What I dont understand is why on earth would you give anybody from Team Bush a chance to speak? All he did was recruit idiots for his administration. Go do some research on how many scandals he has under his belt.
Nice excuses... Frun never made the comparison between her and cutting off Obama's head, he said the discorse is being lowered and shes contibuting towards it. She simply didn't want to sound stupid (to other stupid people) and made the comparison as if he had made it.
Frum's absolutely right and, although I don't agree with his politics or his former relationship with Bush, in recent years he's been one of the few voices of sanity in the mainstream (or at least televised) right-wing. Maddow, Beck, Olbermann, and Hannity do nothing to encourage responsible discourse. As for Maddow claiming 'satire', well, we have the Daily Show for that. Jon Stewart doesn't pretend to be anything but a jokester, whereas Maddow, Beck and Co. pretend to be journalists.
MCCAIN WOULDVE MADE A GREAT PRESIDENT!! CHANGE IS WHAT WE NEEDED ...SO EVERYONE SAID ...OHH YEA AND YES WE CAN.LOL WELL AMERICA HERE WE ARE MAYBE CHANGE IS REALLY SOMETHING WE DIDNT NEED ..RACHEL MAKES MY SKIN CRAWL...
Yeah right, conservatives don't incite violence! Tell me another funny one oh ye faux conservatives!!! God bless America and God bless you faux conservatives!
How obnoxious to call Rachel Maddow out. Seeing as David Frum played a large part in keeping American whipped into a frenzy as Bush's speech writer, I think it's fitting that he now suffers from the monster he helped create.
a lot of maddow fans really don't see just how similar she is to someone like oreilly. both start with facts, but take them places they shouldn't go and to other facts they shouldn't be connected with
The continuums within political dialog of constructive/damaging & serious/comedic (or racial, e.g. Chappelle) have an discomforting middleground that appears broader the more moderate one's views are.
Maddow's style isn't usually humorous to me and I respect Frum's points here. I also loved Stewart's appearance on Crossfire. And Colbert at the White House Correspondent's Dinner? That, I own on DVD.
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I love how Maddow wishes she could be Olberman by putting on fake voices and ladling her rants with sarcasm. I'm sure she wishes she had a dick too. Yuck...
ok well, if your maddow, one would think, if she want's to equate her show with the people that said kill him, bomb him, ect ect that's her perrogative however it makes her show look more like a partisan arm of the democractic party. I disagree with frum on many things but people like maddow and olberman,hannity, beck, are trying to get ratings, and disregarding the public discourse throught their idelogies rather than discussing issues on merits.
To quote the mother from The Manchurian Candidate, David Frum always looks as though his head is about to come to a point. From William F. Buckley being the conservative spokesperson, to David Frum; depressing, but it does tend to support a disbelief in evolution which should provide some comfort to the right wing.
He wants to talk about substance? He spoke in the most roundabout language imaginable about almost nothing just so he could slip in a couple of points about big government. Amazing.
I could care less about frum or racheal madcow or the rnc or dnc parties . You just go on with your dnc talking points buddy see how far that gets you =) wrh1914 ,, I spoke about her ratings dimwit check the facts and get back to me then LOL silly lib
wrh , I mean shes a bottom feeder in her ratings or lack there of ... I dont care if shes the smartest dude/chick on earth which she isnt but that wont change her ratings. her ratings are at the very bottom so you go ahead and spin her numbers however you wish to but next time you chime in go ahead and address her bottom feeder numbers thanks LOL Libtards are funny
hehehehe is this chick talking about poor english and then she calls him a mormon instead of a moron hehehehehe id say pd your the libterd he is talking about LOL thanks for the laughs tonight =)
shes a bottom feeder rating wise but its a free country at least so far , her likes would change that but even under a single channel facist state she would still have low ratings LOL
Its funny , you guys /gals love to yap about health care reform until we get to allowing people to purchase policy across state lines or tort reform then all of sudden there is silence from the peanut gallery. Where you look at a huge federal government as some awesome , cool , neat thing. Conservatives look at that as worse case senario. Not to boil it down to stereo types but liberals have more faith in government then the actual single person who has freedom of choices.
whoa jackie24 ,,, relax lady dont get your skirt in a twist over my comments. No need for name calling. You can love rachael maddcow for all I care ,,, go get him silly
IF IT WERE IMPORTANT TO YOU... IF IT WERE IMPORTANT =blink= =blink= =close my eyes for an exteneded period of time . . . . = =flutter my eyelids at you to state your unimportance to me...=
A) I actually forgot that McCain was thought to have a chance in the election.
B) I Don't think the left will be gloating for long. Obama's most sought-after legislation isn't in a good place, especially with congressmen looking at elections around the corner. The tide might hit a wall quick.
thats the whole issue its sad that congressmen are more concerned with reelections and keeping their own govt paid healthcare than they are with the citizens they were elected to represent
No, it isn't sad at all. At the core, they are REPRESENTATIVES of what the people want. It might not always be the best option but we live by our choices, we are looking to make the best one.
they arent representing the people theyre representing the pharmaceutical companies that keep these guys livin large. they get all this money AND they get govt. paid healthcare. if these guys want to show me theyre serious they can relinquish their own healthcare and pay out of pocket if they want to keep everyone else from having the same benefits theyre enjoying on our taxes.
The point was that popular opinion is against the bill.
If people supported this and their representatives voted against it, they can kick them out of office with the next vote. Thus, voting based on popular opinion is kind of their job, as with any representatives of a group.
"They are against it because they work for pharmaceutical" Isn't always the case.
i thought i read somewhere that 70% of ppl were for healthcare reform - im not being sarcastic i cant remember. but i also realize that the majority of those ppl who cant afford insurance also dont participate in the voting system so i guess it wont matter til they get off their asses
I think Racheal Madcow is a funny dude , he's always saying exactly what the left wants him to say and not another word extra. He's ratings are the lowest in cable news so besides keith Obertard id say they both need to get a room and go at it marxist style. Both are equally as lame.
1st at the dude comment haha i appreciate humor. u spelled his wrong no punctuation in that uuuuu (he's). and i enjoy mr. maddow i think hes sexy im a girl and id jump his bones if given the chance
David Frum is largely discredited, especially by Israeli intelligence, and AIPAC has better catch up by dissociating entirely, if they are to do the true task of lobbying for Israeli peace and security. Else, AIPAC acts against the interests of Israel, and will feel the consequences. Israel's real lobby will not stand by silently.
Rachel handed this confrontation excellently. Unlike O'Reilly and Hannity, she did not shout over him, interrupt him, or threaten to "cut his mic". She needs to take on more conservatives though, lately all her guests have been brought on to reinforce her views.
also the headline of this video is very misleading. to say that frum is comparing maddow to mccain hecklers implies that frum initally brought up the comparison, which is false. whether or not he confirmed his opinion as such is another matter entirely.
this is ridiculous. to start, i respect maddow for keeping her cool (that is professional) however, her argument is flawed. frum never said that the two were equivalent. maddow seems as though she had that response predeterminded which is very unprofessional. she put words in frum's mouth JUST LIKE O'REILLY.
A bigger state that doesn't only funnnel money to large corporations? Oh god, let's hope they don't start helping the middle class and the poor. That would be so destructive; after all, the wealth will be trickling down any decade now. And for a Bush speechwriter to be complaining about a lack of civil discourse is like Hitler complaining amout anti-semitism.
Maddow does a hatchet job on the McCain campaign and makes a complete joke of it, then she has the gaul to get defensive when Frum calls her on her lack of professionalism? Why doesn't Maddow just put an Obama '08 sticker on her jacket and let the viewers really see who she supports. Maddow is a Olbermann wannabe, and that's not saying much!
Its no secret who she is for just like anyone on Fox News, even if she did "take a hatchet" to the McCain campaign she is a journalist and they should be critical of politicians mistakes. McCain and Palin, however, accused Obama of being a socialist and paling around with terrorists, they crossed the line and it was very reprehensible.
This woman is no more a "journalist" than Sean Hannity. A "journalist" reports the news objectively and uncovers inconsistencies in both parties, universally in government. This woman is an entertainer concerned only with her own beliefs and pressing them on others. GET WITH IT, PEOPLE!!! Recognize entertainment for what it is, and realize the need for real journalism, something that there is precious little of in our country.
That is a ridiculous statement, Hannity word for word reads off Republican talking points (even the typos) and sometimes even makes up facts or bases arguments off religion, Maddow is capable of criticizing her own party. It is impossible to be completely objective, you for instance have shown a leaning towards conservatism by comparing Hannity, who is much worse, to Maddow.
Maddow may not be as bad as Hannity, but they both basically do the same thing in that the stories they cover and the things they say about them cater to their audience and their political point of view. I love Rachel and I believe that she is a brilliant, passionate, talented, entertaining woman, but she is not a journalist. She has said so herself that she thinks of herself as a pundit or commentator, rather than a journalist.
Maddow is the same as Hannity. They are both affable and effective communicators. If you agree with Maddow, then you'll think she's fantastic. I happen to think she sneers way too much and she's partisan to a fault. She's just following the script at all times, too predictable. Does she ever have an original thought or disagree with the left/Democrats? At least Hannity was critical at times of Bush when it came to spending and illegal immigration.
Omg, are you serious? I'm not a Maddow fan, but she is no way as dumb as Hannity. Have you not seen Maddow criticize Obama for prolonged detention? She criticizes the Democrats. Yeah, Hannity is real critical of Bush. He completely ignores that Bush started the bank bailouts and places the blame fully on Obama
i think the diff is hannity actually believes the crap hes saying to be true and maddow and o are using satire. and m & o viewers tend to pick up on the funny and hannity oreilly beck limbaugh viewers are blindly following as if it were relig... strange
Yes Hannity et al pander to simple minded people who are so small minded that thinking 1 dimensionally would be a step up. It's good - evil, black - white, patriot - unamerican to them
Is anyone really falling for Maddows bullcrap false equivalence argument? There isnt an equivalence to what she does and a death threat which it turns out didn't happen anyway. There "is" an equivalence to what she does and a political supporter ranting about items that lack substance instead of issues which could be much more informative about the real character of the candidates at the time.
He's a hypocrite but he is right. every news corporation in the industry does not do their job. He talks about MSNBC but MSNBC is the reaction of Foxnews. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. News on tv is just entertainment, just opinions. Get the yucks on Tv, get the facts at the right places on the internet.
Frum is a SMUG piece of shit. But this goes out to Americans. You people are not getting it. You are being divided on purpose into Liberal and Conservative. Fox takes the right MSN takes the left and so on. Its all being controlled by the same people. Race, Class Religion, Communist Capitalist it is all designed to divide us so we are easier to control. United we stand divided we fall, there is method to their madness and they are laughing at how easy you are to manipulate, dont let them do it.
THIS GUY IS A COMPLETE PIECE OF SHIT. hes a pompous dick head. Rachel Maddow was not failing at her job. she does a great job!!! the republicans however are failing
I don't always agree with Frum, but he is right on here. We deserve serious debate and discussion, but we want political hacks and low end attacks. Both sides are guilty. Maddow, Olberman, Limbaugh, Hannity, and O'Reiley are not serious thinkers or journalists. They feed into our mose base nature and offer nothing to the debate.
Listen carefully to Frum's words. The feigned outrage over discourse issues is just an excuse to let out some steam. He's pissed that his party is losing its grip on the country and even moresothat the Dems will for the first time in a decade have the power to push their own agenda. He's pissed off and took it out on the nearest target he could find.
The funny part is, even if he wants the media, the show, or their discussion to focus on the issues, deliberately attacking the host of a show at the opening of an interview was the worst move he could make.
What an idiot, maybe if he wanted a civil discussion, he should have told her off camera or not even have gone on the show.
That's some of the most uncomfortable punditry I've seen in a long time. I think From is pushing for a GoodThing(tm): a more substantive political conversation. He was a little sharp in his delivery and kinda ambushed her. Maddow seemed to play just a little hyperbole...fixing on some kind of equivalence argument. She had a point that political discourse takes many forms, satyr (laughing at our political selves) a healthy one. In that sense, From's barking up the wrong tree.But point taken.
Sorry pizzledizzlewizzle, I didn't mean to talk over your head. I will break this down so you can better understand it.
1) The claim is Rachael doesn't get it.
2) She kicked the ever loving crap out of Frum and another McCain talking head.
3) Rachel clearly gets it BETTER than McCain's talking heads.
4) So assuming the initial claim is accurate and Rachel doesn't get it, yet she gets it better than McCain's talking heads, then what does that say for the McCain posse?
Frum is a pompous, hypocritical ass. He rattles on about wanting 'serious' debate without acknowledging his own role in contributing to the dumbing down of American politics as Bush's speechwriter. Remember the 'axis of evil'?
I am really enjoying watching all these stuffy, self-important, right-wing windbags squirm. No one is taking them seriously anymore. They have become laughing-stocks and they don't like it!
Conservatives only want to be grown up, as here, when they think they're going to lose. Witness the aftermath of the '06 elections when they lost the House and Senate. Suddenly, they were all about "Working in a bipartisan manner. Let's be grown up about this." Before the the elections? "Bipartisanship is equivalent to date rape."
For an example of how to state facts with probably the minimum possible sneering and sarcasm, watch some videos by Sam Harris (author of "The End of Faith" and "Letter to a Christian Nation"). Sam still riles up his opponents, but he does so only with facts, not with too much gratuitous mockery. Sam epitomizes sangfroid. Granted, on a scale of zero to Bill-O, Rachel is only about a 0.05, but still that's enough to enrage the self-righteous conservatives. Do you want to change their minds?
Anyone who doesn't go along 100% with the psycho-babble that faux puts out is enough to enrage the self-righteous conservatives.
I mean my God, you wouldn't believe the number of nut jobs I've heard saying that factcheckDOTorg is "liberal". Factcheck is one of the most non-partisan and FAIR (as in they hit on BOTH sides) political sites on the net. These people don't want fair and/or balanced, they want FAUX.
People like Jon Stewart and Rachel who poke fun at politics are needed in this country. So many people are sick of politics and people like Rachel and Jon bring serious issues upfront so America can see exactly how pathetic politicians have become...mostly on the RIGHT side.
I love how Rachel can school literally anyone and do it with class. She's a perfect example of Air America argues their points; as intelligent discussions. No shouting, no talking over, no misdirection. Tom Hartman and Rachel Maddow are plucked from the same tree. The intelligent one.
Can you imagine a similar critism if it were on the Oreilly factor??? Oreilly would realize he's losing the debate then start hurling insults 30 seconds in.
You don't have to imagine Bill-O substituting volume for intelligence and coherence - you can watch Bill-O "interviewing" Sam Harris i.e. shouting at him for most of the interview slot. Sam stayed completely centered and made the most of the few words Bill-O allowed him to slip in edgewise. That's sangfroid - something everyone should aspire to.
I am a Dem, but Charlie Crist is a moderate Republican here in FL. I could understand that he would run as far as he could from McCain. Mr. Frum, for the past 27 years, your party has used hate, lies, spew, and hate. McCain's campaign has the stench of Rove's imprints.
Ridicule can work on the school playground. If one child is ridiculed by all his peers, he will probably submit and conform to social pressure. In politics, it's different. Opposing sides form large, insular groups that don't feel pressure to conform to the views of their opponents. Ridicule in politics mostly just reinforces what pre-existing beliefs people had. If you are a conservative, Rush Limbaugh further convinces you, but if you are a liberal, his ridicule merely outrages you.
not being able to hear what people are yelling while you incite them might be an excuse if it happened only once.. but it happened a number of times as a predictable response to her speeches!!!
What was the level of discourse from YOUR Bush administration for the last eight years? You accused Dems of aiding terrorists? All it took was an op-ed for the Bush administration to delve into treasonous behavior and out a CIA agent. What was the cooperation with the Dem side of the aisle until Republican's lost control of the congress and how were those Dems treated? Who has been accused of wanting to "surrender" because they sought an end to the Iraq occupation.
He wants to have an adult conversation but like a little kid he is complaining about sarcasm, instead of dismissing it as an adult would. He sounds more like mommy, mommy look they are laughing at the GOP. What an idiot.
WHAT?! If you're a McCain supporter these days, you do NOT get to criticize others for "sneering and sarcasm."
Forgetting about the people at the rallies for a second, McCain himself has been incredibly insulting and sarcastic when speaking about Obama. There was also the way Palin and Giuliani mocked Obama at the RNC because he'd been a "community organizer." There was the way McCain kept saying "what Senator Obama doesn't understand..." in the first debate. And so on.
How pathetic Frum is. He doesn't have the guts to admit when the republicans screw up, or engage in crimes, so he starts attacking the host about being 'just as bad'.
Don't let yourself be intimidated by that little twerp, Rachel.
You know, it is simply mind boggling to watch Frum sit there and say these things. Again, he was a speech writer for Bush, rabid neocon, and one of the chief promoters of going into Iraq. The Bush admin he served in is directly responsible for the nasty, partisan atmosphere in this country today. He even notes things are dicey in Afghanistan right now. Hello, who were the idiots that pushed for Iraq BEFORE Afghanistan was stablized??? But now he thinks everyone else should tone it down, LOL.
What better way to learn from a mistake than to make it? Frum is right that flaming produces one result: more flaming. Anyone who has spent time online knows this. That's why Wikipedia has a "be civil" policy - it's the only want to get diverse people to work together. Politics is figuring out how to work with people who will always disagree with you. We will never have a 100% conservative or 100% liberal country. And if we did, can you imagine what a wreck it would be?
I would give your comments more credence if the example were not David Frum. Frum and his ilk did irreparable damage to this country with the neocon push for the invasion of Iraq. They lied in the runup to war, then they continued to as the situation deteriorated, while labeling anyone who disagreed or spoke out as disloyal, defeatists, etc. Now they all play cover thy ass, and gee can't we all get along. None of them has the balls to admit they were wrong. Oh and btw, I was Republican, not now.
So David Frum is a bad guy. Does that mean if David Frum says the Earth is round, the Earth is really flat? Reality doesn't care who reports it, reality just is. Read about the ad hominem fallacy (for example, on Wikipedia). To understand the pointlessness of ridiculing your political opponents, ask yourself if Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh have converted any progressives to conservatives by ridiculing them.
You are now making less and less sense. First of all, while I don't agree with everything Rachel Maddow says, nor am I a liberal, at least she is generally polite and civil in her remarks. Taking her to task is kind of silly. Second, people like Frum do not deserve the benefit of the doubt, for good reason. They created the partisanship monster, and now gosh gee, they want everyone to tone it down. Where were these people 5 hears ago, when they gleefully sowed the seeds of all this???
David Frum himself is a lying neocon scumbag. It is truly amazing, and sickening, to see how this clown now tries to hold himself out as an example of reason and fairness. He and his buddy Richard Perle were two of the leading chickenhawk lying neocons who helped push our clueless leader into Iraq. After the war started, Frum went on all the talk shows calling it "a war forced upon us", and other complete and total lies.
If it had only been once, he may "possibly" be able to get away with that, it'd be very difficult, but he could play up the stupid roll.... But this has happened SEVERAL TIMES now, so there is no dodging it.
"TERRORIST", "KILL HIM" (twice), "OFF WITH HIS HEAD", "TRAITOR", and there may even be more than what I've heard about.
I love Rachel Maddow. Unfortunately, David Frum has a point when he asserts "equivalence" - namely, that a whole bunch of people who disagree with Rachel's politics will feel just as wounded, hurt, outraged, righteously indignant, etc. at her jokes and sarcasm at their expense as Rachel feels offended by the objectively worse rhetoric from the other side. Rachel should not gloat when Obama wins like the French did with the Treaty of Versailles. We saw where that led.
...and France did not "win" the Treaty of Versailles. Clemenceau failed to achieve the demands of the French people, and he was voted out of office in January 1920.
French Field Marshal Ferdinand Foch, who felt the restrictions on Germany were too lenient, stated, "This is not Peace. It is an Armistice for twenty years."
It has been argued that the treaty was advantageous to Germany. The Bismarckian Reich was maintained as a political unit, and Germany escaped post-war military occupation.
Hitler made a point of forcing the French to sign the 1940 surrender in the same rail car the French had kept on triumphal display to gloat about the 1918 Armistice. In 1918, the Allies forced the Germans to pay reparations; in 1945, the Allies gave them the Marshall Plan. In football, players get penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct when they celebrate excessively after victorious plays. Rachel Maddow entertains my infantile revenge impulses but she does not solve the problem.
Sorry, but there is no "equivalence" to mocking and THREATENING. Huge, HUGE difference.
There is no equivalence to what Rachel does and McCain/Palin inciting people at their rallies to the point where they are shouting "KILL HIM", "TERRORIST", "OFF WITH HIS HEAD", "TRAITOR", etc.
Or how about the minister who before one of McCain's speeches prayed that McCain would win so that the Obama supporters who are praying to Allah would not their their god was more powerful. OBAMA IS A CHRISTIAN BTW!
You're not understanding my argument. I'm not saying Rachel's sneering sarcasm is morally equivalent to firebrands who incite violence, that is in some sort of absolute moral sense (and by the way, if you can logically define "absolute morality" you'd be the first). Rather, I am saying that Rachel's sneering sarcasm gets under the skin of the David Frum crowd about as much as Bill-O gets under your skin and my skin. Are you willing to grant that other people have feelings too?
If we're going on morally equivalent (as in "sin" is "sin") then lying is equivalent to killing someone as they are both are morally wrong... But that is where the similarities end.
The same thing applies to calling for Obama to be killed and Rachel's satire. While Rachel may get under the skin of McCain supporters, there is no equivalence to his supporters calling for Obama to be killed on more than one occasion and what Rachel does on her show.
Rachel Maddow and Ann Coulter are equivalently unpersuasive to hard-liners on the other side, but their respective choirs love them.
If the goal is not to change anyone's mind, but just to entertain people who already have their minds made up, then Rachel and Ann have found their respective niches.
Do you ever think seriously about how the people you disagree with can believe what they believe? And what it might take to change their minds? Or at least open them up slightly?
Teratornis, I don't see how you can make the case that Rachel being "unpersuasive to hard-liners on the other side" is at all equivalent to McCain/Palin enticing their supporters to shout THREATS towards Obama, or to boo when McCain says he's going to be respectful towards Obama.
If you want to make a completely separate point of comparing Rachel to Ann Coulter then fine, but David Frum and Rachel were talking about the comments made at the McCain/Palin rallies NOT Ann Coulter. Big difference!
If McCain supporters are praying for their man to win, that's great. Scientific research has conclusively proven that prayer doesn't work. Prayer is what desperate people do when they know they are losing. If McCain's supporters felt no need to pray, that would indicate we are heading for another four years like the last eight.
What I dont understand is why on earth would you give anybody from Team Bush a chance to speak? All he did was recruit idiots for his administration. Go do some research on how many scandals he has under his belt.
itsmarkwtf 6 months ago
I love how Rachel Maddow can lay the verbal smackdown on somebody while at the same time not being an asshole while doing it.
minisiets 7 months ago
thanx for reminding us of what's important. MSNBC and Maddows racist hatred won't fly. We're pulling all of our ads from MSNBC.
Hydrocodone 10 months ago
@98DevilDog79 You mean like when Bill O Rielly says "Now Look, Im not going to call you a pin head"
He didn't actually call anyone a pin head, in fact he said the opposite. it's funny how people take things the wrong way....
She gave facts about inconcsistencies in the campaign and then made a light joke about it....how is that lowering the conversation.
shandcunt 10 months ago
Fuck I Love Maddow, doesn't take shit!!
shandcunt 10 months ago
Maddow wears underwear with dickholes in them
gombis666 1 year ago
Nice excuses... Frun never made the comparison between her and cutting off Obama's head, he said the discorse is being lowered and shes contibuting towards it. She simply didn't want to sound stupid (to other stupid people) and made the comparison as if he had made it.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
Cant wait for Crist to come out of the closet.
gombis666 1 year ago
"Pals around with Terrorists"?
Ayers blew up buildings...Obama as has a long and documented relationship with Ayers.
YES!
croissantanyone 1 year ago
@croissantanyone:: Your dumb.
itsmarkwtf 6 months ago
Frum's absolutely right and, although I don't agree with his politics or his former relationship with Bush, in recent years he's been one of the few voices of sanity in the mainstream (or at least televised) right-wing. Maddow, Beck, Olbermann, and Hannity do nothing to encourage responsible discourse. As for Maddow claiming 'satire', well, we have the Daily Show for that. Jon Stewart doesn't pretend to be anything but a jokester, whereas Maddow, Beck and Co. pretend to be journalists.
LibPornQuig 1 year ago
MCCAIN WOULDVE MADE A GREAT PRESIDENT!! CHANGE IS WHAT WE NEEDED ...SO EVERYONE SAID ...OHH YEA AND YES WE CAN.LOL WELL AMERICA HERE WE ARE MAYBE CHANGE IS REALLY SOMETHING WE DIDNT NEED ..RACHEL MAKES MY SKIN CRAWL...
mrsyrl 1 year ago
Yeah right, conservatives don't incite violence! Tell me another funny one oh ye faux conservatives!!! God bless America and God bless you faux conservatives!
jazzfan5000 1 year ago
what the hell are these two men talking about?
savemyplaylist 1 year ago
Comon...am I the only one who would love to slap Frums fat yap!
Vinelandar 1 year ago
How obnoxious to call Rachel Maddow out. Seeing as David Frum played a large part in keeping American whipped into a frenzy as Bush's speech writer, I think it's fitting that he now suffers from the monster he helped create.
acinodras 1 year ago 2
@acinodras good hand well played.....truth....and perfectly said
jiwdan416 1 year ago
a lot of maddow fans really don't see just how similar she is to someone like oreilly. both start with facts, but take them places they shouldn't go and to other facts they shouldn't be connected with
nubbs 1 year ago
The continuums within political dialog of constructive/damaging & serious/comedic (or racial, e.g. Chappelle) have an discomforting middleground that appears broader the more moderate one's views are.
Maddow's style isn't usually humorous to me and I respect Frum's points here. I also loved Stewart's appearance on Crossfire. And Colbert at the White House Correspondent's Dinner? That, I own on DVD.
kjellmikal 1 year ago
David Frum is a good man, unfortunately he lacks intelligence due to his brain damage due to excess use of coke.
dragonlancet 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I love how Maddow wishes she could be Olberman by putting on fake voices and ladling her rants with sarcasm. I'm sure she wishes she had a dick too. Yuck...
gombis666 1 year ago
9:43 : Bullshit
PassTheKoolAide 2 years ago
former speech writer for bush talking about substance. god damn.
MrEatonbeaver 2 years ago
David Frum is one smart man! Very quick and witty.
mjjf505 2 years ago
LoL a hilarious good testy exchange I like it!
mjjf505 2 years ago 2
ok well, if your maddow, one would think, if she want's to equate her show with the people that said kill him, bomb him, ect ect that's her perrogative however it makes her show look more like a partisan arm of the democractic party. I disagree with frum on many things but people like maddow and olberman,hannity, beck, are trying to get ratings, and disregarding the public discourse throught their idelogies rather than discussing issues on merits.
theonemanparty7 2 years ago
way to totally misunderstand the video
she's not try to equate her show with the people that said kill him, bomb him, ect
she's saying he's equating her commentary with those people and she's saying he's full of shit
IronChefWannabe 2 years ago
To quote the mother from The Manchurian Candidate, David Frum always looks as though his head is about to come to a point. From William F. Buckley being the conservative spokesperson, to David Frum; depressing, but it does tend to support a disbelief in evolution which should provide some comfort to the right wing.
chomsky88 2 years ago
god the ignorance that comes out this nasty guy looking thing ... so annoying and stupid
aviles1323 2 years ago 2
He wants to talk about substance? He spoke in the most roundabout language imaginable about almost nothing just so he could slip in a couple of points about big government. Amazing.
biantai888 2 years ago
I could care less about frum or racheal madcow or the rnc or dnc parties . You just go on with your dnc talking points buddy see how far that gets you =) wrh1914 ,, I spoke about her ratings dimwit check the facts and get back to me then LOL silly lib
idahoman325 2 years ago
wrh , I mean shes a bottom feeder in her ratings or lack there of ... I dont care if shes the smartest dude/chick on earth which she isnt but that wont change her ratings. her ratings are at the very bottom so you go ahead and spin her numbers however you wish to but next time you chime in go ahead and address her bottom feeder numbers thanks LOL Libtards are funny
idahoman325 2 years ago
what the fuck is a libtard? Learn English or get the fuck out of America goat fucking mormon.
PD413PD 2 years ago
hehehehe is this chick talking about poor english and then she calls him a mormon instead of a moron hehehehehe id say pd your the libterd he is talking about LOL thanks for the laughs tonight =)
laurak331 2 years ago
I'm gonna call you out turd basket....let's see... you are most likely a fagittarius with a repressed obsessed issue. Ten points for me, no?
PD413PD 2 years ago
shes a bottom feeder rating wise but its a free country at least so far , her likes would change that but even under a single channel facist state she would still have low ratings LOL
idahoman325 2 years ago
Bottom feeder? Yeh, right! She is just a Rhodes Scholar! I'm sure you often speak from you gut or other places. Just know your facts!
WRH1914 2 years ago 2
Its funny , you guys /gals love to yap about health care reform until we get to allowing people to purchase policy across state lines or tort reform then all of sudden there is silence from the peanut gallery. Where you look at a huge federal government as some awesome , cool , neat thing. Conservatives look at that as worse case senario. Not to boil it down to stereo types but liberals have more faith in government then the actual single person who has freedom of choices.
idahoman325 2 years ago
liberal faith in govt proves they are idiots
What have they ever done to earn such trust?
SWEP2AOTC2002 2 years ago
Is that why republicans vote for nixon, reagan, and bushes, because you want to show the rest of us how bad government really is?
InKa4484 2 years ago
whoa jackie24 ,,, relax lady dont get your skirt in a twist over my comments. No need for name calling. You can love rachael maddcow for all I care ,,, go get him silly
idahoman325 2 years ago
IF IT WERE IMPORTANT TO YOU... IF IT WERE IMPORTANT =blink= =blink= =close my eyes for an exteneded period of time . . . . = =flutter my eyelids at you to state your unimportance to me...=
tamme7777777 2 years ago
A) I actually forgot that McCain was thought to have a chance in the election.
B) I Don't think the left will be gloating for long. Obama's most sought-after legislation isn't in a good place, especially with congressmen looking at elections around the corner. The tide might hit a wall quick.
Joem734 2 years ago
thats the whole issue its sad that congressmen are more concerned with reelections and keeping their own govt paid healthcare than they are with the citizens they were elected to represent
tamme7777777 2 years ago
No, it isn't sad at all. At the core, they are REPRESENTATIVES of what the people want. It might not always be the best option but we live by our choices, we are looking to make the best one.
Joem734 2 years ago
they arent representing the people theyre representing the pharmaceutical companies that keep these guys livin large. they get all this money AND they get govt. paid healthcare. if these guys want to show me theyre serious they can relinquish their own healthcare and pay out of pocket if they want to keep everyone else from having the same benefits theyre enjoying on our taxes.
youtube olbermann special comment
tamme7777777 2 years ago
The point was that popular opinion is against the bill.
If people supported this and their representatives voted against it, they can kick them out of office with the next vote. Thus, voting based on popular opinion is kind of their job, as with any representatives of a group.
"They are against it because they work for pharmaceutical" Isn't always the case.
Joem734 2 years ago
i thought i read somewhere that 70% of ppl were for healthcare reform - im not being sarcastic i cant remember. but i also realize that the majority of those ppl who cant afford insurance also dont participate in the voting system so i guess it wont matter til they get off their asses
tamme7777777 2 years ago
Frum is a low life war monger.Frum we remember your war mongering speechs.Frum is an intellectual hate monger.This guy is dangerous
humaner 2 years ago
I think Racheal Madcow is a funny dude , he's always saying exactly what the left wants him to say and not another word extra. He's ratings are the lowest in cable news so besides keith Obertard id say they both need to get a room and go at it marxist style. Both are equally as lame.
idahoman325 2 years ago
1st at the dude comment haha i appreciate humor. u spelled his wrong no punctuation in that uuuuu (he's). and i enjoy mr. maddow i think hes sexy im a girl and id jump his bones if given the chance
tamme7777777 2 years ago
Hey redneck , in case you are someone who doesn't like sounding like some stupid moron, Rachel is a woman.
Go call Hannity, I'm sure he would be amused by your sense of humor
jakefree24 2 years ago
who the hell is Rachel Maddow?
jcruenv 2 years ago
And MSDNC wonders why its ratings are so low -- and still plummeting.
BoyGenteel 2 years ago 2
And Right wing geeks who watch FOX cause their talk show bignmouths work there too, obviously confuse popularity with quality
jakefree24 2 years ago
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Nice work. keep it up. mean time come for social media marketing for esteembpo**com NHJF
magdalenrivetgjf 2 years ago
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David Frum is largely discredited, especially by Israeli intelligence, and AIPAC has better catch up by dissociating entirely, if they are to do the true task of lobbying for Israeli peace and security. Else, AIPAC acts against the interests of Israel, and will feel the consequences. Israel's real lobby will not stand by silently.
Gold2Credit 2 years ago
Rachel handed this confrontation excellently. Unlike O'Reilly and Hannity, she did not shout over him, interrupt him, or threaten to "cut his mic". She needs to take on more conservatives though, lately all her guests have been brought on to reinforce her views.
jeremimi 3 years ago 2
Good point. The O'Reilly and Hannity megalomania isn't there, which is refreshing
nater551 3 years ago 3
Couldn't agree more. She is much more civilized than the bunch at faux news.
garrocks 2 years ago 2
Would it be redundant for me to state that I agree?
gwydyon2525 2 years ago
also the headline of this video is very misleading. to say that frum is comparing maddow to mccain hecklers implies that frum initally brought up the comparison, which is false. whether or not he confirmed his opinion as such is another matter entirely.
hpw101 3 years ago
this is ridiculous. to start, i respect maddow for keeping her cool (that is professional) however, her argument is flawed. frum never said that the two were equivalent. maddow seems as though she had that response predeterminded which is very unprofessional. she put words in frum's mouth JUST LIKE O'REILLY.
hpw101 3 years ago
A bigger state that doesn't only funnnel money to large corporations? Oh god, let's hope they don't start helping the middle class and the poor. That would be so destructive; after all, the wealth will be trickling down any decade now. And for a Bush speechwriter to be complaining about a lack of civil discourse is like Hitler complaining amout anti-semitism.
chomsky88 3 years ago
Maddow does a hatchet job on the McCain campaign and makes a complete joke of it, then she has the gaul to get defensive when Frum calls her on her lack of professionalism? Why doesn't Maddow just put an Obama '08 sticker on her jacket and let the viewers really see who she supports. Maddow is a Olbermann wannabe, and that's not saying much!
thinkingrationally 3 years ago
Its no secret who she is for just like anyone on Fox News, even if she did "take a hatchet" to the McCain campaign she is a journalist and they should be critical of politicians mistakes. McCain and Palin, however, accused Obama of being a socialist and paling around with terrorists, they crossed the line and it was very reprehensible.
lylelammers 3 years ago
This woman is no more a "journalist" than Sean Hannity. A "journalist" reports the news objectively and uncovers inconsistencies in both parties, universally in government. This woman is an entertainer concerned only with her own beliefs and pressing them on others. GET WITH IT, PEOPLE!!! Recognize entertainment for what it is, and realize the need for real journalism, something that there is precious little of in our country.
sampolisci08 2 years ago
That is a ridiculous statement, Hannity word for word reads off Republican talking points (even the typos) and sometimes even makes up facts or bases arguments off religion, Maddow is capable of criticizing her own party. It is impossible to be completely objective, you for instance have shown a leaning towards conservatism by comparing Hannity, who is much worse, to Maddow.
lylelammers 2 years ago
Maddow may not be as bad as Hannity, but they both basically do the same thing in that the stories they cover and the things they say about them cater to their audience and their political point of view. I love Rachel and I believe that she is a brilliant, passionate, talented, entertaining woman, but she is not a journalist. She has said so herself that she thinks of herself as a pundit or commentator, rather than a journalist.
CanadianQueer 2 years ago
Maddow is the same as Hannity. They are both affable and effective communicators. If you agree with Maddow, then you'll think she's fantastic. I happen to think she sneers way too much and she's partisan to a fault. She's just following the script at all times, too predictable. Does she ever have an original thought or disagree with the left/Democrats? At least Hannity was critical at times of Bush when it came to spending and illegal immigration.
sndblstr 2 years ago
Omg, are you serious? I'm not a Maddow fan, but she is no way as dumb as Hannity. Have you not seen Maddow criticize Obama for prolonged detention? She criticizes the Democrats. Yeah, Hannity is real critical of Bush. He completely ignores that Bush started the bank bailouts and places the blame fully on Obama
Janetvdl 2 years ago
Hannity critical your fucking joking right?
dopeskies 2 years ago
i think the diff is hannity actually believes the crap hes saying to be true and maddow and o are using satire. and m & o viewers tend to pick up on the funny and hannity oreilly beck limbaugh viewers are blindly following as if it were relig... strange
tamme7777777 2 years ago
Yes Hannity et al pander to simple minded people who are so small minded that thinking 1 dimensionally would be a step up. It's good - evil, black - white, patriot - unamerican to them
jakefree24 2 years ago
tell me about it trying to have a rational convo w one of these ppl is exhausting
tamme7777777 2 years ago
Is it Maddow or Madcow.
blt40 3 years ago
Is anyone really falling for Maddows bullcrap false equivalence argument? There isnt an equivalence to what she does and a death threat which it turns out didn't happen anyway. There "is" an equivalence to what she does and a political supporter ranting about items that lack substance instead of issues which could be much more informative about the real character of the candidates at the time.
gilmore2773 3 years ago
He's a hypocrite but he is right. every news corporation in the industry does not do their job. He talks about MSNBC but MSNBC is the reaction of Foxnews. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. News on tv is just entertainment, just opinions. Get the yucks on Tv, get the facts at the right places on the internet.
brm096 3 years ago 2
What he hell is she doing.? Is she a news reporter, or just taking shots at the McCain campaign just like Keith Olberman does..?
Man MSNBC is tanking in the ratings for a reason.
GOD ANOTHER DISMAL NEWS NETWORK FOR MIS REPRESENTING THE VIEWERS.
FAILURE AND DISTORTED LIES.
sanj1981 3 years ago
She's a female Olbermann!!
thinkingrationally 3 years ago
pretty sure on nov. 4 a little over half the country voted for her 'misrepresentations'
slantedeskimo 3 years ago
Frum is a SMUG piece of shit. But this goes out to Americans. You people are not getting it. You are being divided on purpose into Liberal and Conservative. Fox takes the right MSN takes the left and so on. Its all being controlled by the same people. Race, Class Religion, Communist Capitalist it is all designed to divide us so we are easier to control. United we stand divided we fall, there is method to their madness and they are laughing at how easy you are to manipulate, dont let them do it.
JuanCarlos30000 3 years ago
I couldn't agree more.
CanadianQueer 2 years ago
go rachel! keepin it reeeeal! great exchange between rahcel the goddess and frum.
simonesimone2 3 years ago
Wow... Frum's a deluded prick!
Jimill 3 years ago
LOL Maddow is such a goon.
Cardinalsarelame 3 years ago
Rachel Maddow is a Rhodes Scholar. This guy didn't stand a chance from the get-go!
halli321 3 years ago
THIS GUY IS A COMPLETE PIECE OF SHIT. hes a pompous dick head. Rachel Maddow was not failing at her job. she does a great job!!! the republicans however are failing
KarmicJuggernaut 3 years ago 3
@KarmicJuggernaut Great example of the ad hominem attacks that riddle's "show".
croissantanyone 1 year ago
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I don't always agree with Frum, but he is right on here. We deserve serious debate and discussion, but we want political hacks and low end attacks. Both sides are guilty. Maddow, Olberman, Limbaugh, Hannity, and O'Reiley are not serious thinkers or journalists. They feed into our mose base nature and offer nothing to the debate.
FAHayek89 3 years ago
she's good.
mervadine 3 years ago 3
@mervadine
she's hot.
Disney312 1 year ago
Rachel put him in his place. Period
UlriQ 3 years ago 3
Listen carefully to Frum's words. The feigned outrage over discourse issues is just an excuse to let out some steam. He's pissed that his party is losing its grip on the country and even moresothat the Dems will for the first time in a decade have the power to push their own agenda. He's pissed off and took it out on the nearest target he could find.
killerecho 3 years ago 5
The funny part is, even if he wants the media, the show, or their discussion to focus on the issues, deliberately attacking the host of a show at the opening of an interview was the worst move he could make.
What an idiot, maybe if he wanted a civil discussion, he should have told her off camera or not even have gone on the show.
EchoVelocity 3 years ago
That's some of the most uncomfortable punditry I've seen in a long time. I think From is pushing for a GoodThing(tm): a more substantive political conversation. He was a little sharp in his delivery and kinda ambushed her. Maddow seemed to play just a little hyperbole...fixing on some kind of equivalence argument. She had a point that political discourse takes many forms, satyr (laughing at our political selves) a healthy one. In that sense, From's barking up the wrong tree.But point taken.
jtigg3r 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
its obvious this bitch is a dyke
pizzledizzlewizzle 3 years ago
And your point is...?
numuzak 3 years ago
exactly...
pizzledizzlewizzle 3 years ago
im not american but im guessing its msnbc for democrats,fox for republicans.and they dont try hide it??
david7k 3 years ago 2
Actually FOX still insists with a straight face they're "fair and balanced".
killerecho 3 years ago 3
yep
whoisspiro 3 years ago
Rachel handled this jerk well enough... admit the republicans ruined this country, it's democrat to run the country stolen by conservatives.
limuzhi 3 years ago
For some reason, she thinks she's funny. She's not at all.
mrcubfan 3 years ago
...Said the sourpuss McCain supporter.
BootBazaar 3 years ago
way to go, rachel. what an asshole he is!
lindseypearlman 3 years ago
Rachel Maddow is obviously a very smart person, but this stuff is a little over her head. She just doesn't get it, she doesn't understand.
cottonbaxter 3 years ago
Haha! Rachel doesn't get it? That's why she has buried Frum and the only person from the McCain that has been on her show, Nancy Pfotenhauer.
If Rachel doesn't get it, then what does that say for the McCain posse? Hmmmm.....
BootBazaar 3 years ago
... read your comment carefully, think for a second, and than you can talk to the grownups
pizzledizzlewizzle 3 years ago
Sorry pizzledizzlewizzle, I didn't mean to talk over your head. I will break this down so you can better understand it.
1) The claim is Rachael doesn't get it.
2) She kicked the ever loving crap out of Frum and another McCain talking head.
3) Rachel clearly gets it BETTER than McCain's talking heads.
4) So assuming the initial claim is accurate and Rachel doesn't get it, yet she gets it better than McCain's talking heads, then what does that say for the McCain posse?
Are you following it now?
BootBazaar 3 years ago 2
wtf are you talking about
pizzledizzlewizzle 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Oh, wow, this guy is right on. Both conservative and liberal people like Maddow should be off the air. We should never support these people.
E0Kell 3 years ago
And I'm sure you think people like Hannity and O'Reilly and the rest of the FAUX news deserve our support right???? BWAAAAHAHAHAHA!
You really need to watch this link below, along with any other FAUX supporters out there.
OUTFOXED: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism:
/watch?v=1f-_PZd5pR8
BootBazaar 3 years ago
Nice try Frum...but no cigar.
key8422 3 years ago 2
Frum is a pompous, hypocritical ass. He rattles on about wanting 'serious' debate without acknowledging his own role in contributing to the dumbing down of American politics as Bush's speechwriter. Remember the 'axis of evil'?
I am really enjoying watching all these stuffy, self-important, right-wing windbags squirm. No one is taking them seriously anymore. They have become laughing-stocks and they don't like it!
nicholson64 3 years ago 3
Wow. Now THAT is one depressed dude.
If they ever make a sequel to "The Cooler" and William Macey can't be in it, David Frum gets my vote for the role.
kmcleod31721 3 years ago
Conservatives only want to be grown up, as here, when they think they're going to lose. Witness the aftermath of the '06 elections when they lost the House and Senate. Suddenly, they were all about "Working in a bipartisan manner. Let's be grown up about this." Before the the elections? "Bipartisanship is equivalent to date rape."
leo1321 3 years ago 2
For an example of how to state facts with probably the minimum possible sneering and sarcasm, watch some videos by Sam Harris (author of "The End of Faith" and "Letter to a Christian Nation"). Sam still riles up his opponents, but he does so only with facts, not with too much gratuitous mockery. Sam epitomizes sangfroid. Granted, on a scale of zero to Bill-O, Rachel is only about a 0.05, but still that's enough to enrage the self-righteous conservatives. Do you want to change their minds?
Teratornis 3 years ago
Anyone who doesn't go along 100% with the psycho-babble that faux puts out is enough to enrage the self-righteous conservatives.
I mean my God, you wouldn't believe the number of nut jobs I've heard saying that factcheckDOTorg is "liberal". Factcheck is one of the most non-partisan and FAIR (as in they hit on BOTH sides) political sites on the net. These people don't want fair and/or balanced, they want FAUX.
BootBazaar 3 years ago
Class act, this Rachel. Thumbs up !!
simonack65 3 years ago
Frum is a dick.
corgi37 3 years ago
People like Jon Stewart and Rachel who poke fun at politics are needed in this country. So many people are sick of politics and people like Rachel and Jon bring serious issues upfront so America can see exactly how pathetic politicians have become...mostly on the RIGHT side.
doncorleon818 3 years ago
I love how Rachel can school literally anyone and do it with class. She's a perfect example of Air America argues their points; as intelligent discussions. No shouting, no talking over, no misdirection. Tom Hartman and Rachel Maddow are plucked from the same tree. The intelligent one.
Can you imagine a similar critism if it were on the Oreilly factor??? Oreilly would realize he's losing the debate then start hurling insults 30 seconds in.
Bravo Rach! Your in a class all your own!
nakolo 3 years ago 6
You don't have to imagine Bill-O substituting volume for intelligence and coherence - you can watch Bill-O "interviewing" Sam Harris i.e. shouting at him for most of the interview slot. Sam stayed completely centered and made the most of the few words Bill-O allowed him to slip in edgewise. That's sangfroid - something everyone should aspire to.
Teratornis 3 years ago 2
Rachel handed him his ass on a silver platter... And she does it all with a smile. Gotta love it!
BootBazaar 3 years ago 3
I am a Dem, but Charlie Crist is a moderate Republican here in FL. I could understand that he would run as far as he could from McCain. Mr. Frum, for the past 27 years, your party has used hate, lies, spew, and hate. McCain's campaign has the stench of Rove's imprints.
lenegal77 3 years ago 2
Ridicule can work on the school playground. If one child is ridiculed by all his peers, he will probably submit and conform to social pressure. In politics, it's different. Opposing sides form large, insular groups that don't feel pressure to conform to the views of their opponents. Ridicule in politics mostly just reinforces what pre-existing beliefs people had. If you are a conservative, Rush Limbaugh further convinces you, but if you are a liberal, his ridicule merely outrages you.
Teratornis 3 years ago
not being able to hear what people are yelling while you incite them might be an excuse if it happened only once.. but it happened a number of times as a predictable response to her speeches!!!
rigel101 3 years ago 3
OMFG!! That guy was a straight up looser, wat a lowlife can't beleive I use to be a Republican.
sirbigam 3 years ago
"Oh, come on. Do we have to?" Sarah Palin's email to McCain about pulling out of Michigan. She really is GWB in lipstick.
pixiecherries 3 years ago
Godwin <3
maeranni 3 years ago
What kind of campaigns did your boss run in 2000 and 2004, sir? You, sir, have NO ground to stand on when discussing political discourse! Failure!
bgbreakdown 3 years ago
What was the level of discourse from YOUR Bush administration for the last eight years? You accused Dems of aiding terrorists? All it took was an op-ed for the Bush administration to delve into treasonous behavior and out a CIA agent. What was the cooperation with the Dem side of the aisle until Republican's lost control of the congress and how were those Dems treated? Who has been accused of wanting to "surrender" because they sought an end to the Iraq occupation.
bgbreakdown 3 years ago 3
He wants to have an adult conversation but like a little kid he is complaining about sarcasm, instead of dismissing it as an adult would. He sounds more like mommy, mommy look they are laughing at the GOP. What an idiot.
Excodisal 3 years ago 2
WHAT?! If you're a McCain supporter these days, you do NOT get to criticize others for "sneering and sarcasm."
Forgetting about the people at the rallies for a second, McCain himself has been incredibly insulting and sarcastic when speaking about Obama. There was also the way Palin and Giuliani mocked Obama at the RNC because he'd been a "community organizer." There was the way McCain kept saying "what Senator Obama doesn't understand..." in the first debate. And so on.
Trustme77 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
441 views... sounds like the same # of views that actually watch MSNBC..
WHo is the tool that posted this video?? lol
gbvpilgrim 3 years ago
speaking of 'tools', how does it feel that your old man and the milf are gonna loose, what's it like bailing water on the Titanic?? XD
terotolo 3 years ago 2
How pathetic Frum is. He doesn't have the guts to admit when the republicans screw up, or engage in crimes, so he starts attacking the host about being 'just as bad'.
Don't let yourself be intimidated by that little twerp, Rachel.
tigerone1970 3 years ago
Frummy is such a passive-aggressive bitch.
tigerone1970 3 years ago 3
You know, it is simply mind boggling to watch Frum sit there and say these things. Again, he was a speech writer for Bush, rabid neocon, and one of the chief promoters of going into Iraq. The Bush admin he served in is directly responsible for the nasty, partisan atmosphere in this country today. He even notes things are dicey in Afghanistan right now. Hello, who were the idiots that pushed for Iraq BEFORE Afghanistan was stablized??? But now he thinks everyone else should tone it down, LOL.
siberiandreams 3 years ago 2
What better way to learn from a mistake than to make it? Frum is right that flaming produces one result: more flaming. Anyone who has spent time online knows this. That's why Wikipedia has a "be civil" policy - it's the only want to get diverse people to work together. Politics is figuring out how to work with people who will always disagree with you. We will never have a 100% conservative or 100% liberal country. And if we did, can you imagine what a wreck it would be?
Teratornis 3 years ago
I would give your comments more credence if the example were not David Frum. Frum and his ilk did irreparable damage to this country with the neocon push for the invasion of Iraq. They lied in the runup to war, then they continued to as the situation deteriorated, while labeling anyone who disagreed or spoke out as disloyal, defeatists, etc. Now they all play cover thy ass, and gee can't we all get along. None of them has the balls to admit they were wrong. Oh and btw, I was Republican, not now.
siberiandreams 3 years ago
So David Frum is a bad guy. Does that mean if David Frum says the Earth is round, the Earth is really flat? Reality doesn't care who reports it, reality just is. Read about the ad hominem fallacy (for example, on Wikipedia). To understand the pointlessness of ridiculing your political opponents, ask yourself if Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh have converted any progressives to conservatives by ridiculing them.
Teratornis 3 years ago
You are now making less and less sense. First of all, while I don't agree with everything Rachel Maddow says, nor am I a liberal, at least she is generally polite and civil in her remarks. Taking her to task is kind of silly. Second, people like Frum do not deserve the benefit of the doubt, for good reason. They created the partisanship monster, and now gosh gee, they want everyone to tone it down. Where were these people 5 hears ago, when they gleefully sowed the seeds of all this???
siberiandreams 3 years ago 3
She is a classy woman.
David Frum, if you want to see a symbiotic relationship with negativity, turn to Fox News. Oh wait, you probably do.
hunnybfly 3 years ago 2
David Frum himself is a lying neocon scumbag. It is truly amazing, and sickening, to see how this clown now tries to hold himself out as an example of reason and fairness. He and his buddy Richard Perle were two of the leading chickenhawk lying neocons who helped push our clueless leader into Iraq. After the war started, Frum went on all the talk shows calling it "a war forced upon us", and other complete and total lies.
siberiandreams 3 years ago 2
David Frum's attempted ambush of Ms. Maddow--on her own show--was a failure.
A little desperate too
awakenedinseattle 3 years ago 6
The heckler did yell "Kill Him" But Frum creates doubt around it to dodge responsibility on behalf of Palin.
truth1234567890 3 years ago 6
If it had only been once, he may "possibly" be able to get away with that, it'd be very difficult, but he could play up the stupid roll.... But this has happened SEVERAL TIMES now, so there is no dodging it.
"TERRORIST", "KILL HIM" (twice), "OFF WITH HIS HEAD", "TRAITOR", and there may even be more than what I've heard about.
BootBazaar 3 years ago
This guy thinks that his party didn't start the problem.
LOL
vmvigilante 3 years ago 8
I love Rachel Maddow. Unfortunately, David Frum has a point when he asserts "equivalence" - namely, that a whole bunch of people who disagree with Rachel's politics will feel just as wounded, hurt, outraged, righteously indignant, etc. at her jokes and sarcasm at their expense as Rachel feels offended by the objectively worse rhetoric from the other side. Rachel should not gloat when Obama wins like the French did with the Treaty of Versailles. We saw where that led.
Teratornis 3 years ago
David Frum also slammed Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert for "unethical journalism".
ThePatriotsMaxims 3 years ago
...and France did not "win" the Treaty of Versailles. Clemenceau failed to achieve the demands of the French people, and he was voted out of office in January 1920.
French Field Marshal Ferdinand Foch, who felt the restrictions on Germany were too lenient, stated, "This is not Peace. It is an Armistice for twenty years."
It has been argued that the treaty was advantageous to Germany. The Bismarckian Reich was maintained as a political unit, and Germany escaped post-war military occupation.
ThePatriotsMaxims 3 years ago
You are absolutely correct.
Cindi3847 3 years ago
Hitler made a point of forcing the French to sign the 1940 surrender in the same rail car the French had kept on triumphal display to gloat about the 1918 Armistice. In 1918, the Allies forced the Germans to pay reparations; in 1945, the Allies gave them the Marshall Plan. In football, players get penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct when they celebrate excessively after victorious plays. Rachel Maddow entertains my infantile revenge impulses but she does not solve the problem.
Teratornis 3 years ago
Shows what an idiot Frum is. Stewart asserts time and time again that he is doing comedy, not journalism.
And Frum can't even pronounce "symbiotic" correctly.
WednesDave 3 years ago 3
Sorry, but there is no "equivalence" to mocking and THREATENING. Huge, HUGE difference.
There is no equivalence to what Rachel does and McCain/Palin inciting people at their rallies to the point where they are shouting "KILL HIM", "TERRORIST", "OFF WITH HIS HEAD", "TRAITOR", etc.
Or how about the minister who before one of McCain's speeches prayed that McCain would win so that the Obama supporters who are praying to Allah would not their their god was more powerful. OBAMA IS A CHRISTIAN BTW!
BootBazaar 3 years ago
You're not understanding my argument. I'm not saying Rachel's sneering sarcasm is morally equivalent to firebrands who incite violence, that is in some sort of absolute moral sense (and by the way, if you can logically define "absolute morality" you'd be the first). Rather, I am saying that Rachel's sneering sarcasm gets under the skin of the David Frum crowd about as much as Bill-O gets under your skin and my skin. Are you willing to grant that other people have feelings too?
Teratornis 3 years ago
Teratornis,
If we're going on morally equivalent (as in "sin" is "sin") then lying is equivalent to killing someone as they are both are morally wrong... But that is where the similarities end.
The same thing applies to calling for Obama to be killed and Rachel's satire. While Rachel may get under the skin of McCain supporters, there is no equivalence to his supporters calling for Obama to be killed on more than one occasion and what Rachel does on her show.
BootBazaar 3 years ago
Rachel Maddow and Ann Coulter are equivalently unpersuasive to hard-liners on the other side, but their respective choirs love them.
If the goal is not to change anyone's mind, but just to entertain people who already have their minds made up, then Rachel and Ann have found their respective niches.
Do you ever think seriously about how the people you disagree with can believe what they believe? And what it might take to change their minds? Or at least open them up slightly?
Teratornis 3 years ago
Teratornis, I don't see how you can make the case that Rachel being "unpersuasive to hard-liners on the other side" is at all equivalent to McCain/Palin enticing their supporters to shout THREATS towards Obama, or to boo when McCain says he's going to be respectful towards Obama.
If you want to make a completely separate point of comparing Rachel to Ann Coulter then fine, but David Frum and Rachel were talking about the comments made at the McCain/Palin rallies NOT Ann Coulter. Big difference!
BootBazaar 3 years ago
If McCain supporters are praying for their man to win, that's great. Scientific research has conclusively proven that prayer doesn't work. Prayer is what desperate people do when they know they are losing. If McCain's supporters felt no need to pray, that would indicate we are heading for another four years like the last eight.
Teratornis 3 years ago
he is really good at changing the subject
smile678 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
All this talk about "abuse of power" - can we indict the entire cast of MSNBC abusing their powers as "news" providers?
snorp73 3 years ago
I love her. She's awesome- she totally shut him down instead of just taking it as so many news organizations do.
angelcarnivore 3 years ago 4
hey patriotmaxims....isn't you picture on
your label from that video where the woman
gets a prank call and then admits to cheating
on here husband with his brother? Are you
him? That was the funniest vid on here!
rollertider 3 years ago