Tony Abbott admits Howard Govt has cut funding to hospitals

[haylele]

What a load of shit Abbott - you ask the states back then you lying arsehole

[LaReinaDelBarrio]

Tony Abbott is a liar and a fan of Westboro Baptist Church. He is glad that the floods killed people in Queensland. He laughed about it, from what I have been told. He needs to be removed like Mubarek of Egypt. Before he attacks homosexuals again.

[wonder9ify]

Whooptie-dooooo, an interview with the most deranged leftie unethical toerag abortion bucket escapee Mike Carlton. Who gives a fuck what Abbott says here as Carlton has no credibility. His behaviour on and off air say it all - remember when he made on air comments about Wran in the 80s & then had to leave the country to hide out in the UK 'all of a sudden' ? He's a cat, he's gutless & stupid, so I can see why lefties identify with him.

[zzsharka]

@wonder9ify foward estimate adjustment lol the interviewer is a prick but sometimes it takes a prick to get the answers out of a slippery snake.

[mowaycanyufindausern]

Liar!Liar! Budgie smugglers on fire!

[mcdazz]

You're still saying it was all some part of a conspiracy.

Here's the facts:

1. Keating acted on a 1991/1992 report National Health report.

2. Keating included funding in the 93/94 budget.

3. So what incompetent mates was he trying to cover up for? The Greiner/Fahey Liberal Government?

[mcdazz]

Vote buying? The programme was recommended back in 1991/1992 and funded in the 1993/1994 budget.

Nick Greiner - a Liberal had been the Premier up until 1992 when John Fahey -another Liberal - took over as Premier after Greiner resigned.

You can claim it was a Labor conspiracy all you want - but your argument is wrong.

[AussiePolitics]

yes it was the carrot labor was using with voters during two of the toughest recessions it had fought.

secondly waiting lists were no-where near as bad until the labor government took over in nsw - look at the bunch of incompetent fools. even rusted on labor voters acknowledge they're a bunch of idiots. dental health care was the responsibility of the state government and its amazing how with a 6 billion budget they still needed federal money.

[mcdazz]

Waiting lists were bad - why do you think Keating implemented the CDHP in the first place - because of Dental waiting lists.

And who was in Government at the time when Keating announced it in the 93/94 Budget?

The NSW State Liberals.

If you are referring to incompentents, then you must also be referring to them.

[jamo5468]

Mike Carlton,what a wanker.His career highlight was an announcer on MixFM in the 90s.He couldn't even win the rating then.He bags everybody else in the media.His head is so far up the Labour parties arse it will never be removed.

[OmegaRage]

At least he'll go on with someone who has an opposing viewpoint. Unlike some.

[Franko123Mohawk]

Mike is brilliant! Always good to hear someone put that catholic fundamentalist in his place

[sgtkicker111]

SPENDING on e-health crashed during 2006-07 with $41.5 million allocated to national projects left unspent from a budgeted $79 million.tony abbott is a scruge when it comes to health.

[AussiePolitics]

that is a lie. federal funding on health was at 5.2 billion dollars between 95-96 (just before howard took over) and between 06-07 the last years of the howard government it has more than doubled to 10.7 billion.

the reason the states like to lie was because they had fucked up public health so badly the howard government was having to pay for more and more of it

[mcdazz]

@AussiePolitics - I guess you don't want to let the truth get in the way of a good troll.

Even One Nation said that Howard and Costello cut Health funding.

"At the 1996 Premiers' Conference, he (Howard) forced the states to take a $1.5 billion overall funding cut which cut an estimated half a billion dollars in state health care funding."

Howard and Costello also scrapped the $100

million Commonwealth dental health program - are you going to deny that as well?

[AussiePolitics]

the howard government itself started funding health MORE than any other federal government in the past. as i showed you, during howards time in power federal spending on health more than doubled.

do you know why that is? because the states had been such a bunch of cockups the federal government realised the only way things were going to get done was if they started paying for projects themselves.

by the way, the states were also getting gst so they had more money to play with than ever before.

[mcdazz]

You haven't shown anything at all. :-)

The truth is that in the first budget, Costello slashed spending on health and redirected funding away from Public Health and into Private Health.

Costello also ceased funding programmes, including the Commonwealth Dental Programme, forcing the cost onto State Governments.

Overall Health funding may have increased, however the states weren't getting what they needed - especially with increasing medical costs, an elderly population etc etc.

[AussiePolitics]

yes i did, it is a fact that federal funding for health more than doubled under the howard administration.

the government was funding more projects directly because the states had messed up healthcare so badly people were dying in hospital corridors for crying out loud.

every cent from the gst went straight to the states - they had more money than any state government in australias history. they could have spent billions more on health.

[mcdazz]

What have you shown? No links, no data, no nothing - just claims.

In regards to money to the states, yes, they did get GST funds - and at the same time, other funds were being redirected away from them and they also had to cover additional health costs.

Funding more projects? Like the PET scanners that were delayed for 7 years?

Or Abbott delaying the Gardasil injections?

Hmm - they were Federal responsibilities and they were delayed by Tony Abbott.

[AussiePolitics]

oh and cutting the dental plan - do you know whose responsibility dental care has been? the states. it was not howards fault that the nsw government had screwed up healthcare so badly people just expected to federal government to make up for its mistakes.

[mcdazz]

Indeed it had been the states responsibility - Keating acted after a 1991/1992 report and provided funding in 1993/1994 budget.

[AussiePolitics]

at the time the howard government dropped the program there were no official dental waiting lists because the state labor government decided to stop counting them so they could lie to voters and say look how many people are no longer on our waiting lists. another flat out lie? no, as i just shown it was nsw labor who lied. and no i did not lie about the fact that it was a one off program under keating.

[mcdazz]

You seem to be focussed on NSW - you do realise that NSW isn't the only state in Australia, don't you?

By the way, the Liberals were in Government in NSW from 25 March 1988 through to 4 April 1995 - that was while the CDHP was under way.

Your conspiracy theory just doesn't add up - the waiting lists in NSW happened because of the Liberal State Gov - not Labor.

Please get your facts right.

[AussiePolitics]

the money would have been better spent on cutting surgery waiting times - at the time it was a fact that there was no-one on dental waiting lists. the nsw government - the same bunch of incompetent fools who are about to get raped at the next election despite the fact that there's an incompetent opposition was spending 6 billion dollars on health in 96 and had record numbers of patients on waiting lists.

[mcdazz]

"...at the time it was a fact that there was no-one on dental waiting lists...".

Another flat out lie.

Waiting lists were reduced (which indicated the success of the plan) however it is a total lie to say that there was no longer anyone on the waiting list.

In fact, according to a senate committee, the waiting lists increased dramatically following the termination of the CDHP.

[AussiePolitics]

yes it was a state responsibility and if the state had been doing its job properly keating would not have had to buy votes by propping up incompetent state governments who wrecked our health system. look at nsw labor for crying out loud. what an absolute joke.

[AussiePolitics]

btw even under the labor government it was acknowledged that the scheme was designed as a ONE OFF thing to enable the states to catch up. so you're condemning the liberals for axing a scheme that labor would have axed anyway you bloody hypocrite.

[mcdazz]

@AussiePolitics - geez, now you're just getting nasty and resorting to name calling.

That's really quite pathetic - it doesn't say a lot about you or the points you're making up as you go along.

[AussiePolitics]

you're a hypocrite - you make make big claims about the howard government cutting health and not giving the states enough money without a shred of evidence and as soon as i respond with obvious facts suddenly you need sources to back it up.

if you knew anything about the keating dental plan you would know it was only ever a one off measure. you would also know if you looked at the government budget that health spending had doubled under howard.

gst let the states spend more than ever before

[mcdazz]

I strongly suggest you go and and read some of the AMA reports about funding.

Back in 2000, the AMA stated:

"Federal and state funding for public hospitals is increasing at barely 4% a year while increases of more than 8% a year is needed as a catch-up and to meet patient expectations of the system in the future."

But what would they know - they are only doctors working in the health system that you claimed was receiving double the funding.

[AussiePolitics]

ah i see now you've clearly lost the debate about labors dental plan you which to move on. ok then.

so you've just been telling me this whole time that the howard government had been cutting billions and you've been sitting on this quote which showed that funding has increased?

and yes the difference between the 95-6 labor health budget and the 06-7 budget is that in this time health funding had DOUBLED. i fail to see how a quote from 2000 discussing funding then disproves this.

[mcdazz]

Hmmm - it's clear you haven't been reading anything I've been posting.

All throughout, you've been claiming that Keating implemented the CDHP because of NSW Labors incompetence - and yet, they weren't even in Government when it was implemented - it was actually the Liberals.

By the way, I have been saying all along that while the Budget looks like Health funding is increasing, the reality is that the funding isn't all going directly to the State Governments. You keep ignoring this.

[AussiePolitics]

"Years later and the funding still isn't adequate."

yet your quote was only stated after howard had been in power for 4 years and yet its funny how at the end of his time in office health funding had doubled.

[mcdazz]

Nope, I've still been talking about the Dental Plan (when replying to you) as well as other topics such as the PET scanners, Gardasil etc.

Unfortunately, YouTube seems to post the messages all over the place - and it's getting damn confusing.

[AussiePolitics]

"I have been saying all along that while the Budget looks like Health funding is increasing"

no you haven't, first you argued that funding was cut massively, then you argued that it went up according to the ama but not enough (even tho you only used a quote from 2000) then you just said he was not giving all the funding directly to the state governments instead of funding projects himself.

[mcdazz]

Actually, the quote was to highlight the fact that the AMA and the doctors know that the Federal and State Governments were still not providing adequate funding even after the Howard Government had been in for a number of years.

Years later and the funding still isn't adequate.

[AussiePolitics]

there have always been waiting lists in the state but it was not until nsw labor that they reached such bad proportions. its hilarious someone is defending such an incompetent government.

and keating introduced it in the budget because australia was still barely beginning a slow recovery from a recesion that everyone blamed labor for. of course keating was going to throw money at every project possible to get re-elected.

[mcdazz]

"there have always been waiting lists in the state but it was not until nsw labor that they reached such bad proportions."

Yes - after the CDHP had been scrapped by the Liberals the waiting lists increased from 380,000 to over 500,000 by May 98.

Waiting times increased from 6 to between 8 and 5 years.

In 2004/2005, the Liberals were subsidising Private Health Dental work to the tune of over $368 million and compared to $82 million for other dental services.

[AussiePolitics]

you look forward to proof? you have not provided one shred of evidence either.

it was the labor government who kicked up a fuss over the dental rebate being scrapped because they were too incompetent to provide something that they were supposed too.

and how do you know if it increased? the nsw labor government stopped keeping track of people on waiting lists so it could look better until howard scrapped the scheme.

[mcdazz]

The information that I proved is readily available via Google and a few clicks.

The CDHP was working across the nation in all states and territories.

Costello himself acknowledged it in his 96/97 budget:

"As waiting times for public dental health services have now been reduced, funding for the Commonwealth Dental Programme will cease from 1 January 1997..."

By May 1998, over 500,000 people were on waiting lists of between 8 months and 5 years.

By 2007, the list was over 650,000.

[AussiePolitics]

parts of that constitutional amendment were held to be unconstitutional and it was ignored because most governments realised that states when managed competently were better placed to run health.

i wouldnt trust an amendment from the chifley government - the same socialist bunch of fools who wanted to socialise all of australias banks

[mcdazz]

It doesn't matter how it came to be in the Constitution - it is there.

Saying it is unconstitutional is a cop out.

Howards intervention into Aboriginal communities was thought to be unconstitutional, but it didn't stop him.

Howard could have used the funds he was throwing at Private Health companies to reduce the waiting lists or directly fund hospitals - bypassing State Governments - but he didn't.

All it would take was working with the State Govs - something Howard would not do.

[AussiePolitics]

what matters is a fair chunk of that legislation was put in the constitution was ruled unconstitutional and most governments have acknowledged that it remained the role of the states to have healthcare.

your logic about howard helping insurance companies is just plain wrong. by your logic schools would be better off if they stopped funding private schools even though the massive influx into the state system would stretch resources even further and do more harm.

[mcdazz]

What sections were ruled unconstitutional? I'd be interested in seeing any information on (xxiiiA.) as having been ruled unconstitutional, as it covers pensions, child endowment, unemployent etc etc.

Regardless, Section 96 of the Constitution allows for the Federal Government to provide Grants for whatever explicit purpose it wants. The State however can disagree to accept the Grant, but would be unlikely to do so.

Howard increased funding to private schools as the cost of public schools

[AussiePolitics]

secondly, the point i have been making is the keating government started funding dentistry for the same reason it promised tax cuts before it realised it was too broke to deliver them - to buy the election.

howard inherited an economy keating insisted was in surplus. it was actually over 90 billion dollars in debt which obviously influenced what howard was able to spend. howard is the bad guy because he made the tough economic choices which are the reason our economy weathered the GFC so well.

[mcdazz]

The point you keep missing is that the CDHP was implemented as the result of a Report into health in 91/92 - nothing to do with the 96 election.

It was included in the 93/94 Budget - 3/2 years before the election.

Nothing to do with an election - everything to do with a report.

We both agree that Howard was in a tough situation and needed to do something - but the fact is that he took funds from Public Health and put them in the hands of Private Insurance.

[AussiePolitics]

you do realise that both parties believe in perpetual campaigning. with an election every three years everything is political. for instance - labor took the report in 92 and said if reelected they would do that.

and the reason i used the public/private schools exampel is to show how if you keep the costs down in the private system ultimately it saves the government more because more people switch to private.

[mcdazz]

By the same token, most politicians make the hard decisions in the beginning of their term in the hope that people have forgotten this by the time the next election comes around. Likewise, they like to "sweeten" the electorate prior to the next election by throwing funds at them.

Howard has stated this himself a number of times, including after his loss to Rudd.

This is why he started throwing the bonuses out to all and sundry.

[AussiePolitics]

both parties do throw around a lot of cash during election time and every single time they're in opposition they accuse the gov of pork barreling and then do no different when they win. i guess we can at least agree on that.

[mcdazz]

Oh, I'm sure we agree on a lot of things, especially so in regards to pork barrelling.

Both sides are definitely equal in that regard.

Both sides are a disappointment in that regard - that's the reason why I can't bring myself to support either party.

Recently I've looked at some of One Nations policies - as much as they were a hopeless party, *some* (but not all) of their policies actually make sense.

Never thought I'd ever say that. ;-)

[zzsharka]

@mcdazz Which ones ? The racial ones would create all out a warfare here. (The hitler mentality)

[mcdazz]

By the way - section (xxiiiA.) was part of the 1946 Social Services Referendum.

It was put to the people and the people voted "Yes".

All 6 States (at the time) approved with the "Yes" vote getting 54.4 percent of the votes.

To my knowledge - and I have searched - it was never declared unconstitutional.

[AussiePolitics]

howard increased funding to private schools at the cost of public schools?

first of all rudd is doing exactly the same thing.

why? because even he understands that if he withdrew funding from private schools it would make things WORSE for the public system because the resources would be stretched massively by the influx of students.

[AussiePolitics]

btw that said on the whole i actually think keating was a brilliant treasurer in terms of the neoliberal reforms he and labor made to the economy which fraser was unable to do. you do realise that labor today is more right wing than the liberals were under fraser.

[mcdazz]

Keating had his moments, but the economy certainly suffered during his time.

I'd like to point out that I support neither Liberal nor Labor parties.

I especially don't like Howard.

Howard dragged the country back out of the pit, however he also looked after the interests of "friends", including Stan Howard.

Yes, Labor are now more right then ever before (not necessarily a bad thing).

If only they can stop f**king up.

What are your thoughts about Rudds "new" Health Policy?

[mcdazz]

The Howard/Costello Government instead pumped some 400 million dollars into Private Health subsidies for dental work while ignoring those on the waiting lists.

But wait - the Liberals argued that it's a State issue - nothing to do with Federal Gov.

Wrong.

Section 51 of the Aust Consitution states:

"(xxiiiA.) The provision of...medical and dental services (but not so as to authorise any form of civil conscription)"

Keating recognised this - Howard ignored it.

[AussiePolitics]

"The information that I proved is readily available via Google and a few clicks" as is mine.

secondly you accuse howard of core and non-core promises in response to the fact that keating lied about tax cuts at the 93 election. well guess what? labor claimed in 96 that the budget was in surplus. so howard based his economic policies and promises on it. however when he actually won the election - SURPRISE 90 BILLION DOLLARS DEBT.

[mcdazz]

I don't deny that Keating put this country into deficit.

The point I was making was that you continually say that Labor lies - and yet, we have Howard telling lies about core and non-core promises, his lies about never bringing in a GST, etc, etc.

The reality is that all politicians lie - but for some reason, you think Howard is a saint.

[AussiePolitics]

yes, but keating did leave the country in deficit but worst of all he claimed all through the 1996 election campaign that it was in surplus. there are a range of quotes from beazley at the time saying exactly the same thing. so tell me, if you promise a service before the election because you have been led to believe the government has money is it your fault there is not enough for it when you win?

[mcdazz]

"...if you promise a service before the election..."

The CDHP was implemented in 93/94 - not before the election as you claim. Keating acted on a recommendation from a National Health Report.

Keating didn't promise it prior to an election - it had already been in place.

[AussiePolitics]

i was referring to keating lying about tax cuts - at least howard had the balls to have an election on the issue when he changed his mind. he didnt get elected then say "sorry ill do it anyway.

[AussiePolitics]

oh and i dont think howard was an angel but at least he had the balls to go to an election on an issue he changed his mind on and tell people he had. i never heard keating hold another election before he cancelled his promised tax cuts.

[AussiePolitics]

no, keating implemented the dental health scheme as a one off thing and then when labor came to power waiting lines started to blow out and they threw a tantrum because they expected the federal government to keep on funding dental which they should have done.

and actually yes, it is a fact that waiting lines were not as bad before state labor took over.

[mcdazz]

@AussiePolitics - so you can prove that? I look forward to the proof. I've read that Tony Abbott refer to it as "time limited", however, Tony Abbott is and always will be useless.

EVERY other document I have seen does not refer to it as time limited.

In fact, the AMA have stated "In 1996 the Federal Treasurer cited reduced waiting times for dental services as a justifiable reason for scrapping the Dental Health Program." which is exactly how it was.

[AussiePolitics]

and yes, the dental plan was nothing but a vote buying exercise by an old unpopular government. it was no different to keatings L-A-W LAW claim. remember how keating promised tax cuts before the 93 election and then remember that the country was broke and he couldnt deliver them after the election?

howard had to inherit an economy that was basically derided in the reason as white trash. funny how the liberals are the bad guys because they have to do tough things to fix the economy.

[mcdazz]

Like John Howards core and non-core promises?

The Liberals did do a good job of bringing things back in to order - and then they went and wasted billions of dollars by buying votes themselves.

Matilda Bakery, National Textiles (Howards brother), the Australian Rain Corporation, the Baby Bonus etc etc - wasted tax payers money that could have been spent on fixing health or buying PET Scanners that actually help save lives.

How many billions did Howard pay to the Private Health companies?

[AussiePolitics]

i dont know what planet you are on but health has primarily always been the duty of state governments - they're the ones who run our hospitals and always have.

and yes, howard helped private health which would keep premiums down prompting more people to join, relieving pressure on the public system. its the same as private schools - the government funds them to keep it cheap enough so that more parents can send their kids there and it costs the government 50% less per student.

[mcdazz]

I don't disagree - but the fact is that Howard and Costello have denied any responsibility while the Constitution specifically states that Health and Dental is also a responsibility of the Federal Government.

This is why Keating got off his butt and actively did something to help the states - and he actually had success in doing so.

Peter Costello even said as much - and yet, you continue to deny it.

[mcdazz]

Both Howard and Costello told us that the Federal Government has no responsibility over taking over the States Health responsibilities - but the Constitution clearly states otherwise.

Are you going to tell me that the Constitution is wrong?

[AussiePolitics]

the keating government in its final years in office decided to provide a one-off payment of money over a four-year period for dental health to try to relieve the incompetence of the nsw state government and buy votes at the 96 election. for you to then come around and say the liberals are bad for ending a one off scheme that labor was going to end anyway is just sad.

[mcdazz]

That is flat out wrong - the Keating Government had funding for the Commonwealth Dental in the 93/94 Budget and the programme began in January 94.

[AussiePolitics]

how does that make it wrong? the keating government said it was a one off four year program. that is a fact. read hansard if you don't believe me. secondly howard cut it because a) the government was billions of dollars in debt and b) it was a vote buying exercise designed to make up for the incompetence of the nsw government. the money would have been better spent in an area of health where there actually were waiting lists.

[mcdazz]

It makes your comment wrong because you were claiming that Keating "decided to provide a one-off payment of money over a four-year period for dental health to try to relieve the incompetence of the nsw state government and buy votes at the 96 election."

The Government in NSW at the time Keating implemented the CDHP was a LIBERAL Government.

And yet, you continually blame NSW Labor for Keating deciding to implement the CDHP to alleviate Dental waiting lists around Australia.

[AussiePolitics]

no it was you who has not been reading anything i have been saying. what part of keating was trying to buy the election dont you understand? when howard took over he quite rightly said that health was the responsibility of the state.

"while the Budget looks like Health funding is increasing, the reality is that the funding isn't all going directly to the State Governments" because he was bypassing the incompetent states and funding projects directly making it easier on them.

[AussiePolitics]

because you are being blatantly misleading - you take a project that the keating government said was a one off - the dental assistance - and then you condemn the howard government for doing exactly what the keating government said it was going to do.

"other funds were being redirected away from them and they also had to cover additional health costs." well actually since the howard government had doubled the amount of money it was contributing to health the opposite was true.

[mcdazz]

Howard and Costello took money directly away from the States and paid it as subsidies to Private Health Insurance companies.

Money that could have gone towards public hospitals has been diverted to Private Health Companies - however, on paper, that money appears to be spent on health.

It does not go to the state governments whatever you might think and it costs tax payers over $3 billion per year.

[baconboy666]

Spot on. The Liberal party has been slowly destroying Australia.

[AussiePolitics]

that is a lie. federal funding on health was at 5.2 billion dollars between 95-96 (just before howard took over) and between 06-07 the last years of the howard government it has more than doubled to 10.7 billion.

the reason the states like to lie was because they had fucked up public health so badly the howard government was having to pay for more and more of it

[gnarlyest]

Mike is my hero, a true Aussie of high standards. I cry from laughter when he g's Alan Jones - "Yes, Yes, it's those Muslims, those Lebanese". I wanna invite him to dinner one day.

[youssef1011987]

can i invite you first to dinner? you wont make it out alive