Evolution disproves adam and eve. As a result, there is no original sin and the whole damn thing falls apart. Its a load of crap and makes no sense at all.
Well, Muslims do not hold up the view of original sin, but ORIGINAL FORGIVENESS in a sense. If you ask for forgiveness and YOU ARE SINCERE, God will have MERCY on you and thus, Allah will forgive you. All people are born as Muslims according to Islam. This means they are free from sin. Young babies and people with things like genetic and all sort of mental diseases and stuff ALL GO TO HEAVEN! They pretty much have a get out of jail free card. It's so easy for them.
An argument is defeated when someone does not have an answer to an argument, ignores it and then restates an original position.
Again:
"Why can't Jehovah forgive sin without killing anyone? We can. My dog can but Jehovah cannot."
"Jehovah requires blood sacrifice because..."
We'll take this 1st answer to its logical conclusion. Christians use many different answers but none make sense. We'll start with whatever argument you want to try first.
Look at the responses blaming people "They want to be like God, those filthy, disgusting, evil worms!"
Who made the people? Seriously, if you write a program and the program is horrible, terrible - absolutely disgusting. Who's at fault? If you raise children that steal, murder and rape wouldn't you feel like you failed.. and you didn't make the genetics! The creation is a mirror on the creator so if people are revolting, disgusting garbage - the creator is as well.
Well his nature is like his personailty. and nobody made it because that's the way he is. the killing you're talking about was God punishing sinful nations. God wasnt abiding by his rules when he died on the cross he was helping man abide by the rules since we failed miserably at it.
So because of his "personality" - he can't forgive people without killing someone? That's a MESSED up personality!
"God punishing sinful nations"
These were basically his children. If your children are starting to believe in the Raelians - do you nip it in the bud, tell them that it's all crap and talk them out of it... or do you slaughter them?
"we failed miserably"
We're DISGUSTING, MISERABLE WORMS!... wait, who made us and should therefore ALSO be called a miserable failure?
"killing you're talking about was God punishing sinful nations."
Ahhh... No, those bad pagans aren't the only targets of this god's limitless evil. Jehovah kills 70,000 ISRAELIS because David took a census, he kills Aaron's children because they made a bad sacrifice, he "allows" Job's family to be killed over a bet, he ALMOST kills Moses but his wife circumsizes their child just before Jehovah strikes, He is talked out of murdering ALL of Israel twice by Moses.
No he set up a rule that the wages of sin is death. going back on your word seems like something a wishy-washy god would do, don't you think? and when God made us we were perfect and without sin, but we still had free will but man chose to sin.
1) Why not: "The wages of sin are a good apology". This would've seemed fair and saved millions of souls and his son from dying on a cross.
2) Are the wages of disobedience death in your household? Would you kill your child if he disobeyed you? What would you think of a parent who did do that?
3) Why would a god have to make rules for itself? Do you make insane, extreme, arbitrary rules for your household? If the dog pees on the carpet do you lament that you'll have to kill a cat?
1) If he "cannot" do something then he is NOT omnipotent. Holy means connected to a god - what do you mean by holy?
2) So if you're perfect, you can commit major crimes against humanity! If you saw your neighbor hacking up his children - would you think he was more perfect or an insane psychopath?
3) Jehovah MUST abide by this law so it is for him as well.
Circles- Stick to one topic. Don't re-bring up defeated positions:
"Why couldn't Jehovah forgive Adam w/o a human sacrifice?"
I've answered everything you've said and instead of addressing my arguments, you just restate what you originally said.
The whole logic here IS cyclic - On my site I have a logic tree addressing your arguments and every other argument involving this notion. It seriously makes NO sense at all!
no you're asking a question I've already answered excpet it's slightly rephrased and I answer it with a slightly rephreased version of what I've already said.
and based on our conversation so far, i think we would have a hard time agreeing upon when a position is "defeated" :P
Honestly, if Elohim WAS omnipotent, wouldn't it be able to forgive sins without sacrificing itself to itself?
My dog pees on the carpet and I throw her outside cursing her with several curses so that neither she nor her puppies or her puppies' puppies could come back in the house. But WAIT, I love my dog so I decide to wait 4,000 years and then go into my backyard and sacrifice myself to myself to appease myself over a law I, with foreknowledge made. This MIGHT make sense on Bizarro world.
hey there I just wanted to say that if God forgave sins without blood payment then he would be breaking his own rules. He established the rule that sin must be paid for in blood and he has to serve justice.
1) Why would an omnipotent, perfect being make rules for itself? Do you make ridiculous, complex rules for yourself? If a dog spills the water dish do you lament that you can't put water back in unless you sacrifice a cat?
2) What justice? He murders infants, commands slavery, rape and genocide, murders 70K innocent Israelis because their king took a census etc etc. Christians claim whatever God does is just because he is God. YET it would be unjust to forgive sins without a human sacrifice?
3) Seriously WHY couldn't Jehovah just punish Adam, demand a good apology and then move on? Why can't it be: "..the wages of sin are a good apology?" Any time you say "God can't" you are stating that he is powerless or NOT omnipotent.. or behaving in a screwed up, bizarre, massively inefficient and spectacularly cruel way. This moronic rule would cost humanity endless amounts of suffering and God himself, his son's death on a cross. Why would he sacrifice himself to himself over HIS OWN rule!
God can't do things that are against his nature such as sin or not be God or stuff like that. The rule wasn't for God it was for man. He spelled it out very clearly that if you sin you will be punished. And if God just "let it slide," where would he draw the line? Would a murderer be punished? A thief? At what point would God say "Sorry that sin is too bad"? Either he would have to punish for all sin or for none.
"And if God just "let it slide," where would he draw the line?"
Have you ever told your child that if he does something wrong, you'd torture him forever with hot tongs? Why not? Where would you draw the line? Would you punish him if he murdered? You either have to torture him for everything or nothing... Ridiculous! Don't you use JUST and REASONABLE punishment with your children? Isn't that what you expect from others? Why does God get to torture people eternally over trivialities?
Forty-odd years ago I lost all faith and I I'm constantly amazed at how many of us Westerners cling to a rediculous belief.
Back in the seventies we thought that religion would die out by the end of the century...
There's no limit to the insecurity of the human race.
The pope is currently visiting Australia despite the current storm over pedophile priests in Australia and they're all queuing up to kiss his holy feet.
Those are excellent questions to ask yourself. As it so happens, philosophers through the ages have struggled with different forms of your question ('is god this much of a jerk?'), but formulated it into a general category called 'The problem of evil.' Is an all-powerful God, that allows such a nasty thing as original sin to goad unfortunate infants into eternal torment in Hell, really worth of your worship?
The lesson to take from the fruit is that we all want to be our own gods and this is basically the root of all evil.
God gave Adam and Eve the perfect living space without sin and death and he walked with them daily in the garden and yet they still chose to rebel. We would rebel against God whether he presented himself to us or not. We willingly choose disbelieve knowing that God is real through the evidence of his Creation itself so that man is without excuse and willingly ignorant.
He told her that she would become like God. This is the root of all sin and the root of what satan is trying to fool people today with evolution and the new age movement with people like Oprah telling people they can evolve into enlightened god-like beings. This is the lie of the occult, this is the lie of aliens, this is the lie of everything against God and it was the original warning to us all.
I believe this will be the ultimate deception that will usher in the end times.
2. Sorry, I ran out of room. Anyway, I think that the idea of "original sin" is a Catholic idea. Babies don't sin. If a baby is growing inside the womb, how could it sin? There's pretty much nothing it can do besides sit there and grow.
1. Good video, but there are a few points I must make. No where in the Bible does it say they ate an apple. Besides, it doesn't really matter what kind of fruit it was. Eating the fruit was so bad because God specifically told them not to. And the fruit wasn't just lying around. They were allowed to eat from any tree but THAT specific one. We're allowed to eat fruit now because God didn't say "Don't eat fruit." he just said "don't eat fruit from that tree," which they did.
Most Protestant Christians disagree with the concept of original sin. It is a misunderstanding of the fact that without Adam's sin, none of us would have had a chance to do so (sin) ourselves. Never are we blamed for someone else's sin.
Matthew 18:3 "... unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 19:14 "Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
Evolution disproves adam and eve. As a result, there is no original sin and the whole damn thing falls apart. Its a load of crap and makes no sense at all.
Moonbogg 2 years ago
Well, Muslims do not hold up the view of original sin, but ORIGINAL FORGIVENESS in a sense. If you ask for forgiveness and YOU ARE SINCERE, God will have MERCY on you and thus, Allah will forgive you. All people are born as Muslims according to Islam. This means they are free from sin. Young babies and people with things like genetic and all sort of mental diseases and stuff ALL GO TO HEAVEN! They pretty much have a get out of jail free card. It's so easy for them.
oombuddah 2 years ago
An argument is defeated when someone does not have an answer to an argument, ignores it and then restates an original position.
Again:
"Why can't Jehovah forgive sin without killing anyone? We can. My dog can but Jehovah cannot."
"Jehovah requires blood sacrifice because..."
We'll take this 1st answer to its logical conclusion. Christians use many different answers but none make sense. We'll start with whatever argument you want to try first.
templarart 3 years ago
Look at the responses blaming people "They want to be like God, those filthy, disgusting, evil worms!"
Who made the people? Seriously, if you write a program and the program is horrible, terrible - absolutely disgusting. Who's at fault? If you raise children that steal, murder and rape wouldn't you feel like you failed.. and you didn't make the genetics! The creation is a mirror on the creator so if people are revolting, disgusting garbage - the creator is as well.
templarart 3 years ago
"God can't do things that are against his nature"
What is "his nature"? Who made it? If he can't do certain things... why? Doesn't that refute omnipotence?
"...such as sin"
Jehovah kills children, kills the innocent, deceives, tortures, orders slavery, genocide, rape... WHAT sin could Jehovah NOT perform?
"the rule wasn't for God it was for man."
But he has to abide by this horrible law despite ALL the negative, horrible outcomes. Doesn't sound smart, just or omnipotent to me.
templarart 3 years ago
Well his nature is like his personailty. and nobody made it because that's the way he is. the killing you're talking about was God punishing sinful nations. God wasnt abiding by his rules when he died on the cross he was helping man abide by the rules since we failed miserably at it.
flamingmuffincowpie 3 years ago
So because of his "personality" - he can't forgive people without killing someone? That's a MESSED up personality!
"God punishing sinful nations"
These were basically his children. If your children are starting to believe in the Raelians - do you nip it in the bud, tell them that it's all crap and talk them out of it... or do you slaughter them?
"we failed miserably"
We're DISGUSTING, MISERABLE WORMS!... wait, who made us and should therefore ALSO be called a miserable failure?
templarart 3 years ago
I NEED to add on here:
"killing you're talking about was God punishing sinful nations."
Ahhh... No, those bad pagans aren't the only targets of this god's limitless evil. Jehovah kills 70,000 ISRAELIS because David took a census, he kills Aaron's children because they made a bad sacrifice, he "allows" Job's family to be killed over a bet, he ALMOST kills Moses but his wife circumsizes their child just before Jehovah strikes, He is talked out of murdering ALL of Israel twice by Moses.
templarart 3 years ago
No he set up a rule that the wages of sin is death. going back on your word seems like something a wishy-washy god would do, don't you think? and when God made us we were perfect and without sin, but we still had free will but man chose to sin.
flamingmuffincowpie 3 years ago
1) Why not: "The wages of sin are a good apology". This would've seemed fair and saved millions of souls and his son from dying on a cross.
2) Are the wages of disobedience death in your household? Would you kill your child if he disobeyed you? What would you think of a parent who did do that?
3) Why would a god have to make rules for itself? Do you make insane, extreme, arbitrary rules for your household? If the dog pees on the carpet do you lament that you'll have to kill a cat?
templarart 3 years ago
1)Because since God's presence is holy he cannoyt tolerate sin.
2)No, but since I am not perfect either I can't kill anyone who isn't.
3)The rule "the wages of sin is death" wasn't a rule for god, it was a rulel god set for man.
i think we're arguing around in circles here.
flamingmuffincowpie 3 years ago
1) If he "cannot" do something then he is NOT omnipotent. Holy means connected to a god - what do you mean by holy?
2) So if you're perfect, you can commit major crimes against humanity! If you saw your neighbor hacking up his children - would you think he was more perfect or an insane psychopath?
3) Jehovah MUST abide by this law so it is for him as well.
Circles- Stick to one topic. Don't re-bring up defeated positions:
"Why couldn't Jehovah forgive Adam w/o a human sacrifice?"
templarart 3 years ago
I've answered everything you've said and instead of addressing my arguments, you just restate what you originally said.
The whole logic here IS cyclic - On my site I have a logic tree addressing your arguments and every other argument involving this notion. It seriously makes NO sense at all!
bikinilane(.)com(/)atheism(/)propitdes00(.)shtml
templarart 3 years ago
no you're asking a question I've already answered excpet it's slightly rephrased and I answer it with a slightly rephreased version of what I've already said.
and based on our conversation so far, i think we would have a hard time agreeing upon when a position is "defeated" :P
flamingmuffincowpie 3 years ago
Honestly, if Elohim WAS omnipotent, wouldn't it be able to forgive sins without sacrificing itself to itself?
My dog pees on the carpet and I throw her outside cursing her with several curses so that neither she nor her puppies or her puppies' puppies could come back in the house. But WAIT, I love my dog so I decide to wait 4,000 years and then go into my backyard and sacrifice myself to myself to appease myself over a law I, with foreknowledge made. This MIGHT make sense on Bizarro world.
templarart 3 years ago
hey there I just wanted to say that if God forgave sins without blood payment then he would be breaking his own rules. He established the rule that sin must be paid for in blood and he has to serve justice.
flamingmuffincowpie 3 years ago
1) Why would an omnipotent, perfect being make rules for itself? Do you make ridiculous, complex rules for yourself? If a dog spills the water dish do you lament that you can't put water back in unless you sacrifice a cat?
2) What justice? He murders infants, commands slavery, rape and genocide, murders 70K innocent Israelis because their king took a census etc etc. Christians claim whatever God does is just because he is God. YET it would be unjust to forgive sins without a human sacrifice?
templarart 3 years ago
3) Seriously WHY couldn't Jehovah just punish Adam, demand a good apology and then move on? Why can't it be: "..the wages of sin are a good apology?" Any time you say "God can't" you are stating that he is powerless or NOT omnipotent.. or behaving in a screwed up, bizarre, massively inefficient and spectacularly cruel way. This moronic rule would cost humanity endless amounts of suffering and God himself, his son's death on a cross. Why would he sacrifice himself to himself over HIS OWN rule!
templarart 3 years ago
God can't do things that are against his nature such as sin or not be God or stuff like that. The rule wasn't for God it was for man. He spelled it out very clearly that if you sin you will be punished. And if God just "let it slide," where would he draw the line? Would a murderer be punished? A thief? At what point would God say "Sorry that sin is too bad"? Either he would have to punish for all sin or for none.
flamingmuffincowpie 3 years ago
"God can't do things that are against his nature"
What is "his nature"? Who made it? If he can't do certain things... why? Doesn't that refute omnipotence?
"...such as sin"
Jehovah kills children, kills the innocent, deceives, tortures, orders slavery, genocide, rape... WHAT sin could Jehovah NOT perform?
"the rule wasn't for God it was for man."
But he has to abide by this horrible law despite ALL the negative outcomes. Don't sound omnipotent to me.
templarart 3 years ago
"And if God just "let it slide," where would he draw the line?"
Have you ever told your child that if he does something wrong, you'd torture him forever with hot tongs? Why not? Where would you draw the line? Would you punish him if he murdered? You either have to torture him for everything or nothing... Ridiculous! Don't you use JUST and REASONABLE punishment with your children? Isn't that what you expect from others? Why does God get to torture people eternally over trivialities?
templarart 3 years ago
OH RIGHT, i forgot
WHERE DOES IT SAY IN THE BIBLE, THAT THE FRUIT WAS AN APPLE?
Surathan 3 years ago
Yes, innocent children goto "hell"
as do braindead brainwashed whores, like yourself.
Surathan 3 years ago
BTW I hope you're making up for lost time!
Kisses
parkvillepictures 3 years ago
Good vid Stephy!
Forty-odd years ago I lost all faith and I I'm constantly amazed at how many of us Westerners cling to a rediculous belief.
Back in the seventies we thought that religion would die out by the end of the century...
There's no limit to the insecurity of the human race.
The pope is currently visiting Australia despite the current storm over pedophile priests in Australia and they're all queuing up to kiss his holy feet.
I give up.
parkvillepictures 3 years ago
stephywise916,
Those are excellent questions to ask yourself. As it so happens, philosophers through the ages have struggled with different forms of your question ('is god this much of a jerk?'), but formulated it into a general category called 'The problem of evil.' Is an all-powerful God, that allows such a nasty thing as original sin to goad unfortunate infants into eternal torment in Hell, really worth of your worship?
Terren5 3 years ago
The lesson to take from the fruit is that we all want to be our own gods and this is basically the root of all evil.
God gave Adam and Eve the perfect living space without sin and death and he walked with them daily in the garden and yet they still chose to rebel. We would rebel against God whether he presented himself to us or not. We willingly choose disbelieve knowing that God is real through the evidence of his Creation itself so that man is without excuse and willingly ignorant.
destinylab 3 years ago
He told her that she would become like God. This is the root of all sin and the root of what satan is trying to fool people today with evolution and the new age movement with people like Oprah telling people they can evolve into enlightened god-like beings. This is the lie of the occult, this is the lie of aliens, this is the lie of everything against God and it was the original warning to us all.
I believe this will be the ultimate deception that will usher in the end times.
destinylab 3 years ago
2. Sorry, I ran out of room. Anyway, I think that the idea of "original sin" is a Catholic idea. Babies don't sin. If a baby is growing inside the womb, how could it sin? There's pretty much nothing it can do besides sit there and grow.
flamingmuffincowpie 3 years ago
1. Good video, but there are a few points I must make. No where in the Bible does it say they ate an apple. Besides, it doesn't really matter what kind of fruit it was. Eating the fruit was so bad because God specifically told them not to. And the fruit wasn't just lying around. They were allowed to eat from any tree but THAT specific one. We're allowed to eat fruit now because God didn't say "Don't eat fruit." he just said "don't eat fruit from that tree," which they did.
flamingmuffincowpie 3 years ago
Most Protestant Christians disagree with the concept of original sin. It is a misunderstanding of the fact that without Adam's sin, none of us would have had a chance to do so (sin) ourselves. Never are we blamed for someone else's sin.
Matthew 18:3 "... unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 19:14 "Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
ShaundalynChic 3 years ago