Anglicans at our best. I was a roman catholic, but I left for the Episcopal Church 15 years ago. I do wish there was intercommunion between the churches. We both have apostolic succession. But the rcc will never accept us. Oh well God loves us all equally.
Brothers and Sisters! The time for the Lord's coming draws near! It is time to put aside all human divisions and Worship together His Holy Name. The Holy Father is being led by the Holy Spirit as is the Archbishop of Canterbury to find 'Common Ground.' We are One in the Lord despite our weakness of Understanding, or inadquacy of Love, our failure to set aside pride and prejudice. ")Come Holy Spirit" and make Jesus prayer in John 17 a reality among us before You visibly come again. Amen!
Its nice to see the Pope chumming it up with the Anglcans." Cant we all just get along...? " To quote that infamous Negro criminal in L.A. Remember what King Narsise always said..."Its nce to be nice".
@OhSnap8306 No of course not. These are proper manners of adressing one and onther. The Queen adresses him as His Holiness as wel, that doesn`t mean that she`s gone catholic
This assertion has been one of longstanding by the Roman church. Unfortunatrly, the earkt history of the church really won't support it.In any event, separation occurred for both political and valid religious reasons. The history of the Christian Church is more complicated than Rome being the prime church, gradually separated fromthe east by schism and the west by heresies.
@Rheinlander Your view seems a tad romanticized. There were Anglican clergy upset over the varied issues dividing what is left of the Anglican communion who were muttering vigorously about their disenchantment and sounding out Rome.. Nevertheless, Ratzinger's invitation was very broad in scope looked to me and others like a rather ungracious effort to grab whatever he could get.
I think that it is important to note, that in the Holy Fathers address at this same service, he stated " there is more that we share in common then what divides us."
It would scarcely be accurate to describe what is happening in Anglican -Roman catholic church politics as a coming together. Rather the one group is collapsing and the other is scrambling to pick up whatever shards and pieces it can. Mr. Ratzinger has shown him self particularly eager to facillitate this with his efforts to woo C of E clergy.
As a man of goodwill he's probably thinking: "At last all Christians of goodwill are coming together. And right here in "my" abbey! What a blessing!" And - let me add - what a fantastic and much deserved tribute to a genious like Purcell.
I was thrilled to see Archbishop Williams in full mitre and vestments; conservative pre-Vatican II style vestments! Make no mistake; this is an ANGLICAN celebration as it should be. As for the homosexual controversy, not all parishes and Dioceses follow the norm. Some are wonderful and God-fearing, Bible-believing places of worship. God bless the Anglican Communion. It is not broken despite the heresey of the U.S. Episcopal Church. Even there, not all is lost!
I like this. The Anglican Church should offer to introduce democracy to the Roman Catholic Church. We are the same church, the only difference is the administration. I wonder what Richard Hooker would think of this.
@sirtfs Yeah, "the same church"... except the little fact that the A.C. was created so the King of England could grant himself a divorce... hmmmm... But, HEY! Rich Catholics buy annulments from the Vatican. all the time now, so maybe you're right. No difference besides the administration. Whatever that is.
This is totally magnificent. The sound from back to front has an unfortunate delay, but that is resolved as the procession gets to the front. This is one of the great hymns of all time. I have been to Westminster Abbey once, and I cannot imagine how wonderful it must be to be able to be there on a regular basis.
how about blowing the candles out, and switching on the electric lights on....how about taking off the elaborate gold braided robes and putting on the robes of humility - if you want to follow Christ, remember he made himself of no reputation. He humbled himself and took upon himself the role of a servant...
@NHMiami Humbled? No reputation? ...well, then how have you heard of him? Putting a lot of effort into making something really beautiful so as to glorify god is not a bad thing. You might not find this approach apealing, tell me what you think of the thousand seat arena churches that have rock bands and expensive light shows. Is that any different from this in your eyes (I'm simply curious here, not trying to be a dick in any way).
@Wally773MTG - I may have to respond in piecemeal, so you'll have to sort it out - LOL - To be honest, i love the old hymns of the church. I was raised in the Church of England, but I never learned what it was to have a personal relationship with Christ there. I think the question we have to ask today is this: Is the way we conduct church bringing people to faith in Christ or turning them off and pushing them away? While i can appreciate the beauty of the liturgy, i recognize that church...
@Wally773MTG ....is not about me. It's not about what i want or appreciate. It's about bringing people to know Christ as personal Lord and Savior. It's about people being born-again into the Kingdom of God. For todays young people, who are far from interested in formal, traditional churhes with irrelevant dead preaching, it's about presenting the Gospel in a "language" they understand. There is nothing sacred about the methods we've been using in church the the past 500 years...
@Wally773MTG The bible message must remain the same, but the methods of delivering that message must change in order for us to be relevant. We must be contemporary in our approach if we are to attract young people to the faith. It must be done in a way that will appeal to them... I think for most young people presenting the gospel in liturgy and traditional ways such at the RC or Cof E doeswould be a lot like trying to communicate with me in Chinese-Mandarin when I only speak English...
@Wally773MTG ....It would be frustrating and an exercise in futility. By the way, while flashing lights and Christian rock bands are not necessarily my cup of tea, I'm willing to "change" and "put up" with it,if it means young people coming to Christ and having a sincere life-changing experience with God. I don't think there is "one way" to do church, but any church that is losing members, needs to evolve and get in touch with the times and make some changes in their methods of delivering...
@Wally773MTG ....the message, or they will cease to exist... and as such you see dozens and dozens of churches in England closing their doors. Why? They've ceased to be relevant. In closing, I don't interpret what you said as you being a "dick" (lol)... and one last comment... regarding "Humbled? No reputation? ...and the question you asked, "How have you heard of him?" - That's my point, his humility changed the world. The bible says if we humble ourselves God will will lift us up!
@NHMiami IMO: Jesus was a PR master, and Paul & Emperor Constantine changed the world. Jesus might have preached humility, and I am not saying what he said was wrong in any way, but you don't accrue a cult following by being humble lol. In america, catholics despise vatican 2 and the whole awkward push to contemperorize the liturgy. I was raised catholic but I go to the Episcopal (american anglican) cathedral BECAUSE tradition is preserved there. I see a lot of young people there, like me, too.
The leadership in both the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church need to repent of their unbiblical traditions and religiosity and come back to the simple Gospel - you know, the one that changes peoples lives, the one that appeals to young people, the one that lives where people live...
The Gospel is Good News. Its all about the love God has for us. Its about men,women, teenagers and children coming to know Christ in a personal way and experiencing the power of God to change your life. Many churches are closed up or turned into mosques in England. Most of those that are still open usually have small congrgations mostly mde up with elderly people.
this kind of religion is not winning this generation to Christ. All the traditions have clouded the reality and made the Word of God ineffective in peoples lives. Many of the leaders in the Church of England no longer believe the Bible is the Word of God... Its the blind leading the blind....
i totally agree and i like the way you put it. RC in the philippines has very bad music. because i am a viollinist with the philharmonic, i decided to attend a presbyterian church and now am happy with the church. Still, when i play in the church i play the "traditional songs" of the old church and surprisingly people come to me and say they like it and feel nostalgic. The younger once also like it coz "it relaxes them and takes away stress."
I wonder what Henry Purcell is thinking, as he lies in his grave in the South Aisle adjacent to the organ case, in this great Abbey church in which he was Organist and Master of the Choristers, as a Pope and Bishop of Rome walks past just a few feet from his tomb?
@ds1868 Do not forget James O’Donnell, the Organist and Master of the Choristers of Westminster Abbey. A catholic, who was Master of Music at Westminster Cathedral, as a successor of Henry Purcell since 2000! (Ha Ha!)
@dies1domini James is lovely and very very talented. It's very sad that there are a lot of talented Catholic Directors of Music who are unable to use their talents properly in the Catholic church because the music there is so banal and awful. There are now just a handful of Catholic professional choirs, and if you visit the average Catholic parish, you will find awful modern mass settings and no-one singing any of the hymns.
@foodie65 The Westminster Abbey is funded by the State and the Queen herself surveys its management. The Westminster Cathedral has not the same status and the same budget of the Abbey and the funding of its fine choir is an issue every year. On the other hand directing the music of a Royal Wedding has a very different visibility from directing the music of the Vespers of the 3rd Sunday of Lent for a bunch of catholics.
@foodie65 I do not think that the quality of the music at the Westminster Cathedral was the reason that made O'Donnell to move to the Abbey. During his tenure Hyperion has published many fine CDs of the Westminster Cathedral Choir (that I have) and continues under the successor of O'Donnell.
Still, in that day the Pope was not the only catholic that Henry Purcell frown upon.
@dies1domini Sorry - I think you misunderstoood me. My comment wasn't a reflection on the quality of Westminster Cathedral choir - which is as good as the Abbey - it was more a general comment on how poor the music is in the average Catholic parish compared withthe average Anglican parish - many of whom have maintained a great choral tradition.
@iloveamerica007 The 'other bishop' is the 104th Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams. Actually, both Dr Williams and the Bishop of Rome would have received permission to attend this service, as Westminster Abbey is the property of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth The Second. I don't suppose though that historic and religious precedent and sentiment such as this could ever permiate your thick and ignorant skull.
@ds1868 I'm American and Anglican. I understand why one might find the comments of 'ilovamerica007' offensive, but they are typical of American Catholics. They love nothing more than to remind Episcopalians that Anglican orders are null and void as the Vatican in the 19th century announced. That being said, their rants have been a bit muted since the first sexual abuse cases surfaced. By the way, the official R. Catholic position is that Canterbury has not had a Bishop since the Reformation.
@dsindc Uh huh. While we're engaged in rather hilarious and untrue stereotypes, would you care to talk to a Roman Catholic with a master's degree? Personally I find it interesting that the Anglicans have lost a fair number of members to the RCC since the controversy over homosexual clergy has come out. But that's not what's important; I'm actually more interested in reunification more than anything. Want to have some coffee sometime?
@theusking Actually the number of Episcopal parishes that have left over the ordination of gay clergy has been rather low. It's ironic that if an individual leaves the EC, and becomes RC, the odds are far greater that their new priest will be gay. As for reunification, I'm afraid both churches need resuscitation more than anything. I just returned from Paris where the Church (ANY church) appears to be on life support.Re: stereotypes, there is nearly always an element of truth in them.(cont)
@theusking Coffee? Sure why not - but I live in Washington D.C. and have no idea where you are. I studied anthropology as an undergrad & find religion fascinating, and yes I have a graduate degree also. That's rather common here & not something normally brought into conversation. Is yours in theology or something? As for my personal beliefs, Like many I've long since left a belief in a transcendent deity, so any discussion regarding sectarianism is a bit moot.The Easter bunny got the boot too.
@theusking did you ever wonder why the difficult and thorny issue of homosexuality, which is splitting the cofe, has not raised its troublesome head in the rc church? you are right, there are many vicars moving to the rc church because of this matter. some may say, out of the frying pan and into the fire.
the rc church has yet to address the large number of homosexual paedophiles that are hidden under the cloak of celibacy within its midst. until that is achieved christianity is in freefall
@ds1868 I'm not sure about Purcell, but I suspect that the many Benedictine monks and other Roman Catholics buried in or near this mid 9th century, pre-Reformation edifice, had no problem with the Pope being there.
If Purcell was a true Christian, as I believe he was, he would be content and pleased with the progress of acceptance in this modern time that brings a 21st Century Pope to worship a timeless God in a 10th century Abbey.
@ds1868@ds1868 Well, Since Queen Mary's father, James II, was a Catholic king, I think he would not be too horrified at a Catholic in Westminster Abbey, where I too was at school. Also, he cannot have been too averse to Catholicism, since the words of this hymn "Angularis Fundamentum" are a translation of the Roman Office Hymn for Lauds of the dedication of a Church.
@Theliturgist Orthodoxy is superior over all denominations because of its steadfastness in ancient tradition, the Catholic Church has reformed and renovated the services of the Church to a massive degree.
@mishakol129 Totally! It has been about 5 years since I have attended the Roman Mass and I know that I wouldn't recognize it even in that short span of time. Renovation is key to the Roman Catholic church, so much that I think that in the newest Mass, one can opt to say the Nicene Creed or the Apostle's Creed. This is Protestantism in action. Luther should be happy now.
And Anglicans and US Episcopalians know has to say "amen" properly. It is AW men, not AE men. I don't know why Roman Catholics and Baptists both use AE men.
A couple of comments. 1) In Catholic Churches higher ranks process last (supposedly as a sign of servant hood or humility but things can get turned around) although I notice they have some clergy behind the Pope and the Archbishop. I read that in the middle ages this rule applied to traveling places with their entourage. If more than one Bishop was traveling in the same group they would jockey for who got to be last. 2) I like how the Archbishop is seen belting out the hymn.
@jorobinson I agree. I've never understand how the music of the Catholic Church collapsed. It's truly dreadful. All the hymns sound the same and have been harmonized into left hand chords and right hand single note melodies. They all sound the same.
JUST REMEMBER; ANGLICAN CAME FROM CATHOLIC, CATHOLIC IS LIKE A MOTHER TO EVERY CHRISTIAN CHURCH WHO JUST FOUNDED 100, 200, 300 ,400 AND SO ON, ROMAN CATHOLIC WAS FOUND 2000 YRS AGO BY JESUS CHRIST...
@tonganfoilole69 Well Catholicism is NOT the mother church to the one I belong to. There is only one true Church, the church of Jesus Christ. If your "church" does not teach the importance of being born again by the Spirit of God, something which can only take place by a personal decision and not one of your parents,that we pray only to God Himself and no-one else - alive or dead - and the priesthood of ALL believers then it is not part of the Church of Jesus Christ.
@tonganfoilole69 The Roman Catholic church claims to originate in Saint Peter as indicated by Christ in St Matthews gospel. In reality the primacy of the Roman church over Western Christianity took several hundred years to be established.
The first church was in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost. Modern times, the Roman catholic church refers to other churches as separated brethren.
@tonganfoilole69 Actually, the church as a whole was founded bij Christ, not the Roman Catholic church. It dos carry that tradition, yet it is not the same as that early church. I personally believe that all churches are founded by Christ and carry the tradition of the Christian church and are led by Christ and no human being. He is perfectly capable of handling the church Himself
Nothing beats Anglican Music in an Anglican Abbey, singing the Anglican tune of a man (Purcell) whose remains are buried metres away from the organ playing his music. It just doesn't get any better than this!!!
This selection during the Papal visit is most interesting given the words of the selection chosen. Rather than emphasizing the Roman (Mainstream Catholic) position of the Church being founded upon Peter (and the Papacy from that point onwards) this selection emphasizes the church being founded upon Christ and Christ being the head of the church rather than the Pope. I would have loved to hear the Pope's reaction to this piece.
@auguy2012 It would probably amaze you that both things are absolutely entwined together. Naturally, this being an ecumenical celebration, a petrine hymn wouldn't be quite the thing since it would make some people uncomfortable.
@Portubed The nuances are certainly interesting, most importantly the selection of Westminster Abbey (The Seat of Anglicanism) as the site of the Ecumenical Celebration rather than a more neutral site such as Wembley Stadium or somewhere similar. Perhaps this was a way for the Church of England to establish dominance in their own way towards the Papacy and Papal Church. By chance, did the Queen attend this?
@auguy2012 I think you missed my previous point. About the power struggle you present, I completely disagree that that's the right lens with which to try to make sense of it. Westminster Abbey was once Catholic and it makes sense that the Pope is received in the Anglican main church, with the Archbishop of Canterbury. A neutral ground, as you propose, wouldn't make sense at all because this was mainly about the religious mission of the Pope, not mainly political, and that's how it should be.
I saw a potention football player .... who can drop a paper and a very accurate kick to the side passing to the congregation...Nice Kick ! Sister !...anyway, not to bring insult or anything... God loves all of us.. !!! ^^
The rest is history eh? C of E has nothing to do with the Reformation? Hey, how long has it been since we read scripture in Latin in the Anglican Church? Oh yeah, like over 450 years. And how long has it been since we've subscribed to the doctrine of transubstantiation? Not since old Mary brought us back to Rome for 6 bloody years. There's nothing "catholic" about our church, nor are some Anglican churches more "catholic" than others; this is a Catholic church, and reformed. Via media, people.
@televitulac Whilst I think that the CofE was definitely influenced by the reformation in its formative years, I think the point being made is that most Anglican Churches describe themselves as "reformed catholic" not protestant, certainly in terms of apostolic succession and liturgy. In terms of Latin, many CofE churches use latin mass settings, sing the Credo every week in Latin, with Benediction also in Latin. That is something you would be hard pushed to find in RC churches.
@gregnaboy--The Church of England has nothing to do with the Protestant Reformation! It has to do with the fact that Henry VIII wanted to divorce his Roman Catholic wife and the pope at the time refused to grant it. Henry took matters into his own hands and declared himself the head of the Church of England and the rest is history.
@pastordel100 Completely agree. The Church of England has nothing to do with Martin Luther and the Reformation. Actually Henry VIII was so horrified with Luther that his denunciation was rewarded by the Pope with the title 'Defender of the Faith', a title still carrried by English monarchs today and is on our coins: F.D., Fidelis Defensor. Politics was the key: Queen Katherine was the niece of the German Emperor Charles V, who would have invaded Italy if the Pope had granted the divorce.
The Church of the Advent in Boston, Mass., is Anglican, and is more "catholic" than many catholic churches in the city. Gorgeous Mass, church and choir. They have a web site. And now that the R.C. Church has Anglican-use parishes, many Catholics are finding this out too.
I look forward to Her Majesty being invited to Rome as head of the Anglican church... and although I'm sure that will never happen, I'm sure you will agree that it should??
@02Blackbeard I would never defend the political power of the pope. I am talking about the difference between me and friends who are Catholic, which is something I would rather resolve than shout about. We need to look at the distinction and understand it. The symbolism at the top is slightly less important to me (but a mere part of this distinction).
@ambrosius How on earth can that possibly be sad? There is one truth, and, if we journey together, mightn't we find it together? I am not saying the C of E should change its doctrines for their sake, but that I cannot see how divisions are helpful to faith.
Why is the priest walking next to the pope wearing his abbit and why is he blessing people with the sign of the cross when the pope should be the one blessing people as they walk in to the basilica...
A warm and genuinely respectful service of Evensong during which both leaders of their respective traditions seemed to embrace the moment. Ceremony and singing of a quality we Yanks can only wish for. Then we see the comments of trolls and malcontents of all flavors and faiths (or no faith) who must post their calumny and petty criticisms completely lacking in even a trace of Christian charity. Father, forgive them. Kudos to the Queen and Archbishop Williams for the warm welcome.
The British sense of humour...spend six months implying he isn't welcome and then give him a service like this! No wonder he was almost grinning with enjoyment.
@Bjordan87 Because it is 'his abbey',also meaning disobedience to the Christ'sVicar, that is the fundamental problem of this picture, he bows to some crown and a queen or a king, not to the pontifex, all together his blessings to the people are just pointless and offensive, and to me, being a catholic,blasphemous!
@dregomor I, too, am gravely offended by points of historical fact. I'd much prefer we could agree to ignore over four centuries of change in order to suit our religious sentiments.
@amrhart87 That was politics, not religion, but in fact we belong to the same Church, and believe in the same God, not kings, majesties, golden robes,and other things of this world, and it is sad but still a fact, people are being killed all over the world, just for being christians, today as same as centuries ago.
@dregomor If you mean the Archbishop of Canterbury, it is not 'his Abbey'. Westminster Abbey has always, before and after the break with Rome, belonged to the Crown. The fact that you have very little grasp of the basic facts of this institution proves that you have little or no authority to voice any opinion on this topic at all.
I am glad that the pope got to hear a wonderful singing congregation and a grand organ, something very often (but not always) missing in the Roman Church. This kind of music is duplicated in all sorts of churches, large and small, among Anglicans, Lutherans, and other Protestant denominations.
@jorobinson FYI~My Roman Catholic Parish, Saint Raymond of Penafort, Springfield, Virginia, USA has a wonderful Adult Choir that sings many of these same songs at the 8:45AM High Mass. We have a magnificent Church built in 2006, but with "recycled" stained glass windows, taken from parishes in PA that were closed. Statues from a parish in NY State and altars from PA as well.
You should go to our website and take a tour of our beautiful parish!
@MummyOXO@MummyOXO I looked at your web site, and the church is lovely. I may have read about it in Preservation Magazine. I like the recycling, and your church is just right for those old-fashioned stained glass windows. I am glad that your parish is musically minded. I find the music to be dismal in many parishes of all denominations, and even in the masses broadcast from the Vatican. You and I are lucky enough to be in churches with good music!
It is sad that nearly every Catholic church I have been to has an aging electronic organ, small music staff, and under-trained musicians. sadly, many of the Catholic parishes are moving to the "happy clappy' music. My Presbyterian church has a brand new tracker organ, large choir, and professional musicians...along with leadership that values tradition and liturgy. I wish for my Catholic friends that the Roman church would reinvest in music. They are the ones who invented it!!
@mattsplace85 One good reason to stop going to Mass: the abysmal standard of music in the average Catholic parish. Most stand there "stumm" rather than sing and, if they do join in, it's usually in some awful ditty from the Celebration Hymnal. This latter is a folksy songbook full of banal tunes and banal words. If you want to be uplifted, go elsewhere.
@Samphire112 You are so right. I went to a Roman Catholic mass in London last week - terrible music, organ barley audible and badly played, a Gloria where people were clapping hands, and no-one singing any of the hymns. The priest and congregation mumbled their way through the mass - and it was like a scrum at communion, and about a quarter of the church walked before the end. Such a contrast to the Anglican church nearby with beautiful traditional music and a a very reverant Sung Eucharist
@Samphire112 You are so right. I went to a Roman Catholic mass in London last week - terrible music, organ barley audible and badly played, a Gloria where people were clapping hands, and no-one singing any of the hymns. The priest and congregation mumbled their way through the mass - and it was like a scrum at communion, and about a quarter of the church walked before the end. Such a contrast to the Anglican church nearby with beautiful traditional music and a a very reverant Sung Eucharist.
@jorobinson Hmmmm.... yeah. I'm sure that, growing up in Germany--the nation that gave us Martin Luther and Bach, the current king of the altarboys lacked the opportunity to hear Protestant choral music accompanied by a grand organ... LMFAO!!!!
@nauort23 You probably do not know the rules before the 2nd Vatican Council. As a catholic, you were banned to even enter a protestant church and attending a sevice used to be a mortal sin. I would be very surprised if Ratzinger attended a protestant service in while in Germany.
@catheh06 I was brought up Catholic and I know how well we all heed the warnings of the "mortal sin" category (like sex, for instance...), and I have never attended a Protestant service in my life, besides a graveside service. YET, I've heard singing coming from churches--and in recordings. Ratzinger was born in the 20th Century, btw; not the 17th.
@catheh06 Westminster Abbey isn't a 'protestant church'. The theology and liturgy of the Church of England is formally described as 'reformed catholic'. I'm sure catholics think we're 'protestant', but we don't.
@gregnaboy Westminster Abbey has never 'belonged' to the Catholic church in a material sense in the first place. Founded by King Edgar in the tenth century, and rebuilt by King Henry III in the thirteenth century, the Abbey has always been the personal property of the Crown, and remains so to this day. The Archbishop of Canterbury has never had any juristiction over this church. Indeed, for this service to take place, the approval of the Queen was required for this service to take place.
Political differences of the Sixteenth Century a "Protestant" does not make... However, I thought it was rather nice to let members of the "Italian Mission" take part in the service.
@kingofprussia33 WELL SAID! I personally don't believe the Anglican Church to be a protestant denomination but rather another branch of the Church Catholic. You have the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Anglican Communion, and Protestant Christianity.
@Daniel21384 Abandoning historic Catholic order means one is no longer Catholic. I wouldn't consider the Anglican Communion to be Protestant simply because it is no longer recognisably Christian!
@browncello I don't believe that I've abandonded historic anything and you can disagree with me until you are blue in the face but that's how it is. I was raised Anglican and went to the Roman Church for five years and am now back to Anglican because I'd rather be around thinking open minded joyful people who actually want to be at mass instead of a bunch of cranky sourpusses who don't sing and bolt for the doors during the last hymn and who hate anybody who doesn't think the way that they do.
@browncello Also, the Anglican Church is Christian whether you like it or not. Again, you can say that until you are blue in the face but you are wrong and I know over 80 million other people who agree with me..lol. I am a proud joyful Christian. I love Christ and have given my life to Him and have centered and molded my life around Christ and the sacraments. You don't know my heart so don't judge. You are probably a guiltfilled person who has not experienced joy in Christ. I will pray for you.
@Daniel21384 My comment was not personal in nature or tone and I'd appreciate the same consideration. I made no aspersions about you or your practise of the Faith which I'm sure is quite sincere. I was commenting on the numerous theological and sacramental innovations the Anglican Communion have made over the past few decades. Abrogating 2,000 years of Apostolic Succession is a very grave thing indeed. It is adherence to that Succession that makes a church Catholic.
@browncello Hey, we agree on something! Abrogating 2,000 years of Apostolic Succession is a very grave thing indeed and yes that adherence makes a church Catholic and which is why I would not be able to join a protestant church. The Anglican Communion is a Catholic denomination because we as well as the Eastern Orthodox Church are a part of that 2,000 year succession in the eyes of God and a declaration by some dead Pope or a few Romans who disagree with us won't change that. :-)
@Daniel21384 Sorry, but attempting to ordain women to the priesthood and episcopate is a breach of the historic Apostolic Succession as established by Christ himself. The Anglican Communion are alone in that innovation; both Rome and Orthodoxy hold that the Church has no authority whatsoever to alter the nature of the priesthood as instituted by our Divine Saviour. When Canterbury started laying hands on women (and embracing other theological aberrations), it ceased to be Catholic. Ciao!
@browncello I doubt that Christ was a sexist and treated women in a manner that makes them inferior to men. Again, something thought up by a dead pope. The body of Christ was taken down off of the cross and placed into the arms of women and women were present again at the resurrection. Women played a very important role in scripture and in our story as Christians. Chist was born of a woman, Mary our Queen. Canterbury is as Catholic as ever and bitterness from Rome won't change that. Toodles!
@Daniel21384 Yes, all true about women in the NT, and JC STILL only ordained MEN as priests/ Apostles. The faith of women in the NT was more impressive than the mens' faith -agreed 100%. But JC in his wisdom desired that MEN partake in his priesthood, for reasons both known to us and some mysterious. That was consistent with the norms of only MEN being priests in the OT. There is no way around this, no matter what one wishes to believe.
@browncello My comment was not personal in nature or tone and I'd appreciate the same consideration. I made no aspersions about you or your practise of the Faith which I'm sure is quite sincere. I was commenting on the numerous theological and sacramental innovations the Anglican Communion have made over the past few decades. Abrogating 2,000 years of Apostolic Succession is a very grave thing indeed. It is adherence to that Succession that makes a church Catholic.
Yeah the Nuns are totally with it. Well the Bishop of Rome, invited by Her Majesty chose the stole of Leo XIII who declared Anglican Orders as "Null and Void". Successive Popes have validated their orders though gifts, but this Bull has never been rescinded.
Anglicans at our best. I was a roman catholic, but I left for the Episcopal Church 15 years ago. I do wish there was intercommunion between the churches. We both have apostolic succession. But the rcc will never accept us. Oh well God loves us all equally.
hrmjustin 1 week ago
Brothers and Sisters! The time for the Lord's coming draws near! It is time to put aside all human divisions and Worship together His Holy Name. The Holy Father is being led by the Holy Spirit as is the Archbishop of Canterbury to find 'Common Ground.' We are One in the Lord despite our weakness of Understanding, or inadquacy of Love, our failure to set aside pride and prejudice. ")Come Holy Spirit" and make Jesus prayer in John 17 a reality among us before You visibly come again. Amen!
jeff62rey 1 week ago
Its nice to see the Pope chumming it up with the Anglcans." Cant we all just get along...? " To quote that infamous Negro criminal in L.A. Remember what King Narsise always said..."Its nce to be nice".
mudgebauer 1 week ago
1:24
"Ooooh, so many boys... who to choose..."
Nah i'm kidding. I'm a Catholic ;)
OfficialRJLextro 2 weeks ago
At 1:23, I think the pope is thinking: "Damn, the Anglicans can put on a show".
brandonlh05 3 weeks ago 6
@brandonlh05 Anglicans are keepers of the liturgy, and Anglicanism is a "preserved catholicism."
PsychoPunk1965 2 weeks ago
the archibishop called the pope " your holliness"
while the pope only called him " your grace"
dose it mean that the anglican church have recognized pope as the one leader and god on earth???
p.s have the two churches started the reunion??
OhSnap8306 1 month ago
@OhSnap8306 No of course not. These are proper manners of adressing one and onther. The Queen adresses him as His Holiness as wel, that doesn`t mean that she`s gone catholic
Rens1989 3 weeks ago
What was the interference near the end of the video ?
DivineSaint1517 1 month ago
@tonganfoilo69
This assertion has been one of longstanding by the Roman church. Unfortunatrly, the earkt history of the church really won't support it.In any event, separation occurred for both political and valid religious reasons. The history of the Christian Church is more complicated than Rome being the prime church, gradually separated fromthe east by schism and the west by heresies.
Gatltonian 1 month ago 2
@Rheinlander Your view seems a tad romanticized. There were Anglican clergy upset over the varied issues dividing what is left of the Anglican communion who were muttering vigorously about their disenchantment and sounding out Rome.. Nevertheless, Ratzinger's invitation was very broad in scope looked to me and others like a rather ungracious effort to grab whatever he could get.
Gatltonian 1 month ago
@1:50.....just awesome
austreneland 1 month ago
Silly nun should have picked the piece of paper up instead of kicking it to the side...
yardgoods 2 months ago
I think that it is important to note, that in the Holy Fathers address at this same service, he stated " there is more that we share in common then what divides us."
padreq12 2 months ago in playlist Liturgics 3
It would scarcely be accurate to describe what is happening in Anglican -Roman catholic church politics as a coming together. Rather the one group is collapsing and the other is scrambling to pick up whatever shards and pieces it can. Mr. Ratzinger has shown him self particularly eager to facillitate this with his efforts to woo C of E clergy.
.
TheGaltonian 2 months ago
@TheGaltonian Well said.
RidinHighSince89 1 month ago
@TheGaltonian
I recall it was the Anglicans who approached the Pope on the possibility of entering the RC Church.
Rheinlander95 1 month ago
As a man of goodwill he's probably thinking: "At last all Christians of goodwill are coming together. And right here in "my" abbey! What a blessing!" And - let me add - what a fantastic and much deserved tribute to a genious like Purcell.
ChefeDeQuina 2 months ago
I was thrilled to see Archbishop Williams in full mitre and vestments; conservative pre-Vatican II style vestments! Make no mistake; this is an ANGLICAN celebration as it should be. As for the homosexual controversy, not all parishes and Dioceses follow the norm. Some are wonderful and God-fearing, Bible-believing places of worship. God bless the Anglican Communion. It is not broken despite the heresey of the U.S. Episcopal Church. Even there, not all is lost!
BigDaddyOldDude 2 months ago
I like this. The Anglican Church should offer to introduce democracy to the Roman Catholic Church. We are the same church, the only difference is the administration. I wonder what Richard Hooker would think of this.
sirtfs 2 months ago
@sirtfs Yeah, "the same church"... except the little fact that the A.C. was created so the King of England could grant himself a divorce... hmmmm... But, HEY! Rich Catholics buy annulments from the Vatican. all the time now, so maybe you're right. No difference besides the administration. Whatever that is.
nauort23 2 months ago
This is totally magnificent. The sound from back to front has an unfortunate delay, but that is resolved as the procession gets to the front. This is one of the great hymns of all time. I have been to Westminster Abbey once, and I cannot imagine how wonderful it must be to be able to be there on a regular basis.
SonOfTX 3 months ago
why do popes always look senile and perverse?
Bigbearbeau 3 months ago
@Bigbearbeau Both are job requirements. Why do bears always have something about bears in their cyber names?
nauort23 2 months ago
how about blowing the candles out, and switching on the electric lights on....how about taking off the elaborate gold braided robes and putting on the robes of humility - if you want to follow Christ, remember he made himself of no reputation. He humbled himself and took upon himself the role of a servant...
NHMiami 3 months ago
@NHMiami Humbled? No reputation? ...well, then how have you heard of him? Putting a lot of effort into making something really beautiful so as to glorify god is not a bad thing. You might not find this approach apealing, tell me what you think of the thousand seat arena churches that have rock bands and expensive light shows. Is that any different from this in your eyes (I'm simply curious here, not trying to be a dick in any way).
Wally773MTG 3 months ago
@Wally773MTG - I may have to respond in piecemeal, so you'll have to sort it out - LOL - To be honest, i love the old hymns of the church. I was raised in the Church of England, but I never learned what it was to have a personal relationship with Christ there. I think the question we have to ask today is this: Is the way we conduct church bringing people to faith in Christ or turning them off and pushing them away? While i can appreciate the beauty of the liturgy, i recognize that church...
NHMiami 3 months ago
@Wally773MTG ....is not about me. It's not about what i want or appreciate. It's about bringing people to know Christ as personal Lord and Savior. It's about people being born-again into the Kingdom of God. For todays young people, who are far from interested in formal, traditional churhes with irrelevant dead preaching, it's about presenting the Gospel in a "language" they understand. There is nothing sacred about the methods we've been using in church the the past 500 years...
NHMiami 3 months ago
@Wally773MTG The bible message must remain the same, but the methods of delivering that message must change in order for us to be relevant. We must be contemporary in our approach if we are to attract young people to the faith. It must be done in a way that will appeal to them... I think for most young people presenting the gospel in liturgy and traditional ways such at the RC or Cof E doeswould be a lot like trying to communicate with me in Chinese-Mandarin when I only speak English...
NHMiami 3 months ago
@Wally773MTG ....It would be frustrating and an exercise in futility. By the way, while flashing lights and Christian rock bands are not necessarily my cup of tea, I'm willing to "change" and "put up" with it,if it means young people coming to Christ and having a sincere life-changing experience with God. I don't think there is "one way" to do church, but any church that is losing members, needs to evolve and get in touch with the times and make some changes in their methods of delivering...
NHMiami 3 months ago
@Wally773MTG ....the message, or they will cease to exist... and as such you see dozens and dozens of churches in England closing their doors. Why? They've ceased to be relevant. In closing, I don't interpret what you said as you being a "dick" (lol)... and one last comment... regarding "Humbled? No reputation? ...and the question you asked, "How have you heard of him?" - That's my point, his humility changed the world. The bible says if we humble ourselves God will will lift us up!
NHMiami 3 months ago
@NHMiami IMO: Jesus was a PR master, and Paul & Emperor Constantine changed the world. Jesus might have preached humility, and I am not saying what he said was wrong in any way, but you don't accrue a cult following by being humble lol. In america, catholics despise vatican 2 and the whole awkward push to contemperorize the liturgy. I was raised catholic but I go to the Episcopal (american anglican) cathedral BECAUSE tradition is preserved there. I see a lot of young people there, like me, too.
Wally773MTG 3 months ago
The leadership in both the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church need to repent of their unbiblical traditions and religiosity and come back to the simple Gospel - you know, the one that changes peoples lives, the one that appeals to young people, the one that lives where people live...
NHMiami 3 months ago
@NHMiami Those traditions speak to my faith and to the faith of many other people.
padreq12 2 months ago
The Gospel is Good News. Its all about the love God has for us. Its about men,women, teenagers and children coming to know Christ in a personal way and experiencing the power of God to change your life. Many churches are closed up or turned into mosques in England. Most of those that are still open usually have small congrgations mostly mde up with elderly people.
NHMiami 3 months ago
this kind of religion is not winning this generation to Christ. All the traditions have clouded the reality and made the Word of God ineffective in peoples lives. Many of the leaders in the Church of England no longer believe the Bible is the Word of God... Its the blind leading the blind....
NHMiami 3 months ago
@mikedcc220
i totally agree and i like the way you put it. RC in the philippines has very bad music. because i am a viollinist with the philharmonic, i decided to attend a presbyterian church and now am happy with the church. Still, when i play in the church i play the "traditional songs" of the old church and surprisingly people come to me and say they like it and feel nostalgic. The younger once also like it coz "it relaxes them and takes away stress."
philipvlnst 3 months ago
I wonder what Henry Purcell is thinking, as he lies in his grave in the South Aisle adjacent to the organ case, in this great Abbey church in which he was Organist and Master of the Choristers, as a Pope and Bishop of Rome walks past just a few feet from his tomb?
ds1868 4 months ago 12
@ds1868 Amen.
Revdjhouse 4 months ago
@ds1868 Do not forget James O’Donnell, the Organist and Master of the Choristers of Westminster Abbey. A catholic, who was Master of Music at Westminster Cathedral, as a successor of Henry Purcell since 2000! (Ha Ha!)
dies1domini 3 months ago
@dies1domini James is lovely and very very talented. It's very sad that there are a lot of talented Catholic Directors of Music who are unable to use their talents properly in the Catholic church because the music there is so banal and awful. There are now just a handful of Catholic professional choirs, and if you visit the average Catholic parish, you will find awful modern mass settings and no-one singing any of the hymns.
foodie65 3 months ago
@foodie65 The Westminster Abbey is funded by the State and the Queen herself surveys its management. The Westminster Cathedral has not the same status and the same budget of the Abbey and the funding of its fine choir is an issue every year. On the other hand directing the music of a Royal Wedding has a very different visibility from directing the music of the Vespers of the 3rd Sunday of Lent for a bunch of catholics.
dies1domini 3 months ago
@foodie65 I do not think that the quality of the music at the Westminster Cathedral was the reason that made O'Donnell to move to the Abbey. During his tenure Hyperion has published many fine CDs of the Westminster Cathedral Choir (that I have) and continues under the successor of O'Donnell.
Still, in that day the Pope was not the only catholic that Henry Purcell frown upon.
dies1domini 3 months ago
@dies1domini Sorry - I think you misunderstoood me. My comment wasn't a reflection on the quality of Westminster Cathedral choir - which is as good as the Abbey - it was more a general comment on how poor the music is in the average Catholic parish compared withthe average Anglican parish - many of whom have maintained a great choral tradition.
foodie65 3 months ago
@ds1868
The pope is the bishop of rome
that other bishop is anglican
iloveamerica007 3 months ago
@iloveamerica007 The 'other bishop' is the 104th Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams. Actually, both Dr Williams and the Bishop of Rome would have received permission to attend this service, as Westminster Abbey is the property of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth The Second. I don't suppose though that historic and religious precedent and sentiment such as this could ever permiate your thick and ignorant skull.
ds1868 3 months ago
@ds1868 I'm American and Anglican. I understand why one might find the comments of 'ilovamerica007' offensive, but they are typical of American Catholics. They love nothing more than to remind Episcopalians that Anglican orders are null and void as the Vatican in the 19th century announced. That being said, their rants have been a bit muted since the first sexual abuse cases surfaced. By the way, the official R. Catholic position is that Canterbury has not had a Bishop since the Reformation.
dsindc 3 months ago
@dsindc Uh huh. While we're engaged in rather hilarious and untrue stereotypes, would you care to talk to a Roman Catholic with a master's degree? Personally I find it interesting that the Anglicans have lost a fair number of members to the RCC since the controversy over homosexual clergy has come out. But that's not what's important; I'm actually more interested in reunification more than anything. Want to have some coffee sometime?
theusking 3 months ago
@theusking Actually the number of Episcopal parishes that have left over the ordination of gay clergy has been rather low. It's ironic that if an individual leaves the EC, and becomes RC, the odds are far greater that their new priest will be gay. As for reunification, I'm afraid both churches need resuscitation more than anything. I just returned from Paris where the Church (ANY church) appears to be on life support.Re: stereotypes, there is nearly always an element of truth in them.(cont)
dsindc 3 months ago
@theusking Coffee? Sure why not - but I live in Washington D.C. and have no idea where you are. I studied anthropology as an undergrad & find religion fascinating, and yes I have a graduate degree also. That's rather common here & not something normally brought into conversation. Is yours in theology or something? As for my personal beliefs, Like many I've long since left a belief in a transcendent deity, so any discussion regarding sectarianism is a bit moot.The Easter bunny got the boot too.
dsindc 3 months ago
@theusking did you ever wonder why the difficult and thorny issue of homosexuality, which is splitting the cofe, has not raised its troublesome head in the rc church? you are right, there are many vicars moving to the rc church because of this matter. some may say, out of the frying pan and into the fire.
the rc church has yet to address the large number of homosexual paedophiles that are hidden under the cloak of celibacy within its midst. until that is achieved christianity is in freefall
viago2 2 months ago
@ds1868 I am sure he is ok with it because he probably knows we as Christians should be more united in our love and worship of Christ!
MarcA711 3 months ago
@ds1868 I'm not sure about Purcell, but I suspect that the many Benedictine monks and other Roman Catholics buried in or near this mid 9th century, pre-Reformation edifice, had no problem with the Pope being there.
lichtbroeder 2 months ago
If Purcell was a true Christian, as I believe he was, he would be content and pleased with the progress of acceptance in this modern time that brings a 21st Century Pope to worship a timeless God in a 10th century Abbey.
sheldonrc1 2 months ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@sheldonrc1 baloney. a true christian would not join with the whore of Rome.
ncguy27215 2 months ago
Comment removed
josephusmuris 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ds1868 @ds1868 Well, Since Queen Mary's father, James II, was a Catholic king, I think he would not be too horrified at a Catholic in Westminster Abbey, where I too was at school. Also, he cannot have been too averse to Catholicism, since the words of this hymn "Angularis Fundamentum" are a translation of the Roman Office Hymn for Lauds of the dedication of a Church.
josephusmuris 1 month ago
@ds1868 Keep the noise down!
SonofDurgesuth 3 weeks ago
@mikedcc220: They went nuts and chose music directors who had tin ears. The guitar music was an inferior take on folk music.
JRobbySh 4 months ago
@gregnaboy
i couldn't stop laughing after reading your post! Coz i also think the same way at times.
philipvlnst 4 months ago
Except for the women priests. That really turns me off and makes me thankful that I am an Orthodox Christian.
Theliturgist 4 months ago
@Theliturgist Orthodoxy is superior over all denominations because of its steadfastness in ancient tradition, the Catholic Church has reformed and renovated the services of the Church to a massive degree.
mishakol129 4 months ago
@mishakol129 Totally! It has been about 5 years since I have attended the Roman Mass and I know that I wouldn't recognize it even in that short span of time. Renovation is key to the Roman Catholic church, so much that I think that in the newest Mass, one can opt to say the Nicene Creed or the Apostle's Creed. This is Protestantism in action. Luther should be happy now.
Theliturgist 4 months ago
@mishakol129 true Christianity has no "superiority". you're comment just ruins the ecumenical faithfulness of this video.
thedoctorplusone 4 months ago
It is usual for a bishop to be followed by their chaplain whilst in procession.
x8lover 4 months ago
@x8lover In the same way an adjutant follows a gegiment on parade.
idle44 4 months ago
And Anglicans and US Episcopalians know has to say "amen" properly. It is AW men, not AE men. I don't know why Roman Catholics and Baptists both use AE men.
someonespadre 4 months ago
@someonespadre AW men.
TedMichaelMorgan 4 months ago
A couple of comments. 1) In Catholic Churches higher ranks process last (supposedly as a sign of servant hood or humility but things can get turned around) although I notice they have some clergy behind the Pope and the Archbishop. I read that in the middle ages this rule applied to traveling places with their entourage. If more than one Bishop was traveling in the same group they would jockey for who got to be last. 2) I like how the Archbishop is seen belting out the hymn.
someonespadre 4 months ago
@jorobinson I agree. I've never understand how the music of the Catholic Church collapsed. It's truly dreadful. All the hymns sound the same and have been harmonized into left hand chords and right hand single note melodies. They all sound the same.
mikedc2020 4 months ago
JUST REMEMBER; ANGLICAN CAME FROM CATHOLIC, CATHOLIC IS LIKE A MOTHER TO EVERY CHRISTIAN CHURCH WHO JUST FOUNDED 100, 200, 300 ,400 AND SO ON, ROMAN CATHOLIC WAS FOUND 2000 YRS AGO BY JESUS CHRIST...
tonganfoilole69 4 months ago 10
@tonganfoilole69 Well Catholicism is NOT the mother church to the one I belong to. There is only one true Church, the church of Jesus Christ. If your "church" does not teach the importance of being born again by the Spirit of God, something which can only take place by a personal decision and not one of your parents,that we pray only to God Himself and no-one else - alive or dead - and the priesthood of ALL believers then it is not part of the Church of Jesus Christ.
outlookesp 4 months ago
@tonganfoilole69 sure it is...lol what a jerk...the RC church is a deviation from the teachings of Christ
dimacosi 4 months ago
@tonganfoilole69 I don't think you are correct there..
TheChorister51 1 month ago
@tonganfoilole69 The Roman Catholic church claims to originate in Saint Peter as indicated by Christ in St Matthews gospel. In reality the primacy of the Roman church over Western Christianity took several hundred years to be established.
The first church was in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost. Modern times, the Roman catholic church refers to other churches as separated brethren.
TheChorister51 1 month ago
@tonganfoilole69 That's a lie! the early Christians had very protestant like beliefs.
hortulanus94 4 weeks ago
@tonganfoilole69 True...but catholics did change (for the worse) and thus need reformation.
hortulanus94 3 weeks ago
@tonganfoilole69 Actually, the church as a whole was founded bij Christ, not the Roman Catholic church. It dos carry that tradition, yet it is not the same as that early church. I personally believe that all churches are founded by Christ and carry the tradition of the Christian church and are led by Christ and no human being. He is perfectly capable of handling the church Himself
Rens1989 3 weeks ago 2
Nothing beats Anglican Music in an Anglican Abbey, singing the Anglican tune of a man (Purcell) whose remains are buried metres away from the organ playing his music. It just doesn't get any better than this!!!
Revdjhouse 4 months ago 2
I am so happy that conservative England keeps christian rules. i hope we will be united soon: catholics and english church. Greatings from Poland!
ebreandhil 4 months ago
This selection during the Papal visit is most interesting given the words of the selection chosen. Rather than emphasizing the Roman (Mainstream Catholic) position of the Church being founded upon Peter (and the Papacy from that point onwards) this selection emphasizes the church being founded upon Christ and Christ being the head of the church rather than the Pope. I would have loved to hear the Pope's reaction to this piece.
auguy2012 4 months ago 2
@auguy2012 It would probably amaze you that both things are absolutely entwined together. Naturally, this being an ecumenical celebration, a petrine hymn wouldn't be quite the thing since it would make some people uncomfortable.
Portubed 4 months ago
@Portubed The nuances are certainly interesting, most importantly the selection of Westminster Abbey (The Seat of Anglicanism) as the site of the Ecumenical Celebration rather than a more neutral site such as Wembley Stadium or somewhere similar. Perhaps this was a way for the Church of England to establish dominance in their own way towards the Papacy and Papal Church. By chance, did the Queen attend this?
auguy2012 4 months ago
@auguy2012 I think you missed my previous point. About the power struggle you present, I completely disagree that that's the right lens with which to try to make sense of it. Westminster Abbey was once Catholic and it makes sense that the Pope is received in the Anglican main church, with the Archbishop of Canterbury. A neutral ground, as you propose, wouldn't make sense at all because this was mainly about the religious mission of the Pope, not mainly political, and that's how it should be.
Portubed 4 months ago
@auguy2012 yes, but she should have ignored it. Is that the one who wore Nike trainers for Will and Kate's wedding?
outlookesp 4 months ago
I saw a potention football player .... who can drop a paper and a very accurate kick to the side passing to the congregation...Nice Kick ! Sister !...anyway, not to bring insult or anything... God loves all of us.. !!! ^^
jhchunsheng 4 months ago
@jhchunsheng Saw that drop kick at 1:50 too.
Anglican Gray Nuns should start their own football team:-)
MrZadokthePriest 4 months ago 2
The rest is history eh? C of E has nothing to do with the Reformation? Hey, how long has it been since we read scripture in Latin in the Anglican Church? Oh yeah, like over 450 years. And how long has it been since we've subscribed to the doctrine of transubstantiation? Not since old Mary brought us back to Rome for 6 bloody years. There's nothing "catholic" about our church, nor are some Anglican churches more "catholic" than others; this is a Catholic church, and reformed. Via media, people.
televitulac 5 months ago
@televitulac Whilst I think that the CofE was definitely influenced by the reformation in its formative years, I think the point being made is that most Anglican Churches describe themselves as "reformed catholic" not protestant, certainly in terms of apostolic succession and liturgy. In terms of Latin, many CofE churches use latin mass settings, sing the Credo every week in Latin, with Benediction also in Latin. That is something you would be hard pushed to find in RC churches.
foodie65 5 months ago
@gregnaboy--The Church of England has nothing to do with the Protestant Reformation! It has to do with the fact that Henry VIII wanted to divorce his Roman Catholic wife and the pope at the time refused to grant it. Henry took matters into his own hands and declared himself the head of the Church of England and the rest is history.
pastordel100 5 months ago
@pastordel100 Completely agree. The Church of England has nothing to do with Martin Luther and the Reformation. Actually Henry VIII was so horrified with Luther that his denunciation was rewarded by the Pope with the title 'Defender of the Faith', a title still carrried by English monarchs today and is on our coins: F.D., Fidelis Defensor. Politics was the key: Queen Katherine was the niece of the German Emperor Charles V, who would have invaded Italy if the Pope had granted the divorce.
ds1868 5 months ago
The Church of the Advent in Boston, Mass., is Anglican, and is more "catholic" than many catholic churches in the city. Gorgeous Mass, church and choir. They have a web site. And now that the R.C. Church has Anglican-use parishes, many Catholics are finding this out too.
lichtbroeder 5 months ago
HAHAHAHAHA!!! @ 1:50 !!!!! Did you see that nun kick that sheet that fell from her program to the side as she walked up the nave? Priceless!
nauort23 6 months ago 12
@nauort23 like a clip from family guy with the rulers, lol
Bigbearbeau 5 months ago
Anybody notice the Pope's bodyguards?
benchkey 6 months ago
el desfile de fellini se quedó corto....
agpmyt 6 months ago
1:49 - The nun drops something!
danmanny19 7 months ago
I look forward to Her Majesty being invited to Rome as head of the Anglican church... and although I'm sure that will never happen, I'm sure you will agree that it should??
Rattywotin 7 months ago 2
Oh gosh, I forgot that the pope was Protestant before he ascended to the Papacy, so he would have spent a lot of time in Lutheran churches. Whatever.
jorobinson 7 months ago
THANKS BEEE TO GOD as this is VERILY VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU
IS A TRUE ---ANGLICAN--- ENTRANCE CLASSIC FOR PRIMATES,
PRIME MINSTERS, PRINCES AND their MUCH NEEDED entourage.
TOP FORM GOD SAVE OUR 2012 QUEEN OF GREAT BRITAIN
byronds777 7 months ago
@02Blackbeard I would never defend the political power of the pope. I am talking about the difference between me and friends who are Catholic, which is something I would rather resolve than shout about. We need to look at the distinction and understand it. The symbolism at the top is slightly less important to me (but a mere part of this distinction).
louisprosser1 7 months ago
Outstanding/Inspirational Anglican/Episcopal Organ, Choir, Arrangement, It does not get any better than this in a Church Service. Superb!
kuyawayne1 8 months ago
mi pregunta es que pensaria el papa tener que partisipar en un rito anglicano donde las mujeres como saerdotisa partisipan?
theflacostg 8 months ago
It seems to me that the line of differentiation between Anglican and Catholic is growing dim. And that is sad to me.
ambrosius 8 months ago
@ambrosius How on earth can that possibly be sad? There is one truth, and, if we journey together, mightn't we find it together? I am not saying the C of E should change its doctrines for their sake, but that I cannot see how divisions are helpful to faith.
louisprosser1 8 months ago
Why is the priest walking next to the pope wearing his abbit and why is he blessing people with the sign of the cross when the pope should be the one blessing people as they walk in to the basilica...
tsagapolu 8 months ago
A warm and genuinely respectful service of Evensong during which both leaders of their respective traditions seemed to embrace the moment. Ceremony and singing of a quality we Yanks can only wish for. Then we see the comments of trolls and malcontents of all flavors and faiths (or no faith) who must post their calumny and petty criticisms completely lacking in even a trace of Christian charity. Father, forgive them. Kudos to the Queen and Archbishop Williams for the warm welcome.
brassspitoon 11 months ago
Comment removed
amrhart87 11 months ago
haha did anyone else notice the lady drop her service sheet at 1:49?! Thanks for uploading though! :D
eveecooper 1 year ago 2
@eveecooper That is classic! She's so smooth in kicking it away, too!
CaptainWill1989 1 year ago
The British sense of humour...spend six months implying he isn't welcome and then give him a service like this! No wonder he was almost grinning with enjoyment.
Otley 1 year ago
Why anglican bishop bless the people....??? very ecumenical celebration !
Bjordan87 1 year ago
@Bjordan87 Because it is 'his abbey',also meaning disobedience to the Christ'sVicar, that is the fundamental problem of this picture, he bows to some crown and a queen or a king, not to the pontifex, all together his blessings to the people are just pointless and offensive, and to me, being a catholic,blasphemous!
dregomor 1 year ago
@dregomor I, too, am gravely offended by points of historical fact. I'd much prefer we could agree to ignore over four centuries of change in order to suit our religious sentiments.
amrhart87 11 months ago
@amrhart87 That was politics, not religion, but in fact we belong to the same Church, and believe in the same God, not kings, majesties, golden robes,and other things of this world, and it is sad but still a fact, people are being killed all over the world, just for being christians, today as same as centuries ago.
dregomor 11 months ago
@dregomor If you mean the Archbishop of Canterbury, it is not 'his Abbey'. Westminster Abbey has always, before and after the break with Rome, belonged to the Crown. The fact that you have very little grasp of the basic facts of this institution proves that you have little or no authority to voice any opinion on this topic at all.
ds1868 10 months ago
@dregomor
Read your history...and study. You are totally ignorant.
kuyawayne1 8 months ago
@Bjordan87
dregomor 1 year ago
I am glad that the pope got to hear a wonderful singing congregation and a grand organ, something very often (but not always) missing in the Roman Church. This kind of music is duplicated in all sorts of churches, large and small, among Anglicans, Lutherans, and other Protestant denominations.
jorobinson 1 year ago 19
@jorobinson FYI~My Roman Catholic Parish, Saint Raymond of Penafort, Springfield, Virginia, USA has a wonderful Adult Choir that sings many of these same songs at the 8:45AM High Mass. We have a magnificent Church built in 2006, but with "recycled" stained glass windows, taken from parishes in PA that were closed. Statues from a parish in NY State and altars from PA as well.
You should go to our website and take a tour of our beautiful parish!
Have a Blessed Lent!
MummyOXO 11 months ago
@MummyOXO @MummyOXO I looked at your web site, and the church is lovely. I may have read about it in Preservation Magazine. I like the recycling, and your church is just right for those old-fashioned stained glass windows. I am glad that your parish is musically minded. I find the music to be dismal in many parishes of all denominations, and even in the masses broadcast from the Vatican. You and I are lucky enough to be in churches with good music!
jorobinson 11 months ago
@jorobinson
It is sad that nearly every Catholic church I have been to has an aging electronic organ, small music staff, and under-trained musicians. sadly, many of the Catholic parishes are moving to the "happy clappy' music. My Presbyterian church has a brand new tracker organ, large choir, and professional musicians...along with leadership that values tradition and liturgy. I wish for my Catholic friends that the Roman church would reinvest in music. They are the ones who invented it!!
mattsplace85 7 months ago
@mattsplace85 One good reason to stop going to Mass: the abysmal standard of music in the average Catholic parish. Most stand there "stumm" rather than sing and, if they do join in, it's usually in some awful ditty from the Celebration Hymnal. This latter is a folksy songbook full of banal tunes and banal words. If you want to be uplifted, go elsewhere.
Samphire112 6 months ago
@Samphire112 You are so right. I went to a Roman Catholic mass in London last week - terrible music, organ barley audible and badly played, a Gloria where people were clapping hands, and no-one singing any of the hymns. The priest and congregation mumbled their way through the mass - and it was like a scrum at communion, and about a quarter of the church walked before the end. Such a contrast to the Anglican church nearby with beautiful traditional music and a a very reverant Sung Eucharist
foodie65 5 months ago
@Samphire112 You are so right. I went to a Roman Catholic mass in London last week - terrible music, organ barley audible and badly played, a Gloria where people were clapping hands, and no-one singing any of the hymns. The priest and congregation mumbled their way through the mass - and it was like a scrum at communion, and about a quarter of the church walked before the end. Such a contrast to the Anglican church nearby with beautiful traditional music and a a very reverant Sung Eucharist.
foodie65 5 months ago
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lichtbroeder 5 months ago
@jorobinson Hmmmm.... yeah. I'm sure that, growing up in Germany--the nation that gave us Martin Luther and Bach, the current king of the altarboys lacked the opportunity to hear Protestant choral music accompanied by a grand organ... LMFAO!!!!
nauort23 7 months ago
@nauort23 You probably do not know the rules before the 2nd Vatican Council. As a catholic, you were banned to even enter a protestant church and attending a sevice used to be a mortal sin. I would be very surprised if Ratzinger attended a protestant service in while in Germany.
catheh06 6 months ago
@catheh06 I was brought up Catholic and I know how well we all heed the warnings of the "mortal sin" category (like sex, for instance...), and I have never attended a Protestant service in my life, besides a graveside service. YET, I've heard singing coming from churches--and in recordings. Ratzinger was born in the 20th Century, btw; not the 17th.
nauort23 6 months ago
@nauort23 Wasn't he?
catheh06 6 months ago
@catheh06 Westminster Abbey isn't a 'protestant church'. The theology and liturgy of the Church of England is formally described as 'reformed catholic'. I'm sure catholics think we're 'protestant', but we don't.
ds1868 5 months ago
@ds1868 I am CofE and I consider myself rather protestant than catholic :)
catheh06 5 months ago
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@ds1868 I am CofE and I consider myself rather protestant than catholic :)
catheh06 5 months ago
@ds1868 I am CofE and I consider myself rather protestant than catholic
catheh06 5 months ago
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@ds1868 I am CofE and I consider myself rather protestant than catholic
catheh06 5 months ago
Dd any onw see one of the nuns in prossesion kick a paper out of the way at 1:51
inri120 1 year ago
I bet the pope is thinkin:g Wow we lost a lot of good real estate here in the Reformation, LOL
gregnaboy 1 year ago 26
@gregnaboy Haha!
obxemt 1 year ago
@gregnaboy Westminster Abbey has never 'belonged' to the Catholic church in a material sense in the first place. Founded by King Edgar in the tenth century, and rebuilt by King Henry III in the thirteenth century, the Abbey has always been the personal property of the Crown, and remains so to this day. The Archbishop of Canterbury has never had any juristiction over this church. Indeed, for this service to take place, the approval of the Queen was required for this service to take place.
ds1868 10 months ago
@gregnaboy : Not at all ! The Dean was explaining to the Bishop of Rome that the hymn tune was composed by Purcell one-time organist of the Abbey.
MusicPredominates 5 months ago
Awww! The Pope Looks So Happy At The Beginning. :')
coldlittle 1 year ago
... the superiority of Anglican church music ... the inferiority of the Papacy ... .
MusicPredominates 1 year ago
Political differences of the Sixteenth Century a "Protestant" does not make... However, I thought it was rather nice to let members of the "Italian Mission" take part in the service.
kingofprussia33 1 year ago
@kingofprussia33 WELL SAID! I personally don't believe the Anglican Church to be a protestant denomination but rather another branch of the Church Catholic. You have the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Anglican Communion, and Protestant Christianity.
Daniel21384 1 year ago
@Daniel21384 Abandoning historic Catholic order means one is no longer Catholic. I wouldn't consider the Anglican Communion to be Protestant simply because it is no longer recognisably Christian!
browncello 1 year ago
@browncello I don't believe that I've abandonded historic anything and you can disagree with me until you are blue in the face but that's how it is. I was raised Anglican and went to the Roman Church for five years and am now back to Anglican because I'd rather be around thinking open minded joyful people who actually want to be at mass instead of a bunch of cranky sourpusses who don't sing and bolt for the doors during the last hymn and who hate anybody who doesn't think the way that they do.
Daniel21384 1 year ago
@browncello Also, the Anglican Church is Christian whether you like it or not. Again, you can say that until you are blue in the face but you are wrong and I know over 80 million other people who agree with me..lol. I am a proud joyful Christian. I love Christ and have given my life to Him and have centered and molded my life around Christ and the sacraments. You don't know my heart so don't judge. You are probably a guiltfilled person who has not experienced joy in Christ. I will pray for you.
Daniel21384 1 year ago
@Daniel21384 My comment was not personal in nature or tone and I'd appreciate the same consideration. I made no aspersions about you or your practise of the Faith which I'm sure is quite sincere. I was commenting on the numerous theological and sacramental innovations the Anglican Communion have made over the past few decades. Abrogating 2,000 years of Apostolic Succession is a very grave thing indeed. It is adherence to that Succession that makes a church Catholic.
browncello 1 year ago
@browncello Hey, we agree on something! Abrogating 2,000 years of Apostolic Succession is a very grave thing indeed and yes that adherence makes a church Catholic and which is why I would not be able to join a protestant church. The Anglican Communion is a Catholic denomination because we as well as the Eastern Orthodox Church are a part of that 2,000 year succession in the eyes of God and a declaration by some dead Pope or a few Romans who disagree with us won't change that. :-)
Daniel21384 1 year ago
@Daniel21384 Sorry, but attempting to ordain women to the priesthood and episcopate is a breach of the historic Apostolic Succession as established by Christ himself. The Anglican Communion are alone in that innovation; both Rome and Orthodoxy hold that the Church has no authority whatsoever to alter the nature of the priesthood as instituted by our Divine Saviour. When Canterbury started laying hands on women (and embracing other theological aberrations), it ceased to be Catholic. Ciao!
browncello 1 year ago
@browncello I doubt that Christ was a sexist and treated women in a manner that makes them inferior to men. Again, something thought up by a dead pope. The body of Christ was taken down off of the cross and placed into the arms of women and women were present again at the resurrection. Women played a very important role in scripture and in our story as Christians. Chist was born of a woman, Mary our Queen. Canterbury is as Catholic as ever and bitterness from Rome won't change that. Toodles!
Daniel21384 1 year ago 2
@Daniel21384 Yes, all true about women in the NT, and JC STILL only ordained MEN as priests/ Apostles. The faith of women in the NT was more impressive than the mens' faith -agreed 100%. But JC in his wisdom desired that MEN partake in his priesthood, for reasons both known to us and some mysterious. That was consistent with the norms of only MEN being priests in the OT. There is no way around this, no matter what one wishes to believe.
MrLamontSanford 10 months ago
@browncello My comment was not personal in nature or tone and I'd appreciate the same consideration. I made no aspersions about you or your practise of the Faith which I'm sure is quite sincere. I was commenting on the numerous theological and sacramental innovations the Anglican Communion have made over the past few decades. Abrogating 2,000 years of Apostolic Succession is a very grave thing indeed. It is adherence to that Succession that makes a church Catholic.
browncello 1 year ago
The Holy Father looks as though he absolutely Loves this Protestant service!
FlyerRan 1 year ago
The Pope looks decidedly like he is troubled by gas pains through most of Morning Prayer.
TheHortonhermit 1 year ago
1:52 Good kick. Sign her up for football.
choirboyfromhell1 1 year ago
Yeah the Nuns are totally with it. Well the Bishop of Rome, invited by Her Majesty chose the stole of Leo XIII who declared Anglican Orders as "Null and Void". Successive Popes have validated their orders though gifts, but this Bull has never been rescinded.
FlyerRan 1 year ago
@FlyerRan The Bull has never been rescinded because it is true, and the Anglicans make it so, having themselves separating from Rome
MrLamontSanford 10 months ago
anyone here have spotted what happen during time 1.50 -1 .55?
superboner5 1 year ago