Hitler ordered the assassination of Pius XII

[Wazztheweasel]

lol people believing wikipedia now adays ...you guys are dumbasses.

Even if it real iformation wikipedia...you know everybody can add something and make stuff.

[kevinjjfr]

@Wazztheweasel Or you could try any one of the Jewish websites devoted to taking down this myth, (Jewish people place a high importance of gratitude)

Try goggling "THE GOOD SAMARITAN: JEWISH PRAISE FOR POPE PIUS XII Dimitri Cavalli"

[Wazztheweasel]

@kevinjjfr It could be treu..but what does this say?

[kevinjjfr]

@Wazztheweasel ...Well that atheist should really stop using this as a talking point against religion for one....

[meng1961]

Catholics do not believe in "Sola Fide" and "Sola Scriptura" which are unbiblical by the way. It is an invention of Protestant Reformers. Regarding the Pope, Jesus himself chose Peter to be the Rock where his Church will be founded. Protestants have their own differing interpretations. And where do we find the Pillar and Foundation of Truth? Is it the Bible or the Church? St Paul says - The Church.

[MsChrisdom]

ya he saved only the very rich jews who had money gold and property...

[peppedamp]

Bullshit

[CorieFaulkner]

Everyone here NEEDS to read 'The Myth of Hitler's Pope' by RABBI David G. Dalin. It is a refutation of myths perpetuated about Pius XII, the Jews and the holocaust, especially those of the book 'Hitler's Pope' (written by 'Catholic' John Cornwell in 1999). Please, please READ before you talk. Holy Mother of God, you know the Church is in an aweful state when an orthodox Jew defends her against the ignorant rants of one of her own 'children'. Ave Maria ora pro nobis! 

[Gatta9]

Lapide calculated that Pius XII and the Church he headed constituted the most successful Jewish aid organization in all of Europe during the war, dwarfing the Red Cross and all other aid societies.

[Gatta9]

After totaling the numbers of Jews saved in different areas and deducting the numbers saved by other causes, such as the praiseworthy efforts of some European Protestants, "The final number of Jewish lives in whose rescue the Catholic Church had been the instrument is thus at least 700,000 souls, but in all probability it is much closer to . . . 860,000."[21] This is a total larger than all other Jewish relief organizations in Europe, combined, were able to save.

[Gatta9]

In Three Popes and the Jews Lapide estimated the total number of Jews that had been spared as a result of Pius XII’s throwing the Church’s weight into the clandestine struggle to save them.

[Gatta9]

Finally, let us conclude with a quotation from Lapide’s record that was not given at the death of Pius XII, but was given after the War by the most well-known Jewish figure of this century, Albert Einstein: "Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."[23]

[Gatta9]

3-Other Jewish leaders chimed in also. Rabbi Safran of Bucharest, Romania, sent a note of thanks to the papal nuncio on April 7, 1944: "It is not easy for us to find the right words to express the warmth and consolation we experienced because of the concern of the supreme pontiff, who offered a large sum to relieve the sufferings of deported Jews. . . . The Jews of Romania will never forget these facts of historic importance."[18]

[Gatta9]

2-"The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion which form the very foundations of true civilization, are doing for us unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of divine Providence in this world."

[Gatta9]

1-The Pope’s efforts did not go unrecognized by Jewish authorities, even during the War. The Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem, Isaac Herzog,sent the Pope a personal message of thanks on February 28, 1944, in which he said:

[rooizilver]

Vatican has been infested with communists and freemasons. The Pope's are illegal anti-Pope's. The last legally chosen Pope was Cardinal Siri, who took the name of Gregory XVII. Lawfully and canonically elected in 1958, he was betrayed by French freemason bishops and communists, and forced to retire, on the spot. He has been the prisoner of the corrupt Vatican ever since that day, until the day of his death 2 may 1989. He was the only valid Catholic Pope after Pius XII.

[rooizilver]

Nonsense. Media are lies, and more lies these days. The only thing Hitler wanted to do was save the German economy from the British and Jewish grabbers, and fight Communism.

[MatuArts]

bunch of murders, they killed my people when they gave that nut ships to come here and steal. May the rot in the hell they believe in!

[MatuArts]

much of murders, they killed my people when they gave that nut ships to come here and steal. May the rot in the hell they believe in!

[bolshevikML]

Pius XII was a nazi, who helped Hitler with the holocaust, so it is hard to believe that Hitler wanted to kill him.

[Loyalbrox]

Is that some sort of Papist counter propaganda, trying to show there were tensions the Third Reich's leadership and the Vatican ? Well, judging by some of the comments on here it has worked.

Not that Nationalsocialists were the worst criminals in history but clearly the Vatican has always been keen to be best buddies with almost every tyrant there was and ever will be.

As for your 860000 Jews saved: Where is the evidence for that ? On Wikipedia ? After you've changed it ?

[19lfm12]

@Loyalbrox I have noticed that facts on Wiki seem to get changed when they conflict with the 'official Vatican story'. It is a constant battle to keep REAL facts online!

Even if the 860K spared is true, what about the millions of those murdered? Gleefully sent to their death by CATHOLIC Nazi collaborators in France, Hungary, Holland, Austria, Czech, Poland, Croatia?

Indeed the Vatican is a mockery of Christ, as they have enabled countless brutal regimes over many centuries.

[Loyalbrox]

@19lfm12

You have missed my point, as I've already stated, the Nationalsocialists were not the worst mass murderers in history - that "award" goes to Churchill's ally Stalin !

I am still waiting for proper and sufficient evidence, on the one hand for the so-called "Holocaust" and on the other hand for the 860 000 , apparently saved by the Pope !

[19lfm12]

@Loyalbrox 1) nobody in their right mind & with any shred of human decency would claim the Shoah never happened.

2) Stain's deeds were of Satan, to be sure.

3) at the same time, one who want a holistic comprehension of BOTH will come to see that the exact same 'forces' were behind BOTH horrors.

Look to the city of seven hills for the answer......

[DaCatholicCrusader]

GOD BLESS THE HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH!

[AFANARCHIST]

@DaCatholicCrusader LOL a fuckin crusader....now WHAT THE FUCK is wrong with u people O.O

[rooizilver]

@DaCatholicCrusader The only valid Pope after Pius XII was Gregory XVII (Cardinal Siri) who has been the prisoner of the Vatican during his 31 years of reign. John XXIII was an imposter, as were all the others after him.

[arniebarb123]

@DaCatholicCrusader im not trying to be rude but why dont catholics follow the bibles guidlines and not mans?for example why would u confess ur sins to a priest who is also a sinner when it says in the bible that Jesus is the median through God and man it didnt say a priest is between u Jesus and God......please explain if u can i never understood it

[DukeofUSA]

@arniebarb123 The priest is God's representative on Earth. I appreciate not simply preaching hate like MsChrisdom.

[arniebarb123]

@DukeofUSA where in the bible does it say the pope is God's representative on earth? 

[ub30f]

@arniebarb123 It doesn't. 

[ljmuncy09]

@arniebarb123 Please read James 15:16, John 20:22-23 Jesus Gave the Apostles, the Holy Spirit and He Told them to Go and forgive sins! as we know confession is necessary for forgiveness, because in 1 John 1:9 we are told that "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity. " As, Catholics we believe that Since the Apostles were given the command to forgive sins their successors were also endowed with this gift...HOpe this helps...

[arniebarb123]

@ljmuncy09 and it also says Jesus is the median between God and man.....it doesnt say confess ur sins to a priest and he will ask for forgiveness..i will read those verses but i think u miss understood what he was saying ...if sinners can forgive sins then why did Jesus die on the cross? ....sorry but i would never confess my sins to u and i hope u would do the same ...i personally dont think that the catholic church follows biblical teaching the bible says u shouldnt have statues catholics do

[arniebarb123]

@ljmuncy09 and why do catholics worship mary? obviously she is Jesus's mother but it says no where in the bible to worship her......and why do u guys have to say hail mary's to God?

[ljmuncy09]

@arniebarb123 Catholics do not worship mary we honor her as the Mother of our Savior Jesus Christ! The hail mary is composed from Sacred Scripture. The First part of the prayer comes from the salutation of the angel gabriel in Luke 1:28 The other comming from Luke 1:42 from the salutation of elizabeth to Mary. Finally, Mary herself said that all people should call her blessed in Luke 1:48. Peace

[arniebarb123]

@ljmuncy09 but why do u say hail mary when the priest tells u to say it when u leave confession?

[ljmuncy09]

@arniebarb123 It is a prayer that unites us to those prayers of Mary. It is a prayer in which we ask the Blessed Mother to pray for us.Not only this prayer but other prayers and acts of charity are ask from the priest.

[arniebarb123]

@ljmuncy09 ya but thats not biblical

[ljmuncy09]

@arniebarb123 sure it is I have already proven that the "Hail Mary" comes Directly from Scripture. TO say that it is "unbiblical" to quote prayers from scripture is to say that one mustn't say the psalms . or the Our Father etc etc...You are clearly mistaken. Blessings+ Btw Scripture alone is not what our faith is based on, but also Holy Tradition. Last time I checked Holy Mother Church had the final say on that....

[arniebarb123]

@ljmuncy09 i kno that in catholithism they go tradition and "man made" doctrine ....i can garuntee that it says nowhere in the bible to confess ur sins to a priest ( it states that Jesus is the median between God and man) it says nowhere in the bible that the pope is Gods representative on earth and that u need to pray to mary it states that she a blessed women and shes obviously very important cause God chose her to bear Jesus but catholics are mislead well according to the bible at least

[ljmuncy09]

@arniebarb123 My dear it seems that you have risen to the point of rudeness. Your voiced "opinion" is quite funny seeing as you have given NO Biblical answers to support your disbelief, despite my rubutal to answer your questions with concise biblical answers. I have proven time after time that Our faith is directly from Christ and the scriptures, and yet you havent provided any evidence of where your faith has originated from. We Are the First and ONLY Church of Christ. It seems you are mislead

[arniebarb123]

@ljmuncy09 im not trying to be rude..tell me where in the bible it says the pope is Gods representative on earth

[ljmuncy09]

@arniebarb123 Matthew 16:19 Jesus Saying to Peter," And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven." Therefore making him Chief among the apostles and relinquishing to him the athourity to bind and loose on heaven and whatever he declared on hearth was honored in heaven for it was already declared that heel itself wouldnt prevail

[ljmuncy09]

@arniebarb123 I think that you are searching for the Truth and You have found it! I encourage you to keep searching deeper into your own curiosity...Knock and it shall be opened unto you. Maybe you should go and talk to a priest at your local Church.. Explain to him your questions Im sure he will be happy to help you .

[wanker4761]

@DaCatholicCrusader Except that there IS no God. But if you're a good Christian you will pray for me. Ha.

[asebrookb]

@wanker4761 I will pray that your go to hell and get raped by a monkey

[CRUDSLUDGE]

he should be excommunicated post mortem, i mean hitler of course.

[DavidCasper]

@CRUDSLUDGE Excommunication is not a punishment inflicted by the Church. It is something a person does to themselves by leaving the boundaries of Church teaching; they are simply informed that they have excommunicated themselves by their bishop. One cannot be excommunicated post mortem - whatever they did to excommunicate themselves in life affected them in life.

[Tibly]

Hell will not prevail against it.

[cajtgost]

"According to the reconstruction of the events, the plot was being planned at the Reichs General Headquarters in Berlin at the end of July 1943."

"Three years later, admiral Canaris was executed for participating in Operation Walkyria, the failed plot to assassinate Hitler."

3 years later...hm...that would be July of 1946.?

Wasn't the war like all over then,with a Hitler commiting suicide like year ago?

[TenderTrap86]

Hence the term "executed". He was put on trial, after the Hitler's death and the fall of Nazism, like many others. Ever hear of the Neuremburg Trials?

[HammerofHeretics]

It wasn't three years later. Canaris was executed on April 9, 1945, right before the end of the war.

[bzhseat]

proove what you say

[ChoofMonster]

There is no doubt that Catholic institutions did save Jews, and that after 1943 the Pope openly opposed the Third Reich.

However, Pius XII is due for sainthood, and the Vatican's archives from that era will not be opened until 2014. Some of his actions were questionable, whether he was at fault remains to be seen.

[paxcoder]

That means 5 more years for you to promulgate that myth (and to hope), and then plenty of time to consider the 8th commandment, and where your trust lies.

(Sorry for me being harsh, I guess I quarrel a lot)

Peace be with you.

[ChoofMonster]

I'm not passing judgment until there is conclusive evidence; I am basing my understanding on the research I have done, and it's inconclusive thus far.

5 years is not a long time, but but until all of the facts are known it would be inappropriate to beatify Pius XII.

The Vatican apologized to the Jewish people for past atrocities in 1964 (Nostra Aetate) but we still don't know if Pius XII and Hitler colluded at any stage.

[paxcoder]

I just read Nostra Aetate. I always need to (re)read these things to be able disprove, and I'm not fond of it (btw it's 1965). In NA, the Church condemns persecution against Jews (or any other people) for any reason, including the fact that in the time of Jesus, their leadership sentenced Christ to death. It also says God holds them dear for the sake of their fathers.

There is no apology, because the Church didn't encouraged these persecutions. And NA certainly didn't say anything about Pius.

[ChoofMonster]

By "apology" I meant that Jews were no longer held accountable for the death of Jesus, even if it was inspired by their ancestors. Inquisitions and expulsions were done in the name of Catholicism without the express consent of the Vatican. Pius never overtly advocated genocide.

The final revision to NA was made in 1965, but there were several rejected versions prior to this. It was really an acknowledgment that other religions are entitled to co-exist with the "one true church".

[paxcoder]

Sure, only you have some strange definition of apology. "No longer" is also innacurate. Official Church doctrine never preached this, even if part of the people (and clergy) believed it to be true. (Luther as well :-P)

Ok, anyway. Peace be with you.

[AlexSpartan]

I though a person was innocent unless proven guilty not guilty until proven innocent. I mean I could say you are a terrorist and you would have to prove otherwise according to your logic. Except that Pius is dead so he can't defend himself.

[DavidCasper]

Every saint in history committed questionable actions and sins. That's not a factor in whether someone is a saint. Hitler himself could very well have become a saint if he had converted and repented immediately before his death (though evidence indicates he didn't). Sainthood does not hinge on whether someone did wrong in the world. If it did, none of us would ever get there.

[ChoofMonster]

Sainthood relies on the performance of a "miracle" as assessed by various Vatican officials and witnesses. The potential arguments against Pius XII becoming a saint are political and have nothing to do with miracles or theology at all.

If it can be proven that Pius XII colluded with Hitler's genocidal policies, he still wouldn't be disqualified from sainthood, but it would send a very mixed and troubling message to non-Catholics were that the case.

[19lfm12]

@ChoofMonster "If it can be proven that Pius XII colluded with Hitler's genocidal policies, he still wouldn't be disqualified from sainthood..."

Are you insane?

Moreover, the 'political arguments' are founded in facts of history. If it can be shown that he favored, much less colluded, with Naziism, then he is a scandal & should be denounced!

....just like Escriva, the demonic fascist.

[ChoofMonster]

@19lfm12 We are talking about an institution which still promotes misogyny and homophobia, and has a lot of political clout internationally. The Vatican does not listen to those it purports to represent, and is accountable only to itself.

[19lfm12]

@ChoofMonster I know.....all true, sadly.

[19lfm12]

@DavidCasper You are positing any possible favoring or colluding with Hitler on the part of Pius as if that were a mere trifle........Christ would have a very different opinion.

'Sainthood' hinges on an overall assessment of the person's life & deeds. More specifically, the coherence of the life with the Gospel. Too much incoherence - as with Pius - equals a scandalous person who did not overcome himself.

Thus, NOT a saint.

[DavidCasper]

@19lfm12 No, I'm not treating collusion with Hitler as a "mere trifle". I'm saying that even if he had done so, it could still be overridden by later actions of repentance and penance, which are strictly between Pius and God. Augustine provides a good example of a man whose repentance and penance, rather than sterling record, led to sainthood. One's entire life need not apply if a true, honest, repentant Confession is made before death.

[19lfm12]

@DavidCasper Wrong.

One's life must have a preponderance of Coherence with Christ & the Gospel. Pius's did not!

You are making it seem as if its OK to sin.....as long as you repent at the last moment. This is very wrong, as each day could be your last. He should have known enough spiritually to realize that God could Will he die at any moment.

Augustine was NO good example of anything!

Neither is Pacelli.

[FrancescaGianna]

Thank you for standing up for the truth.

[AlexSpartan]

Yeah, I have to. I really pissed me off when people that should be consider heroes and saints are portrayed as evil.

[ChoofMonster]

The key here is "July 1943". Germany was going to lose the war at that stage.

Until 1942, Pius XII was quite possibly a supporter of Hitler (he didn't support fascism but was an anti-communist). We won't know for sure until the Vatican opens its archives from the era.

[paxcoder]

What "archives" are closed?

[ChoofMonster]

Everything the Holy See does is recorded. Look up "Vatican Secret Archives" in WikiPedia - they open the records after 75 years, and there are millions of documents to transcribe, translate and interpret.

[Flauius]

almost everyone was a potential victim for Adolf H. Why not the Pontifex...?

[Urschleim]

because they were allies.

[AlexSpartan]

Dude do some research! This is totally untrue. He saved about 860,000 jews from Hitler. Please don't speak out of your ass! This pope is somehow viewed as evil based on a myth written by Cornwell that even he now believes is untrue. Check out the wikipedia page on Pius XII and look at the sources if you don't believe.