Natural Dog Training Quantum Canine No Such Thing as Dominance Part 2

[SeeleyL]

I agree. the GSD is insecure and on the defensive, so she can NOT be a leader. she is following the lab. the puppy like behavior is to reassure the insecure dog that"everything is ok follow me and my confidence" Dogs do not follow anyone or anything that is insecure. confidence is the key. whoever makes the other one move is the leader. whether its the lab getting her 2follow, or the wolf making the pray move. its the one that makes the other one move. its black and white there is no gray.

[quantumcanine]

@SeeleyL That's interesting reasoning. If there's no gray as you say, then how can the one showing "submission" be the leader? If there was a bone being contested between the two of them, which one do you predict will get to keep it?

[bewarethewolf]

I hate when "professionals" provide misinformation. If an omega wolf snarled at an Alpha trying to claim something the omega has, the Alpha considers it a challenge and will assert his dominance. I have seen it happen in person at a wolf center. Also, "The Alpha wants everything first." is ridiculous. There is a great deal of control in wolf life. Alpha pairs control breeding, feeding, and hunting.

[bewarethewolf]

Wow, this guy is oblivious. That lab licking the German Shepherd isn't "paralyzing" the dog. The lab IS showing submission and appeasement by licking at the muzzle. It drives me crazy that any clueless person can hop infront of a camera and spew this crap. This man knows NOTHING about canine behaviour. Acting "prey-like" it not a canine behaviour. If another animal acts "prey-like" to a PREDATOR, the predator would react as a predator! Predators are not paralyzed when faced with prey.

[bewarethewolf]

The prey controls the predator? Where is the logic in that? There is no relationship of control between predator and prey. It is about survival, and a battle for it. Any intelligent person can recognize that. That was so painful to watch. I really despise people who come to their own conclusions and preach it like it's the truth. Do as all a favour, Kevin, spend some time a wolf center and figure it the hell out.

[quantumcanine]

@bewarethewolf My study of dogs rejected the dominance paradigm decades before mainstream wolf researchers retreated from the concept, which they now have. A simple principle is that the object of attraction controls that which is attracted to it, IF it can sense its leverage. Therefore the prey controls the predator WHEN it senses its leverage and one can study cat to dog interactions to see this principle made plain.

[quantumcanine]

@bewarethewolf When any two dogs play, one acts as predator, the other acts like prey, and they flip roles vigorously the safer they feel. Playing provides the easiest way for one to see the principle even though in more subtle fashion it is always the template organizing animal behavior.

[quantumcanine]

@bewarethewolf If an "omega" but once keeps its possession from an "Alpha," (not to mention the great majority of times) then there is no such thing as a dominance hierarchy and therefore there is a need for another model that can consistently explain ALL social interactions between canines.

[PrometheansFire]

I suggest you learn about atomic theory before making such gross errors. Nothing you said was correct.

[PrometheansFire]

Magical thinking is magical thinking... and that's what you are doing

[quantumcanine]

I don't subscribe to The Secret. I believe in the power of the "negative."

[quantumcanine]

RIght, this is energy, you're assuming that it is otherwise inert, that the dog doesn't feel these affects and then that this doesn't have an emotional affect.

[PrometheansFire]

The Secret is not energy, is is a book sold to foolish people who believe in magical thinking.

[PrometheansFire]

That is blatantly false; energy doesn't work according to attraction.

You are thinking of The Secret.

Dogs are animated by the conversion of ATP to ADP

[quantumcanine]

I didn't say it did. Energy "works" according to a function of attraction. The energy that animates dogs also works as a function of attraction.

[PrometheansFire]

And neither phenomena has anything to do with dogs.

Curved space is not a displaceable medium

[quantumcanine]

Exactly, a displacable medium that renders a virtual force of attraction we call gravity. It isn't neutral and it isn't a "force" of repulsion.

[quantumcanine]

Okay, then what is a magnetic or gravitational "force"?

[PrometheansFire]

Gravity is the curvature of spacetime

[quantumcanine]

What then do you call metal leaping to magnet, mass drawn to mass, electricity running to ground, electrons holding to valence levels, atoms forming molecules, molecules to compounds, paired photons changing in sync, water seeking its level, planets in orbit, weak and strong nuclear forces, dog howling at moon?

[PrometheansFire]

You continue with the ridiculous questions and absurd comparisons.

[quantumcanine]

Energy is not constrained by form. It can move freely between form. I have not said it is one way, it is a network wide form of communication. I have read Dawkins. He is in error.

[PrometheansFire]

I was referring to Mariam not Richard.

What you've written is wrong and ignores all we know about physics. Energy does not work on attraction - I've yet to meet a physicists who wouldn't laugh at that statement.

[bseanvt]

Atoms are held together by negative electrons 'attracted' to positive nucleus. A lot of 'energy' is held within an atom. It seems that energy is intimately linked with 'attraction'.

Is your problem with the theory really about semantics?

[PrometheansFire]

BEHAVIOR....not energy.

BTW biologist have reassessed how they look at communication. No longer is it seen as one way the way you suggest. Evolution works on the animal giving out the signals but also on the one receiving it. ... read Dawkins.