Between the born-again's, and women they have fucked us all up. Spank the fucking kid, plain and simple. Wake up pussies. Look around you, has the society today versus years ago?
Like it or not folks, i grew up with spanking, my brother didnt. my brother is an insignificant hooligan who will die of aids. Me, im basically rich. I own 3 companies, (landscaping, construction, and.. yeah, a limo company. i get rides in style.) and have a beautiful family. Again, my brother cant do anything right lol. So there. Your choice.
Any religious bigot who goes around making hate speeches about the over a billion Christians on earth and admiring matricidal rapist dictators and infanticide is a mental case who should be locked up in a lunatic assylum before they murder somebody... or possibly looking for someone to beat some civility into their behind.
Wouldn't it be more effective to get to the root of the problem, by finding out what's causing the child to misbehave in the first place? If smacking works why do you have to keep doing it?
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@PurpleShades1 "If smacking works why do you have to keep doing it?" Seriously??? Ok so you tell me what kind of discipline technique that YOU use where you only need to use it ONCE. WHen you find out lemme kno so i could spread the word.
@Liqsippa365 There's no need to be so hostile towards me. The solutions vary, depending on what it is that the child has done wrong. I don't believe that spanking is disciplne, it's the the result of what happens when the parent has gotten angry and lost control.
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@PurpleShades1 i understand where youre comming from, really i do. but in a society where there are way more negative influences on our youth than 100years ago, for example, spanking unfortunately is indeed necessary 4 sum. Theres more to it than sum1 getting "angry." thats where people alloew stereotypes, unfortunately, 2 overshadow reality. Kids nowadays have to deal w guns, drugs, sex, gangs, etc n are way smarter than kids of yesterday. kids now laugh @ a "time out." Thats all im saying.
@Liqsippa365 I think that we need to focus on those negative influences that plaque our society, and come up with a way that we can eliminate them before we have children. So that we can stop this destructive cycle.
@PurpleShades1 negative influences come from a lack of proper discipline. Ive seen it first hand myself and speak from experience when i say kids are smarter nowadays and know when ur trying to use "techniques" to "deter" certain "behavior." Seriously, it should be up to the parent, not the gov.ernment, thats all im trying to say
@Liqsippa365 Even when we had corporal punishment in the schools and homes, the same problems were still there. Children absorb what they see and it's up to us adults to lead by example, by dealing with our anger in non-destructive ways. Smacking can cause resentment within the child, causing them to strike back once they get older. Sometimes(not always) the gov has to get involved in order to protect children from unfit parents.
@PurpleShades1 it's a matter of conditioning, a 5yr old will not understand the larger implications of why you can't do this or that. try to think logically. look how soldiers are trained, same thing. look at american or many european kids, clearly their methods of 'reasoning' with a child & being under the kid isn't working all the more, we shouldn't imitate a failed western system just bec of colonial mentality
@nenabunena I feel that children need to be taught fom a young age how to discuss, rationalise and reason. So that these skills would strengthen as they get older, and the world would become more peaceful.
@PurpleShades1 I believe in that as well but logic also is needed in training children as do all people. Also, it is quite apparent that the Western method is very ineffective & raising their children. You can see by their lack of a strong family foundation & bond, something very apparent in many Asian families that do employ corporal punishment. A form of punishment that doesn't impede the bond between parent & child, in fact our familial bond is more tight-knit than Westerners
@nenabunena There's good and bad in every culture. Also, children respond differently to physical discipline. Some end up resenting their parents and are scarred for life. While others aren't affected at all.
There are many ways for a parent to get their point across without inflicting pain. I think that the parent's reaction should be in proportion with the mistake that the child has made.
@PurpleShades1 I think there is more bad in family bonding & the raising of kids in Western culture IMO. Some end up resenting their parents esp if the parents take it over the line. I also believe that if an old-fashioned parent is raising their kid in America, the kid in such an environment that raises brats will take any form of discipline against him as a resentment because the West has told him that he has the power in the relationship & he has a right to be spoiled & bratty
@nenabunena Children do need boundaries however, if you are too strict with them, they may rebel and go completely off the rails as soon as they leave home.
I think that (non physical) discipline should be balanced with understanding, caring, trust and respect.
@PurpleShades1 "I think that the parent's reaction should be in proportion with the mistake that the child has made." -------> I agree with this. I don't think leaving the light on is subject to a major belt welting for example. The punishment or talk or discipline should correspond the offence. But I don't believe in handling kids with kid gloves. That's a Western mindset that has been proven by how bratty & disrespectful their kids are, ineffective.
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I grew up being spanked if I did something wrong. Now, look at me. I chose friends who don't drink or do drugs. Hell, 2 of them don't even swear. I'm living a happy life and I can see a good future. I am scared of my dad sometimes but it's good if you're atleast a bit scared of your parents because you won't do something bad.
@musicluver85 i've never been spanked but my dad scares me when he's angry. My story was opposite of you though. I grew up and started drugs and drinking because I had no discipline in my life at all. I actually got in huge trouble with health issues because of addictions. I was a lucky person with learning the things I needed from friends who werent into drugs or drinking.
Best solution, don't have any fucking kids! Have an abortion!
Oh and to the guy who uses the bible as an excuse to spank a child, fuck the bible! Besides, the bible is full of shit anyway. Damn Christians! Where's Nero when you need him?
In short, suck the people who support spanking, and fuck the people who don't support spanking!
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I total agree with spanking your child .. if you don't spank your child then more then likely your child will grow up doing what ever he/she wants to do, total disrespecting their parents as the grow older cause they know mom and dad wont spank me i can do what ever i want. In the BIble its says and i quote "spare the rod, spoil the child" I have put my child in time out many times and there is not effect what so ever, when i spank my child there's an effect.
spankings are never neccessary, if it seems so it is because it is necessary because the parent lacks the intellect or self controll to handle the situation as an adult.
Sparing the rod and spoiling the child is basically sending out a message that"I can do whatever I like and little or nothing will ever happen to me and I can push mummy and daddy to whatever limits I like and they'll still do nothing to me.", without boundaries or punishments it just goes even stupider!
Since the 1970s here have been 25 million deaths caused by AIDS, 500 times everybody who died in Vietnam, The alternative to corporal punishment is juvenal delinquents getting dragged off to jails where they get gang raped and infected with AIDS, coming out far worse delinquents, maybe raping your kid giving her AIDS.
ok all this shit is an older generation vs. the new, the ones against spanking would be the newer generation and the ones that support spanking are the older.
i got the belt allot when i was a kid. My dad also hit my head sometimes. Now that i am 16 i know my dad did this to me for a reason. It is because he did not want me to grow up spoiled and irresponsible.
In hebrews 12:09-10 we see a comparison being done between the chastising of our flesh by our earthly fathers and the non-violent chastising of God unto his children. in verse 10 it shows that the only form of chastisment that is profitable to the one receiving it is that which comes from God while that done unto our flesh by our fathers is not profitable to us but only feeds the pleasures of those that inflict it !
according to the new testiment corporal punishment can not be considered wisdom because it contradicts every description put forth for wisdom in james 3:17 also according to the new teswtiment corporal punishment can not be considered love -see 1john 4:18.
haha,kids that havent been properly physically disciplined will always act up, because they know all theyre going to get is a time out,or get grounded. and you can see that in schools everyday,a person with the fear of discipline,will respect the rules,and not push the boundaries,and my question is, what kid with REAL trouble issues is going to fear a time out? its the same thing as jail,if theyre not scared of going there,then they wont care what they do.its fear what keeps people in line.
@kidrhimel i wasn't ever "physically disciplined" and I obey my parents. I don't obey them because i fear them, but because i love and respect them. I DO NOT obey my parents without question because they aren't perfect. I'm allowed to disagree as long as i do it respectfully and remember that they're still in charge. As for not pushing the boundaries... you realize that every bit of progress EVER i a result of pushing the boundaries right?
corporal punishment cant be considered wisdom by new testiment standards james 3:17-18 but the wisdom that is from above is first pure,then peaceable, gentle,and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hipocracy. and the fruite of the riteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. corporal punishment cant be considered love by new testiment standards 1 john 4:18
Corporal punishment is full of hipocracy and is not peacful or merciful and definitley not gentle so it can not be considered wisdom according to the new testiment's definition of wisdom. james 3:17-18 but the wisdom that is from above is first pure,then peaceable, gentle,and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hipocracy. and the fruite of the riteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
He presents such a simple solution, doesn't he? "If you don't believe in spanking, DON'T SPANK YOUR KIDS, but don't try and take away MY right to spank as I see fit." I'd bet my last cent this same guy couldn't handle being told: "If you don't believe in abortion, DON'T HAVE AN ABORTION, but don't try and take away MY right to do with my body as I see fit." When HE feels strongly against an issue, it's OK for HIM to tell other people what to do with their kids, right?
if there is a difference in chastisment and abuse it is contingent on the amount or severity of the violence and has nothing to do with authority or the role one has in life. in other words if spanking a child in love isnt wrong then spanking a grandparent out of love is ok too.
i bet the kids that these non-spanking parents are disrespectful maniacs. i know a lot of parents that dont spank their kids and literaly its the kids that control the parents not the parents controling the kids and thats the way it should be. Parents need to be like if the child screws up correct. if it just keeps on occuring and the child doesnt listen then spank.
@armygunner08 yes they have no clue who the boss is i know this little girl who has no respect for her parents they were trying to go the loving way with "no spankings" and now look at how terrible there kid is! you dont have to spank them hard like brusing but you spank them when they are little then when they are older they have athority in the proper place and dont need a spanking!
This is 21st Century, North "Fucking" America. What the Fuck? Parents and teachers shouldn't abuse children. Abuse is abuse, even if it is spanking. Oh yeah, your intentions are to discipline the child. But the emotional damage is done. Any kid being abused by their parents or teachers: JUST HIT BACK UNTIL THEY GET THE MESSAGE!
And there's no spanking in the bible, even in the literal sense. People justifying a form of abuse by quoting the Bible. That's some more bullshit.
The Bible says to discipline your child but the bible also says "lean not to your own understanging but [rather lean on him]".
If a parent has done whatever kinds of discipline that are appropriate by law(spiritual, social, governmental or otherwise) then the parent must then turn TO someone greater than them(HIM) for hope and guidance, specially hope that the child will learn albeit the short amount of time a child contemplates on the situation.
@SmokeyMcPot420yee worked on me 2until I grew up 2 b a Sunday school assistant & got in trouble for spanking a child. Now not only do I know that there are rules but there are also times to not lean on own understanding but rather hope &pray to the ONE who is with all power and all knowledge to guide not only me but the person who is intended to be spanked to a better future.
Spanking is an action of emotion first & foremost as it' s human instinct to eliminate anything we're uncomfortable of.
@Quakership89 so... can you please put what you're saying in layman's terms? By the way, the argument of people who're in favor of spanking is the said quote from the Bible. Now, I don't claim to know all of the Bible but I only relay what I know & understand. Furthermore, the "rod' doesn't mean spanking necessarily but rather discipline. Since the people who are pro spanking are placing the bible as evidence then I will use the Bible as an opposition to spanking.
@Quakership89 People are refering to the bible because they have faith in Jesus Christ's teachings. The Bible is obviously complex yet at the same time simple. If people are to answer such moral based questions then people need to refer to moral based sources. It 's to seek answers from the bible set by the bible.
Submitted by Rev. Dr. Thomas E. Sagendorf, retired Methodist Minister, Hamilton, Indiana
As a pastor, Im often asked about what the Bible says about the way we should live our daily lives. For example, how should we discipline our children? What about spanking? My answer is clear. I can find no sanction in the teaching of Jesus or the witness of the New Testament to encourage the practice of corporal punishment... at home, at school, or anywhere else.
Proverbs. 13:24 "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
Proverbs. 23:13 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die."
Since this pastor doesn't like these verse, lets just expunge these verses from the Bible shall we?
I find it troubling when Christians, trash the word of God by purposely ignoring what is clearly written not once but twice. Was there a typo in the Bible TWICE??
@ladyEulaelie proverbs also says a rod is for a fools back. i guess as christians it is then our duty to beat atheist over the back because the fool hath said in his heart there is no God.
Those who employ this method frequently misunderstand and misuse scripture. refering to the verses in proverbs to justify a spanking is a form of selective reading.A similar method of selective reading could just as easily be used to justify slavery, suppression of women, polygamy, incest and infanticide. Much of what poses as biblical grounding for corporal punishment is really secular thinking wrapped in religious language. It does not stand the test of what Jesus said and taught
I have given you biblical verses that support specifically corporal punishment. No manipulation needed. While it is very clear that men are not to be violent with each other outside of war and punishment of crimes (for example if you kill or rape you would have been flogged in biblical times) the bible makes a CLEAR, unambiguous distinction between spanking and cutting a man's ear off in rage as Peter did.
@ladyEulaelie both old and new testiments promote slavery. just as much as the o.t. supports beatings. no where will you find something bluntly obviouse as thou shalt not spank or own slaves. but neither corporal puniehment or spankings can hold up to the new testiment principals and philosophies.
Just because slavery was documented in the Ot and the NT, it does not mean that God promotes slavery. After Cain killed Abel, God put a mark on Cain that would protect him for a time when he fled. Does this mean that God promotes murder??
Go by your conscience. If you believe that its wrong to spank your kids...don't do it. Anything that your conscious tells you not to do but you do it anyway is a sin. To each its own.
I believe that it would be wrong to spoil the rod...so I will spank my kids. Go by your conscience and have a nice life. =)
@srh1502 spanking is not hitting. Hitting is out of hatred, spanking is out of correction. The skin is an instrument of caution to the body, mind and brain. You take care when picking broken glasses, you take care when dealing with fire, because you have been warned by the pain you got from those things. So is spanking. Kids think twice before doing something if they have been spanked on that issue.
Thank you exactly. I don't know why people go to the extremes when they think of it is to spank a child. Its not smacking them, its not beating them, its not body slamming them....its not physical abuse. A spanking is a forceful tap on the buttock region....thats it! Why do people make such a big deal about it?? No child hates their parents b/c they were spanked lol. Most people look back and laugh about it any way now that they are older.
@ezeimo Spanking IS TOO hitting. Every thesaurus lists spanking and hitting as synonyms. The reason for doing it does NOT change what the act itself is. Like pain, RAPE is also an unwanted, upsetting touch to the body that would make kids think twice before doing something wrong. Does that mean we should use rape as punishment? Maybe if we call it 'sitzawing', gentler rape can be reasonable punishment as opposed to the rough, DIFFERENT dark alley kind, eh?
some kids are seriously out of control that some parents couldn't help but just spank them since lecturing wont work. it's not only parents that influence kids, there are also other factors to why they act the way they do. but im not saying that people should beat the crap out of kids to teach them a lesson though..
All the passive parents are full of crap. They want to feel protected in the world around them, yet don't want to protect the child from themselves. We have seen too many examples of the"just love your child,& that's all you need", movement go wrong. Look at Columbine. Those 2 assholes got enough personal space to plan & carry all that out. You "flower" parents can "wish" all you want for how we"should" be, but human nature will win every time.
@RedSkullthagreat You don't have to be spanked to be crazy. I don't care who's in jail, I bet all those assholes are a mix of spanked and unspanked. Your (and others) argument is invalid.
this idiot says reasonable and age appropriate spanking" there is not such thing as age appropriate in the bible. saloman beat everybody under his rule even adults. reasonable is not in the bible either. there is no rules or regulations to how to do it. even taking scorpians to people was still only refered to as chastisment not abuse
there is no such thing as a biblical spanking. the word spank isnt in the bible anywhere nor is any rules or guidlines to direct any use of a rod for beatings.
@ladyEulaelie exactley how does that interpret into a modern day spanking in your eyes? No where does it say that a rod can be substituted for a paddle,belt, switch or hand. no where does it say that the child's butt is the proper place to hit them. nowhere does it say how hard or how often to hit them. The book of provebs never claims to be God speaking but rather saloman, and he is only speaking directly to his son. which the Bible points out turned out horrible as an adult.
rods, paddles, belts....read between the lines. Of course people shouldn't go over board and use knives, spikes and shovels. Its speaking of discipline.
The Bible is simply written in Old english and although some things refer to the ancient customs...nothing is ever really new. It it worked then It'll work now.
Maybe the Bible doesn't say how often or how hard to physically discipline kids because every child and parent is different and parents are expected to use discernment.
Solomon's wisdom was bestowed to him from God and the Bible was inspired from God. Its your opinion that David was a horrible adult. He was human...
@ladyEulaelie first , david was salomom's father not his son. I was refering to salomons son rehoboam who you dont seem to know much about. (you would think if you are going to take parenting advice from someone you would look at there children as an example) The bible says you will know a tree by the fruit it bares.
@ladyEulaelie "if it worked then it will work now" well it didnt work then it didnt work for salomon the bible makes that clear and in deut. the reason they had to stone the children is because it did not work. it has always been a failing method.
I'm sure Solomon learned from experiences in his life.
?? Spanking didn't work for Solomon?? There are no accounts of Rehoboam as a little bad/good boy. Rehoboam as a king worshiped the golden calfs of the people....but this didn't make him a bad person or a criminal...just unfavorable in God's eyes.
@ladyEulaelie Rehoboam was i despised king that was full of greed and disregard for other people. he lost all that his father had for being such a self centered tirant. putting such heavy tax loads on his people to satisfy his greed he had to flea his throne to keep from being assasinated. not to mention his idolitry.
@ladyEulaelie an interesting verse in the story of rehoboam gives account of rehoboam trying to scare his people into submission by making reference to his father and said" salomon chastised you with whipps but i will chastise you with scorpions". This shows that salomon handled everyone with corporal punishment not just children like the church today. and it also points out that torturing people with scorpions was still only considered chastisment. so they were not concerned with abuse.
Those were the days where the standard form of punishment was being whipped, flogged and crucified. This was the accepted form of punishment. Child molestors and rapist were not made to sit in a "cell". They were beaten.
The Bible says to not provoke your kids to anger. Kids know when they have done wrong and what they deserve. I find it to be nonexistent an adult who has resentment for a spanking given to them as a child.
@ladyEulaelie it is 100 % impossible to hit anyone for any reason without provoking them to anger. not to mention proving them to wrath. If i hit you and tell you its because i love you will you not get angry? come on give me a break.
@ladyEulaelie so what basis do you accept that adult beatings are no longer acceptable under new testiment teachings but children beatings are. God is no respector of persons.
@ladyEulaelie "not provoke your kids to anger" this is what many Christian parents ignore and just go with the rule of children obeying their parents.
Absolutely agree! Parents should exercise their parental, God given rights to the fullest & at the same time not hassle their kids with minute matters or constantly nag them. Show your kids that you trust them & if they are not trust worthy give them a chance to prove themselves worthy of your trust. I hate it that many kids are allowed to be head of their house hold. Kids need direction & guidance, not your friendship. Nothing wrong w/ being a strict loving parent. It saved me.
Have you ever gave it some thought that perhaps there was a possibility that Solomon didn't spank Rehoboam b/c he hadn't aquired the wisdom given to him till later in life, or neglected to use it b/c of a tug of war in parenting styles?? I don't t think Solomon was an old man when he wrote the book of Proverbs because when he wrote Eccles. it had a more mature tune to it.
@ladyEulaelie If you would read the book of proverbs you would see that salomon is directing the proverbs directly at his son so yes his son was alive and young when the book was written.
Its not the argument that if a person is spanked as a child that they will not grow up to make bad mistakes.
Peter of the Apostle still had not converted his heart when he walked with God and the Bible told of his short comings but does that mean we should throw out most of the new testament b/c Peter wrote most of it?
There is a story in the Bible about a man who did not discipline his sons for habitually defiled the temple of God and God was very disappointed in his parenting.
@ladyEulaelie When God gave salomon wisdom ,that means he increased his ability to reason higher than others of his time. Wisdom is not an increase in knowledge but only the proper use of knowledge. salomons knowledge and methods were still derived from the culture of the day and not inspired by God.
@ladyEulaelie Christ delivered the human race from physical chastisment by taking all those beatings on the cross prior to his crucifixion. To explain why christ had to endore such torture it says"the chastisment of our peace was upon him" he took our physical chastisment once and for all so we could be at peace. how can someone claim to be a christian and not accept all of what christ did for them on the cross?
Jesus Christ took on the sins of the world b/c he was the only sacrifice that could redeem the world from its sins. Why on earth would you compare the sacrifice of an innocent divine individual to a child who bit charlie's finger or smack his sister?? Spanking is for the purpose of enforcing that there are consequences for your actions, not for making a child compensate for his behavior so they will be punished as excused from hell. Absolutely no connection there.
@ladyEulaelie we've not even touched on everything the new testiment has to say about this. which totally proves that one cannot beleive in corporal punishment and live by the new testiment.
I believe that the new testament and the old testament compliment each other and that they don't contradict each other at all. The NT refers back to the OT and the OT to the NT. For those reasons I personally do not believe its right to throw out the old testament.
I have not read any biblical scripture that points out corporal punishment as being wrong. I will admit any day that I'm wrong if there is clear scriptural bases against spanking. If you find a verse holla back.
The laws you speak of or of the ceremonial laws. Moses laws were done away with with Jesus died on the cross...however, his law, the deca law stands forever. When one understands the ins and outs of the law and prophecy there is no reason to cast out the OT.
@ladyEulaelie the physical chastisment was just as much a part of the law of moses as the stoning part. you cant throw out one without throwing out the other. Especially in light of new testiment giving every possible reason that corporal punishment is not o.k.
WIth all due respect, why do you insist on bringing up Moses's laws? Moses laws have no significant dealings w/ the wisdom of Solomon. As I had addressed before, we are not under the law of Moses b/c God made a new covenant with Israel. We are under the God's law, yes but not Moses's law. THe ceremonial laws were done away with.
You have not proven your case w/ a verse that clearly validates your point. Here are some verses that validates my point. Prov. 23:13 and 13:24.
@ladyEulaelie yes proverbs is not a part of the law of moses nor any other law. however physical chastisment was a big part of the law of moses and if it was done away with then so was physical chastisment. Apostle paul said that coming at someone with a rod was the opposite of love. In your own words. "read between the lines"
You find physical chastisment in the NT as well, for example, in Revelations and other NT books it is recorded that the end result of not being in the Jesus Christ is hell fire. Should God say that he will not punish people wicked people because physical punishment was in Moses's Law??
If you want to go that far you have to follow the virtue. There is a bit of discernment as well.
@ladyEulaelie we are to live under a different standard while in the grace period. What happens in revolation is after the grace period. one cannot justify violence by anything that happened before of after this time frame. during this time we are to look torward christ in the flesh as our guide to how to live. Jesus said fear not man that can destroy the body but rather fear God that can destroy both body and soul. without fear violence has no power.
Where does the Apostle Paul say that "the coming at someone with a rod was the opposite of love" and why would he contradict other parts of the Bible. Paul is not a false prophet.
I should reading between the lines?? Wow...so much for a person like you who is a bit challanged at reading the reading the lines, eh?
Read the chapter and the context of that verse will be clear to you.
One of the churches had deserted God and some of the members of this church wanted Paul to come to them puffed up. As it is in these times, the way to convince people to worship gods and stay in strict adherence to the customs of a religion was to invoke fear by violence. We are to come willingly to Christ and let his power convert us, not at the control of rods.
@ladyEulaelie exactley , many people falsly think that paul is giving them an ultimatum or threatening them with the rod when in reality he is trying to reason with them. Saying that enforcing by the rod is not associated with love. but gentleness is. it is the christ way. So yes he is saying that coming at someone with a rod is the opposite of love.
The people NEVER thought that Paul had those intentions although some members wanted paul to probably organize police like reinforcement of the principals of Christianity.
Enforcment by any means...rod not included...would not be in the spirit of Love. God created us to make choices and we are not forced to follow him. With the same token, parents ARE to enforce laws in their house regardless of their opinion on spanking. To not enforce house rules is the opposite of love.
"Meekness: quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive : I used to call her Miss Mouse because she was so meek and mild | the meek compliance of our politicians."
Paul may approach ex-followers of Christ in the spirit of meekness but the approach of a misbehaving child should be in the spirit of authoritative love AND concern. This is the key element in discipline a child, whether you believe in spanking or not.
@ladyEulaelie the fruits of the spirit, love,patience, kindness,self control,temperance these are the tools you use to raise a child not rods,belts,paddles,hands, fist, extension cords,baseball bats, clothes hangers or any other weapon.
John 2:15, "So he [Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables."
The fruits of the spirit have nothing to do about loving your kids so much that you actually discipline by spanking them. Its not the only form of punishment but according the wise words of the Bible, "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."
A loving parent will have the ability to discern what is the right range of discipline for general punishment (including CP) of their kids.
You have to define harsh, extreme and abusive. A parent makes their child mow a football field w/ a hand pusher lawn mower for rolling their eyes. This seems harsh but does it mean that the parent doesn't love their kid? Should this be abuse by law?
What is too harsh or extreme when considering abuse should be instinctive. There's a line.
This is pretty much played out and you have basically backed yourself into a corner. Please answer me this...
1. Was Jesus lacking in love, patience, kindness, self control and temperance when he whipped (not an action as light as spanking) the people in the temple for being disrespectful in his father's house?
I'm pretty sure that you will avoid my question or play ring around the rosy with my question but hey...
@ladyEulaelie jesus didnt whipp any one the whipp was for the livestock the, sheep and oxen. he used the whipp to get the livestock moving and the people followed as to not loose there livestock. yes this is an assumption but so is thinking he whipped him. the difference is my assumption doesnt have christ doing something that contradicts every thing he ever said or did.
@ladyEulaelie we are talking about the same jesus that when he was being arrested in the garden ,peter took his sword and cut of the soldiers ear. christ was disgusted by such a violent act that he called peter satan! dont you find it ironic that defending the messiah is not a justifiable reason to turn to violence but defence of a temple is. clearly jesus did not whipp anyone.
These are not my own words. The Bible clear says....
"And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise."
@ladyEulaelie the words of the bible in that verse does not say he hit them with the scourge but only ran them out. you are seeing what you want to see and interpreting that verse through your own violent temper. and yes jesus calls peter satan in mathew 16:23
Peter cutting someones ear off can not be coherently compared to a loving mother who swats her child on the behind for stealing some kids allowance at school or for bullying a kid at school.
Jesus is our example....not Peter. What did Jesus do? How can we properly discern what is right and wrong by the actions of Jesus. Surely Jesus would not sin nor contradict himself. He said turn the left cheek but he made a scourge of small cords and drove ppl out the temple.
@ladyEulaelie for sack of aurgument lets assume your right and jesus did whipp the moneychangers. this still lines up with what i have been saying because. jesus was still under the old law . he had not yet been crucified and took our chastisment for us there by delivering us from corporal punishment. It is only at the crusifixion that the law was nailed to the cross. either way . being ran out and whipped are two different things!
Jesus came to fulfill the God's law, not Mose's law.
Ex. where Jesus did not go by Moses Law...the adulterous woman.
John 8:4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not."
@ladyEulaelieAthe fullfillment that christ came to do was a fullfillment of the prophecies about the messaiah that is found within o.t. jewish law(moses law) Jesus lived and taught before his death naturally so the principals he taught was those of morality and not of law. the law was about to change and jesus was preparing our thinking for the coming change.
We need the OT to understand God's plan of salvation for us. If Jesus came to fulfil the law of Moses, what was his point of birth on this earth??
The OT points to his coming to die on the cross. Mose's law in itself points to a coming messiah. Mose's law was to stand until the Lamb was slain. Jesus has already died for our sins so there is no need for moses's law. Jesus came to fulfil the 10 commandments...his royal law which was from the begining and will be for eternalty.
@ladyEulaelie regardless of what you think about the book of proverbs ,i must point out that nowhere in the plan of salvation is it mandatory to live by anything that salomon wrote. If you think God embraced the human culture of corporal punishment that is your choose but stop trying to deceive other christians into hitting there children to make you feel better about hitting yours.
I have no problem giving my opinion, but I have way more maturity and tact then to degrade others for having a different opinion than myself. Opinions are like butt orfices...everyone has one.
Again, do what you feel is right. You won't miss out on the salvation of Jesus if you are pro/anti-spanking.
If you chose to leave more immature comments that do nothing to add to the details of your argument, thats your choice. Based off the last few comments you made, it is evident that you have nothing intelligent left to say that is worth reading or responding to. If leaving more idiotic comments makes your day,have at it.
@ladyEulaelie It's not a matter of simply doing what i feel is right but rather doing what the holy spirit directley convicts my heart to do,while receiving confermation of it being right by having terrific results with my daughter's behavior.You will know a tree by it's fruit.
@ladyEulaelie It's not a matter of simply doing what i feel is right but rather doing what the holy spirit directley convicts my heart to do,while receiving confermation of it being right by having terrific results with my daughter's behavior.You will know a tree by it's fruit.
@ladyEulaelie so if jesus did whipp the men(although i dont beleive so) then that would just add to the many more scriptures promoting corporal punishment of adults then children that i refered to later. Tell me do you use this story to promote adults attacking adults or do you you use it to only promote attacking children?
Your issue is not with me but with Scripture. It takes much understanding, wisdom from God to understand and connect principals in scripture. I'm not going to argue with you over whether what Jesus did was right or wrong when I believe that Jesus commited no sin ever. You should go to God in prayer and ask for him to give understanding of the scriptures. Much love =* =)
@ladyEulaelie very rarely does traditional thinking line up with what is actually written in the bible. I dont expect you to change your stubborn brain washed view point. but be aware that spanking is not a universal christian practice. there are many christians that have found the truth through the scripture and guidance by the holy spirit to not spank. I can direct you to many websites that can offer much more bible study into this subject if you are truely looking scriptural truth.
You are merely suggesting that the Bible changes...the principals in the Bible do not change.
If the Bible said "He who gives the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to spare the rod." You would be finding the challenge to not diss Jesus but to diss miss what the Bible says. Either way is a diss.
You obviously no issue with dissing the word of God...hey that is you and I respect your decision to diss the Bible.
@ladyEulaelie your the one dissing the new testiment principals in favor of the old. regardless of what you may want to believe things change or else you are saying that the bible contradicts itself.
The Bible depicts life and life is complicated. We are to ask God for wisdom and understanding when reading the Bible, not for the Bible to spell out every entire aspect of how life should be in every minute detail possible.
I asked you a simple question and you have failed to answer it.
When Jesus went through the temple with a whip, was he lacking in the fruits of the spirit? If not, why would a parent be lacking in the fruits of the spirit if they spank their kid??
@ladyEulaelie the answer to your question is depends on what your assumption is of what really took place at the temple. we both assume deferent things about how to interpret this story. so since there is no common beleif between us one can not answer the question until we are in agreement of what jesus actually did.
If you are a Bible Christian shouldn't the Bible be the all that ends all?
What does the Bible say? Just do it....pretty simple. It cheapens the word of God when people cherry pick what they do and don't like.
I don't want to have a lenient, or lax view on following God's word...I want to be stubborn about following the Bible. The bible is not a source of tips on my life, its my life guide. I have no shame for what I believe in and I will not flip the Bible to suit myself.
@ladyEulaelie Iin the story of christ in the temple . the bible only gives account of what christ did. it does not teach to go do the same thing to anyone else,because we are under a different law. jesus said let he without sin cast the first stone. by this reasoning christ was without sin unlike every one else so he did have the right to stone the women or even whipp the money changers , we do not have that right.
baseball bats, clothes hangers....phones, bowling balls, lamps, bricks, grand pianos...
Wow quite an unimpressive imagination you have. Its not funny to joke about child abuse. There are people who don't spank...but harshly, cruelly and inappropriately chastise and discipline their kids.
You may joke about yourself, but Its never ok to joke about rape, molestation, or physical abuse. Nor is it ok to defame a group of people by GROSSLY taking their words out of context.
@ladyEulaelie How can you condemn parents that take it too far in your opinion when you have no scripture to back you up in thinking there is a difference between spankings and abuse. What scripture will you point to condemn the parent that is a child abuser in your eyes?
@ladyEulaelie 1 john 4"18 there is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear; because fear hath torment,He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Exactly. You accentuate my point. Parents should discipline their kids, not to make them fear them but to show that they love them.
God punishes and corrects those he loves, not so that people will be afraid of him but for their own enrichment. How many times in the Bible did God send correction that wasn't expressed in a dream as a lecture or a "talking to" or a feeling of no presence of God?
@ladyEulaelie I have no problem in correcting. but never in any form of violent corporal punishemnt. you are teahing them that violence is o.k. yes the n.t. says God chastens those he loves but i have never seen God literally come down and spank anyone so does he not love us? of course he does. he just corrects us in non-violent ways(at least during the grace period, under the new covenent) so as him being the best father figure we should do the same.
@guidav123 But God is who speak to him so "He who spares the ROD hates his son but he who loves him is CAREFUL to discipline him" will be unfortunately translated to spanking. But then again God hints not always bluntly tell so SolomO(a)n? might just just be interpreting it by his own environment & or experience.
Salomons wisdom was contengent on the knowledge that he had of the day .take his wisdom in deciding who was the real mother of the baby for example. threatening to cut the baby in have to get a reaction out of the real mother may have seemed wise at the time but wouldnt be best nowadays. we have DNA testing that would be a much better way to determine the real mother.wisdom is only as good as the knowledge it posesses and vice versa.
philippinese people are too backward in many ways, not only in scientific standpoint but from the conduct of goverment to the handling of their economy and all the way to raising children, their knowledge of child psychology is so unfounded that it's traumatic effect became evident not only to the mental and emotional well being of their children but physical, as well. they not only produce dumb children but they are ugly, too.
They're so many better ways to teach your child than simple walking up and using physical force to teach them that it isn't even funny....But most people are to stupid or just lazy and would rather just smack the kid instead of teaching the kid the right way to behave...
That guy kicks his kid in the ass? Is he INSANE? I was spanked twice, and I still remember both times. And BIBLICAL spanking. Ugh, just hearing the word biblical in front of the word spanking makes me vomit in my mouth a little.
Between the born-again's, and women they have fucked us all up. Spank the fucking kid, plain and simple. Wake up pussies. Look around you, has the society today versus years ago?
2uIamnotGod 2 months ago
All i know is me and my siblings were spanked when we were young. Now i cant even hurt a fly
ninamaemi 7 months ago
how bout neither, it's called child abuse
davidspade200 7 months ago
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spanking used to be allowed in fricken public school for crying out loud, sack up you bunch of pussies, you need to be beat.
broadster44 8 months ago
The solution to the problem is to NOT have kids =)
jaypen2023 9 months ago
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Why are you anti-spankers so sensitive lol!
Liqsippa365 9 months ago
Like it or not folks, i grew up with spanking, my brother didnt. my brother is an insignificant hooligan who will die of aids. Me, im basically rich. I own 3 companies, (landscaping, construction, and.. yeah, a limo company. i get rides in style.) and have a beautiful family. Again, my brother cant do anything right lol. So there. Your choice.
DoctorFreeman97 9 months ago
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I support Corporal Punishment in Public Schools. Our children are out of control.
WillForMayorSA 10 months ago
Any religious bigot who goes around making hate speeches about the over a billion Christians on earth and admiring matricidal rapist dictators and infanticide is a mental case who should be locked up in a lunatic assylum before they murder somebody... or possibly looking for someone to beat some civility into their behind.
Texasjim2007 10 months ago
Wouldn't it be more effective to get to the root of the problem, by finding out what's causing the child to misbehave in the first place? If smacking works why do you have to keep doing it?
PurpleShades1 11 months ago 26
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@PurpleShades1 "If smacking works why do you have to keep doing it?" Seriously??? Ok so you tell me what kind of discipline technique that YOU use where you only need to use it ONCE. WHen you find out lemme kno so i could spread the word.
Liqsippa365 9 months ago
@Liqsippa365 There's no need to be so hostile towards me. The solutions vary, depending on what it is that the child has done wrong. I don't believe that spanking is disciplne, it's the the result of what happens when the parent has gotten angry and lost control.
PurpleShades1 9 months ago 3
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@PurpleShades1 i understand where youre comming from, really i do. but in a society where there are way more negative influences on our youth than 100years ago, for example, spanking unfortunately is indeed necessary 4 sum. Theres more to it than sum1 getting "angry." thats where people alloew stereotypes, unfortunately, 2 overshadow reality. Kids nowadays have to deal w guns, drugs, sex, gangs, etc n are way smarter than kids of yesterday. kids now laugh @ a "time out." Thats all im saying.
Liqsippa365 9 months ago
@Liqsippa365 I think that we need to focus on those negative influences that plaque our society, and come up with a way that we can eliminate them before we have children. So that we can stop this destructive cycle.
PurpleShades1 9 months ago 4
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@PurpleShades1 negative influences come from a lack of proper discipline. Ive seen it first hand myself and speak from experience when i say kids are smarter nowadays and know when ur trying to use "techniques" to "deter" certain "behavior." Seriously, it should be up to the parent, not the gov.ernment, thats all im trying to say
Liqsippa365 9 months ago
@Liqsippa365 Even when we had corporal punishment in the schools and homes, the same problems were still there. Children absorb what they see and it's up to us adults to lead by example, by dealing with our anger in non-destructive ways. Smacking can cause resentment within the child, causing them to strike back once they get older. Sometimes(not always) the gov has to get involved in order to protect children from unfit parents.
PurpleShades1 9 months ago 10
@PurpleShades1 it's a matter of conditioning, a 5yr old will not understand the larger implications of why you can't do this or that. try to think logically. look how soldiers are trained, same thing. look at american or many european kids, clearly their methods of 'reasoning' with a child & being under the kid isn't working all the more, we shouldn't imitate a failed western system just bec of colonial mentality
nenabunena 2 months ago in playlist More videos from SpeakOutABSCBN
@nenabunena I feel that children need to be taught fom a young age how to discuss, rationalise and reason. So that these skills would strengthen as they get older, and the world would become more peaceful.
PurpleShades1 2 months ago
@PurpleShades1 I believe in that as well but logic also is needed in training children as do all people. Also, it is quite apparent that the Western method is very ineffective & raising their children. You can see by their lack of a strong family foundation & bond, something very apparent in many Asian families that do employ corporal punishment. A form of punishment that doesn't impede the bond between parent & child, in fact our familial bond is more tight-knit than Westerners
nenabunena 2 months ago
@nenabunena There's good and bad in every culture. Also, children respond differently to physical discipline. Some end up resenting their parents and are scarred for life. While others aren't affected at all.
There are many ways for a parent to get their point across without inflicting pain. I think that the parent's reaction should be in proportion with the mistake that the child has made.
PurpleShades1 2 months ago
@PurpleShades1 I think there is more bad in family bonding & the raising of kids in Western culture IMO. Some end up resenting their parents esp if the parents take it over the line. I also believe that if an old-fashioned parent is raising their kid in America, the kid in such an environment that raises brats will take any form of discipline against him as a resentment because the West has told him that he has the power in the relationship & he has a right to be spoiled & bratty
nenabunena 2 months ago
@nenabunena Children do need boundaries however, if you are too strict with them, they may rebel and go completely off the rails as soon as they leave home.
I think that (non physical) discipline should be balanced with understanding, caring, trust and respect.
PurpleShades1 2 months ago
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@PurpleShades1 "I think that the parent's reaction should be in proportion with the mistake that the child has made." -------> I agree with this. I don't think leaving the light on is subject to a major belt welting for example. The punishment or talk or discipline should correspond the offence. But I don't believe in handling kids with kid gloves. That's a Western mindset that has been proven by how bratty & disrespectful their kids are, ineffective.
nenabunena 2 months ago
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I grew up being spanked if I did something wrong. Now, look at me. I chose friends who don't drink or do drugs. Hell, 2 of them don't even swear. I'm living a happy life and I can see a good future. I am scared of my dad sometimes but it's good if you're atleast a bit scared of your parents because you won't do something bad.
musicluver85 1 year ago
@musicluver85 i've never been spanked but my dad scares me when he's angry. My story was opposite of you though. I grew up and started drugs and drinking because I had no discipline in my life at all. I actually got in huge trouble with health issues because of addictions. I was a lucky person with learning the things I needed from friends who werent into drugs or drinking.
aeidanlea 11 months ago
@aeidanlea Yeah, friends play a pretty big role.
musicluver85 11 months ago
@musicluver85 I don't know where I would be today if I didn't have these friends in my life. Friends really impact our lives.
aeidanlea 11 months ago 4
Best solution, don't have any fucking kids! Have an abortion!
Oh and to the guy who uses the bible as an excuse to spank a child, fuck the bible! Besides, the bible is full of shit anyway. Damn Christians! Where's Nero when you need him?
In short, suck the people who support spanking, and fuck the people who don't support spanking!
CHCHuser 1 year ago 18
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I total agree with spanking your child .. if you don't spank your child then more then likely your child will grow up doing what ever he/she wants to do, total disrespecting their parents as the grow older cause they know mom and dad wont spank me i can do what ever i want. In the BIble its says and i quote "spare the rod, spoil the child" I have put my child in time out many times and there is not effect what so ever, when i spank my child there's an effect.
sw20008 1 year ago
spankings are never neccessary, if it seems so it is because it is necessary because the parent lacks the intellect or self controll to handle the situation as an adult.
guidav123 1 year ago 5
There are necessary times for a spanking and there are unnecessary times for spankings.
yomamasofat1000 1 year ago
Sparing the rod and spoiling the child is basically sending out a message that"I can do whatever I like and little or nothing will ever happen to me and I can push mummy and daddy to whatever limits I like and they'll still do nothing to me.", without boundaries or punishments it just goes even stupider!
AnthonyUK 1 year ago
Since the 1970s here have been 25 million deaths caused by AIDS, 500 times everybody who died in Vietnam, The alternative to corporal punishment is juvenal delinquents getting dragged off to jails where they get gang raped and infected with AIDS, coming out far worse delinquents, maybe raping your kid giving her AIDS.
Texasjim2007 1 year ago
ok all this shit is an older generation vs. the new, the ones against spanking would be the newer generation and the ones that support spanking are the older.
DeathsWhoreRotting 1 year ago
@DeathsWhoreRotting Disturbing as it is, many young people also condone parents humiliating their children.
Quakership89 1 year ago
i got the belt allot when i was a kid. My dad also hit my head sometimes. Now that i am 16 i know my dad did this to me for a reason. It is because he did not want me to grow up spoiled and irresponsible.
MobiusInfinity117 1 year ago
In hebrews 12:09-10 we see a comparison being done between the chastising of our flesh by our earthly fathers and the non-violent chastising of God unto his children. in verse 10 it shows that the only form of chastisment that is profitable to the one receiving it is that which comes from God while that done unto our flesh by our fathers is not profitable to us but only feeds the pleasures of those that inflict it !
guidav123 1 year ago
To be honest, I agree the guy who said it's Biblical. Children don't understand when they are young, but when they are older, they do understand.
doctorh2005 1 year ago
Just thumbs up if youve been disciplined by your parents and you realize that discpline made you a more respectful person
TheKale808 1 year ago
@TheKale808 lame!! is that respect enough for you?
Quakership89 1 year ago
@Quakership89 nope, btiche needs to learn ur place
TheKale808 1 year ago
according to the new testiment corporal punishment can not be considered wisdom because it contradicts every description put forth for wisdom in james 3:17 also according to the new teswtiment corporal punishment can not be considered love -see 1john 4:18.
guidav123 1 year ago
spankings the best kind of discipline i think a timeout wont do shit
archiesk8 1 year ago
haha,kids that havent been properly physically disciplined will always act up, because they know all theyre going to get is a time out,or get grounded. and you can see that in schools everyday,a person with the fear of discipline,will respect the rules,and not push the boundaries,and my question is, what kid with REAL trouble issues is going to fear a time out? its the same thing as jail,if theyre not scared of going there,then they wont care what they do.its fear what keeps people in line.
kidrhimel 1 year ago
@kidrhimel i wasn't ever "physically disciplined" and I obey my parents. I don't obey them because i fear them, but because i love and respect them. I DO NOT obey my parents without question because they aren't perfect. I'm allowed to disagree as long as i do it respectfully and remember that they're still in charge. As for not pushing the boundaries... you realize that every bit of progress EVER i a result of pushing the boundaries right?
FlamesInMyEyes13131 1 year ago 3
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corporal punishment cant be considered wisdom by new testiment standards james 3:17-18 but the wisdom that is from above is first pure,then peaceable, gentle,and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hipocracy. and the fruite of the riteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. corporal punishment cant be considered love by new testiment standards 1 john 4:18
guidav123 1 year ago
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Corporal punishment is full of hipocracy and is not peacful or merciful and definitley not gentle so it can not be considered wisdom according to the new testiment's definition of wisdom. james 3:17-18 but the wisdom that is from above is first pure,then peaceable, gentle,and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hipocracy. and the fruite of the riteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
guidav123 1 year ago
He presents such a simple solution, doesn't he? "If you don't believe in spanking, DON'T SPANK YOUR KIDS, but don't try and take away MY right to spank as I see fit." I'd bet my last cent this same guy couldn't handle being told: "If you don't believe in abortion, DON'T HAVE AN ABORTION, but don't try and take away MY right to do with my body as I see fit." When HE feels strongly against an issue, it's OK for HIM to tell other people what to do with their kids, right?
SpinBoyZach 1 year ago 2
if there is a difference in chastisment and abuse it is contingent on the amount or severity of the violence and has nothing to do with authority or the role one has in life. in other words if spanking a child in love isnt wrong then spanking a grandparent out of love is ok too.
guidav123 1 year ago
i bet the kids that these non-spanking parents are disrespectful maniacs. i know a lot of parents that dont spank their kids and literaly its the kids that control the parents not the parents controling the kids and thats the way it should be. Parents need to be like if the child screws up correct. if it just keeps on occuring and the child doesnt listen then spank.
armygunner08 1 year ago
@armygunner08 yes they have no clue who the boss is i know this little girl who has no respect for her parents they were trying to go the loving way with "no spankings" and now look at how terrible there kid is! you dont have to spank them hard like brusing but you spank them when they are little then when they are older they have athority in the proper place and dont need a spanking!
0oR0cker 1 year ago
This is 21st Century, North "Fucking" America. What the Fuck? Parents and teachers shouldn't abuse children. Abuse is abuse, even if it is spanking. Oh yeah, your intentions are to discipline the child. But the emotional damage is done. Any kid being abused by their parents or teachers: JUST HIT BACK UNTIL THEY GET THE MESSAGE!
And there's no spanking in the bible, even in the literal sense. People justifying a form of abuse by quoting the Bible. That's some more bullshit.
Br0wNN01sE 1 year ago
The Bible says to discipline your child but the bible also says "lean not to your own understanging but [rather lean on him]".
If a parent has done whatever kinds of discipline that are appropriate by law(spiritual, social, governmental or otherwise) then the parent must then turn TO someone greater than them(HIM) for hope and guidance, specially hope that the child will learn albeit the short amount of time a child contemplates on the situation.
Parents are only parents not THE CREATOR.
DarkR0ze 1 year ago
@SmokeyMcPot420yee worked on me 2until I grew up 2 b a Sunday school assistant & got in trouble for spanking a child. Now not only do I know that there are rules but there are also times to not lean on own understanding but rather hope &pray to the ONE who is with all power and all knowledge to guide not only me but the person who is intended to be spanked to a better future.
Spanking is an action of emotion first & foremost as it' s human instinct to eliminate anything we're uncomfortable of.
DarkR0ze 1 year ago
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DarkR0ze 1 year ago
@DarkR0ze You merely seek respect for this pretentious bombastic bible-thumping.
Quakership89 1 year ago
@Quakership89 so... can you please put what you're saying in layman's terms? By the way, the argument of people who're in favor of spanking is the said quote from the Bible. Now, I don't claim to know all of the Bible but I only relay what I know & understand. Furthermore, the "rod' doesn't mean spanking necessarily but rather discipline. Since the people who are pro spanking are placing the bible as evidence then I will use the Bible as an opposition to spanking.
DarkR0ze 1 year ago
@Quakership89 People are refering to the bible because they have faith in Jesus Christ's teachings. The Bible is obviously complex yet at the same time simple. If people are to answer such moral based questions then people need to refer to moral based sources. It 's to seek answers from the bible set by the bible.
DarkR0ze 1 year ago
@ 1:12 the asian kid is cheating off the black kid. That would NEVER HAPPEN
lolstrong 1 year ago 5
@lolstrong and neither one would cheat off of you!!!!
partyof6please 1 year ago
Submitted by Rev. Dr. Thomas E. Sagendorf, retired Methodist Minister, Hamilton, Indiana
As a pastor, Im often asked about what the Bible says about the way we should live our daily lives. For example, how should we discipline our children? What about spanking? My answer is clear. I can find no sanction in the teaching of Jesus or the witness of the New Testament to encourage the practice of corporal punishment... at home, at school, or anywhere else.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
Proverbs. 13:24 "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
Proverbs. 23:13 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die."
Since this pastor doesn't like these verse, lets just expunge these verses from the Bible shall we?
I find it troubling when Christians, trash the word of God by purposely ignoring what is clearly written not once but twice. Was there a typo in the Bible TWICE??
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie proverbs also says a rod is for a fools back. i guess as christians it is then our duty to beat atheist over the back because the fool hath said in his heart there is no God.
guidav123 1 year ago
Those who employ this method frequently misunderstand and misuse scripture. refering to the verses in proverbs to justify a spanking is a form of selective reading.A similar method of selective reading could just as easily be used to justify slavery, suppression of women, polygamy, incest and infanticide. Much of what poses as biblical grounding for corporal punishment is really secular thinking wrapped in religious language. It does not stand the test of what Jesus said and taught
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
I have given you biblical verses that support specifically corporal punishment. No manipulation needed. While it is very clear that men are not to be violent with each other outside of war and punishment of crimes (for example if you kill or rape you would have been flogged in biblical times) the bible makes a CLEAR, unambiguous distinction between spanking and cutting a man's ear off in rage as Peter did.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie both old and new testiments promote slavery. just as much as the o.t. supports beatings. no where will you find something bluntly obviouse as thou shalt not spank or own slaves. but neither corporal puniehment or spankings can hold up to the new testiment principals and philosophies.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
Just because slavery was documented in the Ot and the NT, it does not mean that God promotes slavery. After Cain killed Abel, God put a mark on Cain that would protect him for a time when he fled. Does this mean that God promotes murder??
Of course not.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
to dismiss all new testiment scripture in favor of the old is the true "cherry picking"
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
Why, yes it is...the same goes visa versa...
I don't know about you but I'm bored of this.
Go by your conscience. If you believe that its wrong to spank your kids...don't do it. Anything that your conscious tells you not to do but you do it anyway is a sin. To each its own.
I believe that it would be wrong to spoil the rod...so I will spank my kids. Go by your conscience and have a nice life. =)
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
theres nothing wrong with smacking but i think others ways may work better if it is consistant
sxcboy4u 1 year ago
@srh1502 spanking is not hitting. Hitting is out of hatred, spanking is out of correction. The skin is an instrument of caution to the body, mind and brain. You take care when picking broken glasses, you take care when dealing with fire, because you have been warned by the pain you got from those things. So is spanking. Kids think twice before doing something if they have been spanked on that issue.
ezeimo 1 year ago 4
@ezeimo
Thank you exactly. I don't know why people go to the extremes when they think of it is to spank a child. Its not smacking them, its not beating them, its not body slamming them....its not physical abuse. A spanking is a forceful tap on the buttock region....thats it! Why do people make such a big deal about it?? No child hates their parents b/c they were spanked lol. Most people look back and laugh about it any way now that they are older.
I know I thought twice!!
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ezeimo Spanking IS TOO hitting. Every thesaurus lists spanking and hitting as synonyms. The reason for doing it does NOT change what the act itself is. Like pain, RAPE is also an unwanted, upsetting touch to the body that would make kids think twice before doing something wrong. Does that mean we should use rape as punishment? Maybe if we call it 'sitzawing', gentler rape can be reasonable punishment as opposed to the rough, DIFFERENT dark alley kind, eh?
SpinBoyZach 1 year ago
I'm all for spanking.
communistrecords 1 year ago
@WHHS2002 that's true, you get taken advantage of when you're too nice. assertiveness over aggressiveness ^^
TheEirica 1 year ago
some kids are seriously out of control that some parents couldn't help but just spank them since lecturing wont work. it's not only parents that influence kids, there are also other factors to why they act the way they do. but im not saying that people should beat the crap out of kids to teach them a lesson though..
TheEirica 1 year ago
All the passive parents are full of crap. They want to feel protected in the world around them, yet don't want to protect the child from themselves. We have seen too many examples of the"just love your child,& that's all you need", movement go wrong. Look at Columbine. Those 2 assholes got enough personal space to plan & carry all that out. You "flower" parents can "wish" all you want for how we"should" be, but human nature will win every time.
RedSkullthagreat 1 year ago
@RedSkullthagreat You don't have to be spanked to be crazy. I don't care who's in jail, I bet all those assholes are a mix of spanked and unspanked. Your (and others) argument is invalid.
QueenSayuri 1 year ago
@QueenSayuri So YOU say...go interview "all them assholes" & let me know the results.
RedSkullthagreat 1 year ago
this idiot says reasonable and age appropriate spanking" there is not such thing as age appropriate in the bible. saloman beat everybody under his rule even adults. reasonable is not in the bible either. there is no rules or regulations to how to do it. even taking scorpians to people was still only refered to as chastisment not abuse
guidav123 2 years ago 3
there is no such thing as a biblical spanking. the word spank isnt in the bible anywhere nor is any rules or guidlines to direct any use of a rod for beatings.
atterolevad 2 years ago 13
@atterolevad
Probverbs 23:13:
"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
Proverbs 13:24: "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
=)
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie exactley how does that interpret into a modern day spanking in your eyes? No where does it say that a rod can be substituted for a paddle,belt, switch or hand. no where does it say that the child's butt is the proper place to hit them. nowhere does it say how hard or how often to hit them. The book of provebs never claims to be God speaking but rather saloman, and he is only speaking directly to his son. which the Bible points out turned out horrible as an adult.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
rods, paddles, belts....read between the lines. Of course people shouldn't go over board and use knives, spikes and shovels. Its speaking of discipline.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@guidav123
The Bible is simply written in Old english and although some things refer to the ancient customs...nothing is ever really new. It it worked then It'll work now.
Maybe the Bible doesn't say how often or how hard to physically discipline kids because every child and parent is different and parents are expected to use discernment.
Solomon's wisdom was bestowed to him from God and the Bible was inspired from God. Its your opinion that David was a horrible adult. He was human...
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie first , david was salomom's father not his son. I was refering to salomons son rehoboam who you dont seem to know much about. (you would think if you are going to take parenting advice from someone you would look at there children as an example) The bible says you will know a tree by the fruit it bares.
guidav123 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie "if it worked then it will work now" well it didnt work then it didnt work for salomon the bible makes that clear and in deut. the reason they had to stone the children is because it did not work. it has always been a failing method.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
I'm sure Solomon learned from experiences in his life.
?? Spanking didn't work for Solomon?? There are no accounts of Rehoboam as a little bad/good boy. Rehoboam as a king worshiped the golden calfs of the people....but this didn't make him a bad person or a criminal...just unfavorable in God's eyes.
cont...
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie Rehoboam was i despised king that was full of greed and disregard for other people. he lost all that his father had for being such a self centered tirant. putting such heavy tax loads on his people to satisfy his greed he had to flea his throne to keep from being assasinated. not to mention his idolitry.
guidav123 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie an interesting verse in the story of rehoboam gives account of rehoboam trying to scare his people into submission by making reference to his father and said" salomon chastised you with whipps but i will chastise you with scorpions". This shows that salomon handled everyone with corporal punishment not just children like the church today. and it also points out that torturing people with scorpions was still only considered chastisment. so they were not concerned with abuse.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
I don't find it very interesting at all.
Those were the days where the standard form of punishment was being whipped, flogged and crucified. This was the accepted form of punishment. Child molestors and rapist were not made to sit in a "cell". They were beaten.
The Bible says to not provoke your kids to anger. Kids know when they have done wrong and what they deserve. I find it to be nonexistent an adult who has resentment for a spanking given to them as a child.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie it is 100 % impossible to hit anyone for any reason without provoking them to anger. not to mention proving them to wrath. If i hit you and tell you its because i love you will you not get angry? come on give me a break.
guidav123 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie so what basis do you accept that adult beatings are no longer acceptable under new testiment teachings but children beatings are. God is no respector of persons.
guidav123 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie if we are still suppose to be beaten for our wrong doings then all of the beatings took on the cross are in vein.
guidav123 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie "not provoke your kids to anger" this is what many Christian parents ignore and just go with the rule of children obeying their parents.
DarkR0ze 1 year ago
@DarkR0ze
Absolutely agree! Parents should exercise their parental, God given rights to the fullest & at the same time not hassle their kids with minute matters or constantly nag them. Show your kids that you trust them & if they are not trust worthy give them a chance to prove themselves worthy of your trust. I hate it that many kids are allowed to be head of their house hold. Kids need direction & guidance, not your friendship. Nothing wrong w/ being a strict loving parent. It saved me.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@guidav123
Cont...
Have you ever gave it some thought that perhaps there was a possibility that Solomon didn't spank Rehoboam b/c he hadn't aquired the wisdom given to him till later in life, or neglected to use it b/c of a tug of war in parenting styles?? I don't t think Solomon was an old man when he wrote the book of Proverbs because when he wrote Eccles. it had a more mature tune to it.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie If you would read the book of proverbs you would see that salomon is directing the proverbs directly at his son so yes his son was alive and young when the book was written.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
Its not the argument that if a person is spanked as a child that they will not grow up to make bad mistakes.
Peter of the Apostle still had not converted his heart when he walked with God and the Bible told of his short comings but does that mean we should throw out most of the new testament b/c Peter wrote most of it?
There is a story in the Bible about a man who did not discipline his sons for habitually defiled the temple of God and God was very disappointed in his parenting.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie When God gave salomon wisdom ,that means he increased his ability to reason higher than others of his time. Wisdom is not an increase in knowledge but only the proper use of knowledge. salomons knowledge and methods were still derived from the culture of the day and not inspired by God.
guidav123 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie Christ delivered the human race from physical chastisment by taking all those beatings on the cross prior to his crucifixion. To explain why christ had to endore such torture it says"the chastisment of our peace was upon him" he took our physical chastisment once and for all so we could be at peace. how can someone claim to be a christian and not accept all of what christ did for them on the cross?
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
Jesus Christ took on the sins of the world b/c he was the only sacrifice that could redeem the world from its sins. Why on earth would you compare the sacrifice of an innocent divine individual to a child who bit charlie's finger or smack his sister?? Spanking is for the purpose of enforcing that there are consequences for your actions, not for making a child compensate for his behavior so they will be punished as excused from hell. Absolutely no connection there.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie we've not even touched on everything the new testiment has to say about this. which totally proves that one cannot beleive in corporal punishment and live by the new testiment.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
I believe that the new testament and the old testament compliment each other and that they don't contradict each other at all. The NT refers back to the OT and the OT to the NT. For those reasons I personally do not believe its right to throw out the old testament.
I have not read any biblical scripture that points out corporal punishment as being wrong. I will admit any day that I'm wrong if there is clear scriptural bases against spanking. If you find a verse holla back.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie if you live by the old testiment then why dont you stone your children to death after they have been chastised and still wont listen?
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
The laws you speak of or of the ceremonial laws. Moses laws were done away with with Jesus died on the cross...however, his law, the deca law stands forever. When one understands the ins and outs of the law and prophecy there is no reason to cast out the OT.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie the physical chastisment was just as much a part of the law of moses as the stoning part. you cant throw out one without throwing out the other. Especially in light of new testiment giving every possible reason that corporal punishment is not o.k.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
WIth all due respect, why do you insist on bringing up Moses's laws? Moses laws have no significant dealings w/ the wisdom of Solomon. As I had addressed before, we are not under the law of Moses b/c God made a new covenant with Israel. We are under the God's law, yes but not Moses's law. THe ceremonial laws were done away with.
You have not proven your case w/ a verse that clearly validates your point. Here are some verses that validates my point. Prov. 23:13 and 13:24.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie yes proverbs is not a part of the law of moses nor any other law. however physical chastisment was a big part of the law of moses and if it was done away with then so was physical chastisment. Apostle paul said that coming at someone with a rod was the opposite of love. In your own words. "read between the lines"
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
You find physical chastisment in the NT as well, for example, in Revelations and other NT books it is recorded that the end result of not being in the Jesus Christ is hell fire. Should God say that he will not punish people wicked people because physical punishment was in Moses's Law??
If you want to go that far you have to follow the virtue. There is a bit of discernment as well.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie we are to live under a different standard while in the grace period. What happens in revolation is after the grace period. one cannot justify violence by anything that happened before of after this time frame. during this time we are to look torward christ in the flesh as our guide to how to live. Jesus said fear not man that can destroy the body but rather fear God that can destroy both body and soul. without fear violence has no power.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
Where does the Apostle Paul say that "the coming at someone with a rod was the opposite of love" and why would he contradict other parts of the Bible. Paul is not a false prophet.
I should reading between the lines?? Wow...so much for a person like you who is a bit challanged at reading the reading the lines, eh?
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie 1 corinthians 4:21 what have ye? shall i come unto with a rod,or in love, and the spirit of meekness?
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
Do you know what this Chapter was about?
Read the chapter and the context of that verse will be clear to you.
One of the churches had deserted God and some of the members of this church wanted Paul to come to them puffed up. As it is in these times, the way to convince people to worship gods and stay in strict adherence to the customs of a religion was to invoke fear by violence. We are to come willingly to Christ and let his power convert us, not at the control of rods.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie exactley , many people falsly think that paul is giving them an ultimatum or threatening them with the rod when in reality he is trying to reason with them. Saying that enforcing by the rod is not associated with love. but gentleness is. it is the christ way. So yes he is saying that coming at someone with a rod is the opposite of love.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
The people NEVER thought that Paul had those intentions although some members wanted paul to probably organize police like reinforcement of the principals of Christianity.
Enforcment by any means...rod not included...would not be in the spirit of Love. God created us to make choices and we are not forced to follow him. With the same token, parents ARE to enforce laws in their house regardless of their opinion on spanking. To not enforce house rules is the opposite of love.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEui I agree but spankings are not an acceptable form of discipline if you beleive in the teachings of christ
guidav123 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie
Dictionary:
"Meekness: quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive : I used to call her Miss Mouse because she was so meek and mild | the meek compliance of our politicians."
Paul may approach ex-followers of Christ in the spirit of meekness but the approach of a misbehaving child should be in the spirit of authoritative love AND concern. This is the key element in discipline a child, whether you believe in spanking or not.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie the fruits of the spirit, love,patience, kindness,self control,temperance these are the tools you use to raise a child not rods,belts,paddles,hands, fist, extension cords,baseball bats, clothes hangers or any other weapon.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
John 2:15, "So he [Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables."
The fruits of the spirit have nothing to do about loving your kids so much that you actually discipline by spanking them. Its not the only form of punishment but according the wise words of the Bible, "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie the main word here is careful. Exactly how careful? There are many ranges of careful that can go from mild extreme to harsh extreme
DarkR0ze 1 year ago
@DarkR0ze
A loving parent will have the ability to discern what is the right range of discipline for general punishment (including CP) of their kids.
You have to define harsh, extreme and abusive. A parent makes their child mow a football field w/ a hand pusher lawn mower for rolling their eyes. This seems harsh but does it mean that the parent doesn't love their kid? Should this be abuse by law?
What is too harsh or extreme when considering abuse should be instinctive. There's a line.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@guidav123
This is pretty much played out and you have basically backed yourself into a corner. Please answer me this...
1. Was Jesus lacking in love, patience, kindness, self control and temperance when he whipped (not an action as light as spanking) the people in the temple for being disrespectful in his father's house?
I'm pretty sure that you will avoid my question or play ring around the rosy with my question but hey...
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie jesus didnt whipp any one the whipp was for the livestock the, sheep and oxen. he used the whipp to get the livestock moving and the people followed as to not loose there livestock. yes this is an assumption but so is thinking he whipped him. the difference is my assumption doesnt have christ doing something that contradicts every thing he ever said or did.
guidav123 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie we are talking about the same jesus that when he was being arrested in the garden ,peter took his sword and cut of the soldiers ear. christ was disgusted by such a violent act that he called peter satan! dont you find it ironic that defending the messiah is not a justifiable reason to turn to violence but defence of a temple is. clearly jesus did not whipp anyone.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
These are not my own words. The Bible clear says....
"And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise."
Btw, Jesus never called peter Satan.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie the words of the bible in that verse does not say he hit them with the scourge but only ran them out. you are seeing what you want to see and interpreting that verse through your own violent temper. and yes jesus calls peter satan in mathew 16:23
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
Peter cutting someones ear off can not be coherently compared to a loving mother who swats her child on the behind for stealing some kids allowance at school or for bullying a kid at school.
Jesus is our example....not Peter. What did Jesus do? How can we properly discern what is right and wrong by the actions of Jesus. Surely Jesus would not sin nor contradict himself. He said turn the left cheek but he made a scourge of small cords and drove ppl out the temple.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie for sack of aurgument lets assume your right and jesus did whipp the moneychangers. this still lines up with what i have been saying because. jesus was still under the old law . he had not yet been crucified and took our chastisment for us there by delivering us from corporal punishment. It is only at the crusifixion that the law was nailed to the cross. either way . being ran out and whipped are two different things!
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
Jesus came to fulfill the God's law, not Mose's law.
Ex. where Jesus did not go by Moses Law...the adulterous woman.
John 8:4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not."
Did he abide by Mose;s law?
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelieAthe fullfillment that christ came to do was a fullfillment of the prophecies about the messaiah that is found within o.t. jewish law(moses law) Jesus lived and taught before his death naturally so the principals he taught was those of morality and not of law. the law was about to change and jesus was preparing our thinking for the coming change.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
We need the OT to understand God's plan of salvation for us. If Jesus came to fulfil the law of Moses, what was his point of birth on this earth??
The OT points to his coming to die on the cross. Mose's law in itself points to a coming messiah. Mose's law was to stand until the Lamb was slain. Jesus has already died for our sins so there is no need for moses's law. Jesus came to fulfil the 10 commandments...his royal law which was from the begining and will be for eternalty.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie regardless of what you think about the book of proverbs ,i must point out that nowhere in the plan of salvation is it mandatory to live by anything that salomon wrote. If you think God embraced the human culture of corporal punishment that is your choose but stop trying to deceive other christians into hitting there children to make you feel better about hitting yours.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
I have no problem giving my opinion, but I have way more maturity and tact then to degrade others for having a different opinion than myself. Opinions are like butt orfices...everyone has one.
continued....
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@guidav123
Again, do what you feel is right. You won't miss out on the salvation of Jesus if you are pro/anti-spanking.
If you chose to leave more immature comments that do nothing to add to the details of your argument, thats your choice. Based off the last few comments you made, it is evident that you have nothing intelligent left to say that is worth reading or responding to. If leaving more idiotic comments makes your day,have at it.
I have left the building. God bless you. Bye. =)
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie It's not a matter of simply doing what i feel is right but rather doing what the holy spirit directley convicts my heart to do,while receiving confermation of it being right by having terrific results with my daughter's behavior.You will know a tree by it's fruit.
guidav123 1 year ago
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@ladyEulaelie It's not a matter of simply doing what i feel is right but rather doing what the holy spirit directley convicts my heart to do,while receiving confermation of it being right by having terrific results with my daughter's behavior.You will know a tree by it's fruit.
guidav123 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie so if jesus did whipp the men(although i dont beleive so) then that would just add to the many more scriptures promoting corporal punishment of adults then children that i refered to later. Tell me do you use this story to promote adults attacking adults or do you you use it to only promote attacking children?
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
Your issue is not with me but with Scripture. It takes much understanding, wisdom from God to understand and connect principals in scripture. I'm not going to argue with you over whether what Jesus did was right or wrong when I believe that Jesus commited no sin ever. You should go to God in prayer and ask for him to give understanding of the scriptures. Much love =* =)
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie very rarely does traditional thinking line up with what is actually written in the bible. I dont expect you to change your stubborn brain washed view point. but be aware that spanking is not a universal christian practice. there are many christians that have found the truth through the scripture and guidance by the holy spirit to not spank. I can direct you to many websites that can offer much more bible study into this subject if you are truely looking scriptural truth.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
You are merely suggesting that the Bible changes...the principals in the Bible do not change.
If the Bible said "He who gives the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to spare the rod." You would be finding the challenge to not diss Jesus but to diss miss what the Bible says. Either way is a diss.
You obviously no issue with dissing the word of God...hey that is you and I respect your decision to diss the Bible.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie your the one dissing the new testiment principals in favor of the old. regardless of what you may want to believe things change or else you are saying that the bible contradicts itself.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
The Bible depicts life and life is complicated. We are to ask God for wisdom and understanding when reading the Bible, not for the Bible to spell out every entire aspect of how life should be in every minute detail possible.
I asked you a simple question and you have failed to answer it.
When Jesus went through the temple with a whip, was he lacking in the fruits of the spirit? If not, why would a parent be lacking in the fruits of the spirit if they spank their kid??
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie the answer to your question is depends on what your assumption is of what really took place at the temple. we both assume deferent things about how to interpret this story. so since there is no common beleif between us one can not answer the question until we are in agreement of what jesus actually did.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
If you are a Bible Christian shouldn't the Bible be the all that ends all?
What does the Bible say? Just do it....pretty simple. It cheapens the word of God when people cherry pick what they do and don't like.
I don't want to have a lenient, or lax view on following God's word...I want to be stubborn about following the Bible. The bible is not a source of tips on my life, its my life guide. I have no shame for what I believe in and I will not flip the Bible to suit myself.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie Iin the story of christ in the temple . the bible only gives account of what christ did. it does not teach to go do the same thing to anyone else,because we are under a different law. jesus said let he without sin cast the first stone. by this reasoning christ was without sin unlike every one else so he did have the right to stone the women or even whipp the money changers , we do not have that right.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
baseball bats, clothes hangers....phones, bowling balls, lamps, bricks, grand pianos...
Wow quite an unimpressive imagination you have. Its not funny to joke about child abuse. There are people who don't spank...but harshly, cruelly and inappropriately chastise and discipline their kids.
You may joke about yourself, but Its never ok to joke about rape, molestation, or physical abuse. Nor is it ok to defame a group of people by GROSSLY taking their words out of context.
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie How can you condemn parents that take it too far in your opinion when you have no scripture to back you up in thinking there is a difference between spankings and abuse. What scripture will you point to condemn the parent that is a child abuser in your eyes?
guidav123 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie 1 john 4"18 there is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear; because fear hath torment,He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123
Exactly. You accentuate my point. Parents should discipline their kids, not to make them fear them but to show that they love them.
God punishes and corrects those he loves, not so that people will be afraid of him but for their own enrichment. How many times in the Bible did God send correction that wasn't expressed in a dream as a lecture or a "talking to" or a feeling of no presence of God?
ladyEulaelie 1 year ago
@ladyEulaelie I have no problem in correcting. but never in any form of violent corporal punishemnt. you are teahing them that violence is o.k. yes the n.t. says God chastens those he loves but i have never seen God literally come down and spank anyone so does he not love us? of course he does. he just corrects us in non-violent ways(at least during the grace period, under the new covenent) so as him being the best father figure we should do the same.
guidav123 1 year ago
@guidav123 But God is who speak to him so "He who spares the ROD hates his son but he who loves him is CAREFUL to discipline him" will be unfortunately translated to spanking. But then again God hints not always bluntly tell so SolomO(a)n? might just just be interpreting it by his own environment & or experience.
DarkR0ze 1 year ago
Salomons wisdom was contengent on the knowledge that he had of the day .take his wisdom in deciding who was the real mother of the baby for example. threatening to cut the baby in have to get a reaction out of the real mother may have seemed wise at the time but wouldnt be best nowadays. we have DNA testing that would be a much better way to determine the real mother.wisdom is only as good as the knowledge it posesses and vice versa.
atterolevad 1 year ago
philippinese people are too backward in many ways, not only in scientific standpoint but from the conduct of goverment to the handling of their economy and all the way to raising children, their knowledge of child psychology is so unfounded that it's traumatic effect became evident not only to the mental and emotional well being of their children but physical, as well. they not only produce dumb children but they are ugly, too.
igorbolsheviks88 2 years ago 8
They're so many better ways to teach your child than simple walking up and using physical force to teach them that it isn't even funny....But most people are to stupid or just lazy and would rather just smack the kid instead of teaching the kid the right way to behave...
scorpionkings 2 years ago 8
I'd like to cram the bible up that principles ass!
scorpionkings 2 years ago 3
@scorpionkings
Agree he use the bible as defense which is BULLSHIT and to prove that spanking kids is right. isnt the Bible WRITTEN by Man?
Saffroncreature 2 years ago
That guy kicks his kid in the ass? Is he INSANE? I was spanked twice, and I still remember both times. And BIBLICAL spanking. Ugh, just hearing the word biblical in front of the word spanking makes me vomit in my mouth a little.
Nine00 2 years ago 4
Spanking is the tool of fools who do not understand how to deal with children effectively.
Once again religion is in favor of violence in order to solve problems and force their influence upon others.
thechurchofdave 2 years ago 5