Senator Tom Coburn Talks About Puerto Rico

[LOSMATALIGALIVE]

I did not hear anyone applauding . . .

[ttiiyy]

If the US does not want to give up PR, the statehood issue will be around forever.

Nobody wants to talk about the money issue. But paying taxes is one responsibility that nobody should avoid!

[MTPatriot1787]

Why is this bill presenting only 2 of 3 options? Option 1. Become a state. Option 2. Declare independence and remove all ties with the US and be responsible for your own defense, care , et al

What happened to Option 3??? Maintain the status quo. Why are they trying to put this bill out there to force the Puerto Ricans to make a choice when all of the choices are not represented?

Anyone who doesnt see there are anterior motives involved in this bill are blind to the facts.

[ajv51]

@MTPatriot1787 The bill actually does provide the current territorial status as an option in the first round of voting. In any case, an amendment was approved providing for the territorial status to appear once again as an option in the second round, even if it's rejected in the first round.

[Tabooga65]

@MTPatriot1787 Becuase they know the people of PR want the status Quo and that is not what the power brokers want. This is about more leftiest power not giving the people of PR what they want.

[MTPatriot1787]

One of the key issues that I haven't seen any of you commenting here raise is that 2.5 million Puerto Rico born US citizens that are now living somewhere within the 50 states, will be allowed to vote on this referendum. This would account for up to 1/3 of the voting block for this issue. It is pure lunacy to allow someone outside the realm and scope of the issue (ex: Not residing in PR) to vote on this issue.

[ajv51]

@MTPatriot1787 You're right on that point. Only the people residing in PR should be allowed to vote simply because they are the ones affected by the territorial status. Out-of-state people have no business whatsoever in the outcome. I believe that is one flaw in the bill that can be corrected later.

[loveangel71]

This is our fault for listening for too long from other Latinos putting thoughts in our head about independence. From now on what ever you guy decide is going to affect us in the long run. Take for example Venezuela and Chavez how they got fool by the communist and now look another Cuba. This is what you want for PR? At least Venezuela is rich in Oil and recourses a big country not small island likes us.

[viyau]

OUr fault for listening too long to other latinos? Because we are latinos, and we were already established before the pilgrims were in Plymouth rock. Latin America is NOT Chavez or Fidel. Dont exaggerate and make things as you go along. La razon no grita, la razon convence, Eso lo dijo Ferre!!

[loveangel71]

They are fleeing by thousand from their unstable government and misery and they are asking us to become independence. What respect I have for those who are asking us for independence when they cry like little baby to become USA citizens.

[loveangel71]

Truthfully, and I'm sincere about this, Puerto Rico will gain respect when it fights to become 51 state. Many wars we fought for USA to have some other punk race talking shit about independence when they jump the fence begging USA to make them legal. It is ironic they are asking us for independence when they are not giving us good examples.

[WhiteKnightArmour]

Truthfully, and I'm sincere about this, Puerto Rico will gain respect when it fights for it's independence from the U.S.

Think about it, your forced to fight in our wars and aren't even given the right to vote. That's a big slap in the face if ever and what even worse, many non-hispanics aren't even aware of it. Good luck to you guys since I've met many who are simply one of the most charming I've met from many groups.

[chickapuertorico]

he said it "ive never thought about it" puertorico is something americans dont think about. we are not important.

[Ineededanaccount0]

Well this just can't happen, I hope that it doesn't. I really hope

[yanitzia]

we are already losing culture because of thousands of dominican's that come every year......taking over the island and were doing nothing to stop it.

[gui0134]

The United States has been a fervent supporter of pro-democratic movements in the Middle-East, Europe and Latin America , but it ignores people in Puerto Rico that are American citizens in their look for a democratic solution to their status. Anyway less than 5% of the people in Puerto Rico support independence.

[AmmoBravo]

I understand your situation. I am a Puerto Rican and I am pro-satehood. The thing is that there can be no debate, referendum, elections and so on because of the economical crisis. If we want to move on, because we have to, even Obama said whe cannot be commonwealth for ever, we have to surpass the economical crisis. And i'm sorry if you don't want PR to be state, but you better start accepting it because in the Sept. 4, 2009 elections the New Progressive Party (pro-statehood) won with a 61%

[Ineededanaccount0]

But uh, how did that happen. I'm pretty sure that September 4th 2009 hasn't happened yet, do you mean 2008?

[AmmoBravo]

yes 2008 im sorry

[viyau]

Puerto Ricans do not want to work. They want "free" money and have benefits. How will the US Treasury recoup all the welfare it gives out?

[AmmoBravo]

That's the exact mentality that we have to overcome.

[viyau]

I dont know how to do that if the government (PR) uses welfare as a Political tactic to win elections? The US is enabling all this by not putting their foot down and demanding everyone put their own weight

[LaBoricua87]

True, but get yoyr facts straight on the other issue: All the benefits the USA gets from PUERTO RICO. That's right. Check all the regulations, hidden taxes, etc. But sure, because it is all at the governmental level, not directly affecting people, they don't know what's going on.

USA is not stupid. If Puerto Rico's current status didn't benefit them, they would have changed it a loooooong time ago.

Get a history + political science book. Then you'll know what I'm talking about.

[viyau]

You are right. There is a certain hidden and not obvious benefit to the US to maintain PR. People need to wake up!

[loveangel71]

Hey faggot who you to talk shit about this, do you know the thousands of Puerto Rican soldiers who gave their life to defend USA since Vietnam, World War I and now. Every war we had fought for USA. This is aim free where are you from? Piece of shit. Not other fucking Latino gave their life to defend this nation; therefore this is our right to become part of the union. Piece shit.

[viyau]

Dont use abusive language about yourself. It looks bad, really. Then, to make things right with those valiant soldiers, let those citizens and their descendants full citizens, with right to vote for president, and make their house a full US continental State And give all the Puerto Ricans who fought in Spain in their Civil War, Spanish citizenship. You are crazy. I think YOU should to to DC, flag waving, stand in the steps and demand statehood - you are a fool and you wont do it. Pend..jo

[loveangel71]

Puerto Rican do not let other countries confuse your minds. THis is our right to become part of the USA union too many of our soldier had die defending USA. Other Latin nations want to see us in the same situation they are.

[viyau]

It doesnt matter if puertoricans want statehood. Us has not given any indicative that they want PR as a state. PR can stomp all they want but the only thing that they are guaranteed by the international community is independence.

[1988rogers]

YES. I hope that day comes soon! I am a pro-independance puerto rican.

[avcor23]

neither that it won'r give it if asked.

[loveangel71]

Too many PR soldier had die defending USA we also paid a lot taxes I will send you a video in Utube with all the information. But thanks anyway for the comment it is the true in some way. No other countries have contributed to USA army, navy, marine, air force and NASA like Puerto Rico.

[viyau]

So, to quote you directly, PR is a country?? Glad you finally acknowledge it. Congratulations

[loveangel71]

NatesChannel in part I agreed with you about Puerto Rico status, but the part that I dont agreed is I am tired as a taxpayer supporting a non-sovereign territory which is NOT part of the United States, Can you tell me how many Puerto Rican soldier has died defending USA since Viet man war until now in IRAK.

[ajv51]

Having that said, PR IS part of the U.S. Just ask the 200,000 Puerto Rican veterans who have served under the U.S. flag in all wars since WWI. In Korea, for instance, Puerto Rico was the second "state" per capita to lose men. Puerto Ricans have shed too much blood in the defense of the U.S. None of the thousands of veterans from PR ever had the chance to vote for their commander-in-chief. In sum, these sacrifices demonstrate that Puerto Ricans are just as American as any other mainlander.

[viyau]

Puerto Rico IS NOT a part of the United States. The US flag only has 50 stars, and last I heard, from History professors, there are only 50 states. PR belongs to the United States, and it is not a part of it.

[avcor23]

Actually is a port-of-entry and part of the Customs Territory and bear in mind that we are citizens of the United States at birth, as if we were in a state.And that is the philosophy of the problem; the flag has 50 stars and there are 4 million born citizens that are not in the flag.

[viyau]

@avcor23 part of the customs territory and postal service and welfare management territory but that is just for administrative purposes. I dont cling to that to claim am an American by right in the constitution. PR american is controlled and revokable by congress. OUt the 4 million not all are American, there are a lot of foreigners there too. If anyone wants to exercise american rights, go live in USA not in a territory

[avcor23]

Sure, for administrative purposes as any other state is a state for administrative purposes. And since all US government related entities see PR as any other state, and all the implications of the jurisdiction under the flag of the US applies to PR...so yeah PR is very much part of the US and we are as American as anyone in any of the other states...

[viyau]

@avcor23 But the fact that the US considers PR as a state for administrative purposes does not PR a part of the US make. PR is a territory and not a part of USA. It is US soil, etc, but now you are playing on semantics. I think that was covered under Balzac vs Porto Rico. But PR is in a political limbo and only USA has the answer as to what PR really is.

[avcor23]

Of course, if all this is all semantics. Even Balzac was about semantics. But along with semantics there are actions that clearly show that PR is part of the US not just belongs to it. And these actions are of before and after BvPR. So, no, PR is not in any limbo, just sitting in front of the two doors waiting for someone to open either one.

[viyau]

@avcor23 No, Balzac was not semantics, Balzac is judicial ruling. PR belongs to and is not part of. I dont know how much clearer you want it. Maybe you are trying to encontrarle 5 patas al gato" . That is case law not PNP law, not Avcor23 law. PR is in limbo because it is not an independent country and it is not a state. No one really knows what PR , but one thing for sure is that PR IS NOT PART OF THE USA. Mas claro no canta un gallo.

[avcor23]

As for being revokable, sure it could be, because we are a territory, but until then is as valid as anyone else's. As for the 4 million, sure but I guess you don't say you have a 3,934,128 Bytes pendrive, do you? You say you have a 4GB. More or oless the same thing . As for exercising rights, a territory is as American soilas any other state, so no we are living in America already and we pay our dues, so we can exercise our wights here.

[viyau]

@avcor23 But we are not living in America. Well first of all, not to be offensive to you, but America is not a county, rather referred to as a continent, no offense ok? so PR have been Americans since Columbus and before the pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock. I know the "gentilicio" in English does not exist, but that does not excuse it.

[avcor23]

I'm not following you with this. I mean; talking about semantics; the comment of "living in America" obviosly was within the context of the exchange regarding the realtionship between PR and the US. In that regard yes we are living in the United States. That said, there is no offense to be taken and no need for an explanation regarding the use of the word America.

[viyau]

@avcor23 Well, America is inclusive of Canada as well. North America inclused US, Canada and Mexico, Then there is Central, and South America. No semantics needed there. When you look in a map, does it refer to USA as "America"? Am just saying the truth.

[ajv51]

I completely agree! That's the whole point...to let Puerto Rico decide. I encourage you to support the Puerto Rico Democracy Act (HR 2499), which would order a federally sponsored referendum in PR. This would put this issue to rest, as Puerto Ricans will be allowed to decide in a real and binding referendum. You should be outraged at the $22 billion per year that is spent yearly to maintain a modern day colony.

[viyau]

PR does not need the have any HR2499, it just needs to go the UN office and say I want the US to give me statehood. simple as that.

[Tabooga65]

@ajv51 Bull. PR has voted and rejected statehood 4 times. This crap is designed to prevent the will of the People of Puerto Rico so the DNC gains a few seats in Congress. It is a screwing over of the people.

[avcor23]

Just FYI ; it hasn't been 4 times only 3 and the last two was against the process and the people who brought it not statehood. A for the DNC control, because at most half of the statehooders will Dem and of those statusquo Dem half won't be interested in National Politics Puerto Rico will be a swing state and not a Dem one.

[ajv51]

@Tabooga65 I reject the conventional wisdom that PR will be a Democrat state. I'm a Republican from PR and I personally think that it could be a GOP state. Puerto Ricans are very socially and fiscally conservative. In any case, that should not even be a consideration. If you look at history, everyone thought Alaska was going to be a Dem state and Hawaii a Republican state. So if history gives us any indication, no one should be in the business of predicting these things.

[Consul51]

@Tabooga65 Puerto Rico has been part of the United States since 1898, 112 years approximately. Since 1917 we have been citizens of the United States just the same as any other US Citizen. You are corect that in fact there have been 4 processes in PR and that statehood has not been favored in them, the most recent was in 1998, 12 years ago. I can assure you that this topic will keep on coming until a change in the status has been reached, regardless of the end.

[Consul51]

@Tabooga65 The point you establish that the Democrats would gain two seats in senate well that is rather giving an opinion, because there are both democrats and republicans in PR as we speak, I myself lived for some time in the US and if I were to choose a party I would favor the RP, if the Democrats do a good job in convincing the people then sure they'll grab those seats, but if not they won't. People in Puerto Rico in a majority are in favor of Permanent Union to the US.

[ajv51]

NatesChannel,

The Puerto Rican independence movement is essentially dead. For two consecutive general elections, they have failed to garner the 3% threshold of support needed to maintain themselves as a registered political party. Meanwhile, the Statehood movement has grown. A recent poll conducted by PR's biggest newspaper found the support for statehood to be around 57%. If you support the right of self-determination for PR, you will have to support a future vote in favor of statehood.

[viyau]

The independence movement may be low in PR, but if you looked at the congressional hearings, the council told Fortuno that he needs to give equal footing to independence movement. If there is no independence education and consideration in equal footing, it will not pass an act in congress.

[prdrfinestgansta3]

cecilomar all your agruement says is that you are a follower of other people's ignorance. By becoming a state of the U.S. we boricuas will lose our culture, identity as people, and our language through assimilation. if you hate the situation in puerto rico so much just move to the U.S. and let the country be

[AmmoBravo]

You say that we will lose our culture. Have you been to Hawaii? If you haven't ,probably, you will notice Hula Girls. Where else have you seen Hula Girls in the US? When you see surfers you think of Hawaii. Hawaii was the last state to join in the 1940's and it has not lost its culture. Ok then. Our language. We will not lose our language. Look at Hawaii again for instance. People in Hawaii still speak Hawaiian. If we let go of the US we will en up as the Dominican Rep. or Haiti.

[viyau]

You are so ignorant. Hawaii was its own separate country until the Dole corporation got involved and toppled and imprisoned its queen, Queen Lilliwokalani (google her). And if you read the paper on the web or whatever you will know that the anniversary of the inclusion as a state was protested by a large group. Why? Because it was a sham and a trick and they lost their sovereignty. They cant even afford to live there and last I heard English is the language there and not Hawaiian

[prdrfinestgansta3]

well AmmoBravo, you clearly need to brush up on your history of puerto rico and the U.S. intervetion within the island and find out why puerto rico is in the position its in, and the Dominican Republic can sustain itself as well as Puerto Rico could as long as corruption isn't part of there government. open a book alright, Que VIVA PUERTO RICO Y LA REPUBLICA DOMINICANA

[AmmoBravo]

I am Major Jose Somohano from the cavalry division in the US Army. I am Pro-Statehood, boricuas like most of you here. The thing is that these people (pro-independence) don't know that PR is going to turn into a twin of Haiti or Dominican Republic. PR can not sustain itself. 77% of its income comes from the US. Anyways will it not be good if we could run for president, be part of congress? Oh and to specify pro-independence people are 0.4% according to the recent elections in September.

[cecilomar]

I am not saying that we are right because we a re the majority nor that you are wrong. What I am trying to say is that I have freedom of speech and you should respect that.

People are afraid of groups that doesn't respect the rights of others than themselves. People are afraid of Independentists, FUPI, Macheteros... you name it.

And, are you defending or attacking this conservative and retrograde island?

[Mailrobot]

You have to be a real retard to want us as a state of the union. A republican had to be. If this becomes a state, there's going to be fucking civil war! We dont want to be part of the most capitalist, racist, and fascist nation in the world. We want freedom and democracy! And a responsible goverment that respects social justice!

[cecilomar]

Who is we?

[Mailrobot]

the video is only a minute long. its not gonna take you much time. that way you can know what is being discussed.

[cecilomar]

By "who is we", I mean, "who" doesn't want to be part of the USA? I am sure that by "we" you are talking about the 4% of separatists.

You should be more polite with your comments, you should respect what the people think... or is it that you don't believe in democracy?

[Mailrobot]

look whos talking about democracy. when you release us and stop your colonial abuse, you can talk shit about democracy.

and not tolerating ignorance is not being anti democratic. Im not silencing anybody. im just saying the truth: he is a moron.

[Mailrobot]

Also, we are only 4% because of deluded people that dont realize we are in the 21st century.

You probably are a conservative right winger who doesnt even believe in civil rights.

[cecilomar]

Man... I just want you to calm down... stop insulting people... I am boricua like you and liberal, like almost all boricuas, like almost all pro-statehood. We just have different points of view... What you are doing here is exactly what people are afraid of.

[Mailrobot]

And saying you are liberals is completely insane, and shows you dont know anything of politics, of what right wng is, and what left wing is. Saying you people are liberals is like saying atheists are god fearing. Your party has brought the most extreme right wing horrors to our country (Fortuño, Ferrer, Barcelo)...oh, but because you are the majority, then you are doing the right thing, huh?

I dont even remember why I called whoever a moron.

[cecilomar]

We don't want to be a colony, just like you. We don't want to be abused, just like you... But we are not morons because we don't agree with you about the status. We are not morons just because you think we are. We just believe a different way to resolve this status situation.

And by we, I am talking about pro-statehood believers (52.84%)

[Mailrobot]

Again, you are imposing value to numbers. Because we are 52%...we are right.

No, you are wrong and immoral because history says so. But of course, anyone with any common sense that reads the ridiculous government plan of your party would laugh out loud at the moronic comments when it pretends to link your immoral ideal to historical "fact".

What im doing is what people are afraid of? Please. puertorricans are afraid of thinking, thats what people are afraid of in this country.

[Mailrobot]

Also, saying boricuas are liberal is equally laughable. We are one of the most conservative, therefore retrograde countries left in the world. Give us a couple of years, and we'll be worse than your gods, the USA.

Im open to rational debate. But saying to me the moon is made of cheese is NOT rational.

[Tvaldes2005]

A los Estados Unidos no les conviene dejar ir a Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico es el lugar mas touristico del Caribe, y ellos tienen muchas bases militares en la Isla.. igual en el sentido ambiental, el unico "rain forest" natural de los E.U. esta en Puerto Rico: El Yunque. =]

[dreamteamkill]

Lo que pasa con puerto rico es que los americanos nos "benefician" millones de dolares para ayuda pero los comerciantes nos sacan billones.. la mayoria de la poblacion han sido mesmerizado por el prestigio global de ese pais. mi gente (o parte de ella) no sabe que somos parte de las antillas; el caribe insular y podemos depender de nosotros mismos.y el que dice que no esta comiendo mierda bien cabron.

[Mik5469]

I think Pureto Rico should have been a state since 1898! and they wanna be part of america!

[Magio03]

Problem is there are 3 parties...one party wants PR to become a state of the US,second want PR to become a independence and and the last one wants PR still be a commonwealth of the US.

In my opinion to your comment,I think PR can raise been independence..why?because we can have political power and choose what's good for us and what is bad for us.The relations between US and PR can still be the same as now.And I think the US congress will be happy to give us our independence

[Mailrobot]

You think that because you are a moron, Mik.

[gierbolini90210]

americano pendejo me imagino q no sabe ni donde queda Puerto Rico

[apolo100pre]

Para que la gente tenga una idea... en una eleccion entre la Estadidad y la Independencia... los posibles resultados serian los siguientes:

Siendo considerados con los independentistas, Un 80% Estadidad, un 20% Independencia.

[caltrof]

Cierto, la mayoria eligiria estadidad. Ahora, Los EU estan preparados cuando cientos de distritos estadounidenses necesitan ese dinero que le corresponderia a PR? Muchos patriotas Estadounideneses no estan preparados para el gran paso cuando la prioridad existe dentro del continente. Nos merecemos estadidad? O si. Pero no la conceden

[Magio03]

Pero recuerda que si elegimos la independencia los EU estaran obligados a darnosla...pero si elegimos la estadidad...seria opcion del congreso si kiere que nosotros seamos un estado.

[Magio03]

Una cosa sea que PR quiera la estadidad y otra cosa es que los EU nos la quiera dar. Recuerda que PR es una colonia donde EU manda sobre nosotros