The whole lawsuit thing would be like if The Who sued Bachman Turner Overdrive's "You Aint Seen Nothing Yet" for playing Baba O'Riley Chords and stuttering like Roger in My Generation. But I guess that's just the way the music "business" goes....unfortunately.
What makes great music great is its ability to invoke a strong emotion/relation for the listener, this and bittersweet do that, where as the stones version does not.
@camelotgeorge33 So true. Keith Richards and Mick Jagger had absolutely nothing to do with this composition. Their song "The Last Time" is barely recognizable in this version. Andrew Oldham made something completely different of their average song.
mike and keith may get all thier royalties from The Verve for bittersweet symphony...and when i look at bittersweet symphony lyrics..i saw these line "Your slave to money and you die.." ...i hope you are reading theses Allen B. Klein
i don't think Keith and Mike go their fair share. But allen klien seems like money greedy person. he literally didn't care about the artist but rather wanted to make money of them.
the verve didn't actually rip it off as much as some people think. the verve actually got copyright to sample the Andrew Oldham version; but the then manager of the stones, Allen Klein, claimed the verve used too much of the sample in there song, and sued them for royalties even though the rolling stones arguably didn't write this music but rather andrew oldham
(Additionally, though the song was authored by The Rolling Stones, the Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra performed the sampled recording, and also filed suit upon the success of the song. When "Bittersweet Symphony" was nominated for a Grammy Award, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones were named as the nominees, rather than The Verve.
this was a remake of the last time by rolling stones converted in to classical music by one of their 1st producers doing the rolling stone's 1st album with an orchestra(which doesn't even sound remotely like the original song) the verve got in trouble 'cause they didn't ask permission to use it and give to companies for advertisement(nike) which really liked the song and didn't know the Andrew Oldham Orchestra did it first.i think this is the best song of all time behind john lennons imagine
The Verve did ask permission, and received it. Keith Richards and Mick Jagger felt that The Verve sampled too much. Also, The Verve did not want the songs to be used in commercials. However, as they lost the rights to the song, they had no say in its use, until they were able to establish moral right to the song.
@Munken13 No, the Verve ripped them off. This song was a rollings stones song and these guys covered it and the Verve now has to pay royalties to the stones for the song. Fucked up cause Bittersweet Symphony is a great song.
@sirtinycreep really; the Stones agreed to let them use it, then sued because they used "too much"; they took all the royalties and got songwriting credit for a cover of a cover, including it's all original lyrics; the only rip-off merchants are the Stones
see that ticks me off. Mack is looking like shit here. He has a spitting image, the Stones are raining on the Verve's parade. The Verve should've opened up for them on their tour, the publicity would've been interesting. After the 90's-the mainstream is marketing gimmickry.
Imitation is a form of flattery, free marketing if you will. Otherwise this band wouldn't be in anyone's consciousness today.
Too bad they decided to do bad business instead. Bitterness = opportunity costs.
In all honesty The Verve's - Bitter Sweet Symphony may be one of the greatest songs of all time...the blend of this beautiful track with those brilliant lyrics was quite the mix...and I say that in all honesty and respect to this original.
both the andrew oldham orchestra and keith richards & mick jagger got credited for this song after the Verve released the song so no need to cry for them.... they got properly paid
I have to disagree with those that think the Verve's version is better and I've always loved their version but this song is so much better without words...such rich orchestration.
It's too bad that The Verve didn't have proper representation when putting together Bitter Sweet Symphony. How is it that rappers seem to have card blanche when sampling songs? Many of them have used entire songs. But a musician can get ripped because he's not rhyming? Sup with that? It's crazy. The Verve came up with one of the most awesome songs I've ever heard and because Klein's didn't sell one album, he rips off The Verve. Stones too. He'd be a ambulance chaser if he were a lawyer! Grrr
Your joking right? Rappers have been raped for not clearing samples.One of the biggest lawsuits was the sample of Lyn Collins-Think. for Rob Base & Dj Ez Roc's "It Takes Two". They didn't clear the sample after it's release Same situation as the Verve.
Well it's actually producers who make the music for rappers . You're opinion is respected,but the all the Verve did was recycle this old song into a hit. Which hip hop was doing long before Bitter Sweet Symphony.
Have you ever even listened to music like Eminem or Biggie? I'd like to see you try to string together words like they do. Go try it, and then we will see who has more talent.
Ya got me. Didn't konw about that. Didn't do my homework before I posted. Just a damn shame to see the Verve the ripped because they came up with a better song than Klein. Even if they did recycle Klein's song into a hit...
According to Wikipedia: Originally, The Verve had negotiated a license to use a sample from the Oldham recording, but was argued the Verve used 'too much' of the sample. Despite having original lyrics, the music of "Bitter Sweet Symphony" is partially based on the Oldham track, which led to the lawsuit
"We were told it was going to be a 50/50 split, and then they saw how well the record was doing," said Simon Jones, "They rung up and said 'we want 100 per cent or take it out of the shops."
According to Wikipedia: Originally, The Verve had negotiated a license to use a sample from the Oldham recording, but was argued the Verve used 'too much' of the sample. Despite having original lyrics, the music of "Bitter Sweet Symphony" is partially based on the Oldham track, which led to the lawsuit
"We were told it was going to be a 50/50 split, and then they saw how well the record was doing," said Simon Jones, "They rung up and said 'we want 100 per cent or take it out of the shops."
Damn, that's just wrong. Sounds like a case of sour grapes because The Verve took a sound bite (or a sample) and made a much better song that Klein did. Granted, they used a bit of his orchestra's song but the Verves Bitter Sweet Symphony was so much better than Klein's work. Regardless of the fact that they sampled some of Klein's song. It's a shame that when it comes to musical cases such as this, the people who decide such cases should be musicians. Then The Verve would paid handsomely.
Well, Bittersweet Symphony used this the right way, and that's all that matters. Now, let's move on to bashing Jason Derulo. DAMN that guy ruined this.
The funny thing, when you think about it, is that they sampled a symphony, and the song was a big success, but that success was bittersweet. Bittersweet Symphony... you're a slave to money. And man you don't mess with Allen Klein, although I don't understand how they didn't just re-record the song with their own symphony. Spend ten grand and do it right and avoid the lawsuit....
I found this under Bitter Sweet Symphony - Wikipeadia. "Allen Klein's company owns the rights to the Rolling Stones material of the 1960s. The matter was eventually settled, with copyright of the song reverting to ABKCO and songwriting credits to Jagger and Richards."We were told it was going to be a 50/50 split, and then they saw how well the record was doing," says band member Simon Jones. "They rung up and said 'we want 100 per cent or take it out of the shops', you don't have much choice."
Even if it doesn't work that way legally, it sounds to me that Andrew O. wrote several new phrases with notes that are not to be found in Last Time. I know how to play both of this song and the only part that I find remotely familiar is the part that goes "Maybe the last time, I don't know, Oh no".
Hi anew, Mistake o' mine. It's not the Statler Singers it's another all black girl group of like the Elvis days or earlier. Forget the name. Stones lifted directly off of them and Klein should give their estate a %. Again let's see the fine print please of "Richard you can use the sample but just not too much of it." If it's not in writing then the loop is harmelss and Klein must pay retroactive damages to both RA and those singers.
Hi, I saw at Verves video last sum barely at 12mill hits not a whopping 17mill! Klein hasnt stopped squat. He could at least give the Statler Singers a % who heavily influenced The Stones. BTW I'd luv to see the fine print of Klein's agreement when he accorded Ashcroft to use the bloody sample but not too much of it. If it's not in writing well then it's a shared copyright. Case closed!
This seems annoying debating about the Verve vs. Jagger/Richards, but there's some legal aspect behind this. Ashcroft might have "borrowed" and reworked it, but the final product seems so different from the original that it is so hard to tell if there was plagarism. It is not that hard to make a "new work" out of an existing song that is completely different.
Speaking as muscian composer, I think you are all getting it wrong. Bittersweet Symphony (the Verve version) is one of my all time favorite songs...I listen it on my way to every gig, which is several per week. In my opinion, if the Verve ( and I think this is their only decent song) were to pay anybody royalties for this song, they should pay it to Andrew Oldham whose rendition of this aledged Stone's song most truly exemplifies the version that the Verve has put words to. Fuck the Stones!
gretschviking...ur a hypocrite. go tell that to every musician today. nearly everything is sampled in a way. the verve is a great band, great song, they did have a contract. those a-holes wanted to get 100 percent when they realized this band managed to tap its greatness.
For me what Coldplay did in their song Viva la Vida, that sounds completely like Alizeé's big hit (I don't remember the name XD) is way far more plagiarism.
It wasn't whether they stole, because they had permission and had paid to use it. But they complained that the Verve Pipe had used too much of the song and not changed it enough for it to be constituted as a different song. Basically verve pipe took the song and added lyrics + violin. They tried to settle for something like 50% royalties, but in the end 100% royalties were granting which lead to the Verve Pipe getting basically nothing off their billboard song ..lol...bittersweet indeed!
Then "Tom Tom Club" should have sued Mariah Carey back in 1995, as "Fantasy" is a lot more alike "Genius of Love" than "Bitersweet Simphony is to "The Last Time" (orchestral). What a pitty the only big hit for such a good band like The Verve went straight to the pocket of the Stone's former manager...
The Andrew Oldham Ochestra "version" sounds very little like "Last Time" imo. I agree the Verve ripped the orchestra off, but not the Stones. Basically, I think the AOC is either a very bad cover or a very wonderful original piece.
It's not a rip off when it's a negotiated sample. The Stones just got the arse when they heard how much of it was sampled. Personally I think it's very greedy on the their part- This arrangement isn't theirs, the track was based on an old gospel song, and they still had to gall to demand 100% and full writing credits.
Ridiculous considering how stinking rich they all were by 1997.
The Stones went for years before they even wrote their own music. I wonder how much the Rolling Stones have paid to all the blues artists whose songs powered their career in the beginning. My guess is not half as much as the Verve paid for this song.
At about 1:08 into this track you can hear the Last Time by the Stones. I don't know who arranged the instrumental of this track, but it's clear that the Verve (Ashcroft) nicked this and did a great job by adding lyrics. His problem was not with the Stones. Loog Oldman sold his interests in the Stones to Allan Klien who ripped off the Beatles, the Stones and anyone else he ever contracted with. Don't blame the Stones. It's Oldman and Klien that made sure the Verve got nothing.
This is very cool. I can see why the Verve sampled it - it makes sense. What I fail to see, however, is exactly what makes this a rendition of "The Last Time". No one could play the two songs for me, side by side or otherwise, and convince me they were from the same source.
Again people: the Verve sampled this recording AND BLATANTLY STOLE THE MELODY! Not what was originally contracted and besides, sampling someone else's music and incorporating it into your "own creation" is NOT songwriting! Where have the Verve been since? They are one hit wonders and all because they stole a song from the Rolling Stones. Lesson learned on their part.
You could consider that capitalists milked the verve song for every penny because of its success. Find me 10 original melodies in modern music, champ! The true guts of the song are within the lyrics. That being said this song bored me 1 minute in and is far from "last time"
Find 10 original melodies in modern music? Sorry, but I really can't- nor would I care to try- but does that makes it OK for the Verve to blatantly rip off the Stones? That's worse than any Capitalist daring to make money! If it bores you then oh well but this most certainly is "The Last Time"- at a much slower pace. Without the Stones tune, the stale "gutsy lyrics" would be nothing but another bunch of random words floating about in never never land. Just what we need, more angry lyrics!
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covers aren't stealing..HAA... really its not... and that was a blatant rip off on the verves part... fuck the verve...this was thier only good song...they even try to be like older bands image wise...john lenon-ish glasses and stupid faces
thanks you for knowing what your talking about as far as cover songs.... man this song proves it was a big ripoff on the verves part... but I rather them find it then some wack ass "rapper"...YA DIG?
The Verve had originally got a license to use a sample from the Andrew Oldham Orchestra recording of The Rolling Stones' 1965 song "The Last Time." But after the Stones saw how great the record was doing, they sued and the courts ruled it was to be a 50/50 split. Then as the song became more popular, they (The Stones) decided they wanted 100% of the proceeds.
Moby sampled this too... "Water Verve". No law suit for him. Maybe the Rolling Stones just wished to capitalize on The Verve's success in taking a melody they had and bring it back to life?
ok honestly what the verve did was amazing and way better and different from this. quit arguing the verve has immense talent they just didnt get luck in becoming famous outside of Bittersweet symphony
if you are doing a report on this, also reserach what Vanilla Ice did with Under Pressure from Queen, M C Hammer with Super Freak ; and also include Kid Rock, who used the tunes from two different songs in " All summer long".
have you ever heard of the concept sampling? i think that is what you would consider what kid rock did with his all "summer long song," cause he is basically a "rapper," but i don't know? i'm no expert.
Totally is a strong word here. They already sought permission to use elements of this song, and they were granted it. Once the rolling stones got wind of Bittersweet Symphony's success, they sued because they sampled "more than agreed upon amount". They were splitting hairs.
exactly! I bet if it hadn't been so huge, the Stones wouldn't have cared less. They are greedy like everyone and want their piece. Besides, this version wasn't by the Stones it was actually by the manager doing his own side gig, if you listen to the actual version the Stones did it barely sounds anything like it, and nothing like Bittersweet Symphony. I can't believe they wont that case.
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lol Vanilla Ice did not steal Under Pressure from Queen you fool! he stole it from david bowie. please only open your mouth when you know wtf you're talking about. good day.
Everything has to be owned because a) They want to be famous, and b) They make money from what they make, it's how they make a living. Personally, I think bands themselves take the a) perspective, whereas their label/recording companies take the b) perspective. But I mean, saddasdas2, I mean, what if you made something really awesome, but someone else gets really famous for doing their own version of it?
i do not respect that as a motive to create art, therefore i have no sympathy.
giant record companies are the ones getting the $.
"..famous for doing their own version of it"
keyword OWN, their OWN version.
and as an visual artist i can proudly say that i wouldn't care if someone got "famous" for their OWN version, anyway no one's creation is ALL THEIR doings in the first place. in this culture, nothing is unique anymore, we're all just looking for the best rendition.
I could not have said it better myself! Exactly. There's no such thing as "original" anymore. Everyone is borrowing from everyone. Just earlier today I heard a song by Chicago that Green Day totally used the guitar riff from in one of their own songs. I don't know if they got permission to or not, but either way, it's done all the time. I bet you a million dollars if Bittersweet symphony hadn't been a huge hit, the Stones wouldn't have card less.
Not to interrupt all the arguing going on in the comments here, but I'm not hearing any of "The Last Time" in this, so I really have to ask why it has "The Last Time" in the title...
Because Verve sampled "The Last Time" or at least this orchestral version. And then after getting permission to use it, were removed of their rights to the song for allegedly "over using" the sample.
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This is like plagiarism. This is the Verve's magnum opus Bittersweet Symphony. Howcome Andrew Loog Oldham nicked it & put it out as a classical record. And musically it has not one note or phrase in common with the Rolling Stones' "The Last Time". So bizarre.
No, the Verve received permission to use a sample of it for their song. Then when it went big the owners decided to sue anyways so they could get all the money instead of half the money. Even though the Verve wrote the lyrics, they get 0% royalty, unfair.
i dont even understand how the stones should of gotten full royalties from the song, its was an original composition from the verve, they didnt even sample parts of the original song, they sampled a cover of the song, an instrumental cover of all things
I would say this looks like jealousy. The Verve is at least 10 times more talented that the Stones. When re-reading the whole affair the word shameless rip off springs to mind.
BSS is a good song. but the more I listen to this, the more I like this version better. at first I didn't like this one but now I love it. this has more of a majestic, epic tone to it.
i was thinking of this as I walked on stage for my college graduation. this song would go good as the soundtrack for achievement.
I wonder what all the children of the Rolling Stones think of this song and of "Bittersweet Symphony"? I'm naming names such as Marlon Richards, Jade Jagger, Angela Richards, Lizzie Jagger, Theodora Richards and Alexandra Richards. Note it was Angela who wisecracked about the Stones' 1997 song "Anybody Seen My Baby" sounding like k.d. lang's "Constant Craving."
The Verve did ask for permission over the "Last Time" sample at first, but the courts decided after the song's success that the band used more of the sample than what was called for.
Actually there was never a court case, The Verve gave up the royalties willingly in order to release the song in the first place. It was explained on an XFM documentary back in 2007.
Nope..The Verve sampled it with PERMISSION no doubt abut it search on wikipedia about the song.However it is true that bittersweet symphony would even exist if not for the rolling stone and i really dont think that the rolling stone last time is even more sweeter the verve bittersweet symphony
The way I see it, the Verve sampled a great loop and created a great song.
thechosen2010 1 year ago
The way I see it, the Verve sampled a great loop and created a great song.
thechosen2010 1 year ago
Allen Klein and Andrew Loog Oldham are TWATS. ASHCROFT IS A MUSICAL GENIUS.
theinck 1 year ago
The Last time..."an average song"????
Show a little respect!
Anyway I love both bands.
Rodrigoteacher 1 year ago
hey ragism
you big dummy
I wonder why a bagillion people bought the rolling stones single and no one knows this version
you are probably right this song is so much better
the whole of the world is dumb
and your musical tastes arnt gay
no matter how many thousands of people tell you otherwise
wheetie7 1 year ago
anyone know where i could download this, and where i could hear other andrew oldham orchestra stuff
FaultYesteryear 1 year ago 3
I think the Andrew Oldham orchestra deserved more credit than The stones.
candybooll 1 year ago 12
bittersweet symhony :)
interlagos23 1 year ago 6
The whole lawsuit thing would be like if The Who sued Bachman Turner Overdrive's "You Aint Seen Nothing Yet" for playing Baba O'Riley Chords and stuttering like Roger in My Generation. But I guess that's just the way the music "business" goes....unfortunately.
bostonredsox49 1 year ago
that was unfair, lots of singers uses samples on their songs & they don´t losses the royalties.
aa428507 1 year ago
What makes great music great is its ability to invoke a strong emotion/relation for the listener, this and bittersweet do that, where as the stones version does not.
camelotgeorge33 1 year ago 2
@2:25 sounds like the Stranglers with 'Skin deep'
Cheatingpoker 1 year ago
andrew should have the credit not the stones for bittersweet
camelotgeorge33 1 year ago 6
@camelotgeorge33 The Stones suck anyway, really.
xodudeitsemily 1 year ago 3
@camelotgeorge33 So true. Keith Richards and Mick Jagger had absolutely nothing to do with this composition. Their song "The Last Time" is barely recognizable in this version. Andrew Oldham made something completely different of their average song.
Ragism 1 year ago 4
Prehistoric Bittersweet symphony
Eestlane08 1 year ago 13
mike and keith may get all thier royalties from The Verve for bittersweet symphony...and when i look at bittersweet symphony lyrics..i saw these line "Your slave to money and you die.." ...i hope you are reading theses Allen B. Klein
Soulcarvers 1 year ago 4
Brilliant!
As Ashcroft said, was the last good song they "wrote"
Whatever happened to "It's all about the music"
The13thD1sciple 1 year ago
i don't think Keith and Mike go their fair share. But allen klien seems like money greedy person. he literally didn't care about the artist but rather wanted to make money of them.
reviewitorhateit 1 year ago 3
@reviewitorhateit maybe ! but that's probably the only really good song the Verve did
soulbwoyy 1 year ago
@soulbwoyy no the Verve have lots of great songs
zreidsnider 1 year ago
@soulbwoyy: "Love is noise" is pretty cool too.
tumbler62 1 year ago
I hope that SOB reads it too Soulcarvers,I hope he reads it too.
pokabeb 1 year ago
I can hear where The Verve ripped their version from.
Though, to be honest I prefer The Verve's version, minus the singing.
The1AndOnlyMike 1 year ago
the verve didn't actually rip it off as much as some people think. the verve actually got copyright to sample the Andrew Oldham version; but the then manager of the stones, Allen Klein, claimed the verve used too much of the sample in there song, and sued them for royalties even though the rolling stones arguably didn't write this music but rather andrew oldham
sij747 1 year ago
(Additionally, though the song was authored by The Rolling Stones, the Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra performed the sampled recording, and also filed suit upon the success of the song. When "Bittersweet Symphony" was nominated for a Grammy Award, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones were named as the nominees, rather than The Verve.
What BS. What greed. Long live the Verve.
RainPoetry 1 year ago 2
Allen Klein is (was) the "villain" after all...
Rodrigoteacher 1 year ago
this was a remake of the last time by rolling stones converted in to classical music by one of their 1st producers doing the rolling stone's 1st album with an orchestra(which doesn't even sound remotely like the original song) the verve got in trouble 'cause they didn't ask permission to use it and give to companies for advertisement(nike) which really liked the song and didn't know the Andrew Oldham Orchestra did it first.i think this is the best song of all time behind john lennons imagine
def2humans421 1 year ago
The Verve did ask permission, and received it. Keith Richards and Mick Jagger felt that The Verve sampled too much. Also, The Verve did not want the songs to be used in commercials. However, as they lost the rights to the song, they had no say in its use, until they were able to establish moral right to the song.
ThePhoenixArisen 1 year ago 3
Allen B. Klein rots in hell...
GruppeB 1 year ago
OMG they totally ripped off The Verve...... hahahaha :-)
Munken13 2 years ago
lawl.
Zehydra106 2 years ago
@Munken13 No, the Verve ripped them off. This song was a rollings stones song and these guys covered it and the Verve now has to pay royalties to the stones for the song. Fucked up cause Bittersweet Symphony is a great song.
Danklin24 2 years ago 5
Hahaha, I know; I was trying to be funny. Bittersweet symphony is my all time favorite song, so it's a real shame, they didn't make any money on it.
This piece of music is great, but with the lyrics of bittersweet symphony it just becomes even greater.... :-)
Munken13 2 years ago
it's hilarious. a truly bittersweet symphony. it wasn't the stones who wanted the lawsuit by the way, it was a man named allen klein
kevinjim33 1 year ago 2
@Munken13 oh ok my bad. i didnt catch the sarcasm lol
Danklin24 1 year ago
Comment removed
shimlaDnB 2 years ago
ABKCO Records can rot in hell.
adamhotgemini 2 years ago 2
The Verve = rip-off merchants.
sirtinycreep 2 years ago
@sirtinycreep really; the Stones agreed to let them use it, then sued because they used "too much"; they took all the royalties and got songwriting credit for a cover of a cover, including it's all original lyrics; the only rip-off merchants are the Stones
samhain6677 2 years ago 10
No, the Stones sued The Verve, and then The Verve had to properly credit Jagger and Richards as the writers, instead of Richard Ashcroft.
dgeleyn 2 years ago
see that ticks me off. Mack is looking like shit here. He has a spitting image, the Stones are raining on the Verve's parade. The Verve should've opened up for them on their tour, the publicity would've been interesting. After the 90's-the mainstream is marketing gimmickry.
Imitation is a form of flattery, free marketing if you will. Otherwise this band wouldn't be in anyone's consciousness today.
Too bad they decided to do bad business instead. Bitterness = opportunity costs.
therealcaptobvious 2 years ago 2
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Richard Ashcroft is a thief. Funny how everything he has done since has bombed.
sirtinycreep 2 years ago
Look up the history behind it.
Zehydra106 2 years ago
People wake up....the verve didn't rip anything off...they properly credited the stones.
doublestrokeroll 2 years ago
The Andrew Oldham Orchestra and the Verve and the Stones should to do one big long ass version!
6piecepearl 2 years ago 6
no shit. Tell Andrew please.
therealcaptobvious 2 years ago
hahahah WONDERFUL! =)
soshedancessss 2 years ago
Umm... Let's see...
The Last Time --> Bittersweet Symphony --> Ridin' Solo
?
Ghelios 2 years ago 2
so true.. i dislike jason derulo.
fffffuuuuu.
it's quite unfortunate.
bilamc12 1 year ago
Bittersweet Symphony was brilliant.
Not just the instrumentals, but the lyrics.
In my opinion they were cheated.
LieLindseyLie 2 years ago 4
This > Bittersweet Symphony.
gnizak 2 years ago
ARE. YOU. FUCKING. SERIOUS??
PureHardDance27 1 year ago
Where can i download this music please ?
Modjoe02 2 years ago
@Modjoe02
Free YouTube to MP3 Converter
Vogelfrei777 2 years ago
ok thanks :)
Modjoe02 1 year ago
In all honesty The Verve's - Bitter Sweet Symphony may be one of the greatest songs of all time...the blend of this beautiful track with those brilliant lyrics was quite the mix...and I say that in all honesty and respect to this original.
xsupermodel87 2 years ago 5
both the andrew oldham orchestra and keith richards & mick jagger got credited for this song after the Verve released the song so no need to cry for them.... they got properly paid
luppenflopp 2 years ago 3
I have to disagree with those that think the Verve's version is better and I've always loved their version but this song is so much better without words...such rich orchestration.
adsicks 2 years ago 10
I believe the lyrics to Bittersweet Symphony are part of its beauty.
RainPoetry 2 years ago 5
Despite the Verve ripping this off, "Bittersweet Symphony" is still one of the best songs ever made!
Dudeman612 2 years ago 7
it is, i just love the recurring violin from bittersweet. it may be based on the piano bit from this arrangement but overall, its a classic.
RawbThatPunk 2 years ago
WOw it really does sound very similiar. The Verve's version is much better though...
Natashalulu 2 years ago
the verve took the bit from 0:22
RawbThatPunk 2 years ago
Oldham, or whomever. deserved credit for this arrangement. The string line is awesome.
Last Time by the Staple Singers was an ancient tune. No credit should have been claimed by anyone really.
GwaiiEagle1 2 years ago 3
It's too bad that The Verve didn't have proper representation when putting together Bitter Sweet Symphony. How is it that rappers seem to have card blanche when sampling songs? Many of them have used entire songs. But a musician can get ripped because he's not rhyming? Sup with that? It's crazy. The Verve came up with one of the most awesome songs I've ever heard and because Klein's didn't sell one album, he rips off The Verve. Stones too. He'd be a ambulance chaser if he were a lawyer! Grrr
bossyboo29 2 years ago
Your joking right? Rappers have been raped for not clearing samples.One of the biggest lawsuits was the sample of Lyn Collins-Think. for Rob Base & Dj Ez Roc's "It Takes Two". They didn't clear the sample after it's release Same situation as the Verve.
djspair 2 years ago 3
Rappers are people without talent
psycovideos 2 years ago
Well it's actually producers who make the music for rappers . You're opinion is respected,but the all the Verve did was recycle this old song into a hit. Which hip hop was doing long before Bitter Sweet Symphony.
djspair 2 years ago
@psycovideos
Have you ever even listened to music like Eminem or Biggie? I'd like to see you try to string together words like they do. Go try it, and then we will see who has more talent.
KablesP 2 years ago
Ya got me. Didn't konw about that. Didn't do my homework before I posted. Just a damn shame to see the Verve the ripped because they came up with a better song than Klein. Even if they did recycle Klein's song into a hit...
bossyboo29 2 years ago
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According to Wikipedia: Originally, The Verve had negotiated a license to use a sample from the Oldham recording, but was argued the Verve used 'too much' of the sample. Despite having original lyrics, the music of "Bitter Sweet Symphony" is partially based on the Oldham track, which led to the lawsuit
"We were told it was going to be a 50/50 split, and then they saw how well the record was doing," said Simon Jones, "They rung up and said 'we want 100 per cent or take it out of the shops."
bossyboo29 2 years ago
rappers and producers usually always get permission from the original artist, these guys didnt even get permission to use it
westernrebel89 2 years ago
the verve thought they did
Zehydra106 2 years ago
According to Wikipedia: Originally, The Verve had negotiated a license to use a sample from the Oldham recording, but was argued the Verve used 'too much' of the sample. Despite having original lyrics, the music of "Bitter Sweet Symphony" is partially based on the Oldham track, which led to the lawsuit
"We were told it was going to be a 50/50 split, and then they saw how well the record was doing," said Simon Jones, "They rung up and said 'we want 100 per cent or take it out of the shops."
bossyboo29 2 years ago 2
lol, I was just on the wikipedia page a minute ago = P
brilliant song
N64isgreat 2 years ago 3
Thank God for Wikipedia! =D BTW, it's got to be 1 of my top 10 favorite songs of all time...
bossyboo29 2 years ago 3
@westernrebel89
agreed. 'bittersweet symphony' is a great song, but unfortunately they completely rippied this.
saxonsnowredux 2 years ago
It sounds so much better in BSS though, I think.
I don't think that it's fair that they got no money from it.
N64isgreat 2 years ago 2
Damn, that's just wrong. Sounds like a case of sour grapes because The Verve took a sound bite (or a sample) and made a much better song that Klein did. Granted, they used a bit of his orchestra's song but the Verves Bitter Sweet Symphony was so much better than Klein's work. Regardless of the fact that they sampled some of Klein's song. It's a shame that when it comes to musical cases such as this, the people who decide such cases should be musicians. Then The Verve would paid handsomely.
bossyboo29 2 years ago
Well, Bittersweet Symphony used this the right way, and that's all that matters. Now, let's move on to bashing Jason Derulo. DAMN that guy ruined this.
oneUNITED7SS 2 years ago
The funny thing, when you think about it, is that they sampled a symphony, and the song was a big success, but that success was bittersweet. Bittersweet Symphony... you're a slave to money. And man you don't mess with Allen Klein, although I don't understand how they didn't just re-record the song with their own symphony. Spend ten grand and do it right and avoid the lawsuit....
agalligani 2 years ago 3
trash compared to the verve's version. bittersweet symphony was the best thing to happen to any stones' song.
thetechnocrats 2 years ago
I found this under Bitter Sweet Symphony - Wikipeadia. "Allen Klein's company owns the rights to the Rolling Stones material of the 1960s. The matter was eventually settled, with copyright of the song reverting to ABKCO and songwriting credits to Jagger and Richards."We were told it was going to be a 50/50 split, and then they saw how well the record was doing," says band member Simon Jones. "They rung up and said 'we want 100 per cent or take it out of the shops', you don't have much choice."
bossyboo29 2 years ago
Even if it doesn't work that way legally, it sounds to me that Andrew O. wrote several new phrases with notes that are not to be found in Last Time. I know how to play both of this song and the only part that I find remotely familiar is the part that goes "Maybe the last time, I don't know, Oh no".
I should have also said, fuck the laywers.
spiggymonster 2 years ago
Hi anew, Mistake o' mine. It's not the Statler Singers it's another all black girl group of like the Elvis days or earlier. Forget the name. Stones lifted directly off of them and Klein should give their estate a %. Again let's see the fine print please of "Richard you can use the sample but just not too much of it." If it's not in writing then the loop is harmelss and Klein must pay retroactive damages to both RA and those singers.
kazzlestar 2 years ago
Hi, I saw at Verves video last sum barely at 12mill hits not a whopping 17mill! Klein hasnt stopped squat. He could at least give the Statler Singers a % who heavily influenced The Stones. BTW I'd luv to see the fine print of Klein's agreement when he accorded Ashcroft to use the bloody sample but not too much of it. If it's not in writing well then it's a shared copyright. Case closed!
kazzlestar 2 years ago
This seems annoying debating about the Verve vs. Jagger/Richards, but there's some legal aspect behind this. Ashcroft might have "borrowed" and reworked it, but the final product seems so different from the original that it is so hard to tell if there was plagarism. It is not that hard to make a "new work" out of an existing song that is completely different.
R36Redbird 2 years ago
Speaking as muscian composer, I think you are all getting it wrong. Bittersweet Symphony (the Verve version) is one of my all time favorite songs...I listen it on my way to every gig, which is several per week. In my opinion, if the Verve ( and I think this is their only decent song) were to pay anybody royalties for this song, they should pay it to Andrew Oldham whose rendition of this aledged Stone's song most truly exemplifies the version that the Verve has put words to. Fuck the Stones!
spiggymonster 2 years ago 4
ok before you guys say the verve is crap for not being creative...call out the stones first for ripping previous musicians
the verve got the samples from last time by the stones while they got that from This May Be The Last Time by the staple singers.
nothing is really unique in todays music. get used to it.
NflNCodFreak 2 years ago 8
All of whom got the tune from Pachabel's Cannon.
sciencealwayswins 2 years ago 6
So true.
Anonymous547 2 years ago
That isnt all true. many songs from bands such as linkin park, or disturbed, or even eminem are original, while others are not.
boombox695 2 years ago
gretschviking...ur a hypocrite. go tell that to every musician today. nearly everything is sampled in a way. the verve is a great band, great song, they did have a contract. those a-holes wanted to get 100 percent when they realized this band managed to tap its greatness.
NflNCodFreak 2 years ago 4
For me what Coldplay did in their song Viva la Vida, that sounds completely like Alizeé's big hit (I don't remember the name XD) is way far more plagiarism.
azalem 2 years ago
this is one of those songs that would be really powerful in a war movie or videogame trailer. or in the last fight in either.
AllCanadiaReject 2 years ago 3
It wasn't whether they stole, because they had permission and had paid to use it. But they complained that the Verve Pipe had used too much of the song and not changed it enough for it to be constituted as a different song. Basically verve pipe took the song and added lyrics + violin. They tried to settle for something like 50% royalties, but in the end 100% royalties were granting which lead to the Verve Pipe getting basically nothing off their billboard song ..lol...bittersweet indeed!
PerfectlyCromulent 2 years ago
this is nothing to do with Verve Pipe, its "The Verve" from uk
garphik 2 years ago 7
basically getting nothing? :D
raymondbros 2 years ago
Then "Tom Tom Club" should have sued Mariah Carey back in 1995, as "Fantasy" is a lot more alike "Genius of Love" than "Bitersweet Simphony is to "The Last Time" (orchestral). What a pitty the only big hit for such a good band like The Verve went straight to the pocket of the Stone's former manager...
David732008 2 years ago 3
Amazing melody!
verveverveverve 2 years ago 4
For anyone, who says this isn't related to "The Last Time", try playing this sped-up, it will be much more obvious then. ;)
OBrasilo 2 years ago
The Andrew Oldham Ochestra "version" sounds very little like "Last Time" imo. I agree the Verve ripped the orchestra off, but not the Stones. Basically, I think the AOC is either a very bad cover or a very wonderful original piece.
LTF6161 2 years ago 3
It's not a rip off when it's a negotiated sample. The Stones just got the arse when they heard how much of it was sampled. Personally I think it's very greedy on the their part- This arrangement isn't theirs, the track was based on an old gospel song, and they still had to gall to demand 100% and full writing credits.
Ridiculous considering how stinking rich they all were by 1997.
mrandy 2 years ago 4
The Stones went for years before they even wrote their own music. I wonder how much the Rolling Stones have paid to all the blues artists whose songs powered their career in the beginning. My guess is not half as much as the Verve paid for this song.
dLimboStick 2 years ago 3
At about 1:08 into this track you can hear the Last Time by the Stones. I don't know who arranged the instrumental of this track, but it's clear that the Verve (Ashcroft) nicked this and did a great job by adding lyrics. His problem was not with the Stones. Loog Oldman sold his interests in the Stones to Allan Klien who ripped off the Beatles, the Stones and anyone else he ever contracted with. Don't blame the Stones. It's Oldman and Klien that made sure the Verve got nothing.
Roofrocket 2 years ago 2
Amazing! :)
fuzzybuni 2 years ago
i agree tinkles i dont get it
nickgratton1 2 years ago
good stuff, wish they'd put some vocals on it though
bustedup 2 years ago
This is very cool. I can see why the Verve sampled it - it makes sense. What I fail to see, however, is exactly what makes this a rendition of "The Last Time". No one could play the two songs for me, side by side or otherwise, and convince me they were from the same source.
tinkles30 2 years ago
QFT¨^²
danazoppik 2 years ago
Its got to be said, this version is actually a lot better!!!
chiddas1991 2 years ago 3
Again people: the Verve sampled this recording AND BLATANTLY STOLE THE MELODY! Not what was originally contracted and besides, sampling someone else's music and incorporating it into your "own creation" is NOT songwriting! Where have the Verve been since? They are one hit wonders and all because they stole a song from the Rolling Stones. Lesson learned on their part.
gretschviking 2 years ago
You could consider that capitalists milked the verve song for every penny because of its success. Find me 10 original melodies in modern music, champ! The true guts of the song are within the lyrics. That being said this song bored me 1 minute in and is far from "last time"
killcaustic1102 2 years ago
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gretschviking 2 years ago
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gretschviking 2 years ago
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Find 10 original melodies in modern music? Sorry, but I really can't- nor would I care to try- but does that makes it OK for the Verve to blatantly rip off the Stones? That's worse than any Capitalist daring to make money! If it bores you then oh well but this most certainly is "The Last Time"- at a much slower pace. Without the Stones tune, the stale "gutsy lyrics" would be nothing but another bunch of random words floating about in never never land. Just what we need, more angry lyrics!
gretschviking 2 years ago
the verve gave rolling stones 100% of the royalites they recieved
8arctic2 2 years ago
let's not forget the countless songs stolen by the rolling stones now....
dchs11 2 years ago 5
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covers aren't stealing..HAA... really its not... and that was a blatant rip off on the verves part... fuck the verve...this was thier only good song...they even try to be like older bands image wise...john lenon-ish glasses and stupid faces
Gmoreno89 2 years ago
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covering= not having ur own ideas and using another artists song to gain success.
dchs11 2 years ago
covers aren't stealing if you give credit to the actual writers/composers, get permission to cover it, and pay the proper royalties.
LTF6161 2 years ago 3
thanks you for knowing what your talking about as far as cover songs.... man this song proves it was a big ripoff on the verves part... but I rather them find it then some wack ass "rapper"...YA DIG?
Gmoreno89 2 years ago
The Verve had originally got a license to use a sample from the Andrew Oldham Orchestra recording of The Rolling Stones' 1965 song "The Last Time." But after the Stones saw how great the record was doing, they sued and the courts ruled it was to be a 50/50 split. Then as the song became more popular, they (The Stones) decided they wanted 100% of the proceeds.
bossyboo29 2 years ago 4
Awesome!!!
Grandma mary
Fr3derick 2 years ago
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haddles2000 2 years ago
Moby sampled this too... "Water Verve". No law suit for him. Maybe the Rolling Stones just wished to capitalize on The Verve's success in taking a melody they had and bring it back to life?
Huh.
JarrodES13 2 years ago 5
ok honestly what the verve did was amazing and way better and different from this. quit arguing the verve has immense talent they just didnt get luck in becoming famous outside of Bittersweet symphony
ryansoccer891 2 years ago 4
This was the Verves expensive education.
emmon72cz3x 2 years ago
Plagiarism? Did someone say Plagiarism?
if you are doing a report on this, also reserach what Vanilla Ice did with Under Pressure from Queen, M C Hammer with Super Freak ; and also include Kid Rock, who used the tunes from two different songs in " All summer long".
Why isn't anyone bothering them?
danny2mil 2 years ago
have you ever heard of the concept sampling? i think that is what you would consider what kid rock did with his all "summer long song," cause he is basically a "rapper," but i don't know? i'm no expert.
fjsfjsh 2 years ago
They are, asshole, you do the research, for instance, Vanilla Ice got super sued. So did MC Hammer.
THE VERVE totally ripped off this song.
buchelon 2 years ago
Totally is a strong word here. They already sought permission to use elements of this song, and they were granted it. Once the rolling stones got wind of Bittersweet Symphony's success, they sued because they sampled "more than agreed upon amount". They were splitting hairs.
mmjahink 2 years ago 3
They were to be sued and got to an agreement.
They didn't sign it first.. .so total rip off
buchelon 2 years ago
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Your a Moron who obviously knows nothing about music........
JG129 2 years ago
LMAO---- yeah yeah... whatever little donkey fucker.
buchelon 2 years ago
exactly! I bet if it hadn't been so huge, the Stones wouldn't have cared less. They are greedy like everyone and want their piece. Besides, this version wasn't by the Stones it was actually by the manager doing his own side gig, if you listen to the actual version the Stones did it barely sounds anything like it, and nothing like Bittersweet Symphony. I can't believe they wont that case.
sarahmyst 2 years ago
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lol Vanilla Ice did not steal Under Pressure from Queen you fool! he stole it from david bowie. please only open your mouth when you know wtf you're talking about. good day.
Cheesenugg89 2 years ago
you're of course assuming that you know what you're talking about and he doesn't. How do you know you're not wrong?
Zehydra106 2 years ago 2
Way to make a fool out of yourself cheesie! Do your homework.
Under Pressure - Queen ft. David Bowie
djeanta 2 years ago 5
wow. this version is way slower. but i can see the simlarities.
jonnyoceanman 2 years ago
They should have conceded the lyrics royalties to The Verve.
JennyKirkineska 2 years ago 3
it's creative license, they did their cover, their personal rendition...
why does everything have to be OWNED, this MINE culture is grossing me out.
saddasdas2 2 years ago 6
Very well put. Respect.
BINGBONGGG 2 years ago 2
why, thank you! :D
saddasdas2 2 years ago
Everything has to be owned because a) They want to be famous, and b) They make money from what they make, it's how they make a living. Personally, I think bands themselves take the a) perspective, whereas their label/recording companies take the b) perspective. But I mean, saddasdas2, I mean, what if you made something really awesome, but someone else gets really famous for doing their own version of it?
Zehydra106 2 years ago
in terms of money&fame.
i do not respect that as a motive to create art, therefore i have no sympathy.
giant record companies are the ones getting the $.
"..famous for doing their own version of it"
keyword OWN, their OWN version.
and as an visual artist i can proudly say that i wouldn't care if someone got "famous" for their OWN version, anyway no one's creation is ALL THEIR doings in the first place. in this culture, nothing is unique anymore, we're all just looking for the best rendition.
saddasdas2 2 years ago 2
I could not have said it better myself! Exactly. There's no such thing as "original" anymore. Everyone is borrowing from everyone. Just earlier today I heard a song by Chicago that Green Day totally used the guitar riff from in one of their own songs. I don't know if they got permission to or not, but either way, it's done all the time. I bet you a million dollars if Bittersweet symphony hadn't been a huge hit, the Stones wouldn't have card less.
sarahmyst 2 years ago 9
The Verve actually did not make any money off of this song. All the royalties went to the Rolling Stones.
davejm 2 years ago
Not on a cell phone. If you listen closely, this is real music. Wash your ears if You have to many trash in them. wanna contact You!!!
rolllyadam 2 years ago
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Lol this sounds like it was recorded on someones cell phone
hisanta32 2 years ago
i'm doing a report on this for a class on plagiarism, anyone have info or opinions?
ip900 2 years ago
watch
"RiP! A Remix Manifesto"
you can watch it for free on Hulu, I think it would be really helpful when writing your report...
saddasdas2 2 years ago
thank you so much! I really do appreciate it!
ip900 2 years ago
did you watch it? if so, what did you think of it?
saddasdas2 2 years ago
the verve did it differently though, you can tell by listening. its bullshit they didnt get royalties.
MrDemoniska 2 years ago
Not to interrupt all the arguing going on in the comments here, but I'm not hearing any of "The Last Time" in this, so I really have to ask why it has "The Last Time" in the title...
TwentyCarlo 2 years ago
Because Verve sampled "The Last Time" or at least this orchestral version. And then after getting permission to use it, were removed of their rights to the song for allegedly "over using" the sample.
xXWickedWazzaXx 2 years ago
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This is like plagiarism. This is the Verve's magnum opus Bittersweet Symphony. Howcome Andrew Loog Oldham nicked it & put it out as a classical record. And musically it has not one note or phrase in common with the Rolling Stones' "The Last Time". So bizarre.
BirgitMunro 2 years ago
You are joking, I hope.
steveconn 2 years ago 2
Yes, it is a joke xD
kylep2 2 years ago
No, the Verve received permission to use a sample of it for their song. Then when it went big the owners decided to sue anyways so they could get all the money instead of half the money. Even though the Verve wrote the lyrics, they get 0% royalty, unfair.
Nox404 2 years ago 12
i dont even understand how the stones should of gotten full royalties from the song, its was an original composition from the verve, they didnt even sample parts of the original song, they sampled a cover of the song, an instrumental cover of all things
theWhoRock91 2 years ago
I would say this looks like jealousy. The Verve is at least 10 times more talented that the Stones. When re-reading the whole affair the word shameless rip off springs to mind.
mjgroot 2 years ago
I agree with you because The Stones were jealous that Bittersweet Symphony was 10 times better than The Last Time ever was.
AmericanPopCulture1 2 years ago 3
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Lol I think The Verve are jealous the Stones are 100 times bigger than they are. However, The Verves use of this is great.
haleyfamily1975 2 years ago
This was released years before BS...
Pracaloid 2 years ago
BSS is a good song. but the more I listen to this, the more I like this version better. at first I didn't like this one but now I love it. this has more of a majestic, epic tone to it.
i was thinking of this as I walked on stage for my college graduation. this song would go good as the soundtrack for achievement.
sasquatchhunter86 2 years ago 2
I wonder what all the children of the Rolling Stones think of this song and of "Bittersweet Symphony"? I'm naming names such as Marlon Richards, Jade Jagger, Angela Richards, Lizzie Jagger, Theodora Richards and Alexandra Richards. Note it was Angela who wisecracked about the Stones' 1997 song "Anybody Seen My Baby" sounding like k.d. lang's "Constant Craving."
ClassicTVMan81 2 years ago
The Stones gave credit to Lang before they even released "Baby"; The Verve lifted this sample without permission. Big difference.
steveconn 2 years ago
The Verve did ask for permission over the "Last Time" sample at first, but the courts decided after the song's success that the band used more of the sample than what was called for.
ClassicTVMan81 2 years ago
Actually there was never a court case, The Verve gave up the royalties willingly in order to release the song in the first place. It was explained on an XFM documentary back in 2007.
mhoverthere 2 years ago
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TiJayEve 2 years ago
Nope..The Verve sampled it with PERMISSION no doubt abut it search on wikipedia about the song.However it is true that bittersweet symphony would even exist if not for the rolling stone and i really dont think that the rolling stone last time is even more sweeter the verve bittersweet symphony
Soulcarvers 2 years ago 4