For christ sake,two times I lost my message because it's set to skip to joe bananamasso.
The MM prob sounds better in person because the audio is compressed and masks the upper mid spike/harsh attack of the stock tranny.MM uses vintage correct alloy and to my ears those vintage alloy OT's are so much better than modern trannies which sound harsh and fatigue the ear.
You know, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone complaining that the Carmen Ghia ever sounded "brittle". I have one and, and, if anything, it's pretty mellow. Truth be told, anyone buying a Dr. Z isn't likely to want to change that already dialed in tone.
I wonder if you could do a video on something that folks would more likely want to change. How about a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or some sort of Peavey?
You have hit upon one of the reasons why an amps tone can be improved. It may still yet be subjective but to quote a very famous custom amp builder who's amps most could not afford "The manufacturer's way is seldom the best way, but it is almost always the cheapest way." There are a lot of ways to change the tone of an amp. This was just an example of one. the tone is subjective yes. But, I have yet to find a commercial amp with 2 x EL84's that didn't cut corners to meet a price point.
There are amps that truly benefit from upgrades of all types.Usually the part in question wasn't the best to begin with and is usually a mass produced product.
Small builders like Z pick or make the part specifically to impart a sound. In this case someone should just purchase a 2xEL84 platfrom which sounds more to thier liking in the first place-since the market has many variations of this kind of amp already.
Thanks to everyone for comments. It's a personal taste thing. Everyone has a different taste or there would not be so many different amps and ways to mod them. As for a Blackheart amp. A fun little amp that does sound better with a MM OT. But then again that too is a subjective opinion.
Thanks for the comments. The primary Z was the same, which is another experiment in o how that effects the tone of the amp. The Ghia already has a conjunctive filter as part of it's design. I could have change the value of the cap but that would affect the overall sound. Another method is to use a very high cap like a 750pf in parallel with the plate resistor. The main point here was that transformers, like different brand guitar strings will change your tone. And yes Dr Z is a geat amp.
what was the primary Z on the stock OT and the MM OT? I'd be fairly certain that the Mercury has a higher primary Z which is giving it that little extra compression. you could have tried a conjunctive filter too before splashing out on an expensive OT. don't get me wrong, I love Mercury's stuff, but I would use them as a last resort when you're already dealing with a quality amp such as a Dr.Z. If the amp was something like an Epi VJ I'd just junk the stock OT & use MM without any hesitation.
Thanks for all the comments. they are appreciated. If this were a scientific experiment much greater controls and measurements would be used and certainly playback on an mp3 would not be ideal. The main point was just to attempt to show that changing transformers can change your tone just like changing tubes can. It is an area that is not often explored but can make a difference in the tone. Check out a stock Epi valve Jr. and upgrade the transformers and there is a nice little amp in there
Biased snake oil. Mine with smokes this and all i added was a simple choke transformer 4 henry will wake up this tone machine ! don't waste hundreds of dollars on new iron, Dr. Z already over builds these amps !
Biased snake oil. Mine with smokes this and all i added was a simple choke transformer 4 henry will wake up this tone machine ! don't waste hundreds of dollars on new iron, Dr. Z already over builds these amps !
I do find it interesting that you felt the need to mod your Dr Z with a choke as you were not satisfied with the sound as stock. Yes that would be another way to improve on the sound. I too use a choke on all my custom builds. Please let others know what brand choke you used. After all this is not about right or wrong but just trying to get the best tone. I am sure other will find your mod useful. thanks
Your indorsing Mercury magnetics. I used a 4 henry fender transformer. Brings the el84's to the high end of voltage, and far as plicky attack, It can be solved with value changes on caps and resisters. I think Mike over designed some of his transformer with too much iron matchless amp can be used as tube bass amps ! Z designs his for guitar players and some of them for strats and tele's. I love his Maz 18 as well as the z-28 also. How would you improve his new EZG-50 ?
Hey I have a Maz 18. I like it and haven't changed a thing. And yes, I like Mercury Magnetics and it sounds like you like Dr Z's. It's just personal taste. Some people like Seymour Duncun pickups some people like Fralin's. I happen to like Mercury's. HEY, I should ask Mercury for an endorsement. LOL HEY MERCURY are you listening. Give Bob a transformer endorsement. LOL. You sound like a great guy that has been around the block regarding tone. I gotta respect that.
I repect yours too, "tone" is so subjective area to pinpoint. I have lot's of fender's, tweed and black, ac30, maz 38,kt45,marshalls, 50's gibsons ect...They all have their tone sweet spots. and btw i love duncan's and fralins ! Love lindy's p-90's !
Way toooooooo cool my man. I think I have a case of amp envy. You should start your own cartage company. I am sure you could rent a few of those out for sessions and get some serious rental fees. Thanks again for taking the time to comment.
lol, I offered my 95' tv les paul special p-90's to my friend Steve Hunter for his tour euro tour with Lou Reed. But he was afraid it my get stolen. lol
I read an article on an scientific study comparing Digital Vs Analog sounds. The conclusions were that people preferred the analog signal. They also looked at brain activity and found that an analog signal "excited" a larger part of the brain. Another interesting discovery, which pertains to this demo, is the fact that people need time (30 seconds or so as I recall) to fully comprehend the difference in sound. I think this demo is too short, They sound pretty much identical to me.
I appreciate the feedback. Time was a factor but also converting to mp3 some of the detail is lost. But subtle differences can be heard. Of course the better quality one's computer speakers does help. Perhaps it is not the ultimate way to demonstrate the differences in transformer just as trying two different sets of acoustic guitar strings playing over the internet might not be as obvious as it would be in a recording studio. Thanks for the comments.
I have to disagree with that 30 seconds thing. I think it's easier the way it is in this demo with short clips side by side. What ruins it for me would be if there was pauses in between where he talked or something like that. To me the mercury transformers sound a little more full with less spikey frequencies, but maybe also a tiny bit more compressed.
It was not mere opinion, It was the results of a scientific controlled test. . The brain does not register a difference until a certain amount of time has passed.
In another test, the subjects were told they were listening to music which lacked in a certain frequency, They were told that frequency was going to be turned up and to signal when they heard it. They all signaled at different times even though the music never actually changed in frequency. Conclusion, We can't trust out own ears.
The problem with these tests is you can't know for sure that the test is reliable unless you know every detail - then you can judge for yourself. But I'm sure it helps in this demo that we actually KNOW when the change is, then we can listen more carefully to a smaller piece of audio. About that 2nd test, the difference could be very very subtle. And if they don't know what to listen for, it would be even harder. Depending on the test subjects I dont think they all would know what to listen for.
Yes but these were controlled scientific tests. Controlled being the key word. Protocols are put in place in controlled tests to deal with the variables and issues you rise. . It would make no sense to use people who had no idea what to listen for.. That would not be a controlled environment. At any rate, I wish I could figure out a way to search for these tests. They mean very little unless I can accurately reference them.
And if they don't know what to listen for maybe they will sort of overlisten - tricking themselves into believing they heard the difference. But again, it really depends on the details of the test. It might be true, but I know I can definitely hear a difference on this demo, and it's not so subtle that I'm wondering if I'm actually hearing it or not.
Just listened to it again (first time since yesterday) and it does seem like the difference becomes more apparent as the video progresses. On the cleanest setting the difference was more sublte than I remembered, but after watching it all and jumping back to the clean it was apparent again. But I think the 30 second thing is unclear. Does it have to be 30 seconds of the first sample, then 30 seconds of the different sample, or just 30 seconds of listening to the both samples in total, no idea
The test was published in "Home recording" magazine at least 10 years ago. Actually the test was referenced in an article the actual publication was elsewhere. I forget the details but one of the analogies used was one of comparing two paintings that at first glance look identical but start to reveal differences the longer you study them. In a similar fashion, it takes the brain a certain amount of time to distinguish between sounds that are at first seemingly identical.
The purpose was not to suggest everybody go and change transformers on their amps. Just to show different transformers sound different. You have to know what your doing to match the impedence to the tube because it will effect the sound. So in this particular case rather than go searching for an amp with a different tone to it. We just changed the transformer rather than mess with the Good Dr Z circuit. And yes we all owe a debt of gratitude to Ken Fisher for his designs and creativity.
Understood, I assumed you were suggesting that the Mercury was superior to the Ken Fisher design. I live in Nashville and have a Carmen Ghia. I also have a Blues Junior modded by Harvey Morril from World Music.. The Ghia I love as is, what do you think a new transformer would do for a Morrill modded Blues Junior? He changed the capaciters and added a variable mid sweep already.
I wrote Dr Z about this mod, he strongly discourages it and says it will void any warranty. By the way, you do know that the man who designed the stock transformers in Dr Z amps was Ken Fisher. Same man who designed Trainwreck amps!
For christ sake,two times I lost my message because it's set to skip to joe bananamasso.
The MM prob sounds better in person because the audio is compressed and masks the upper mid spike/harsh attack of the stock tranny.MM uses vintage correct alloy and to my ears those vintage alloy OT's are so much better than modern trannies which sound harsh and fatigue the ear.
bootlegapples 7 months ago in playlist guitar equipment and companies
You know, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone complaining that the Carmen Ghia ever sounded "brittle". I have one and, and, if anything, it's pretty mellow. Truth be told, anyone buying a Dr. Z isn't likely to want to change that already dialed in tone.
I wonder if you could do a video on something that folks would more likely want to change. How about a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or some sort of Peavey?
crazy4blues 1 year ago
You have hit upon one of the reasons why an amps tone can be improved. It may still yet be subjective but to quote a very famous custom amp builder who's amps most could not afford "The manufacturer's way is seldom the best way, but it is almost always the cheapest way." There are a lot of ways to change the tone of an amp. This was just an example of one. the tone is subjective yes. But, I have yet to find a commercial amp with 2 x EL84's that didn't cut corners to meet a price point.
mcmusicsound 1 year ago
If anything it's more about the circuit.Change the attack? identify the part of ther circuit dealing with that part of the signal envelope
bornburied 1 year ago
Is it ever an unpersonal taste thing??
There are amps that truly benefit from upgrades of all types.Usually the part in question wasn't the best to begin with and is usually a mass produced product.
Small builders like Z pick or make the part specifically to impart a sound. In this case someone should just purchase a 2xEL84 platfrom which sounds more to thier liking in the first place-since the market has many variations of this kind of amp already.
bornburied 2 years ago
I can hear the difference
I perfer the stock sound hands down. It's Zaite's sound.The changed transformer takes away from the character of the amp.
Buy a Blackheart amp and put a MM OT in it.
bornburied 2 years ago
Thanks to everyone for comments. It's a personal taste thing. Everyone has a different taste or there would not be so many different amps and ways to mod them. As for a Blackheart amp. A fun little amp that does sound better with a MM OT. But then again that too is a subjective opinion.
mcmusicsound 2 years ago
Thanks for the comments. The primary Z was the same, which is another experiment in o how that effects the tone of the amp. The Ghia already has a conjunctive filter as part of it's design. I could have change the value of the cap but that would affect the overall sound. Another method is to use a very high cap like a 750pf in parallel with the plate resistor. The main point here was that transformers, like different brand guitar strings will change your tone. And yes Dr Z is a geat amp.
mcmusicsound 2 years ago
what was the primary Z on the stock OT and the MM OT? I'd be fairly certain that the Mercury has a higher primary Z which is giving it that little extra compression. you could have tried a conjunctive filter too before splashing out on an expensive OT. don't get me wrong, I love Mercury's stuff, but I would use them as a last resort when you're already dealing with a quality amp such as a Dr.Z. If the amp was something like an Epi VJ I'd just junk the stock OT & use MM without any hesitation.
TeleCustom72 2 years ago
Thanks for all the comments. they are appreciated. If this were a scientific experiment much greater controls and measurements would be used and certainly playback on an mp3 would not be ideal. The main point was just to attempt to show that changing transformers can change your tone just like changing tubes can. It is an area that is not often explored but can make a difference in the tone. Check out a stock Epi valve Jr. and upgrade the transformers and there is a nice little amp in there
mcmusicsound 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Biased snake oil. Mine with smokes this and all i added was a simple choke transformer 4 henry will wake up this tone machine ! don't waste hundreds of dollars on new iron, Dr. Z already over builds these amps !
teleache 3 years ago
Biased snake oil. Mine with smokes this and all i added was a simple choke transformer 4 henry will wake up this tone machine ! don't waste hundreds of dollars on new iron, Dr. Z already over builds these amps !
teleache 3 years ago
I do find it interesting that you felt the need to mod your Dr Z with a choke as you were not satisfied with the sound as stock. Yes that would be another way to improve on the sound. I too use a choke on all my custom builds. Please let others know what brand choke you used. After all this is not about right or wrong but just trying to get the best tone. I am sure other will find your mod useful. thanks
mcmusicsound 3 years ago
Your indorsing Mercury magnetics. I used a 4 henry fender transformer. Brings the el84's to the high end of voltage, and far as plicky attack, It can be solved with value changes on caps and resisters. I think Mike over designed some of his transformer with too much iron matchless amp can be used as tube bass amps ! Z designs his for guitar players and some of them for strats and tele's. I love his Maz 18 as well as the z-28 also. How would you improve his new EZG-50 ?
teleache 3 years ago
Hey I have a Maz 18. I like it and haven't changed a thing. And yes, I like Mercury Magnetics and it sounds like you like Dr Z's. It's just personal taste. Some people like Seymour Duncun pickups some people like Fralin's. I happen to like Mercury's. HEY, I should ask Mercury for an endorsement. LOL HEY MERCURY are you listening. Give Bob a transformer endorsement. LOL. You sound like a great guy that has been around the block regarding tone. I gotta respect that.
Thanks again
mcmusicsound 3 years ago
I repect yours too, "tone" is so subjective area to pinpoint. I have lot's of fender's, tweed and black, ac30, maz 38,kt45,marshalls, 50's gibsons ect...They all have their tone sweet spots. and btw i love duncan's and fralins ! Love lindy's p-90's !
teleache 3 years ago
Way toooooooo cool my man. I think I have a case of amp envy. You should start your own cartage company. I am sure you could rent a few of those out for sessions and get some serious rental fees. Thanks again for taking the time to comment.
mcmusicsound 3 years ago
lol, I offered my 95' tv les paul special p-90's to my friend Steve Hunter for his tour euro tour with Lou Reed. But he was afraid it my get stolen. lol
teleache 3 years ago
I read an article on an scientific study comparing Digital Vs Analog sounds. The conclusions were that people preferred the analog signal. They also looked at brain activity and found that an analog signal "excited" a larger part of the brain. Another interesting discovery, which pertains to this demo, is the fact that people need time (30 seconds or so as I recall) to fully comprehend the difference in sound. I think this demo is too short, They sound pretty much identical to me.
Watthiman 3 years ago
I appreciate the feedback. Time was a factor but also converting to mp3 some of the detail is lost. But subtle differences can be heard. Of course the better quality one's computer speakers does help. Perhaps it is not the ultimate way to demonstrate the differences in transformer just as trying two different sets of acoustic guitar strings playing over the internet might not be as obvious as it would be in a recording studio. Thanks for the comments.
mcmusicsound 3 years ago
I have to disagree with that 30 seconds thing. I think it's easier the way it is in this demo with short clips side by side. What ruins it for me would be if there was pauses in between where he talked or something like that. To me the mercury transformers sound a little more full with less spikey frequencies, but maybe also a tiny bit more compressed.
thebna89 3 years ago
It was not mere opinion, It was the results of a scientific controlled test. . The brain does not register a difference until a certain amount of time has passed.
In another test, the subjects were told they were listening to music which lacked in a certain frequency, They were told that frequency was going to be turned up and to signal when they heard it. They all signaled at different times even though the music never actually changed in frequency. Conclusion, We can't trust out own ears.
Watthiman 3 years ago
The problem with these tests is you can't know for sure that the test is reliable unless you know every detail - then you can judge for yourself. But I'm sure it helps in this demo that we actually KNOW when the change is, then we can listen more carefully to a smaller piece of audio. About that 2nd test, the difference could be very very subtle. And if they don't know what to listen for, it would be even harder. Depending on the test subjects I dont think they all would know what to listen for.
thebna89 3 years ago
Yes but these were controlled scientific tests. Controlled being the key word. Protocols are put in place in controlled tests to deal with the variables and issues you rise. . It would make no sense to use people who had no idea what to listen for.. That would not be a controlled environment. At any rate, I wish I could figure out a way to search for these tests. They mean very little unless I can accurately reference them.
Watthiman 3 years ago
And if they don't know what to listen for maybe they will sort of overlisten - tricking themselves into believing they heard the difference. But again, it really depends on the details of the test. It might be true, but I know I can definitely hear a difference on this demo, and it's not so subtle that I'm wondering if I'm actually hearing it or not.
thebna89 3 years ago
Just listened to it again (first time since yesterday) and it does seem like the difference becomes more apparent as the video progresses. On the cleanest setting the difference was more sublte than I remembered, but after watching it all and jumping back to the clean it was apparent again. But I think the 30 second thing is unclear. Does it have to be 30 seconds of the first sample, then 30 seconds of the different sample, or just 30 seconds of listening to the both samples in total, no idea
thebna89 3 years ago
The test was published in "Home recording" magazine at least 10 years ago. Actually the test was referenced in an article the actual publication was elsewhere. I forget the details but one of the analogies used was one of comparing two paintings that at first glance look identical but start to reveal differences the longer you study them. In a similar fashion, it takes the brain a certain amount of time to distinguish between sounds that are at first seemingly identical.
Watthiman 3 years ago
The purpose was not to suggest everybody go and change transformers on their amps. Just to show different transformers sound different. You have to know what your doing to match the impedence to the tube because it will effect the sound. So in this particular case rather than go searching for an amp with a different tone to it. We just changed the transformer rather than mess with the Good Dr Z circuit. And yes we all owe a debt of gratitude to Ken Fisher for his designs and creativity.
mcmusicsound 3 years ago
Understood, I assumed you were suggesting that the Mercury was superior to the Ken Fisher design. I live in Nashville and have a Carmen Ghia. I also have a Blues Junior modded by Harvey Morril from World Music.. The Ghia I love as is, what do you think a new transformer would do for a Morrill modded Blues Junior? He changed the capaciters and added a variable mid sweep already.
Gtrmaestro 3 years ago
I wrote Dr Z about this mod, he strongly discourages it and says it will void any warranty. By the way, you do know that the man who designed the stock transformers in Dr Z amps was Ken Fisher. Same man who designed Trainwreck amps!
Gtrmaestro 3 years ago
Yep !!! I heard it ,good job.Was all 3 changed ,What about the mod with a rivera fandango?
creepingmoon 3 years ago