Agnosticism and a bit of unintentional brown nosing!

[EarlRegent]

You don't even realize you are generalizing. How dare you assume most agnostics are only agnostics in order to deter bad reactions? I don't care how people react. Atheists can be narrow minded too at times.

[NicholasKreuz]

@EarlRegent I'm sorry, I should have clarified. I was referring to those who state they are Agnostic simply because they aren't hard Atheists.

Agnosticism so far as I understand it, is the position that god is unknowable, and one cannot hope to prove or disprove his existence. If someone is not a Theist, they are Atheist (A-Theism = Without Theism).

If I said "Most Agnostics" I apologize, I try not to make sweeping generalizations... there is a large difference between A lot, many, and "most"

[EarlRegent]

@NicholasKreuz I accept your apology and offer my own for being excessively defensive. I want to ask you a question(if I may). Please do not divert attention away from the simple nature of the query,and try to answer it. Is my cousin Peter a Gnostic-Theist, Agnostic-Theist, Agnostic-Atheist or a Gnostic-Atheist?

[NicholasKreuz]

@EarlRegent Thank you, and I accept your apology too :) I think I probably did a poor job of delivery to begin with.

I'm not entirely sure I understand how your question is simple, as I don't know your cousin Peter... If he claims he knows there is a god, I suppose he is a Gnostic-Theist... if he claims he believes there is a god but that god is unknowable, he is an Agnostic-Theist... if he claims god would theoretically be unknowable, but is not convinced one exists, he is an Agnostic-Atheist

[EarlRegent]

@NicholasKreuz Now that we are mates; let's get to business :). You have no information pertaining to what my cousin Peter believes or doesn't believe. He is not available for processing, or is in status awaiting analysys. Can you, therefore, classify him as an Agnostic-Atheist , since he has not provided you with information that involves a positive believe in a deity? Neither has he dispensed data that he has knowledge of God(s) or knowledge that God(s) do not exist. Agnostic-atheist applies?

[NicholasKreuz]

@EarlRegent The trick is not jumping to assumptions, you cannot assume one does or does not believe without asking them, and it is unreasonable to assume that their answer when you ask is unreliable.

This does not mean however that the person telling you their beliefs completely understands the meaning of the label they are putting on themselves.

There are Atheists out there claiming they are Agnostic simply because they are soft Atheists and don't understand the distinction. that is all.

[EarlRegent]

@NicholasKreuz Where does he currently fit-without ever having spoken to him- on Bionicdance's binary absolute?

[NicholasKreuz]

@EarlRegent first of all, I don't know which binary absolute you're talking about, and secondly, it's up to him to clarify where he stands on the agnostic/gnostic theist/atheist scale, I could say one way or another without speaking to him (assuming I even knew who he was), but I would be unnecessarily presupposing and there would be a 3 out of 4 chance I'd be wrong.

He has a much better chance of giving you an accurate answer ; p

[EarlRegent]

@NicholasKreuz I think you have misunderstood the point of that narrative :)! I know what he is; I wanted to demonstrate to you, that there is indeed a middle ground between theist and agnostic-atheism. We are not agnostic-atheists, like a lot of atheists want us to be. You just confirmed that you can not classify Peter, because you need more info.Now, meeting him is irrelevant- if he is a true agnostic- because he would still not be able to tell you what he believes. We don't know our belief.

[EarlRegent]

Lads! You are being too simple minded here! The problem is that people focus on the word. It might have been originally intended to mean lack of knowledge but in practice we take it to mean we don't know if we believe or not. Why is this so complicated for you guys to grasp?

[luckyguests]

You brought up some great ideas!

"Are there things about the universe which are unknowable?" ~ R. D.

Please keep making videos!