from what i've heard here, it's clear that math is only the quantitative technique by which actuaries aim to solve real-world business challenges. of course they should be well-versed in this logic which is their hallmark, but it's still just a tool. actuaries are definitely expert problem solving professionals, not just mathematicians.
@dylkim I agree, the exams don't require anything beyond some basic calculus and probability, the math itself isn't difficult. I find it insulting when others try to compare a PhD in math (at a reputable college of course) to the actuarial exams. A PhD is purely an intellectual pursuit and requires a certain level of creativity, genius, and luck. Anyone can pass actuarial exams with enough time invested and some basic mathematical aptitude (i.e. AP Calc)
@SquirrelTrapper Actually a Math degree with a statistics concentration is an advantage to understand and master the actuarial examinations. Stochastic Process modeling ain't no AP. Neither modeling Interest theory. Besides Actuarial maths plus financial maths are related for the exeption that Actuarial maths don't involves PDE's wich is the heart of financial maths. A Phd might or might not know anything about the actuarial exams. An Actuary is a professional applied mathematical statistician.
@lvgcoolman Again, let's not get carried away with pretending that somehow an actuarial credential is the same as earning a PhD in a rigorous math program. The "math" questions that show up on actuarial exams are plug and chug type questions that never really test your understanding. I implore you to take a look at any comprehensive phd exams and you will realize how easy actuarial "math" is. EG: math.lsa.umich.edu/graduate/qualifiers/exams/11/TopologySept2011.pdf
@SquirrelTrapper Trust me candidates are not allow to bring a formula sheet to plug n chug during examinations as some typical students probably do in their math exams lol. The exams do test the candidates on understanding the concept in both qualitatative and quantitative reasoning. An Actuary would likely pass the following math phd preliminaries (with lots of studying ofcourse), Probability measure theory, stochastic processes, numerical stochastic PDE's. Exept Topology lol.
@lvgcoolman I've taken and passed actuarial exams and they are definitely nowhere close to being as difficult as math phd prelims. The most mathematical of the exams, which is 4/C, is a plug & chug exam. Sure they can give you questions that give a very cursory overview of "advanced" topics but it doesn't change the fact that these exams are a joke for theoretical math majors.
@lvgcoolman what university did you graduate from? Can you tell me with a straight face that you think "actuarial math" is difficult? Anyone that's graduated from a Harvard, Berkeley, MIT, etc. math program knows these exams are a joke. Have you taken differential manifolds? modern analysis? lie graph theory? If you have and think that actuarial "math" is harder return your diploma because you must not have learned anything.
@SquirrelTrapper Ok I never said that actuarial exams>math PHD nor in any other phd discipline. I said that a fellow designation is more like a BS/MS in mathematical statistics or actuarial science in terms of math level and scope of knowledge. Also the chances that an actuary passes a math phd preliminary say in probability&statistics, stochastic processes, and the likes (not mathematical physics, differential geometry, ect), are roughly higher than a HS AP cal student passing them.
@SquirrelTrapper But then again anyone can get a phd in math with time invested and some mathematical aptitude(ie ACAS) + BS in math gpa 3.7+. Actually most actuarial texts are written by people with actuarial credentials along with a phd in math/stats. Its a good deal to start an actuarial career after getting a BS. in math to make that cash you know. Afterwards one could study for math phd in the field of financial maths such as numerical stochastic PDEs.
@lvgcoolman You must be grossly uninformed or an internet troll if you think that "anyone can get a phd in math with time invested". Getting a phd in math from a top institution is not only immensely difficult but many have to drop out even after 8-9 years into the program because the candidate can never come up with an innovative idea to write a thesis on. The converse is completely true, anyone that has basic calculus knowledge can obtain an actuarial credential with enough time.
@lvgcoolman Have you tried discussing this with Harvard with math professors? Any academic at a top math program would literally laugh at you if you told him/her that getting an ACAS or FCAS is anywhere closed to being "harder" than getting a phd from his/her institution.
from what i've heard here, it's clear that math is only the quantitative technique by which actuaries aim to solve real-world business challenges. of course they should be well-versed in this logic which is their hallmark, but it's still just a tool. actuaries are definitely expert problem solving professionals, not just mathematicians.
dylkim 1 year ago
@dylkim I agree, the exams don't require anything beyond some basic calculus and probability, the math itself isn't difficult. I find it insulting when others try to compare a PhD in math (at a reputable college of course) to the actuarial exams. A PhD is purely an intellectual pursuit and requires a certain level of creativity, genius, and luck. Anyone can pass actuarial exams with enough time invested and some basic mathematical aptitude (i.e. AP Calc)
SquirrelTrapper 4 months ago
@SquirrelTrapper Actually a Math degree with a statistics concentration is an advantage to understand and master the actuarial examinations. Stochastic Process modeling ain't no AP. Neither modeling Interest theory. Besides Actuarial maths plus financial maths are related for the exeption that Actuarial maths don't involves PDE's wich is the heart of financial maths. A Phd might or might not know anything about the actuarial exams. An Actuary is a professional applied mathematical statistician.
lvgcoolman 3 months ago
@lvgcoolman Again, let's not get carried away with pretending that somehow an actuarial credential is the same as earning a PhD in a rigorous math program. The "math" questions that show up on actuarial exams are plug and chug type questions that never really test your understanding. I implore you to take a look at any comprehensive phd exams and you will realize how easy actuarial "math" is. EG: math.lsa.umich.edu/graduate/qualifiers/exams/11/TopologySept2011.pdf
SquirrelTrapper 3 months ago
@SquirrelTrapper Trust me candidates are not allow to bring a formula sheet to plug n chug during examinations as some typical students probably do in their math exams lol. The exams do test the candidates on understanding the concept in both qualitatative and quantitative reasoning. An Actuary would likely pass the following math phd preliminaries (with lots of studying ofcourse), Probability measure theory, stochastic processes, numerical stochastic PDE's. Exept Topology lol.
lvgcoolman 3 weeks ago
@lvgcoolman I've taken and passed actuarial exams and they are definitely nowhere close to being as difficult as math phd prelims. The most mathematical of the exams, which is 4/C, is a plug & chug exam. Sure they can give you questions that give a very cursory overview of "advanced" topics but it doesn't change the fact that these exams are a joke for theoretical math majors.
SquirrelTrapper 3 weeks ago
@lvgcoolman what university did you graduate from? Can you tell me with a straight face that you think "actuarial math" is difficult? Anyone that's graduated from a Harvard, Berkeley, MIT, etc. math program knows these exams are a joke. Have you taken differential manifolds? modern analysis? lie graph theory? If you have and think that actuarial "math" is harder return your diploma because you must not have learned anything.
SquirrelTrapper 3 weeks ago
@SquirrelTrapper Ok I never said that actuarial exams>math PHD nor in any other phd discipline. I said that a fellow designation is more like a BS/MS in mathematical statistics or actuarial science in terms of math level and scope of knowledge. Also the chances that an actuary passes a math phd preliminary say in probability&statistics, stochastic processes, and the likes (not mathematical physics, differential geometry, ect), are roughly higher than a HS AP cal student passing them.
lvgcoolman 3 weeks ago
@lvgcoolman Ooops I meant way higher not roughly lol.
lvgcoolman 3 weeks ago
@SquirrelTrapper I looks like the FSA or FCAS is equivalent to an MS in mathematical statistics or actuarial science in terms of math aptitude.
lvgcoolman 3 months ago
@SquirrelTrapper But then again anyone can get a phd in math with time invested and some mathematical aptitude(ie ACAS) + BS in math gpa 3.7+. Actually most actuarial texts are written by people with actuarial credentials along with a phd in math/stats. Its a good deal to start an actuarial career after getting a BS. in math to make that cash you know. Afterwards one could study for math phd in the field of financial maths such as numerical stochastic PDEs.
lvgcoolman 3 weeks ago
@lvgcoolman You must be grossly uninformed or an internet troll if you think that "anyone can get a phd in math with time invested". Getting a phd in math from a top institution is not only immensely difficult but many have to drop out even after 8-9 years into the program because the candidate can never come up with an innovative idea to write a thesis on. The converse is completely true, anyone that has basic calculus knowledge can obtain an actuarial credential with enough time.
SquirrelTrapper 3 weeks ago
@lvgcoolman Have you tried discussing this with Harvard with math professors? Any academic at a top math program would literally laugh at you if you told him/her that getting an ACAS or FCAS is anywhere closed to being "harder" than getting a phd from his/her institution.
SquirrelTrapper 3 weeks ago
Unless you feel passionate about math, you will get raped. Is it a good thing or a bad thing, idk.
electronikita 1 year ago