Economics,the Social Order,and the Ron Paul Revolution

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[residentzombie]

Did you touch on the fact that John Locke (the father of liberalism) is in fact in today's standards considered a libertarian? The old Republicans were all liberalists and the Federalists were socialists/statists. I think alot of self proclaimed liberals would stop there ignorance and research more about libertarianism if they understood that libertarianism was (and in my opinion still is) liberalism.

[asdfgasdfasdful]

awesome

[Surhotchaperchlorome]

Which school of economics do you subscribe to?

[JP2times2007]

Markets and capitalism only make sense if you believe in the law of scarcity: unlimited wants in a finite world. But because libertarian economics is based on extreme methodlogical individualism, they cant understand that a) wants are socially produced and not inherent and b) we live in abundance not scarcity. Far from being a 'law', scarcity is socially produced through burning crops (brazil/coffee). It should be called hte 'policy' of scarcity. Menger, Hayek's love, called for impose scrcity.

[eyeQ1945]

You assume unlimited wants in a finite world. What's wrong with your picture? Think about it.

[Aspetta17]

Basically collectivism works for people who want to be a part of something. It works best in a state as participatory democracy.

Okay I already know you think I'm a dumb &/or ignorant fool - no need to reply because we don't see eye to eye

Bye :)

[Aspetta17]

I stand corrected on the last comment LoL

I'm sure we both have better things to do - so just one last thing about game theory: and collectivism:

They ARE directly related to each other.

Game theory MATHEMATICALLY expresses strategies among TWO OR MORE players (POPULATIONS).

Collectivism promotes itself as the best SOLUTION for POPULATIONS to coexist. Collectivism speaks to the Nash Equilibrium (forego win-lose in your favor -Individualist- for a win-win (you + group)

[carcabe]

Government is force and control. It is not reason, compassion or cooperation. It is a destroying fire.

It destroys the natural social ecology.

Freedom will not produce the perfect world. Just the best possible world.

[cosmeticnerd]

capitalism is not perfect but it is better than communism.

however i don't follow ideology. i find a lot of people whine, bitch & moan too much when gov is too big or too small. how about an efficient gov regardless of its size?

btw, ron paul is overrated.

[stealthswimmer]

efficient government is nice but it's extremely rare. Plus, the more government does that it shouldn't be doing, the more inefficient it gets at things it's supposed to do (military, police, courts)

[oiuoiu988]

governments are coercive monopolies, they lack a feedback mechanism to signal effiency. therefore they cannot be efficient.

[Aspetta17]

See - I just disagree LOL. I think OUR CURRENT government is a coercive monopoly - but government, as far as what it IS, is the common arm of a civil society. And a democratic government will turn into a coercive monopoly when the citzenry abandon their values of civility and participatory politics. Thus "the price of freedom is eternal vigilence" we must PARTICIPATE. We can't expect to get any more out of the social contract than we are willing to put into it - like any relationship.

[oiuoiu988]

its not some opinion you can take or leave, its a fact, government is by its nature coercive and it is monopolistic. its a monopoly on force, its a monopoly on monopolies, in a given area. thats what a state is. its not really up for debate. your argument is for democracy, which i view as "rule by the media".

[stealthswimmer]

I basically agree with that, lol. I think it's POSSIBLE for them to come up with an efficient program....but like you said, it has no feedback mechanism and therefore is highly unlikely to remain efficient for long, and while a single program may be efficient for a time, a government in general isn't efficient.

[oiuoiu988]

under conditions of perfect liberty, free markets lead to perfect equality.

[cosmeticnerd]

lmao, nothings perfect in life not even liberty. there has not been a single country that even come close to ron paul's views & never will be. im not cynical, just being realistic.

free markets= opportunity to be rich, it never leads to perfect equality. no ideology/theory is ever perfect.

[oiuoiu988]

r. paul's "views"are exactly what this country was founded on, and exactly what the french revolution was about.iceland and ireland are 2 examples of STATELESS societies in history but nobody ever told you that in government schools,what a surprise!by saying your being "realistic" youre basically saying you think we have no chance of getting out from under the people who are holding us down so you make a prediction based on what you think WILL happen instead of worrying about what SHOULD happen.

[Aspetta17]

Wait wait wait - ANCIENT Ireland and ANCIENT Iceland WERE 2 examples of stateless societies. This country was founded on Principles of Democracy which were Revolutionary PRECISELY BECAUSE OF THE CONTEXT of the political climate that they were adopted under. That's NOT to say that the lessons and founding principles of the Revolution are irrelevant today - not at all. What I AM saying is that you cannot pretend that the game hasn't changed since ANCIENT times or even since the Revolution.

[Aspetta17]

Basically The Constitution was successful because the founding fathers were able to look at the ANCIENT GREEK PRINCIPLES of Democracy and APPLY THEM to the context of the day. In essence, the American Revolution was actually an EVOLUTION of the Ancient Greek theory of Democracy.

The next real "Revolution" in America will be the same: It will be an EVOLUTION of what we already know. It will be a distillation of salient logic from past societal models APPLIED to the context of "TODAY".

[Aspetta17]

As far as Context:

Independence, Competition, Growth and Expansion - this is how "The West was Won", so to speak. But that was then & this is now. We have to deal with the natural conclusion of expansion and settlement: Globalization. IT'S A DIFFERENT GAME: The world is more populated than it has ever been - our economies are much more sophisticated and complex than they were in ancient times. Our species must now learn the principles of COEXISTENCE in order to deal with INTERDEPENDENT REALITY.

[oiuoiu988]

i agree. this doesnt disagree with anything i said. if youre trying to say that COEXISTENCE and INTERDEPENDENT REALITY are somehow dependant on collectivist ideology i would disagree

[Aspetta17]

It's the other way around!!! Collectivist ideology acknowledges INTERDEPENDENT REALITY and presents itself as the best way for a population to CO-EXIST. from wiki: Collectivism is defined as people emphasizing the INTERDEPENDENCE of every human on some collective group, and the priority of group goals over individual goals.

Collectivism is the starting point of Democratic theory!

[oiuoiu988]

haha, then why would you mention game theory if you are a collectivist?? you really have no idea what youre talking about to you? you must not understand game theory one bit. not surprising.

[oiuoiu988]

the constitution was obviously not successful, the founding fathers believed in limited government and look what we have now. i agree with your 2nd paragraph there.

[Aspetta17]

the constitution was not successful because we, the citizenry, since the country was founded, have FAILED TO LIVE UP TO IT.

Until the founding principles of the Constitution (freedom and democracy) become part of EVERY individual's personal code of ethics (or at least THE MAJORITY), we will not see the vision that the founding fathers become a reality.

[oiuoiu988]

evertyhing im talking about is in the last 1000 years, thats not ANCIENT. and im not saying stateless society is ron paul's view. and youre wrong about CONTEXT, it was because of their respect for FREEDOM and the emergent nature of order, just like darwin. are you a creationist too????

[Aspetta17]

You're a jumpy little thing aren't you LOL "Are you a creationist too"???

NO :) I respect Freedom, but I also respect LOGIC (game theory - where your best decision is made within CONTEXT of everyone else also making their best decision).

Look, context is extremely important - I stand by it. And if you really want to know, I AM anarchist at heart, I believe the epitomy of civility IS ANARCHY. I just have a different opinion about how, and how fast, humanity will "get there".

[oiuoiu988]

game theory - where your best decision is made within CONTEXT of everyone else also making their best decision PROVIDING ALL PARTIES ARE ACTING ON BEHALF OF THEIR OWN SELF INTEREST.

[Aspetta17]

Again you have it BACKWARDS. To be making YOUR best decision IS EQUIVALENT TO acting on behalf of your own self-interest.

This is what I tell the Randian-Libertarians: if there's no such thing as altruism and everything is SELF-ISHLY BASED then what you're railing against is just people being misinformed into making bad decisions,

[Aspetta17]

people not being educated enough to make their best decisions, or people not being motivated enough to make their best decisions. That's completely different from saying that collectivism DOES NOT ALLOW people to make their best decisions. In fact, Collectivism is the reason we have public education - that was a HUGE STEP forward in this country!

[Aspetta17]

Oh and one more thing about the emergent Nature of Order LoL:

As far as evolution: It's based off of adaptation - which requires concious awareness of the environment (it's game theory!).

Now as far as the emergent nature of order of inanimate matter LoL where do you think the INBORN instinct of survival comes from? Survival is the law of conservation of energy. What about reproduction? transformation of energy.

Either conciousness springs out of nowhere (like MAGIC) or it's everywhere

[oiuoiu988]

funny how you see game theory in evolution but it doesnt seem like youve found the connection in economics yet. have you read ludwig von mises? i am an anarchist (although i dont like the term), any system of government or government program you propose will provoke the same question, is it voluntary?on this page you stated, "I think OUR CURRENT government is a coercive monopoly - but government, as far as what it IS, is the common arm of a civil society." but youre secretly an anarchist right?

[Aspetta17]

Yes it's voluntary - if you don't like it you can go pitch a tent in the woods LOL You might call that coersion but the lesson is this: you can't get something for nothing. You can't get what collectivism offers unless you are willing to contribute. You can't get any more out of the social contract than what you're willing to put into it. It's a RELATIONSHIP. If my boyfriend and I can't find a way to live together HE CAN LEAVE LoL. That's not coercion that's just the nature of RELATIONSHIPS

[oiuoiu988]

so moronic. youre treading on waters of ignorance usually reserved for marxists.

[cosmeticnerd]

this has nothing to do with school. you are getting off topic.

i was referring to his libertarians views

you are being paranoid buddy. our country HAS ONLY GOTTEN BETTER OVERTIME)not worst & i dont believe it will ever get worst . funny how our country became better even without ron paul's "ideals."

lol, founded on, yet another superficial statement from let me guess? a white male. keep in mind there were native people on this land who were persecuted for "civilization"

[oiuoiu988]

wow, are you out of your mind or just really ignorant? the founding fathers were ALL libertarians. so, like thomas jefferson, were in favor of the states governing themselves, they were called republicans, and some, like john adams, believed in the benefits of centralized federal government, they were called federalists. you are confusing the concepts of government and country in your explanation of how our country isnt getting worst. youre ignorant. i taught you something. now go read something

[Aspetta17]

Damn LOL I'm not out of my mind or really ignorant - but I'm not sure about you LoL I'm FUSING not CONFUSING the concepts of government and country because THEY OVERLAP. Especially in the areas that explain why the country "isn't getting worst". LoL

[oiuoiu988]

i hope you realize i was making fun of someone else on this page saying "isnt getting worst" (see above comments) when i said it and once again you make an ass out of yourself by copying me. and now youre confusing the the concepts of FUSING and PERVERTING or perhaps misunderstanding. the guy who kept saying worst instead of worse is the guy who was confusing country and state. keep goin though, ur utter lack of understanding of game theory is amusing to me.

[oiuoiu988]

not interested in responding to racism in the last paragraph. keep in mind, at least SOME of those natives were paid to move to oklahoma and went willingly.

[cosmeticnerd]

lol, its not racism. its called perspective

[oiuoiu988]

well im willing to meet in the middle and call it "perspective thats based on race" and i will still refuse to participate in that kind of silliness. if you want to have some conversation with me based on racial innequities and what i think of the matter, go ahead and send me a message about it.

[cosmeticnerd]

okay would it be better if i said it is more of a christian male's perspective? a little sensitive arent we? my statement was not an insult but from a sociological standpoint. we can end it here.

[oiuoiu988]

im not christian, and no its not "better" youre looking to make generalizations that have little to do with what im talking about. now if you said "american's perspective" that might be relevant.

[Aspetta17]

My problem with the RP Revolution is what he said in the beginning: "as long as they don't harm anyone else, or property, or cheat on their contract" - That's just naive.. you can't use that to justify deregulation. How bout instead of incessant regulation to deal with immediate issues, we create like a universal codified set of ethics for commerce (in order to curb and prevent PREVENT unscrupulous activity in the market). Problems caused by ethics violations can be taken to court. Yes, No?

[oiuoiu988]

no, unless you can figure out a way to make a rule against breaking all the other rules... lemme know.

[jazzmangiant]

I know how you people don't like to think that exploitation exists (I know, even you think you're stupid). Communism is bad, but so is capitalism. Economic systems are by nature flawed because flawed people created them. So we either have everyone failing, or a few getting rich from exploitation. Yeah, its the lesser of two evils, but it is still evil.

[BIackOp]

Capitalism is not bad. You just have a bad viewpoint in what it truly means. Save and under Consume is Capitalism. Just because someone is more wealthy doesn't mean this person has more authority over you. The opposite is true if they are interacting in the market place. The only evil is when people are prevented from competing, prevented from boycotted, and finding other means to get by. Voluntary Mutual Exchange is key, if there is anything Involuntary it comes from the State.

[jazzmangiant]

Just cause someone is more wealthy doesn't mean they have authority over you? Are you kidding. Do you not see the stupidity of what you say? The entire boss worker system is based on that. Our governing system is based on that. Our corporate system is based on that. You really either have no idea what the world actually is (must be sheltered by your theories and statistics), or you are just trying to enforce a belief that doesn't truly exist.

[BIackOp]

No I am not kidding, When you have a business you are investing your money into it, if you fuck the people, fuck the workers, piss off the community, what makes you think you will still keep your wealth?

The State is involuntary through taxation, no matter the job. We have to sit on our asses for the next 4 years to get some other loser in office, but there is no real incentive to help the country. Rare integrity of principle is the foundation to keep a tolerable Government..

[oiuoiu988]

no one is trying to enforce anything, the video is about freedom.

[jazzmangiant]

I guess this how you think when you hop on the unwinnable bandwagon of the Ron Paul Revolution. Dr. No doesn't do much for this country.

[BIackOp]

Because he is one vote versus the rest most the time... nothing much one can do when the rest of Congress is full of fucking morons. You have no standing to say he doesn't try when most his legislation is shut down. Although, HR 1207 is picking up speed. And "winning" is second to Principle.

[BIackOp]

And its not everyone fails, you have a right to fail and a right to succeed. You interfere with that and you introduce monopolies. Failing comes when demands are not met, whether it be customer care or the goods involved. If everything is adequate then both parties will improve their standings which also benefits the community in some way. Our technology base comes from the Free Market, locks on the door, electricity in the home, refrigerators for your food.

[jazzmangiant]

Hey you are dumb. The FDA and other regulatory agencies was created because capitalism wasn't staying in its bounds like you want. It will never stay in its bounds because most people are greedy and or dumb. Learn some actual humanity, statistics and theory doesn't work.

[BIackOp]

But the only way they can take advantage of people through the means of a monopoly is by an involuntary force, the State. People self regulate the market by their own interests, far better than some bureaucrats milking the system to suit their needs. Most Regulation from the Government is just Fascism.

The Free Market is Math and Science, authority by the people, the majority, natural from the bottom-up.

[jazzmangiant]

Yes the free market is math and science but the social world is math and science. Shit happens because people are imperfect. The free market is imperfect because its created by people (there wasn't always a free market). And when people want power they will exploit the less educated. The free market is a trial and error device. How can you know without regulation if a insurance company is bad? Well, you have to have it fuck you over first. Its trial and error, and inefficient method.

[BIackOp]

Actually the Free Market is more regulated than what the Government could ever offer you. Each person is a regulator. Fuck with one, the word will spread. Everyone will have a need, and if their demands are not met, consequences occur.

[BIackOp]

It is action-reaction based. People don't just sit there and bend over for the fucking over, if you want to get blunt about it. Screw me? And I'll get you back one way or the other.. That is why I said Reputation is one of the biggest factors. People will not tolerance bullshit especially when it costs them too much for shitty service. Competition is key.

[BIackOp]

Trail and Error happens whether you like it or not. The system is imperfect, nothing is perfect. The question is.. are you willing to have the Government do that? Or the People.. If you say the Government, then you should be just happy with the current system. I rather have the people decide for themselves, instead of some elitist snobs who milk the people through involuntary taxation with no real incentive to help us ever.

[jazzmangiant]

Whatever. History shows that your little theories don't work as well as you wish.

[BIackOp]

Quite the opposite actually.

watch?v=JhF3VcBJOEg

[budda10000]

Im a free market guy all the way but what exactly does licensing requirements for doctors have to do with free market? A man CAN easily lie about his credentials in order to convince you to let him treat you. I suppose that if he maims you that eventually he will run out of customers but at the cost of many botched operations. Free market without oversight is a crap shoot. Gov. only role should be to ensure a safe and law biding marketplace such as ensuring authenticity of professionals..

[BIackOp]

Reputation is one of the biggest factors in the market.

[budda10000]

Yea well if you had ever been in business you would know it is not always easy to ensure someone has a good "reputation" as you put it. The least i can ask of the marketplace when it comes to doctors is to know they went to medical school and have maintained a practice without routinely maiming people. Reputation is important but in itself inadequate in certain professions.

[BIackOp]

Usually because Government is the middle man, insurance companies also, and there is no real competition in the medical world..

[desertfrog64]

i was getting depresed cuz of all the stress i was feelin at home, had a poor credit score and the number would haunt me where evere i go, so i moved to a place where i thought nobody would care i just wish sumbody had told me that place was a rennisance fair

[losplatosdemaria]

The next step in the Revolution is setting up a continental congress. This is underway:wethepeoplecongress(D­OT)org.

[paddioche]

cool book, hope it sells lots:)

[Gilla1ness]

The other day I heard of a plan to turn toward a scientifically managed,resource based economy????

[j0hnwi11iams]

Economics is a difficult subject, one that you have yet to master. Capitalism produces private wealth, not common wealth, turning it into a vast waste receptacle for everything the private sector wants to disown. People like you portray the market in an idealized sense completely glossing over the mechanics and how that related to time and survival. You also portray the market as statistically chaotic when market participants tend to force the market into greater order and synchronization.

[Hopeful71]

It's not that I believe in government or believe capitalism doesn't work, it does. But like anything involving imperfect humans it has its limits & flaws. Mainly greed & limited resources without regulation lead to only one conclusion.

So simple basic regulations to temper the power is the only sane way to keep a capitalistic society from become a feudal system.

Does the government try to overplay that hand? Certainly. There is NO nirvana & never will be. We must always be vigilant

[siebelseibel76]

Yeah corporations, right?

[internetaccount122]

Vote Ralph Nader.

[debtlifer]

Your video is interesting but requires a steady dose of reality.

Question: given freedom from government regulation, as you suggest, would the malicious and greedy moderate their vulgar behaviour?

Yes or no?

If there is no government oversight, then child pornography, black-markets would become white markets, police would become small privatized armies and so on.

You have not read Thomas Hobbes.

I respect your opinons, but you must get a better grasp of human nature.

[truthadvocate]

debtlifer, Child pornography violates the rights of a human being. Libertarianism means limited government, not abolishing government. Libertarians believe in law. Even Anarchists believe in free market courts. So a limited Libertarian government would punish child pornography. "Police as privatized armies" I support the vast majority of police. They have a very difficult and dangerous job. But do you think government prevents corruption? You also need a reality check.

[jccdenton]

well said truthadvocate

[junior00bacon00chee]

haha economic understanding! beautiful. keep up the good fight for humanity!

[lloyddaroyd]

My Friend knows this Guy! he's Pretty Smart

[johan28]

Democracy is the regulating force in the free market. This interaction between a social element and the free market is the invisible hand. If you remove the democracy that regulate the free market, the free market will no longer support the common good. How can an economy driven by self interest support the common good? If we removed the justice system, including the police authorities, can we depend on the people to police themselves??

[karlharleman]

Your claim demands a longer answer than youtube will allow me to give you here but you're wrong in your assumption. Look around you; who has contributed most to your well being, voluntary cooperation (market) or force and threats of violence (government)? My sister told me today that she got fired because her employed couldn't afford to pay her the minimum wage of a one year employment, instead he hired someone new. I think we could do without such policy.

[karlharleman]

"If we removed the justice system, including the police authorities, can we depend on the people to police themselves?"

The police could probably be privatised, however the judicial system probably could not.

[spanishaustralian]

i read the book and its brilliant. its like austrian economics explained so simply and beautifully. thank you sir i enjoyed it.

[ledia84k]

George. Send me a book man, lol. Gary

[Zhuangyao]

good comments

[Renegen1]

I want to know, what profession do you have? It's interesting that you have these economic videos because myself very good in economics I rejected the libertarian ideas. I used to believe in them, but now I have rejected them. I think selective regulation is good, my conclusions came from empirical evidence against ideologies. I could try to convince you on most points, but I'd like to hear your deep reasoning behind your beliefs.

[ledia84k]

I agree with you that selective regulation is necessary. I believe George agrees with that principle as well. However to claim that you are good in economics, thus you have the answer is a bit presumptive don't you think? Truth be told, capitalism in its truest form has never been practiced for an extended period of time, so you couldn't possibly have a scientific conclusion.

[junior00bacon00chee]

regulation is possible in the free market, but there is no place for compulsory regulation based upon political currents. What a backwards idea.

[spanishaustralian]

read the book nordstrom its a great read. its "temp" here. i cant recomend this book enough. ill donate to the alex jones alternative news money bomb thats for sure. so should everyone.

[SupaDrill]

religion is a problem, y don't u say it. its ok to be spritually free but u can't be, b/c u might be a terrorist right!! u kno like i kno that religion in itself demonizes critical thinking. u said it yourself in less words, interlectually americans are dumber now then earlier in its history. mainly due to the public school system which doesn't pass on 1st hand knowledge rather much repress critical thinking thus to producing wat the gov't wants- employees who need PHDs & other EXPERTS 4 help

[spanishaustralian]

brilliant book i loved it.

[capitalistworld]

Thanks!

[Remic08]

Right on!

[d3th2u]

Good stuff. Your brain seems to work just like mine. crazy. Might have to buy your book.

[capitalistworld]

Thanks for comment. I think similar lemons/ideas that makes sense begin spreading through many brains, and before you know it, many of us begin making similar lemonade. I hope I am making sense here.

[uhaegde]

But one thing troubles me. That thing is called subversion by the Elites. They will do thier utmost to stifle and destroy the Libertarian Dream. Just look at the hurdles Andrew Jackson (who might I add was a Democrat) had to jump to get rid of the First National Bank of the United States. And Andrew Jackson did this of his own Integrity and Free Will. Now look at the sheeple today, how much more of a struggle this will be!!!

[uhaegde]

We need an understanding of economics. BINGO!!! That is the key...

[Johnhoulgate]

Love your spirit. Way to go.

[theroseofsharon47]

I have been trying to do what I am able for the Ron Paul presidential campaign. The economy is really in bad shape. Suzy Ormond was talking on Ellen about the housing market.

[theroseofsharon47]

She said to wait to buy housing if and only if you can get a great buy. Many markets are in a steep housing decline. Ms. Ormand said that we should buy only if someone is loosing their butt. I find that quite sad!

I am curious about where we are getting the $ for this Economic stimulus payments from our George Bush? Where is he getting the money? Is the U.S. Government already in debt? Am I correct that this is only going to backlash into increased inflation?