actually John 6:58 Jesus explains it's not literal food you eat then at John 6:63 he talks about it being words and the flesh profiteth nothing that this is spirit and life his WORDS - the word became Flesh he is talking about his WORD
this is just like sayng sit on a tac and rotate no one will do it unless they are assholes = christian's if it said in the bible from god or the fake jesus to sit on a tac and rotate these asshole christian's would do it along with sacrafice their own children if god asked them to which they would be doing a great mistake because their god/ jesus does not exist
Its really very simple. Jesus is the True Passover Lamb. Now, two things HAD to happen in regard to the Passover Lamb for the firstborn Isrealites to be saved. 1: the lamb had to be slain and its blood painted on the doorposts and lintel. 2: the lamb had to be eaten. So to Jesus had to be slain and eaten for our salvation.
In the year 1087 AD Pope Victor 3rd was poisoned while serving Mass its the funniest example of the false doctrine of Transubstantiation on record Pope Victor Consecrated the Chalice & the host so according to Papal dogma the bread and wine are no longer bread & wine but the body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, after he consecrated the Chalice he drank it and dropped down dead POISONED so obviously the poison in the wine did not change like RCs were led to believe this religion is a hoax.
@glizag First of all, I can find no reference to that story at all. Is it even true? Was it just made up? There's a lot of people who think that man never landed on the moon and that the Soviet Union is still alive and well...
Besides that, if Jesus were alive today, and went under a series of medical tests, what do you think the tests would reveal?
@TenderTrap86 Tests would reveal that he was NOT BREAD & WINE, it would also reveal that his Glorified body was no longer powered by blood but by spirit. ~ Luke 24:39 Flesh & bone no blood ~ because his blood was all shed on Calvary ~# so if the Jesus being offered in the mass has blood, then its not the same Jesus in heaven today.
Jesus sacrifice was once for all never to be repeated Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 10:10 ~ so of what use is a mass to anyone Since Christ did it all ONCE FOR ALL ~ I ASK
LOL! Nothing but a bunch of cannibals. "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life," (John 6:63). He did not say they were literal words; that is, He did not say that they were His actual body and blood. Catholics are violating the law of lev 17:14 which says dont eat flesh or drink blood. And the Lords supper was not A SACRIFICE! Christ died once for all, Catholics are definitely the Whore of Babylon spoken about.
@birthbysleep In Mt 16:6-8 when the Apostles misunderstand what Jesus meant by 'yeast' He corrects them. In John 6:66 Jesus allows them to walk away. When Jesus confronts Peter in 6:68, he does not say 'I understand it is symbol' but says 'to whom can we go?' They understood it as literal. Many left. Jesus never corrected them in what they understood like he did in Mt 16 or in His parables. Did Jesus allow His Apostles to believe a lie? No! They understood literal & Jesus left it at that.
@haojiesheng Transubstantiation is a violation of the incarnation since it implies that Jesus is physically present in more than one place at a time. Jesus is still a man (Col. 2:9, 1Tim. 2:5; Acts 1:11), and by definition a human being can only be in one place at a time. Jesus' divine nature is omnipresent, but his physical is not. If you deny this you deny the Hypostatic Union of Jesus.
@haojiesheng The Communion Supper is a representation of the actual sacrifice of Christ. It is not the literal body and blood of Jesus. Jesus' words were prophetical speaking of the crucifixion, thats why Jesus says "for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. 29 “But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom,” (Matt. 26:28-29)
@birthbysleep Remember the context: Passover. Jesus fulfilled/perfected the Old Passover. Participants were required to eat the sacrificial lamb. Jesus is the Lamb of God. There was no baby sheep at the Last Supper. He said "This is my body." God's word causes what it says. Therefore the bread and wine became His body and blood and He commanded/empowered His apostles to celebrate this same change of substance when He said "Do this in remembrance of me". Calvary began in the upper room.
16. The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
- How would you interpret "they will eat her flesh" ?
- How can we "eat the flesh" of a prostitute that is ruined, naked, and burned with fire?
No one literally did eat the arm of Jesus or drink his blood. That is forbiden in the OT law. If you John 6:61. Jesus says literally that the flesh counts for nothing and his words are spirit. No one has literaly eaten Jesus. Jesus words are believed and works are done when a person has eaten Jesus body. A real presence of Jesus is in the spirit. See John 4:24 Real worship of God is done in the Spirit. Jesus words here are not to be taken literally. We eat his body/blood in true spirit
Jesus said,"Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you have no life within you"."I am the living bread that comes down from heaven whoever eats this bread will live forever and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh"."This is my body.This Is my blood"."Do this in memory of me".:He who eats my body and drink my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day.These are the words of our Lord God Jesus Christ. Proud to be Catholic.
That is simply a reminder of what this religion is in the first place. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are ALL SACRIFICE RELIGIONS!!!
Do you know what you pretend to drink blood? Because once upon a time, that's what they ACTUALLY DID, and then along the way they had to tone it down a bit. But such practices still exist. Many/most major Catholic or Protestant clerics are actually Satanists. And they use the EXACT same rituals as in church. Because those rituals are Inherently evil...
Looks at John 6:63. The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. How do you explain this? The cross is real and Jesus did die on the cross. Eating Jesus body and blood are believing in Him as God's Son and trusting in Him as your savior. The Spirit give Life. Look at Mark 7 - what goes in a person body does not make it clean or unclean. So eating Jesus flesh will not make you clean. Belief will make you clean
If Christ was speaking literally about the bread being His body which would be given up for us, then why didn't they nail that piece of bread on the cross? Because Christ was speaking figuratively.
OK this is simple... if during communion bread BECOMES Christ's body & wine BECOMES his blood IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IT not stay looking like bread or wine.
Why should Jesus have to continually say 'By the way, I'm speaking metaphorically now OK?' Because he didn't think anyone would have been stupid enough to have taken him literally that's why!
P.S. I love how this clip says there are examples from verses X Y & Z proving this & NOT reading them out! Why am I not surprised?
@sitemountain For reasons that we dont know, God doesnt reveal himself in an obvious way to prove his existence. If the wine became blood physically, no one could doubt it and Goda existence would be proven. For s1500 years, all christians celebrated the mass and accepted that Christ was truly present in the bread and wine. DO you think they got it wrong?
@xxzzxx99 'For reasons that we dont know, God doesnt reveal himself' Speak for yourself! What is the difference between the invisible & the imaginary? Not a lot! You admit you can't know there is a God & yet you claim the LACK of bread becoming flesh & wine becoming blood does NOT indicate God is imaginary! Well if that doesn't what DOES?!
'For s1500 years, all christians celebrated the mass and accepted that Christ was truly present in the bread and wine. DO you think they got it wrong?' YES!
@sitemountain When you say they got it wrong for 1500 years, you imply that the apostles got it wrong, Augustine got it wrong, Tertulian got it wrong, Origen got it wrong, Aquinas, Francis of Asissi, and all the desert fathers got it wrong. Yeah right. They got it wrong, but you and Luther got it right. Do you know who popularised the idea that the bread and wine qre only symbolic? (a heresy, by the way).
@xxzzxx99 Who popularised the idea that the bread and wine are symbolic? I have no idea but whoever it was, their taste buds were telling them 'This bread tastes nothing like meat & this blood tastes nothing like blood'. Why am I not surprised?
By the way, you can't frighten an atheist by telling him he is guilty of heresy.
@sitemountain You missed my point about God not revealing himself. If you read teh rest of the sentence, it says IN AN OBVIOUS WAY. What i meant by the that is obvious to everyone, so that no one could doubt his existence. He hasnt revealed himself in this way was my point. If he revealed himself in this way, there would be no Muslims, Jews, Atheists, proptestants etc etc, and everyone would be catholic.
@sitemountain My mistake, I thought you were a protestant. I don't debate atheists anymore. if you dont believe in God thats fine, its not my problem.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God....." Exodus 20.
I have a problem, i REALLY want to take part in communion or the Eucharist every Sunday or on a daily basis but i can't do it at the catholic church as they have conflicting theologies with God's word + they want me to take classes and get baptized in their church in order for me to participate in the Eucharist and Protestant churches only perform a communion once a month that i don't consider a proper communion, what should i do? Should i look for Orthodox churches?
@bigboyburnsy Join the ctholic church!. What conflicting theologies do you speak of? There are quite a few stories of miracles attributed to catholic Eucharist. I know a guy personally who sufferred suicidal depression for many years, and was completely cured upon recieveing the Eucharist one day. There are many more.
@xxzzxx99 I wholeheartedly believe in the Holy Eucharist, that is i believe that it is his flesh and blood. The problem i have is that the Catholic Church is quiet dogmatic. I don't believe in paying indulgences, i don't believe in using rosary beads (repetitious prayer) I don't believe in following the lives of the saints (cont)
@bigboyburnsy Paying indulgences was a mistake resulting from corruption in the church.It's not a doctrine any more. The rosary is a very effective prayer, many miracles, conversions and victories have been attributed to its use. Read a book called 'the secret of the rosary" by Louis de Montford. Its amazing, and you can read it free online. There's no catholic doctrine that says you must pray the rosary or follow the lives of the saints. Pray in whatever way works for you. Meditate on scripture
@bigboyburnsy The church has to be dogmatic. Without strict just laws, societies crumble. And without a clear code that outlines the messages of Christ, there are too many conflicting interpretations of sacred scripture that dilute the true message. As catholics, we recognise that we all have different gifts from the Holy Spirit, and some people are more qualified and gifted than others in interpreting scripture (cont)
@bigboyburnsy I personally pray the rosary and find it to be a most effective prayer. There are many examples of effective repetitious prayers. . The rosary is not just a bunch of words. When prayed properly, you're supposed to meditate on a particular mystery, (which corresponds to a particular scripture). And as you know meditating on scripture can be a powerful prayer. It can be prayed in such a way as to pray with the heart, the soul and mind. (Love your God with your heart soul and mind)
@xxzzxx99 Recently i talked to my cousin about the rosary (he's catholic) he explained to me using scripture how praying the rosary is biblical and taught me how to pray the rosary, i have now been praying the rosary from time to time and i must agree, its very powerful. Though i will say it should not replace praying to God from our hearts but the rosary is a great way to meditate on the Holy mysteries of Christ and Mother Mary full of grace, God bless you!
@bigboyburnsy Glad to hear you're getting into the rosary !! Type in : "The secret of the Rosary" into google, if you have time.The whole book is written up online It an awesome book on the power of praying it.Or type rosary-centre INTO GOOGLE. (Very easy read, the chapters are like one page each, so you can read a quick story and be edified in a couple of minutes. Peace
@xxzzxx99 Glad to hear you're getting into the rosary !! Type in : "The secret of the Rosary" into google, if you have time.The whole book is written up online It an awesome book on the power of praying it.Or type rosary-centre (Very easy read, the chapters are like one page each, so you can read a quick story and be edified in a couple of minutes. Peace
@xxzzxx99 (Cont) We have had great saints in the past and it is good to look at their examples that they left for us but still at the end of the day they were still imperfect mere mortals, i would much rather follow the perfect immortal example Jesus Christ left for us.
catholics believe that when Jesus said, "it is finished" He meant that His blood sacrifice stopped at that point and now His bread and wine must take over and be offered as an unbloody sacrifice of Jesus for the sins of all. that's why they say that His blood sacrifice is ongoing in an unbloody manner. catholics have such a backward opposite understanding of His words, "it is finished". this is one of the many reasons why i left the catholic church.
@xxzzxx99. I left the RCC bcuz of: limbo, purgatory, confessing to a priest, sacrifice of the mass, immaculate conception, praying to those who have passed on, works can save us, water baptism washes away sins, the pope is the vicar of Christ, the church is built on Peter. WHERE IS JESUS IN ALL OF THIS!! ALL OF THIS STUFF IS MATERIALISM, DO-DO-DO. HUMANS TRYING TO PURIFY THEMSELVES, BALONGA!!
@bornagainsaint1 Where is Jesus in all of this? Confessing to a priest: Jesus said "for those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven". Jesus gives the apostles the authority to forgive sins on His behalf. The priests carry on that tradition. As for "works can save us", find it in the catechism, or any cannon. Otherewise, its a false representation of the catholic belief. Where is Jesus in the mass? The whole point of the mass is Jesus. Its a celebration of Jesus. He's actually present.
Respond to this video... Humans trying to purify ourselves? This is innaccurate. We co operate with grace of Christ. This means we have to try to avoid sin, and with God's help we are successful. Sometimes God purifies us completely of a particular sin in an instant, but most of the time, he purifies us gradually and requires our co operation in his work of redemption in us. We celebrate Jesus every day in the Eucharist. You ask where is Jesus? I say in his house. (tabernacle)
Respond to this video... Jesus is also in the hearts of many catholics. Perhaps you haven't met many of these 'christ filled' catholics. But i assure you there are many of them. There are many dead catholics too, and our church is far from perfect. In my country, less than 15% practice the faith. I was once a lapsed catholic also, but God brought me back, filled me with faith and His Holy Spirit
@bornagainsaint1 Humans trying to purify ourselves? This is innaccurate. We co operate with grace of Christ. This means we have to try to avoid sin, and with God's help we are successful. Sometimes God purifies us completely of a particular sin in an instant, but most of the time, he purifies us gradually and requires our co operation in his work of redemption in us. We celebrate Jesus every day in the Eucharist. You ask where is Jesus? I say in his house. (tabernacle)
@bornagainsaint1 i have never herd the "It is finished" interpreted that way, that the Euchrist now "takes over." Jesus said It is finished meaning the cup of suffering he had to drink was finished. Read Numbers 15 to see how bread and wine were offered along with every animal sacrifice - that's the relation between the cross and the eucharist - the two together make one sacrifice in God's eyes because the priest/victim is the same. See also Leviticus 2 for the true meaning of Memorial.
@1962mrpaul. John Martignoni, catholic apologist, has asked this question "since Jesus died 2000 yrs ago and cannot bleed anymore, then what saves us now?" He is referring to the sacrifice of the mass. He believes that this sacrifice completes what Jesus did on the cross - this is wrong. The cross and the sacrifice of the mass are not related. There must be a real death, and Jesus doesnt die at this bloodless sacrifice, there4 transubtantiaton isnt biblical. RC priest cannot stand-in for Jesus.
There is a difference between a sacramental real presence and a literal real presence which Jesus can only be present in heaven as the letter of Hebrews says. And also then going to the other extreme and saying Jesus is only present symbolically. Jesus is present in the eucharist in the same way He was present at the last supper when he said, 'This is my body.' 2 minutes? Can't see one can convince anyone of such a complex dogma.
ONLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, APOSTOLIC CHURCH PROVIDES ALL SACRAMENTS AND THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE - OF THE LIVING GOD - THE BREAD OF LIFE IN THE EUCHARIST!
WITH 2,000 YEARS OF TRADITION AND SACRIFICES OF CHRISTIANS TODAY WE KNOW WHAT THE BIBLE AND SALVATION THROUGH JESUS CHRIST IS.
MANY PROPHECIES AND VISIONARIES.
THE REAL MIRACLES, EFFECTIVE EXORCISMS, INCCORUPT BODIES OF SAINTS,
@skippyhippo Actually, Catholicism preaches that it is literal. It's called transubstantiation.
The only reason people now "Know" it to be symbolic rather than literal is because our modern sensibilities conflict with that particular aspect of Christian faith.
It is not supposed to be symbolic, doubting that the bread and wine are literally Christs body and blood is to doubt a major tenet of Catholicism.
Which is fine. Just realize that it's not supposed to be symbolic.
Obviously Jesus words, "this is my body" should be taken symbolically because it falls within a long list of symbolic statements Christ said: "I am the bread," (John 6:41), "I am the vine," (John 15:5), "I am the door," (John 10:7,9), "I am the good shepherd,"(John 10:11,12), "You are the world the salt, (Matthew 5:13), "You are the light of the world. (Matthew 5:14)
Symbolism is certainly part of the meaning - but then we have to ask, "*What* is symbolised ?" Symbols by their nature are *symbolic of* something, to which they point. What is the symbol here, & what does it symbolise ?
Neither - there are other possibilities than those two. "Literal" is a poor choice of words; since the Eucharist is not a text, and therefore has no *literae* (= letters). The Council of Trent says that the Lord is present "truely, really, and substantially" - not "literally". To talk about a "literal" Presence is to talk about the Eucharist imprecisely, when precision is possible & needed.
Christ would not have compared bread and wine with His eternal word simply in a symbolic sense. Jesus meant what he said, and if He didn't, we wouldn't be able to rely on anything else he said or taught. The Eucharist is also explicitly mentioned elsewhere in the Bible as the substance of bread and wine literally transforming into His body and blood.
It's Symbolic you fucking dumbass. The bible says, (not word for word) eat this BREAD as it is my body, Not Eat my body. Drink of this wine, for it is my blood. Not Drink my Blood. i mean damn i don't believe in "god" and i know this shit
It's Symbolic you fucking dumbass. The bible says, (not word for word) eat this BREAD as it is my body, Not Eat my body. Drink of this wine, for it is my blood. Not Drink my Blood. i mean damn i don't believe in "god" and i know this shit
It doesn't mean literally neither does it refer to the Eucharist or the Lord's Supper. What Jesus spoke symbolically here is: "COME TO ME, FEED ON ME, LABOR FOR THE FOOD THAT LEADS TO EVERLASTING LIFE, BELIEVE IN ME, HAVE FAITH IN THE SON OF GOD". May Jesus bless you.
@loi23916. Point well taken!!! I have often thought how wonderful it would be if I could really eat the bible so that I could reflect on & remember His word all the time. But a phsyical eating of this book wouldnt do me any good. What does help me is when I put my faith and trust in Jesus' blood sacrifice, and then He gives me a deep appreciation of Hiswords and the presence of His Holy Spirit. Then I can reflect on & remember all those promises He made for me and for others who trust Him.
Have any of you wonder why the Living God rejected the consumption of meats and the sprinkling of blood in the Old Testament?
Isaiah 1
10. Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11. To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
How do we Catholics explain John 6:63, where it says " It is the spirit that gives life while the flesh is of no avail, the words I have spoken are spirit and life." This is the verse that protestants use to refute the real prensence. Especially the part that says " THE WORDS I HAVE SPOKEN ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE. What does Jesus mean by that?
It doesn't refute it. It does however act a reminder that *mere* eating as a bodily act is of no importance - a parrot is perfectly capable of eating a consecrated Host, just a man is, but it would be a profanation to feed a parrot on a Host.
John's is a sacramental Gospel - he's very interested in Baptism & the Eucharist. The Eucharist becomes the Eucharist by spoken words, & the Spirit Who gives Life (Gen.1; 2.7; John 20:23) converts bread into the Body, & wine into the Blood
@sarahmcc28. John 6:63 means that the Holy Spirit gives us the faith to believe in His blood sacrifice which solved the sin problem, bcuz a physical eating wouldnt solve the sin problem. When He said "eat my flesh and drink my blood" He was making a very strong statement saying that we must believe in His blood sacrifice & the Holy Spirit will give us the strength and faith to believe. Those in heaven have life, but those in hell will wish they could die.
Christ is not present in the eucharist. He died once and for all 2000 years ago. Christ said "it is finished." Hebrews....."So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation
He actually is in the Eucharist, and Catholics believes that he died once and for all. Try again.
In the Old Testament, the sacrificial lamb was eaten. If not, it was not a valid sacrifice and thus the people did not received the graces of it. So think for a moment. Jesus instituted the Eucharist why? SO WE CAN CONSUME HIM BECAUSE HE IS OUR SACRIFICIAL LAMB!
@CatholicCross1393 You do realise the Old Testament sacrificial method was made redundant at the death of Jesus. Jesus died ONCE AND FOR ALL for our sins, He made the one true and perfect sacrifice. He doesn't need to be sacrificed again and again and again. YOU fail at the Bible. YOU fail at theology. The Eucharist sacrfices Jesus over and over, which doesn't need to be done. "... everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES in Him shall have eternal life..."
@wjm7259 Please stop shouting at me, that doesn't glorify God. I do drink the blood of the Son and eat His flesh, but not literally. Communion doesn't save you, just as baptism doesn't. Salvation comes from NOTHING but believing and following the Son of Man. Essentially, this argument is ridiculous. Romans 10:9 says 'If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved'. And I believe the Bible over twisted doctrine.
8. "Now you, son of man, listen to what I am speaking to you; do not be rebellious like that rebellious house. Open your mouth and eat what I am giving you."
9. Then I looked, and behold, a hand was extended to me; and lo, a scroll was in it.
10. When He spread it out before me, it was written on the front and back, and written on it were lamentations, mourning and woe.
8. For a cup is in the hand of the LORD, and the wine foams; It is well mixed, and He pours out of this; Surely all the wicked of the earth must drain and drink down its dregs.
9. But as for me, I will declare it forever; I will sing praises to the God of Jacob.
10. And all the horns of the wicked He will cut off, But the horns of the righteous will be lifted up.
12. Their banquets are accompanied by lyre and harp, by tambourine and flute, and by wine; But they do not pay attention to the deeds of the LORD, Nor do they consider the work of His hands
13. Therefore My people go into exile for their lack of knowledge; And their honorable men are famished, And their multitude is parched with thirst
14. Therefore Sheol has enlarged its throat and opened its ...
@CatholicCross1393. Jesus' blood sacrifice did away with all the OT sacrifices. There is no need to physically eat any more sacrifices. His supper was instituted to remember His blood sacrifice. There must be a real death and Jesus doesnt die in the sacrifice of the mass therefore transubstantiation is not biblical. You dont have to physically consume Him in order to get Him into your life, the Holy Spirit gives us life in Jesus' name when we believe in His blood sacrifice.
Sorry, but we don't feel that we should sit on our butts and say, "well, I don't feel like doing things for Jesus. I prayed a prayer and got saved. So I can go on sinning all I want because Jesus lubs me." No, sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high
Hebrews 10:10-14 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hebrews 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Communion is an act of remembrance and Jesus died for our sins once and for all, the perfect sacrifice. There is no putting god back on the cross for our sins. In believing that you are indeed drinking the actual blood poured out for you is putting god back upon that cross and that is unbiblical. He died once and for all the perfect death that covers our sins of yesterday, today and tomorrow. Jesus said do this is REMEMBRANCE of me.
I am not trying to shake anyone's foundation on the matter of the Eucharist but I do have one concern and that is the belief of transubstantiation. There is always this image in the church of jesus still upon the cross, but he is not there anymore. Yes he was put on the cross, but what is even greater is he died and rose again. He died the perfect death he conquered the grave, Jesus is no longer upon that cross. And the thought of Jesus' actual body and actual blood being created in every mass.
@mykalissik. I understand what you are saying. It's even hard for me to watch movies about Jesus, bcuz these actors are saying "I am the life, way, truth and resurrection". Whether someone says this in front of or behind a camera makes it uncomfortable for me to listen to. I was told by a catholic once that I am offended with transubstantiation. This angered me, bcuz that person focuses more on Jesus being in the bread & wine instead of focusing on His blood sacrifice.
Christ said "This is my Body," not as YOU say, this "overshadows" my Body. I would advise you look to what the Church teaches; NOT to what YOU say. Those who deny the Church's teaching and distort Christ's own words act as IDOLATERS of their own opinion!
1 Timothy 3:15 says that the pillar of truth is the Church, not Protestant sects!
The Bible was written and intended as an allegorical text. It is only in modern times (post-Reformation) that people have mistakenly begun to read the bible in literal interpretation. Good try though. Read more history books :)
@candie866 I'm confused, so you disagree with the fact that the Eucharist is the true body of Christ? Because we Roman Catholics have been doing this for 2000 years, so we didn't just recently started doing the whole Eucharist thing.
Jesus said "Iam the light" "Iam the door" does that mean he changes into those things? you have to look past Jesus words and derive the meaning from other sources like the pre-nicene fathers.
Also notice that God would not let us commit idolotary as bein one of the 10 commandments. Do not make a graven image on anything above or earth below and bow or worship it. Man makes the bread.
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." John 6:51
33For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."
These verse you posted and this sum up what the whole context is saying. How does Jesus flesh give us life? through the cross (him offering his flesh and blood on calvary) or through bread? It's boviously through the cross.
Jesus also said just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert so the son of man must be lifted up. Obviously there is difference between hyperbole, symbolism and literalism
Niether did he say "This is my literal flesh and blood". Just like when Jesus says "Iam the light" or "Im the door" It doesn;t mean that he is literally. When he says those things he doesn;t say "I symbolize a light" or "I symbolize a door" rather he says he is a light and door, but that doesn't mean he is. See what im saying?
If you remember what I said, I believe in the real presence and it's neither literal or symbolic. It would be idolotary for God to manifest into something made by man
Remember thats one of the 10 Jewish Commandments in Torah? "Do not make a graven image on anything above or below earth".
However, if we say the presence of Christ overshadows the bread and wine (not that it becomes internally literal flesh) The logic of Jesus words at the last supper coinciding with the Torah makes sense. Christ is still coming inside of you and nourishing your soul but its that the bread is a vessel of his presence. This is mainly what the Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans thk
It is his ressurected body and blood (since his body is not earthly anymore). His body overshadows the bread and his life giving ressurcted blood is the wine. We don't worship the elements because that would be idolotary. We worship the creator behind it. I would advise you lookin into the prenicene fathers.
So eating a piece of bread is what gets you into heaven? or is it placing faith in Jesus and turning from sin ? I wonder why Paul never preached this.
Christ said "This is my Body," not as YOU say, this "overshadows" my Body. I would advise you look to what the Church teaches; NOT to what YOU say. You write as an IDOLATER of your own opinion! 1 Timothy 3:15 says that the pillar of truth is the Church, not YOU!
WHen Jesus says Iam the door or Iam the light, does that mean he turns into it literally? Problem with Rome is that they justify there position by taking things literally, the original church (Orthodox, Rome split from them and thus the pope is now excommunictd) does not teach transubstantiation, and neither did the pre-nicene church. I would advise you to actually read what the scriptures say and not what someone else does.
If Jesus did not want to be taken literally, he would have said "It's just a metaphor!" Furthermore, when he turns to his apostles, he does not retract his statement. He simply asks them if they want to leave too
If Christ wanted it to be a metaphor wihtout telling anyone, he would have misled his pole. This would make him a liar. If God is truth, Jesus can not be God. Therefore, there are only two options: He's a liar and not God, or he is telling the truth and he is God.
Furthermore, when Christ says he is the door or he is the light, he is CLEARLY speaking symbolically, and no one thinks anymore of this. In ohn 6, we see for the first time that people take it something Christ says, litteraly.
btw I do believe in the real presence (not only that its a memorial of his sacrafice) but this does not mean its transubstantiation cause that would be idolotary and violate Jewish law cause anything that is bowed down to made by human hands.
As I said before though, no one walked away taking Jesus being the light, litteraly. They did take John 6 litteraly. Jesus does not seem to be ust talking about spirit though. In John 6 verse 55 "Amen Amen I say to you, my Flesh is true food and my blood is true drink"
But also there is another problem, where does he say his blood is wine? Therefore we cant say its referring to the Lords Supper, and also Jesus body would be ressurected not earthly anymore. But you also didn't see my question, is it eating the Lords Supper that merits eternal life and salvation or is it believing and accepting Jesus sacrafice for our sin? I would think the most logical would say this is referring to his sacrafice for us since there are holes to supper its communion
And also like I said, even if he was referring to the eucharist (most likely not) it would not be transubstantiation, likely on the lines of constubstantiation or in some way his presence otherwise it starts getting idolotary according to Torah
I would reccomend studying the pre-nicene church fathers since they didn't believe in transubstation or even a papacy. Godbless.
I could use the same argument when Jesus said that he is the light of the world; John 9:5 or a gate etc... he doesnt seem to correct himself there. Your mixing up John 6 with the last supper which is something totally different. In context of chapter 6 Jesus says the words I have spoke they are spirit and life (If literal bread were Jesus body they would only be his spirit) so thus he has to be speakin about his crucifixion. Is it the cross that brings salvation or eating bread?
According to the guy in the videos logic, that means Jesus Christ is a literal door...John 10:7 says "I am the door" not this is symbolic of but it says "I am". On his cross it said "it has been done" meaning he gave the ultimate sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins. we don't have to literally eat his flesh and blood. it is symbolic. COMPLETELY DEBUNKING THE GUY INT HIS VID! ^^
He stated his intention not to drink wine again until he came into the glory of his Kingdom. As we have seen, he refused some on one occasion, right before being nailed to the cross (Mark 15:23). Then, at the very end, Jesus was offered "sour wine" (John 19:30; Matt.27:48; Mark 15:36; Luke 23:36). But only John tells us how he responded: "When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, 'It is finished'; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit" (19:30).
He seems to have been in full possession of himself as he realized that "all was now finished." Whatever it is that "was now finished" seems to be directly connected to his utterance, which he spoke "to fulfill the Scripture." More things fall into place upon reading what followed his expression of thirst: "A bowl of sour wine stood there; so they put a sponge full of the vinegar on hyssop and held it to his mouth" (19:29)
GRADUALLY these Passover and Kingdom themes from Johns Gospel began to converge in my mind as I reapproached the question of Jesus meaning in saying, "It is finished" (John 19:30). For one thing, I noticed that my King, Priest, and paschal victim, in his "hour of glory" while suffering on the cross, made a profound gesture: "After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), 'I thirst.'"
Third, the identification of Jesus with the Passover lamb is reinforced by Johns noting Jesus bones remained unbroken, as prescribed by the law for the Passover lamb (Ex. 12:46): "that the Scripture might be fulfilled, 'Not a bone of him shall be broken'" (19:33, 36). This brings to fulfillment the words used in Johns introduction of Jesus at the start of his Gospel: "Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" (1:29).
Second, only John mentions that Jesus was stripped of a seamless linen tunic (19:23-24). The same word for "garment" (chiton) is used in the Old Testament for the official tunic worn by the High Priest in sacrifice (Ex. 28:4; Lev.16:4). This is meant to remind faithful readers that Jesus, their glorious King and Passover lamb, is also the High Priest of the New Covenant (19:23-24).
Pilates cynical response is to dress him in a purple robe with a crown of thorns and to present him to his own unbelieving people: "Now it was the day of preparation of the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, 'Behold your King!' They cried out, 'Away with him, away with him, crucify him!'" (19:14). John realized that the sixth hour was when the priests were prescribed to begin slaughtering lambs for the Passover.
irst, Jesus claim to kingship in John comes precisely at the moment when he appears weakest and most vulnerable--when he is standing accused before Pilate (18:33-37).
chf99: Not has to be sacrificed, but had to be sacraficed. Paul said "died once for all". Jesus said, "It is finished". Why isn't anybody answering me? Why do you drink water when Jesus said "you will never thirst"?
chf, Heb7:27 says Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day and He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. Heb8:3 it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. Hebrews told Jewish converts to not go back to the old Jewish system. One Jewish sect accused the church saying they dont have an alter like we do. So, we have v13:10, the fellowship of the Christians, where we offer up a sacrifice of praise.(v15)
chf, 1 Cor 11, like other scripture, should be looked at in context, instead of isolating a verse to fit your means. At the communion table, the Corinthians were in the wrong by living like the sacrifice of Christ was nothing. (not recognizing the body of the Lord)
His mission for comiing to earth is acomplished in that the price for sin is paid. Thus, man has access to God. If people have a hard time having faith to believe that, they get into idolatry; believing objects in their mass are God. Also, they excercise a system of pennance.
Thanks for your response, but do you know why Jesus skipped the fourth cup of the passover? This fourth cup symbolizes the end of the passover in the Jewish passover, however, by Jesus saying "It is finished", he is refering to the passover. He is the new unblemished lamb that takes away the sins of the world. His mission on Earth wasn't finished yet, or else his return would not be necessary a few days after. His true redemption comes on His final return.
When Christ says, "It is finished," he is saying that the Passover of the human race has been accomplished, the Law fulfilled, and communion with God restored
With profound spiritual insight, John links Jesus "hour of glory" with the supreme manifestation of his love upon the cross (John 3:14, 7:37-39, 8:28, 13:31). Following this to the end of the fourth Gospel, I began to notice several places where John deliberately weaves together various strands of Kingdom and Passover imagery in depicting Jesus trial and passion. The result was to draw a little nearer to what Jesus meant when he said, "It is finished" (John 19:30).
chf, Judas started to realize there was no money in this endeavor. He wanted an earthly king, who would kick out the Romans. He is like people who hear Christs words and cant get past the flesh. He was unable to truly fellowship with Christ and His disciples. People who cant spiritually see what the Word of God really means end up like Judas. By wanting from my heart to know the Word of God (know Christ) and not defend pre-assumed positions, I sup with Him.
Fact1; Jews were spiritually blind. Fact 2; Disciples said "This is a hard teaching" They had little spiritual clarity until Acts 2. So let me ask you, do you dring water? Do you eat food? Perhaps you should not because Jesus said, "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood will never hunger and thirst". Jesus lost most of the crowd that day (narrow road) for people will not transend from the fleshly to the spiritual. Jesus gave his body on the cross. That was enough;1st Peter 3:18
We must transend from the fleshly to the spiritual. Jesus said in those scriptures, "You will never thirst again". Did you quit drinking water?, or did you take THAT PART symbolically?
LOL, all the christian comments, blood under the appearance of wine is bullshit. Its wine that they call blood because they think it's somehow going to make a difference
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actually John 6:58 Jesus explains it's not literal food you eat then at John 6:63 he talks about it being words and the flesh profiteth nothing that this is spirit and life his WORDS - the word became Flesh he is talking about his WORD
bleedingcry 2 weeks ago
ever heard the term HOLY SHIT ! because that is exactly what it is SHIT!
royallove23 1 month ago
this is just like sayng sit on a tac and rotate no one will do it unless they are assholes = christian's if it said in the bible from god or the fake jesus to sit on a tac and rotate these asshole christian's would do it along with sacrafice their own children if god asked them to which they would be doing a great mistake because their god/ jesus does not exist
royallove23 1 month ago
Because cannabilism is a crime, a first-class felony. I would have thought that this is obvious.
JeffersonDinedAlone 1 month ago
i dont give half of a monkeys pussi
picaticatara 3 months ago
Its really very simple. Jesus is the True Passover Lamb. Now, two things HAD to happen in regard to the Passover Lamb for the firstborn Isrealites to be saved. 1: the lamb had to be slain and its blood painted on the doorposts and lintel. 2: the lamb had to be eaten. So to Jesus had to be slain and eaten for our salvation.
1962mrpaul 3 months ago
Check out John M Allegro theories, christianity is a psychedelic drug cult.
azzurevision 4 months ago
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vinskamuha 4 months ago
Read the Bible, fool.
Tommy5297 4 months ago
In the year 1087 AD Pope Victor 3rd was poisoned while serving Mass its the funniest example of the false doctrine of Transubstantiation on record Pope Victor Consecrated the Chalice & the host so according to Papal dogma the bread and wine are no longer bread & wine but the body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, after he consecrated the Chalice he drank it and dropped down dead POISONED so obviously the poison in the wine did not change like RCs were led to believe this religion is a hoax.
glizag 4 months ago
@glizag First of all, I can find no reference to that story at all. Is it even true? Was it just made up? There's a lot of people who think that man never landed on the moon and that the Soviet Union is still alive and well...
Besides that, if Jesus were alive today, and went under a series of medical tests, what do you think the tests would reveal?
TenderTrap86 4 months ago
@TenderTrap86 Tests would reveal that he was NOT BREAD & WINE, it would also reveal that his Glorified body was no longer powered by blood but by spirit. ~ Luke 24:39 Flesh & bone no blood ~ because his blood was all shed on Calvary ~# so if the Jesus being offered in the mass has blood, then its not the same Jesus in heaven today.
Jesus sacrifice was once for all never to be repeated Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 10:10 ~ so of what use is a mass to anyone Since Christ did it all ONCE FOR ALL ~ I ASK
glizag 4 months ago
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Many of Christ's disciples left Him when He told them to "Eat of his Flesh and Drink of His blood".
They are the first Protestants.
drdst17 4 months ago
Symbolic, of course. We frown upon cannibalism. Any rational, semi-intelligent human being should be able to comprehend this.
JeffersonDinedAlone 5 months ago
@JeffersonDinedAlone Oh ye of little faith. Fall into the pit that awaits you and your ilk.
drdst17 4 months ago
@drdst17 Oh, ye of little intelligence. Try to locate a trace of common sense.
JeffersonDinedAlone 4 months ago
AMEN!
Yakima5019 8 months ago
LOL! Nothing but a bunch of cannibals. "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life," (John 6:63). He did not say they were literal words; that is, He did not say that they were His actual body and blood. Catholics are violating the law of lev 17:14 which says dont eat flesh or drink blood. And the Lords supper was not A SACRIFICE! Christ died once for all, Catholics are definitely the Whore of Babylon spoken about.
birthbysleep 8 months ago
@birthbysleep In Mt 16:6-8 when the Apostles misunderstand what Jesus meant by 'yeast' He corrects them. In John 6:66 Jesus allows them to walk away. When Jesus confronts Peter in 6:68, he does not say 'I understand it is symbol' but says 'to whom can we go?' They understood it as literal. Many left. Jesus never corrected them in what they understood like he did in Mt 16 or in His parables. Did Jesus allow His Apostles to believe a lie? No! They understood literal & Jesus left it at that.
haojiesheng 8 months ago
@haojiesheng Transubstantiation is a violation of the incarnation since it implies that Jesus is physically present in more than one place at a time. Jesus is still a man (Col. 2:9, 1Tim. 2:5; Acts 1:11), and by definition a human being can only be in one place at a time. Jesus' divine nature is omnipresent, but his physical is not. If you deny this you deny the Hypostatic Union of Jesus.
birthbysleep 8 months ago
@haojiesheng The Communion Supper is a representation of the actual sacrifice of Christ. It is not the literal body and blood of Jesus. Jesus' words were prophetical speaking of the crucifixion, thats why Jesus says "for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. 29 “But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom,” (Matt. 26:28-29)
birthbysleep 8 months ago
@haojiesheng Jesus still refers to it as THE FRUIT OF THE VINE! Even after he said this is my blood. Drop your presuppositions.
birthbysleep 8 months ago
@birthbysleep Remember the context: Passover. Jesus fulfilled/perfected the Old Passover. Participants were required to eat the sacrificial lamb. Jesus is the Lamb of God. There was no baby sheep at the Last Supper. He said "This is my body." God's word causes what it says. Therefore the bread and wine became His body and blood and He commanded/empowered His apostles to celebrate this same change of substance when He said "Do this in remembrance of me". Calvary began in the upper room.
AmericanBerean 5 months ago
@birthbysleep To say that the Flesh of Jesus Christ on the Cross profits nothing is pure heresy.
monkigun 1 month ago
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Revelation 17
16. The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
- How would you interpret "they will eat her flesh" ?
- How can we "eat the flesh" of a prostitute that is ruined, naked, and burned with fire?
archpolice 8 months ago
No one literally did eat the arm of Jesus or drink his blood. That is forbiden in the OT law. If you John 6:61. Jesus says literally that the flesh counts for nothing and his words are spirit. No one has literaly eaten Jesus. Jesus words are believed and works are done when a person has eaten Jesus body. A real presence of Jesus is in the spirit. See John 4:24 Real worship of God is done in the Spirit. Jesus words here are not to be taken literally. We eat his body/blood in true spirit
MRGV7373 9 months ago
Jesus said,"Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you have no life within you"."I am the living bread that comes down from heaven whoever eats this bread will live forever and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh"."This is my body.This Is my blood"."Do this in memory of me".:He who eats my body and drink my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day.These are the words of our Lord God Jesus Christ. Proud to be Catholic.
cramirez11 10 months ago 8
That is simply a reminder of what this religion is in the first place. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are ALL SACRIFICE RELIGIONS!!!
Do you know what you pretend to drink blood? Because once upon a time, that's what they ACTUALLY DID, and then along the way they had to tone it down a bit. But such practices still exist. Many/most major Catholic or Protestant clerics are actually Satanists. And they use the EXACT same rituals as in church. Because those rituals are Inherently evil...
planetery 11 months ago
Revelation 3
19. As many as __ I love I rebuke and chasten be zealous therefore and repent.
20. Behold I stand at the door and knock if any man hear my voice and open the door I will come in to him and will sup with him and he with me.
archpolice 11 months ago
Looks at John 6:63. The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. How do you explain this? The cross is real and Jesus did die on the cross. Eating Jesus body and blood are believing in Him as God's Son and trusting in Him as your savior. The Spirit give Life. Look at Mark 7 - what goes in a person body does not make it clean or unclean. So eating Jesus flesh will not make you clean. Belief will make you clean
jeffhvass 11 months ago
it;s amazing how sola scriptura protestants contradict scripture,,,I'm glad I'm Catholic
iamnotarobotadam 11 months ago
@iamnotarobotadam Faith is such a gift. I thank God for it all the time
xxzzxx99 11 months ago
If Christ was speaking literally about the bread being His body which would be given up for us, then why didn't they nail that piece of bread on the cross? Because Christ was speaking figuratively.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 Nah, because the apostles ate it. And the Romans who did the crucifixion would have seen it as bread.
xxzzxx99 11 months ago
OK this is simple... if during communion bread BECOMES Christ's body & wine BECOMES his blood IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IT not stay looking like bread or wine.
Why should Jesus have to continually say 'By the way, I'm speaking metaphorically now OK?' Because he didn't think anyone would have been stupid enough to have taken him literally that's why!
P.S. I love how this clip says there are examples from verses X Y & Z proving this & NOT reading them out! Why am I not surprised?
I've heard it ALL now
sitemountain 1 year ago
@sitemountain For reasons that we dont know, God doesnt reveal himself in an obvious way to prove his existence. If the wine became blood physically, no one could doubt it and Goda existence would be proven. For s1500 years, all christians celebrated the mass and accepted that Christ was truly present in the bread and wine. DO you think they got it wrong?
xxzzxx99 11 months ago
@xxzzxx99 'For reasons that we dont know, God doesnt reveal himself' Speak for yourself! What is the difference between the invisible & the imaginary? Not a lot! You admit you can't know there is a God & yet you claim the LACK of bread becoming flesh & wine becoming blood does NOT indicate God is imaginary! Well if that doesn't what DOES?!
'For s1500 years, all christians celebrated the mass and accepted that Christ was truly present in the bread and wine. DO you think they got it wrong?' YES!
sitemountain 11 months ago
@sitemountain When you say they got it wrong for 1500 years, you imply that the apostles got it wrong, Augustine got it wrong, Tertulian got it wrong, Origen got it wrong, Aquinas, Francis of Asissi, and all the desert fathers got it wrong. Yeah right. They got it wrong, but you and Luther got it right. Do you know who popularised the idea that the bread and wine qre only symbolic? (a heresy, by the way).
xxzzxx99 11 months ago
@xxzzxx99 Who popularised the idea that the bread and wine are symbolic? I have no idea but whoever it was, their taste buds were telling them 'This bread tastes nothing like meat & this blood tastes nothing like blood'. Why am I not surprised?
By the way, you can't frighten an atheist by telling him he is guilty of heresy.
sitemountain 11 months ago
@sitemountain You missed my point about God not revealing himself. If you read teh rest of the sentence, it says IN AN OBVIOUS WAY. What i meant by the that is obvious to everyone, so that no one could doubt his existence. He hasnt revealed himself in this way was my point. If he revealed himself in this way, there would be no Muslims, Jews, Atheists, proptestants etc etc, and everyone would be catholic.
xxzzxx99 11 months ago
@sitemountain My mistake, I thought you were a protestant. I don't debate atheists anymore. if you dont believe in God thats fine, its not my problem.
xxzzxx99 11 months ago
@xxzzxx99 Well all I can say to that is thank God I'm an atheist.
sitemountain 11 months ago
@sitemountain Thank God if you must.
xxzzxx99 11 months ago
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"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God....." Exodus 20.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
I have a problem, i REALLY want to take part in communion or the Eucharist every Sunday or on a daily basis but i can't do it at the catholic church as they have conflicting theologies with God's word + they want me to take classes and get baptized in their church in order for me to participate in the Eucharist and Protestant churches only perform a communion once a month that i don't consider a proper communion, what should i do? Should i look for Orthodox churches?
bigboyburnsy 1 year ago
@bigboyburnsy Join the ctholic church!. What conflicting theologies do you speak of? There are quite a few stories of miracles attributed to catholic Eucharist. I know a guy personally who sufferred suicidal depression for many years, and was completely cured upon recieveing the Eucharist one day. There are many more.
xxzzxx99 11 months ago
@xxzzxx99 I wholeheartedly believe in the Holy Eucharist, that is i believe that it is his flesh and blood. The problem i have is that the Catholic Church is quiet dogmatic. I don't believe in paying indulgences, i don't believe in using rosary beads (repetitious prayer) I don't believe in following the lives of the saints (cont)
bigboyburnsy 11 months ago
@bigboyburnsy Paying indulgences was a mistake resulting from corruption in the church.It's not a doctrine any more. The rosary is a very effective prayer, many miracles, conversions and victories have been attributed to its use. Read a book called 'the secret of the rosary" by Louis de Montford. Its amazing, and you can read it free online. There's no catholic doctrine that says you must pray the rosary or follow the lives of the saints. Pray in whatever way works for you. Meditate on scripture
xxzzxx99 11 months ago
@bigboyburnsy The church has to be dogmatic. Without strict just laws, societies crumble. And without a clear code that outlines the messages of Christ, there are too many conflicting interpretations of sacred scripture that dilute the true message. As catholics, we recognise that we all have different gifts from the Holy Spirit, and some people are more qualified and gifted than others in interpreting scripture (cont)
xxzzxx99 10 months ago
@bigboyburnsy I personally pray the rosary and find it to be a most effective prayer. There are many examples of effective repetitious prayers. . The rosary is not just a bunch of words. When prayed properly, you're supposed to meditate on a particular mystery, (which corresponds to a particular scripture). And as you know meditating on scripture can be a powerful prayer. It can be prayed in such a way as to pray with the heart, the soul and mind. (Love your God with your heart soul and mind)
xxzzxx99 10 months ago
@xxzzxx99 Recently i talked to my cousin about the rosary (he's catholic) he explained to me using scripture how praying the rosary is biblical and taught me how to pray the rosary, i have now been praying the rosary from time to time and i must agree, its very powerful. Though i will say it should not replace praying to God from our hearts but the rosary is a great way to meditate on the Holy mysteries of Christ and Mother Mary full of grace, God bless you!
bigboyburnsy 10 months ago
@bigboyburnsy Glad to hear you're getting into the rosary !! Type in : "The secret of the Rosary" into google, if you have time.The whole book is written up online It an awesome book on the power of praying it.Or type rosary-centre INTO GOOGLE. (Very easy read, the chapters are like one page each, so you can read a quick story and be edified in a couple of minutes. Peace
xxzzxx99 10 months ago
@xxzzxx99 Glad to hear you're getting into the rosary !! Type in : "The secret of the Rosary" into google, if you have time.The whole book is written up online It an awesome book on the power of praying it.Or type rosary-centre (Very easy read, the chapters are like one page each, so you can read a quick story and be edified in a couple of minutes. Peace
xxzzxx99 10 months ago
@xxzzxx99 (Cont) We have had great saints in the past and it is good to look at their examples that they left for us but still at the end of the day they were still imperfect mere mortals, i would much rather follow the perfect immortal example Jesus Christ left for us.
bigboyburnsy 11 months ago
catholics believe that when Jesus said, "it is finished" He meant that His blood sacrifice stopped at that point and now His bread and wine must take over and be offered as an unbloody sacrifice of Jesus for the sins of all. that's why they say that His blood sacrifice is ongoing in an unbloody manner. catholics have such a backward opposite understanding of His words, "it is finished". this is one of the many reasons why i left the catholic church.
bornagainsaint1 1 year ago
@bornagainsaint1 Which church do you belong to now? What other reasons do you have for leaving the catholic church
xxzzxx99 11 months ago
@xxzzxx99. I left the RCC bcuz of: limbo, purgatory, confessing to a priest, sacrifice of the mass, immaculate conception, praying to those who have passed on, works can save us, water baptism washes away sins, the pope is the vicar of Christ, the church is built on Peter. WHERE IS JESUS IN ALL OF THIS!! ALL OF THIS STUFF IS MATERIALISM, DO-DO-DO. HUMANS TRYING TO PURIFY THEMSELVES, BALONGA!!
bornagainsaint1 10 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 Where is Jesus in all of this? Confessing to a priest: Jesus said "for those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven". Jesus gives the apostles the authority to forgive sins on His behalf. The priests carry on that tradition. As for "works can save us", find it in the catechism, or any cannon. Otherewise, its a false representation of the catholic belief. Where is Jesus in the mass? The whole point of the mass is Jesus. Its a celebration of Jesus. He's actually present.
xxzzxx99 10 months ago
Respond to this video... Humans trying to purify ourselves? This is innaccurate. We co operate with grace of Christ. This means we have to try to avoid sin, and with God's help we are successful. Sometimes God purifies us completely of a particular sin in an instant, but most of the time, he purifies us gradually and requires our co operation in his work of redemption in us. We celebrate Jesus every day in the Eucharist. You ask where is Jesus? I say in his house. (tabernacle)
xxzzxx99 10 months ago
Respond to this video... Jesus is also in the hearts of many catholics. Perhaps you haven't met many of these 'christ filled' catholics. But i assure you there are many of them. There are many dead catholics too, and our church is far from perfect. In my country, less than 15% practice the faith. I was once a lapsed catholic also, but God brought me back, filled me with faith and His Holy Spirit
xxzzxx99 10 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 Humans trying to purify ourselves? This is innaccurate. We co operate with grace of Christ. This means we have to try to avoid sin, and with God's help we are successful. Sometimes God purifies us completely of a particular sin in an instant, but most of the time, he purifies us gradually and requires our co operation in his work of redemption in us. We celebrate Jesus every day in the Eucharist. You ask where is Jesus? I say in his house. (tabernacle)
xxzzxx99 10 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 i have never herd the "It is finished" interpreted that way, that the Euchrist now "takes over." Jesus said It is finished meaning the cup of suffering he had to drink was finished. Read Numbers 15 to see how bread and wine were offered along with every animal sacrifice - that's the relation between the cross and the eucharist - the two together make one sacrifice in God's eyes because the priest/victim is the same. See also Leviticus 2 for the true meaning of Memorial.
1962mrpaul 10 months ago
@1962mrpaul. John Martignoni, catholic apologist, has asked this question "since Jesus died 2000 yrs ago and cannot bleed anymore, then what saves us now?" He is referring to the sacrifice of the mass. He believes that this sacrifice completes what Jesus did on the cross - this is wrong. The cross and the sacrifice of the mass are not related. There must be a real death, and Jesus doesnt die at this bloodless sacrifice, there4 transubtantiaton isnt biblical. RC priest cannot stand-in for Jesus.
bornagainsaint1 10 months ago
Well, if you'll go to The Tomb and get me some of His Flesh and some of His blood... oh, wait, HE ISN'T THERE!!!
OneWingedShark 1 year ago
There is a difference between a sacramental real presence and a literal real presence which Jesus can only be present in heaven as the letter of Hebrews says. And also then going to the other extreme and saying Jesus is only present symbolically. Jesus is present in the eucharist in the same way He was present at the last supper when he said, 'This is my body.' 2 minutes? Can't see one can convince anyone of such a complex dogma.
modomnoc1 1 year ago
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ONLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, APOSTOLIC CHURCH PROVIDES ALL SACRAMENTS AND THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE - OF THE LIVING GOD - THE BREAD OF LIFE IN THE EUCHARIST!
WITH 2,000 YEARS OF TRADITION AND SACRIFICES OF CHRISTIANS TODAY WE KNOW WHAT THE BIBLE AND SALVATION THROUGH JESUS CHRIST IS.
MANY PROPHECIES AND VISIONARIES.
THE REAL MIRACLES, EFFECTIVE EXORCISMS, INCCORUPT BODIES OF SAINTS,
YOUTUBE. COM / WATCH? V = S1TCWKCUWWY
JOHN 6: 32-66
God bless
JezusSlave 1 year ago
it's symbolic. everyone knows that.
skippyhippo 1 year ago
@skippyhippo Actually, Catholicism preaches that it is literal. It's called transubstantiation.
The only reason people now "Know" it to be symbolic rather than literal is because our modern sensibilities conflict with that particular aspect of Christian faith.
It is not supposed to be symbolic, doubting that the bread and wine are literally Christs body and blood is to doubt a major tenet of Catholicism.
Which is fine. Just realize that it's not supposed to be symbolic.
TheCycad 1 year ago
Obviously Jesus words, "this is my body" should be taken symbolically because it falls within a long list of symbolic statements Christ said: "I am the bread," (John 6:41), "I am the vine," (John 15:5), "I am the door," (John 10:7,9), "I am the good shepherd,"(John 10:11,12), "You are the world the salt, (Matthew 5:13), "You are the light of the world. (Matthew 5:14)
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Symbolism is certainly part of the meaning - but then we have to ask, "*What* is symbolised ?" Symbols by their nature are *symbolic of* something, to which they point. What is the symbol here, & what does it symbolise ?
5355vbxjbj76rvn 1 year ago
"Literal of Symbolic ?"
Neither - there are other possibilities than those two. "Literal" is a poor choice of words; since the Eucharist is not a text, and therefore has no *literae* (= letters). The Council of Trent says that the Lord is present "truely, really, and substantially" - not "literally". To talk about a "literal" Presence is to talk about the Eucharist imprecisely, when precision is possible & needed.
Why not make series of videos on this topic ?
5355vbxjbj76rvn 1 year ago
Christ would not have compared bread and wine with His eternal word simply in a symbolic sense. Jesus meant what he said, and if He didn't, we wouldn't be able to rely on anything else he said or taught. The Eucharist is also explicitly mentioned elsewhere in the Bible as the substance of bread and wine literally transforming into His body and blood.
Coolz444 1 year ago
It's Symbolic you fucking dumbass. The bible says, (not word for word) eat this BREAD as it is my body, Not Eat my body. Drink of this wine, for it is my blood. Not Drink my Blood. i mean damn i don't believe in "god" and i know this shit
PilotRLasley 1 year ago
It's Symbolic you fucking dumbass. The bible says, (not word for word) eat this BREAD as it is my body, Not Eat my body. Drink of this wine, for it is my blood. Not Drink my Blood. i mean damn i don't believe in "god" and i know this shit
PilotRLasley 1 year ago
It doesn't mean literally neither does it refer to the Eucharist or the Lord's Supper. What Jesus spoke symbolically here is: "COME TO ME, FEED ON ME, LABOR FOR THE FOOD THAT LEADS TO EVERLASTING LIFE, BELIEVE IN ME, HAVE FAITH IN THE SON OF GOD". May Jesus bless you.
loi23916 1 year ago
@loi23916. Point well taken!!! I have often thought how wonderful it would be if I could really eat the bible so that I could reflect on & remember His word all the time. But a phsyical eating of this book wouldnt do me any good. What does help me is when I put my faith and trust in Jesus' blood sacrifice, and then He gives me a deep appreciation of Hiswords and the presence of His Holy Spirit. Then I can reflect on & remember all those promises He made for me and for others who trust Him.
bornagainsaint1 10 months ago
1
Have any of you wonder why the Living God rejected the consumption of meats and the sprinkling of blood in the Old Testament?
Isaiah 1
10. Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11. To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
archpolice 1 year ago
How do we Catholics explain John 6:63, where it says " It is the spirit that gives life while the flesh is of no avail, the words I have spoken are spirit and life." This is the verse that protestants use to refute the real prensence. Especially the part that says " THE WORDS I HAVE SPOKEN ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE. What does Jesus mean by that?
sarahmcc28 1 year ago
@sarahmcc28
It doesn't refute it. It does however act a reminder that *mere* eating as a bodily act is of no importance - a parrot is perfectly capable of eating a consecrated Host, just a man is, but it would be a profanation to feed a parrot on a Host.
John's is a sacramental Gospel - he's very interested in Baptism & the Eucharist. The Eucharist becomes the Eucharist by spoken words, & the Spirit Who gives Life (Gen.1; 2.7; John 20:23) converts bread into the Body, & wine into the Blood
5355vbxjbj76rvn 1 year ago
@sarahmcc28. John 6:63 means that the Holy Spirit gives us the faith to believe in His blood sacrifice which solved the sin problem, bcuz a physical eating wouldnt solve the sin problem. When He said "eat my flesh and drink my blood" He was making a very strong statement saying that we must believe in His blood sacrifice & the Holy Spirit will give us the strength and faith to believe. Those in heaven have life, but those in hell will wish they could die.
bornagainsaint1 10 months ago
Just because is symbolic is ok to eat corpses
Don't you think is s mind disturbing?
Church uses this pagan methodology to sick your mind so you can run to them to find cure
Come on people id not a brain surgery
Church doesn't want you to be mentally stable
What you do when you are sick : you go to the hospital
What happen when you have mental psycological isuues :
You ho to the church
Let's practice Common Sense
independentconceptz 1 year ago
Wow I'm in heaven all my relatives are here well only the good behave ok next step how can I reconize all of them wow
I'm gonnahave to check the records back to Spain all my relatives all thr way back to adan and eve a million of relatves yes amazing
independentconceptz 1 year ago
Brutal cannibAlistic rituals of 3000 years ago still been follow by modern humans amazing
independentconceptz 1 year ago
So Catholics are actually saying they are cannibals, that's interesting.
N00bcrunch3r 1 year ago
Ha, ha, ha.
This is cannibalism !!! Always knew Christians were Pagans.
tatelyle1 1 year ago
Christ is not present in the eucharist. He died once and for all 2000 years ago. Christ said "it is finished." Hebrews....."So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
He actually is in the Eucharist, and Catholics believes that he died once and for all. Try again.
In the Old Testament, the sacrificial lamb was eaten. If not, it was not a valid sacrifice and thus the people did not received the graces of it. So think for a moment. Jesus instituted the Eucharist why? SO WE CAN CONSUME HIM BECAUSE HE IS OUR SACRIFICIAL LAMB!
You fail at the Bible. You fail at theology.
CatholicCross1393 1 year ago 17
@CatholicCross1393 You do realise the Old Testament sacrificial method was made redundant at the death of Jesus. Jesus died ONCE AND FOR ALL for our sins, He made the one true and perfect sacrifice. He doesn't need to be sacrificed again and again and again. YOU fail at the Bible. YOU fail at theology. The Eucharist sacrfices Jesus over and over, which doesn't need to be done. "... everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES in Him shall have eternal life..."
riz278 1 year ago
@riz278 iF YOU DO NOT EAT THE FLEAS OF THE SON OF MAN AND DRIK HIS BLOOD YOU SHALL AVE NO LIFE IN YOU ITS NOT SYMBOLIC.
wjm7259 1 year ago
@wjm7259 Please stop shouting at me, that doesn't glorify God. I do drink the blood of the Son and eat His flesh, but not literally. Communion doesn't save you, just as baptism doesn't. Salvation comes from NOTHING but believing and following the Son of Man. Essentially, this argument is ridiculous. Romans 10:9 says 'If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved'. And I believe the Bible over twisted doctrine.
riz278 1 year ago
@CatholicCross1393 Thank you for your true faith! We need more people like you in this ever growing Protestant world.
ChaseFowler0192 1 year ago
@CatholicCross1393 Have you consider the following?
Ezekiel 2 (New American Standard Bible (©1995))
8. "Now you, son of man, listen to what I am speaking to you; do not be rebellious like that rebellious house. Open your mouth and eat what I am giving you."
9. Then I looked, and behold, a hand was extended to me; and lo, a scroll was in it.
10. When He spread it out before me, it was written on the front and back, and written on it were lamentations, mourning and woe.
archpolice 11 months ago
@CatholicCross1393 Have you consider the following?
Psalms 75 (New American Standard Bible (©1995))
8. For a cup is in the hand of the LORD, and the wine foams; It is well mixed, and He pours out of this; Surely all the wicked of the earth must drain and drink down its dregs.
9. But as for me, I will declare it forever; I will sing praises to the God of Jacob.
10. And all the horns of the wicked He will cut off, But the horns of the righteous will be lifted up.
archpolice 11 months ago
@CatholicCross1393 Have you consider the following?
Isaiah 5 (New American Standard Bible (©1995))
12. Their banquets are accompanied by lyre and harp, by tambourine and flute, and by wine; But they do not pay attention to the deeds of the LORD, Nor do they consider the work of His hands
13. Therefore My people go into exile for their lack of knowledge; And their honorable men are famished, And their multitude is parched with thirst
14. Therefore Sheol has enlarged its throat and opened its ...
archpolice 11 months ago
Matthew 15
16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man
John 4
32 But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of
33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat ...
archpolice 11 months ago
@CatholicCross1393. Jesus' blood sacrifice did away with all the OT sacrifices. There is no need to physically eat any more sacrifices. His supper was instituted to remember His blood sacrifice. There must be a real death and Jesus doesnt die in the sacrifice of the mass therefore transubstantiation is not biblical. You dont have to physically consume Him in order to get Him into your life, the Holy Spirit gives us life in Jesus' name when we believe in His blood sacrifice.
bornagainsaint1 10 months ago
@CatholicCross1393 Whats Jesus Real Name?
Zebestation 4 months ago
the RCC really messed up with its mass.. for how many times do you need to eat and drink jesus to receive salvation?
I too would ask why doesnt the RCC believe that Jesus when he died on the cross truly dealt with all our sins and punishments?
why do catholics believe that they must add to the work of jesus on the cross...
a person who is born again doesnt need the catholic mass.... try and work that out...
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
Sorry, but we don't feel that we should sit on our butts and say, "well, I don't feel like doing things for Jesus. I prayed a prayer and got saved. So I can go on sinning all I want because Jesus lubs me." No, sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
The parable of the talents...learn it.
CatholicCross1393 1 year ago
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high
mykalissik 2 years ago
Hebrews 10:10-14 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
mykalissik 2 years ago
Hebrews 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
mykalissik 2 years ago
Communion is an act of remembrance and Jesus died for our sins once and for all, the perfect sacrifice. There is no putting god back on the cross for our sins. In believing that you are indeed drinking the actual blood poured out for you is putting god back upon that cross and that is unbiblical. He died once and for all the perfect death that covers our sins of yesterday, today and tomorrow. Jesus said do this is REMEMBRANCE of me.
mykalissik 2 years ago
I am not trying to shake anyone's foundation on the matter of the Eucharist but I do have one concern and that is the belief of transubstantiation. There is always this image in the church of jesus still upon the cross, but he is not there anymore. Yes he was put on the cross, but what is even greater is he died and rose again. He died the perfect death he conquered the grave, Jesus is no longer upon that cross. And the thought of Jesus' actual body and actual blood being created in every mass.
mykalissik 2 years ago
@mykalissik. I understand what you are saying. It's even hard for me to watch movies about Jesus, bcuz these actors are saying "I am the life, way, truth and resurrection". Whether someone says this in front of or behind a camera makes it uncomfortable for me to listen to. I was told by a catholic once that I am offended with transubstantiation. This angered me, bcuz that person focuses more on Jesus being in the bread & wine instead of focusing on His blood sacrifice.
bornagainsaint1 10 months ago
Ye do err in thinking one can't use literal and figurative language in the same sentence.
ThatRockWasChrist 2 years ago
Christ said "This is my Body," not as YOU say, this "overshadows" my Body. I would advise you look to what the Church teaches; NOT to what YOU say. Those who deny the Church's teaching and distort Christ's own words act as IDOLATERS of their own opinion!
1 Timothy 3:15 says that the pillar of truth is the Church, not Protestant sects!
patrianews 2 years ago
The Church are those who believe and follow Christ. You need to get out of this religious mindset., and study the pre-nicene fathers.
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
The Bible was written and intended as an allegorical text. It is only in modern times (post-Reformation) that people have mistakenly begun to read the bible in literal interpretation. Good try though. Read more history books :)
candie866 2 years ago
@candie866 I'm confused, so you disagree with the fact that the Eucharist is the true body of Christ? Because we Roman Catholics have been doing this for 2000 years, so we didn't just recently started doing the whole Eucharist thing.
MrFriendlies 1 year ago
Eat My Flesh & Drink My Blood: Literal of Symbolic?
Neither!
Thats what people fail to realize and why you never get anywhere when debating because both interpretations are wrong.
The bread and wine is neither his literal flesh (while accidents still remain) nor is it just mere symbolic.
It is symbolic in part that it is a remeberance of Jesus once for all sacrafice, while the bread and wine nourishes us in spirit with his presence.
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
He took the cup and the bread and said "This is my body and blood".
flameboy1236 2 years ago
Maybe you didnt understant what I wrote?
Jesus said "Iam the light" "Iam the door" does that mean he changes into those things? you have to look past Jesus words and derive the meaning from other sources like the pre-nicene fathers.
Also notice that God would not let us commit idolotary as bein one of the 10 commandments. Do not make a graven image on anything above or earth below and bow or worship it. Man makes the bread.
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." John 6:51
flameboy1236 2 years ago
33For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."
These verse you posted and this sum up what the whole context is saying. How does Jesus flesh give us life? through the cross (him offering his flesh and blood on calvary) or through bread? It's boviously through the cross.
Jesus also said just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert so the son of man must be lifted up. Obviously there is difference between hyperbole, symbolism and literalism
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
He did not say "This is the symbol of my flesh and blood." No, he said "This is my flesh and blood."
flameboy1236 2 years ago
Niether did he say "This is my literal flesh and blood". Just like when Jesus says "Iam the light" or "Im the door" It doesn;t mean that he is literally. When he says those things he doesn;t say "I symbolize a light" or "I symbolize a door" rather he says he is a light and door, but that doesn't mean he is. See what im saying?
If you remember what I said, I believe in the real presence and it's neither literal or symbolic. It would be idolotary for God to manifest into something made by man
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
Remember thats one of the 10 Jewish Commandments in Torah? "Do not make a graven image on anything above or below earth".
However, if we say the presence of Christ overshadows the bread and wine (not that it becomes internally literal flesh) The logic of Jesus words at the last supper coinciding with the Torah makes sense. Christ is still coming inside of you and nourishing your soul but its that the bread is a vessel of his presence. This is mainly what the Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans thk
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
He said "This is"
flameboy1236 2 years ago
It is his ressurected body and blood (since his body is not earthly anymore). His body overshadows the bread and his life giving ressurcted blood is the wine. We don't worship the elements because that would be idolotary. We worship the creator behind it. I would advise you lookin into the prenicene fathers.
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
He said it is the living bread that came down from heaven for whoever eats it, he will raise him up on the last day.
flameboy1236 2 years ago
So eating a piece of bread is what gets you into heaven? or is it placing faith in Jesus and turning from sin ? I wonder why Paul never preached this.
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
If you don't eat the bread and wine, you have no life. Not my words but Jesus words.
flameboy1236 2 years ago
Christ said "This is my Body," not as YOU say, this "overshadows" my Body. I would advise you look to what the Church teaches; NOT to what YOU say. You write as an IDOLATER of your own opinion! 1 Timothy 3:15 says that the pillar of truth is the Church, not YOU!
patrianews 2 years ago
WHen Jesus says Iam the door or Iam the light, does that mean he turns into it literally? Problem with Rome is that they justify there position by taking things literally, the original church (Orthodox, Rome split from them and thus the pope is now excommunictd) does not teach transubstantiation, and neither did the pre-nicene church. I would advise you to actually read what the scriptures say and not what someone else does.
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
If Jesus did not want to be taken literally, he would have said "It's just a metaphor!" Furthermore, when he turns to his apostles, he does not retract his statement. He simply asks them if they want to leave too
If Christ wanted it to be a metaphor wihtout telling anyone, he would have misled his pole. This would make him a liar. If God is truth, Jesus can not be God. Therefore, there are only two options: He's a liar and not God, or he is telling the truth and he is God.
Emilyfromohio 2 years ago
Furthermore, when Christ says he is the door or he is the light, he is CLEARLY speaking symbolically, and no one thinks anymore of this. In ohn 6, we see for the first time that people take it something Christ says, litteraly.
Emilyfromohio 2 years ago
btw I do believe in the real presence (not only that its a memorial of his sacrafice) but this does not mean its transubstantiation cause that would be idolotary and violate Jewish law cause anything that is bowed down to made by human hands.
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
As I said before though, no one walked away taking Jesus being the light, litteraly. They did take John 6 litteraly. Jesus does not seem to be ust talking about spirit though. In John 6 verse 55 "Amen Amen I say to you, my Flesh is true food and my blood is true drink"
Emilyfromohio 2 years ago
But also there is another problem, where does he say his blood is wine? Therefore we cant say its referring to the Lords Supper, and also Jesus body would be ressurected not earthly anymore. But you also didn't see my question, is it eating the Lords Supper that merits eternal life and salvation or is it believing and accepting Jesus sacrafice for our sin? I would think the most logical would say this is referring to his sacrafice for us since there are holes to supper its communion
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
And also like I said, even if he was referring to the eucharist (most likely not) it would not be transubstantiation, likely on the lines of constubstantiation or in some way his presence otherwise it starts getting idolotary according to Torah
I would reccomend studying the pre-nicene church fathers since they didn't believe in transubstation or even a papacy. Godbless.
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
I could use the same argument when Jesus said that he is the light of the world; John 9:5 or a gate etc... he doesnt seem to correct himself there. Your mixing up John 6 with the last supper which is something totally different. In context of chapter 6 Jesus says the words I have spoke they are spirit and life (If literal bread were Jesus body they would only be his spirit) so thus he has to be speakin about his crucifixion. Is it the cross that brings salvation or eating bread?
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago
@ChristianFAQs --really? I thought the orthodox DID believe in the True Prescence of Jesus in the Eucharist.
TheBlackPhantom454 2 years ago
According to the guy in the videos logic, that means Jesus Christ is a literal door...John 10:7 says "I am the door" not this is symbolic of but it says "I am". On his cross it said "it has been done" meaning he gave the ultimate sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins. we don't have to literally eat his flesh and blood. it is symbolic. COMPLETELY DEBUNKING THE GUY INT HIS VID! ^^
maluman385 2 years ago
maluman385 - Jesus is the door.
He is the door to heaven. He is not a symbol of door.
Jesus does not look like the door you have in your house. However, Jesus looks like how he should look like as a door to Heaven.
mysteriumaenigma 2 years ago
He stated his intention not to drink wine again until he came into the glory of his Kingdom. As we have seen, he refused some on one occasion, right before being nailed to the cross (Mark 15:23). Then, at the very end, Jesus was offered "sour wine" (John 19:30; Matt.27:48; Mark 15:36; Luke 23:36). But only John tells us how he responded: "When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, 'It is finished'; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit" (19:30).
mannyfit75 2 years ago
This verse reveals something significant. Jesus had left unfinished the Passover liturgy in the upper room by not drinking the fourth cup.
mannyfit75 2 years ago
Only John noticed that hyssop was used, the branch prescribed in the Passover law for sprinkling the blood of the lamb (Ex.12:22).
mannyfit75 2 years ago
He seems to have been in full possession of himself as he realized that "all was now finished." Whatever it is that "was now finished" seems to be directly connected to his utterance, which he spoke "to fulfill the Scripture." More things fall into place upon reading what followed his expression of thirst: "A bowl of sour wine stood there; so they put a sponge full of the vinegar on hyssop and held it to his mouth" (19:29)
mannyfit75 2 years ago
Jesus was thirsty long before this closing moment of his life. His words, therefore, must reflect more than a desire for a last drink of fluid.
mannyfit75 2 years ago
GRADUALLY these Passover and Kingdom themes from Johns Gospel began to converge in my mind as I reapproached the question of Jesus meaning in saying, "It is finished" (John 19:30). For one thing, I noticed that my King, Priest, and paschal victim, in his "hour of glory" while suffering on the cross, made a profound gesture: "After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), 'I thirst.'"
mannyfit75 2 years ago
Third, the identification of Jesus with the Passover lamb is reinforced by Johns noting Jesus bones remained unbroken, as prescribed by the law for the Passover lamb (Ex. 12:46): "that the Scripture might be fulfilled, 'Not a bone of him shall be broken'" (19:33, 36). This brings to fulfillment the words used in Johns introduction of Jesus at the start of his Gospel: "Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" (1:29).
mannyfit75 2 years ago
Comment removed
mannyfit75 2 years ago
Second, only John mentions that Jesus was stripped of a seamless linen tunic (19:23-24). The same word for "garment" (chiton) is used in the Old Testament for the official tunic worn by the High Priest in sacrifice (Ex. 28:4; Lev.16:4). This is meant to remind faithful readers that Jesus, their glorious King and Passover lamb, is also the High Priest of the New Covenant (19:23-24).
mannyfit75 2 years ago
Pilates cynical response is to dress him in a purple robe with a crown of thorns and to present him to his own unbelieving people: "Now it was the day of preparation of the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, 'Behold your King!' They cried out, 'Away with him, away with him, crucify him!'" (19:14). John realized that the sixth hour was when the priests were prescribed to begin slaughtering lambs for the Passover.
mannyfit75 2 years ago
irst, Jesus claim to kingship in John comes precisely at the moment when he appears weakest and most vulnerable--when he is standing accused before Pilate (18:33-37).
mannyfit75 2 years ago
The Protestants are the only Christian group that denies the Real Presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Eucharist.
They have splittered from the Apostolic Church and lost any Apostolic Authority.
mannyfit75 2 years ago
we prots don't believe it because your taking it out of context.
shanana000 2 years ago
Actually, Protestant take it out of context. Protestants are the only one who deny the literal truth of Eucharist as the Body and Blood of Christ.
The Eastern Orthodox themselves believe they consumed the Body and Blood of Jesus.
mannyfit75 2 years ago
look up the miracle of lanciano......
jesus is the passover lamb which has to be sacrificed/eaten (EX 12 / Jn 6)
cfh99nyc 2 years ago
chf99: Not has to be sacrificed, but had to be sacraficed. Paul said "died once for all". Jesus said, "It is finished". Why isn't anybody answering me? Why do you drink water when Jesus said "you will never thirst"?
AlfredNavarro 2 years ago
read hebrews 6/ 8:3 he's in the heavenly sanctuary offering himself as a priest like melchizedek.
"we have an altar to eat from..." hebrews 13:10
read 1 cor 11:29
cfh99nyc 2 years ago
chf, Heb7:27 says Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day and He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. Heb8:3 it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. Hebrews told Jewish converts to not go back to the old Jewish system. One Jewish sect accused the church saying they dont have an alter like we do. So, we have v13:10, the fellowship of the Christians, where we offer up a sacrifice of praise.(v15)
AlfredNavarro 2 years ago
chf, 1 Cor 11, like other scripture, should be looked at in context, instead of isolating a verse to fit your means. At the communion table, the Corinthians were in the wrong by living like the sacrifice of Christ was nothing. (not recognizing the body of the Lord)
AlfredNavarro 2 years ago
What does Jesus mean when he says "It is finished?"
miotico 2 years ago
His mission for comiing to earth is acomplished in that the price for sin is paid. Thus, man has access to God. If people have a hard time having faith to believe that, they get into idolatry; believing objects in their mass are God. Also, they excercise a system of pennance.
AlfredNavarro 2 years ago
Thanks for your response, but do you know why Jesus skipped the fourth cup of the passover? This fourth cup symbolizes the end of the passover in the Jewish passover, however, by Jesus saying "It is finished", he is refering to the passover. He is the new unblemished lamb that takes away the sins of the world. His mission on Earth wasn't finished yet, or else his return would not be necessary a few days after. His true redemption comes on His final return.
miotico 2 years ago
Good insight, thanks, but how does this apply to the debate on the Catholic communnion?
AlfredNavarro 2 years ago
When Christ says, "It is finished," he is saying that the Passover of the human race has been accomplished, the Law fulfilled, and communion with God restored
mannyfit75 2 years ago
With profound spiritual insight, John links Jesus "hour of glory" with the supreme manifestation of his love upon the cross (John 3:14, 7:37-39, 8:28, 13:31). Following this to the end of the fourth Gospel, I began to notice several places where John deliberately weaves together various strands of Kingdom and Passover imagery in depicting Jesus trial and passion. The result was to draw a little nearer to what Jesus meant when he said, "It is finished" (John 19:30).
mannyfit75 2 years ago
The word of God should take precedence over an event, even a miracle. The bible teaches that not all miracles are of God.
AlfredNavarro 2 years ago
i take it you would have walked away from the table like judas?
cfh99nyc 2 years ago
chf, Judas started to realize there was no money in this endeavor. He wanted an earthly king, who would kick out the Romans. He is like people who hear Christs words and cant get past the flesh. He was unable to truly fellowship with Christ and His disciples. People who cant spiritually see what the Word of God really means end up like Judas. By wanting from my heart to know the Word of God (know Christ) and not defend pre-assumed positions, I sup with Him.
AlfredNavarro 2 years ago
cfh, Thanks for the dialog. I have answered your questions. I am hoping you answer mine. I'm not trying to be a jerk.
Sincerely,
Alfred
AlfredNavarro 2 years ago
Fact1; Jews were spiritually blind. Fact 2; Disciples said "This is a hard teaching" They had little spiritual clarity until Acts 2. So let me ask you, do you dring water? Do you eat food? Perhaps you should not because Jesus said, "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood will never hunger and thirst". Jesus lost most of the crowd that day (narrow road) for people will not transend from the fleshly to the spiritual. Jesus gave his body on the cross. That was enough;1st Peter 3:18
AlfredNavarro 2 years ago
We must transend from the fleshly to the spiritual. Jesus said in those scriptures, "You will never thirst again". Did you quit drinking water?, or did you take THAT PART symbolically?
AlfredNavarro 2 years ago
awesome use of scripture. way to be!
God Bless!
carlasue88 2 years ago
LOL, all the christian comments, blood under the appearance of wine is bullshit. Its wine that they call blood because they think it's somehow going to make a difference
THEPANTSWEREDEAD 2 years ago