Pt1 of 6:Is There Salvation Outside of the Church?- Sungenis

[14alonso88]

PT 3 Hail, Cross, of hopes the most sublime!

Now in this mournful Passion time,

Improve religious souls in grace,

The sins of criminals efface.

Blest Trinity, salvation's spring,

May every soul Thy praises sing;

To those Thou grantest conquest by

The holy Cross, rewards apply. Amen.

[14alonso88]

That which the Prophet-King of old Hath in mysterious verse foretold, Is now accomplished, whilst we see God ruling nations from a Tree. O lovely and reflugent Tree, Adorned with purpled majesty; Culled from a worthy stock, to bear Those Limbs which sanctified were. Blest Tree, whose happy branches bore The wealth that did the world restore; The beam that did that Body weigh Which raised up hell's expected prey.

[14alonso88]

PT1 Abroad the Regal Banners fly, Now shines the Cross's mystery; Upon it Life did death endure, And yet by death did life procure. Who, wounded with a direful spear, Did, purposely to wash us clear From stain of sin, pour out a flood Of precious Water mixed with Blood. That which the Prophet-King of old Hath in mysterious verse foretold, Is now accomplished, whilst we see God ruling nations from a Tree.

[dacatholicbandorgan]

Its the Guasti Church! This Parish is a breath of Fresh Air for me. I mean reall, I wish Fr.Marx. was my Pastor.

[TheDarkLordLucifer]

A dark army marching in the twilight mist. A sorcerer leading his horde. It's the night when cowardly faith will die. Minions of the Devil soon to be dancing. And urinating on the battered body of christ. Tears of rage falling from god's eyes. Which are drowned out by laughter from the night. Where demons are now celebrating. White souls to the slaughter in the dark land. Where Lucifer has left his trail. We rise in the shadows of his kingdom. This night of Satan will never come to an end.

[pacislander4life]

I find it interesting how people who really believe in the devil or satan, and actually worship him, would take so much pride in siding with the weaker side... belief in Satan presupposes a belief in the existence of God, since the devil is a created being. As such, the creature is subordinate to the Creator... So, all i have to say, nice poem... I guess you guys have to have hope too, unfortunately it is a false one...

Pax Domine teccum,

Laurence

[averyisland15]

Only Jesus Christ can forgive sin, and If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead you shall be saved.

[pacislander4life]

Yes, and if the next day you then decide to reject Jesus and confess with your mouth that Brahma is Lord, then you shall not be saved...

-LG

[reformedman]

WOW!

This video is amazing.

Totally unbelievable.

Pray to dead people, UGH!

[pacislander4life]

Elijah was very much alive at the Transfiguration, more alive than anybody living on Earth.

[reformedman]

And? Did anyone in the bible pray to Elijah? What's your point?

My amazement is not that people are living right now in the spirit; my amazement is that anyone would pray to anyone that has no power. Why would anyone pray to a live person or to a dead person. Praying to a dead person is the same as praying to a live person, it has no effect, do you understand?

Sola Scriptura!

Don't make new things up!

[pacislander4life]

the etymology of the word "pray" means to ask... if we can ask a "powerless" friend to pray for us, and that is beneficial, then why can't we ask a "powerless" person in Heaven to pray for us? Where does it say in the Bible that this ability of others to pray for us ceases when one dies?

[reformedman]

because although the word pray does mean ask, it doesn't contextually mean "mere ask". The old English pray is different from my praying to my dead grandfather. We are to pray to God ALONE! No one else! Stop talking to dead people! When people went to Mary for help concerning the wine problem, she pointed to Jesus--Go to Jesus, Not Mary.

[pacislander4life]

pray is used in two senses in Catholic theology. To venerate and ask, and to worship. Worship goes to God alone.

[reformedman]

You are trying to avoid the point. We are not to ask anything spiritual of any being other than God alone. God alone is our supplier of our spiritual needs. No man is able to do ANYTHING to lift a finger for another person's spiritual conditition. Live persons may help with teaching or physical tangible things, but spiritual needs are SOLELY given by God ALONE.

[doggysector]

Sorry the people in Heaven are not dead. Revelation 5:7,8. The angels in Heaven deliver the prayers of saints to God. Also John conversed with an elder in Heaven in Chapter 7. Just like you ask a living person to pray for you we ask those in heaven to pray for us. The Bible says that God is the God of the living not the dead. Sorry you're wrong. They are alive and more so then you.

[doggysector]

No dead people in Heaven. Observe in Revelation in Chapter 5 "And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?" But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the ELDERS SAID TO ME, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed." Not dead.

[Philos2006]

We are in dire need of salvation from bigotry,hatred, racism,ignorance,religious strife etc. Religious salvation will be of no help to save the world. Peace !!

[fineca]

Well call him then and set a time&place! He's basically inviting you publicly, have u heard the talk with White? It'd be really good if you did everything you could to arrange it since both sides want it.

[pacislander4life]

Get me his number and I will call him... I emailed him twice, he never responded. He is not inviting me, he is inviting Sungenis...lol... I cant debate him... :-)

[fineca]

I used "you" in the plural, meaning mainline Catholics in the US, but of course more precisely Bob. I will send Gerry's number.

[dangerousdan71]

So is Sungenis going to debate James White again? eternal security? I really don't understand why White and Sungenis haven't debated each other on this topic. As in every debate they seem to have, White brings up the topic of eternal security! Pac do you know something we don't? What's the update on this debate taking place? Trust me the debate would be a sell out! Sungenis is at his best when he debates Calvinists, he has real gifts in this area.

[fineca]

Didn't you hear Matatics talk with White on the air just recently? It's still fresh on White's website you can listen to it. Matatics gives his info you can call him, and he said he wanted to debate but Sungenis backed off. Did Sungenis accept Matatics' challenge at the Lane debate?

[pacislander4life]

he sure did

[fineca]

Why won't Bob debate Gerry Matatics on this issue? Gerry said they had set up a debate but Bob backed off. Is he afraid? Gerry is a good speaker and has reputation, he can lead many astray. Let Bob show him to be wrong. I heard Bob's sedevacantism debate he can do better.

[pacislander4life]

They had a debate scheduled 2 years ago, but Matatics stopped responding to emails and didnt set up the place. Sungenis afraid of Matatics? Please. I've seen Matatics' debates with White. White toasted his rear end... At the debate between Lane and Sungenis, Matatics challenged Sungenis again... Now Matatics is nowhere to be found again.

[fineca]

By the way, how "traditional" or "mainline" is Sungenis? Does he for example accept the teachings of the papal encyclicals after Vatican II? I think he's written that we shouldn't pray with Protestants, but Ut unum sint says we should.

[pacislander4life]

Sungenis accepts Vatican II. I wouldnt pray with Protestants... We can pray for each other, certainly, but joint prayer? Not sure... Ask Sungenis what he thinks about it.

[Martinovichy]

As an atheist, I don't know wether to laugh or cry at this nonsense. I look forward to not being "saved".

[pacislander4life]

As a former atheist, I would say you could perhaps do both... thats why we have free will... as long as you dont do both at the same time. :-) God Bless.

[Studier101]

A definition of free-will might be helpful.

[pacislander4life]

the ability to choose, one or the other, without having been pre-disposed by a force outside of oneself.

[Studier101]

Good definition! The problem with using the term "free-will", though, is that man is pre-disposed within himself, i.e., by nature.

[pacislander4life]

yes, that is concupiscence, the effects of Original Sin. Our nature's have been wounded by the Fall, and thus, we are pre-disposed to sin, by nature... But, by grace, we are enabled to make a free choice, continue in darkness, or to come into the light.

[tleatherland]

As a good friend of mine says, "Those who don't believe in Hell will when they get there."

[pacislander4life]

Is your good friend Padre Pio? :-)

[tleatherland]

I like to think of him as my friend, but I actually first heard that from my earthly friend.