on your fucking own.
I'm not going to take issue with your use of "history" and mythology. I just wish that you owned a dictionary and knew how to use it. Hour and horizon are Greek and have nothing to do with an Egyptian god. Sunset is an entirely Germanic word and has nothing to do with an Egyptian god. There are other etymological mistakes. What can I say? Sometimes words have fairly "boring" etymologies, so I understand why people read a bunch of nonsense into them, but seriously... buy a dictionary!
come down of your throne, because here are wars, hunger, injustices. It is not necessary that you are one and quaver, With one alone that wants to help, we would have enough it. Which your Kingdom is? The Vatican one? The banking? The political discharge? Our Kingdom is Nigeria, Ethiopia, Colombia, Hiroshima. Our bread of every day is the violations, The violence of the gender, the pederasty, The dictatorships, the climatic change.
In the temptation I fall everyday, There is not tomorrow in which i'm not tempted of creating a God Humble, fair. A god that is in the Earth, In the valleys, the rivers, A God that lives in the rain, That it travels through the wind and it caresses our soul. A God of the sad ones, of the homosexuals. A more human God.... A God that doesn't punish, That teaches.
Do Thy Will. Very well done. But mohamad should be removed as he isn't believed to be divine, a savior, or miraculous, including no healings, resurections or other fables. (Except one where he split the Moon in half (?!). Also he actually existed as a very evil mass-murderer, rapist, terrorist war-lord. So he doesn't fit. Oddly, in islam Jesus wasn't crucified, but a double was, and yet he was born from a virgin, and could talk at birth. Nutty.
The Sun, in Man, is God. WILL/Love 93
666jeffrey93 2 weeks ago
There are 1000 of ancient Stone Age monuments across Europe which is much older than the New Pyramids. These Ice Age Stone Circles are Ancient Bio Clocks, the big hand is the Male Sun God and the little hand is the Moon Goddess which you are able to see before you die.
MagicTellaVision 1 year ago
Wow there are alot of lies on the internet.
Atheism is trendy right now.
brandisify 1 year ago
thumb down for just reciting the subtitles of zeitgeist (and of course video ripped). "I hope you can see that a bit of research and production went into this video, what do you think? " how pathetic are you
Samura1gamer 1 year ago
leave this to peter joseph, plagurizor
pistolpete667 1 year ago
some of the allusions you make are not accurate representations of the myths you are using as examples...also..nowhere does it mention three kings in the jesus story..and definitely..the date 25th dec was appropriated much later ..the bible does not mention this...dionysius did not 'die' for 3 days..etc etc..."horus has risen"..when spoken in the coptic language are nothing like the word horizon..you need to do research rather than assemblage..start with a dictionary of mythology
MATTDUNCAN1 1 year ago
People should check out the website ConspiracySciencedotcom, an irreligious website which debunks Zeitgeist. Also, Skepticdotcom, which is an anti-religious website, also debunks it.
kingdavid246 1 year ago
@kingdavid246 How can you debunk the truth that Jesus is the SUN of God?
MichaelFromTheUK 1 year ago
@MichaelFromTheUK
"Sun" and "Son" are only homonyms in the English language, which wasn't around in Jesus' day.
kingdavid246 1 year ago
@kingdavid246 How does that take away from the fact that Jesus is still the character that represents the Sun of our Solar System?
MichaelFromTheUK 1 year ago
@MichaelFromTheUK
He doesn't. You can draw parallels between any two things if you try hard enough, and those who draw parallels between Jesus and the sun are trying very hard, and fabricating a lot in the process.
kingdavid246 1 year ago
In theory, I agree with this logic. But one question remains....how is it you look like a little kid with such a deep voice. How do you explain that, huh?
KASABERHAGEN 1 year ago
You should actually do your own research, instead of zeitgeist and utube. Ignorant and gullible.......Once you have done real research you can do a truthful video that is creditable and worthy of fact.
h2omanz 1 year ago
hmmm plagerism..nice. Not just them you too. You could've of atleast gotten your own pics or atleast script!
alteregosunshine8301 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
My video "Pure Light Walks" is a meditation on the mythic soil of Christmas, and the metaphor of the Scapegoat.
EdificationNetwork 2 years ago
Nice use of Mr. Crowley at the end. lol
edster612 2 years ago
loved that movie. love this video.
we can all share and just be happy our minds are being filled with a wealth of knowledge.
blueberrycupcakes 2 years ago
failure is not trying. have you tried vo7tage?
blueberrycupcakes 2 years ago
The author of this video tried to be intelligent by claiming ownership of material which is not theirs (this is called plagiarism). The author has FAILED in the aspect of intellectual property. Learn English, before you embarrass yourself further.
vo7tage 2 years ago
You need to calm down a bit. Insulting people personally doesn't make your point come across intelligently. You can't talk about intellectual property if yours yourself is questionable.
blueberrycupcakes 2 years ago
Where in my statement was there an insult? If I were to call you a "retarded bitch"-- then yes-- that would be an insult. Now do yourself a favor and look up "insult" in the dictionary. Obviously, you can't read my words clear enough. Wake up; Accept the fact that tossing your two cents around on youtube isn't making you a better person.
vo7tage 2 years ago
oh, and your two cents worth of insults is contributing a lot? At least I'm taking my bad day, coming on the internet and relieving myself by trying to ruin other people's days. Go yell at your dog or do some exercise instead. Angry SOB
blueberrycupcakes 2 years ago
That's your problem. Have a nice day.
vo7tage 2 years ago
all you've done is throw around insults.
jtrubilla 2 years ago
eat me.
vo7tage 2 years ago
Not thanks
I thought christians hated gays...
jtrubilla 2 years ago
chill out, faggot.
vo7tage 2 years ago
okay...I'm not the one asking another man for oral sex.
Is someone a closet case?
jtrubilla 2 years ago
That fact that you would take that as a sexual remark, just shows how big of a closet homosexual pervert you really are. Oh, the irony.
vo7tage 2 years ago
Don't you have an imaginary friend to talk to?
jtrubilla 2 years ago
Don't you have church you need to burn down?
vo7tage 2 years ago
WHAT? WTF are you talking about? It's you christards that sentence people to an eternity in fire. I just sit back and laugh at you and your ridiculous dogmatic nonsense.
jtrubilla 2 years ago
Hey that's creative, you mixed christian and retard. Lets all pause for a moment and marvel at this person's gift in wordplay. First-rate insult sir. Oh and "dogmatic", gee, that's a big word, are you sure you didn't use a thesaurus before coming up with that? Haha, what am i saying, you are master of words. Go on, spread your wisdom to the outer reaches of the universe. Make those below you tremble with fear! Well spoken indeed.
vo7tage 2 years ago
dogmatic may be a "big word" for you, but I wouldn't go around announcing it.
jtrubilla 2 years ago
you sound like caveman..clean up your language and articulate you baboon
blueberrycupcakes 2 years ago
The pagan cross is even armed because it represents balance in natural forces. This extends to the balance of male and female. The male portion of the cross was extended for Christianity to subjugate women.
This may be a bit of a bunny trail, but I would prefer to see the pagan cross even-armed thank you.
Other than that I thought this vid was incredible. I knew that Most Christian practices were adopted from paganism, and now I know why they existed in the first place. Awesomeness.
Echowraith 2 years ago
I'm just wondering why December 25th is used for your argument. Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25th and NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that He is. Celebrating on the 25th with Christmas trees is completely pagan, and I believe in Jesus!
420yeehaw 2 years ago
Try asking 1000 Christians why we celebrate Christmas. I promise the majority will refer to the birth of Jesus Christ.
If not, I'll send you a present! =]
thecaster 2 years ago
But that's only because they're ignorant. Your comparisons of Dec 25th are attributed to a conditioned belief, not an actual fact of the matter.
420yeehaw 2 years ago
>conditioned belief, not an actual fact of the matter.
You sound like you've got a good grasp of the situation. :)
thecaster 2 years ago 2
There's that misconception I was talking about.
420yeehaw 2 years ago
I'm sorry. I honestly had no idea that you wouldn't understand what "fact of the matter" means. Your misconception is that I'm calling it fact, as in, scientific facts. Fact of the matter are the "facts" of the subject matter. So, yes. I have a very good grasp of the situation. :)
420yeehaw 2 years ago
sorry buddy. Nice wordplay, but doesn't hold much water. :(
420yeehaw delivers a sound statement of fact.
Also, why does the info in your presentation look so... familiar... could it be because it's not yours?
jackel83 2 years ago
@420yeehaw You are correct. Dec 25th was adopted around 300AD by the early Church in order to establish itself as a dominant religion - earlier, older Egyptian mythology suggests that the birth of Horus was celebrated about the winter solstice - Plutarch, 1st century historian writes:"Harpocrates (Horus in Greek) was born about the winter solstice." (December 21st to 24th) Modern Christians associate Christmas with Christ's birth but it is purely an assimilation of older, "pagan" traditions.
EyeofHorus33 7 months ago
Before there are any misconceptions, let me be clear. The fact of the matter is not whether Horus is real or not, but whether he was born on Dec. 25th or not. Their "facts" about Horus states he was born on Dec. 25th. Christian "facts" about Jesus are no where near stating that He was born on Dec. 25th. And the only reason that this date is attributed to Jesus' birth is because of the pagan infiltration of sun worship into the Christian faith. It's rather circular.
420yeehaw 2 years ago
Send me a present anyways! ;)
420yeehaw 2 years ago
zionist terrorist own hollywod movie industry,media,evevn the american
goverment is owned by zionist .you wonder why is all this happening well ill try to explain some of it's a anti -christ sysytem t he anti christ started this system in the united kingdom 1000yrs when a day past like a year and when the pound was in power,his second base was united states america where a day past like a month and his last and final base is isreal where he is causing dis
ify1979 2 years ago
horus is not a christ or a god they want you to think he is but he is nothing but a satanic devil worshiper th zionist want
christian's to believe that horus is the christ which of caurse his a deceiver they also use horus with the sun. example if u look at every picture of jesus it has a sun behind him the reason because horus worshiped the sun and the other fact is church service are on a sunday it sould been sonday which should represents son of mary, but it does not it repesents horu
ify1979 2 years ago
The answer is simple.
God is Santa Claus for adults.
But there are some differences.
First...Jesus never really come while Santa Claus is coming to town every December.
Second...God kills babies (Noah's Ark) and have rules for putting kids to death for cursing parents (OT), and death punishment for homosexuality and working on Sundays.
But...God loves us :-)
Gosh...religion is soooooo idiotic.
ThinkingBetter 2 years ago
christians worship the sun... they dont know it but they worship the sun god, or the god of sun...
RizeOrDie 2 years ago
krishna was born long before Horus, Hindusium still worship sun.
jyoluch 2 years ago
WHY ARE YOU QUOTING ZEITGEIST?
uptown132 2 years ago
What do all of you say to the miracles. Eucharistic miracles such as when the host bleeds and scientists cannot explain it. How do you explain the clothing that Juan Diego was wearing? How do you explain Mary appearing to the many people she has appeared to?
vruwcrew 2 years ago
Can you disprove that i didn't see a gaint spider running around saying it was the one true god and it wants flies?
No. Just because you cannot disprove it or explain it does not mean it came for a higher power. Much of everything in the world/universe is unknowable/unknown... that's why education and science are so highly thought of.
Not to say there isn't a higher power, but to say every unknown event is a miracle or came from god is foolish.
LoganSmith14 2 years ago
There's an old Italian proverb that sticks in my mind a lot: "When the chess game is over, the pawns, rooks, kings and queens all go back into the same box
krazyken822 2 years ago
AS far as evidence to Christianity, there is no proof, you must simply believe. Well, that is hard for me, this word is filled with pain and God is not "an awesome God, we pray from heaven above"- yes, I used to go to church, and yes, I know all the songs- and they are all the same. God is a vengeful God, he does things at his will, like letting babies die horrible deaths, and NO do NOT give me that "god's will" BULLSHIT. How many times I or you been told that someone is in a better place??
BellaBaron 2 years ago
Religion just doesn't work. There is still wars, murders, little kids getting raped and murdered, people still hate each other, etc. Religion does nothing to help. What works for me is using The Power Of The Subconscious or Creative Visualization.
mrpower328 2 years ago
The funny part of this is that only traditional christianity believes Christ Jesus was born on December 25th. When it is more likely he was born sometime in September. If you actually read your bible christians, you'll know that Jesus could not have been born in December.
Hoiliho 2 years ago
wow so smart to bad it wont stop you from dying and finding out to truth just think about it....if there is no God no truth to
christianity what am I here for whats my life purpose if I am just pond scum? what if God is real? I chose to not listen to his words because I thought I was so smart and knew it all now I have to suffer in hell for eternity that goes through your mind the first 2 seconds of your forever stay in hell just think about it smart guy question you ever been wrong in life??
armoral 2 years ago
Being unbiased...he never claims there is no God...just claims the Christian view of God may be based on earlier myths...
It is like someone debunking a so called "alien abduction" or "alien sighting"...that is not to say there is no such thing as alien life just a particular case of it...
vunak2000 2 years ago
No Just Jesus - Hamlet was also a rip-off of Horus.
sahure300 2 years ago
Zeitgeist horus facts have been debunked but there is alot of similarities, this child only watched one movie (which is vary contraversial). Do more research my friend before you preach anything. You are not a genius. Sorry, please try again.
evanevan98762 2 years ago
I've already explained to you where Anup is the baptiser to Horus and yet you throw it back at me with your mantra "where is the evidence?". If you keep saying this we must assume you are totally stupid and lazy for not checking it out. Either that or you are simply trolling. And I am more and more inclined to think that you are.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"I've already explained to you where Anup is the baptiser to Horus and yet you throw it back at me with your mantra "where is the evidence?"."
You've made claims, but if you refuse to provide evidence for them, then why should I believe those claims? Should I just be completely gullible and believe everything anyone ever tells me? Is that really what you expect?
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
It's up to you whether to believe it.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
martyn,
Actually, it's up to you. If you provide a photo of the image, I'll believe it. If you don't provide a photo, there's no way I'll believe it.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Why should I provide for you?
Troll.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"Why should I provide for you?"
Because those who are making a claim should be the ones providing evidence for it, of course.
But if you don't have any evidence, or are truly uninterested in convincing anyone of your claims, then feel free to refuse to provide any evidence.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
And evidence has been provided. What's your problem? But if you cannot see the evidence, or you don't know what evidence is, then what's the point? Keep going to church worshipping a false god. It's up to you.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"And evidence has been provided."
When? Saying over and over again that it exists doesn't make it exist.
"What's your problem? But if you cannot see the evidence, or you don't know what evidence is, then what's the point?"
How can I see the evidence or know what it is if the people who claim it exists refuse to ever provide it?
For now, I'll continue to go where the evidence points, until someone provides some evidence to the contrary.
Not claims. Evidence.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Surely if you had done your research you would have known that Anup is the embalmer to Horus. He is also the baptiser who anoints Horus with water in Amenta. He is the baptiser to Horus in the wilderness, as John the baptist is to Jesus...in the wilderness.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"Surely if you had done your research you would have known that Anup is the embalmer to Horus. He is also the baptiser who anoints Horus..."
I've done my research and seen many people present that claim, but they never give a lick of evidence in support of it. If you can find evidence, feel free to present it. Can you find me an actual version of the Horus story in which Anup baptizes Horus? Or in which Anup even appears?
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Plus the overwhelming evidence that the "Jesus divinity" complete with life story was plagiarised from the Egyptians just says it all for me: Jesus is myth.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
martyn,
I've researched the claims of "plagiarism" and found that about 95% of the copycat claims are completely false, not part of pre-Christian mythology at all. The remaining 5% are the kinds of parallels you'd expect to find between any two stories, real or fictional, nothing which suggests copycatting. Besides, if that 5% was significant, then why did CM'ers bother to fabricate the other 95%?
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
David,
What copycat claims do you mean? Point them out...
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"What copycat claims do you mean? Point them out... "
Too many to list here, but among them:
HORUS
born of a virgin, being a teacher at age 12, being baptized, having 12 disciples, raising the dead, walking on water, being crucified, being buried 3 days in a tomb, being resurrected
MITHRA
born of a virgin, having 12 disciples, buried in a tomb, being resurrected
KRISHNA
born of a virgin. human father was a carpenter, raised the dead, crucified, died at age 30, resurrected
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
He was born from the virgin Isis. He received the law from his father when he came of age, thus being the child teacher same as Jesus. He was baptised by Anup. He had followers called the Shemsu Hor. He raised his father. This is basic Egyptology!!! He was burried in the tomb. Her was resurrected with his ftaher as a Sa Re. Is there any point in responding to you anymore? Too lazy to do the research? Or just a troll?
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"He was born from the virgin Isis. He received the law from his father when he came of age, thus being the child teacher same as Jesus. He was baptised by Anup...."
I'm not looking for claims. I'm looking for evidence to support them, like versions of the story where those things happen, or anything. Got any?
"Too lazy to do the research?"
I've done the research, and found nothing to support those claims. If you have found evidence, feel free to present it.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Evidence? Get a book from the library on Egyptology and get reading. lol. Seriously, if you don't do that how will you know; how will you learn? The virgin mother goddess and her divine son is as old as Judaism itself. Please do some research. How could you have done any research!!! lol. You come right out of a comic book!!
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"Get a book from the library on Egyptology and get reading."
Yeah, and if I don't, then you'll accuse me of being too lazy to do any research. And if I do and don't find any (which you know I won't), then you'll say I just didn't look hard enough.
Sorry, but I expect those making a claim to provide evidence for it, not to send others on wild-goose chases looking for evidence they know doesn't exist.
If it exists, present it. If it doesn't, stop saying it does.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
It's up to you to look in the right places. You're going to have to go through many books to get these parallels. There isn't just one book that details them. Many authors have only hinted at them but those parallels are there; they do exist. Why did you not know that Anup was the baptiser to Horus? Did you do any research on this at all? Obviously not.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
martyn,
First you said that if I got "a book from the library on Egyptology", I'd find these parallels. Now I have to go through "many books". Which is it?
We both know that you're just trying to send me on a wild goose chase going after evidence that doesn't exist, which is a common Christ-myther tactic.
Again, I expect those making a claim to provide evidence for it. If you can't provide evidence, then stop saying there's evidence.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Well it does depend on which book it is. Lol. You don't think every writer on Egypt writes about the same thing, do you? lol.
No!!! You're confused. No wild goose chase. And no it is not a "Christ-myther tactic" whetever that is. The evidence is there!! You just have to do some research. It is that simple!! lol.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
Have you done the research? If you have, have you found the evidence? If you have, then why not present it? Is there something wrong with the evidence that you don't want me to see it? Did you find it, then lose it?
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
The kind of evidence that you want goes something like this in ancient text: "Horus was baptised by...". It doesn't work that way!!. We know Horus was baptised at the river of purification by Anup because Anup was the embalmer of the Horus King, and there is a temple wall relief which shows Anubis puring the waters over the king..anointing the king as part of his baptism. Anubis was the jackal of the wilderness, and it is he that provides Horus with the life giving waters in Amenta.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"there is a temple wall relief which shows Anubis puring the waters over the king..anointing the king as part of his baptism."
Do you have a photo of this image?
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
I think there is one at the temple of Seti. I do not know if you will be able to find any photos on the internet.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
Comment removed
kingdavid246 2 years ago
You can mealy-mouth and try to make adjustments all you want, but the plain fact is your so-called evidence doesn't prove Christ existed.
The gospels were also written too late.
Your arguments fail miserably.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"You can mealy-mouth and try to make adjustments all you want, but the plain fact is your so-called evidence doesn't prove Christ existed."
Three references by historians is very good evidenced that someone existed. I can't think of a time that even one historian wrote about a fictional character as if he believed that character really existed, but you'd have us believe that three of them did?
"The gospels were also written too late."
How do you figure that?
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Wrong! Just because three people believe it, does not make it true. The historians today are mainly writing as if Jesus existed because they dare not question the authority of their peers. It is the same in most academic circles. The first gospel Mark was written some 40 years too late. The earliest Christian documents are the Pauline epistles. And Paul never met Jesus except in a vision.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"Wrong! Just because three people believe it, does not make it true."
When they're non-Christian historians, it's very strong evidence.
"The historians today are mainly writing as if Jesus existed because they dare not question the authority of their peers. "
Or because all evidence says He did, and no evidence says He was fictional.
"The first gospel Mark was written some 40 years too late."
Actually, the evidence suggests it was written within 30 of Jesus' time, well within Mark's life.
kingdavid246 2 years ago
And as I was saying, Josephus mentioned Jesus twice, in books 18 and 20 of "Antiquities". The reference in book 18 was interpolated, but the reference in book 20 is genuine, which says: "Calling forth the members of the Sanhedrin, he (Annas) brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, and others with him."
So that's three historians who mentioned Jesus, with no evidence of any of these being fraudulent.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Josephus has been considered fradulent for over 400 years. Let it go.
Tacitus and Pliny were both born too late to have been contemporaries of Christ.
Maybe I should have been specific......
Find historical reference to Christ written by those who were alive at the time he was supposed to have lived.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"Josephus has been considered fradulent for over 400 years. Let it go."
The reference in book 20 is not considered fraudulent, only the reference in book 18 is.
"Find historical reference to Christ written by those who were alive at the time he was supposed to have lived. "
There aren't any, which is true of almost everyone who lived at the time. Practically all history is written after the fact by people who didn't personally witness the events.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Of course history is written after the fact, but any history written many years after the fact has to be suspect. There is a huge difference between writing something immediately after the event and years later.
However, you JUST admitted that there is no historical evidence written by those who are the contemporaries of Christ. They don't have to be eye witnesses, merely alive when Christ was.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"Of course history is written after the fact, but any history written many years after the fact has to be suspect. There is a huge difference between writing something immediately after the event and years later."
Not really. Most of what we know about Alexander the Great comes from historians who lived *centuries* after Alexander, but is considered reliable.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
"However, you JUST admitted that there is no historical evidence written by those who are the contemporaries of Christ. They don't have to be eye witnesses, merely alive when Christ was."
Actually, the entire New Testament was written by contemporaries of Christ, and that's around 1000 pages and mentions Him frequently. But since you probably reject that evidence, I'll just say that practically everyone who lived in Jesus' time and place wasn't mentioned by historians who lived when they did.
kingdavid246 2 years ago
You know, if there was some dude traveling the area performing amazing miracles and doing spectacular things, you would think that those who were around when it happened might mention it. NO ONE DID. Which leads us right back to where we started.
There was no actual person of Jesus Christ.
End of discussion.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"You know, if there was some dude traveling the area performing amazing miracles and doing spectacular things, you would think that those who were around when it happened might mention it. NO ONE DID."
Most of the New Testament authors were around when it happened, and they mentioned it. We don't know who else may or may not have mentioned it, since most of what was written around that time wasn't passed down 2000 years to this day.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Didn't the followers of Apollonius of Tyanaeus mention his miracles?
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"Didn't the followers of Apollonius of Tyanaeus mention his miracles?"
I think so. But keep in mind that the consensus is that Appollonius was a real person.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
(Pliny, continued) "Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshiped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ"
(continued)
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Pliny wrote, "Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ — none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do — these I thought should be discharged..." (continued, it's long)
kingdavid246 2 years ago
""Skeptic Magazine" isn't a scholarly reference. It's a magazine.
Put out by a scientific and educational organization of scholars, scientists, professors, teachers, etc.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
and what if just what if God does exist just what if what will you do then ?. . .there just has to be something prior to all of this its such a mind-twisting subject no one knows and probably no one will ever truly know for a long time. . . my friend suggested we could be living in a blood cell of a being from another dimension haha i laugh but it could be possible
Tamagumo 2 years ago
Steven King once said in a book of his that what defeats us in our knowledge is not time but size. If you continue to look at smaller and smaller things you go from cells to molecules then atoms then electrons, protons and neutrons which are basically just energy, then what... quarks? then what ....nothing?its hard to say that it comes down to nothing, but with our limited technology we cant see any smaller, or bigger then our own universe. for all we know we are in that blood cell.
alianchild 2 years ago
If we are just part of that cell and theists have deemed that cell to be a part of god, how could the being consciously intervene in our lives? How can we not come to the conclusion that our cells could be harbouring an almost infinite number of universes and we are being called god by the inhabitants of those universes. If it is size that rules all things then we are unknowing and,for most, unwilling gods. Just like the being whose cell we occupy. But, it could also be bullshit.
alianchild 2 years ago
so what does this mean ? ? religion is a made up story reproduced again and again only to accomodate time and culture or what ? ?there has to be something man there just has to the might not be a man with a beard or an elephant with 8 arms but there has to be SOMETHING. .
Tamagumo 3 years ago
"so what does this mean ? ?"
All it means is that some people are so desperate to disprove Christianity that they'll make stuff up about pre-Christian gods, hoping their audience is unfamiliar with the actual stories and gullible enough to believe them. About 95% of the claims Christ-mythers make about pre-Christian deities is completely false, including all of the Horus claims in this video. Do some fact-checking, people! Don't be gullible!
David
kingdavid246 3 years ago
The facts in this video are completely verifiable. It was commonly known to early Christian leaders that Jesus was a recycled telling of an old tale they were already familiar with.
However, if you're able to give me non-Christian references.....scholarly references.....that refute the facts of this video, I'd love to see them. I'd also like to see historical (non-Biblical) proof of the existence of Christ, if you can manage that as well. He's not mentioned by any historian of the time.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"The facts in this video are completely verifiable."
How? Can you find versions of the Horus, etc. stories where these things happen? Photos of the glyphs?
"However, if you're able to give me non-Christian references.....scholarly references.....that refute the facts of this video, "
Sure. "Skeptic Magazine" did an article debunking Zeitgeist in its most recent issue. Google "Skeptic Garbled" and it will be the first link you get.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Yes, you can find versions of the Horus story where these things happened. Read the about the life of Krishna. Readily and easily available. Modern Hindu scholars consider Krishna and Jesus to be different incarnations of the same person.
"Skeptic Magazine" isn't a scholarly reference. It's a magazine.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"Yes, you can find versions of the Horus story where these things happened."
Really? Where? I've been asking Christ-mythers to find me a version of the Horus story where these things happen for *years* and they never can.
"Read the about the life of Krishna."
I did. That's how I know this video's claims are false.
"Readily and easily available."
Then why can't Christ-mythers find them? Can you?
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Egyptian mythology. Give it a read. There are many versions and retellings.
If you'd actually read the life of Krishna, you would see the startling parallels. Finding the material on the life of Krishna IS easily and readily available.
However, even if there are variations of the Sun God story, it doesn't mean the Christ story isn't a retelling of an older myth. The existence of Christ is only a fact in the Bible.......a VERY unreliable source of historical facts.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"Egyptian mythology. Give it a read. There are many versions and retellings. "
None of which confirm these parallels. If you think there are any, find them and show them.
"If you'd actually read the life of Krishna, you would see the startling parallels."
And if you'd actually read the life of Krishna, you'd know the "parallels" aren't part of the story at all.
"The existence of Christ is only a fact in the Bible"
It's also confirmed by several non-Christian historians.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree......
You have your side, which you believe, and I have mine, which I also believe.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree......
You have your side, which you believe, and I have mine, which I also believe. "
You're certainly free to believe what you want. But when all evidence points to Jesus having existed and none points to Jesus being a fictional character based on pre-Christian mythology, then I think it would be smart to reconsider what you believe.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
No, all evidence does NOT point to the existence of an historical Jesus. The only "evidence" is scriptural. You can continue to believe that claptrap if you choose, but choosing to be blind doesn't mean you need a dog.
And I think you'd be smart to consider other spiritual paths and possibilities aside from the limited, xenophobic, misogynistic ideology that Christianity is.
Aardvarks and antelopes......there is more than one path to the water hole.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"The only "evidence" is scriptural."
No. As I already said, we also have several non-Christian historians who confirm Jesus' existence.
But of course, the best evidence for Jesus' existence is that those arguing against it have been fabricating evidence (this Horus, Mithra, etc. garbage) to make their point. Why would they be fabricating evidence unless they knew the valid evidence favored Jesus' existence?
Feel free to believe what you want, but I'll go where the evidence points.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
No, those supposed you mentioned don't mention Jesus, except for Josephus who was found to be a fraud and forgery over 400 years ago.
And it's not "fabricating evidence" to show there is no historical evidence of Jesus or to point out the similarities between the Christ figure and previous gods.
Admit it, you're a Christian because you're afraid of hell, aren't you?
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"No, those supposed you mentioned don't mention Jesus, except for Josephus who was found to be a fraud and forgery over 400 years ago."
Only one of Josephus' two references was a forgery. The other is genuine. And, yes, Pliny the Younger and Tacitus did mention Jesus, and Suetonius probably did as well.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
"And it's not "fabricating evidence" to show there is no historical evidence of Jesus or to point out the similarities between the Christ figure and previous gods."
It is when there *is* historical evidence of Jesus and *no* versions of the Horus, Mithra, etc. stories where those things happen.
"Admit it, you're a Christian because you're afraid of hell, aren't you? "
If I was a non-believer, I wouldn't believe in hell, so why would I be afraid of something I don't believe in?
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Look, skippy, as you don't believe my evidence and I don't believe yours, it looks like we will have to agree to disagree.
Move on with your life. You're not going to make any converts here.
Oh, and you're doublespeak didn't answer the question.....guess it was a bit too close for comfort.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"as you don't believe my evidence"
What evidence? I've been asking Christ-mythers for evidence for years, and none have provided me with any. If you have any, I'd love to see it. In fact, I have a website where I'm offering up to $1000 to anyone who can provide evidence, such as a version of the story, backing up the common Christ-myther claims for any one deity, such as Horus, Mithra, Krishna, etc. If you google "KingDavid8 challenge", it should be the first link you get.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
What-the-fuck-ever.
You're one of those people who wouldn't believe ANY evidence that goes against your personal beliefs. It matters not what ANYONE says.
Now, you're dismissed.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"You're one of those people who wouldn't believe ANY evidence that goes against your personal beliefs. It matters not what ANYONE says."
It's not a case of me not believing the evidence. It's a case of there not being any evidence in the first place. Christ-mythers claim that these stories exist, but they don't.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
I reiterate......
WHAT-THE-FUCK-EVER.
As far as I'm concerned, there's no evidence for the existence of Christ.
I think they call this a Mexican Stand-Off...........
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"As far as I'm concerned, there's no evidence for the existence of Christ."
To rational people, references to Jesus by mutiple historians would be evidence that someone existed. I can't think of a single time that a historian wrote about a fictional character as if that character existed, but Christ-mythers would have us believe that at least three historians did so.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
How sly you are with the backhanded insult.
I'm not as passive-aggressive, so I'm going to come right out and call you a deluded, brain-washed, idiotic, drone for the Church.
Virgin birth......talking snakes.....sticks that become snakes......talking bushes......millions of animals on one boat.......
Right.....I'm the irrational one.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"Right.....I'm the irrational one. "
If you believe that there are pre-Christian stories of Horus, Krishna, etc. which have the parallels that Christ-mythers claim, then, yes, you're irrational. The stories don't exist. If they did, Christ-mythers would be parading them for the world to see. Instead, they can't find them.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
YOU believe in virgin birth and a zombie with a heavenly agenda. There are so many Bible stories that are outright bullshit that is staggers the imagination how you can call someone else irrational with a straight face.
You have NO ROOM to call anyone irrational.
You're living in a glass house and trying to throw rocks.
Oh, it is so true.....the religious are stupid and blind ON PURPOSE.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
The difference is that when I say that there are texts which say these things, there are. Feel free to call me irrational for believing in them, but at least I believe in texts which do exist. As for you, the texts you claim exist don't even exist. I believe in something for which some could call the evidence questionable. You believe in something for which there is zero evidence to begin with.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
See, that's where you're mislead.
Josephus was uncovered as a fraud over 400 years ago and NO OTHER Roman historian mentioned Christ.
I know you mentioned two who supposedly did, so here's a challenge for YOU. Find those specific references to your supposed historical Christ and give references. Find me the English translation(scholarly, not theological--can't trust the theologians) of these supposed texts.
Put your money where your mouth is.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
No problem.
Tacitus wrote "Christus, from whom the name (Christians) had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus"
(continued)
kingdavid246 2 years ago
I didn't mean for you to quote something that I have NO idea where it comes from.
REFERENCE an English translation.
Your Tacitus quote may be faulty or taken out of context.
Also, your Pliny quote is about Christians, not Christ and even if it is correct, wouldn't be witness proof of the existence of Christ.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"REFERENCE an English translation. "
Tacitus' reference was in Annals 15:44, and there's no reason to doubt its authenticity.
Pliny's was in Letters 10:96-97, and he mentions "Christ" twice.
Josephus' was in "Antiquities of the Jews", book 20, ch. 9.
I can't post links here, but if you want me to message direct links to you, I will. Otherwise, these are easy to find through Google.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
I Googled it.
Josephus works were doctored by Eusibius. Tacitus and Pliny the Younger both were born AFTER Christ supposedly lived. Yes, they both mention Christ, but it merely indicates the prescence of Christians in the 1st century, a fact no one denies.
DO NOT REFERENCE JOSEPHUS AS HE IS A FRAUD AND HAS BEEN CONSIDER SUCH FOR OVER 400 YEARS.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"Josephus works were doctored by Eusibius."
I don't know how many times I need to say it, but the reference in book 18 was the only one interpolated. The reference in book 20 is genuine, and we know it was part of the text prior to Eusebius' time, since it was referenced by Origen, who lived a century before Eusebius.
"Yes, they both mention Christ"
Good, so I gave you what you asked for. And now you're moving the goalposts.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Oh, taking things out of context.....sneaky.
Tacitus and Pliny merely prove that Christians existed in the first century. Nothing more.
I'm not "moving goalposts". You have yet to prove Christ lived.....because he didn't. He's a fairy tale.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"Tacitus and Pliny merely prove that Christians existed in the first century. Nothing more."
No, since Tacitus also told us about Jesus' execution by Pontius Pilate.
"I'm not "moving goalposts"."
Yes, you are. You told me to name some historians who mentioned Him, and I did. Then you wanted to limit it to contemporary historians so that you could reject the evidence I presented. How is that not moving goalposts?
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Tacitus derived his sources from the Christians. It proves nothing.
How about the historians who never mentioned him? Philo never mentions him.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"Tacitus derived his sources from the Christians."
Unlikely, considering how much Tacitus hated Christians.
"How about the historians who never mentioned him? Philo never mentions him. "
I'm sure there were many people who existed in Jesus' day that Philo didn't mention. Besides, if Philo had mentioned Jesus, I'm sure Christ-mythers would find a way to dismiss the references the same way they dismiss Tacitus, Pliny the Younger and the Josephus reference in book 20.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Tacitus never "hated" the Christians. We dismis Tacitus because we cannot cite him as proof that the Jewish godman existed. The same would apply to Josephus and all the others.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"Tacitus never "hated" the Christians."
You can't be serious. He called them "evil", "hated for their abominations", "a mischievous superstition", and "hideous and shameful". That doesn't sound like hatred to you?
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Tacitus is recording an account; he does not reveal any emotion such as hatred. He quotes that they were "were hated for their enormities." But all this is mere tick-for-tat, as Tacitus was born in 56AD, and started to write in 115AD so you're argument that Tacitus is proof would never stand up in a court of law.
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
"Tacitus is recording an account; he does not reveal any emotion such as hatred"
He sure does. Read it.
"you're argument that Tacitus is proof would never stand up in a court of law."
I never said it was "proof". I said it was "evidence". And if all evidence says that an individual existed, and there is none to the contrary, the most reasonable conclusion is that the person existed. Three historians talking about him as if he existed is very good evidence.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Josephus was born in 37 AD.
He was not a contemporary of Christ either.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
"Josephus was born in 37 AD. "
Yep, and he wrote about many people who lived before he was born, including Julius Caesar. Should we reject everything he, and other historians, wrote about people who died prior to the time he was born?
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
"I'd also like to see historical (non-Biblical) proof of the existence of Christ, if you can manage that as well."
No problem. At least three non-Christian historians mentioned Jesus within 100 years of His time. Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, and Josephus. Yes, one of Josephus' references was at least partially interpolated, but the latter reference to Jesus, in book 20 of "Antiquities" is undoubtedly genuine.
David
kingdavid246 2 years ago
Josephus was found to be a fraud over 400 years ago.
Tacitus and Pliny the Younger just do not mention him. If you happen to have a reference.....please share, but I've not found these so-called references.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
WHY does there HAVE to be something, or someone for that matter, what if it realy was nothing that caused everything, what if the scientific hypothesis of vacuum fluctuations being the first cause is true. There is evidence that the absence of everything ie. a perfect vacuum spontaneously produces energy which then spontaneously produces matter. But no evidence whatsoever to support a belief in God.
alianchild 2 years ago
well man i dnt really know but i read the other day that god makes himself known through art because he himself is an artist, like for example why do certain creatures look the way they do why are there these fish with bright patterns on them and why does the zebra have stripes and the leopard spots and then they say they evolved them for some reason what is the damn reason ?camouflage ?why are they so appealing to the human eye ? i dont think this is a good justification but ehh . . .
Tamagumo 2 years ago
Why does there have to be something?
And could it be something other than a god or creator?
But really, WHY does there have to be something and what sort of something are you thinking there is?
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
there has to be something because i dont know man i use think about this on a regular basis, but since my sleeping disorder developed ive forgotten so much my memory has gone down the tube. . but dont think in this literal world think about love. i believe this is the most difficult subject on this whole planet and i believe no one will ever know till the creator himself,itself appears, if there is 1. . .till then live in complete love and peace for there is no need for anything else, NO NEED.
Tamagumo 2 years ago
John Lennon said it best......
"All You Need Is Love"
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
yeah, and beware of the false my friend.
later.
P&L
Tamagumo 2 years ago
Most impressive....Mr. Crowley....hehe.
BRIERFOX 3 years ago
This isn't yours!!
Way to go!! Assbag!!
SlashIStheShit 3 years ago
You copied this from Zeitgeist.
uptown132 3 years ago
Caster,
you don't understand the Bible. It was not written to be taken literally, only Protestants believe this and the are idiots. To understand the Bible you must read it figuratively or even metaphorically.
The reason for Catholic anger(the inquisition ect) about the Protestant reading of the Bible is because of this reading of the Bible which completely distorts the spirit and meaning of the Bible and places it in an ideological straight-jacket.
Who started it all then, any ideas?
Paddywagonexpress 3 years ago
im pretty sure the bible was intented to be intepreted literally. if youre a believer, and you say its metaphor, then your questioning the whole foundations of your faith. Catholics distorted the bible. nowhere does the bible mention popes.
vathuglife101 3 years ago 4
The whole pope thing came in when the Romans adopted christianity, the pope is essentially the emperor of christianity (the first pope being Emperor Constanine I).
Christianity wasn't one consistent religion until then anyway, when the Romans took it they collected all the stories together and kept the ones they liked.
Ever read the gospels of Judas, Andrew or Thaddeus? The Romans didn't like them so they were dropped. All of christianity stems from catholicism these days.
TheAngryBum 3 years ago 2
It is nice to see you put so much time in to learning, nothing.ALL YOUR STATEMENTS ARE WRONG!!!
eyesawit2 3 years ago
first off that's paganism.You should do your own research instead of stealing clams off the zeitgeist film its sad that people can't even think for them self's with out using someones Else's sited clams To help refute or debunk a certain clam. Be original think on your fucking own.
daveyaboy 3 years ago 2
I'm not going to take issue with your use of "history" and mythology. I just wish that you owned a dictionary and knew how to use it. Hour and horizon are Greek and have nothing to do with an Egyptian god. Sunset is an entirely Germanic word and has nothing to do with an Egyptian god. There are other etymological mistakes. What can I say? Sometimes words have fairly "boring" etymologies, so I understand why people read a bunch of nonsense into them, but seriously... buy a dictionary!
MrMergi 3 years ago
Watch my film that I posted as a response.
Everything you just said has been refuted.
No scholars agree with this not even atheist.
Only fringe people do and most only have a BA...
KeithTruth 3 years ago
yeah i saw zeitgiest to.
Raving4Beauty 3 years ago
Our father, of all us,
Of the poor, of those without roof,
Of those excluded and of the unprotected,
Of those disinherited and of the owners of the misery,
Of those that follow you and of those that in you, we no longer believe.
come down from the skies, because here the hell is,
come down of your throne, because here are wars, hunger, injustices.
Hu4z 3 years ago
Hu4z 3 years ago
Hu4z 3 years ago