me too the froont of the train firts wagon window looks like an people mover found in airports shoud make an windows on cab doors to look foward an make these trais fun to ttravel
@ivcbetamax Believe it or not, the transit workers union refused to allow that, citing that the operators needed more privacy and space. Also, it's helpful when the platform is on the opposite side, the operator can just walk to the other window to look out the mirror.
@northlanderdude When we get a subway we might get real subway trains. But since we have a metro, they have their own unique style. These metro cars are between 40-50 years old, and they still run great. Unlike cities such as Toronto and New York that need to replace their cars every 20 years or so. Montreal metro trains operate faster than any other city, and since they run on rubber tires, they are much quieter, can climb steeper hills, and can stop faster incase of emergency.
@northlanderdude It's a French word, but even Mexico has a subway. I think it might refer to a train that stays underground and uses rubber tires. The new cars that Montreal ordered don't look like a subway or a metro, to me, they look more like a monorail in the pictures.
@northlanderdude LOL, Just for fun I decided to Google what the difference was between the two, and it's actually different for each person, subway is supposed to mean a train that travels underground only, yet metro can be any method of transit, and not necessarily a form of rail transportation.
@MrPingypop12 The Jeumont doesn't have to wait for all of the motors to turn on and off to build up speed, it generates a different type of traction power and starts pulling right away. There's a bit of fighting between the other cars attached though since the Jeumont wants to take control of the train, and it's being held back for the attached cars that want to start up slowly.
@MrPingypop12 Yup,like Mystic said,the normal MR63 needs more motors,but the Jeumont starts going right away,that explains why the Jeumont does when it starts to leave a station: OOOAAAAAOOOOOOOUIIIIIIIIIIII.And my mom told me it uses a lot of electricity.That also explain the sound: OOOOOOOOOOAAAAOOOOIIIIIIIII.
@fireblaze82 The Montreal metro has several power stations that could probably power an entire town! But it certainly is better for the environment than using fossil fuels to power these trains. Plus electricity in Quebec is cheap, and less pollutant compared to other provinces and countries.
@MysticMTL The trains on the green line,when the train starts to leave,it bounces a little,and it takes off.But the Jeumonts on the Orange and Blue line take off right away without bouncing.
@fireblaze82 Right. The bouncing and tugging is the motor turning itself on and off so that it doesn't rip itself apart when starting up. The Jeumonts don't usually go on the Orange line anymore. And lately the two remaining 3 car sets have been combined together. The last 3 cars were retired and used for parts to keep the other 6 cars in service.
@MrPingypop12 Yes, 2 out of the 3 Jeumont elements are in service. 041 & 042 are in service, 043 was removed from service when they ran out of parts for it. So they stripped it for useful pieces to keep the other two elements in service.
@MrPingypop12 I don't think an operator would know where they were. There were about 3 or 4 trains that were involved in accidents and fires in the early 1970's, so I assume those are the ones.
@MrPingypop12 Same reason, but you notice at Angrignon the most, because the speed control sensors aren't generally located in curves, so when your train is told to go from 45mph to 30mph to 15mph to 30mph to 10mph it makes for a very rough ride. A lot of operators drive this section in manual to make for a more comfortable ride. Like in computers, a train is given a command: Yes or No. So it either is set to go faster to specific speed, or slower to a specific speed, full power not gradual.
@MrPingypop12 There is a very sharp turn and incline entering into Angrignon, and there is a chance that an employee might be crossing the tracks. It also helps to make sure the brakes are functioning properly, since the end of the track is just after the station. (If the driver falls asleep, really can't happen, but who knows).
I got into the feeling of it when I first rode a loud Jeumont. The first times, they were quiet. I actually rode element 42 a while back, and it was as loud as in this video, if not louder!
@NovaBUSFan Listen closely just before the train slows down entering Angrignon. The Jeumont has to pull at full power up the hill and the sound it makes is so loud the sound almost distorts! But it operates so perfectly, and once the hill climb is finished, the motor winds down and shows up again when needed. So must work must have been done to make this train cooperate with the other two incompatible elements attached.
I agree. They did a great job! Its so unfortunate to know that by the beginning of the next decade, they will be all but gone, except maybe for element 001, which the Canadian National Rail Museum (Exporail) is supposed to buy!
@NovaBUSFan That's not necessarily true. The STM has planned on keeping atleast 7 full MR63 train sets to provide extra backup service, or to use in special events. And Expo-Rail will have atleast one set, perhaps only 3 cars though, and there will be a full 9 car element parked at Ile-Ste-Helene! So they won't all be gone, and even if they do get retired, several transit agencies around the world have already demonstrated interest, since they have trains that date back to the 2nd world war!
@MysticMTL Is that a fact that STM will display a full 9 car parked on Ile Sat-Helene!! Where though? Plus thanks for posting these awesome metro/bus clips!!
@mtlnash76 The STM said a set of original MR63 cars, though I don't recall if they said a set of 3 or all 9 cars. And how they're going to do that is anybody's guess. I assume they'll load each car up on a flatbed and bring it across the Jacques Cartier bridge. Also, no problem about the videos, I enjoy it! :)
lol I m SUCH a Metro de Montreal "junkie" :P ... it's like crack to me haha.. I can certainly understand your obsession with making videos of the metro, MysticMTL :-D
@ammarios The sights, the sounds and even the smells of the metro are just so addictive and keep calling me to come back. And the new metro cars will have wooden brake shoes installed instead of steel, so the smells of the metro should be the same in the future as well!
I really love the sound of this Jeumont prototype train, and it's always a joy to ride on it, especially when the motor is forcing a bit, so the sound is even louder!
If ANYONE has them, you have NO IDEA how happy you would make me if you could somehow either send them to me...etc...
I just LOVE our metro, and it would give me GREAT pleasure to be able to hear them on demand..especially since the 1st station and terminus announcements for each line and the station announcements themselves for each line are said at different pitches and speeds..they are all unique and to me, are a trademark of the most wonderful city on this planet :-D
Also, I am originally from Montreal, but currently live in Ontario.. I miss my beloved city SO much..and for some reason, just like some people say certain sights and smells remind them of home, for me, the Station d'metro announcements ALWAYS make me feel warm and closer to home and homesick..I AM DYING to find ALL the train station announcements and the "La STM vous souhaite la bienvenue a bord..prochaine station"..AND" Terminus, merci d'avoir voyage avev la STM..bonne soiree" for ALL lines
I've noticed something kinda funny... on the ligne orange, when she says the "La STM vous-souhaite la bienvenue a bord..prochaine station ..." she says it just like she does in this video, happy and cheerful and pretty-sounding..whereas on the ligne verte, they recorded her at a lower pitch and speaking slower, and it almost sounds like she's having a bad day and has "just-woke-up" morning-voice..very appropriate when getting on at Angrignon early in the morning...
How rude!! lol this time after saying the "terminus, merci d'avoir voyage avec la STM".. she didn't say "bonne journee/soiree".. lol maybe she was cranky :P
btw i found a VERY clear video with "La STM vous-souhaite la bienvenue a bord, prochaine station.." .. just search for "montreal subway Honoré-Beaugrand à Cadillac station" (uploaded by picalsta) - the message starts at 0:12..
Another lovely one is "Judith Ouimet- Berri-UQAM" by ElmerCat....just lovely
I love our metro's. That sound makes them original. Im 15 now and I used to take them often to go to my grandmother's house when I was younger. By the way that 6th note I heard it on another metro train in montreal. It wasnt #81-852. But do u know when the first of the new metro's is gonna roll?
@HELLOCHEWY Hopefully they'll have a similar sound as this train. It would be hard to adjust to a sound that has been engraved into our minds all our lives. Jeumont 4 Life :)
@HELLOCHEWY If it weren't for this train, then the trains on the Orange Line would never have existed the way that we know, and the funny commercial with il fait beau dans l'metro would never had existed either. It's all thanks to this one train! I really hope that they keep this one running for a long time to come!
@MrPingypop12 They can no longer do that, since 2002. The entire set was never converted to automatic control, and wasn't used very often. 80-040 as well as 81-579 and 81-580 were pulled from service since they couldn't find enough parts to rebuild them like they did with the the 041 and 042 elements. They kept them parked for years in the tunnel waiting to couple the train with a compatible fit, but the time never arrived. Now 81-579 is used as a restaurant for the Just For Laughs Festival.
I notice in your information comment that there is a 6th note at the end. In fact, I heard, and I checked myself, what happens is that you hear the first 4 notes then the 5th one will stay on until the train is stopped at the next station. I verified it between Berri-UQAM and Beaudry recently where you go slowly because of renovations, and the 5th note never disappeared and played from Berri to Beaudry. We just don't hear it everytime because the noise of the train covers the frequencies.
@Elementodi Ah, yes, normally the Jeumont's have 5 notes (one more than the MR73's), but in this case there was a 6th note, that's possibly not detected in the video, but it's the note that resonates just before the 1st note and right after the last note when the train has stopped. It must have been a defect, since it no longer makes that extra note, right near that new grinding sound is where it makes up the 6th mysterious sound. This was the loudest I've ever experienced the Jeumont as well!
@hondarox6775 There are a few repair and maintenance shops scattered across the island. The main one for the MR63 (Green and Yellow line Trains) is at Honore-Beaugrand, where the track splits off into 12 with several hidden corridors that branch out to several blocks long. The maintenance shop for the MR73 (Orange and Blue Line trains) is located at Henri-Bourassa. And finally the most important repair shop is at Youville, it's above ground, outside and inside! Visit my site to see photos of it!
Hmmm.. I thought that as well.. Not sure how comfortable that is having your arm up like that for long periods of time. Perhaps it's better if you were to lets say get off at the next station if you're bugged about my filming. Oh wait, he did get off.. lol.
Glad you enjoyed the video. About 2 years ago you would have been able to find this train on the Orange line because they were renovating the MR73 trains, but now they solved that problem by putting the older MR63s (like this one) on the Yellow line so there are now more trains available on the Orange line.
me too the froont of the train firts wagon window looks like an people mover found in airports shoud make an windows on cab doors to look foward an make these trais fun to ttravel
ivcbetamax 1 month ago
@ivcbetamax Believe it or not, the transit workers union refused to allow that, citing that the operators needed more privacy and space. Also, it's helpful when the platform is on the opposite side, the operator can just walk to the other window to look out the mirror.
MysticMTL 1 month ago
they have those same butt ugly trains in Paris france, places in mexico have them too !
when will Montreal get real subway trains like Toronto and New York ??
northlanderdude 1 month ago
@northlanderdude When we get a subway we might get real subway trains. But since we have a metro, they have their own unique style. These metro cars are between 40-50 years old, and they still run great. Unlike cities such as Toronto and New York that need to replace their cars every 20 years or so. Montreal metro trains operate faster than any other city, and since they run on rubber tires, they are much quieter, can climb steeper hills, and can stop faster incase of emergency.
MysticMTL 1 month ago
@MysticMTL right, isn't metro french for subway ?
Toronto and New York get new subway cars every 40 years.
I rode all 3 systems, and for me the Montreal subway - doesn't have that subway feel to it for the reason like you said - the "rubber tires" !
northlanderdude 1 month ago
@northlanderdude It's a French word, but even Mexico has a subway. I think it might refer to a train that stays underground and uses rubber tires. The new cars that Montreal ordered don't look like a subway or a metro, to me, they look more like a monorail in the pictures.
MysticMTL 1 month ago
@MysticMTL actually, now that I remember - Subway is short for Subterrainian Railway
I'd like to see pictures of the new trains for the Montreal subway.
northlanderdude 1 month ago
@northlanderdude LOL, Just for fun I decided to Google what the difference was between the two, and it's actually different for each person, subway is supposed to mean a train that travels underground only, yet metro can be any method of transit, and not necessarily a form of rail transportation.
MysticMTL 1 month ago
@MysticMTL that's what I said about subway - short for subterrainian railway or lamans term (underground)
northlanderdude 1 month ago
it sounds like the ICTS when it stops...
GordonFreemanD40 2 months ago
I love these types of wagons :)
MarvelousDavid 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
On October 27 2011, the STM remplace the jeumont motor with the MR-73's motor on the 80-042.
RIP jeumont motor :'(
uchihasurvival 4 months ago
Is it me or the jeumont acceleration is faster than the normal MR63's?
MrPingypop12 9 months ago
@MrPingypop12 The Jeumont doesn't have to wait for all of the motors to turn on and off to build up speed, it generates a different type of traction power and starts pulling right away. There's a bit of fighting between the other cars attached though since the Jeumont wants to take control of the train, and it's being held back for the attached cars that want to start up slowly.
MysticMTL 9 months ago
@MrPingypop12 Yup,like Mystic said,the normal MR63 needs more motors,but the Jeumont starts going right away,that explains why the Jeumont does when it starts to leave a station: OOOAAAAAOOOOOOOUIIIIIIIIIIII.And my mom told me it uses a lot of electricity.That also explain the sound: OOOOOOOOOOAAAAOOOOIIIIIIIII.
fireblaze82 3 months ago
@fireblaze82 The Montreal metro has several power stations that could probably power an entire town! But it certainly is better for the environment than using fossil fuels to power these trains. Plus electricity in Quebec is cheap, and less pollutant compared to other provinces and countries.
MysticMTL 3 months ago
@MysticMTL The trains on the green line,when the train starts to leave,it bounces a little,and it takes off.But the Jeumonts on the Orange and Blue line take off right away without bouncing.
fireblaze82 3 months ago
@fireblaze82 Right. The bouncing and tugging is the motor turning itself on and off so that it doesn't rip itself apart when starting up. The Jeumonts don't usually go on the Orange line anymore. And lately the two remaining 3 car sets have been combined together. The last 3 cars were retired and used for parts to keep the other 6 cars in service.
MysticMTL 3 months ago
@MysticMTL I didn't notice that,the other day I was on the orange line.And a Jeumont train came to the station.
fireblaze82 3 months ago
Idk but on a site it says about the jeumonts and its says that they are in service
MrPingypop12 9 months ago
@MrPingypop12 Yes, 2 out of the 3 Jeumont elements are in service. 041 & 042 are in service, 043 was removed from service when they ran out of parts for it. So they stripped it for useful pieces to keep the other two elements in service.
MysticMTL 9 months ago
@MysticMTL Wait 43 or 40?
MrPingypop12 9 months ago
@MysticMTL No i was talking about the element 10 11 and 12 on a site it says they are still in service
MrPingypop12 9 months ago
@MrPingypop12 Ok, but you mentioned the Jeumont trains, and those ones are 040, 041 and 042.
MysticMTL 9 months ago
@MysticMTL Element 10 11 and 12 are Jeumonts too
MrPingypop12 9 months ago
@MysticMTL The 6th note appears when the train accelerates too.
coolsebas14 7 months ago
Btw did u have any info about the Element 10 11 and 12? no one ever caugh one
MrPingypop12 9 months ago
@MrPingypop12 Wasn't that the train set that was involved in a fire back in 1971?
MysticMTL 9 months ago
@MysticMTL I dont know know its typed that its still in service element 10 11 and 12
MrPingypop12 9 months ago
@MrPingypop12 These trains are missing in action:
81-521 / 80-011 / 81-522 and 81-523 / 80-012 / 81-524
MysticMTL 9 months ago
@MysticMTL And no one possibly knows about them no one ever recorded it maybe if u go at the subway ask and operator if they are in service
MrPingypop12 9 months ago
@MrPingypop12 I don't think an operator would know where they were. There were about 3 or 4 trains that were involved in accidents and fires in the early 1970's, so I assume those are the ones.
MysticMTL 9 months ago
No but on every terminus the train slows down and doesnt enter the station at full speed
MrPingypop12 9 months ago
@MrPingypop12 Same reason, but you notice at Angrignon the most, because the speed control sensors aren't generally located in curves, so when your train is told to go from 45mph to 30mph to 15mph to 30mph to 10mph it makes for a very rough ride. A lot of operators drive this section in manual to make for a more comfortable ride. Like in computers, a train is given a command: Yes or No. So it either is set to go faster to specific speed, or slower to a specific speed, full power not gradual.
MysticMTL 9 months ago
Why cant the trains just go at full speed when entering Angrignon just like other stations?
MrPingypop12 9 months ago
@MrPingypop12 There is a very sharp turn and incline entering into Angrignon, and there is a chance that an employee might be crossing the tracks. It also helps to make sure the brakes are functioning properly, since the end of the track is just after the station. (If the driver falls asleep, really can't happen, but who knows).
MysticMTL 9 months ago
That sound sends chills down my spine every time!
NovaBUSFan 1 year ago
@NovaBUSFan Now you're getting into the feeling of this train! Amazing isn't it?
MysticMTL 1 year ago
@MysticMTL
I got into the feeling of it when I first rode a loud Jeumont. The first times, they were quiet. I actually rode element 42 a while back, and it was as loud as in this video, if not louder!
NovaBUSFan 1 year ago
@NovaBUSFan Listen closely just before the train slows down entering Angrignon. The Jeumont has to pull at full power up the hill and the sound it makes is so loud the sound almost distorts! But it operates so perfectly, and once the hill climb is finished, the motor winds down and shows up again when needed. So must work must have been done to make this train cooperate with the other two incompatible elements attached.
MysticMTL 1 year ago
@MysticMTL
I agree. They did a great job! Its so unfortunate to know that by the beginning of the next decade, they will be all but gone, except maybe for element 001, which the Canadian National Rail Museum (Exporail) is supposed to buy!
NovaBUSFan 1 year ago
@NovaBUSFan That's not necessarily true. The STM has planned on keeping atleast 7 full MR63 train sets to provide extra backup service, or to use in special events. And Expo-Rail will have atleast one set, perhaps only 3 cars though, and there will be a full 9 car element parked at Ile-Ste-Helene! So they won't all be gone, and even if they do get retired, several transit agencies around the world have already demonstrated interest, since they have trains that date back to the 2nd world war!
MysticMTL 1 year ago
@MysticMTL Is that a fact that STM will display a full 9 car parked on Ile Sat-Helene!! Where though? Plus thanks for posting these awesome metro/bus clips!!
mtlnash76 11 months ago
@mtlnash76 The STM said a set of original MR63 cars, though I don't recall if they said a set of 3 or all 9 cars. And how they're going to do that is anybody's guess. I assume they'll load each car up on a flatbed and bring it across the Jacques Cartier bridge. Also, no problem about the videos, I enjoy it! :)
MysticMTL 11 months ago
lol I m SUCH a Metro de Montreal "junkie" :P ... it's like crack to me haha.. I can certainly understand your obsession with making videos of the metro, MysticMTL :-D
ammarios 1 year ago 5
@ammarios The sights, the sounds and even the smells of the metro are just so addictive and keep calling me to come back. And the new metro cars will have wooden brake shoes installed instead of steel, so the smells of the metro should be the same in the future as well!
I really love the sound of this Jeumont prototype train, and it's always a joy to ride on it, especially when the motor is forcing a bit, so the sound is even louder!
MysticMTL 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If ANYONE has them, you have NO IDEA how happy you would make me if you could somehow either send them to me...etc...
I just LOVE our metro, and it would give me GREAT pleasure to be able to hear them on demand..especially since the 1st station and terminus announcements for each line and the station announcements themselves for each line are said at different pitches and speeds..they are all unique and to me, are a trademark of the most wonderful city on this planet :-D
ammarios 1 year ago
Also, I am originally from Montreal, but currently live in Ontario.. I miss my beloved city SO much..and for some reason, just like some people say certain sights and smells remind them of home, for me, the Station d'metro announcements ALWAYS make me feel warm and closer to home and homesick..I AM DYING to find ALL the train station announcements and the "La STM vous souhaite la bienvenue a bord..prochaine station"..AND" Terminus, merci d'avoir voyage avev la STM..bonne soiree" for ALL lines
ammarios 1 year ago 6
I've noticed something kinda funny... on the ligne orange, when she says the "La STM vous-souhaite la bienvenue a bord..prochaine station ..." she says it just like she does in this video, happy and cheerful and pretty-sounding..whereas on the ligne verte, they recorded her at a lower pitch and speaking slower, and it almost sounds like she's having a bad day and has "just-woke-up" morning-voice..very appropriate when getting on at Angrignon early in the morning...
ammarios 1 year ago 2
I typed this in Judith Ouimet video comment section: (don't you think it's true??) :
ammarios 1 year ago 2
How rude!! lol this time after saying the "terminus, merci d'avoir voyage avec la STM".. she didn't say "bonne journee/soiree".. lol maybe she was cranky :P
btw i found a VERY clear video with "La STM vous-souhaite la bienvenue a bord, prochaine station.." .. just search for "montreal subway Honoré-Beaugrand à Cadillac station" (uploaded by picalsta) - the message starts at 0:12..
Another lovely one is "Judith Ouimet- Berri-UQAM" by ElmerCat....just lovely
ammarios 1 year ago 3
I love our metro's. That sound makes them original. Im 15 now and I used to take them often to go to my grandmother's house when I was younger. By the way that 6th note I heard it on another metro train in montreal. It wasnt #81-852. But do u know when the first of the new metro's is gonna roll?
MrCars 1 year ago
@MrCars There's no date yet, since they still haven't agreed on who's going to make the metro cars.
MysticMTL 1 year ago
@MysticMTL Bombardier And Alstom Is making the new cars
HELLOCHEWY 1 year ago
@HELLOCHEWY Hopefully they'll have a similar sound as this train. It would be hard to adjust to a sound that has been engraved into our minds all our lives. Jeumont 4 Life :)
MysticMTL 1 year ago
@MysticMTL they better this is like an icon
HELLOCHEWY 1 year ago
@HELLOCHEWY If it weren't for this train, then the trains on the Orange Line would never have existed the way that we know, and the funny commercial with il fait beau dans l'metro would never had existed either. It's all thanks to this one train! I really hope that they keep this one running for a long time to come!
MysticMTL 1 year ago
Why can't they just put 40 41 and 42 together?
MrPingypop12 1 year ago
@MrPingypop12 They can no longer do that, since 2002. The entire set was never converted to automatic control, and wasn't used very often. 80-040 as well as 81-579 and 81-580 were pulled from service since they couldn't find enough parts to rebuild them like they did with the the 041 and 042 elements. They kept them parked for years in the tunnel waiting to couple the train with a compatible fit, but the time never arrived. Now 81-579 is used as a restaurant for the Just For Laughs Festival.
MysticMTL 1 year ago
I notice in your information comment that there is a 6th note at the end. In fact, I heard, and I checked myself, what happens is that you hear the first 4 notes then the 5th one will stay on until the train is stopped at the next station. I verified it between Berri-UQAM and Beaudry recently where you go slowly because of renovations, and the 5th note never disappeared and played from Berri to Beaudry. We just don't hear it everytime because the noise of the train covers the frequencies.
Elementodi 1 year ago
@Elementodi Ah, yes, normally the Jeumont's have 5 notes (one more than the MR73's), but in this case there was a 6th note, that's possibly not detected in the video, but it's the note that resonates just before the 1st note and right after the last note when the train has stopped. It must have been a defect, since it no longer makes that extra note, right near that new grinding sound is where it makes up the 6th mysterious sound. This was the loudest I've ever experienced the Jeumont as well!
MysticMTL 1 year ago
@hondarox6775 There are a few repair and maintenance shops scattered across the island. The main one for the MR63 (Green and Yellow line Trains) is at Honore-Beaugrand, where the track splits off into 12 with several hidden corridors that branch out to several blocks long. The maintenance shop for the MR73 (Orange and Blue Line trains) is located at Henri-Bourassa. And finally the most important repair shop is at Youville, it's above ground, outside and inside! Visit my site to see photos of it!
MysticMTL 2 years ago
Mystic, I Don't know if you noticed but in the beginning of your video, that guy knew you were filming and was blocking his face LOL
AntoDamicoShow 2 years ago 2
Hmmm.. I thought that as well.. Not sure how comfortable that is having your arm up like that for long periods of time. Perhaps it's better if you were to lets say get off at the next station if you're bugged about my filming. Oh wait, he did get off.. lol.
MysticMTL 2 years ago
@AntoDamicoShow It looked like he was just resting his head on his hand. Nothing more.
Ritch15 1 year ago
I love this one.
im a bug fan of the public transit. I ride the STL and STM everyday from cartier to st.michel for school im in sec 4.
its amazing that this metro the 5 notes were noticeable and very loud, i never get any like that on the blue and orange line.
AntoDamicoShow 2 years ago
Glad you enjoyed the video. About 2 years ago you would have been able to find this train on the Orange line because they were renovating the MR73 trains, but now they solved that problem by putting the older MR63s (like this one) on the Yellow line so there are now more trains available on the Orange line.
MysticMTL 2 years ago
yayyyy :'D
trainsforever8 2 years ago
lol, thought you might like this one! :)
MysticMTL 2 years ago
I've got one more almost ready too, it's the quieter Jeumont, but driving in full manual, and lots of peanut smoke. :)
MysticMTL 2 years ago