War on Terror and Goldstone Report by Prof. Moshe Arens, November 2009, London

[prittwitz1]

Spitzenklasse Sprache!

[ofri75]

Professor Arens is one of the wisest Israeli politicians and people. He was born in Lithuania, immigrated as a kid with his family to the USA as a teen, served in the US army, studied studied engineering at MIT and and aeronautical engineering at the California Institute of Technology, Made Aliya to Israel, served in the "Irgun", worked as a Professor for aeronautics at the Technion institution, was the Israeli embassador in Washingron, and the Israeli foreign minister and defense minister.

[TheNewsCriticOnline]

After the Goldstone report was completed, they made statements indicating that victims must not only be listened to, but that it would be very cruel to not give credence to their voices.

They did not mention that the voices of the Gaza witnesses were monitored and controlled by Hamas, the terrorist group elected to be their Parliamentarians in Gaza, taking in consideration that much of it was demonstrably false. Either they support Hamas or they get killed, simple as that.

[JewishLeadership]

Great job guys - excellent intro! I know from experience how much work went into this. Keep it up and we would love to work with you. Be in touch. Working together we will succeed to grow our country and defeat our enemies with G-d's help.

[ZionistWorldOrder]

@JewishLeadership

Long live Hamas! You parasitic rats. My generation will make sure the pitiful number of children you make have no future in this world. It's the 19 million kikes the likes of you vs 1,68 billion of me, what DID you think the outcome would be? You are so few we could eradicat you using sexual intercourse alone, the automatic majority against israel my ass, you number 19 million total! How long do you suppose j-date could sustain your inbreeding anyhow?

[rulllar]

Prof Arens makes good points about the situation, the automatic majority against Israel, and the sad reality of the situation.

[hcwcars1]

nuke israel

dirty jews

[bigcree]

Israel is THE Terrorist Rogue Criminal Enterprise.

[rulllar]

Yep. Suicide bombers? Not the real terrorists. Funding islamic revolutionary movements worldwide and subversive groups within other Arab nations? Not the real terrorists. "rivers of blood"? Not the real terrorists. shooting rockets ONLY aimed at cities for 8 years at over 10,000 rockets, then claiming they are only being shot because of a closure that only came 4 years after the rockets began? Not terrorism.

To the psychotic, it's all Israel's fault.

[bigcree]

Your typical response is`nt worthy of mine. Drop the 'Poor Little Israel' Routine. It just shows the World how pathetic you Zionists really are. And that`s a shame.

[rulllar]

*yawn*. Your reponse only showed the hollowness of your case, which was based on just your analysis and no information.

At least I had the decency to mention some of the many facts of the attitude, mentality and actions of the Arab regimes, which shows a clear pattern of thought and behaviour.

Your response: "It's not worthy of a response".

This is what I've come to expect from those who have no ability to discredit anything. Don't worry, you are far from the first to make silly responses.

[7jerryv7]

GS Report in UN General Assembly:

114 for

18 against

44 abstained

Basically, in a world that believes in democracy and the rule of law, a huge majority of nations believe there is enough evidence to investigate this matter further.

The only problem is the UN is not set up in a democratic fashion, so we know what comes next...

[rulllar]

A world that believes in democracy and the rule of law?

How many of the 114 nations are democracies (true democracies)? How many are outright dictatorships? How many are part of the non-aligned states whose votes go hand in hand on any issue of Israel regardless?

If there was true democracy then the world would look very different.

Having nations vote on equal footing, when many are partial or full on dictatorships/theocracies is the same as asking for a fake result.

[7jerryv7]

I agree with most of what you say. However, I think that the recent EU report that accuses Israel of displacing Palestinians from East Jerusalem and illegally settling the area demonstrates Israel's attitude towards Palestinians. The gave the same bullshit response to this report that they did to the Goldstone report. Actually, it was the exact same response.

[rulllar]

That's very different to the Israeli military response to the 10,000 rockets from Gaza.

In Gaza there were no contended lands, no holy links and it came years after 10,000 attacks and a full Israeli withdrawal.

While we can discuss issues of East Jerusalem, remembering that it is THE most contested land in the entire conflict, and reflect on Israeli policy in relation to construction authorizations and demolition of illegal properties, there is very little direct comparison with Gaza response

[7jerryv7]

I think it is important to bring up the Allied bombings of Germany and Japan. This caused the death of millions of civilians. These were war crimes. There is no way around this fact. Even Robert McNamara said that, had the US lost, he and his superiors would have been convicted of war crimes. However, few people ever speak of the bombings of cities during WWII as anything but strategic bombings. So, even when the enemy wears uniforms armies have excused civilian deaths.

[7jerryv7]

Facts - The Goldstone report. Tell me how destroying a chicken farm or sewage plant is valid.

1,166 - 1,417 Palestinians and 13 Israelis were killed. 100:1. Proportional Respone? Kemp can kiss my ass.

READ the Geneva conventions. Isrrael is a signator. This is the whole point.

However, both ISRAELIS and PALESTINIANS violated the conventions

Now, take your biased, pseudo-intellectual bullshit and shove it up your fucking asses. Note how I AM objective regarding both sides.

Shalom

[JewishMessiah]

and how many british civilians were killed by afgans?

0

yet britain still fights in afganistan and killed thousands of civilians there, just to remove the potential of danger to its own civilians by islamic terrorists.

israel on the other hand faced real imminent danger and deliberate attacks against its own civilians by terrorists in gaza. a million israelis were under daily rocket fire from gaza.

so which is more justified in its wars, israel or britain?

(and britain is just 1 example)

[7jerryv7]

I disgree with just about all aspects of the war in Afghanistan. Britain has no right to be in Afghanistan.

Israel had the right to use violence to end the rocket attacks. Nobody disputes this claim. Or at least nobody that has any sense of justice. However, it is the way the Israelis conducted the war, not if it was justified.

[JewishMessiah]

well at least you agree that israel is better than many other countries which did far worse things for far less reasons.

the only reason that it looks like israel used excessive force in gaza is because of the tactics of hamas to deliberately hide behind their own civilians and sacrifice their own population to protect themselves and their military infrustructure.

it's a fact that they've been firing rockets from densly populated places . so it is they who are responsible for the destruction

[JewishMessiah]

it is a real ethical dilemma, i agree.

if someone hides behind his own family, and shoots a weapon at your family, what do you do? do you fire back to save your family, even though you might hit the other family?

if the shooter hides behind them you can't hit him without going through them too. so do you sacrifice the lives of your own family to spare the lives of the shooter's family, and let the shooter continue to do it?

so do you let your family die to protect the family of the shooter?

[JewishMessiah]

and israel did tolerate these rockets for a very long time. but the quantities and range kept increasing. and hamas was getting bigger and better rockets all the time and firing them farther and farther into israel, until a million civilians were hearing the sirens and running to shelters a hundred times a day, every day.

if this happened in your country your people would also be screaming to your government to use whatever force to stop it.

any country would have done the exact same thing

[abbienetvision]

7j,

Let's follow the time line, we are not dealing here with the chicken and the egg. The rockets came in for years, and the war could have easily been prevented, if the UN had bothered to take action to stop the rockets.

The UN could have taken action after the first 1,000 rockets, or after 2,000 rockets. When Israel entered Gaza, it was after 17,000 rockets.

This was after Israel saying to stop a billion times and Hamas refusing to stop and threatening a blood bath of Jews if we entered Gaz

[abbienetvision]

7j,

Actually you are not objective in the least. Israel is a country with an army and uniforms, while Hamas is a suicide organization, bent on destroying Israel and praising death, even of their own.

To compare the Hamas to a regular army who wears uniforms and doesn't fire from civilian areas, is to be unfair, and no at all objective. How do you want Israel to know the Hamas man from the civilian?

This is completely against the Geneva convention and laws of war.

[7jerryv7]

I was looking for intelligent conversation.  Looks like I posted to the wrong video.

Have a nice day.

[7jerryv7]

I am a firm believer in Zion and believe the US should help Israeli defend itself against any form of aggression whatever the cost may be. I am more familiar with the wars Israel has fought than even most Americans or even Israelis. However, nuclear weapons FUNDAMENTALLY changed the dynamic between Israel and its neighbors. However, Israel maintains the same mentality which served it well which is presently problematic. Hence, the findings of the Goldstone report.

[cafeafuh]

"My opinion has always been that Terrorism is to be defeated ONLY by military means."

There is no question in my mind that this is indeed the right strategy to deal with terrorists.

Nations should never negotiate with terrorists.

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile hoping it will eat him last." Winston Churchill

[Kurtlane]

Finally, the truth!

[Belle19700]

A wonderful, and noble man.

[7jerryv7]

The report shows that both sides engaged in attacks against civilians. This speaker does not even know the body that gave Goldstone the power to investigate the war. He also does not know that the report does cover the rocket attacks against Israel. They very clearly investigated the rocket attacks. There was a US Congressman that said the same thing in an interview and was skewered by the reporter that obviously had read the report.

[abbienetvision]

7J,

If the UN were serious about human rights, shouldn't they be investigating why 8 yrs of rocket fire inside Israel, went completely uninvestigated and not even one resolution came out of the constant barrage of rocket?

Only when Israel decided to defend herself, did the UN pay any attention. The UN is a Muslim bullshit group, nothing more.

The human rights in most of the countries of the UN is atrocious, yet they claim Israel is to blame? What a joke the UN is!!

[7jerryv7]

This report included a detailed account of the firing of rockets and asked Palestinian officials to investigate and prosecute the activities.

Further, why is it the case that many of the items are prima facia war crimes, such as attacking a sewage plant? How is that a valid military target? How is that a valid target at all?

[abbienetvision]

7j,

Actually I have read the entire report and you are incorrect. However, you must have misread my comment, which was why did 8 yrs of rocket fire, constantly and consistently, go ignored by the UN.Israel only went into Gaza as the last resort, which if the UN had acted to stop the rockets, would never have happened.

If you look at the Goldstone report, it says that about 17,000 rockets came into Israel. That was not in one month, but 9 years almost.

Why was this not taken up by the UN prior?

[7jerryv7]

I agree that the UN should have taken stronger action regarding the rocket attacks against Israel. However, I believe that neither side has a justification for its actions. The Israelis cannot use the rockets as a justification for attacking civilian targets, which is what they did. Further, the Palestinians cannot use the fact that Israel hit civilian targets as an excuse either. In fact I believe both sides need to be investigated seperately but with knowlege of what the other side did.

[cafeafuh]

7jerryv7,

I have not read the mandate of the commission and neither its report.

What I do know for certain is that several well known judiciary figures (some known to be anti-Israel) turned down an UN invitation to participate in the commission, saying that the mandate was biased against Israel.

They had enough integrity not to cooperate with this farce.

Other than that, watch "Disfigured Terror Victim Confronts Goldstone in U.N. Debate"

watch?v=hqyB04klExU&feature=sd­ig&et=1257482590.6

[7jerryv7]

You ought to read the report, too, and ask why the Israeli government chose not to respond to any of the facts.

[cafeafuh]

7jerryv7,

I do not need to read the report to know who the GOOD guys and who the BAD guys are.

And I am glad our government doesn't find it necessary to excuse or explain our actions to a UN committee.

[7jerryv7]

Yes, we do need to explain our actions. The US Constitution says a treaty becomes the law of the land. The US signed both the UN and Geneva Conventions and must abide by the rules of both organizations/institutions. If we choose to ignore the UN and the Geneva Conventions we are directly violating our laws.

It is clear that there were war crimes on both sides of the battle and if neither side will investiage then international law should be enforced. The US can choose to ignore its own laws

[abbienetvision]

7j,

If we read UN Resolution 242, and understand it, we can see that the land which the UN refers to as "occupied" is not at all occupied. UN242 clearly states to return land, the word "all" was left out on purpose.

The Sinai and Gaza have been returned, so let's stop playing games, and stop calling this land "occupied."

[7jerryv7]

So, you are going to tell me Israel is not expanding settlements into land where it agreed not to settle? You are going to tell me Palestine is a separate nation-state with all privileges? Ever heard of the term foot-dragging?

[abbienetvision]

7j,

Who agreed not to settle on this land, and when? Your ideas are really strange, since Israel has met UNResolution242 terms, and this land is "disputed," if that.

The W.Bank was never a Jordanian property, so how could it be taken from them?

Jordan is 70-80% Palestinians and from 1948-67, Jordan could have created a pali state, was 20 yrs not enough?

The Palis didn't want a state, until after 67, in fact, prior to 67, a Palestinian was a Jew. The old Palestinian Post is now Jerusalem Post.

[7jerryv7]

The major sticking point surrounds Israelis increasing their number of settlements. The Israelis agreed not to settle on the land then they go ahead and do it anyway, and are then condemned by the UN.

This is all pretty basic stuff. I could provide you with more citations than you could read in a year if you want. You need to consume impartial news.

The problem is this is actually against the national interest of Israel. The fact that this elludes many Israelis is the mystery.

[abbienetvision]

7j,

I would love to see when Israel agreed not to settle? Please show me.

Palestine is a nation? Or even was? Really...what currency did they use and what was the national anthem, or even the exchange rate at any point in history?

When did the become independent,and from whom?

Since you left out where you are living or anything about yourself on your channel, I don't know where or what you are learning or learnt.

You clearly are not a Zionist, since you care more about those that kill us than

[7jerryv7]

Actually, I used the term too losely and meant I support Israel's right to exist and establishment of Jewish roots. However, since the definition would require being a member of the orgnaization I was wrong to use the term so loosely. My appologies on that.

I do believe that Jews and Palestinians will never live in harmony. There should be an Israel, a Palestine, they should both be independent nation-states. Therefore, when an attack occurs, Palestine or Israel would be held accountable.

[abbienetvision]

7j,

Your lies are apparent. I looked at your channel and noticed that you are a terrorist, Muslim supporter. All terrorist mindset Muslims I block and your friends are my blocks.

You clearly believe in the koran. So stop trying to claim otherwise.

Still waiting to see something on "The Israelis agreed not to settle on the land then they go ahead and do it anyway"

Since you buy pali propaganda and spread the lies, you are as guilty as those committing atrocities: Muslims.

[7jerryv7]

Wow, your a freak.

[7jerryv7]

Thank you for showing your true colors. I am an Atheist, you tit. Plus I am an American. So Israelis and Palestinians look like children fighting in a sandbox. Each side says he started it. Neither side will act like adults.

I hope that Israel and Palestinian leaders, SOMEDAY, live up to their promises. I will not hold my breath.

[abbienetvision]

7j,

Do you think I do not know the smell of shit? You are a Muslim, no atheist would have your friends, who are radicals.

As Obama is a xtain, you are a atheist.

You cannot fool anyone, you stinking raghead, so please don't try.

[7jerryv7]

Wow, a Jewish Nazi. That would make you like...Hitler.

[abbienetvision]

7,

You posted your lies time and time again here. When I requested proof, you cannot provide any, since it is all from your mind, no basis on facts or news.

How could anyone have an intelligent conversation with you, when you have no knowledge? Give me a person that is not Muslim and believes in death to infidels or taqiyya and I will debate him.

You can go back to your cave and play with your sister though.

[7jerryv7]

Yep, you have demonstrated you are no better than a Nazi. Can you imagine that your behavior puts you in the category of a Nazi? How does that make you look?

[abbienetvision]

7j,

You want everyone in the world to abide by the UN, right?

Please explain,if you know,why did Israel have a war the day after the UN declared her a state, in 1967, in 1973?Every war was brought on by Arab aggression, and Gaza was after 8 YEARS OF ROCKET FIRE, THE REPORT SAYS 9 YEARS! 9 YEARS OF ROCKETS, day in and day out. Rockets that are not accurate and can only be used in terrorism.

WHY WAS 9 YEARS OF ROCKET FIRE IGNORED BY THE UN?

What would your govt do if rockets came from a neighbor?

[7jerryv7]

First, the situation has changed dramatically. Israel has 200-300 tactical nuclear warheads. I think this might persuade second thoughts when it comes to aggression.

Yeah, the Palestinians did this, the Israelis did that, then the Palestinians did that, and the Israelis did this, etc. The only way to end this cycle is to hold both side accountable for illegal behavior.

Nobody says Israel cannot defend itself. In fact the UN Charter allows it. So what is the issue?

[abbienetvision]

7j,

You are very lazy to follow news and international news, or so it seems. Actually Israel is going to respond to the Goldstone Report, which has anything but facts, like you seem to think. Israel has said that since the report came out!

Please try to read news or watch it!

[7jerryv7]

Rather sophomoric tactic for debate.

There are plenty of letters at the end of the Goldstone report demonstrating that Israel refused to be involved in the investigation. Their excuse was they thought it was going to be a biased report. Israel therefore tipped its hat early.

Israel has failed to demonstrate that any fact in the report is erroneous. Therefore, they have failed to show the bias.

Goldstone is a Zionist. I believe he is acting in the interest of Israel. And the US.

[JewishMessiah]

do you really think hamas will "investigate" itself??

do you really think they'd change their tactic of deliberately targeting civilians?

it comes down to this: israel had no choice but to stop the attack against its own civilians using whatever means necessary.

when faced with an enemy determined to destroy you, and having no option to negotiate a peace, a nation has the right to do anything it can in order to survive.

just like during WW2 the allies used whatever means they could

[7jerryv7]

"using whatever means necessary" - so you agree that they can directly attack civilian targets against the Geneva Conventions? Why not then withdrawal from the treaty?

"just like during WW2 the allies used whatever means they could" - McNamara said that he and other US engineers of the bombings of Japanese cities knew that they had committed war crimes and were not prosecuted because the US won. McNamara's own words.

What in fact we have are war ciminals on both sides.

[cafeafuh]

7jerryv7,

I believe that the Geneva Conventions, or whatever laws govern the conduct of armies, should be significantly redone to include war against terrorism.

War against terrorists is nothing like a conventional war on battlefields, which was how wars were fought when most of those laws were written.

In any case, in our army we do prosecute criminal conduct by our soldiers, in spite of having so far won all wars.

[7jerryv7]

Not at all. Rewriting the laws would not allow Israel, for instance, to bomb a sewage plant. Both sides need to follow the basic laws that govern civlized behavior.

[cafeafuh]

Sewage plant? Probably a mistake, and if not, perhaps intended for Gazans to eat shit for supporting terrorism against us? Nasrallah said he would not have kidnapped soldiers had he known Israel's response - damage to Lebanese infrastructure

Present laws do not differentiate between aggressor and defender, and that is a major moral flaw that needs to be fixed

In any the case, I rather be alive and considered a war criminal, than be dead, and praised as a saint for following inadequate war laws

[7jerryv7]

If you believe in God then you can imagine where war criminals end up...

Note that the term CRIMINAL is used.

[cafeafuh]

I dont believe in a God, but you will be glad to know that Muslims do.

Muslims are dead certain that by killing Jews, Allah allows them free entrance to heaven.

I, on the other hand, certainly can't be a "criminal" since I believe in the "Live and Let Live" principle.

If Gazans don't shoot rockets on us, killing and terrorizing our population, they live in Peace, and so do we.

But if they do shoot rockets, their asses are mine to kick till Kingdom come.

Is that religious enough for you?

[7jerryv7]

No, it is psychotic. You also fail to seperate the responsible parties from the innocent. In other words, if any individuals attacks us, we have the right to attack anyone from that group, even if they are innocent.

This is the whole point behind the Geneva Concentions. Israeli and Palestinian combatants must follow the rules of engagement. Otherwise they should reject the convetions and withdrawl from the treaty.

Of course, Palestine cannot since it is not a country.

[cafeafuh]

I will be able to separate the responsible parties from the innocent when the terrorists start wearing black hats and the innocent white hats.

Come to think of it, this should be inserted into the Geneva Conventions you are so concerned with.

As long as this is not the case, and as long as terrorists intentionally mingle with civilians, I have only two options:

I either kick ass or I accept living under the terror of rocket attacks.

I wonder which option you would choose.

[7jerryv7]

I choose what the US military is choosing in Afghanistan. You do not bomb areas with civilians to kill the enemy. You send you troops in with guns and you shoot them. You accept the higher casuality rate but you also choose to fight like men.

That would be my option. Cowards kill civilians. That is you option.

[cafeafuh]

Israel is not the US. There are 6 m Jews here, not over 300 m Americans. And Gazans are firing on our cities, not on NY.

The IDF doesn't need examples to "fight like men". It could have wiped out Gaza on day 1, but still sacrificed our soldiers to minimize Gazan civilian casualties

Call me a coward, but I say that no Israeli soldier's life is worth sacrificing to save the lives of those scumbags.

Hamas is responsible for the lives of the Gazans. We are responsible for our own.

Take care, bye

[7jerryv7]

Talk to the Goldstone Report.

[cafeafuh]

Talk to the Goldstone report?

I ask that you watch the following, if you have the chance:

"Response to Goldstone: Israel Fought a War of Self-Defense"

watch?v=9Cdonz56Thw

"The UN Blood Libel: The Goldstone Report at the UN Human Rights Council"

watch?v=3kDlF2fc0wg

"Goldstone Gaza Report: Col. Richard Kemp Testifies at U.N. Emergency Session"

watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo&feature=em­ail

"Disfigured Terror Victim Confronts Goldstone in U.N. Debate"

watch?v=hqyB04klExU&feature=sd­ig&et=1257482590.6

[7jerryv7]

I watched the videos. Regarding Kemp what the fuck is he talking about regarding human shields? The Israelis admitted to using human shields. Please. Nice meme with no facts.

How does Kemp's speech mesh with the 100:1 ratio death toll of Palestinians to Israelis during the war? Just how does htis add up?

In Iraq, for instance, the ratio is 25:1. How does Israel try SOOOO hard to avoid civilian casualities but kill so many civilans?

Facts man. These videos are groundless.

[cafeafuh]

You are something else.

Kemp, an experienced professional soldier and not a politician, doesn't know what he is taking about, but you do? LOL.

You say 100:1 and I ask why not 1000:1. Perhaps we should execute a few soldiers for the ratio to fit your expectations?

Seems to me that as Goldstone's verdict was out there before the committee even began its investigation, so was yours.

Bye, and don't bother me again.

[7jerryv7]

I will not bother you with facts again. Go live in your own little world.

[abbienetvision]

7j,

Coward kill civilians? Is that your remark?

Do you mean like the many Fatah followers killed in Gaza or Al-Dura, the Gaza Beach Massacre, the booby trapping of zoos and schools by Hamas to cause maximum civilian deaths?

Or maybe you mean the babies with suicide belts, the three year old kids calling for death to Israel, the kids shows provoking them to kill rather than live, Etc.

Every heard of Black September, most deadly day for palis in history, by Jordan? Not a peep from the news.

[7jerryv7]

Yes, cowards kill civilians. That is the short version. The long version is that militaries are required to minimize civilian casualties. Both Palestinians and Israelis used human shields. That is cowardly.

I am not saying the Palestinians are the good guys here. I do not believe in simplifying. I am saying that both sides engaged in war crimes and crimes against humanity. No, this does not make me popular. It does make me right.

[abbienetvision]

7j,

IDF may have used civilians, which is wrong,but you will only find this act one or two times, while the Hamas has been doing this since its inception and brags about it loudly.

Using human shields is, a tactic of hamas, in their words.

IDF is the most moral army in the world, and no army would have taken so much care in not killing or hitting civilians, as Israel did, that is the fact!

[7jerryv7]

100:1 civilian to IDF soldier kill ratio. The facts do not mesh with this statement.

[abbienetvision]

7j,

Gaza civilians and terrorist dress the same, the use houses and mosques to store rockets and guns,and suicide bomber outfits.

Summer camp in gaza is terrorist training, even for 5 yr old kids.

Kids in Gaza are taught that killing Jews, is better than anything.

The gaza people, in their own words admit that they desire death, over life.

The ratio is irrelevant, since the only reason that more Israelis are not dead, is due to the shelters, alarms and other safeguarding tactics in Israel.

[7jerryv7]

If they choose not to investigate themselves then the UN can do it for them.

[JewishMessiah]

the UN to investigate the war crimes of Hamas?

why did they wait and not do it when Israel was bombarded by rockets on a daily basis for years? or when Hamas was brainwashing palestinian children and sending them as suicide bombers to blow themselves up and kill israeli children?

why didn't the UN ever investigate any of that?

their entire focus is only to investigate israel's actions, while ignoring many other wars in the world with much higher death tolls. (sudan, yemen, pakistan, chechnya)

[7jerryv7]

So the fact that the UN mandate for this report did not include sudan, yemen, pakistan, chechnya, iraq, afghanistan, etc. means that it is not valid? That is a horrible argument.

If we really wanted to go back and look at behavior we could look at the crimes against humanity committed by Israel in its countless actions against Lebanon, for example. One instance left 20,000 dead. Once bombing against people leaving a Mosque, designed to assassinate one individual, killed bout 150. And on...

[JewishMessiah]

the fact that the UN only focuses on israel (and completely ignores all the other conflicts in the world which have a much higher civilian death rate) Proves that they are biased against israel. that means that their reports against israel are also biased.

they get their 'evidence' only from the verbal testimonies of hamas spokesmen.

what you said about the figures is completely untrue. the real ratio is about 1 civilian for every 4 armed terrorists. compare that to usa and britain's numbers

[7jerryv7]

No, there were about, what 10 Isralis soldiers killed in that war but 1,300 Palestinians? Learn math.

This is CIVILIAN to SOLDIER ratio.

Most modern guerilla wars have 25:1 - civilian to soldier. This includes US-Vietnam, USSR-Afghanistan, etc.

Given the ratio this war was something else...