I am not saying that all people should become vegetarians, it is up to them. But humans are some of the most cruelest creatures around, napalm, war, slavery and torture. You just confirm man's cruelty and insensitivity. But saying that we have every right to eat animals because we are superior is so hard. By this defination if some creature mutates and becomes more clever than us then we are fair game if they want to make sausages out of us.
I will let Jacob be a vegetarian, because I am a Libertarian.
I agree with W4llyB4nger, I grew up in the country on a small farm and the anthropomorphizing of animals always confused me.
You have to tell an urbanite that cattle in the wild do not die in their sleep after the tonight show. The last 20 minutes of their life they are almost always pulled down by predators, it is painful and perhaps scary. On a farm they are well looked after until they are killed quickly and in a humane fashion
yea but we all know that's not the reality of most farms. I'm a vegetarian and I made a video arguing that a farm life could theoretically be the best thing an animal could ask for. But if we are going to make them our food should they not be treated well and killed humanely? You seem to support that idea, yet I don't get the impression you take any action to help make that the reality.
@mellamosean Animals are not sentient but a bundle of instincts and should still be treated with respect. I believe that good progress has been made by Temple Grandin and others. Take a look at some youtube vids of her inventions and work.
I saw the movie about her. If I remember correctly, her work had to do with marching the cattle into the slaughterhouse. That is a very small aspect of the animals' lives. There is still the actual raising and slaughter of the cattle that are of concern.
Not sentient? You are now using a common definition of sentience. Is what you mean by sentience a self-concept? What do you you mean?
@mellamosean The cattle ive seen lived in fields and you called them in to eat grain after eating grass. I have to say I am not familiar with feed lots or other practices.
"...common definition of sentience" Usually when I use words they are the common definition so I don't have to explain them. lol
I don't think cattle are self aware. I want animals to live a life without pain but I would poke 10,000 bunnies in the eyes with a rusty nail if it would cure alzheimer's.
I am of the impression that most cattle don't have that much space. But, unfortunately, I have no statistics to throw at you.
I meant you're not* using a common definition. I have never fully understood exactly what people meant by self aware, or the relevance. Who gives a shit if something recognizes itself in the mirror? Why is that the criteria for the right to life?
10,000 bunnies? But I bet you wouldn't do that to one human baby...Pain is pain, is it not?
As far as health aspects, please see my video, "What is a healthy diet?" I never argued that animals deserve rights. But that they deserve consideration. Would I not be able to use the same "let's just leave each other alone" logic to argue for slavery? "Hey, if you don't want slaves, that's fine. But you have no right to tell me I can't have slaves." Would you agree that humans aggress against animals in order to eat them? Would this not be the opposite of "non-aggression?"
I never argued humans are superior to animals. Nor that they are equals. Only that we're different from animals in terms of responsibility. I understand that hunters hold a high regard toward getting a clean kill and minimizing the animals suffering as much as possible. But if you purchase a burger from Mcdonalds or meat from the grocery store, then you are being hypocritical, as the animals that that meat originated from were put through conditions that even hunters would find appalling.
@JacobSpinney This I agree with. I hunt and fish, and it's true, respect for the animal is something held in very high regard for hunters, and the treatment of many animals for food is bad. That however does not counter the libertarian veiw. Because it is about humans not animals, because animals are not the same as humans.
More free range animals are killed every day by mechanized farm equipment purposed for vegetable harvesting than livestock bred for consumption.
holyshitass777 1 week ago 2
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I am not saying that all people should become vegetarians, it is up to them. But humans are some of the most cruelest creatures around, napalm, war, slavery and torture. You just confirm man's cruelty and insensitivity. But saying that we have every right to eat animals because we are superior is so hard. By this defination if some creature mutates and becomes more clever than us then we are fair game if they want to make sausages out of us.
nivekvb 1 month ago
I will let Jacob be a vegetarian, because I am a Libertarian.
I agree with W4llyB4nger, I grew up in the country on a small farm and the anthropomorphizing of animals always confused me.
You have to tell an urbanite that cattle in the wild do not die in their sleep after the tonight show. The last 20 minutes of their life they are almost always pulled down by predators, it is painful and perhaps scary. On a farm they are well looked after until they are killed quickly and in a humane fashion
ronwandell 2 months ago
@ronwandell
yea but we all know that's not the reality of most farms. I'm a vegetarian and I made a video arguing that a farm life could theoretically be the best thing an animal could ask for. But if we are going to make them our food should they not be treated well and killed humanely? You seem to support that idea, yet I don't get the impression you take any action to help make that the reality.
mellamosean 2 months ago
@mellamosean Are you aware of Temple Grandin. An autistic genius and inventor.
youtube.com/watch?v=RoNErsJNPzw
ronwandell 2 months ago
@mellamosean Animals are not sentient but a bundle of instincts and should still be treated with respect. I believe that good progress has been made by Temple Grandin and others. Take a look at some youtube vids of her inventions and work.
ronwandell 2 months ago
@ronwandell
I saw the movie about her. If I remember correctly, her work had to do with marching the cattle into the slaughterhouse. That is a very small aspect of the animals' lives. There is still the actual raising and slaughter of the cattle that are of concern.
Not sentient? You are now using a common definition of sentience. Is what you mean by sentience a self-concept? What do you you mean?
mellamosean 2 months ago
@mellamosean The cattle ive seen lived in fields and you called them in to eat grain after eating grass. I have to say I am not familiar with feed lots or other practices.
"...common definition of sentience" Usually when I use words they are the common definition so I don't have to explain them. lol
I don't think cattle are self aware. I want animals to live a life without pain but I would poke 10,000 bunnies in the eyes with a rusty nail if it would cure alzheimer's.
ronwandell 2 months ago
@ronwandell
I am of the impression that most cattle don't have that much space. But, unfortunately, I have no statistics to throw at you.
I meant you're not* using a common definition. I have never fully understood exactly what people meant by self aware, or the relevance. Who gives a shit if something recognizes itself in the mirror? Why is that the criteria for the right to life?
10,000 bunnies? But I bet you wouldn't do that to one human baby...Pain is pain, is it not?
mellamosean 2 months ago
As far as health aspects, please see my video, "What is a healthy diet?" I never argued that animals deserve rights. But that they deserve consideration. Would I not be able to use the same "let's just leave each other alone" logic to argue for slavery? "Hey, if you don't want slaves, that's fine. But you have no right to tell me I can't have slaves." Would you agree that humans aggress against animals in order to eat them? Would this not be the opposite of "non-aggression?"
JacobSpinney 8 months ago
I never argued humans are superior to animals. Nor that they are equals. Only that we're different from animals in terms of responsibility. I understand that hunters hold a high regard toward getting a clean kill and minimizing the animals suffering as much as possible. But if you purchase a burger from Mcdonalds or meat from the grocery store, then you are being hypocritical, as the animals that that meat originated from were put through conditions that even hunters would find appalling.
JacobSpinney 8 months ago
@JacobSpinney This I agree with. I hunt and fish, and it's true, respect for the animal is something held in very high regard for hunters, and the treatment of many animals for food is bad. That however does not counter the libertarian veiw. Because it is about humans not animals, because animals are not the same as humans.
pcgamernum1 3 months ago