yup let me say the guy who is weilding the katana doesnt fully understand the meaning of the way of the samurai sword 1: the edge is curved for cutting which means if this were a real fight the long sword would have lost a foot or two 2 the longsword was made for thrusting and hacking which means he should have used more force in his attack and not swingit it around like a french pointersword its not made for that. its a meideval sword of force not an gentleman sword that was used in the 1600ct
@Blue138UEF it's a Langes Messer, not a long sword - technique is quite different for this type of sword. And it's good, if you understood the way of the Samurai sword. Be proud !
A longsword is a very large two handed sword designed to breakup pike formations. This is not a longsword. Furthermore, the longsword was most decidedly not swung about with artless hacking. Longsword fighting techniques were every bit as sophisticated as any other type of sword. /watch?v=tsGU5KI1qJA
@AdNeeb "The term "hand-and-a-half sword" is modern (late 19th century).[6] During the first half of the 20th century, the term "bastard sword" was used regularly to refer to this type of sword" from wiki, and yes it is mostly used in 2 hands but can be used in one, thus being a hand and a half sword.
No, the term hand and a half actually refers to a grip with length sufficient for a hand and a half, i.e. you grip the pommel. It doesn't matter though, you got the term from D&D or some fantasy game or other and now you think you are a medievalist.
@baalshin Correct, and for certain fencers it isn't allowed, I fence but use the discipline of a samurai. Neither are better, the man with the sword is the true factor, believe me when I say, I as a fencer, never underestimate a Kendo fighter.
Bah. A true Samurai would never allow himself to be defeated... Even so, he would die before bowing to another type of weapon. The weapon is not the matter, however, it is the wielder that makes it deadly, and since no true Samurai remain, it is impossible to tell which weapon is superior. Stick to what you like, and be good with it. Otherwise, you will lose, and others will have the right to say you suck.
Ok, so I practice Kumdo (Kendo) enough to where I'm a black belt, so I'm not just asking this out of the blue (forgive my ignorance, I'm not judging one bit) but I'm wondering if you could tell me a little of what you're doing here? I've seen several videos of people in similar amounts of armor and similar style of aluminum weaponry sparring. Does this practice have a specific name or scoring or anything like that or are you guys just having fun. I enjoy it either way, I'm just curious.
I think the specific name you're looking for are HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts). Some use aluminium weapons, other use nylon, some use blunted steel, some use all of the above. At this time there is no set rules, and there will perhaps never be any set rules. Most of the videos on YT is friendly sparring so scoring is not as important as learning.
So to answer: they are sparring, the name is HEMA, the scoring is not important and they are having fun. =)
@Steakboy080 we meet for sparring - 2 mins - no rules - no points. Choose a weapom, choose an opponent, agree to a level (Zero contact, light contact, full contact, brute force) and go.
Sorry, that came on a little stronger than I wanted. And rest assured, I tried for years to get into classical rapier fencing and didn't. So some of your comment is right. Lets leave it at that, and I'll be more moderate with my comments next time. Promised.
if you live in the US, contact J. Christoph Amberger, last adress in Baltimore, of the "Hammerterz Forum". He started off with Mensur before broadening his expertise onto other styles.
I'd suggest some speed training, otherwise you're both getting the idea of both weapons down pretty well. As for the shit talkers...true sword fighting never emulates closely choreographed work. People who think this is untrue have no idea, simply because long-arm melee is dead in most practical cases these days and thus has died with the bolt actions of WWII.
Sorry zukuru, I do not train with aluminum blades and I earned my right to talk. I did seven rapier fights with sharp blades and seconded 45 more. Nothing that can be filmed. But if interested, look up on YouTube "Hans Westmar Mensur", the first film titled "Mensur".
The film itself is ideologically very doubtful, but the fencing is very acurate.
So if you ask me what I do:
I look at the Schlägers on my wall, let my hairdresser wonder where I have the scars from and write comments to yoursalike.
Mensur looks very interesting. But I think I will stay with blunted longswords and the like. You can call me a coward byt I like bruises better then scars.
It would be nice to learn some basics about mensur fencing, the style looks so different from anything I've done.
tx for all your thoughts. The difference between you and us is:
we fight - with aluminum weapons, with minimum protection in a never practiced pairing.
you just talk - like keyboarwarriors use to do.
I would suggest to either upload your vids to underly your standpoint or to turn up to give us some experience (we meet every month) of your mastership.
In the meantime - I continue training and fighting - what will you do ?
@zukuru Don't get me wrong - I think what you do is cool-never saw another cross match before.Of course , when you're training with weapons you've got to be careful. When I used to train some MA ,our knives were made of wood-and we still were being careful .That was exactly my point- that you've got to be carefull... And after that I just went offtopic :) .I hope someday I can dedicate myself again to the MA,but untill then I prefer to improve my mastery over the Void"and winwithoutfighting";)
Maybe I did not get the joke, but how do you want to kill or seriously injure somebody if not by landing a hit? But I think we both agree that the first time one blade touches the opponent, the bout should be over. That is what the katana and Langes Messer are about (as well as any other weapon that is not for sports fencing).
@ BecksderPhilosoph:
that is why they changed to rapier, then epee, because longsword gets them all... There is no weapon that gets them all in all...
@LutzBrux1 I agree with @Super0jetFromLU They may not be top-duelists, but if they like this and are doing it for fun, I see no wrong in it.Besides ,I don't think think they're trying to kill each other ... :)
@LutzBrux1 But those aren't real swords and they have protective gear (Only in some places). My point was that its not about looking like Jedi doing all the "cool moves". I fight with plastic training swords from Cold Steel Swords and Knifes. They can seriously hurt people, but you just need to be careful. I've hit people but I was able to slow my self down a mila-second before the blow. You just need to smash the other person before they smash you CAREFULLY. I forgot that part. :P
really painful to watch..; as a fencing AND kendo practitioner, my eyes get hurt by watching the lack of technique of both guys... what the hell do they think they're doing...?
What are these two jesters doing? Langes Messer is not about dancing through wards, wagging around the tip of your blade like a lambs tail. And anyone using a katana would know better than prancing around several minutes and not landing one single decent hit.
Get a live guys, go back to your deskbound jobs and stop dreaming about swordmanship
@LutzBrux1 Its not about landing a hit, they only do that in Star Wars for show, its about KILLING THE PERSON WHO'S TRYING TO KILL YOU. If you fight me, my blade almost never clashes, its one of my ways of gettings the apponent. Yes, we know that they're not the best fighters in the world, but nobody is good on their first day of swordfighting. Give them a break and let them practice some.
@Super0jetFromLU As for the Star Wars : You might want to look at the duels at Star Wars from this angle: They are conducted in the contest of the Star Wars franchise's lore -a clash between two beings with precognitive and telekinetic powers ,each being attained certain level of mastery in the teachings of it's religion. Try to imagine you're dueling with someone who can read your mind and/or sees the future about 2 seconds ahead of you.How can you surprise such an opponent? Very hard best case
@Super0jetFromLU And that's why the duels in the Science Fiction saga of Star wars are made this way- the opponents are clashing blades trying to exhaust each other, and land the final blow,oh, and since IN THEORY lightsaber cuts carbonize the wound, the tactics in the lightsaber duels of the movies exclude the element of bleeding the opponent down.That's right,.avoiding to clash blades is trying to avoid the possible situation that your "weapon hand"might be immobilized- leaving you exposed ...
@Super0jetFromLU ... Which can be supplemented with quick attacks and withdrawals trying to bleed out your opponent (hitting blood vessel joints , maybe an artery,maybe trying to drain the your opponent's cranium blood vessels ,subsequentally blinding and killing him/her...) and getting out of your opponent's reach.The one who getts sloppy first loses...
Not at all. I to like the longsword more but it's by no mean better than any of these sword. You can do things with the messer and the katana that you can't do with a longsword.
Why? Do you mean early sword-making that was almost identical with folding/twisting and core wrapping of steel with different carbon content to make it homogenous? Or are you talking about later sword-making with better steel that had a homogenous at the beginning that didn't need foldning/twisting?
Or are you perhaps talking about something different in terms of sword-making?
The guy with the langes messer is failing becasue of his flourishment of the sword, therefor giving his movements and balance away. It's almost liek dropping it and screaming hit me.
The guy with the langes messer is failing becasue of his flourishment of the sword, therefor giving his movements and balance away. It's almost liek dropping it and screaming hit me.
The guy with the langes messer is failing becasue of his flourishment of the sword, therefor giving his movements and balance away. It's almost liek dropping it and screaming hit me.
The Katana's extra length over the Langes Messer gives it the offensive edge, while the Langes Messer's shorter, broader blade was better for defense, but the trick was getting past the Katana's length to take the offensive.
First: The guy with the Katana is Using KENDO TECHNIQUES... That are made for competition and punctuation, and are not practical at all. If he Used Kenjutsu Techniques Instead.. it Would be a match between to fighting techniques.
Second: The other guy is really good. Well, Both guys are, but hes good using a fighting technique.
And Kendo is a derivative a kenjutsu. The basics of the footwork, the engaging of the core (hara) and the fundemantals of how one parries, evades, moves, and attacks with a katana are all there (especially with "Kendo Kata") True, his footwork (like most people, even ..gasp, le real samurai) is not perfect and not representing a particular ryuha.
There's a lot of apparent fear, which I APPLAUD. Standing ovation for the attempted
The katana needs to be far more aggressive here. A smaller sword weaving about against a larger two hander and the two hander is trying to pick fancy lil shots? He should be crashing in and using his pwer advantage. A heavyweight boxer doesnt get into a jabbing match with a quick lightweight, he rushes him
@DamienNeverwinter I think you haven't analyzed the vid correctly because the fighter with the european blade didn't wielded a longsword or such but a onehanded ''langes Messer'' which probavly isn't heavier than the Katana. But even with a longsword who isn't much heavier than a Katana either you wouldn't achieve much with crashing power. It's better to use it's agility and versatility added to it's greater reach.
@Railriderchris Sorry perhaps I used the wrong term in 'crashing down' I meant being more aggressive and using more attacking manuveres to prevent the shorter blade from being able to work well. Really I meant -to pressure the onehander in order to keep him away at long range
More agressive means less controlled - we fight with metal weapons wearing minimum gear. I don't think, that ancient fighters, used to kill - would rush into anything with weapons. Not the ones, who survived.
We don't have to fight to survive - we fight to test our skills and techniques.
@zukuru You're right but i've seen many times that the more agressive fighter wins (i'm speaking of more or less equal experienced fighters) because it's hard to keep calm against a fierce attack. However we fight with foam wasters who have the weight of the real ones but who permit to fight on a way that would be dangerous with live blades.
I never wanted to criticize you, you're doing a great job in my opinion. Sorry if i made you misunderstand me, still much to learn in english ;-)
@zukuru Don't you think the difference is that with foam you have less fear to hurt your partner? I feel that using live blades for techniques and refrained sparring is great, but that full sparring is much better with foam swords. Btw we don't use the super-light LARP swords but those instead: /watch?v=XOdYSGB92sY
@zukuru What I meant was that as the katana appears to be less manuverable in finding openings, the way to compensate would be a powerful offence taking advantage of the stong two handed grip
@DamienNeverwinter Oh, i see! Well, in that case i'm with you, because i think too that to gain the initiative is very important in a fight. At least that's what i feel when i'm sparring, but of course it depends of the opponent..
hier an denkanstoß: am dem 15 jahrhundert begannen die japaner gezielt ressourcenreiche küstengebiete wie die koreas oder auch shanghais zu überfallen, im versuch einer invasion. vor dem 2. wk war der letzte feldzug 1685 definitiv gescheitert. an der truppenstärke lag es nicht, aber an mangel an verpflegung, vernünftiger führung und auch qualitativer waffen, wie funde ergeben haben!
leute, wieso sollten östliche soldaten den westlichen überlegen gewesen sein? mir bekannte archäologen haben bestätigt, dass die historischen katanas, die auf schlachtfeldern gefunden wurden, qualitativ minderwertiges eisen aufwiesen, zu 86 %!! die heutigen katanas bestehen aus europäischem stahl, und nicht aus japanischem, den es schon seit 300 jahren quasi nicht mehr gibt hat das mal niemand hinterfragt?! seit dem 14. jahrhundert hatten die japaner ressourcenprobleme, historisch erwiesen!
I have done historical fencing with a longsword, katana, and rapier, and I personally find the katana superior for me. Again, that's a personal thing. As for the langes messer...I dunno, that guy, while doing all his fancy arm changes, I could've cut clean across for a good contact as he was going. I understand a value of drawing in an opponent, but the guy with the langes messer seemed gratuitous. Way too much. And the person with the katana seemed kind of...fidgity. But that's just me.
@KingMakerRook Because you're a weeaboo and you know it...Japanese sword techniques suck as you can see in many "katana versus" video. Mainly because most of their professional warfare training didn't get pass down or mostly likely forgotten because of the "peaceful era". Most of the katana technique you see nowadays are from lords during "peace era" use to practice for mere sport NOT for combat. As you can clearly see how INEFFICIENT katana tech is in dual.
@akira357 First, mate, what is a weeaboo? Second, and I am not trying to be insulting or condescending, but the Katana being an inefficient weapon in one on one combat? I'm sorry, but calling a single weapon inefficient when there is such a strong history to it is tantamount to arrogance. With this one fight as basis, weapons don't decide a duel. Fighters do. And the Katana being bad? Hell no. Musashi alone, with a Katana or a side Wakizashi as well, won over sixty duels. A Bad sword?
@KingMakerRook stop getting you pants in a bunch weeaboo...In my previous post I talked about Katana technique, so just re-read it carefully and respond. As for katana being an amazing weapon, go search this up on youtube "Welt der Wunder - Katana vs. Schwert - Teil 2 " skipped to 5:59 and BEHOLD!
@akira357 First, I still have no idea what your made up word means.
Second, your example proves one thing and one thing only: any man who is stupid enough to slash a sword edge-on-edge that is strapped to a table will meet with disaster. What does this prove in way of tecnique? Nothing at all. As so many people have said, the sword doesn't make the duel. The fighter does. As for whether or not the katana is a good weapon, we have different opinions. Aguing past that is pointless, mate.
@KingMakerRook It doesn't hurt to go and search up the word "weeaboo". And I can see that it is very useless to discuss something with a person like you. Once again, you did not pay any attention to my post as you keep on MISSING the point! Your HUGE internet-ego shrouded over your senses. One more time, let me try and summarize what I had said. Japanese sword-technique suck, Bokken etc. lost every duel. Video I sent you, prove that katana IS NOT as efficient as long sword.
I never thought I'd actually chime in to defend the katana of all things, but the katana is actually a decent sword. Not amazing, mind you, but it's pretty good. It wouldn't have seen such widespread use if it didn't have SOME degree of effectiveness.
(Keep in mind that Germanic nations had an equivalent in the Grossemesser as well.)
No, it's not the sword, or its design; it's how people were taught to use it in more recent times that is the problem... Blame the ryu.
@HipposHateWater I agree with you to some extent - some Katana of good quality have been proven to stab through plate armour but even at the time of greatest use the sword - either Katana or Messer or longsword was a side arm - the bow,Poleaxe or Yari halbard was a much more important weapon - The English named themselves after the poleaxe before the invasion of Britain - only the Romans used the sword as the principle weapon in a systematic way & as at Teutorburg they where defeated by clubs!
@HipposHateWater Continued - as you said it is down to the person using the weapon.
I would direct you to a favourited video on MEMAG called samurai work shop by a channel by the same name - the techniques are similar to Talhoffer practical & empirical using all parts of the Katana - there is none of the mystical nonsense (that plagued most martial arts before MMA came along) the school. Musashi wrote the 5 rings & did many duels to prove that practical training beats mysticism his club remains
since neither had intent to kill the other testing the two martial arts in this manner wont answer any questions and since i don't see any two people out there who know both martial arts willing to kill each other to settle this i don't see the point of this other then some fun hitting each other with sword like objects
@gurkfisk89 dude,these swords(Katana) are probably the same as the western ones regarding construction.They can be made EASILLY by stock removal and fully hardened at the local lawn mower blade maker or spring maker,then a differential temper put on yourself so it doesnt snap.The edges are usually around 2 or 3mm thick but a nasty pressure cut can still be achieved so care needs to be taken.
The guy with the katana looks like he only knows very basic katana and good fencing technique
I don't know what to say. I agree that you can still get hurt by this blades and you have to take some care but I think that you agree that with a 2-3 mm thick edge you will not chop someones leg of. Did all that "how you can make a sword simulator" have anything to do with my comment?
Nice video (as are your other stuff). are those alu blades? You should try out some steel blades, Albion if you can afford. We use steel exclusively, but with coach fencing jackets to give more protection, we still keep it minimal however to keep us alert. I think the steel blades are much more alive and more fun to spar with. Where are you guys from?
I like European swords but I think katana should win this one because using two arms are stronger than one arm and also cuts are faster although shorter travel. But perhaps the footwork would have to be really good which means timing. Or maybe not. = )
Its nice to finally see an attempt to fight with metal swords. Wood is simply not the same when it comes to size and weight. Still its sad that you are unable to do a real thrust cause i have yet seen no protection which could deal with it.
katanas are made by 3,000-5,000 folds, im pretty sure the other piece of metal is made of 5-6 folds, i wonder why the katana didnt just break the piece of metal in half
@pleaseandthankyou24 Your attempt appears to me mostly based on fiction. You make it seem as if a medieval european sword would meet a katana, the katana would instantly break it in a half, in total disregard that european swords had their own history of development far over a thousand years and had to deal with much harder armor on the battlefield. Already in the antique there were Seax or late roman blades, who were equal to japanese blades in structure and durability.
@pleaseandthankyou24 Katanas were made from such a technique on account of Japanese not having the luxury of blast furnace. The folding is designed to give a higher quality steel by elimination of carbon and other pollutants, which is also what a blast furnace does. Many ancient, Indian & European, societies used the same method but as technology moved on so did the techniques. There are no account of Katanas breaking through any other period swords - unless you believe tv-shopping channel
i don't really get it why people become butthurt over sparring videos with retarded comment like "A REAL SAMURAI WOULD KILL YOU". Its like people training in different styles of martial arts, to be better prepared in any condition, not just under one set of rules.
@AuGeUNDoHr1 Also stechen kannst du mit einem Katana genauso. Rückhand schlagen mag nicht möglich sein, das wird aber wieder ausgeglichen durch die bessere Schneidefähigkeit.
@AuGeUNDoHr1 also die katanas die ich kenne haben etwa 2 cm rückschlagkante die in eine spitze übergeht.... ich glaube nicht, dass das zum töten reicht, man müsste wirklich perfekt die tödlichen punkte treffen, was schwierig ist bei einem guten gegner
It would be a nice comparison if the fighter with the katana here actually knew iaijustsu.
I'm currently studying iaijutsu, with emphasis on iaido (form & kata, a small difference exists), but I also spent a few years learning some German langschwert from an ARMA instructor (I never joined ARMA). We studied through Ringeck's fechtbuch of the Liechtenauer school and Meyer's fechtbuch too. Both weapons are deadly, but against a *lightly-armored or unarmored* opponent I would prefer a katana.
i like the langes messer better..but the blade matters little..the swordsman is the biggest factor in a blade fight..and in this case the fighter with the msser looked like the better swordsman
au das arme katana... ich glaub ich hab gesehen, wie er mit der schneide pariert hat... das hat bestimmt ne ordentliche kerbe hinterlasssen^^ ich liebe meine 3 katanas über alles^^ leider sind sie als ausstellungswaffen stumpf^^
It's not a longsword it's a messer. I don't know much about messer fighting so I hope someone with more knowledge of the art can give you a better answer. What I can do is commenting on longsword use. Some people let the sword flow from guard to guard almost all the time while other stay more stationary. It's different interpretations of the manuals. It's stated that you never stand still wich can be interpretated as you should move around and never stand in one guard...
But the sources also tell you that every guard protect some parts of your body and expose other parts. This let you know where your opponent probably will try to strike next. So by this it's wise to stand in one guard. Also the transition from one guard to an other give your opponent an opportunity to strike whithout you being well protected.
You also have techniques like "das Redel" (the wheel) where you move the tip of the sword in a circular motion so that the opponent...
don't see where the next cut or thrust is comming from as easy.
I think that weaving your weapon around is a valid thing to do, but it's not the only thing you can do. I see it like different styles like in boxing, there is inside fighters and outside fighters. None of these are /the right way to box/ but some prefer one style over the other. And if you want to be really good it's best to be able to switch between the two.
@gurkfisk89 Ok, that makes sense to me. I used to do boxing for 2 years, so I certainly get the analogy, it is a style- like you stated inside fighter, outside fighter, counter-puncher, boxer, etc.
Another question that comes to mind is why do you refer to it as a "long knife" oder auf Deutsch "Langes Messer". It certainly looks to be the length of a sword, is there a particularly distinction between a long knife or sword (like length), or is the Langes Messer a different type of sword?
A term langes Messer is used by the medieval masters to describe the weapon. I think that the main difference is that a messer only have one slightly curved edge. There is also some difference in the construction of the hilt, pommel and guard. There is also some messers that are really long like the kriegmesser which is a two handed weapon that resemble a katana with a crossguard.
Zukuru umm dude the katana user should win instanly no contest becase of the fact a Technique call " one with the wind" a simple forward jab hits in the chest also the smaller sword may hit close but a quick samurai katana user shoulmove or kick the opponents leg so thats all i have to say.
@Makemesad97 A simple quarter-rotation of the torso coupled with a strong block renders that particular move obsolete (pushing it aside), and opens the katana user (who will, after your described move be VERY overextended) to a wonderful little up-and-over slice across the neck.
Learn your swordfighting from instructors, not manga.
I think you are simplifying swordfights far too much. You could as well say that the messer fighter would win by just throwing the messer at the katana wielders face...
If you think that your "one with the wind" technique (or any other technique for that matter) is unbeatable than I don't know what to say.
@Makemesad97 A simple quarter-rotation of the torso coupled with a strong block renders that particular move obsolete (pushing it aside), and opens the katana user (who will, after your described move be VERY overextended) to a wonderful little up-and-over slice across the neck.
Learn your swordfighting from instructors, not manga.
@Makemesad97 what you say has no sense, how can you be sure of that? tne katana-user would surely win theorically?...i don't think so, and stop the stupid thinking about japanese swords better than europeans, it has no sense for a real fight
@Makemesad97 totally misunderstood...I'm Italian and I sincerely can't love my country...i don't like European and USA's pride, and most of all I really love japanese culture and samurai...for these reasons I hate when people simplify about this subject. a Kendoka, for example, would not be probably able to defeat any other type of swordman in a real fight...doing only kata and codified moves is useless, and this is what most katana users do thinking their weapon to be invincible!
@Makemesad97 Here is something i've heard from every MA-teacher i've visited in one way or another: TO be a good fighter you need good timing, balance and the ability to shift it right and a feeling for distance. All of them considered technique to be the least determining factor.
And from personal experience i can say, the simpler the technique, the more likely you can actually use it for fighting. Some mystic secret technique isn't going to win you anything.
Very much correct. In fact, fighting teachers in medieval times actually taught a very small amount of different techniques to their students in the beginning, and were much more concerned with how and when to apply them. Timing, positioning, tempo and many other things were considered much more essential than the prettiest strike possible. Even if you knew the perfect cut, it wouldn't be of much use if your opponent's shoddy blow hacked your arm off first, for example.
...it's not about the hammer. It's about how you work with it.
And a skilled fighter, whatever he's wielding, let it be a hammer, an axe, a falchion, a katana, let it be two wakizashis or a scimitar, or even a mace, could beat a katana fighter.
Your probably about 13 and have no experience with a real katana or any other weapon. I saw fighters with katanas being beaten up by two normal knifes with about 20cm length. It's about how good yourained with ur weapon of choice.
@SankeEngelskrieger Thats true....I have slight expierence and me and one of my friends "spar" He prefers dual kinves I prefer the Katana. So its truly about the user of the weapon. Such as the ....I forgot the situaition but I think it was Gigantic claymores vs short swords and the quick short sword won. so yes it is a 50 % senario type thing..
Hm...die Frau mit dem Katana benutzt das Katana aber eher wie einen Bidhänder ( heißt das so?). Interessant wäre wirklich ein Vergleich mit jemanden der den jap. Kampfstil beeherrscht.
An additional comment on grappling: I want to point out that grappling just makes sense with the langes messer and its actually one of the best advantages of the weapon over the katana.
The katana ideally requires both hands to use to be most effective. Once the katana has committed to a slash and the messer (hopefully) parries, the messer wielder can quickly close the distance, bind the opponents wrists and finish him off.
I watch you both fight and you have quite a bit of potential that isn't being realized.
Messer fencer should employ more grappling. He does a little bit at the end but there are numerous cases where grappling at the katana wielders wrists when he was extended in a failed attack would end the fight (like around 1:30).
Also, as a general comment, both "fighters" lack aggression or courage. None of the attacks have any power or commitment behind them and they all look weak. Be brave fellows!
@solitajre222 Katana is faster and strong, but take a lot more trainning to use. Long sword and broad sword easier to mass produce, a lot easier to use. Katana has the edge over other swords, but the japanese people are very small and weak compared to euro so it evens out in the end.
@nasurdan That's false, I train in European fencing, it's a complicated and systematized art. Don't believe the Hollywood, European fighting men were not dumb brutes.
@nasurdan I train both medieval European and Classical Japanese swordsmanship. The European medieval systems are at least as sophisticated as their Japanese counterparts, and require just as much training. The katana is just a nice two-handed sabre, not better ot worse than other swords. The principles of swordsmanship are universal. It's all the same Art in the end, just variations on a theme. :)
@Kunstdesfechtens You are wrong. The Katana has the ability to split bullets out of the air and can cut a man in half so cleanly that he doesn't even know it until he goes to step forward. Don't you ever watch anime?
@aquaphone though they are well and truely capable of cutting a man from shoulder to groin diagonally, its not EASY, but its possible, and this is with a standard daito i.e uchigatana
@unknownIHIenitity a hard edged piece of steel vs a soft copper jacket and a core of lead. Yes a sword can split a bullet. So can a machete. The trick is hitting it.
where is the fighting?
Zedos777 1 week ago
IMO fencing guy isnt bouncy enough but they are equal.
Epicness456 1 week ago
yup let me say the guy who is weilding the katana doesnt fully understand the meaning of the way of the samurai sword 1: the edge is curved for cutting which means if this were a real fight the long sword would have lost a foot or two 2 the longsword was made for thrusting and hacking which means he should have used more force in his attack and not swingit it around like a french pointersword its not made for that. its a meideval sword of force not an gentleman sword that was used in the 1600ct
Blue138UEF 4 weeks ago
@Blue138UEF it's a Langes Messer, not a long sword - technique is quite different for this type of sword. And it's good, if you understood the way of the Samurai sword. Be proud !
zukuru 3 weeks ago 8
@Blue138UEF
A longsword is a very large two handed sword designed to breakup pike formations. This is not a longsword. Furthermore, the longsword was most decidedly not swung about with artless hacking. Longsword fighting techniques were every bit as sophisticated as any other type of sword. /watch?v=tsGU5KI1qJA
AdNeeb 3 weeks ago
@AdNeeb sorry if I am picky, but the longsword is a one and a half hand sword.
krullboll 1 day ago
@krullboll
Not it is not.
en[dot]wikipedia[dot]org/wiki/Longsword
AdNeeb 1 day ago
@AdNeeb "The term "hand-and-a-half sword" is modern (late 19th century).[6] During the first half of the 20th century, the term "bastard sword" was used regularly to refer to this type of sword" from wiki, and yes it is mostly used in 2 hands but can be used in one, thus being a hand and a half sword.
krullboll 1 day ago
@krullboll
No, the term hand and a half actually refers to a grip with length sufficient for a hand and a half, i.e. you grip the pommel. It doesn't matter though, you got the term from D&D or some fantasy game or other and now you think you are a medievalist.
AdNeeb 1 day ago
@AdNeeb their are 2 ways to grip a long sword with boat hands, both hands on the grip or one on the grip an one on the pummel.
krullboll 10 hours ago
@Blue138UEF wrong, it is shameful to attack the lower legs for a samurai
baalshin 2 weeks ago
@baalshin Correct, and for certain fencers it isn't allowed, I fence but use the discipline of a samurai. Neither are better, the man with the sword is the true factor, believe me when I say, I as a fencer, never underestimate a Kendo fighter.
Epicness456 1 week ago
@Epicness456 Well put.
guerrillaroach 6 days ago
@Blue138UEF
" let me say the guy who is weilding the katana doesnt fully understand the meaning of the way of the samurai sword "
Let me say in another view.
1. The katana user should parry the attack by the back of blade, not edge. The edge of katana is sharp but fragile.
2. After parry or have a good opportunity, katana user may dash forward for a swing
3. I'm not familiar with Langes Messer, but seems that it is not heavy. Katana user may redirect Langes Messer and create opportunity.
EdgeWarmantic 4 days ago
Bah. A true Samurai would never allow himself to be defeated... Even so, he would die before bowing to another type of weapon. The weapon is not the matter, however, it is the wielder that makes it deadly, and since no true Samurai remain, it is impossible to tell which weapon is superior. Stick to what you like, and be good with it. Otherwise, you will lose, and others will have the right to say you suck.
Expunge6667 1 month ago
@Expunge6667 It should be noted that no warrior normally allows themselves to be defeated. But quite obviously, they have no choice in the matter.
TheZacula 1 month ago
Ok, so I practice Kumdo (Kendo) enough to where I'm a black belt, so I'm not just asking this out of the blue (forgive my ignorance, I'm not judging one bit) but I'm wondering if you could tell me a little of what you're doing here? I've seen several videos of people in similar amounts of armor and similar style of aluminum weaponry sparring. Does this practice have a specific name or scoring or anything like that or are you guys just having fun. I enjoy it either way, I'm just curious.
Steakboy080 1 month ago
@Steakboy080
I think the specific name you're looking for are HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts). Some use aluminium weapons, other use nylon, some use blunted steel, some use all of the above. At this time there is no set rules, and there will perhaps never be any set rules. Most of the videos on YT is friendly sparring so scoring is not as important as learning.
So to answer: they are sparring, the name is HEMA, the scoring is not important and they are having fun. =)
gurkfisk89 1 month ago
@Steakboy080 we meet for sparring - 2 mins - no rules - no points. Choose a weapom, choose an opponent, agree to a level (Zero contact, light contact, full contact, brute force) and go.
zukuru 3 weeks ago
@ zukuru:
Sorry, that came on a little stronger than I wanted. And rest assured, I tried for years to get into classical rapier fencing and didn't. So some of your comment is right. Lets leave it at that, and I'll be more moderate with my comments next time. Promised.
@gurkfisk:
if you live in the US, contact J. Christoph Amberger, last adress in Baltimore, of the "Hammerterz Forum". He started off with Mensur before broadening his expertise onto other styles.
Otherwise, I could help.
LutzBrux1 1 month ago
@LutzBrux1 don't worry, Sir. Didn't take it as an offence. We're just following a different way .... Thank you for your thoughts.
zukuru 1 month ago
@zukuru
I'd suggest some speed training, otherwise you're both getting the idea of both weapons down pretty well. As for the shit talkers...true sword fighting never emulates closely choreographed work. People who think this is untrue have no idea, simply because long-arm melee is dead in most practical cases these days and thus has died with the bolt actions of WWII.
IcabodCrane 1 month ago
@LutzBrux1
Too bad I live in Sweden. Thanks anyway.
gurkfisk89 1 month ago
Sorry zukuru, I do not train with aluminum blades and I earned my right to talk. I did seven rapier fights with sharp blades and seconded 45 more. Nothing that can be filmed. But if interested, look up on YouTube "Hans Westmar Mensur", the first film titled "Mensur".
The film itself is ideologically very doubtful, but the fencing is very acurate.
So if you ask me what I do:
I look at the Schlägers on my wall, let my hairdresser wonder where I have the scars from and write comments to yoursalike.
LutzBrux1 1 month ago
@LutzBrux1 Touché !
°v°
zukuru 1 month ago
@LutzBrux1
Mensur looks very interesting. But I think I will stay with blunted longswords and the like. You can call me a coward byt I like bruises better then scars.
It would be nice to learn some basics about mensur fencing, the style looks so different from anything I've done.
gurkfisk89 1 month ago
@super0jetfromlu @RPK82SN @LuxBrux1 jgonzalezsarlet @all
tx for all your thoughts. The difference between you and us is:
we fight - with aluminum weapons, with minimum protection in a never practiced pairing.
you just talk - like keyboarwarriors use to do.
I would suggest to either upload your vids to underly your standpoint or to turn up to give us some experience (we meet every month) of your mastership.
In the meantime - I continue training and fighting - what will you do ?
°v°
zukuru 1 month ago
@zukuru Don't get me wrong - I think what you do is cool-never saw another cross match before.Of course , when you're training with weapons you've got to be careful. When I used to train some MA ,our knives were made of wood-and we still were being careful .That was exactly my point- that you've got to be carefull... And after that I just went offtopic :) .I hope someday I can dedicate myself again to the MA,but untill then I prefer to improve my mastery over the Void"and winwithoutfighting";)
RPK82SN 15 hours ago
@Super0jetFromLU:
Maybe I did not get the joke, but how do you want to kill or seriously injure somebody if not by landing a hit? But I think we both agree that the first time one blade touches the opponent, the bout should be over. That is what the katana and Langes Messer are about (as well as any other weapon that is not for sports fencing).
@ BecksderPhilosoph:
that is why they changed to rapier, then epee, because longsword gets them all... There is no weapon that gets them all in all...
LutzBrux1 1 month ago
@LutzBrux1 I agree with @Super0jetFromLU They may not be top-duelists, but if they like this and are doing it for fun, I see no wrong in it.Besides ,I don't think think they're trying to kill each other ... :)
RPK82SN 1 month ago
@LutzBrux1 But those aren't real swords and they have protective gear (Only in some places). My point was that its not about looking like Jedi doing all the "cool moves". I fight with plastic training swords from Cold Steel Swords and Knifes. They can seriously hurt people, but you just need to be careful. I've hit people but I was able to slow my self down a mila-second before the blow. You just need to smash the other person before they smash you CAREFULLY. I forgot that part. :P
Super0jetFromLU 2 weeks ago
really painful to watch..; as a fencing AND kendo practitioner, my eyes get hurt by watching the lack of technique of both guys... what the hell do they think they're doing...?
jgonzalezsarlet 1 month ago
@jgonzalezsarlet
"what the hell do they think they're doing...?"
Probably training. People are not top level in the beginning. Especially not in cross sparring.
gurkfisk89 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jgonzalezsarlet
"what the hell do they think they're doing...?"
Probably training. People are not top level in the beginning. Especially not in cross sparring.
gurkfisk89 1 month ago
LONG COMMENTS!
SazakuPoof 1 month ago
What are these two jesters doing? Langes Messer is not about dancing through wards, wagging around the tip of your blade like a lambs tail. And anyone using a katana would know better than prancing around several minutes and not landing one single decent hit.
Get a live guys, go back to your deskbound jobs and stop dreaming about swordmanship
LutzBrux1 1 month ago
@LutzBrux1 Its not about landing a hit, they only do that in Star Wars for show, its about KILLING THE PERSON WHO'S TRYING TO KILL YOU. If you fight me, my blade almost never clashes, its one of my ways of gettings the apponent. Yes, we know that they're not the best fighters in the world, but nobody is good on their first day of swordfighting. Give them a break and let them practice some.
Super0jetFromLU 1 month ago
@Super0jetFromLU As for the Star Wars : You might want to look at the duels at Star Wars from this angle: They are conducted in the contest of the Star Wars franchise's lore -a clash between two beings with precognitive and telekinetic powers ,each being attained certain level of mastery in the teachings of it's religion. Try to imagine you're dueling with someone who can read your mind and/or sees the future about 2 seconds ahead of you.How can you surprise such an opponent? Very hard best case
RPK82SN 1 month ago
@Super0jetFromLU And that's why the duels in the Science Fiction saga of Star wars are made this way- the opponents are clashing blades trying to exhaust each other, and land the final blow,oh, and since IN THEORY lightsaber cuts carbonize the wound, the tactics in the lightsaber duels of the movies exclude the element of bleeding the opponent down.That's right,.avoiding to clash blades is trying to avoid the possible situation that your "weapon hand"might be immobilized- leaving you exposed ...
RPK82SN 1 month ago
@Super0jetFromLU ... Which can be supplemented with quick attacks and withdrawals trying to bleed out your opponent (hitting blood vessel joints , maybe an artery,maybe trying to drain the your opponent's cranium blood vessels ,subsequentally blinding and killing him/her...) and getting out of your opponent's reach.The one who getts sloppy first loses...
RPK82SN 1 month ago
@RPK82SN Well anyone can always be careful. But nobody gets seriously injured if the fighters are near the same level of experience.
Super0jetFromLU 2 weeks ago
not only is that a cheap katana but that guy doesnt know how to handle it. like at all
alecinsel 1 month ago
European Longsword gets them all. End of story.
BecksderPhilosoph 1 month ago
@BecksderPhilosoph
Not at all. I to like the longsword more but it's by no mean better than any of these sword. You can do things with the messer and the katana that you can't do with a longsword.
gurkfisk89 1 month ago
@BecksderPhilosoph Except that the European method for sword-making was far inferior to the traditional Japanese method
22794 1 month ago
@22794
Why? Do you mean early sword-making that was almost identical with folding/twisting and core wrapping of steel with different carbon content to make it homogenous? Or are you talking about later sword-making with better steel that had a homogenous at the beginning that didn't need foldning/twisting?
Or are you perhaps talking about something different in terms of sword-making?
gurkfisk89 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The guy with the langes messer is failing becasue of his flourishment of the sword, therefor giving his movements and balance away. It's almost liek dropping it and screaming hit me.
MrChronoSan 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The guy with the langes messer is failing becasue of his flourishment of the sword, therefor giving his movements and balance away. It's almost liek dropping it and screaming hit me.
MrChronoSan 1 month ago
The guy with the langes messer is failing becasue of his flourishment of the sword, therefor giving his movements and balance away. It's almost liek dropping it and screaming hit me.
MrChronoSan 1 month ago
The Katana's extra length over the Langes Messer gives it the offensive edge, while the Langes Messer's shorter, broader blade was better for defense, but the trick was getting past the Katana's length to take the offensive.
Good job, Langes Messer duelist, good job.
Jensaarai1 1 month ago
First: The guy with the Katana is Using KENDO TECHNIQUES... That are made for competition and punctuation, and are not practical at all. If he Used Kenjutsu Techniques Instead.. it Would be a match between to fighting techniques.
Second: The other guy is really good. Well, Both guys are, but hes good using a fighting technique.
ClericTauren 1 month ago
@ClericTauren
And Kendo is a derivative a kenjutsu. The basics of the footwork, the engaging of the core (hara) and the fundemantals of how one parries, evades, moves, and attacks with a katana are all there (especially with "Kendo Kata") True, his footwork (like most people, even ..gasp, le real samurai) is not perfect and not representing a particular ryuha.
There's a lot of apparent fear, which I APPLAUD. Standing ovation for the attempted
realism in this vid.
ShoryukenThatHadoken 1 month ago
Lower level fencers, definitely
Akiralisk 1 month ago
aint Messer supposed to be longer? or is it perspective of a view?
kapelanZnew 1 month ago
this katana user is not used to japenese style
he just hold a sword that like katana
vulm300406 2 months ago
The katana needs to be far more aggressive here. A smaller sword weaving about against a larger two hander and the two hander is trying to pick fancy lil shots? He should be crashing in and using his pwer advantage. A heavyweight boxer doesnt get into a jabbing match with a quick lightweight, he rushes him
DamienNeverwinter 2 months ago
@DamienNeverwinter I think you haven't analyzed the vid correctly because the fighter with the european blade didn't wielded a longsword or such but a onehanded ''langes Messer'' which probavly isn't heavier than the Katana. But even with a longsword who isn't much heavier than a Katana either you wouldn't achieve much with crashing power. It's better to use it's agility and versatility added to it's greater reach.
Railriderchris 2 months ago
@Railriderchris Sorry perhaps I used the wrong term in 'crashing down' I meant being more aggressive and using more attacking manuveres to prevent the shorter blade from being able to work well. Really I meant -to pressure the onehander in order to keep him away at long range
DamienNeverwinter 2 months ago
@DamienNeverwinter, @railriderchris tx for your thoughts.
To set the scene into the right picture :
- the Katana Blade was 1 inch longer than the Messer
- both blades have the same weight
- the Messer fighter has a reach advantage - single handed
zukuru 2 months ago
@DamienNerwinter, @Railriderchris
So. crushing in results in direct death.
More agressive means less controlled - we fight with metal weapons wearing minimum gear. I don't think, that ancient fighters, used to kill - would rush into anything with weapons. Not the ones, who survived.
We don't have to fight to survive - we fight to test our skills and techniques.
°v°
zukuru 2 months ago
@zukuru You're right but i've seen many times that the more agressive fighter wins (i'm speaking of more or less equal experienced fighters) because it's hard to keep calm against a fierce attack. However we fight with foam wasters who have the weight of the real ones but who permit to fight on a way that would be dangerous with live blades.
I never wanted to criticize you, you're doing a great job in my opinion. Sorry if i made you misunderstand me, still much to learn in english ;-)
Railriderchris 2 months ago
@Railriderchris peace, my friend.
With foam you're right, I've seen the same.
The difference begins, when foam becomes aluminum and the
armour minimizes - the feedback and consequences you receive are different.
I prefer our way.
Its the way, we walk.
°v°
zukuru 2 months ago
@zukuru Don't you think the difference is that with foam you have less fear to hurt your partner? I feel that using live blades for techniques and refrained sparring is great, but that full sparring is much better with foam swords. Btw we don't use the super-light LARP swords but those instead: /watch?v=XOdYSGB92sY
Railriderchris 2 months ago
@Railriderchris this is what I meant - more foam, less fear.
Enjoy fighting, Sir.
zukuru 2 months ago
@zukuru What I meant was that as the katana appears to be less manuverable in finding openings, the way to compensate would be a powerful offence taking advantage of the stong two handed grip
DamienNeverwinter 2 months ago
Comment removed
xchargerOUx 2 months ago
@DamienNeverwinter Oh, i see! Well, in that case i'm with you, because i think too that to gain the initiative is very important in a fight. At least that's what i feel when i'm sparring, but of course it depends of the opponent..
Railriderchris 2 months ago
Not really how you're supposed to wield a katana, but if you're having fun, hey, good for you.
truebluekit 2 months ago
Good sportsmanship, remember nothing is on the line in these matches, except your honour.
pythag123 2 months ago
hier an denkanstoß: am dem 15 jahrhundert begannen die japaner gezielt ressourcenreiche küstengebiete wie die koreas oder auch shanghais zu überfallen, im versuch einer invasion. vor dem 2. wk war der letzte feldzug 1685 definitiv gescheitert. an der truppenstärke lag es nicht, aber an mangel an verpflegung, vernünftiger führung und auch qualitativer waffen, wie funde ergeben haben!
AuGeUNDoHr1 3 months ago
leute, wieso sollten östliche soldaten den westlichen überlegen gewesen sein? mir bekannte archäologen haben bestätigt, dass die historischen katanas, die auf schlachtfeldern gefunden wurden, qualitativ minderwertiges eisen aufwiesen, zu 86 %!! die heutigen katanas bestehen aus europäischem stahl, und nicht aus japanischem, den es schon seit 300 jahren quasi nicht mehr gibt hat das mal niemand hinterfragt?! seit dem 14. jahrhundert hatten die japaner ressourcenprobleme, historisch erwiesen!
AuGeUNDoHr1 3 months ago
I have done historical fencing with a longsword, katana, and rapier, and I personally find the katana superior for me. Again, that's a personal thing. As for the langes messer...I dunno, that guy, while doing all his fancy arm changes, I could've cut clean across for a good contact as he was going. I understand a value of drawing in an opponent, but the guy with the langes messer seemed gratuitous. Way too much. And the person with the katana seemed kind of...fidgity. But that's just me.
KingMakerRook 3 months ago
@KingMakerRook Because you're a weeaboo and you know it...Japanese sword techniques suck as you can see in many "katana versus" video. Mainly because most of their professional warfare training didn't get pass down or mostly likely forgotten because of the "peaceful era". Most of the katana technique you see nowadays are from lords during "peace era" use to practice for mere sport NOT for combat. As you can clearly see how INEFFICIENT katana tech is in dual.
akira357 3 months ago
@akira357 First, mate, what is a weeaboo? Second, and I am not trying to be insulting or condescending, but the Katana being an inefficient weapon in one on one combat? I'm sorry, but calling a single weapon inefficient when there is such a strong history to it is tantamount to arrogance. With this one fight as basis, weapons don't decide a duel. Fighters do. And the Katana being bad? Hell no. Musashi alone, with a Katana or a side Wakizashi as well, won over sixty duels. A Bad sword?
KingMakerRook 3 months ago
@KingMakerRook stop getting you pants in a bunch weeaboo...In my previous post I talked about Katana technique, so just re-read it carefully and respond. As for katana being an amazing weapon, go search this up on youtube "Welt der Wunder - Katana vs. Schwert - Teil 2 " skipped to 5:59 and BEHOLD!
akira357 3 months ago
@akira357 First, I still have no idea what your made up word means.
Second, your example proves one thing and one thing only: any man who is stupid enough to slash a sword edge-on-edge that is strapped to a table will meet with disaster. What does this prove in way of tecnique? Nothing at all. As so many people have said, the sword doesn't make the duel. The fighter does. As for whether or not the katana is a good weapon, we have different opinions. Aguing past that is pointless, mate.
KingMakerRook 3 months ago
@KingMakerRook It doesn't hurt to go and search up the word "weeaboo". And I can see that it is very useless to discuss something with a person like you. Once again, you did not pay any attention to my post as you keep on MISSING the point! Your HUGE internet-ego shrouded over your senses. One more time, let me try and summarize what I had said. Japanese sword-technique suck, Bokken etc. lost every duel. Video I sent you, prove that katana IS NOT as efficient as long sword.
akira357 3 months ago
@KingMakerRook @akira357
I never thought I'd actually chime in to defend the katana of all things, but the katana is actually a decent sword. Not amazing, mind you, but it's pretty good. It wouldn't have seen such widespread use if it didn't have SOME degree of effectiveness.
(Keep in mind that Germanic nations had an equivalent in the Grossemesser as well.)
No, it's not the sword, or its design; it's how people were taught to use it in more recent times that is the problem... Blame the ryu.
HipposHateWater 1 month ago 8
@HipposHateWater I agree with you to some extent - some Katana of good quality have been proven to stab through plate armour but even at the time of greatest use the sword - either Katana or Messer or longsword was a side arm - the bow,Poleaxe or Yari halbard was a much more important weapon - The English named themselves after the poleaxe before the invasion of Britain - only the Romans used the sword as the principle weapon in a systematic way & as at Teutorburg they where defeated by clubs!
infokemp 3 weeks ago
@HipposHateWater Continued - as you said it is down to the person using the weapon.
I would direct you to a favourited video on MEMAG called samurai work shop by a channel by the same name - the techniques are similar to Talhoffer practical & empirical using all parts of the Katana - there is none of the mystical nonsense (that plagued most martial arts before MMA came along) the school. Musashi wrote the 5 rings & did many duels to prove that practical training beats mysticism his club remains
infokemp 3 weeks ago
since neither had intent to kill the other testing the two martial arts in this manner wont answer any questions and since i don't see any two people out there who know both martial arts willing to kill each other to settle this i don't see the point of this other then some fun hitting each other with sword like objects
darkhopelesslover 3 months ago
seid ihr ein Verein? und wenn ja wo seid ihr?
rasafin 3 months ago
@rasafin wir treffen uns einmal im Monat zum sparren - in Wiesbaden.
zukuru 3 months ago
uhmm... looks f-ing dangerous. what if you accidently chop the other guy in the leg?
xzu 4 months ago
@xzu
They use blunted sword simulators. So It would probably be nothing worse then maybe a bruise.
gurkfisk89 4 months ago
@gurkfisk89 dude,these swords(Katana) are probably the same as the western ones regarding construction.They can be made EASILLY by stock removal and fully hardened at the local lawn mower blade maker or spring maker,then a differential temper put on yourself so it doesnt snap.The edges are usually around 2 or 3mm thick but a nasty pressure cut can still be achieved so care needs to be taken.
The guy with the katana looks like he only knows very basic katana and good fencing technique
jadekayak01 3 months ago
@jadekayak01
I don't know what to say. I agree that you can still get hurt by this blades and you have to take some care but I think that you agree that with a 2-3 mm thick edge you will not chop someones leg of. Did all that "how you can make a sword simulator" have anything to do with my comment?
gurkfisk89 3 months ago
Nice video (as are your other stuff). are those alu blades? You should try out some steel blades, Albion if you can afford. We use steel exclusively, but with coach fencing jackets to give more protection, we still keep it minimal however to keep us alert. I think the steel blades are much more alive and more fun to spar with. Where are you guys from?
TheDude8491 4 months ago
I like European swords but I think katana should win this one because using two arms are stronger than one arm and also cuts are faster although shorter travel. But perhaps the footwork would have to be really good which means timing. Or maybe not. = )
geniegogo 5 months ago
this is a much more fair matchup than longsword vs katana.
jarlragnar 6 months ago
Its nice to finally see an attempt to fight with metal swords. Wood is simply not the same when it comes to size and weight. Still its sad that you are unable to do a real thrust cause i have yet seen no protection which could deal with it.
CoIdHeat 6 months ago
katanas are made by 3,000-5,000 folds, im pretty sure the other piece of metal is made of 5-6 folds, i wonder why the katana didnt just break the piece of metal in half
pleaseandthankyou24 6 months ago
@pleaseandthankyou24 Your attempt appears to me mostly based on fiction. You make it seem as if a medieval european sword would meet a katana, the katana would instantly break it in a half, in total disregard that european swords had their own history of development far over a thousand years and had to deal with much harder armor on the battlefield. Already in the antique there were Seax or late roman blades, who were equal to japanese blades in structure and durability.
CoIdHeat 6 months ago
@pleaseandthankyou24 Katanas were made from such a technique on account of Japanese not having the luxury of blast furnace. The folding is designed to give a higher quality steel by elimination of carbon and other pollutants, which is also what a blast furnace does. Many ancient, Indian & European, societies used the same method but as technology moved on so did the techniques. There are no account of Katanas breaking through any other period swords - unless you believe tv-shopping channel
fp470 5 months ago
i don't really get it why people become butthurt over sparring videos with retarded comment like "A REAL SAMURAI WOULD KILL YOU". Its like people training in different styles of martial arts, to be better prepared in any condition, not just under one set of rules.
Temujin4815 7 months ago
Der Vorteil am Langen Messer geg. dem Katan ist ja auch folgender: 1) Man kann stechen, 2) Man kann rückhand schlagen
AuGeUNDoHr1 7 months ago
@AuGeUNDoHr1 Also stechen kannst du mit einem Katana genauso. Rückhand schlagen mag nicht möglich sein, das wird aber wieder ausgeglichen durch die bessere Schneidefähigkeit.
CoIdHeat 6 months ago
@AuGeUNDoHr1 also die katanas die ich kenne haben etwa 2 cm rückschlagkante die in eine spitze übergeht.... ich glaube nicht, dass das zum töten reicht, man müsste wirklich perfekt die tödlichen punkte treffen, was schwierig ist bei einem guten gegner
AuGeUNDoHr1 6 months ago
It would be a nice comparison if the fighter with the katana here actually knew iaijustsu.
I'm currently studying iaijutsu, with emphasis on iaido (form & kata, a small difference exists), but I also spent a few years learning some German langschwert from an ARMA instructor (I never joined ARMA). We studied through Ringeck's fechtbuch of the Liechtenauer school and Meyer's fechtbuch too. Both weapons are deadly, but against a *lightly-armored or unarmored* opponent I would prefer a katana.
TheSeraphym 8 months ago
@TheSeraphym
Or Kendo or something to get the right spirit!
DerWULT 8 months ago
I believe a better 1 on 1 could be employed with a two-handed version of a longer messer vs. a katana.
axer01 9 months ago
that look dangerous to fight without lot protection
warzyxx 9 months ago
i like the langes messer better..but the blade matters little..the swordsman is the biggest factor in a blade fight..and in this case the fighter with the msser looked like the better swordsman
mouthforwar17 9 months ago
I wouldve cut your wrist off in the first 30secs, of this youd be done for buddy. weak skillz but room for growth.
rvking2005 9 months ago
au das arme katana... ich glaub ich hab gesehen, wie er mit der schneide pariert hat... das hat bestimmt ne ordentliche kerbe hinterlasssen^^ ich liebe meine 3 katanas über alles^^ leider sind sie als ausstellungswaffen stumpf^^
1291nitro 10 months ago
hell boring!
vilma8989 10 months ago
@KissakiSan go away I already got hassled for that comment.So stfu and go away.
Makemesad97 10 months ago
nehmt ihr auch teil an turnieren der etf hamburg?
malhensreturn 11 months ago
Is that really how the Long Sword was used, that weaving in and out pattern, like a figure 8?
matthias66 11 months ago
@matthias66
It's not a longsword it's a messer. I don't know much about messer fighting so I hope someone with more knowledge of the art can give you a better answer. What I can do is commenting on longsword use. Some people let the sword flow from guard to guard almost all the time while other stay more stationary. It's different interpretations of the manuals. It's stated that you never stand still wich can be interpretated as you should move around and never stand in one guard...
gurkfisk89 11 months ago
@matthias66
But the sources also tell you that every guard protect some parts of your body and expose other parts. This let you know where your opponent probably will try to strike next. So by this it's wise to stand in one guard. Also the transition from one guard to an other give your opponent an opportunity to strike whithout you being well protected.
You also have techniques like "das Redel" (the wheel) where you move the tip of the sword in a circular motion so that the opponent...
gurkfisk89 11 months ago
@matthias66
don't see where the next cut or thrust is comming from as easy.
I think that weaving your weapon around is a valid thing to do, but it's not the only thing you can do. I see it like different styles like in boxing, there is inside fighters and outside fighters. None of these are /the right way to box/ but some prefer one style over the other. And if you want to be really good it's best to be able to switch between the two.
gurkfisk89 11 months ago
@gurkfisk89 Ok, that makes sense to me. I used to do boxing for 2 years, so I certainly get the analogy, it is a style- like you stated inside fighter, outside fighter, counter-puncher, boxer, etc.
Another question that comes to mind is why do you refer to it as a "long knife" oder auf Deutsch "Langes Messer". It certainly looks to be the length of a sword, is there a particularly distinction between a long knife or sword (like length), or is the Langes Messer a different type of sword?
matthias66 11 months ago
@matthias66
A term langes Messer is used by the medieval masters to describe the weapon. I think that the main difference is that a messer only have one slightly curved edge. There is also some difference in the construction of the hilt, pommel and guard. There is also some messers that are really long like the kriegmesser which is a two handed weapon that resemble a katana with a crossguard.
gurkfisk89 11 months ago
@gurkfisk89 Sword: Double edge, everyone exept nobles and men at arms where banned from using them.
Lange Messer: Only one edge, technically not a sword so everyone could use one. Thats the main difference the europeans made between the two.
BadMartini 11 months ago
is it a kodachi or somethung?
ZecaPinto1 11 months ago
@ZecaPinto1
sorry my bad english
ZecaPinto1 11 months ago
that katana seems to be too short
ZecaPinto1 1 year ago
@SethMan91 look at trainingsschwerterdotde.
zukuru 1 year ago
Langes Messer win
manwe1 1 year ago
I hope you guys are careful with those. You definitely would get hurt.
jung567 1 year ago
@jung567 No shit.
Jimbe2614 1 year ago
Zukuru umm dude the katana user should win instanly no contest becase of the fact a Technique call " one with the wind" a simple forward jab hits in the chest also the smaller sword may hit close but a quick samurai katana user shoulmove or kick the opponents leg so thats all i have to say.
Makemesad97 1 year ago
@Makemesad97 A simple quarter-rotation of the torso coupled with a strong block renders that particular move obsolete (pushing it aside), and opens the katana user (who will, after your described move be VERY overextended) to a wonderful little up-and-over slice across the neck.
Learn your swordfighting from instructors, not manga.
RomanovBuck 1 year ago
@RomanovBuck Its also a matter of quickness. If its fast enough it will cut.
Makemesad97 1 year ago
@Makemesad97
I think you are simplifying swordfights far too much. You could as well say that the messer fighter would win by just throwing the messer at the katana wielders face...
If you think that your "one with the wind" technique (or any other technique for that matter) is unbeatable than I don't know what to say.
gurkfisk89 1 year ago
@gurkfisk89 I have nothing to say consedering you misunderstand.
Makemesad97 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Makemesad97 A simple quarter-rotation of the torso coupled with a strong block renders that particular move obsolete (pushing it aside), and opens the katana user (who will, after your described move be VERY overextended) to a wonderful little up-and-over slice across the neck.
Learn your swordfighting from instructors, not manga.
RomanovBuck 1 year ago
@Makemesad97 what you say has no sense, how can you be sure of that? tne katana-user would surely win theorically?...i don't think so, and stop the stupid thinking about japanese swords better than europeans, it has no sense for a real fight
Sarva07 1 year ago
@Sarva07 You Probably some european person who is MR.Nation pride so yea it comes down to what the guy:SankeEngelskrieger said weapon mastery.
Makemesad97 1 year ago
@Makemesad97 totally misunderstood...I'm Italian and I sincerely can't love my country...i don't like European and USA's pride, and most of all I really love japanese culture and samurai...for these reasons I hate when people simplify about this subject. a Kendoka, for example, would not be probably able to defeat any other type of swordman in a real fight...doing only kata and codified moves is useless, and this is what most katana users do thinking their weapon to be invincible!
Sarva07 1 year ago 2
@Sarva07 It's a matter of weapon mastery. Thats what I shall leave it at.
Makemesad97 1 year ago
@Makemesad97 Here is something i've heard from every MA-teacher i've visited in one way or another: TO be a good fighter you need good timing, balance and the ability to shift it right and a feeling for distance. All of them considered technique to be the least determining factor.
And from personal experience i can say, the simpler the technique, the more likely you can actually use it for fighting. Some mystic secret technique isn't going to win you anything.
BadMartini 1 year ago 14
@BadMartini
Very much correct. In fact, fighting teachers in medieval times actually taught a very small amount of different techniques to their students in the beginning, and were much more concerned with how and when to apply them. Timing, positioning, tempo and many other things were considered much more essential than the prettiest strike possible. Even if you knew the perfect cut, it wouldn't be of much use if your opponent's shoddy blow hacked your arm off first, for example.
Nakedspaceman1 11 months ago
@BadMartini god damm thats spot on regarding fighting-unarmed and armed timming is the key to victory
jadekayak01 3 months ago
@Makemesad97
...it's not about the hammer. It's about how you work with it.
And a skilled fighter, whatever he's wielding, let it be a hammer, an axe, a falchion, a katana, let it be two wakizashis or a scimitar, or even a mace, could beat a katana fighter.
Your probably about 13 and have no experience with a real katana or any other weapon. I saw fighters with katanas being beaten up by two normal knifes with about 20cm length. It's about how good yourained with ur weapon of choice.
SankeEngelskrieger 1 year ago 2
@SankeEngelskrieger Thats true....I have slight expierence and me and one of my friends "spar" He prefers dual kinves I prefer the Katana. So its truly about the user of the weapon. Such as the ....I forgot the situaition but I think it was Gigantic claymores vs short swords and the quick short sword won. so yes it is a 50 % senario type thing..
Makemesad97 1 year ago
Hm...die Frau mit dem Katana benutzt das Katana aber eher wie einen Bidhänder ( heißt das so?). Interessant wäre wirklich ein Vergleich mit jemanden der den jap. Kampfstil beeherrscht.
dragono7 1 year ago
SOUL CALIBUR 4!!!!!!!
Bobbladeblade 1 year ago
Yeah, more like playing....
Saitohkiyohiru 1 year ago
Undecisive spirits...
Saitohkiyohiru 1 year ago
@Saitohkiyohiru
They're not showing off spirit, just fighting.
PG46RR 1 year ago
Excellent match both of you! This was great, thank you so much for posting it up.
AnGobh 1 year ago
An additional comment on grappling: I want to point out that grappling just makes sense with the langes messer and its actually one of the best advantages of the weapon over the katana.
The katana ideally requires both hands to use to be most effective. Once the katana has committed to a slash and the messer (hopefully) parries, the messer wielder can quickly close the distance, bind the opponents wrists and finish him off.
Don't underestimate the use of your free hand.
LuciusTheFair 1 year ago 2
I watch you both fight and you have quite a bit of potential that isn't being realized.
Messer fencer should employ more grappling. He does a little bit at the end but there are numerous cases where grappling at the katana wielders wrists when he was extended in a failed attack would end the fight (like around 1:30).
Also, as a general comment, both "fighters" lack aggression or courage. None of the attacks have any power or commitment behind them and they all look weak. Be brave fellows!
LuciusTheFair 1 year ago
@LuciusTheFair
Sharp weapons kill people.
lynth 1 year ago
@lynth
Of course they do, but it was Sigmund Ringeck who said that fencing is not for the feint-hearted.
LuciusTheFair 1 year ago
I think that the longsword/broadsword, is faster, but the katana more controlled since you're using both hands...
But then again it all comes down to who is using it...
solitajre222 1 year ago
@solitajre222 Katana is faster and strong, but take a lot more trainning to use. Long sword and broad sword easier to mass produce, a lot easier to use. Katana has the edge over other swords, but the japanese people are very small and weak compared to euro so it evens out in the end.
nasurdan 1 year ago
@nasurdan That's false, I train in European fencing, it's a complicated and systematized art. Don't believe the Hollywood, European fighting men were not dumb brutes.
Ranziel1 1 year ago
@nasurdan I train both medieval European and Classical Japanese swordsmanship. The European medieval systems are at least as sophisticated as their Japanese counterparts, and require just as much training. The katana is just a nice two-handed sabre, not better ot worse than other swords. The principles of swordsmanship are universal. It's all the same Art in the end, just variations on a theme. :)
Kunstdesfechtens 1 year ago 27
@Kunstdesfechtens You are wrong. The Katana has the ability to split bullets out of the air and can cut a man in half so cleanly that he doesn't even know it until he goes to step forward. Don't you ever watch anime?
aquaphone 5 months ago 50
@aquaphone Ha! You had me going for half a second untill I read the last sentence. Nice one. I need more coffee before going to YT in the morning.
Kunstdesfechtens 5 months ago 2
@aquaphone : I hope you being sarcastic, what not with the "don't you ever watch anime" part.
It's sometimes hard to tell with typed words.
Halofreakanoid 3 months ago
@aquaphone though they are well and truely capable of cutting a man from shoulder to groin diagonally, its not EASY, but its possible, and this is with a standard daito i.e uchigatana
elgostine 2 months ago
@aquaphone I cant tell if you're serious or not.
Zaxxarius 2 months ago
@aquaphone i hope that is sarcasm
mouthforwar17 2 months ago
@aquaphone i hope that is sarcasm
mouthforwar17 2 months ago
@aquaphone i hope that is sarcasm
mouthforwar17 2 months ago
Comment removed
xchargerOUx 2 months ago
@aquaphone true there is a video that shows the katana splitting the bullet in half
tell them there wrong
unknownIHIenitity 1 month ago
@unknownIHIenitity
There is also a video that shows that a butter knife can split a bullet in half.
/watch?v=3O-YKzdTT3A
gurkfisk89 1 month ago
@unknownIHIenitity a hard edged piece of steel vs a soft copper jacket and a core of lead. Yes a sword can split a bullet. So can a machete. The trick is hitting it.
OspreyKnight 1 month ago
@aquaphone actually thats not all too far off from the truth.... the police is key though!
vampire847 1 month ago