**Such a boring B film with so many errors in the film. One of the actors is lined up and executed at the beginning of the film. The director forgot that he had executed that character and he reappeared in the film! It has many dreadful errors in it that they have become famous.**
@Timebubbles Where you born a worthless pice of shit, or did you have to work at it? The movies coming out this year makes Merry Xmas Mr Lawrence look like a fucking shakespeare theater. There are all sorts of interesting facts about this movie.
@Failingexposed unlikely as the Willy's Jeep was designd during the war, and as such it would have been difficult to capture one before the war, and once the US started taking back territories, the Japanese weren't really in the business of capturing Willy's Jeeps, they were more in the business of fighting till the last man.
This film was adapted from a book by Laurens Van Der Post, The Seed and the Sower. He was a prisoner of war held by the Japenese during the Second World War. Whilst the story is fiction sadly the disgusting atrocities of the story are based on his true life experiences.
Does anyone think that Celliers was lying about his rank to pass as an officer, since he isn't wearing any Major rank-sldes with his uniform. And his boots aren't even bloused. I mean if he were an officer he'd care more about his appearance. These character details (or teh lack thereof) have pissed me off.
@GoEatKibbles you should be more upset about the fact that Yonoi drives around in a Willy's jeep. You pick on tiny details , but you miss the most obvious goof of all.
Sexy Bowie, all the suffering of the prisoneers, Saint Lawrence, diabolic Japanese...Holy ideology, for a moment I almost forgot who has been the real imperialist vilain in the real world for the last centuries.
@2210ethan In addittion to being deeply bored with my commentary, dont you think there is in the movie a strong maniqueist (hope there is such a word in English) opposition between good and evil and this does not exactly match with political reality? Please, dont die of boredom!!!
Actually I think that Yonoi and even Hara are shown in quite a sympathetic light both in the film and the original book, Lawrence's words about being the 'victims of men who think they are right' are key here. Like the book and like Laurens Van Der Post's work in general, I think the treatment of the Japanese is respectful and restrained, and the flaws of Laurence and Celliers ae also honestly shown.
WTF - if you're going to publish a classic on youtube, it's not rocket science to GET THE FUCKING SYNCHING right. if it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing at all. francheval you are an utter cock. hang your head in shame.
what a wonderful explanatinion, I could'nd say any more ,you have summed this film up! and Im not a David Bowie fan, but in this film, he shone a light of HUMANITY! the seed , and the seed sower , wonderful story of courage great film!
love this movie- my father who was Dutch was a pow in a Japanese concentration camp as well- was wounded and spent two years in the camp in severe conditions working on bridges and such until he was liberated by the Allied Forces.
@ellogoods - The Japanese were quite barbaric/cruel in their treatment of others during WWII (though it's quite arguable whether those following orders did so willingly). I think anyone who survived being captured or taken over by them are very lucky to have survived. Unfortunately, the US now condones some of the same barbaric/cruel behavior they executed Japanese soldiers for. Hypocrisy is especially bad when the military is told to be so.
You want an example? The unjustified atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki resulting in the indiscriminate murder of hundreds of thousand of civilians.
@redword2007 Well, the answer to your question lies in the answer to mine, but never mind.
Here goes: If the war had continued, many more people would have died, and most of them would have been Japanese civilians. The bombs (one targeting a city with a military HQ, one targeting an industrial centre) shortened the war, therefore they saved lives. Hope this helps.
No it doesn't help. The fact is you don't know what would have happened in different circumstances. How could you?
Do you not see the immorality of your position? You believe that killing 200,000 innocent civilians is a way of "saving lives." You remind me of the US officer in Vietnam who said: "we had to destroy the village in order to save it."
First, the quotation was about a city. And Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not destroyed to save Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They were destroyed to save other cities, other peoples.
Look at what happened on Okinawa- 100, 000 civilians died on those small islands. Look at the mass suicides of Japanese civilians on Guam and Saipan. The mainland would have been far, far worse. Is that so hard to grasp?
In fact in its original form Peter Arnett refered to a "town", but in popular parlance it is always a "village."
Japan was defeated militarily and desperate to negotiate the terms of a surrender. As Dwight Eisenhower said in 1963: "the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing ... I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon."
So you know better than Eisenhower. How about General Douglas MacArthur? He argued that the bombs were unecessary from a military point of view. He said: "My staff was unanimous in believing that Japan was on the point of collapse and surrender."
Lots of the military top brass were disappointed when they heard about the bomb. MacArthur was angry that he wasn't consulted, he would have liked the glory of invading Japan himself (Operation Downfall, Operation Coronet). He also said that the Japanese were on the point of collapse in the Phillipines and Borneo earlier in the war, and he was wrong there too. Any invasion of Japan would cost far more than 200, 000 lives.
You simply restate the same thing again. I'm not aware of any reason why your view should be considered important. Eisenhower and MacArthur on the other hand are clearly very important.
How about Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to Presidents Roosevelt and Truman? He said: "It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan ... The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender."
Eienhower was responsible for planning the Pacific campaign when he was Chief of the War Plans Division in Washington. MacArthur was also one of the leading figures in that campaign and was the individual selected to accept Japan's surrender. Thier views matter because they are two of the most senior figures involved and both were at the centre of these events.
You have simply relied on conjecture. Do you have any evidence to support the claims you are making? This discussion is very one-sided and unless you have something more substantial there isn't much reason for continuing it.
Well, if you feel that it's just 'conjecture' perhaps you have your own ideas about what would have happened if the bombs were not used. Feel free to enlighten me anytime.
It's not that I "feel" it is conjecture. A series of claims without any substantiation is by definition conjecture. And it just isn't very interesting.
Hardly without substantiation; anyone even passingly familiar with
-the Japanese reaction to Potsdam,
-the plans for the invasion of the mainland,
-the level of starvation in Japan, the casualties on Okinawa and Iwo Jima,
-the plans for the defence of Japan by civilians,
-the numbers of Japanese fighting elsewhere etc,
can reasonably assert what would likely have happened if the war had continued- perhaps you have some of your own ideas? Feel free to share them if you do.
PS - Bowie singing "Forbidden Colours" after a line such as "I wish I could sing" would very likely have made him somewhat comical. In that respect he was better off remaining out of the music arrangement.
Sakamoto's lisp and poor acting actually made Yonoi more believable as a man suffering deep inner turmoil.
What is also interesting is the reference to Celliers as "demon". In Manga/Japan blond hair is indeed synonymous with the supernatural. InuYasha and Naruto are two examples in the manga comics culture
@Jacobus180670 sakamoto is a great actor i don´t get why you are saying his poor acting. have you seen the movie the last empero 1987? that´s a fantastic movie and sakamoto played the sinister masahiko amaksu an amazing preformance he made.
i agree. know, i whats this movie when i whas about 8 years old ( now 29 from holland ).i always remember it. but when i look it now. there so much beautiful culture in it. the oner and respect. we dont know that in europe, really great ( and of course the music is super }
Is Ryuichi Sakamoto one of the actors in this movie or is he just the musical scorer? I'm confused. There's an upload of Forbidden Colours done by Ryuichi himself on piano & I love it - really!
yonoi is'n so calm as should be real samurai, excuse my english. sakamoto is greatest composer, but bad actor. the kiss is imperialistic, yes, and it's very sad. if they could show mutual depressed passion but Jack Celliers' character is too Freudian for that. I'd love to read original novel cause relation between europe & japan, between men who are so different - that's really interesting
I agree that Sakamoto is not a great actor - bless him - but a) the samurai were abolished as a class in 1869, and the religion that inspired them was suppressed: there were therefore no "real" samurai in the Japanese imperial army, and the samurai-like code adopted by the imperial military was a decadent rehashing of bushido ideals; b) where do you get the idea that samurai were "calm"? and c) Why is the kiss imperialistic?
a) agree. b) that's my stereotipe, I guess, but nevertheless for samurai duty should be above feelings. that's the main conflict in character of capt. Yonoi. c) because he's not "express love" or just fight, but he's using peculiarities of japan culture to stop (to destroy) the enemy. He may be in love also, this may be Christian allusion, but all the same but there is some imperialistic in this kiss to me.
Reading other posts, I see where the "imperialistic kiss" idea comes from... Misunderstanding of what the movie is about, in my opinion, but no room for that discussion here.
My point about samurai is that you're referring to an ideal, and I don't believe the reality was EVER like that. I've lived in Japan now for 21 years and image and reality are SO different in Japanese culture that they even acknowledge it themselves with a special vocabulary barely translateable in, for example, English.
Well, let's discuss it here then or u may mail me (dykevpalto gmail com). I'd really love to hear your opinion of what this movie is about.
At one side because it interests me very much, on the other side I'm going to write some texts about it and your experience is the one I was looking for. Because here, you're right, there's nothing except extracts of knowledgement and suppositions of what is Japan indeed.
I'm also agree that i'm referrin' to an ideal. but i guess Yonoi is also referrin' to an ideal that never existed. And it one of the ideas that Oshima wanted to illustrate, isn't it?
Pity no one told the cast & crew that - they'll been saying on film documentaries that he had a childhood in New Zealand for years - it looks like New Zealand & the kid brother has a NZ accent. And why would the childhood flashback have anything to do with the war???
get the fucking reality. who buy Japs shits nowadays.. only consumed by some ignorant European or American or Japanese Korea electronic wins over Japan.. that is to be definetly ture.. why? read the newspapers.. Japan only win over Korea in Game player, camera, Car, note book, thats all other areas, you are lossing every grip. haha.. seriously.
some of you intellectuals make one want to hurl. those japanese bastards got everything they demanded. they wanted a war, they got one. they got it shoved right up their nipponese asses.
What a great scene! I watched the film more than 20 years ago and read the novel "The Seed And the Sower" by Laurens van der Post. But it's every time a little shock, when Celliers (David Bowie) - being conscious of Yonois depressed love to him - gives him (Ruyichi Sakamoto) the kiss. I love this film.
I believe we are losing our way people. This clip is about what happens when sadistic, evil behavoir meets Unconditional Love. Just like the Commanders subordinates, evil will shriek in horror and resort to physical violence because it knows no better. But...in the words of Dr. Peck "Love soaks up evil like a sponge without corrupting itself. And everytime time it does, the balance of Power in this world and the next,shifts a little more. I wish you all Peace.
onebeautifulman, I am afraid you didn't get the movie nor the book (if you ever read it). Celliers had issues with letting his little brother down, didn't have much of a regard for his own life anymore and tried to redeem himself with the kiss that destroyed Yonoi. Because Yonoi thought he would see (or that is what he told himself to explain his fascination with Jack) samurai spirit in Celliers behaviour and was in love with him. Yonoi lost his honour because he couldn't stop Celliers.
@MsHyde1 :We do often fall in love with the most ujnexpected person....in Yanoi's case it's even more of a 'double horror"- his country's enemy, and a 'gaijin' one at that. Life works in mysterious ways.
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Please tell me what the fascination is with Bowie. The movie is really about Yonoi's inner conflict. Look at the way he is made up. He is stunningly beautiful. Bowie, on the other hand, is made to appear as the ever-venerated Euro type, and in this the film plays to that colonialist attitude that white Euro males are the standard of beauty. Well, no, they aren't.
I was so hoping that Yonoi would kill the captain. What an annoying pip-pip British asshole.
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I am on the same opinion. the kiss was just because the english asshole wanted to provoke the japanese officer. i wasn't sad at all that he died.
and yeah, i would have fainted too because bowie was really disgusting... Yonoi fainted of anger: he couldn't understand what happened: he was a fine japanese gentleman with all the strictness and cruelty what a IIWW jap officer and a samurai needs. i respected him.
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Exactly. Good perspective. Bowie's kiss was all about imperial control and knowingness.
His provocation was at once an assertion of presumed superiority and a cunning that exploited Yonoi's sublimated homosexuality, to prove that he, the emblem of white British, hetero colonialism, would live on even if he died. You know, it's that "There'll always be an England" crap.
well considering the crap you just wrote i would expect it would suit you just fine. Major celliers had the courage to sacrifice himself to save his commanding officer out of choice!!! Unlike the japanese who couldnt distinguish the difference between courage and obedience....
Now there's a good counter-argument: "the crap you just wrote." Wow. Of course, you couldn't refute the argument, which is why you wrote the equivalent of "nyah nyah." Very ten-year-old of you.
But I will, unlike you, address what you wrote: Celliers had some guilty hang-up about abandoning his brother and so now he gets a chance to redeem himself. It's all very pip-pip-god-and-country jingoism, where Cellier's personal becomes expressed as "heroic." Now THAT is a load of "crap."
Yours is an interesting interpretation, but if you consider the source materials -- "The Seed and the Sower" and "The Night of the Full-Moon", it is unlikely to be what a Japanese director intends. Even just internally, the film very obviously pits the sympathetic and culturally aware Lawrence against the pip-pip stiff-upper lip what ho where's the fox types, and Celliers is clearly a mate of Lawrence's. BTW, why do you assume Celliers is hetero? My sense is that the attraction is mutual.
I'm keen to understand your chain of reasoning. Why would he want to provoke him? How could that help?Wouldn't that lead, needlessly, to more prisoner deaths?
I wouldn't have fainted, I would have laughed. In fact, have you, or anyone else, ever fainted with anger?
Yonoi is indeed a fine Japanese gentleman, but why should such a person need cruelty? Can you direct me to something in the samurai tradition that extols cruelty?
a samurai tradiotion has another meaning of being fine: you have to commit anything needed for your leader and commander, no matter what. if cruelty is needed than do it. You would have laughed but being a samurai Yonoi had to be vry seriously committed to his lord and commander, the Japanese emperor. Seriously. Jack the Stripe provokes him because he wants to seem a hero for his mates, and knows that evrythings is gone anyway, so why not provoke the yellow enemy?
Have you seen the whole film? Have you considered the possibility that your view may be jaundiced by your anti-Western views (historically justified though these may be) and that your understanding of "samurai" might be all wrong? If you consider the film and all its characters, its title, the source materials and the fact that its director was Oshima, your interpretation seems simply incredible. Perhaps Oshima failed, but there can be no doubt that he would have repudiated your interpretation.
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I saw the whole film. I am not really anti-Western, as I am from Europe, too. I just somehow can't suffer the arrogance of "white people", means us. If Oshima repudiates me then I am ready. ;-)
Our "fascination" with Bowie lies in his complete individuality; the refusal to subject himself to anyone's stereotypes - playing with ideas of gender, sexuality, beauty, music genres and persona.
He is not a "Euro type." He is not, Calvintoronto, any "type."
And that is precisely the point and significance of David Bowie and why he has lasted and lasted.
That's funny. I thought we are watching a movie with actors, not a movie about David Bowie. Your comment makes no sense in context of the movie (though I would agree that it makes sense if one is thinking about Bowie the music and actor).
When your head clears up a bit, dear, write back if you think you can actually address the questions I raise.
You specifically asked the question of what our fascination was with David Bowie....not with Jack Celliers... Hence my response.
That aside, your bitter rage cannot really stem from a film. Reassess your life and try and figure out what is wrong. Whatever can it be that ails you so?
Hahaha....."bitter rage".....methinks you're projecting your own angst, cookie. I'm quite amused by people like you who barge in and start yelling simply because they've misinterpreted what I've written and because they have their own strange agenda.
Please reread what I said in context. "What is the fascination with Bowie's CHARACTER?" is what the sentence clearly implies, not the fascination with David Bowie, actor and musician.
It's funny how ALL your posts are so sour...not just the ones where you're replying to me. Perhaps, just perhaps, it's you and not me. Take a good long look in the mirror!
Come to Japan: it is heartbreaking to see how pervasive is the "white Euro males [or females] are the standard of beauty" attitude. I know folk who, unable to afford surgery, tape their eyelids at night to suppress that Asian fold.
You refer to Yonoi's "inner conflict" -- surely, part of this is his love for Celliers? When released commercially, the theme music was called "Forbidden Colours", a reference to Mishima's novel on the incompatibility of gayness with the "modern samurai" ideal.
calvintoronto, I think the movie makes it pretty clear that both men are a bit unusually attractive. In the book it is even mentioned that Celliers and Yonoi were like birds of the same kind, admiring each others beautiful feathers.
honestly if i had a father like capt. yonoi or if i had to be in a prisoner camp with capt. yonoi i will kill myself. he is so strict and cruel at the same time.
@foutainheart No dude, sorry to disappoint you, but it isn't just another faggots' love story. It's a story of love and forgiveness *between races* that because of wicked and sad twists of destiny had to fight and hate each other when the primary feelings were of sympathy and respect for each other. Or are you going to state that Lawrence cries at the end of the film because he was also in love with Sgt. Hara, and that when Cellier says "what a funny face and what beautiful eyes" he loved Hara..
i so totally wanna c this movie and i love the bit where bowie say "its so quiet i wish i could sing" ha ha lol i dont like the bit where they punch bowie that breaks my heart :(
He faints, because during the time, any sort of homosexual showing was met with hostility, and in the prison camp, you were executed for such showings. The guard, if they showed any, got off easy. But the prisoners were killed. David, or John as his character is named, was trying to show a 'make love not peace' guester, made him faintish...because Yonoi had grown feelings towards John, and he couldnt bring himself to harm him by sword.
Its a very..touching/Sad scene really. Recommend you see!
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**Such a boring B film with so many errors in the film. One of the actors is lined up and executed at the beginning of the film. The director forgot that he had executed that character and he reappeared in the film! It has many dreadful errors in it that they have become famous.**
PigsyCyberBully 4 days ago
I always think "No More War". David snd Sakamoto play silent music.
Grade1961 1 month ago
@Timebubbles Well there is allways that.
Olebull93 3 months ago
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wuckle 3 months ago
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wuckle 3 months ago
@Timebubbles I fart in your general direction.
Olebull93 4 months ago
I can translate it into Spanish?
mistermiscarol99 4 months ago
@Timebubbles Where you born a worthless pice of shit, or did you have to work at it? The movies coming out this year makes Merry Xmas Mr Lawrence look like a fucking shakespeare theater. There are all sorts of interesting facts about this movie.
Olebull93 4 months ago
@Olebull93
do not write so much nonsense you stupid cunt..
PigsyCyberBully 4 days ago
一部とはいえこの映画がアップされていて助かった。この映画が当時日本でヒットしたことを外人に伝えるのになかなか手間取ったから。百聞は一見にしかずとはよく言ったものだ。
セリアズはヨノイ大尉の「君の友人には失望した。」という言葉をローレンスから間接的に聞いて人間的に覚醒したのだ。
アップした人に感謝。
EXCEED1111 5 months ago
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EXCEED1111 5 months ago
坂本がホモっぽく見える
lipton547 5 months ago
The formation is beatiful, a japanes soldier would comit suicide before be taken a hostage.
Olebull93 5 months ago
淡々と、音楽は少し大げさな感じがします。
モーホーの域もあるようで、ほんとつまらない。
kfz222 6 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
なんじゃこれ!? この映画見たことないでストーリーが良いかどうか分からんけど、
このシーン最悪。大島渚の映画を見たことないけど、このシーンだけでショボイ監督と判断した。例えこのシーンにどんな意味があったとしてもなんじゃこの演技。 戦場のメリークリスマスをYoutubeでたまたま聞いたのでWikipediaで検索したらなかなかおもしろそうな映画と思ってYoutubeで検索したけど、ラスト侍より寒いシーン。 この映画全部見るとおもしろいの? けどファンの人でもこのシーンは最悪って思うやろ?
maritschie 8 months ago
@maritschie
にわかに全く受けないのは大島渚の良いところ
mtktktu 6 months ago
@Failingexposed unlikely as the Willy's Jeep was designd during the war, and as such it would have been difficult to capture one before the war, and once the US started taking back territories, the Japanese weren't really in the business of capturing Willy's Jeeps, they were more in the business of fighting till the last man.
svandamme76 8 months ago
My uncle is in this scene... so random.. but check out MY CHANNEL for song covers!
jadepenrose 9 months ago
This film was adapted from a book by Laurens Van Der Post, The Seed and the Sower. He was a prisoner of war held by the Japenese during the Second World War. Whilst the story is fiction sadly the disgusting atrocities of the story are based on his true life experiences.
westpenninewoman 9 months ago
mmm
I can't read the story
I need Japanese subtitle(--;
klaviersonate97 9 months ago
Does anyone think that Celliers was lying about his rank to pass as an officer, since he isn't wearing any Major rank-sldes with his uniform. And his boots aren't even bloused. I mean if he were an officer he'd care more about his appearance. These character details (or teh lack thereof) have pissed me off.
GoEatKibbles 9 months ago
@GoEatKibbles you should be more upset about the fact that Yonoi drives around in a Willy's jeep. You pick on tiny details , but you miss the most obvious goof of all.
svandamme76 9 months ago
Sexy Bowie, all the suffering of the prisoneers, Saint Lawrence, diabolic Japanese...Holy ideology, for a moment I almost forgot who has been the real imperialist vilain in the real world for the last centuries.
juberra 10 months ago
@juberra
*Yawn* do enlighten us.....
2210ethan 10 months ago
@2210ethan In addittion to being deeply bored with my commentary, dont you think there is in the movie a strong maniqueist (hope there is such a word in English) opposition between good and evil and this does not exactly match with political reality? Please, dont die of boredom!!!
juberra 10 months ago
@juberra
Actually I think that Yonoi and even Hara are shown in quite a sympathetic light both in the film and the original book, Lawrence's words about being the 'victims of men who think they are right' are key here. Like the book and like Laurens Van Der Post's work in general, I think the treatment of the Japanese is respectful and restrained, and the flaws of Laurence and Celliers ae also honestly shown.
2210ethan 10 months ago
who wouldnt want to kiss Sakamoto or to be kissed by Bowie?damn
i have the hots for Yonoi, a harsh man with a gentle side. :) amazing movie.
bananaonmilk 1 year ago 4
@bananaonmilk Spot on!
TheOldEchoes 1 year ago
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bananaonmilk 1 year ago
I'm not sentimental as Captain YONOI.
AtsEn0601 1 year ago
Best way to stop an execution : kiss the executioner :)
twod004 1 year ago
Guys calling them gay people! Read the original novel!!!
novagazer 1 year ago
Sakamoto when he was younger! Ah! :)
k072193 1 year ago 9
the sick prisoners scene looks like me and my mates after a night on the town!......TAXI!.......
FSXISCOOL 1 year ago
WTF - if you're going to publish a classic on youtube, it's not rocket science to GET THE FUCKING SYNCHING right. if it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing at all. francheval you are an utter cock. hang your head in shame.
juliusgb 1 year ago
Does anyone else out there think this is much better than Ai No Corrida?
edmund184 1 year ago
he was in love with humanity
micknewcastle 1 year ago 3
My uncles the dude holding up the dude with no arm at 5:07
jadepenrose 1 year ago 2
what a wonderful explanatinion, I could'nd say any more ,you have summed this film up! and Im not a David Bowie fan, but in this film, he shone a light of HUMANITY! the seed , and the seed sower , wonderful story of courage great film!
Herman6644 1 year ago
eh....
a spoiler >__________<
DaliyaVector 1 year ago
love this movie- my father who was Dutch was a pow in a Japanese concentration camp as well- was wounded and spent two years in the camp in severe conditions working on bridges and such until he was liberated by the Allied Forces.
ellogoods 1 year ago
@ellogoods - The Japanese were quite barbaric/cruel in their treatment of others during WWII (though it's quite arguable whether those following orders did so willingly). I think anyone who survived being captured or taken over by them are very lucky to have survived. Unfortunately, the US now condones some of the same barbaric/cruel behavior they executed Japanese soldiers for. Hypocrisy is especially bad when the military is told to be so.
xnonsuchx 1 year ago
@xnonsuchx
The US was equally as adept at cruel and barbaric behaviour during WWII. It is not just a recent phenomenon.
redword2007 1 year ago 2
@redword2007
'equally'?
What are you on about?
2210ethan 10 months ago
@2210ethan
You want an example? The unjustified atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki resulting in the indiscriminate murder of hundreds of thousand of civilians.
redword2007 10 months ago
@redword2007
How many civilians would have died if the war had continued?
2210ethan 10 months ago
@2210ethan
Are you attempting to justify indiscriminate mass murder?
redword2007 10 months ago
@redword2007
I believe the bombings were justified.
Now, you answer my question please: How many civilians would have died if the war had continued.
2210ethan 10 months ago
@2210ethan
It is very arrogant of you to insist that I answer your questions without answering mine.
I'm waiting to hear how you justify the indiscriminate mass murder of hundreds of thousand of innocent civilians.
redword2007 10 months ago
@redword2007 Well, the answer to your question lies in the answer to mine, but never mind.
Here goes: If the war had continued, many more people would have died, and most of them would have been Japanese civilians. The bombs (one targeting a city with a military HQ, one targeting an industrial centre) shortened the war, therefore they saved lives. Hope this helps.
2210ethan 10 months ago
@2210ethan
No it doesn't help. The fact is you don't know what would have happened in different circumstances. How could you?
Do you not see the immorality of your position? You believe that killing 200,000 innocent civilians is a way of "saving lives." You remind me of the US officer in Vietnam who said: "we had to destroy the village in order to save it."
redword2007 10 months ago
@redword2007
First, the quotation was about a city. And Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not destroyed to save Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They were destroyed to save other cities, other peoples.
Look at what happened on Okinawa- 100, 000 civilians died on those small islands. Look at the mass suicides of Japanese civilians on Guam and Saipan. The mainland would have been far, far worse. Is that so hard to grasp?
2210ethan 10 months ago
@redword2007
In fact in its original form Peter Arnett refered to a "town", but in popular parlance it is always a "village."
Japan was defeated militarily and desperate to negotiate the terms of a surrender. As Dwight Eisenhower said in 1963: "the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing ... I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon."
redword2007 10 months ago
@redword2007
Easy for a nice old man to say in 1963.
The simple fact is that they were not ready to surrender, except on terms that were ridiculous.
'Defeated militarily' Maybe in some places, but not in others. If the war had continued far more would have died, don't you agree?
2210ethan 10 months ago
@2210ethan
So you know better than Eisenhower. How about General Douglas MacArthur? He argued that the bombs were unecessary from a military point of view. He said: "My staff was unanimous in believing that Japan was on the point of collapse and surrender."
Think you know better than him too?
redword2007 10 months ago
@redword2007
Lots of the military top brass were disappointed when they heard about the bomb. MacArthur was angry that he wasn't consulted, he would have liked the glory of invading Japan himself (Operation Downfall, Operation Coronet). He also said that the Japanese were on the point of collapse in the Phillipines and Borneo earlier in the war, and he was wrong there too. Any invasion of Japan would cost far more than 200, 000 lives.
2210ethan 10 months ago
@2210ethan
You simply restate the same thing again. I'm not aware of any reason why your view should be considered important. Eisenhower and MacArthur on the other hand are clearly very important.
How about Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to Presidents Roosevelt and Truman? He said: "It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan ... The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender."
redword2007 10 months ago
@redword2007
I'm aware of these quotes that you are using. Are you aware of any member of the Japanese war leadership who was proposing surrender?
2210ethan 10 months ago
@redword2007
And ps, why should Eisenhower's views about the Pacific War of MacArthur's estimate of Japan's political leadership be considered important?
2210ethan 10 months ago
@2210ethan
Eienhower was responsible for planning the Pacific campaign when he was Chief of the War Plans Division in Washington. MacArthur was also one of the leading figures in that campaign and was the individual selected to accept Japan's surrender. Thier views matter because they are two of the most senior figures involved and both were at the centre of these events.
redword2007 10 months ago
@2210ethan
You have simply relied on conjecture. Do you have any evidence to support the claims you are making? This discussion is very one-sided and unless you have something more substantial there isn't much reason for continuing it.
redword2007 10 months ago
@redword2007
Well, if you feel that it's just 'conjecture' perhaps you have your own ideas about what would have happened if the bombs were not used. Feel free to enlighten me anytime.
2210ethan 10 months ago
@2210ethan
It's not that I "feel" it is conjecture. A series of claims without any substantiation is by definition conjecture. And it just isn't very interesting.
redword2007 10 months ago
@redword2007
Hardly without substantiation; anyone even passingly familiar with
-the Japanese reaction to Potsdam,
-the plans for the invasion of the mainland,
-the level of starvation in Japan, the casualties on Okinawa and Iwo Jima,
-the plans for the defence of Japan by civilians,
-the numbers of Japanese fighting elsewhere etc,
can reasonably assert what would likely have happened if the war had continued- perhaps you have some of your own ideas? Feel free to share them if you do.
2210ethan 10 months ago
@redword2007
I see you've moved on to enlightening viewers of the Libya videos with your wisdom. Probably for the best.
2210ethan 10 months ago
Brillianter Film. 1000mal besser als "die Brücke am Kwai"
Aronas76 1 year ago
たとえ一対集団の戦いになろうが、「義をみて成さざるは勇なきなり」とばかりに、一人でも村人を救いに行ったセリアズに、与野井は武士道精神に相共通する部分を見出し、心打たれてセリアズを守ったのだろう。
上映当時のキャチフレーズは「男騒ぎのメリークリスマス」だったかな。
それにしても坂本龍一の与野井大尉もデビットボーイのセリアズもかっこいい。
EXCEED1111 1 year ago
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strawberrypanic81 1 year ago
PS - Bowie singing "Forbidden Colours" after a line such as "I wish I could sing" would very likely have made him somewhat comical. In that respect he was better off remaining out of the music arrangement.
Jacobus180670 1 year ago
Sakamoto's lisp and poor acting actually made Yonoi more believable as a man suffering deep inner turmoil.
What is also interesting is the reference to Celliers as "demon". In Manga/Japan blond hair is indeed synonymous with the supernatural. InuYasha and Naruto are two examples in the manga comics culture
Jacobus180670 1 year ago
@Jacobus180670 sakamoto is a great actor i don´t get why you are saying his poor acting. have you seen the movie the last empero 1987? that´s a fantastic movie and sakamoto played the sinister masahiko amaksu an amazing preformance he made.
reiAYANAMI1992 11 months ago
公開当時、日本人として与野井大尉の行動は理解はできた。いい悪いは別にして。
isoda67 1 year ago
what is this movie about? why did the American kissed the Japanese Officer?
luftwaffe789456123 1 year ago
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StarTux 1 year ago
........Things of the Love....!
edestci 1 year ago
nice one... respect... always counts....
bastion87 1 year ago
what is the name of the song after 7minuts please anyone
stellaman83 1 year ago
@stellaman83 : Sowing the seed. You can get it fr the MCML soundtrack.
strawberrypanic81 1 year ago
Its seems to just be one of the incidental tracks created for the movie ... If you get the soundtrack, it'll probably be on it.
xoio 1 year ago
The most tragic scene of the film - and the best!
kautokeine 2 years ago 3
Quanta , quanta crudeltà esiste in questo mondo....
sempreilmionome1 2 years ago 3
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this kinda reminds me of world war 2 you know.. esp. the famous war hero, lim bo seng. da way he died was so torturing
Animemindchamp 2 years ago
Evil bas*ards!
westpenninewoman 2 years ago 3
There is so much 2 learn about samurai warriors.....
The culture of japan
i find it fascinating.
timrayfield 2 years ago 3
i agree. know, i whats this movie when i whas about 8 years old ( now 29 from holland ).i always remember it. but when i look it now. there so much beautiful culture in it. the oner and respect. we dont know that in europe, really great ( and of course the music is super }
huijbens01 2 years ago
Yes Ryuichi Sakamoto is captain Yonoi
Amazing music and a good actor
u tube to find out more there is also a live version of m c Mr Lawrence
amazing
hope this helps
timrayfield 2 years ago 4
Is Ryuichi Sakamoto one of the actors in this movie or is he just the musical scorer? I'm confused. There's an upload of Forbidden Colours done by Ryuichi himself on piano & I love it - really!
bob5201966 2 years ago 2
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Who would't want to be kissed by David Bowie? The man is a genius.
Isobel31Swan 2 years ago
Who wouldn't want to be kissed by David Bowie? The man is a genius.
Isobel31Swan 2 years ago 6
great mouvie. Really great. Thx Oshima
forgetmrblue 2 years ago 2
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tomeeeee1 2 years ago
yonoi is'n so calm as should be real samurai, excuse my english. sakamoto is greatest composer, but bad actor. the kiss is imperialistic, yes, and it's very sad. if they could show mutual depressed passion but Jack Celliers' character is too Freudian for that. I'd love to read original novel cause relation between europe & japan, between men who are so different - that's really interesting
dykevpalto 2 years ago
I agree that Sakamoto is not a great actor - bless him - but a) the samurai were abolished as a class in 1869, and the religion that inspired them was suppressed: there were therefore no "real" samurai in the Japanese imperial army, and the samurai-like code adopted by the imperial military was a decadent rehashing of bushido ideals; b) where do you get the idea that samurai were "calm"? and c) Why is the kiss imperialistic?
ElSasser2007 2 years ago
a) agree. b) that's my stereotipe, I guess, but nevertheless for samurai duty should be above feelings. that's the main conflict in character of capt. Yonoi. c) because he's not "express love" or just fight, but he's using peculiarities of japan culture to stop (to destroy) the enemy. He may be in love also, this may be Christian allusion, but all the same but there is some imperialistic in this kiss to me.
dykevpalto 2 years ago
Reading other posts, I see where the "imperialistic kiss" idea comes from... Misunderstanding of what the movie is about, in my opinion, but no room for that discussion here.
My point about samurai is that you're referring to an ideal, and I don't believe the reality was EVER like that. I've lived in Japan now for 21 years and image and reality are SO different in Japanese culture that they even acknowledge it themselves with a special vocabulary barely translateable in, for example, English.
ElSasser2007 2 years ago
Well, let's discuss it here then or u may mail me (dykevpalto gmail com). I'd really love to hear your opinion of what this movie is about.
At one side because it interests me very much, on the other side I'm going to write some texts about it and your experience is the one I was looking for. Because here, you're right, there's nothing except extracts of knowledgement and suppositions of what is Japan indeed.
dykevpalto 2 years ago
I'm also agree that i'm referrin' to an ideal. but i guess Yonoi is also referrin' to an ideal that never existed. And it one of the ideas that Oshima wanted to illustrate, isn't it?
dykevpalto 2 years ago
damnit,surely?
supercrazyandy 2 years ago
Pity no one told the cast & crew that - they'll been saying on film documentaries that he had a childhood in New Zealand for years - it looks like New Zealand & the kid brother has a NZ accent. And why would the childhood flashback have anything to do with the war???
DeccaQuinne 2 years ago
In the film he's from New Zealand - I'm not going to read a book to comment on a film - damit!
DeccaQuinne 2 years ago
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get the fucking reality. who buy Japs shits nowadays.. only consumed by some ignorant European or American or Japanese Korea electronic wins over Japan.. that is to be definetly ture.. why? read the newspapers.. Japan only win over Korea in Game player, camera, Car, note book, thats all other areas, you are lossing every grip. haha.. seriously.
drahn1275 2 years ago
I really love this film. it's just...amazing
thx for the upload
wavy2756 2 years ago 4
Amazing film . Bowie is great in it :)
BowieNutter 2 years ago 2
The masks of character in war don't need applauding audience, I think.
kautokeine 3 years ago 2
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some of you intellectuals make one want to hurl. those japanese bastards got everything they demanded. they wanted a war, they got one. they got it shoved right up their nipponese asses.
matapan50 3 years ago
What a great scene! I watched the film more than 20 years ago and read the novel "The Seed And the Sower" by Laurens van der Post. But it's every time a little shock, when Celliers (David Bowie) - being conscious of Yonois depressed love to him - gives him (Ruyichi Sakamoto) the kiss. I love this film.
kautokeine 3 years ago
ahha kiss of death!
blyster03 3 years ago
I love all the soundtracks this movie used.
Darthwizard 3 years ago 2
I believe we are losing our way people. This clip is about what happens when sadistic, evil behavoir meets Unconditional Love. Just like the Commanders subordinates, evil will shriek in horror and resort to physical violence because it knows no better. But...in the words of Dr. Peck "Love soaks up evil like a sponge without corrupting itself. And everytime time it does, the balance of Power in this world and the next,shifts a little more. I wish you all Peace.
onebeautifulman 3 years ago
onebeautifulman, I am afraid you didn't get the movie nor the book (if you ever read it). Celliers had issues with letting his little brother down, didn't have much of a regard for his own life anymore and tried to redeem himself with the kiss that destroyed Yonoi. Because Yonoi thought he would see (or that is what he told himself to explain his fascination with Jack) samurai spirit in Celliers behaviour and was in love with him. Yonoi lost his honour because he couldn't stop Celliers.
MsHyde1 2 years ago 23
I've not read the book - I will check it out - sounds interesting.
henry707 2 years ago
@MsHyde1 :We do often fall in love with the most ujnexpected person....in Yanoi's case it's even more of a 'double horror"- his country's enemy, and a 'gaijin' one at that. Life works in mysterious ways.
strawberrypanic81 2 years ago 4
@MsHyde1 No. I did not read the book. Thank you for your eloquence.
onebeautifulman 1 year ago
I would have fainted too
dondons1987 3 years ago
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go fuck yourself...calvintoronto...you mug
frazerrothko 3 years ago
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Please tell me what the fascination is with Bowie. The movie is really about Yonoi's inner conflict. Look at the way he is made up. He is stunningly beautiful. Bowie, on the other hand, is made to appear as the ever-venerated Euro type, and in this the film plays to that colonialist attitude that white Euro males are the standard of beauty. Well, no, they aren't.
I was so hoping that Yonoi would kill the captain. What an annoying pip-pip British asshole.
calvintoronto 3 years ago
Clearly the subtleties of the movie are lost on you sir!
MohummedsM8 3 years ago 4
you made me laugh..but you are so right.
dictionarypudding666 3 years ago
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I am on the same opinion. the kiss was just because the english asshole wanted to provoke the japanese officer. i wasn't sad at all that he died.
and yeah, i would have fainted too because bowie was really disgusting... Yonoi fainted of anger: he couldn't understand what happened: he was a fine japanese gentleman with all the strictness and cruelty what a IIWW jap officer and a samurai needs. i respected him.
babajaga39 3 years ago
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the japs were a pack of bastards mate.. live with it....
timebandit71 3 years ago
same as the english and the americans. you should live with it. i am not from any of them.
babajaga39 3 years ago
oh i live just fine..knowing the fact that the japs lost the war big time to the anglo alliance suits me just fine...
timebandit71 3 years ago
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Exactly. Good perspective. Bowie's kiss was all about imperial control and knowingness.
His provocation was at once an assertion of presumed superiority and a cunning that exploited Yonoi's sublimated homosexuality, to prove that he, the emblem of white British, hetero colonialism, would live on even if he died. You know, it's that "There'll always be an England" crap.
calvintoronto 3 years ago
well considering the crap you just wrote i would expect it would suit you just fine. Major celliers had the courage to sacrifice himself to save his commanding officer out of choice!!! Unlike the japanese who couldnt distinguish the difference between courage and obedience....
timebandit71 3 years ago
Now there's a good counter-argument: "the crap you just wrote." Wow. Of course, you couldn't refute the argument, which is why you wrote the equivalent of "nyah nyah." Very ten-year-old of you.
But I will, unlike you, address what you wrote: Celliers had some guilty hang-up about abandoning his brother and so now he gets a chance to redeem himself. It's all very pip-pip-god-and-country jingoism, where Cellier's personal becomes expressed as "heroic." Now THAT is a load of "crap."
calvintoronto 3 years ago
what ever it was it still took a lot of guts and thats all that matters...
timebandit71 3 years ago
Yours is an interesting interpretation, but if you consider the source materials -- "The Seed and the Sower" and "The Night of the Full-Moon", it is unlikely to be what a Japanese director intends. Even just internally, the film very obviously pits the sympathetic and culturally aware Lawrence against the pip-pip stiff-upper lip what ho where's the fox types, and Celliers is clearly a mate of Lawrence's. BTW, why do you assume Celliers is hetero? My sense is that the attraction is mutual.
ElSasser2007 2 years ago
I'm keen to understand your chain of reasoning. Why would he want to provoke him? How could that help?Wouldn't that lead, needlessly, to more prisoner deaths?
I wouldn't have fainted, I would have laughed. In fact, have you, or anyone else, ever fainted with anger?
Yonoi is indeed a fine Japanese gentleman, but why should such a person need cruelty? Can you direct me to something in the samurai tradition that extols cruelty?
ElSasser2007 2 years ago
a samurai tradiotion has another meaning of being fine: you have to commit anything needed for your leader and commander, no matter what. if cruelty is needed than do it. You would have laughed but being a samurai Yonoi had to be vry seriously committed to his lord and commander, the Japanese emperor. Seriously. Jack the Stripe provokes him because he wants to seem a hero for his mates, and knows that evrythings is gone anyway, so why not provoke the yellow enemy?
babajaga39 2 years ago
Have you seen the whole film? Have you considered the possibility that your view may be jaundiced by your anti-Western views (historically justified though these may be) and that your understanding of "samurai" might be all wrong? If you consider the film and all its characters, its title, the source materials and the fact that its director was Oshima, your interpretation seems simply incredible. Perhaps Oshima failed, but there can be no doubt that he would have repudiated your interpretation.
ElSasser2007 2 years ago
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I saw the whole film. I am not really anti-Western, as I am from Europe, too. I just somehow can't suffer the arrogance of "white people", means us. If Oshima repudiates me then I am ready. ;-)
babajaga39 2 years ago
Our "fascination" with Bowie lies in his complete individuality; the refusal to subject himself to anyone's stereotypes - playing with ideas of gender, sexuality, beauty, music genres and persona.
He is not a "Euro type." He is not, Calvintoronto, any "type."
And that is precisely the point and significance of David Bowie and why he has lasted and lasted.
jadebrush 2 years ago 3
That's funny. I thought we are watching a movie with actors, not a movie about David Bowie. Your comment makes no sense in context of the movie (though I would agree that it makes sense if one is thinking about Bowie the music and actor).
When your head clears up a bit, dear, write back if you think you can actually address the questions I raise.
calvintoronto 2 years ago
You specifically asked the question of what our fascination was with David Bowie....not with Jack Celliers... Hence my response.
That aside, your bitter rage cannot really stem from a film. Reassess your life and try and figure out what is wrong. Whatever can it be that ails you so?
jadebrush 2 years ago
Hahaha....."bitter rage".....methinks you're projecting your own angst, cookie. I'm quite amused by people like you who barge in and start yelling simply because they've misinterpreted what I've written and because they have their own strange agenda.
Please reread what I said in context. "What is the fascination with Bowie's CHARACTER?" is what the sentence clearly implies, not the fascination with David Bowie, actor and musician.
Good grief.
I won't read your next tirade, so save it.
calvintoronto 2 years ago
It's funny how ALL your posts are so sour...not just the ones where you're replying to me. Perhaps, just perhaps, it's you and not me. Take a good long look in the mirror!
jadebrush 2 years ago
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DeccaQuinne 2 years ago
Come to Japan: it is heartbreaking to see how pervasive is the "white Euro males [or females] are the standard of beauty" attitude. I know folk who, unable to afford surgery, tape their eyelids at night to suppress that Asian fold.
You refer to Yonoi's "inner conflict" -- surely, part of this is his love for Celliers? When released commercially, the theme music was called "Forbidden Colours", a reference to Mishima's novel on the incompatibility of gayness with the "modern samurai" ideal.
ElSasser2007 2 years ago
@ElSasser2007
The theme is war and gayness are
incompatibel- I think.... In every cultur...
andreasjacke 1 year ago
calvintoronto, I think the movie makes it pretty clear that both men are a bit unusually attractive. In the book it is even mentioned that Celliers and Yonoi were like birds of the same kind, admiring each others beautiful feathers.
MsHyde1 2 years ago 13
honestly if i had a father like capt. yonoi or if i had to be in a prisoner camp with capt. yonoi i will kill myself. he is so strict and cruel at the same time.
japanese1992 3 years ago
DID HE SAY "i wish i could sing"!?!?!?!?!?!?!
eliseandnicky 3 years ago 11
he fainted because he was in love with Bowie, believe it or not this film is a love story
foutainheart 3 years ago 26
@foutainheart err no, his knees buckled when he jizzed his pants 'cause he was a closet chutney ferret grooming Bowie
adamyatz 1 year ago 10
@foutainheart BULLSHIT
Wiligot 1 year ago
@foutainheart No dude, sorry to disappoint you, but it isn't just another faggots' love story. It's a story of love and forgiveness *between races* that because of wicked and sad twists of destiny had to fight and hate each other when the primary feelings were of sympathy and respect for each other. Or are you going to state that Lawrence cries at the end of the film because he was also in love with Sgt. Hara, and that when Cellier says "what a funny face and what beautiful eyes" he loved Hara..
GekkoKamen 1 year ago
Yonoi siente una atracción casi homosexual hacia bowie, por eso le incomoda la situacion. Bowie lo sabe, y con eso lo provoca.
yonoi es ryuichi sakamoto, autor del excelente tema principal de la pelicula.
entroid 3 years ago
i wanna fuck! yonoi he is fucking hot!. by the way am a girl.
japanese1992 3 years ago 2
i so totally wanna c this movie and i love the bit where bowie say "its so quiet i wish i could sing" ha ha lol i dont like the bit where they punch bowie that breaks my heart :(
BowieGirley 3 years ago
Kitano Takeshi who became a movie director goes for this movie. It is from Japan.
opop1155 3 years ago
i havnt seen the movie, but why did he nearly faint because of the kiss on the cheek
yasitapearl 3 years ago
it looks like starvation...I haven't seen it either, but he seems pretty skinny
eskimogirl212 3 years ago
oh, wait, sorry...wrong character
eskimogirl212 3 years ago
I think he was hostile to them because they were enemies which may have killed his allies.
And he wanted to think enemies is just enemies...but his wish was fainted by the kiss on the cheek.
He wanted to be hostile but can not.
jaggingxyy 3 years ago
I would faint too if I receive a kiss from Bowie
OrkelTree 3 years ago 4
He faints, because during the time, any sort of homosexual showing was met with hostility, and in the prison camp, you were executed for such showings. The guard, if they showed any, got off easy. But the prisoners were killed. David, or John as his character is named, was trying to show a 'make love not peace' guester, made him faintish...because Yonoi had grown feelings towards John, and he couldnt bring himself to harm him by sword.
Its a very..touching/Sad scene really. Recommend you see!
weapon13WhiteFang 3 years ago 7
que escena¡¡ bowie es lo maximo¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
emilycorrie 3 years ago
Bowie est un excellent chanteur!!!!bravo!!!!!
mais Que dire de son talent d'acteur !!!!!!!!!!!!!
et de son personnage : ouf j,ai chaud...MARVELLOUS humanoid WOW
manolu32 3 years ago
j aime bcp cette episode.. +5
helenabella 3 years ago
where's the rest?
clemdane 4 years ago
I've never seen Bowie looking so thin ;) must be that japanese diet ....
ArdentDesir 4 years ago 2
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f*******ck you ass hole
atomuo 3 years ago