I hate that Protoss can just bulldog Terran and sacrifice units as long as they keep Terran back. Everyone yaps about how tough PvT is but it's harder for T in my opinion.
Also... fuck arbiters. Mass Transport + AoE cloak + AoE Lockdown.
Yes, I know it's "balanced" but only when you've got a T who is balls-out good and you're playing top-level SC.
As a Terran, I'll have to agree, somewhat, but I am not a high level player at all. If I roll out without soft-pushing (depots and turrets to wall off/stop bulldogs, and mine properly) then I get rolled. If I turtle, P can mass expo.
Don't base your assumptions on 1 game. Terran has been the stronger race for a very long time now (since the boxer era basically). Flash just had a horrible game. He did no sort of harass. And toss can sacrifice units? wtf? Stork had at LEAST 8 expansions to flashes 4-ish, and flashes werent running half the time. usually u wouldnt that kind of massive economic advantage, and could NOt just sacrifice units.
btw what race CAN'T sacrifice units when they have at least 5 more expansions?
I've played SC for over 10 years, at a fairly high level, no word of a lie.
I'm talking sacrificing units for the sole purpose of stalling a push - early game, that's what gets most mid/low level Toss players that massive economic advantage.
If you read my previous post, that was really where my comments were aimed: "Lower/Mid" level play.
Again, I don't care - I don't play T; but every P player wants people to think P is harder than it really is.
The only reason he was able to sacrifice so many units to stall Flash's expo was because he had a ridiculous amount of expansions. that really shouldn't happen, and most of the time you will see terran laying spider mines everywhere to slow down the toss and combat zealots. Flash didnt do that because he was behind in both unit production and economy early on. Sacrificing that units in a game where the expos are even would get you butchered
"Lower/Mid" level play - it happens all the time. P can easily STALL a push to mass expand by hitting that wall, pulling back, and repeating. Sacrifice units doesn't mean lose every unit you have - just some.
Again...
Not saying that's the case HERE - I replied to another post about what happens in MANY "Lower/Mid" level TvPs.
Again...
My other posts make it pretty clear that I'm talking about Lower/Mid level SC, where P is widely regarded as the easiest race to play.
True, but it would depend on build order. I mean if a terran gets 2 factories early and doesn't get to do much with a push he's in trouble but against a player that likes to take expos early I either vulture harass or expand myself.
and yea, it comes down to opinion i guess. I've always regarded Terran as the easiet to play (which is why I play them) because of siege tanks and vulture micro.
I play protoss but honestly, I felt bad for Flash. He choosed the worst strat ever for TvP. At least for this map. This T strat allows protoss to expand the whole map, to build countless gateways, 3 forges, 2 cores, mass carriers, mass arbiters, anyway, whatever he want. It was so easy for Stork to win as it would be to almost any protoss progamer.
Haha no. Any other protoss wouldn't have been able to apply constant pressure to Flash on all fronts keeping him locked in his base. Stork did play amazingly but if it were a lesser P player at all Flash would've been able to get out of his base and rape face.
If you allowing Stork to sit back and macro - you're pretty much owned. Also I think Flash has some soft spot against Stork (he lost last 3 games - 2 in Proleague and 1 in commercial event). Anyway - I'm glad that Stork is yet again rising up.
Well I honestly don't see what flash could do. The expansions are so hard to hold without dropships, and in TvP, you don't really have the resources allowable to mass up a decent number of dropships. The waythe expansions are laid out makes it impossible to defend them with the normal move your gigantic terran army around the map.
Lockdown is not better, it's 10 times harder to control ghosts and they move extremely slowly. Arbiters will get stasis off EVERY time vs ghosts while vessels can EMP multiple arbiters regardless of ground terrain. Vessels can also defense matrix which is far better than anything the ghost has to offer.
jangbi was 70 but now its back to 68 or so, only slightly higher (0.5%) than stork, and stork has played twice as many PvTs so I rate his record as better - not to take anything away from Jangbi though, he's a beast
Flash probably choose this strat as he is aware of stork's both macro and micro in pvt. In terms of game IQ i think Stork is best in the scene. He always knew about enemy movements without much scouting, the only thing he did not have is hand speed and technique like JD and Bisu.
Flash played very well I am surprised that he last that long Everybody expects Stork to kill his opponent in first 20 minutes but Flash last for 30 minutes This is just great. I expect more great games from Flash. He is incredible player.
Flash was sloppy as hell. He lost an early marine and scv for no reason. He lost early tanks that he shouldn't have lost. And he never made an offensive move except for pressuring a Nexus at a mineral patch that he wanted. His scouting SCV was the only unit that ever saw Stork's main or any base except the 3 o'clock. He needed vulture harass to counter the mass nexus but was content to play Sim City instead of Starcraft.
Flash lost 2 early tanks when he only had about 4, that's crucial because that deficit can compound if Stork takes advantage of it and he did in this game; he was constantly keeping the tank count down. Losing an early SCV marine and 2 tanks put Flash on his heels for the rest of the game. I thought he might be able to use his 4 dropships for offense but he had to use them to defend all game except for dropping on a cliff, which wasn't terribly effective.
I think Flash had more CC's than Factories)))))
one4aJIb 1 month ago
Comment removed
delta5297 6 months ago
The quality of this game is unbelievable
ljsung1232 8 months ago
this guys dont build army they just expand...wtf! NOOBS! :))))) JUST JOKING
skrivas 1 year ago
At least Flash gives his all and plays till the end.
bunch of other progamers just quit if they lose one battle D=
Good game by both players
digimon969 1 year ago
oh, god, what a match !
pascalirinel 1 year ago
flash machine jaedong monster stork i have now idea
mar1anmar18 1 year ago
"S"omeone is the master of brute force!
Mt7juans 1 year ago
Gundam Coordinators.
leesunwoo 1 year ago
GODZILLA, GODZILLA
JpRules123 1 year ago
@ 8:43 what the FUCK?!
EskaeDaStreetGeek 1 year ago
METALLICA! ;D
And i enjoyed watching protoss getting the edge in this battle.
123TauruZ321 2 years ago
thath was the best PvT I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!
terran500 2 years ago
umm regarding strongest race, its not whats the strongest race its how u use them .
coolerzzzzz 2 years ago
I'm sure this'll get flamed but...
I hate that Protoss can just bulldog Terran and sacrifice units as long as they keep Terran back. Everyone yaps about how tough PvT is but it's harder for T in my opinion.
Also... fuck arbiters. Mass Transport + AoE cloak + AoE Lockdown.
Yes, I know it's "balanced" but only when you've got a T who is balls-out good and you're playing top-level SC.
Lower/Mid and Toss is lolexpandattackmovelol
(P.S. before the flames... I don't play T)
Virility 2 years ago
I was going to flame ya but since no thumbs down there is no point. T had stood as the strongest race for bet 2000~2008 for 9 years.
don't have right to say such thing.
phantomkang 2 years ago
I've heard different things regarding "strongest race" and I think there's some disagreement there.
I don't play T, so I'm not just whining. It doesn't really impact me because I don't deal with this match up.
I should emphasize that my comment is really directed to mid/low level SC. T is much harder for players at that level than P is.
Virility 2 years ago 2
@virility
Word!
Youlijp 2 years ago 2
As a Terran, I'll have to agree, somewhat, but I am not a high level player at all. If I roll out without soft-pushing (depots and turrets to wall off/stop bulldogs, and mine properly) then I get rolled. If I turtle, P can mass expo.
Vults are easy to stop with a few cannons.
~_~
TheSecretAzNMan 2 years ago
Don't base your assumptions on 1 game. Terran has been the stronger race for a very long time now (since the boxer era basically). Flash just had a horrible game. He did no sort of harass. And toss can sacrifice units? wtf? Stork had at LEAST 8 expansions to flashes 4-ish, and flashes werent running half the time. usually u wouldnt that kind of massive economic advantage, and could NOt just sacrifice units.
btw what race CAN'T sacrifice units when they have at least 5 more expansions?
Atm0sphere33 2 years ago
I'm not basing my comments off one game.
I've played SC for over 10 years, at a fairly high level, no word of a lie.
I'm talking sacrificing units for the sole purpose of stalling a push - early game, that's what gets most mid/low level Toss players that massive economic advantage.
If you read my previous post, that was really where my comments were aimed: "Lower/Mid" level play.
Again, I don't care - I don't play T; but every P player wants people to think P is harder than it really is.
Virility 2 years ago
The only reason he was able to sacrifice so many units to stall Flash's expo was because he had a ridiculous amount of expansions. that really shouldn't happen, and most of the time you will see terran laying spider mines everywhere to slow down the toss and combat zealots. Flash didnt do that because he was behind in both unit production and economy early on. Sacrificing that units in a game where the expos are even would get you butchered
Atm0sphere33 2 years ago
Again...
"Lower/Mid" level play - it happens all the time. P can easily STALL a push to mass expand by hitting that wall, pulling back, and repeating. Sacrifice units doesn't mean lose every unit you have - just some.
Again...
Not saying that's the case HERE - I replied to another post about what happens in MANY "Lower/Mid" level TvPs.
Again...
My other posts make it pretty clear that I'm talking about Lower/Mid level SC, where P is widely regarded as the easiest race to play.
Virility 2 years ago
True, but it would depend on build order. I mean if a terran gets 2 factories early and doesn't get to do much with a push he's in trouble but against a player that likes to take expos early I either vulture harass or expand myself.
and yea, it comes down to opinion i guess. I've always regarded Terran as the easiet to play (which is why I play them) because of siege tanks and vulture micro.
Atm0sphere33 2 years ago
@Virility i agree
ultraudv 1 year ago
i love the KTF mascot, so adorable
CaptainWaffles 2 years ago
bisu, jangbi, stork only protoss could mess with flash. i think bisu is the best among all
seventata 2 years ago 4
2500 minerla for Flash at 13 minutes? WTF?
BiffTheUnderstudy 2 years ago 4
Mit aller kraft!!
stupid but certanly suitable for this event :]
Dremain 2 years ago
pues ya ves, parece ke no soy el unico al ke le sube la presion cuando juega starcraft, hehehhe joder, deverian prohibir este juego a los cardiacos!
como sudaba heheheh estava ke iva a explotar, no digo yo con stork en la otra parte kien no explota. gg!
22rember 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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Mrann1990 2 years ago
rape : /
Mom3ntumm 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Search "Happy Rob Buy" by google ,and you will find amazing.
Mrann1990 2 years ago
Bork powaaaaah
NukeTheStars 2 years ago
I play protoss but honestly, I felt bad for Flash. He choosed the worst strat ever for TvP. At least for this map. This T strat allows protoss to expand the whole map, to build countless gateways, 3 forges, 2 cores, mass carriers, mass arbiters, anyway, whatever he want. It was so easy for Stork to win as it would be to almost any protoss progamer.
vinijdc 2 years ago
u know this is Flash style.
I will do what i want to do, u do what u want to do. Win against my 200 3/3upgraded mechnic if u can.
kmynsb 2 years ago
Haha no. Any other protoss wouldn't have been able to apply constant pressure to Flash on all fronts keeping him locked in his base. Stork did play amazingly but if it were a lesser P player at all Flash would've been able to get out of his base and rape face.
twinesper 2 years ago
If you allowing Stork to sit back and macro - you're pretty much owned. Also I think Flash has some soft spot against Stork (he lost last 3 games - 2 in Proleague and 1 in commercial event). Anyway - I'm glad that Stork is yet again rising up.
JeeHost 2 years ago 2
stork ezzzzz
TrainHardGoPro 2 years ago
Well I honestly don't see what flash could do. The expansions are so hard to hold without dropships, and in TvP, you don't really have the resources allowable to mass up a decent number of dropships. The waythe expansions are laid out makes it impossible to defend them with the normal move your gigantic terran army around the map.
AlcovyCrossing 2 years ago 3
Vulture harass with 2-4 vults on the undefended nexus's is pretty much the only other thing flash could've done.
But he really did play great even if he lost.
twinesper 2 years ago
recall at 14:55 decided the game ;3
jhyunahn 2 years ago 2
Flash overheated, he is a machine after all.
regnarog2 2 years ago 14
Why do terran insist on teching sci vess to counter arbiter when lockdown is so much better?
luminos 2 years ago
Lockdown is not better, it's 10 times harder to control ghosts and they move extremely slowly. Arbiters will get stasis off EVERY time vs ghosts while vessels can EMP multiple arbiters regardless of ground terrain. Vessels can also defense matrix which is far better than anything the ghost has to offer.
Rekmackan 2 years ago 2
Unless those ghosts happen to be Boxer's
=P
twinesper 2 years ago 3
EMP can drain the psi shields from a bunch of zealots and dragoons, as well as deplete the energy of multiple Arbiters if they're bunched up.
Taznak 2 years ago
Not to mention that they give sight.
LGICECREAM 2 years ago
was Stork's start mass Nexus?
lacisk8er 2 years ago 3
It's a pretty strong counter to mass CC ;D
flabbikins 2 years ago 10
Wow awesome :O
Even if he is my fav player, i thought the younger with higher apm would prevail.
Pretty much sauron protoss ftw xD
cagatenen 2 years ago
Stork and Flash have pretty similiar apms.
mog87 2 years ago
stork's apm is around 230-260 - flash is
340-360
MetalCharly666 2 years ago
you're right
DiegoTube85 2 years ago
wrong, stork has a lot less
FieryBalrog 2 years ago
Flash came up decent build up but also made few mistakes which led stork won.. both player did really well, great game lol
bowlnoodle123 2 years ago
Look at that multi-task.
July927 2 years ago
If only Bisu learned PvT from Stork, Bisu would be the best in all three matchups PvP PvZ PvT
Stork's PvT is probably the best nowadays
I feel sorry for Flash, he was sweating and getting dominated. He did a very very good job holding Stork back though
okay21088 2 years ago 3
Statistically, Jangbi has the best PvT record. I think he's the only Protoss over 70% in that matchup, or at least he was a couple weeks ago.
flabbikins 2 years ago 3
jangbi was 70 but now its back to 68 or so, only slightly higher (0.5%) than stork, and stork has played twice as many PvTs so I rate his record as better - not to take anything away from Jangbi though, he's a beast
structuralinertia 2 years ago
Stork is the best pvt-er in the history of Sc. No doubt.
DiegoTube85 2 years ago 3
4:16 HOLY LIP GLOSS BATMAN!
spoiler
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turtle terran got dominated
Spanxxx 2 years ago
Flash probably choose this strat as he is aware of stork's both macro and micro in pvt. In terms of game IQ i think Stork is best in the scene. He always knew about enemy movements without much scouting, the only thing he did not have is hand speed and technique like JD and Bisu.
Baddieko 2 years ago 2
The winner won from the first recall.
Glioburd 2 years ago
WOW, that was brilliant play by Stork
Imbalancja 2 years ago 2
Flash overextended himself. standard 3-4 base into 3-3 upgrades failed as Stork did expect that and expanded multiple times.
early arbiters in this game made the difference.
somethingagainstu 2 years ago
there it is!!! Stork dominating again!
It's good to see him win like this after remembering all those second places in the OSL/GOM classic s1 finals...
arpadkecskes 2 years ago 4
Flash played very well I am surprised that he last that long Everybody expects Stork to kill his opponent in first 20 minutes but Flash last for 30 minutes This is just great. I expect more great games from Flash. He is incredible player.
Glibberg 2 years ago
Flash was sloppy as hell. He lost an early marine and scv for no reason. He lost early tanks that he shouldn't have lost. And he never made an offensive move except for pressuring a Nexus at a mineral patch that he wanted. His scouting SCV was the only unit that ever saw Stork's main or any base except the 3 o'clock. He needed vulture harass to counter the mass nexus but was content to play Sim City instead of Starcraft.
SnowflakePillow 2 years ago 4
Yes, agree, no vulture harass at all!
zahariy 2 years ago
kind of a simplified way of looking at things....to say the least...
jjay75 2 years ago
Flash lost 2 early tanks when he only had about 4, that's crucial because that deficit can compound if Stork takes advantage of it and he did in this game; he was constantly keeping the tank count down. Losing an early SCV marine and 2 tanks put Flash on his heels for the rest of the game. I thought he might be able to use his 4 dropships for offense but he had to use them to defend all game except for dropping on a cliff, which wasn't terribly effective.
SnowflakePillow 2 years ago
that was doomed to fail
elroi92 2 years ago
Clash of the Titans!!
Swarms89 2 years ago
Great Match
hang319han 2 years ago
spoiler
flash has played in toss' s favorite way. i do not know why.
cali3402 2 years ago
Map inbalance toward. The race with greater mobility will win on this map.
tomlovizar 2 years ago
24:06
"Hmm, this is interesting..."
phard9 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
first ;]
Parfien 2 years ago