What would be the equivalent to 8 speedlights in terms of monolights? This is a great setup but would rather purchase something just as powerful in a compact system.
Dave posted a few more videos explaining exactly why you can't do this with a regular pack. They're the three velodrome videos on the lightwaredirect channel. It's all about mixing with the ambient.
I think that its a misnomer to imply that you can't do this with a regular pack or monolight. Yes, there are some advantages to using the small lights but if you own a battery powered big flash system you can use that as it is just as capable. keep in mind that at the time of the shoot those sb-900s were worth about $4000 total! that nearly 2 elinchrom ranger RX setups, and that is a very capable sports system. yes the speedlights are portable, but it takes a long time to set up
@ratbiker18 The Nikon flash system can sync all the way up to 1/8000 second. The drawback is, once you go past the normal 1/250 sync speed the flash switches to FP sync mode which results in a significant light loss. That's why he uses 8 flashes combined to compensate for it.
I am using a similar setup with 2 & 4 flashes combined. Using FP sync mode on SB-800/900 units is the only controlled way to use flash with shutters speeds higher than the camera's sync speed.
i am wondering why the speedlights with auto fp high speed sync and full power dont overheat and shut themself down for cooling ... but nevertheless ... extremly nice results ... think of buying some extra sb900 ;-)
those photos are beyond words, absolutely amazing, I'd love to become as good as Dave so that I can earn what he has to get any equipment he needs/wants. I'm hoping this year will be a good start to my photo business
@dportass i would say it's more about using the right equipment in these shots rather than having the skill as they are such simple angled shots using a zoom lens
how did you get your shutter speed so fast? did you say 1600th of a second? i thought even with hyper synching that you could only sync at like 1/800th?
How will 8 reach farther than 1? Even with 8, you can only get as much power as each individual flash will provide...not matter if you had 100, they will only reach so far.....7:08 proves it, though
I'm afraid you're wrong, 8 flashes will reach farther than 1. Flash power and reach are the same thing when it comes to light (inverse square law), and using 8 should give you about a 3-stop advantage over using one.
I've used 2 SB800s on a single bracket to give me a 1 stop advantage. To improve that by another stop, you'd have to double the number of SB800s and use 4. For another stop, use 8. Or be smart and get a more powerful dedicated unit like a Quadra...
How will 8 reach farther than 1? Even with 8, you can only get as much power as each individual flash will provide...not matter if you had 100, they will only reach so far
To those asking why he is doing it with speedlights and not a full monolight or pack and head system my answer is why not. He is obviously given gear from nikon and radio popper so why not see what he can do with it. Nikon loves to see this kind of stuff and nikon shooters love it as well. Look at people like Joe Mcnally and Syl Arena who are pushing the bounds of speedlights. And using their light weight and portability to their advantage.
@MrMuggsly You'd prob be surprised to know that Nikon 'gives' very little gear away. The reason many photographers are doing this is, because they can. The Nikon CLS works, and works well. Guys like Dave Tejada use nothing but Nikon flashes for their work. Clearly Dave Black is or has gone that direction as well.
@dougww1ectebow I was referring to sponsored shooters when using the word "gives". I spoke to Joe and Syl recently and I asked them both the same question about equipment and they both coyly stated they were "sent" most of their stuff from nikon/canon respectively. Now I am not sure if Dave is sponsored and should have dug deeper before responding. But is not uncommon to be "sent" gear to be used and tested in such a fashion from the big 2.
@MrMuggsly Yes, they do get a lot of stuff 'sent' to them to use and to get their feedback. It all has to go back to Nikon. The shooters are free to make videos, etc like this one. I'm not really sure if Nikon really sponsors anyone except their own factory photographers.
lots of ignorant comments in here, Dave Black is one of my original inspirations for going with the CLS system, its great to see him here years later still pushing these flashes way beyond what many photographers could see them doing. Props to this excellent photographer and teacher.
I really don't know much of this guy's work and he seems pretty good but he has a few things to learn about action sports. Between watching this an the motocross video he doesn't really seem to get it. Lots of tight crops and few reference points. I also don't get why he groups the flashes A and B, the light is effectively one source. why would you want to change the power on only half of the lights? 15k of gear here, why not just use a scoro pack and a sport reflector? It's in the same $ range
@JHorvathCinema Dave is a world renowned sports photographer and I don't think he has much to learn about sports photography, but probably has a lot to teach about it. Maybe you should check his web site before making such an asinine judgement. As far as why he is breaking it into two groups, it's a demo. He explains exactly why he does it in the video. Maybe you should also pay more attention to the video to understand the 'why' of it. Also, 8 SB-900's are about 1/3 the cost you quote.
I was talking to another photog about this - since he is using 8 units at full power why not use 16 at 1/2 and get twice the recycle time. Then we took it to extremes and said why not use 1024 of them on 1/128th power.
I shot on over to the Myth Busters forum on the Discovery channel's website and proposed that they test it. After answering some questions it became obvious that the best way to test it would be with 1 SB at full power vs 128 of them at 1/128th power.
I would get really annoyed having that flash go off every time I try to catch a wave, not even a thank you to the surfers at the end. I wonder if he spoke to them. I don't mind people taking photos of me skating as long as they don't get in the way and that they send me a copy for myself.
Well I think it would be easier to just plug one quadra into a battery pack and go, in stead of combining two x-mounts to bolt together 8 speedlights with 32 penlight batteries and two different triggering systems. But maybe that's just me.
Also, high speed sync is nice but _as long as the flash is powerful enough_ it doesn't really matter with this level of ambient. He could have just lowered the ISO and upped the flash power to get the same ambient exposure at 1/250th - with less noise too!
Thanks but I'm not trying to be smart here. The thing I said about high speed sync is just basic exposure; every photographer knows this. Dave Black enjoys doing odd things with lots of speedlights. That's cool and he gets a lot of exposure from it (pun intended), but for other photographers there are cheaper and easier ways. I just thought I'd share.
I completely agree with you yumama, you can use more flashes at full power to extend the effective range (stop), like you say the inverse square law, or use more flashes on lower power to reach the same distance as a single flash on full power but with much faster recycle times.
As for shooting faster than 1/250, the key benefit of that is freezing very fast movement, especially water, at 1/250 very fast action, even under a single flash can blur.
Very true. Unless you're nuking all the ambient, the sunlight will give you some ghosting even at 1/250th with action this fast. This can actually look quite nice, but if you want a clean imag you're going to have to get rid of it and then you need high sync speeds.
why not just use a better beamer on camera? then you only need 1 flash
LowCountryWild 1 week ago
Ok... So let's buy some eight SB-900.
MrVDSE 2 months ago 2
@MrVDSE only like 4 grand in lights alone.... no big deal........
LowCountryWild 1 week ago
That's awesome.
MSmatt76 2 months ago
Dave Black is unarguably one of the best photographers of all-time.
stevedensmore 5 months ago
I took a couple of classes from Dave at Photoshopworld last week. He is impressive
Ron Paulk
crpaulk 5 months ago
why special thanks to canon ?
GoPlayer1248 7 months ago 2
Can i ask how you trigger all these flashes? I have five speedlites currently and have spent a fortune on buying individual receivers
downtoearthwithben 9 months ago
They get worse near the end
aiwayamaha 9 months ago
What would be the equivalent to 8 speedlights in terms of monolights? This is a great setup but would rather purchase something just as powerful in a compact system.
mandochiko 10 months ago
Dave posted a few more videos explaining exactly why you can't do this with a regular pack. They're the three velodrome videos on the lightwaredirect channel. It's all about mixing with the ambient.
ratbiker18 1 year ago
@ratbiker18
I think that its a misnomer to imply that you can't do this with a regular pack or monolight. Yes, there are some advantages to using the small lights but if you own a battery powered big flash system you can use that as it is just as capable. keep in mind that at the time of the shoot those sb-900s were worth about $4000 total! that nearly 2 elinchrom ranger RX setups, and that is a very capable sports system. yes the speedlights are portable, but it takes a long time to set up
JHorvathCinema 6 months ago
@JHorvathCinema But how fast can you really sync? You are correct in the cost comparison. But can you really sync a ranger at 1/2000th?
ratbiker18 6 months ago
@ratbiker18 The Nikon flash system can sync all the way up to 1/8000 second. The drawback is, once you go past the normal 1/250 sync speed the flash switches to FP sync mode which results in a significant light loss. That's why he uses 8 flashes combined to compensate for it.
I am using a similar setup with 2 & 4 flashes combined. Using FP sync mode on SB-800/900 units is the only controlled way to use flash with shutters speeds higher than the camera's sync speed.
videodaddy99 4 months ago
i am wondering why the speedlights with auto fp high speed sync and full power dont overheat and shut themself down for cooling ... but nevertheless ... extremly nice results ... think of buying some extra sb900 ;-)
aquitas 1 year ago
@aquitas They probably will if you shoot like a machine gun. If you let it rest for a second every couple shot there is no problem.
ratbiker18 1 year ago
Sun on a stick!
AntiDipshit 1 year ago
Sun on a stick!
AntiDipshit 1 year ago
those photos are beyond words, absolutely amazing, I'd love to become as good as Dave so that I can earn what he has to get any equipment he needs/wants. I'm hoping this year will be a good start to my photo business
dportass 1 year ago
@dportass i would say it's more about using the right equipment in these shots rather than having the skill as they are such simple angled shots using a zoom lens
aiwayamaha 9 months ago
how did you get your shutter speed so fast? did you say 1600th of a second? i thought even with hyper synching that you could only sync at like 1/800th?
volvo74089 1 year ago
Cool whats possible when you can afford to drop $22,000 on equipment...
I'll admit, I'm green with envy, but I'm also completely inspired to try something similar for myself.
XCSlayer 1 year ago
So viel zum Thema künstliche Sonne ;)
vreesh 1 year ago
How will 8 reach farther than 1? Even with 8, you can only get as much power as each individual flash will provide...not matter if you had 100, they will only reach so far.....7:08 proves it, though
iflynething 1 year ago
@iflynething
I'm afraid you're wrong, 8 flashes will reach farther than 1. Flash power and reach are the same thing when it comes to light (inverse square law), and using 8 should give you about a 3-stop advantage over using one.
I've used 2 SB800s on a single bracket to give me a 1 stop advantage. To improve that by another stop, you'd have to double the number of SB800s and use 4. For another stop, use 8. Or be smart and get a more powerful dedicated unit like a Quadra...
yumamasoncrack 1 year ago
How will 8 reach farther than 1? Even with 8, you can only get as much power as each individual flash will provide...not matter if you had 100, they will only reach so far
iflynething 1 year ago
FUnny how he's using Nikon gears and the credit goes to Canon USA at the end!
nizesa 1 year ago
Wow....makes me feel really lame with my measly little T2i...
boogalice 1 year ago
i think he changed to the 400 2.8
lorikzzz 1 year ago
Very clever, nice work.
:o)
Alexvideoclip 1 year ago
What an excellent photographer he is!! Never thought the flash would reach that far!!
stanegg0 1 year ago
Couldn't you use 1 Big Monolight, say an AB-800 or 1600 to acheive this.. but anyways, kool experiment- he sure got gear...
tw06le 1 year ago
To those asking why he is doing it with speedlights and not a full monolight or pack and head system my answer is why not. He is obviously given gear from nikon and radio popper so why not see what he can do with it. Nikon loves to see this kind of stuff and nikon shooters love it as well. Look at people like Joe Mcnally and Syl Arena who are pushing the bounds of speedlights. And using their light weight and portability to their advantage.
MrMuggsly 1 year ago
@MrMuggsly You'd prob be surprised to know that Nikon 'gives' very little gear away. The reason many photographers are doing this is, because they can. The Nikon CLS works, and works well. Guys like Dave Tejada use nothing but Nikon flashes for their work. Clearly Dave Black is or has gone that direction as well.
dougww1ectebow 1 year ago
@dougww1ectebow I was referring to sponsored shooters when using the word "gives". I spoke to Joe and Syl recently and I asked them both the same question about equipment and they both coyly stated they were "sent" most of their stuff from nikon/canon respectively. Now I am not sure if Dave is sponsored and should have dug deeper before responding. But is not uncommon to be "sent" gear to be used and tested in such a fashion from the big 2.
MrMuggsly 1 year ago
@MrMuggsly Yes, they do get a lot of stuff 'sent' to them to use and to get their feedback. It all has to go back to Nikon. The shooters are free to make videos, etc like this one. I'm not really sure if Nikon really sponsors anyone except their own factory photographers.
dougww1ectebow 1 year ago
lots of ignorant comments in here, Dave Black is one of my original inspirations for going with the CLS system, its great to see him here years later still pushing these flashes way beyond what many photographers could see them doing. Props to this excellent photographer and teacher.
senencito 1 year ago
I really don't know much of this guy's work and he seems pretty good but he has a few things to learn about action sports. Between watching this an the motocross video he doesn't really seem to get it. Lots of tight crops and few reference points. I also don't get why he groups the flashes A and B, the light is effectively one source. why would you want to change the power on only half of the lights? 15k of gear here, why not just use a scoro pack and a sport reflector? It's in the same $ range
JHorvathCinema 1 year ago
@JHorvathCinema Dave is a world renowned sports photographer and I don't think he has much to learn about sports photography, but probably has a lot to teach about it. Maybe you should check his web site before making such an asinine judgement. As far as why he is breaking it into two groups, it's a demo. He explains exactly why he does it in the video. Maybe you should also pay more attention to the video to understand the 'why' of it. Also, 8 SB-900's are about 1/3 the cost you quote.
dougww1ectebow 1 year ago
@Dom - oops, you're right. I was attempting to say "twice as fast". Thanks for the correction!
SchmutzCompany 1 year ago
Quite a nice effect! Looks very good, well done. Never would guess they were shot in that light.
sovietspyguy 1 year ago
I was talking to another photog about this - since he is using 8 units at full power why not use 16 at 1/2 and get twice the recycle time. Then we took it to extremes and said why not use 1024 of them on 1/128th power.
I shot on over to the Myth Busters forum on the Discovery channel's website and proposed that they test it. After answering some questions it became obvious that the best way to test it would be with 1 SB at full power vs 128 of them at 1/128th power.
SchmutzCompany 1 year ago
@SchmutzCompany you mean at half the recycling time.
Dombowerphoto 1 year ago
Eight square... yeah, it makes a lot of sense since it's a circle...
mrvlhs 1 year ago 2
buy a bigger flash and look at the picture from A.Leibovitz.
almanza.nl
Almanzajj 1 year ago
I would get really annoyed having that flash go off every time I try to catch a wave, not even a thank you to the surfers at the end. I wonder if he spoke to them. I don't mind people taking photos of me skating as long as they don't get in the way and that they send me a copy for myself.
masteradaam 1 year ago
@masteradaam They probably did not even notice. 30 meters away? Too focused on surfing the wave IMHO.
photographe06 1 year ago
What's up with the Canon thanks when he's strapped to the rim with Nikon gear???
lowcrust 1 year ago
Not to be a hater because a few of these shots were really good. On the other hand, did it seem like most of them were out of focus?
Just saying.
skeeveskeeve 1 year ago
that is very impressive! great looking shots the darker ones (later) are imense!
Dombowerphoto 1 year ago
Well I think it would be easier to just plug one quadra into a battery pack and go, in stead of combining two x-mounts to bolt together 8 speedlights with 32 penlight batteries and two different triggering systems. But maybe that's just me.
Also, high speed sync is nice but _as long as the flash is powerful enough_ it doesn't really matter with this level of ambient. He could have just lowered the ISO and upped the flash power to get the same ambient exposure at 1/250th - with less noise too!
yumamasoncrack 1 year ago
@yumamasoncrack
well if you know so much you make your own video
ocdap 1 year ago
@ocdap
Thanks but I'm not trying to be smart here. The thing I said about high speed sync is just basic exposure; every photographer knows this. Dave Black enjoys doing odd things with lots of speedlights. That's cool and he gets a lot of exposure from it (pun intended), but for other photographers there are cheaper and easier ways. I just thought I'd share.
yumamasoncrack 1 year ago
@yumamasoncrack
I completely agree with you yumama, you can use more flashes at full power to extend the effective range (stop), like you say the inverse square law, or use more flashes on lower power to reach the same distance as a single flash on full power but with much faster recycle times.
As for shooting faster than 1/250, the key benefit of that is freezing very fast movement, especially water, at 1/250 very fast action, even under a single flash can blur.
dportass 1 year ago
@dportass
Very true. Unless you're nuking all the ambient, the sunlight will give you some ghosting even at 1/250th with action this fast. This can actually look quite nice, but if you want a clean imag you're going to have to get rid of it and then you need high sync speeds.
yumamasoncrack 1 year ago
Would have been cheaper and easier to just get an Elinchrom Ranger Quadra...
yumamasoncrack 1 year ago
@yumamasoncrack would be only cheaper, not easier but you can't go over sync speed with strobes.
gilegraam 1 year ago
time for me to find a new job
Artbbdax 1 year ago
Jigawattseconds of beautiful light !
emforty2 1 year ago
wow unbelievable great images!
arkenstone 1 year ago
WOW - A clear example of getting above that 250th sec
mxdadNZ 1 year ago