(Part 3 of 3) Gary Taubes Responds To His March 7, 2011 Appearance On 'The Dr. Oz Show'

[HuxleyWasRight]

TV people, like politicians, have agendas, they will always skewer things and get paid to do so.

[ram020178]

Gary - you are super. you are right. you will win.

[nbavlc]

I do believe that if you want to lose weight, you limit the amount of calories you eat, that I think is very basic. However, I do also believe Taubes on the fat topic

[AmyNVegas74]

@theUSER101 ok according to your calories in calories out I had a thermogenics test done and according to the test I expend almost 2800 calories a day just sitting and breathing and I eat less than 1600 calories a day so according to your calculations I should be anorexic not overweight right??? Calories in- calories out does not work when insulin is involved, Proof- go to video The Battle of the Diets: Is Anyone Winning (At Losing?) Study done by Stanford University.

[theUSER101]

OZ said it best, you are fundamentally wrong. No one gets fat because they eat carbohydrates, they get fat because they eat more calories that they expend. That is very basic physics that cannot be argued. 1000 calories of fat vs 1000 calories of carbs has the exact same out come, this has been studied to many times to count. Everyone is eating like Doctor OZ recommends? No they are over eating, its very simple. I hate Dr OZ, he's a quack but he's right about this for sure.

[livinlowcarbman]

@theUSER101 I'd love to see that study comparing an isocalric diet of all carbs vs. all fat. Email it to me.

[theUSER101]

@livinlowcarbman Have you ever taken a physics class or even went to school before....this is very basic stuff. I can't even believe you support something that contradicts the laws of thermodynamics. If there are isocaloric studies....it will have the same out come. Low-Fat vs Low carb vs this vs that have been studied, I'm not going to do your homework for you. It doesnt matter what macro nutrient you take in, it matter how many calories you take in. Everyone in science knows this besides him.

[livinlowcarbman]

@theUSER101 There's no need to insult my intelligence dude. I would say the all fat diet would perform better than the all carbohydrate diet if calories remained constant. I've done the homework and interviewed most of the best and brightest minds in the world of metabolic research and you're just plain wrong. It's not all about the calories...speaking of elementary thinking. Still waiting on your scientific evidence that proves an isocaloric diet of carbohydrates is the same as a diet of fat.

[theUSER101]

@livinlowcarbman You are so uneducated on the topic it's really hard to talk to you. Calories are all equal, it is basic physics. How can you learn about diet and exercise without even learning about thermodynamics. The fact that you say an all fat diet will out preform a all carb diet with the same caloric intake is insanely, impossibly ignorant! You don't need studies, thermodynamics is LAW! People don't get fat because of carbs, they get fat because of excess calories.

[livinlowcarbman]

@theUSER101 We'll just have to agree to disagree my friend. Open your mind and learn. There's more to this story than what you think you know.

[theUSER101]

@livinlowcarbman Open my mind to what? Magic and faith? I think I'll stick with reality and science. You really need to get an education and at least a basic understanding of what the hell a calorie is before you continue in nutrition. See ya.

[livinlowcarbman]

@theUSER101 Oi!

[theUSER101]

@Sythok Nothing in your comment was even close to scientific. Losing weight is easy however, one of the biggest problems in weight loss is people not tracking their calories correctly. If you look into meal frequency you will find that the majority of studies show no improvement of body comp when compared to say the standard 2 or 3 meals a day. However, you do see a HUGE difference in insulin. The more meals you eat, the lower your total insulin is throughout the day, but no change in body comp

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 you troll

[theUSER101]

@Sythok continued: According to your theory since insulin is reduced in EVERY meal frequency study you should almost ALWAYS see an improvement in body comp but you almost NEVER do. It all depends on the total kcals. Insulin is definitely a huge factor, no question, but only if you eat to many calories. In 2003 the Journal of American Medical Asso. showed that weight loss on low carb diets were principally associated with decreased caloric intake, not reduced carb intake. Conspiracy? I know I kno

[theUSER101]

@Sythok Personal testimony as to why calories in/out doesn't work...holds no weight. All the "hormonal dysfunction" makes no difference. It may make a difference as to how many calories your body burns, metabolism etc..but if you eat less than you burn you will lose weight. Why do you eat 6 small meals a day? That has no impact on weight loss even though it should according to your theory because insulin is reduced by 1/3 eating like that....but science says calories and the determaining factor.

[Sythok]

@theUSER101 I'm done, you just are a troll who likes to argue.

[theUSER101]

@Sythok Usually when the quacks here the word science.....they run away and start calling names. I guess it's time for an education QUACK QUACK...go watch the might ducks.

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 okay well if insulin has no effect on body comp then why does insulin increase muscle growth after anaerobic exericise

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr I'm not talking about muscle mass etc. I was more so talking about weight in general.

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 well since your so knowledgeable then you should realize that the function of insulin is to make cells more permeable to glucose so your blood sugar decreases quickly which explains the massive rush of quick energy carbohydrates give you. This also helps the repair of muscle cells. Which brings me to my ultimate point that is that insulin acts on fat cells the same as muscle cells it increases their mass quickly.

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr Listen, I posted this a while ago. The point I was making is that in order to lose weight, you simply eat less calories than you burn. That is a scientifically validated fat, not only in studies involving nutrition and weight loss but is a law of physics. I'm not saying that a bodybuilder can eat 6000 calories of snickers a day and gain lean muscle....I'm simply saying the over all body weight will be the same. If you disagree then take it up with Einstein.

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 okay well you failed to make any rebuttle. Taubes even covered this in one of his lectures yes the law of thermodynamics always applies but its far more complicated than that because the first law of thermodynamics doesnt tell you why a system gets bigger or smaller it just states the conidtions. If you apply the first law of thermodynamics to me typing right now in the same way you do to obesity you would deduce that im hitting the letter keys more times than the backspace button

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr Dr. Harriet Hall already debunked this quackery a while ago jeezus. You cannot say that LAWS apply and then say that they don't, that's all he is doing. Do you even know what the laws of thermodynamics is? It doesn't tell you why a system get bigger? WTF does that even mean? LMAO. It kinda does though considering it says it's because of HEAT(energy). It states the conditions? WTF? Dude, the first law of thermodynamics is very clear and tell you everything you need to know. Cont:

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 the first law of thermodyanmics does not fucking tell you why a change in the system is occuring it just tells you that if a system is getting bigger its taking in more energy if its getting smaller its taking in less of course that fucking applies but you dont understand hormones you fucktard. You have to know biochemistry to understand what effect what stimulus has on the body

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr You are just quacking like a retard and using ad hominem attacks, typical of a quack. You cannot say I love driving cars but then say I've never driving a car. That makes no sense, that's all youre doing quack. Retard, the system is taking in energy(heat), more energy than it exerts....so it fucking gets bigger. You're just quacking about hormones and shit STFU and get an education. "Because his hormones are fucked up, therefore physics applies differently" hahahahhahahhaa

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT HORMONES ARE????????

[bobdylan4evr]

its hormones that dictate whether calories are used for energy or anabolism this is basic basic nutrition science

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr No there is no science there, hints the reason that this guys views are so controversial. Even if I didn't know shit about nutrition or even what a calories was, it is rational to believe popular facts and science by leading scientists from leading schools like Harvard etc etc etc. PubMed, JISSN, thousands of PhD's all agree that calories in, calories out is all that matters? You're a conspiracy theorist.

[bobdylan4evr]

there is far more studies that show that a low carb diet where calories are not restricted out perform calorie restricted diet theres far more going on in the body than just energy balance how can you say in one sentence that you cant eat snickers all day and get muscular and in the other say that all calories are equal because if thats the case it doesnt matter wtf you eat you can eat according to you, you can eat 2000 calories of potatoe chips and thats equal to 2000 calories of broccoli

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr HAHA you are showing your ignorance. Yes, there are far more studies showing low carb diets out perform all of the others.....WTF is your point, have you never looked in to the WHY or do you only look at the title of the study? LMAO. They get skinnier on low carb diets because protein and fat fill you up more and they eat less calories jesus. Did you just ask me if 2000 calories was the same as 2000 calories???? YES wtf?

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 well there sir is where you are completley and flat out wrong all calories are not created equal

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr If a calorie and another calorie were different, they wouldn't be a fucking calorie...good lord. This is scientific fact conspiracy boy.

[bobdylan4evr]

calories from different nutrients are not used the same way in the body

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr You are quacking again! You cannot say, calories from different nutrients are not used the same, as some kind of argument. That is irrelevant, we are taking about energy intake.

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 no actually we're not talking about energy intake we're talking about fat accumulation

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr You are just quacking now. You don't even know the basics, literally the very basics, of diet. How can I can a conversation with someone who is fundamentally wrong about diet? You are a conspiracy theorist, I will not be able to convince you any different from your crazy uneducated dogma.

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 so its crazy to think about obesity as excess fat accumulation? are you fucking nuts. you are either the most bigoted person in the world or the best troll i have ever seen

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr You discredit 50 plus years of science, studies etc. You discredit not only the scientists but physicists like Einstein. You believe in a dogma that would in theory allow you to lose more weight walking on a treadmill than running, which we talked about earlier. You are in love with someone that is extremely controversial, and disregard all other fact to believe in his crazy theory. You don't even know the very fundamentals of nutrition....how can I talk to you?

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 i have no idea what your talking about nobody has been smearing albert einstein or the work of any other physicists and since your convinced modern nutrition (which you claim to know so much about but know nothing about biochemistry)i'd like to point your attention to the modern phenomena known as the obeseity epidemic

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr You telling me that there is an obesity epidemic and therefore Harvard, Stanford and just about every doctor on the planet is wrong...is completely fallacious and illogical. You just think conspiracy theories are attractive and you ignore facts.

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 i really have no idea what your talking about. your views seem to exclude almost everything people know about the body and nutrition like hormones and the glycemic which are not controversial. yes the laws of physics always apply nobody has said otherwise you dont understand that energy can be stored or used and depending on where you get that energy it is stored or used.

[bobdylan4evr]

@bobdylan4evr furthermore you have contradicted yourself several times. You said a bodybuilder couldnt gain lean muscle by eating 6000 calories worth of snickers. Yet you say all calories are used the same in the body and all macronutrients are the same. You also say that non calorie restriced low carbohydrate diets outperformed caloie restricted diets because the low carbers consumed less calories. Failing to realize the opposite group is on a low calorie diet

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr You are seriously so uneducated I can barley talk to you. I'm about to PM you Harvard articles and studies so that you can read the facts. You still havent answered? Are you implying that Harvard etc are wrong? WTF are you talking about these studies are flawless and have been peer reviewed by the scientific community. Haha you are such a quack. Calories are all that matters when it comes to weight loss or gain...FACT

[MichaelnChristine]

@theUSER101 Ok I'll jump in. If someone has insulin resistance and eats exactly 2000kcal of calories a day with 60% carb vs 60% fat...on which of those diets will he/she lose the most weight and see the greatest benefit to health? Isn't it true that a Type II diabetic with high insulin levels will store fat while the rest of their tissues atrophy and starve? That their muscle will actually waste....?

[theUSER101]

@MichaelnChristine Preexisting conditions are very complicated things, however, the same laws of psychics apply to even them. I'm not saying that a high carb diet is good, in fact I put my own clients on atkins style diets. However calories in, calories out is a model that cannot be questioned. We have so much science showing it to be true aside from the law of physics. I'm not saying calories in, calories out is a good model to advocate....it's the truth however...but slightly more complicated

[shimabuco]

@theUSER101 the "calories in, calories out" model can be questioned if fails to explains all cases. Yes, people who uses more energy than they eat will lose weight, but what about the people who gets less energy out than in but still loses weight. We all see that on people who go into the atkins like diet. If a model fails to explains all cases, considering diseases and all, then it's not a good model.

[theUSER101]

@shimabuco Calories in calories out is just a model, it doesn't address the right kind of foods...just weight loss. It cannot be questioned, it is just the way the universe works. Retards have tried questioning the laws of physics when it comes to dieting and have failed miserably. 

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 are you implying that someone who has their calories forcefully restriced would eat more than someone who eats freely? thats preposterous. an amateur like you cannot possibly comprehend the power of sciense!

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr LOL you just fail to look or care about the "sciense" at the end of the day I have PubMed, JISSN, Harvard, Stanford etc etc on my side and I can show the evidence. hhaa thats all that matters.

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 and thats why im typing so many words. It doesnt tell you that im trying to formulate an idea through words. The body works in the same way because of hormones. Depending on the type of food you eat you will trigger a different hormonal response which determines what to do with the calories from those nutrients. And the fact you realize that a bodybuilder cant eat 6000 calories of snickers a day and gain lean muscle should make you realize that both gaining and losing weight is

[theUSER101]

@bobdylan4evr If one guy eats a well balanced diet and the other eats snickers and they both have the same metabolism, one will be more muscular but both will of gained the same amount of weight. Some foods are more fattening than others because some foods are easier to eat than others. Harvard, Stanford etc etc all have articles and studies showing that CALORIES are ALL that matter. Do you really need me to show you? This is well know fact.

[bobdylan4evr]

@theUSER101 dependent on hormone control. There is a reason why we know some foods to be more fattening than others

[PairoftheSocks]

I think taubes should look into human migration patterns and herds of animals. It would really help silence the idiots who continue to claim that humans were mostly vegetarian.

[LauraInCali]

Thanks for posting this Jimmy. I was wondering how Gary felt about being ambushed by Dr. Oz.. Very interesting ~ Laura: )

[cathytress]

The segment on exercise was my favorite. LOVED the contrast of Gary lounging on the couch with Oz perched up on the exercise bike...LOL!!!