another wise-guy foreigner..."I read the truth about the Vietnam War in a blog written in English it has got to be real". Ask any Vietnamese they will tell you this: it was not the Communists who drove The Republic of South Vietnam into the grave, anti war weed smoking homo condoning hippy potheads did it. And finally to the 700 "veterans" who threw away their medals April 23, 1971: if you wanted to stay home and get a 9-5 job you should have done so. Don't call yourself a soldier it's an insult
@brunoblivious if you are not one of us then bark the other way. Yes I am from a long line of royalty. You on the other hand was probably raised in a cave. If you do not have at least a Master's degree do not use the word "stupidity" with me. No wonder the last Emperor slighted your kind
Uncle Ho was loyal slave of International Communist, he was dumb ass! after Geneva 1954, Ho opened Land Reform killing 750,000 innocent people, be cause they were rich, vast land and big house. During TET 1968 Ho put one million solders to invade South Vietnam, and ordered to kill 5,000 civilians in Hue.
Has this poet ever written or showed concern for the execution of the political prisoners, suspected traitors, and supposed war criminals at La Cabana by Che Guevara? This "poetry" is typical left-wing mentality.
He would be executed anywhere, and it's perfectly legal. Even leaving out the fact that Lem was a criminal who had murdered civilians, he had fought out of uniform, which is a violation of the laws of war. A fighter captured fighting out of uniform is not a lawful prisoner of war and can be shot out of hand if the captors so choose.
funny how we never seem to see any reports on nva vietcong atrocities. as it was the usual practice of those august and upright 'sons of freedom' to kill and horribly the leadership of every hamlet and village they entered
@evangran Was it 7 victims? Or was it 34 victims? Or a 'handful' as also reported? Accounts vary as a simple search excluding Wikipedia will confirm. Lem's alleged crime has grown and grown until it's even become fact in the mind of some viewers (see other comments) that he raped his victims.
he deserved to die - anyone who is sad about his death needs to read up on what that sick bastard was responsible for. how bout personally murdering dozens of children and women for a start. it's a shame he got out with a simple gunshot. i'm sure he raped his victims before he killed them. sick motherfucker.
@PoetryAgainstWar typical insane anti-war activist, i call out a rapist and a murderer caught in the act and you try to spin it and pin blame on me? you're the sick one, you insane fucking nutcase
Charming. It's funny how deploring bloodshed and asking viewers to examine what they really know about this incident results in being called an 'insane fucking nutcase'. What does that make you?
I think you're a victim of your own prejudice. Can you provide a book / magazine / internet source to support your ludicrous view that Nguyen Van Lem raped his alleged victims before killing them?
@itsumonihon My point is that if you examine all the facts from various sources - not just Wikipedia - then Lem's guilt is not certain and there's more going on here than first meets the eye.
@PoetryAgainstWar anyone who murders women and children deserve what's coming to them regardless of where they're from or who they're fighting for, doesn't matter if they're us soldiers or if it's the fucking pope himself. justice is blind. this guy got what he deserved.
@itsumonihon I'll try one last time - the only proof you have that Lem carried out the alleged crime is the word of his executioner. That's your evidence. I'm asking you to check out all the information before you condemn someone. Perhaps Lem didn't do it, that he was a sacrificial warning to other VC and that's why he was dragged before the world's media and executed.
Do you still believe Lem raped his alleged victims? If you were wrong about that, maybe you're wrong about his guilt too . . .
Be careful to believe what you hear or read. Hear both sides, especially if one side has an interest to change history to make the other side look like animals while whitewashing any kind of atrocity committed by their side.
There has not been a single war with war crimes only being committed by one side.
@0x777 says the fucking pile of evidence that proves he was caught moments before he was executed, in the presence of the dead bodies of wives and children of police officers, and the fact that his own wife admitted his involvement? how fucking blind to people want to be? just because people are anti-war doesn't make them right, don't defend a monster, that bullet he got was a lot more fucking merciful than what he did to those women and children, he terrorized them.
@itsumonihon Yes, his wife confirmed he was VC - that's not disputed. But she also said the last time she saw him was just before the Tet Offensive - so how could he have told her his alleged crime?
Lem wasn't caught by the ditch in which the alleged victims were found; the crime was said to have taken place at the Go Vap Armour Base and Lem was found in a pagoda on the other side of Saigon, miles away.
You're the one who's blind. If you're not, check out a blog called Consilient Inductions.
1. You mean Loan's biography . . . obviously. I wouldn't rely solely on the word of the executioner as to why the execution took place. He might be biased . . . check out a blog called Consilient Inductions if you want to know why Loan killed Lem.
2. If you re-read my comment, I didn't deny Lem was VC, I was pointing out that VC also fought in uniform and Loan is quoted as saying he had respect for them.
3. I'm not religious but if I were, I'd say that's not your judgement to make.
Your channel page says you're 57 - that means you'd have been about 14 when you were in the USMC in South Vietnam at the Tet Offensive. Perhaps the draft recruited children in desperation or you're using a second account to reply to your own pathetic comment.
@captjackwhite It's shameful the twisted spin the U.S media put on that war. Those soldiers were spat on when they returned from that hell of a jungle because the drugged out, STD spreading hippies back home bought into the liberal-political propaganda that to this day is still brainwashing fat retarded, hippy liberal bastards... "Change we can believe in" SUCKERS. You bought into it all you naive, gullible saps.......Whew! I feel better.... Anyone but Obama 2012 !!!
Nguyễn Văn Lém had personally supervised the mass murder of about 30 school teachers & children. He was captured at the mass murder pit. General Nguyễn Ngọc Loan had just discovered that Nguyễn Văn Lém supervised the death of both his wife & children, who were found in that pit. Leave it to some really crappy "journalists" to leave that out....
@NickB1967 I'm afraid you've relied on some pretty crappy sources to come up with that rubbish. Loan's wife and children were NOT killed by Lem as any superficial look into the events would show. You'll have him killing cute little puppies next.
Lem was accused of killing the commander of the Go Vap Armour Base along with his family and was found in a pagoda on the other side of Saigon, miles away from the alleged crime. Check out a blog called Consilient Inductions for further info.
@PoetryAgainstWar It's pretty common knowledge this guy supervised the murders of innocent civilians in the opening day of the Tet Offensive, when will you acknowledge basic history facts?
@blair91234 Common knowledge is dangerous as alot of comments demonstrate. Loan's family weren't murdered by Lem and he wasn't caught near the alleged crime. And the number of victims varies.
Before I wrote the poem I researched the incident (Wikipedia et al) and wrote it knowing what Lem was accused of - the poem doesn't take his side but simply explores the fate of a man about to die. It was only when my position received alot of flak that I looked into the circumstances of that day . . .
@blair91234 . . . and found there were questions that needed answering. Vice-President Ky of S.V. said Lem was a high-ranking political observer and N.V. never acknowledged Lem's involvement. Loan said: "He killed many of my men and many of your people."
Lem was supposed to have killed the commander and family of the Go Vap Armour Base after the commander wouldn't show him how to drive tanks - but there were no tanks at that base. Lem wasn't caught near the ditch but miles away . . .
@blair91234 . . . in a pagoda on the other side of Saigon.
The number of victims ranges from 'members of families of S.V. Police Officers' to 7 members of Loan's colleague's family to 34 members of the colleague's family. Which is it? His crime has grown in time until he's even accused of murdering the family's pets. Next he'll have been on the grassy knoll in Dealy Plaza . . .
Maybe Lem was guilty of some atrocity - I don't know - but neither do you. Not for sure. Before I condemn . . .
@blair91234 . . . Nguyen Van Lem, I'd like a little more solid information rather than Wikipedia.
If you're really interested in what went on that day, please look up a blog called Consilient Inductions where the author has made a detailed investigation into the events of that day. It may make you reappraise your view - or it may not. It certainly reinforced my own doubts as to why Lem was executed that day. This isn't 'basic history facts'. There's more going on here.
This is not unique or unusual. Im sure this same thing happend 1000 times in this war. Just unfortunatley for this guy someone happend to have the tape rolling.
@rightfredsdead That's the problem - I've looked it up and can't find it anywhere. Perhaps you're the one being lazy by asserting something you can't actually back up?
I've heard that this man carried papers identifying himself as a military officer and was captured out of uniform. Under the Conventions of Military Conflict, signed in Geneva, this was a legal killing. It pains me to say that. But this was a legal and traditional act. I hate war. I hate that behavior like this makes itself necessary.
@balkum I'm not a lawyer but I've looked at the articles of the Geneva Convention (IV) covering prisoners of war and nowhere can I find it sanctioning summary execution. I believe article 4 defines the classes of enemy combatants, article 5 tells you what to do with them if they don't fit into article 4 - try them before a competent tribunal. Then I guess you can kill them.
Why drag Lem before TV cameras and photographers when he could have been executed in a quiet back alley?
@balkum Thats not the complete account. The insurgents hit the ambassadors residence, killing the family. This creep and others tried to hide in the crowed with no papers. The Police Chief knew full well. No papers means V.C.!
@theprimemeridians All accounts say Lem was carrying papers identifying him as either a Captain or Lieutenant in the VC (accounts differ) with the assumed name of Bay Lop, his wife's maiden name.
What has Lem got to do with an attack on the ambassador's residence? The 'official' version says his unit attacked the Armour Base at Go Vap and demanded the base commander show him how to drive tanks. When Lt Col Tuan refused, Bay Lop killed his family.
@ChrisPenta Maybe the context wasn't know at the time but I think that over 40 years after the event, people are pretty clued-up about Nguyen Van Lem's alleged cime. We've read and watched accounts of the execution but what do we really know about the incident? There are differing accounts, that's why I'm urging viewers to google . . .
consilient inductions nguyen van lem
. . . to read blog posts written by someone who looked into Lem's death. Well worth a visit.
Vietnam was a war of necessary intent but execution of the war was appalling. Communism needed to be stopped because if it was allowed to continue, the Cold War would have turned hot in an instant and the world as we know it now would have been destroyed. So if you ask me if I agree with the war there, I'd say it was worth the price when if the communists weren't shown they cant take any country, there would have been a third world war, so yes. I do agree with the Vietnam War.
@spongebo13 But the communists did take the country. If anything, it showed the US was beatable.
If you were of service age back then, would you have picked up a rifle? Would you have been prepared for your child to come home dead, maimed or psychologically scarred? I couldn't. I agree that some wars have to be fought and respect your views on the domino effect in South East Asia but from the outset, I believe the Vietnam War was unwinnable.
@PoetryAgainstWar The war could have been won, but the americans were far too barbaric and undisciplined to take on the task. Instead of burning down the civilian towns and villages, it should have been about winning the "hearts and minds" of the population -something the US clearly didnt do. If the population were shown there was a way of living that wasn't an oppressive extreme left wing government, as opposed to brute force by the US, it would have stood a far better chance of victory.
General Nguyen Ngoc Loan was a filthy cunt, not a hero of any kind. I'm glad he had a fucked up life and a horrible death. Got exactly what he deserved.
@mkrauh5 You haven't answered the question - you believe Lem killed Loan's family and his close friend? That's what your comment suggests. In which case, you're wrong. If you're going to condemn someone, at least do a little homework and get your facts straight. It amazes me how many people lusting after Lem's blood have such a poor grasp of his alleged crime.
I wonder what punisment you'd mete out to the members of Charlie Company who killed over 350 women and children at My Lai. The same?
@PoetryAgainstWar Not necessarily, if in the heat of battle or if the situation dictates you can execute him... it may have changed since then. A ancient Greek philosopher once said "only the dead have seen the end of war". When I worked in a juvenile lock up the "inmates" had a saying... "believe none what you hear and half what you see".
@lonedove1981 The 'inmates' were right; that's what I'm asking about this photo.
If Lem murdered 34 unarmed civilians, if he was stupid enough to be caught at the scene and was so arrogant that he boasted of his crime to Loan - what good did executing him on camera do? I believe it enraged an already determined enemy, destroyed Loan's life, haunted Eddie Adams with guilt for capturing it and made the US public question their involvement in Vietnam. As did the world.
@captjackwhite I think it is debatable, thanks. I agree Loan was loved and respected by his men; he led from the front and was a patriot. But he was alleged to have been a bit quick-tempered too and even if he never regretted executing Lem, I'm afraid he paid for it. As Eddie Adams later said, Loan killed Lem and Adams killed Loan.
I feel that when Loan summarily executed Lem in front of the media, it was out of revenge, not justice. The former is understandable - but I prefer the latter.
@PoetryAgainstWar im pretty sure hero or not this guy did what he had to. because i am also pretty sure that the guy he shot in the head was a leader of the vietcong.
people have called officer Nguyen.... a murderer, that what he got after this event was viable, that it was in justice. did u know this man died from cancer, after living a life of depression from all the insults he has recieved. this man 'was' a hero.
@Erecson1523 I don't think of Loan as a murderer - more a tragic example of what war does to men's judgement. I also don't consider his act heroic in the true sense. He suffered for executing Lem and I take no pleasure in that. He thought he was doing what was best for his country but I believe he couldn't have been more wrong, in terms of US and world public opinion, whatever Lem's alleged crime.
Eddie Adams said he killed Loan killing Lem. As I've said before, a bad day for all concerned.
@N5LRZ That's not what the US is about. The United States fights to restore peace, not to scare the Op. For.. This is why troops, allied and enemy, are accused of wrongful killing and promptly punished.
This picture does not at all properly depict the events that were going on at the time of the tet offensive. The man who took this photo was a newspaper writer . I read earlyer this year in his memoir after him passing away that he regretted ever taking this picture for the exact same reason stated above. There was absolutly nothing wrong with executing VC in the streets of siagon at this time. Nguyễn Văn Lém was not just accused he was proven of this actions.
@PoetryAgainstWar this felon was the leader of a group of VC assassins who killed the deputy of the chief of police, who is shown executing him for the murders of not only the deputy, but of his children as well. I direct your attention to "Unheralded Victory" by Mark W. Woodruff. As well as his comments via wiki: The general killed the Viet Cong; I killed the general with my camera. ...
@GathKingLeppbertI I know why Lem was executed in the street that day - my concern is that there doesn't seem to be any other independent verification of his guilt apart from that of his executioner. Thanks, I'll check out the book you recommended.
Yes, Eddie Adams 'killed' Loan with this picture. IF Lem was guilty (maybe he was), I still can't sanction his summary execution and considering the effect it had on all concerned, it caused more harm than good for US involvement in that dirty war.
@puffie300 No - she confirmed only that he was VC. She last saw him before the Tet Offensive. Vice-President Ky said he was a high-ranking political official. Post-war Vietnam has never acknowledged his role. All a bit murky to me.
Maybe Lem was guilty - I don't know but I can't take the word of his executioner and wonder what Loan's motives were in dragging Lem before the media. To send a message to the enemy? Maybe, but even if Lem was a mass murderer, killing him on camera was disasterous.
@PoetryAgainstWar In the documentary I saw, it was explained that his wife confirmed he was part of a killing squad. Either way, he did not mean to do it right in front of a camera. The guy just happened to whip out the camera last minute. It happened in seconds.
@puffie300 But I think Loan did mean to execute Lem in front of cameras - remember, there were TV crews there as well as Adams et al. Was it to send a message to other VC? Just think of the effect this would have had on the enemy who saw the execution. I don't think it would frighten them; it would harden them even further.
I believe dragging Lem in front of an audience was the worst thing Loan could have done. I'm sure other VC were executed in quiet back alleys. Why not Lem?
My grandfather(on my dad's side) was a South Vietnamese officer during the Vietnam war. He know this VC guy very much. This VC guy killed a lot of his families as well using suicide bombing tactics to scare the population. He said if he had a chance to meet them, he would have shot him too.
It's the other way around...the Viet Cong Captain Nguyen Van Lem is the Hero, the minute he pulled the trigger... he gave him fame...And to this day in VietNam, his family and relatives, and the Vietnamese people see him as such, he made History, simple, even thro he was apart of a Death Squad,which in it self was sad. VietNam was a 'Dirty War'. I believe he knew he was going to die that day he got caught, I am not sure, but based on what he did, who was going to overlook what he did???
@captjackwhite I said then and there. Vietnam Want to know how you go to Vietnam. I do not want to argue with those who have only one eye and one ear, only to look from one side and hear from one side. I say you understand but
@captjackwhite you debate this issue when you do not know anything about this war, if that is only one-way information from the U.S., People have two ears to hear from both sides, there two eyes to look at from two aspects. You go to Vietnam and you will get answers because a lot of survivors after the war in Vietnam and it is they who have experienced war, they know who the perpetrators in Vietnam . send information to the blind and other aggressive
You know there tongues and invertebrates. if you want to know the crimes of U.S. and ARVN in Vietnam, you try to Vietnam once, you will have the answer. Now many survivors after the war, I was a student in 1992, but using stories of grandparents, parents and elders, I learned about the crimes of America and the sacrifice of large the Communists to defend the country.
@tienluat for the record, i'm an american who always was against the war in vietnam. we had no business being there. but if you think for a second the communist forces were innocent saints protecting the homeland and never commited atrocities, you are really, really gullible. war is hell and it turns everyone involved into monsters.
Shoot that motherfucker hahahaha I saw the video footage, shit reminded me of the menace II society opening scene, chink getting shot in his bitchass head
@spershing you are 100% right I am with you. That bastard VC deserves to die. Did the world know how many innocent people were killed by that VC guy??? General Loan was a hero, at that time,he did his best for the country and for the forces.
Recently I’ve had to ban the same individual three times as he reincarnates in different guises. He believes he’s my moral and intellectual superior - and maybe he is - but I’ve learned that to engage him in debate only leads to taunts and insults.
I realise playing devil’s advocate wins few friends but I think it’s essential our views are challenged. I honestly value all real contributions to this debate, be they for or against.
@barrybocho What makes him a hero? Shooting an unarmed man, wow, that sure is something heroic. How can he live with himself? Did he feel bad for it, every single time he woke up? He fled when the ground became too hot to stand on. What I know of South Vietnam was that it was a dictatorship, and its leaders were marked by frauds. North Vietnam wasn't that good either, but Ho Chi Mihn, he was real, he was a real man of the people, and not one big fraud.
@barrybocho Yes, fuck the VietCong for fighting what they believe in(sarcasm). I don't support the VietCong, but just because we are not like them doesn't mean they are the enemy. In some ways, they are like us. We are only defending our ability to manage our countries and we fight for what we think is what's right. What you think is right is not what others think is right. That doesn't make the other enemy force wrong.
@barrybocho Okay but I'm afraid my definition of a hero doesn't include executing handcuffed and unarmed prisoners in front of TV crews and photographers, whatever they were accused of.
@PoetryAgainstWar You better study the laws of war when you catch an enemy wearing no uniform... anyways the people against war the most are the guys who have to fight them. Don't give me your "PoetryAgainstWar " handle because that's pure BS... I've see enough of you piece of shits in the '60's.
@lonedove1981 Can you cite the relevant article of the Geneva Convention that sanctions summary execution? I can't find it either.
Why is 'PoetryAgainstWar' bullshit? It does what it says on the tin.
If I'm a piece of shit for trying to see both sides of conflict, then so be it. You make a good point that most wars are fought by those who don't want to fight them. I hate war, not soldiers; wars are started by politicians.
@tahooperpsn If by 'his' you mean Police Chief Loan, his family was not murdered by Lem. The prisoner wasn't accused of murdering 36 of Loan's men either; it depends which account you read but his execution was for murdering 34 members of the families of Loan's police colleagues. This has been covered in the preveious seven pages of comments.
If you think he should die for what he did - and you may be right - make sure you know the facts before you pull the trigger.
i don't care what you liberal or conservative drones say, both sides didn't deserve what they got. men were burned to death on the VC and some of the us troops who lived to survive the war died later from pesticides. men who just wanted to serve their country and those who were forced to go, went home after losing their best friends and enduring psychological torture,were spat on and called baby killers. maybe some deserved it but the majority sure as hell didn't
@300daysandnights I'm not a liberal drone nor would I label those who disagree with me as conservative drones: we're human beings debating our differing points of view. I hate war, not the soldier, and deplore the treatment many US troops received on returning home. My other poems explore the plight of 'friend' and 'foe', whatever that means.
@PoetryAgainstWar well i agree war is never the answer. think about how primitive war is. it's always been us throwing shit at each other. it's the same today except we've just gotten better at throwing shit. war is not just a result of religious or racial differences, it is a greed for power. without these differing qualities we would still find something to kill over. unless we evolve from these 'us and them' point of views we are all going to be gone from this earth.
@thedrofpepper12 What punishment would you recommend for the US troops who killed hundreds of unarmed civilians in the My Lai massacre? The same, no doubt.
@PoetryAgainstWar what punishment would you recommend for all of us who could help people in africa where genocide is taking place yet we just run our mouths off while nothing happens. frankly, we're all monsters even if it is in a passive sense. you want to make a change go help people now.
@300daysandnights How about we're all summarily executed on the street for failing to prevent genocide in Africa? We're not monsters; we're complex, creative and sentient beings who are capable of incredibly selfless acts and terrible atocities. The US troops involved in the My Lai massacre were monsters for a day: for 99.9% of their lives they were / are dutiful and loving sons, fathers and brothers. And so was Nguyen Van Lem. That's what conflict does to otherwise rational human beings.
it looks like the guy pulling the trigger might have the real inside story.
4842Chuck 1 day ago
Just stupid
tedg1554 1 day ago
nguyen van lem was an evil, killed 13 members in a family include a little boy 3 months old
1yeuem 1 week ago
weren't the people from nam, the guerrillas, called viet minh not vietcong....
antik64M 1 week ago
another wise-guy foreigner..."I read the truth about the Vietnam War in a blog written in English it has got to be real". Ask any Vietnamese they will tell you this: it was not the Communists who drove The Republic of South Vietnam into the grave, anti war weed smoking homo condoning hippy potheads did it. And finally to the 700 "veterans" who threw away their medals April 23, 1971: if you wanted to stay home and get a 9-5 job you should have done so. Don't call yourself a soldier it's an insult
avgazian 2 weeks ago
@avgazian Your "royal blood"justifies your stupidity.
brunoblivious 1 week ago
@brunoblivious if you are not one of us then bark the other way. Yes I am from a long line of royalty. You on the other hand was probably raised in a cave. If you do not have at least a Master's degree do not use the word "stupidity" with me. No wonder the last Emperor slighted your kind
avgazian 1 week ago
@avgazian "You on the other hand was probably raised in a cave." Dude, you can't even write a proper sentence. Hahahahaha.
brunoblivious 1 week ago
Has the ballz to shoot him in front of the usmc
Zapp469 2 weeks ago
Uncle Ho was loyal slave of International Communist, he was dumb ass! after Geneva 1954, Ho opened Land Reform killing 750,000 innocent people, be cause they were rich, vast land and big house. During TET 1968 Ho put one million solders to invade South Vietnam, and ordered to kill 5,000 civilians in Hue.
thoyedao 3 weeks ago
patriot vs puppet
cubitsuper 3 weeks ago
@cubitsuper true
NewSoviet507 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@cubitsuper nguyen van lem was an evil, killed 13 members in a family include a little boy 3 months old
1yeuem 1 week ago
Nguyễn Văn Lém got what he deserved that fucking commie bastard!!!!!!!!! He died like the little bitch that he really was hahahahaha :-)
garirodriguez63 1 month ago
damn if only you could see that dumb gook die like the rest of his nation
antiiemo 1 month ago
Has this poet ever written or showed concern for the execution of the political prisoners, suspected traitors, and supposed war criminals at La Cabana by Che Guevara? This "poetry" is typical left-wing mentality.
shoogdon 1 month ago
just search for the video on google its there,he dies like a bitch anyways
5150gamer 1 month ago
you all understand, that in the picture the bullet is currently in his head right?
Meeplord99 1 month ago
@Meeplord99 really i though he was about to shut
NewSoviet507 2 weeks ago
@NewSoviet507 No, it's inside his brain.
Meeplord99 2 weeks ago
He would be executed anywhere, and it's perfectly legal. Even leaving out the fact that Lem was a criminal who had murdered civilians, he had fought out of uniform, which is a violation of the laws of war. A fighter captured fighting out of uniform is not a lawful prisoner of war and can be shot out of hand if the captors so choose.
VIETNAMSAIGON75 1 month ago
SHIT SHIT SHIT....WANTED TO WATCH THE SLOPE DIE
zakwilks 2 months ago
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@zakwilks nguyen van lem was an evil, killed 13 members in a family include a little boy 3 months old
1yeuem 1 week ago
He needs to stand that close with a snubnose revolver !
mwillblade 2 months ago
your poetry sucks. you suck.
TheGoliathsound 3 months ago
whats this bullshit? I wanted to see the headshot
sammipooh 3 months ago
Lem is burning in Hell
ScooterpupReljac 3 months ago
funny how we never seem to see any reports on nva vietcong atrocities. as it was the usual practice of those august and upright 'sons of freedom' to kill and horribly the leadership of every hamlet and village they entered
8aleph 3 months ago
Who cares about this fucking zipper head and his wife and kids
MrGarethSmallwood 3 months ago
Nguyễn Văn Lém was said to have been found at a mass grave containing 7 families of South Vietnamese police officers.
evangran 3 months ago
@evangran Was it 7 victims? Or was it 34 victims? Or a 'handful' as also reported? Accounts vary as a simple search excluding Wikipedia will confirm. Lem's alleged crime has grown and grown until it's even become fact in the mind of some viewers (see other comments) that he raped his victims.
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
he deserved to die - anyone who is sad about his death needs to read up on what that sick bastard was responsible for. how bout personally murdering dozens of children and women for a start. it's a shame he got out with a simple gunshot. i'm sure he raped his victims before he killed them. sick motherfucker.
itsumonihon 3 months ago
@itsumonihon You're sure he raped his victims before he killed them? I think you're the sick one.
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar typical insane anti-war activist, i call out a rapist and a murderer caught in the act and you try to spin it and pin blame on me? you're the sick one, you insane fucking nutcase
itsumonihon 3 months ago
@itsumonihon
Charming. It's funny how deploring bloodshed and asking viewers to examine what they really know about this incident results in being called an 'insane fucking nutcase'. What does that make you?
I think you're a victim of your own prejudice. Can you provide a book / magazine / internet source to support your ludicrous view that Nguyen Van Lem raped his alleged victims before killing them?
I bet you can't.
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar so you believe he was justified in murdering the civilian wives and children of police officers. OK then.
itsumonihon 3 months ago
@itsumonihon My point is that if you examine all the facts from various sources - not just Wikipedia - then Lem's guilt is not certain and there's more going on here than first meets the eye.
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
@itsumonihon And what of the US troops that went beserk at My Lai - would you shoot all of them in the head without a trial?
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar anyone who murders women and children deserve what's coming to them regardless of where they're from or who they're fighting for, doesn't matter if they're us soldiers or if it's the fucking pope himself. justice is blind. this guy got what he deserved.
itsumonihon 3 months ago
@itsumonihon I'll try one last time - the only proof you have that Lem carried out the alleged crime is the word of his executioner. That's your evidence. I'm asking you to check out all the information before you condemn someone. Perhaps Lem didn't do it, that he was a sacrificial warning to other VC and that's why he was dragged before the world's media and executed.
Do you still believe Lem raped his alleged victims? If you were wrong about that, maybe you're wrong about his guilt too . . .
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
@itsumonihon
...said who?
Be careful to believe what you hear or read. Hear both sides, especially if one side has an interest to change history to make the other side look like animals while whitewashing any kind of atrocity committed by their side.
There has not been a single war with war crimes only being committed by one side.
0x777 3 months ago
@0x777 says the fucking pile of evidence that proves he was caught moments before he was executed, in the presence of the dead bodies of wives and children of police officers, and the fact that his own wife admitted his involvement? how fucking blind to people want to be? just because people are anti-war doesn't make them right, don't defend a monster, that bullet he got was a lot more fucking merciful than what he did to those women and children, he terrorized them.
itsumonihon 3 months ago
@itsumonihon Yes, his wife confirmed he was VC - that's not disputed. But she also said the last time she saw him was just before the Tet Offensive - so how could he have told her his alleged crime?
Lem wasn't caught by the ditch in which the alleged victims were found; the crime was said to have taken place at the Go Vap Armour Base and Lem was found in a pagoda on the other side of Saigon, miles away.
You're the one who's blind. If you're not, check out a blog called Consilient Inductions.
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
@itsumonihon
You've been there?
0x777 3 months ago
Calling someone a murderer in war is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.
stopthehatechild 3 months ago
@stopthehatechild he was a bad guy murderer doing things for the wrong reasons.......he should burn in hell
myaclick 3 months ago
@stopthehatechild Great quote, great film.
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
1st: He murdered over 35 people.
2nd: He's Viet cong.
3rd: Burn in hell.
pijef 4 months ago
@pijef
1. Did he? Really?
2. So what? Many VC fought in uniform. Even Loan said he looked after injured VC in uniform.
3. War is hell. Everyone burns.
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar
1. Yes, check his biography.
2. Yes, he IS VC. Check his biography..once again.
3. Yes.
pijef 3 months ago
@pijef
1. You mean Loan's biography . . . obviously. I wouldn't rely solely on the word of the executioner as to why the execution took place. He might be biased . . . check out a blog called Consilient Inductions if you want to know why Loan killed Lem.
2. If you re-read my comment, I didn't deny Lem was VC, I was pointing out that VC also fought in uniform and Loan is quoted as saying he had respect for them.
3. I'm not religious but if I were, I'd say that's not your judgement to make.
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
@pijef Thank You....I was there, only 5 ft....
Sgt, T.M. Aguirre (USMC Ret.)
tedaguirre 3 months ago
@tedaguirre Oh dear!
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
@tedaguirre
Your channel page says you're 57 - that means you'd have been about 14 when you were in the USMC in South Vietnam at the Tet Offensive. Perhaps the draft recruited children in desperation or you're using a second account to reply to your own pathetic comment.
Or are you just another fantasist??.
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
@captjackwhite It's shameful the twisted spin the U.S media put on that war. Those soldiers were spat on when they returned from that hell of a jungle because the drugged out, STD spreading hippies back home bought into the liberal-political propaganda that to this day is still brainwashing fat retarded, hippy liberal bastards... "Change we can believe in" SUCKERS. You bought into it all you naive, gullible saps.......Whew! I feel better.... Anyone but Obama 2012 !!!
SeraphimSword 4 months ago
@SeraphimSword I don't suppose you think that they were doing a good thing over there, do you? Fuck Obama, that piece of shit murderer.
yoktor 4 months ago
@yoktor What? I hate Obama you tool. South Vietnam should look like South Korea. Free of dictatorship and oppression.
SeraphimSword 4 months ago
Nguyễn Văn Lém had personally supervised the mass murder of about 30 school teachers & children. He was captured at the mass murder pit. General Nguyễn Ngọc Loan had just discovered that Nguyễn Văn Lém supervised the death of both his wife & children, who were found in that pit. Leave it to some really crappy "journalists" to leave that out....
NickB1967 4 months ago
@NickB1967 I'm afraid you've relied on some pretty crappy sources to come up with that rubbish. Loan's wife and children were NOT killed by Lem as any superficial look into the events would show. You'll have him killing cute little puppies next.
Lem was accused of killing the commander of the Go Vap Armour Base along with his family and was found in a pagoda on the other side of Saigon, miles away from the alleged crime. Check out a blog called Consilient Inductions for further info.
PoetryAgainstWar 4 months ago 10
@PoetryAgainstWar It's pretty common knowledge this guy supervised the murders of innocent civilians in the opening day of the Tet Offensive, when will you acknowledge basic history facts?
blair91234 4 months ago
@blair91234 Common knowledge is dangerous as alot of comments demonstrate. Loan's family weren't murdered by Lem and he wasn't caught near the alleged crime. And the number of victims varies.
Before I wrote the poem I researched the incident (Wikipedia et al) and wrote it knowing what Lem was accused of - the poem doesn't take his side but simply explores the fate of a man about to die. It was only when my position received alot of flak that I looked into the circumstances of that day . . .
PoetryAgainstWar 4 months ago
@blair91234 . . . and found there were questions that needed answering. Vice-President Ky of S.V. said Lem was a high-ranking political observer and N.V. never acknowledged Lem's involvement. Loan said: "He killed many of my men and many of your people."
Lem was supposed to have killed the commander and family of the Go Vap Armour Base after the commander wouldn't show him how to drive tanks - but there were no tanks at that base. Lem wasn't caught near the ditch but miles away . . .
PoetryAgainstWar 4 months ago
@blair91234 . . . in a pagoda on the other side of Saigon.
The number of victims ranges from 'members of families of S.V. Police Officers' to 7 members of Loan's colleague's family to 34 members of the colleague's family. Which is it? His crime has grown in time until he's even accused of murdering the family's pets. Next he'll have been on the grassy knoll in Dealy Plaza . . .
Maybe Lem was guilty of some atrocity - I don't know - but neither do you. Not for sure. Before I condemn . . .
PoetryAgainstWar 4 months ago
@blair91234 . . . Nguyen Van Lem, I'd like a little more solid information rather than Wikipedia.
If you're really interested in what went on that day, please look up a blog called Consilient Inductions where the author has made a detailed investigation into the events of that day. It may make you reappraise your view - or it may not. It certainly reinforced my own doubts as to why Lem was executed that day. This isn't 'basic history facts'. There's more going on here.
Thanks for commenting.
PoetryAgainstWar 4 months ago 4
@PoetryAgainstWar another fiction story.
925jdb 3 months ago
@925jdb Then what's the truth?
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@PoetryAgainstWar nguyen van lem was an evil, killed 13 members in a family include a little boy 3 months old
1yeuem 1 week ago
@PoetryAgainstWar so cuz u read it on the net some years later its true..? lol u blog/wiki/ i got this on the net!
thc024 3 months ago
@thc024 Did you read the blog Consilient Inductions before you commented?
PoetryAgainstWar 3 months ago
Fuck the general who did this,Viet Cong were hero.
gegendiewand 4 months ago
General Nguyễn Ngọc Loan , the Guy holding the gun ran a pizza restaurant in Prince William County, Virginia after the war, until he died.
NickEspo1000 4 months ago
This is not unique or unusual. Im sure this same thing happend 1000 times in this war. Just unfortunatley for this guy someone happend to have the tape rolling.
capufool 4 months ago
why is the shooters arm extended in the famous photo but not in the video, anyone else notice this?
BlueToad2222 4 months ago
The bullet is still in his head........
TPBXDRicky420 4 months ago
I've found a blog in which the author has made a detailed investigation into the events that surround the execution of Nguyen Van Lem.
If you're really interested in finding out more about what went on that day then Google:
consilient inductions nguyen van lem
There's quite a few posts on this incident and they raise some interesting questions. For those who bother, I'd be interested in what you think . . .
PoetryAgainstWar 5 months ago
@rightfredsdead That's the problem - I've looked it up and can't find it anywhere. Perhaps you're the one being lazy by asserting something you can't actually back up?
PoetryAgainstWar 5 months ago
@rightfredsdead Can you give me a bona fide source for asserting Lem killed the housekeepers and family pets?
PoetryAgainstWar 5 months ago
I've heard that this man carried papers identifying himself as a military officer and was captured out of uniform. Under the Conventions of Military Conflict, signed in Geneva, this was a legal killing. It pains me to say that. But this was a legal and traditional act. I hate war. I hate that behavior like this makes itself necessary.
balkum 5 months ago
@balkum I'm not a lawyer but I've looked at the articles of the Geneva Convention (IV) covering prisoners of war and nowhere can I find it sanctioning summary execution. I believe article 4 defines the classes of enemy combatants, article 5 tells you what to do with them if they don't fit into article 4 - try them before a competent tribunal. Then I guess you can kill them.
Why drag Lem before TV cameras and photographers when he could have been executed in a quiet back alley?
PoetryAgainstWar 5 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar
I was pretty far gone when I wrote that.
balkum 5 months ago
@balkum Thats not the complete account. The insurgents hit the ambassadors residence, killing the family. This creep and others tried to hide in the crowed with no papers. The Police Chief knew full well. No papers means V.C.!
theprimemeridians 5 months ago
@theprimemeridians All accounts say Lem was carrying papers identifying him as either a Captain or Lieutenant in the VC (accounts differ) with the assumed name of Bay Lop, his wife's maiden name.
What has Lem got to do with an attack on the ambassador's residence? The 'official' version says his unit attacked the Armour Base at Go Vap and demanded the base commander show him how to drive tanks. When Lt Col Tuan refused, Bay Lop killed his family.
But then again, there are other versions . . .
PoetryAgainstWar 5 months ago
I've found a blog in which the author has made a detailed investigation into the events that surround the execution of Nguyen Van Lem.
If you're really interested in finding out more about what went on that day then Google:
consilient inductions nguyen van lem
There's quite a few posts on this incident and they raise some interesting questions. For those who bother, I'd be interested in what you think . . .
PoetryAgainstWar 5 months ago
That VC was the commander of a death squad. Nobody hears the full story, his thugs had just ravaged through local policemen and their families.
ChrisPenta 5 months ago
@ChrisPenta Maybe the context wasn't know at the time but I think that over 40 years after the event, people are pretty clued-up about Nguyen Van Lem's alleged cime. We've read and watched accounts of the execution but what do we really know about the incident? There are differing accounts, that's why I'm urging viewers to google . . .
consilient inductions nguyen van lem
. . . to read blog posts written by someone who looked into Lem's death. Well worth a visit.
PoetryAgainstWar 5 months ago
Vietnam was a war of necessary intent but execution of the war was appalling. Communism needed to be stopped because if it was allowed to continue, the Cold War would have turned hot in an instant and the world as we know it now would have been destroyed. So if you ask me if I agree with the war there, I'd say it was worth the price when if the communists weren't shown they cant take any country, there would have been a third world war, so yes. I do agree with the Vietnam War.
spongebo13 5 months ago
@spongebo13 But the communists did take the country. If anything, it showed the US was beatable.
If you were of service age back then, would you have picked up a rifle? Would you have been prepared for your child to come home dead, maimed or psychologically scarred? I couldn't. I agree that some wars have to be fought and respect your views on the domino effect in South East Asia but from the outset, I believe the Vietnam War was unwinnable.
PoetryAgainstWar 5 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar The war could have been won, but the americans were far too barbaric and undisciplined to take on the task. Instead of burning down the civilian towns and villages, it should have been about winning the "hearts and minds" of the population -something the US clearly didnt do. If the population were shown there was a way of living that wasn't an oppressive extreme left wing government, as opposed to brute force by the US, it would have stood a far better chance of victory.
spongebo13 5 months ago
General Nguyen Ngoc Loan was a filthy cunt, not a hero of any kind. I'm glad he had a fucked up life and a horrible death. Got exactly what he deserved.
scanthat 6 months ago
@scanthat I can't agree with Loan's actions but that's harsh.
PoetryAgainstWar 6 months ago
@scanthat That VietCong scumbag got what he deserved commie!
smooth1nz 6 months ago
@scanthat ok man if somebody killed all of your family and your officer and close friend you wouldnt want to kill them?
mkrauh5 6 months ago
@mkrauh5 Sorry, are you saying Lem killed Loan's family?
PoetryAgainstWar 6 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar he was vietcong he deserved to die
mkrauh5 6 months ago
@mkrauh5 You haven't answered the question - you believe Lem killed Loan's family and his close friend? That's what your comment suggests. In which case, you're wrong. If you're going to condemn someone, at least do a little homework and get your facts straight. It amazes me how many people lusting after Lem's blood have such a poor grasp of his alleged crime.
I wonder what punisment you'd mete out to the members of Charlie Company who killed over 350 women and children at My Lai. The same?
PoetryAgainstWar 6 months ago
Perfectly legal... The VC has no uniform on and he's shooting at your friends and/or allies. That's a spy in my book.
lonedove1981 6 months ago
@lonedove1981 Surely you've got to hold a tribunal to establish his identity and crime before you kill him?
PoetryAgainstWar 6 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar Not necessarily, if in the heat of battle or if the situation dictates you can execute him... it may have changed since then. A ancient Greek philosopher once said "only the dead have seen the end of war". When I worked in a juvenile lock up the "inmates" had a saying... "believe none what you hear and half what you see".
lonedove1981 6 months ago
@lonedove1981 The 'inmates' were right; that's what I'm asking about this photo.
If Lem murdered 34 unarmed civilians, if he was stupid enough to be caught at the scene and was so arrogant that he boasted of his crime to Loan - what good did executing him on camera do? I believe it enraged an already determined enemy, destroyed Loan's life, haunted Eddie Adams with guilt for capturing it and made the US public question their involvement in Vietnam. As did the world.
What if he were tried?
PoetryAgainstWar 6 months ago
@captjackwhite Thank you . Well said.
wabisabi997 7 months ago
@captjackwhite I think it is debatable, thanks. I agree Loan was loved and respected by his men; he led from the front and was a patriot. But he was alleged to have been a bit quick-tempered too and even if he never regretted executing Lem, I'm afraid he paid for it. As Eddie Adams later said, Loan killed Lem and Adams killed Loan.
I feel that when Loan summarily executed Lem in front of the media, it was out of revenge, not justice. The former is understandable - but I prefer the latter.
PoetryAgainstWar 7 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar im pretty sure hero or not this guy did what he had to. because i am also pretty sure that the guy he shot in the head was a leader of the vietcong.
people have called officer Nguyen.... a murderer, that what he got after this event was viable, that it was in justice. did u know this man died from cancer, after living a life of depression from all the insults he has recieved. this man 'was' a hero.
Erecson1523 6 months ago
@Erecson1523 I don't think of Loan as a murderer - more a tragic example of what war does to men's judgement. I also don't consider his act heroic in the true sense. He suffered for executing Lem and I take no pleasure in that. He thought he was doing what was best for his country but I believe he couldn't have been more wrong, in terms of US and world public opinion, whatever Lem's alleged crime.
Eddie Adams said he killed Loan killing Lem. As I've said before, a bad day for all concerned.
PoetryAgainstWar 6 months ago
it was usa that invaded vietnam bloody shit bags
TheBobsfish 7 months ago
@TheBobsfish Being invited does not = Invading
brendan129 7 months ago
mierrrrrrda
ellloron1234 7 months ago
Ugly
commie
terrorist!!!
DitMeManhDungTriet 7 months ago
The purpose of war, any war, is to murder the enemy in cold blood and as many as is possible.
N5LRZ 7 months ago
@N5LRZ That's not what the US is about. The United States fights to restore peace, not to scare the Op. For.. This is why troops, allied and enemy, are accused of wrongful killing and promptly punished.
Hikarilover123 7 months ago
hero of war ? of killing ? hahah.............. killing is not something to be proud of .... be there and you'll see
1942STALKER 7 months ago
that's what you do with rabid dogs, you put them down.
BillKiernan 7 months ago
This picture does not at all properly depict the events that were going on at the time of the tet offensive. The man who took this photo was a newspaper writer . I read earlyer this year in his memoir after him passing away that he regretted ever taking this picture for the exact same reason stated above. There was absolutly nothing wrong with executing VC in the streets of siagon at this time. Nguyễn Văn Lém was not just accused he was proven of this actions.
tm71000 8 months ago
@tm71000 Sorry but you say his actions were proven - how? Where?
PoetryAgainstWar 7 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar Multiple witnesses.
brendan129 7 months ago
@brendan129 Can you direct me to any of their statements - other than General Loan's?
PoetryAgainstWar 7 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar this felon was the leader of a group of VC assassins who killed the deputy of the chief of police, who is shown executing him for the murders of not only the deputy, but of his children as well. I direct your attention to "Unheralded Victory" by Mark W. Woodruff. As well as his comments via wiki: The general killed the Viet Cong; I killed the general with my camera. ...
GathKingLeppbertI 7 months ago
@GathKingLeppbertI I know why Lem was executed in the street that day - my concern is that there doesn't seem to be any other independent verification of his guilt apart from that of his executioner. Thanks, I'll check out the book you recommended.
Yes, Eddie Adams 'killed' Loan with this picture. IF Lem was guilty (maybe he was), I still can't sanction his summary execution and considering the effect it had on all concerned, it caused more harm than good for US involvement in that dirty war.
PoetryAgainstWar 7 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar The VC wife actually confirmed his guilt.
puffie300 7 months ago
@puffie300 No - she confirmed only that he was VC. She last saw him before the Tet Offensive. Vice-President Ky said he was a high-ranking political official. Post-war Vietnam has never acknowledged his role. All a bit murky to me.
Maybe Lem was guilty - I don't know but I can't take the word of his executioner and wonder what Loan's motives were in dragging Lem before the media. To send a message to the enemy? Maybe, but even if Lem was a mass murderer, killing him on camera was disasterous.
PoetryAgainstWar 7 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar In the documentary I saw, it was explained that his wife confirmed he was part of a killing squad. Either way, he did not mean to do it right in front of a camera. The guy just happened to whip out the camera last minute. It happened in seconds.
puffie300 7 months ago
@puffie300 But I think Loan did mean to execute Lem in front of cameras - remember, there were TV crews there as well as Adams et al. Was it to send a message to other VC? Just think of the effect this would have had on the enemy who saw the execution. I don't think it would frighten them; it would harden them even further.
I believe dragging Lem in front of an audience was the worst thing Loan could have done. I'm sure other VC were executed in quiet back alleys. Why not Lem?
PoetryAgainstWar 7 months ago
My grandfather(on my dad's side) was a South Vietnamese officer during the Vietnam war. He know this VC guy very much. This VC guy killed a lot of his families as well using suicide bombing tactics to scare the population. He said if he had a chance to meet them, he would have shot him too.
Hperman09 8 months ago
It's the other way around...the Viet Cong Captain Nguyen Van Lem is the Hero, the minute he pulled the trigger... he gave him fame...And to this day in VietNam, his family and relatives, and the Vietnamese people see him as such, he made History, simple, even thro he was apart of a Death Squad,which in it self was sad. VietNam was a 'Dirty War'. I believe he knew he was going to die that day he got caught, I am not sure, but based on what he did, who was going to overlook what he did???
specops24th 8 months ago
@captjackwhite I said then and there. Vietnam Want to know how you go to Vietnam. I do not want to argue with those who have only one eye and one ear, only to look from one side and hear from one side. I say you understand but
tienluat 8 months ago
@captjackwhite you debate this issue when you do not know anything about this war, if that is only one-way information from the U.S., People have two ears to hear from both sides, there two eyes to look at from two aspects. You go to Vietnam and you will get answers because a lot of survivors after the war in Vietnam and it is they who have experienced war, they know who the perpetrators in Vietnam . send information to the blind and other aggressive
tienluat 8 months ago
You know there tongues and invertebrates. if you want to know the crimes of U.S. and ARVN in Vietnam, you try to Vietnam once, you will have the answer. Now many survivors after the war, I was a student in 1992, but using stories of grandparents, parents and elders, I learned about the crimes of America and the sacrifice of large the Communists to defend the country.
tienluat 8 months ago
@tienluat for the record, i'm an american who always was against the war in vietnam. we had no business being there. but if you think for a second the communist forces were innocent saints protecting the homeland and never commited atrocities, you are really, really gullible. war is hell and it turns everyone involved into monsters.
BillKiernan 7 months ago
Comment removed
Edreckmann 8 months ago
This swallows.
breezeman199 8 months ago
Shoot that motherfucker hahahaha I saw the video footage, shit reminded me of the menace II society opening scene, chink getting shot in his bitchass head
Gocavs1990 8 months ago
Wish I shot the VC myself, fucking terrorist.
saigonpunkid 9 months ago
Comment removed
spershing 9 months ago
@spershing you are 100% right I am with you. That bastard VC deserves to die. Did the world know how many innocent people were killed by that VC guy??? General Loan was a hero, at that time,he did his best for the country and for the forces.
namviet44 9 months ago
I didn’t start this channel to block viewers.
Recently I’ve had to ban the same individual three times as he reincarnates in different guises. He believes he’s my moral and intellectual superior - and maybe he is - but I’ve learned that to engage him in debate only leads to taunts and insults.
I realise playing devil’s advocate wins few friends but I think it’s essential our views are challenged. I honestly value all real contributions to this debate, be they for or against.
PoetryAgainstWar
PoetryAgainstWar 9 months ago 2
This general who did this is a hero. fuck the viet cong
barrybocho 9 months ago 42
@barrybocho LOL so is must be has more than a billion "hero" at that time :P
np96vh 8 months ago
@barrybocho What makes him a hero? Shooting an unarmed man, wow, that sure is something heroic. How can he live with himself? Did he feel bad for it, every single time he woke up? He fled when the ground became too hot to stand on. What I know of South Vietnam was that it was a dictatorship, and its leaders were marked by frauds. North Vietnam wasn't that good either, but Ho Chi Mihn, he was real, he was a real man of the people, and not one big fraud.
DanAndHoe 7 months ago
@barrybocho Yes, fuck the VietCong for fighting what they believe in(sarcasm). I don't support the VietCong, but just because we are not like them doesn't mean they are the enemy. In some ways, they are like us. We are only defending our ability to manage our countries and we fight for what we think is what's right. What you think is right is not what others think is right. That doesn't make the other enemy force wrong.
Hikarilover123 7 months ago
@barrybocho Okay but I'm afraid my definition of a hero doesn't include executing handcuffed and unarmed prisoners in front of TV crews and photographers, whatever they were accused of.
PoetryAgainstWar 7 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar You better study the laws of war when you catch an enemy wearing no uniform... anyways the people against war the most are the guys who have to fight them. Don't give me your "PoetryAgainstWar " handle because that's pure BS... I've see enough of you piece of shits in the '60's.
lonedove1981 6 months ago
@lonedove1981 Can you cite the relevant article of the Geneva Convention that sanctions summary execution? I can't find it either.
Why is 'PoetryAgainstWar' bullshit? It does what it says on the tin.
If I'm a piece of shit for trying to see both sides of conflict, then so be it. You make a good point that most wars are fought by those who don't want to fight them. I hate war, not soldiers; wars are started by politicians.
PoetryAgainstWar 6 months ago
@barrybocho You said what many people wanted to say. Thank you.
wabisabi997 7 months ago
P.S. The "poem" really is a piece of self-indulgent shit masquerading as profundity.
TheeOriginalDecider 9 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar wrote, "Legendary! Thunderous! Blocked!"
That's THREE times that you've dodged two simple questions:
1. Do you believe "TRUE FACTS" do not exist merely because of lack of a trial?
2. Do you believe "TRUE FACTS" are established merely because one or more persons, after a trial, settle upon a set of "TRUE FACTS?"
Why not answer these simple questions?
Are you going to go for dodge number FOUR.
Bye!
TheeOriginalDecider 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I think this is a very powerful poem indeed and fits the photograph perfectly. Well done.
Crawfordtherockband 10 months ago
I think this is a very powerful poem indeed and fits the photograph perfectly. Well done.
Crawfordtherockband 10 months ago
@Crawfordtherockband Thank you so much - that means alot.
PoetryAgainstWar 10 months ago
WHAT DID HE DO?
hartley108 10 months ago
@hartley108 Allegedly part of a Viet-Cong deathsquad that killed 34 civilians, his widow confirmed he was part of the Viet cong.
DarkApostleMatt 9 months ago
You realise the man that was executed was a monstrous man who had murdered his family and up to 36 of his officers.
That bastard deserved to die.
tahooperpsn 10 months ago
@tahooperpsn Please get your facts right, then kill him.
PoetryAgainstWar 10 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar I am correct.
tahooperpsn 10 months ago
@tahooperpsn If by 'his' you mean Police Chief Loan, his family was not murdered by Lem. The prisoner wasn't accused of murdering 36 of Loan's men either; it depends which account you read but his execution was for murdering 34 members of the families of Loan's police colleagues. This has been covered in the preveious seven pages of comments.
If you think he should die for what he did - and you may be right - make sure you know the facts before you pull the trigger.
PoetryAgainstWar 10 months ago
Tất cả con cháu thằng Loan đáng phải bị giết hết đi.
50poiuyt 10 months ago
i don't care what you liberal or conservative drones say, both sides didn't deserve what they got. men were burned to death on the VC and some of the us troops who lived to survive the war died later from pesticides. men who just wanted to serve their country and those who were forced to go, went home after losing their best friends and enduring psychological torture,were spat on and called baby killers. maybe some deserved it but the majority sure as hell didn't
300daysandnights 10 months ago
@300daysandnights I'm not a liberal drone nor would I label those who disagree with me as conservative drones: we're human beings debating our differing points of view. I hate war, not the soldier, and deplore the treatment many US troops received on returning home. My other poems explore the plight of 'friend' and 'foe', whatever that means.
PoetryAgainstWar 10 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar well i agree war is never the answer. think about how primitive war is. it's always been us throwing shit at each other. it's the same today except we've just gotten better at throwing shit. war is not just a result of religious or racial differences, it is a greed for power. without these differing qualities we would still find something to kill over. unless we evolve from these 'us and them' point of views we are all going to be gone from this earth.
300daysandnights 10 months ago
@300daysandnights I can't agree more. Thanks for your comments.
PoetryAgainstWar 10 months ago
The shooter and the suspect had same last names. They were cousins. The story is...
Shooter: "Today you die cousin"
Suspect: "For what reasons "
Shooter: "Because you're one ugly motherfucker"
Suspect: "But you're ugly too"
Shooter: "Unfortunately for you, I'm the ugly motherfucker with the gun"
Suspect: " I'll see you in hell ugly motherfucker"
(Then suspect taunts shooter & photographer with an ugly face before accepting his fate)
Moral of my story is ugly people rarely experience pleasure
gkraz 10 months ago
Whatever.
USGolfChamp 10 months ago
The North Vietnamese guy being executed killed 4-5 South Vietnamese policemen before this execution, so he deserved it.
thedrofpepper12 11 months ago
@thedrofpepper12 What punishment would you recommend for the US troops who killed hundreds of unarmed civilians in the My Lai massacre? The same, no doubt.
PoetryAgainstWar 10 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar what punishment would you recommend for all of us who could help people in africa where genocide is taking place yet we just run our mouths off while nothing happens. frankly, we're all monsters even if it is in a passive sense. you want to make a change go help people now.
300daysandnights 10 months ago
@300daysandnights How about we're all summarily executed on the street for failing to prevent genocide in Africa? We're not monsters; we're complex, creative and sentient beings who are capable of incredibly selfless acts and terrible atocities. The US troops involved in the My Lai massacre were monsters for a day: for 99.9% of their lives they were / are dutiful and loving sons, fathers and brothers. And so was Nguyen Van Lem. That's what conflict does to otherwise rational human beings.
PoetryAgainstWar 10 months ago
@PoetryAgainstWar i say so and im american
MacIrish63 10 months ago
@MacIrish63 What does being American have to do with it?
PoetryAgainstWar 10 months ago