It may be slipping. My miata was like that. And although the clutch was worn a bit when i replaced it, it still had plenty of meat on it. The culprit was that my front trans seal wen bad and i was getting gear oil on the friction plate.
@faded2blak.... quit whining about them quoting lines from the fast and furious.... would your life matter more or less if they were or were not quoting it??
wow would you faggots please stop quoting fast and the furious its maybe funny the first time it gets so fucking annoying when every video you see when someone is shifting in-car somebody comments using that exact same goddamn phrase.
First of all this is not the way to check if your clutch is slipping and you are just showing off how your little v-tec engine accelerates. Now if you want to check if you clutch is slipping here is how to do it: be at around 50-60 mph in the HIGHEST gear and floor it, if you notice your rpms rising a lot faster than the speed then you know your clutch is slipping.
@kklein41291 ITS WAY MORE IN DEPTH THAN THAT. YOU CLUTCHINTO THE GEAR , CLUTCH OUT GO TO N ,THEN RECLUTCH AND GO TO YOUR NEXT GEAR 9 WETHER BE UP OR DOWN SHIFTS) . YOUR DISCRIPTION MEANS ANYONE DRIVING A CLUTCH IS DOUBLE CLUTCHIGN ALL THE TIME .
The clutch is fine. The wheels are slipping. OEM or not, you have to try pretty hard to burn a clutch in 30k miles, or just be completely oblivious to how to actually drive a stick. I taught myself how to drive a stick on my GSR and had 40k miles on it before I even started rev matching on downshifts, lol. Quite a few years later, it has over 80k miles and the clutch still grabs like a champ. I guess it's all moot if the clutch is contaminated with liquid or installed incorrectly.
dont listen to cordius hes stupid slight slip need to learn how to double clutch and might up grade to stage 2 street fighter clutch if gonna rev up to 9 grand lol
Drop the clutch at 9K to test a slipping clutch? Are you trying to make a clutch that's already weak even weaker? Jesus Christ please don't listen to this guy. If the clutch is slipping you're just gonna make it worse by dumping the clutch at redline.
I don't say to test a clutch by droping it at 9k, I only say that a clutch is supposed to take some abuse/stress without slipping.
oem clutch wear fast, even with little abuse ...
I run type r engine, I never even started the car with oem clutch even if it was in good shape, competition clutch stage 1.5 are pretty good for the money.
If you shift and hit the gas before the clutch is fully re-engaged, it will slip and continue to slip even after you fully release the clutch pedal. This is why timing is very important.
Anyways, your story is changing now that you're saying OEM clutches suck. My point is that his OEM clutch is most likely still in OEM working condition.
Thats not really a slipping clutch, at least from what the video is showing. Sure it could be a weak clutch. Your engine is just not revving down fast enough and your flooring it too soon.
WOW MAN! You got more problems then the clutch slipping(it is)! It's lacking performance, it miss fires, it sounds awful, you're dash looks like some used plastic panel from star-trek, you're tires seemed to have been cursed to never make any noise and I think you might be a faggot... Wait I wached it again we have conformation. Why don't you see if it works to make a video and just let people watching instead of being the village attention whore. See a counselor, but I'm sure it won't help you.
@Cordius That's awesome! I totally forgot about that movie. Makes you realize how bad it really was... "It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile,... winning is WiNNING!"
@Cordius Double clutching is nonsense... Todays car trannys ar synchronized so you don't have to double clutch. The synchronizer rings will match the different rpm's for you!
@MrLowAltitude Thanks for that. Double clutching is actually not nonsense. It's perfectly valid on some big rig trucks. However, in this particular comment I was actually making a Fast & Furious joke. I am aware how synchromesh gears work :)
@Cordius you watch to much fast and furious if you think real drivers ever consider double clutching. It's a term coined for large truck drives since some semi's and big trucks don't use synchro-mesh trannys and need the extra RPM's to get into gear.
@reddot44 Read my other comments before posting ignorant comments. What I posted was a direct quote from Fast and Furious, posted as a joke. Just about everyone else got it, but you missed the boat.
However, in the interest of completeness - REAL (read: professional race) drivers ALWAYS double clutch during performance driving. Heel-toe downshifting is, in essence, double clutching. Reducing drivetrain shock and lowering the chance of loss of traction. But yes, it's also a semi truck technique.
could be a lil bit of tire spin considering the power if youre dumping the clutch....if youre not dumping the clutch then.....i think youre clutch is probly fine
theres ways to tell if your clutch is still tight, i did a toyota truck, you put it in 3rd sitting still, and let the clutch out, if it dosent stall withen like 3 secs its loose... if it slipps for any longer it could be getting worn or needs adjusted... only 30k on it, stop doing full power 1-2nd and you would KNOW it wasent slipping... lol
I honestly believe it is slipping a tad bit. it isn't bad yet so i would go ahead an change it just to insure your flywheel doesn't get damaged. have it turned any otherwise you will have clutch chatter. the same as your brakes when you dont turn your rotors after new pads.
he most likely solved this problem but a good way to know if your clutch is slipping is to drive up hill in a high gear. Really loads up the clutch and if it slips then you know its cactus
try something : put you car in third, accelerate a bit, let the handbrake on and brutally remove your foot from the clutch. If your car stall, it's ok, if not, clutch's gone
sounds alot like its slipping i just changed a clutch in my acura was doin the same but it might have just gotten hot let it cool and try it again if it does it all the time its most likly time for a new clutch ....good luck man
Dude it's not slipping. Maybe tires spinning, cause mine does the same now an then, spinning tires. I have an 05(ap2), with 7,878 miles on it, so what does that tell ya?? "Not Slipping"
That's not a clutch slip. A clutch slip is when the RPM shoots to redline and the car doesn't go foward and this happens on acceleration not when shifting.
Update: The clutch is NOT slipping. When I did the video, temperature was in the 30s. Now that were in the 60s and 70s, it's no longer doing the rev-hang. Apparently I was spinning the tires.
@Kawasakiforlife7 The tires could absolutely be slipping at 45 MPH. Seems like he dumped the clutch before getting on the throttle, causing the car to lose it's traction and then got on the gas at just the right time.
Sure sounds like it. That's what happened to my Protege before the clutch went on it. Before I knew it, I was driving down the interstate with no power to the wheels. NOT fun, get a new clutch.
yes thats slip. you can either keep not shift as hard, or keep doing it until it fails. Not alot of slip, but still more than it should! 30k and a new clutch is pretty low! Whatcha been doing ;) Oh and you need gas :D
i have a 2000 S and yeah, right at the end of the shift point it sounded like it slipped a little, but, not much. If it does more, than it is the drow-out bearing and you mind-as well just get a new clutch kit. I recommend ACT STG 2 or EXEDY as well. good call!
i dont think its slipping, but maybe warn or just a normal clutch. if it was slipping car would go straight to redline and car wouldnt move much( depening how bad it is ) this just looks like it could be a normal clutch which doesnt grip as much as a paddle clutch etc.
yup, i installed a f1 racing clutch stg2 from ebay, HORRRIBLE, dont buy that shit. i really regret buying that. buy ACT STG 2 OR EXEDY. s2000 needs the good shit.
well, the f1 works great under normal driving conditions, but when u wanna gunn it, it will start slippin ,Especially in vtec.
It may be slipping. My miata was like that. And although the clutch was worn a bit when i replaced it, it still had plenty of meat on it. The culprit was that my front trans seal wen bad and i was getting gear oil on the friction plate.
evodrifter2145 1 month ago
:03 seconds, horrible.
aznstar 2 months ago
yes either that or your speedos lagging
jakecooperification 2 months ago
Mrjdmcoupe said it best ;)
fusion645 3 months ago
if it was a slipping clutch, u an tell even daily driving some times ,
MrJdmcoupe 4 months ago
naw bro ur spinning second as u can tell going intp third it doesnt do it.
MrJdmcoupe 4 months ago
@faded2blak.... quit whining about them quoting lines from the fast and furious.... would your life matter more or less if they were or were not quoting it??
TFossett 5 months ago
Ur clutch will keep on slipping, slipping... slipping ....into the future.
brbn93 6 months ago
chill out dog, hes just slingin parts for harry
rayj3999 6 months ago
It's the delay valve in the clutch master cylinder. You can remove it. There's DIY's all over the place.
ClintTrawick 6 months ago
wow would you faggots please stop quoting fast and the furious its maybe funny the first time it gets so fucking annoying when every video you see when someone is shifting in-car somebody comments using that exact same goddamn phrase.
faded2blak 7 months ago
no the clutch is not slipping...but probably will soon
faded2blak 7 months ago
First of all this is not the way to check if your clutch is slipping and you are just showing off how your little v-tec engine accelerates. Now if you want to check if you clutch is slipping here is how to do it: be at around 50-60 mph in the HIGHEST gear and floor it, if you notice your rpms rising a lot faster than the speed then you know your clutch is slipping.
Plemnik16x 9 months ago
no your clutch is not slipping............ your vtec just kicked in yo! lol
281537 10 months ago 3
He's Got 100,000 grand in that thing!
Coopdogg360 10 months ago
Ya thats a slight slip there.
TVdinnerFTW 1 year ago
now me and the mad scientist gotta rip apart the block....
Thriced2286 1 year ago
42 to 54 in a split second XD
matthewrockslol22 1 year ago
for those you you who dont know what double clutching in that is where you clutch into a gear and clutch out....
kklein41291 1 year ago
@kklein41291 ITS WAY MORE IN DEPTH THAN THAT. YOU CLUTCHINTO THE GEAR , CLUTCH OUT GO TO N ,THEN RECLUTCH AND GO TO YOUR NEXT GEAR 9 WETHER BE UP OR DOWN SHIFTS) . YOUR DISCRIPTION MEANS ANYONE DRIVING A CLUTCH IS DOUBLE CLUTCHIGN ALL THE TIME .
twistymcslide 1 year ago
Double clutching is for faggots.
CrustyDwart 1 year ago 10
@CrustyDwart or for lorry drivers
WislaKrakow24 1 year ago
@CrustyDwart its more efficient and better for the engine
NDKarma1 2 months ago
@CrustyDwart only when upshifting...
SprntrlDeathNinja 1 month ago
The clutch is fine. The wheels are slipping. OEM or not, you have to try pretty hard to burn a clutch in 30k miles, or just be completely oblivious to how to actually drive a stick. I taught myself how to drive a stick on my GSR and had 40k miles on it before I even started rev matching on downshifts, lol. Quite a few years later, it has over 80k miles and the clutch still grabs like a champ. I guess it's all moot if the clutch is contaminated with liquid or installed incorrectly.
lovesthebass 1 year ago
check your fluid or have a shop look at it
omgfroobynoobs 1 year ago
I dont understand the clutch slow dropping trend, sounds horrible, and kills your clutch soon.
Always wait till the revs get down, or dump it hard.
Why cant we have brakepad durability, and a cooled flywheel+pressure plate?
You could be slipping it all day and all it would do is wear out evenly, but not get destroyed in one bad takeoff :D
I would be glad to have a 100 000km clutch that takes anything rather than a 300 000kms that needs to be cared like a baby..
eamh2002 1 year ago
Omg... *ggggg* granny shifting... not wondering your clutch is at the end...
No sorry, im jokin:
Either you leave the clutch pedal too slow or your clutch is already slipping
ZorroHGT 1 year ago
yap, your clutch just said bye bye...
payam404 1 year ago
dont listen to cordius hes stupid slight slip need to learn how to double clutch and might up grade to stage 2 street fighter clutch if gonna rev up to 9 grand lol
pipersdaddy1 1 year ago
maybe if you didnt drive your car at 8-9 thousand rpm's you wouldnt have this problem.
JTyler52 1 year ago
@JTyler52 whats the point in having a car that revs that high if you dont use those rpms?
trendkill777 1 year ago
It is slipping, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it. My S2000 would do the same if I got on the gas too quickly.
vincent7777xd 2 years ago
@vincent7777xd
It's not ''normal'' that a clutch slip a lil bit whatever your doing with the car.
Dump the clutch at 9K, the only thing that is supposed to slip is the tire to the ground.
Anywaym oem clutch suck, get good replacement quality and you will be SO MUCH happy of it.
And no, don't get an overkill clutch setup, you don't need 3 puck spring less clutch kit ...
Untengijutsu 2 years ago
Drop the clutch at 9K to test a slipping clutch? Are you trying to make a clutch that's already weak even weaker? Jesus Christ please don't listen to this guy. If the clutch is slipping you're just gonna make it worse by dumping the clutch at redline.
PlatinumRacing 1 year ago 2
I don't say to test a clutch by droping it at 9k, I only say that a clutch is supposed to take some abuse/stress without slipping.
oem clutch wear fast, even with little abuse ...
I run type r engine, I never even started the car with oem clutch even if it was in good shape, competition clutch stage 1.5 are pretty good for the money.
Untengijutsu 1 year ago
If you shift and hit the gas before the clutch is fully re-engaged, it will slip and continue to slip even after you fully release the clutch pedal. This is why timing is very important.
Anyways, your story is changing now that you're saying OEM clutches suck. My point is that his OEM clutch is most likely still in OEM working condition.
vincent7777xd 1 year ago
Thats not really a slipping clutch, at least from what the video is showing. Sure it could be a weak clutch. Your engine is just not revving down fast enough and your flooring it too soon.
ofnarcr 2 years ago
this is the best example of a slipping clutch.
computer188 2 years ago
WOW MAN! You got more problems then the clutch slipping(it is)! It's lacking performance, it miss fires, it sounds awful, you're dash looks like some used plastic panel from star-trek, you're tires seemed to have been cursed to never make any noise and I think you might be a faggot... Wait I wached it again we have conformation. Why don't you see if it works to make a video and just let people watching instead of being the village attention whore. See a counselor, but I'm sure it won't help you.
elradiuzi 2 years ago
no your clutch isnt slipping wanna see a slipping clutch and tell me?
haroldheard 2 years ago
nope your fine...just chirped second for a bit
rb26xs14 2 years ago
ZOMGGG VTEC!
Corey2800C3 2 years ago
Look at you granny shifting, not double clutching like you should. Be careful or you'll blow the welds on the intake.
Cordius 2 years ago 90
I knew I was gonna see a F&F Comment somewhere tonight. lol.
Poncho4NCVox 2 years ago 2
woooo, someone can quote fast and the furious
marlonius05 2 years ago
That was the joke, bud.
Furok 2 years ago
@Cordius
my liege *bows*
Paiste402 2 years ago
@Cordius double clutching ? why would u need to ?
trendkill777 1 year ago
@trendkill777 Fast and Furious joke.
Cordius 1 year ago
@Cordius hahahaha when u hear somebody else say it.. you realize how corny it actually sounds.
spyderhex 1 year ago
@Cordius That's awesome! I totally forgot about that movie. Makes you realize how bad it really was... "It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile,... winning is WiNNING!"
TheJmach1 1 year ago
@Cordius hahahhaha couldnt say it any better ehahaha
ls0722 1 year ago
@Cordius Blow the welds on the intake ???
deancarr10 1 year ago
@deancarr10 fast and the furious quote...
kpgpwi64 1 year ago
@deancarr10
:-D you get it, me too.lol
R416 1 year ago
@Cordius Double clutching is nonsense... Todays car trannys ar synchronized so you don't have to double clutch. The synchronizer rings will match the different rpm's for you!
MrLowAltitude 1 year ago
@MrLowAltitude Thanks for that. Double clutching is actually not nonsense. It's perfectly valid on some big rig trucks. However, in this particular comment I was actually making a Fast & Furious joke. I am aware how synchromesh gears work :)
Cordius 1 year ago
@Cordius I've never seen Fast & Furious in english... I dodn't know this one, sorry!
I know that you have to double clutch some trucks or tractors, that's why I wrote: "Todays car trannys..." ;)
MrLowAltitude 1 year ago
@MrLowAltitude Ah. You should. It's one of the 2000s all time great car comedies.
rjhall90 1 year ago
@Cordius oh yeah fast and furious reference FTW
unigamehead 1 year ago
@Cordius are you even supposed to double clutch when up shifting
GrandpaChink 10 months ago 3
@GrandpaChink No sir, never.
Cordius 10 months ago
@Cordius hehe
GrandpaChink 10 months ago
@GrandpaChink You can in big ass trucks but thats about it
REDROTA94 9 months ago
@Cordius you watch to much fast and furious if you think real drivers ever consider double clutching. It's a term coined for large truck drives since some semi's and big trucks don't use synchro-mesh trannys and need the extra RPM's to get into gear.
reddot44 8 months ago
@reddot44 Read my other comments before posting ignorant comments. What I posted was a direct quote from Fast and Furious, posted as a joke. Just about everyone else got it, but you missed the boat.
However, in the interest of completeness - REAL (read: professional race) drivers ALWAYS double clutch during performance driving. Heel-toe downshifting is, in essence, double clutching. Reducing drivetrain shock and lowering the chance of loss of traction. But yes, it's also a semi truck technique.
Cordius 8 months ago
@Cordius LMFAO
MsSnarler 3 months ago
my personal opinion, because i own a ap1.. yes it is slipping just a little
dwiggs77 2 years ago
88 MPH!!!!!!!MARTY!!!
ipete6 2 years ago 3
haha back to the future is the best
sweetaction69 2 years ago
thats wheel spin going into 2nd it sounds good from what i can hear
AFinRoo 2 years ago 2
its fine
oohootenGSR 2 years ago
YES IT IS A LOT CUS A S2000 IS WAY FASTER
joel8A8A 2 years ago 2
ye for a split second
Dh4r0ks5tr 2 years ago
it just sounds like you chirped 2nd
andrewhakim 2 years ago
nahh most Honda's respond like that its cuz they have no torque its like the car just dies
BlackMk2Jetta 2 years ago
nahh its not slipping. if any MAYBE a tiny little bit. thats just the censer being a lil slow on the pickup.
nekrofere 2 years ago
dont think so, if any little
ytubeturk 2 years ago
i believe it is slipping very slightly
BONG475 2 years ago 2
could be a lil bit of tire spin considering the power if youre dumping the clutch....if youre not dumping the clutch then.....i think youre clutch is probly fine
submitaweasel 2 years ago
"granny shiftin'...not double clutchin' like ya should"
FenderpunkR 2 years ago 36
sounds like somebody watches fast and the furious a little too much....
tuner8787 2 years ago
Double clutching is for classic cars without syncros. Do some research.
jacobpockros 2 years ago 2
yes
DoubleM5513 2 years ago
theres ways to tell if your clutch is still tight, i did a toyota truck, you put it in 3rd sitting still, and let the clutch out, if it dosent stall withen like 3 secs its loose... if it slipps for any longer it could be getting worn or needs adjusted... only 30k on it, stop doing full power 1-2nd and you would KNOW it wasent slipping... lol
Synic08 2 years ago
I honestly believe it is slipping a tad bit. it isn't bad yet so i would go ahead an change it just to insure your flywheel doesn't get damaged. have it turned any otherwise you will have clutch chatter. the same as your brakes when you dont turn your rotors after new pads.
jakeluvsmel 3 years ago
NO your clutch is fine.
the problem is you shift like a granny. LOL
mchs48 3 years ago 5
ull know for sure if ur clutch is slipping when.. ur rpm revs when u accelerate but the mph isn't going anywhere
bayberz10 3 years ago 2
he most likely solved this problem but a good way to know if your clutch is slipping is to drive up hill in a high gear. Really loads up the clutch and if it slips then you know its cactus
BLU747 3 years ago
Or you can just put your hand brake (park brake / e-brake) on put the car in 5th or 6th gear, let the clutch out.
If the engine doesn't stall, then you have a slipping clutch my friend.
Adamw5433 3 years ago 3
does this go for s200 only ? or in general?
hanstaILL 3 years ago
It'll work on any manual car.
Adamw5433 3 years ago
try something : put you car in third, accelerate a bit, let the handbrake on and brutally remove your foot from the clutch. If your car stall, it's ok, if not, clutch's gone
ggaudin1 3 years ago
sounds alot like its slipping i just changed a clutch in my acura was doin the same but it might have just gotten hot let it cool and try it again if it does it all the time its most likly time for a new clutch ....good luck man
ACURAONLY11 3 years ago
do u have a tl from like 04 i had the same problems but luckily the replaced the whole tranny for free
cerwinvegafan 3 years ago
either your tires are spinning or if they are not then you clutch is slipping but good luck
holdmeister 3 years ago
the tires are most likely spinning. my00 s2k does that almost every time i shift from first to second at 9k rpm.
djblyss 3 years ago
its slipping
jayguy173 3 years ago
Dude it's not slipping. Maybe tires spinning, cause mine does the same now an then, spinning tires. I have an 05(ap2), with 7,878 miles on it, so what does that tell ya?? "Not Slipping"
mrgi85 3 years ago 2
nope thats no clutch slipping
dangerousdmo 3 years ago
sounds like identical to a toyota corolla xrs 1.8L vvIt-li
toyotacooper 3 years ago
Damn, how high do these car rev?
dan7055 3 years ago
the s2000 has two motors a 2.0 (i think) witch redlines a 8500 rpm and a 2.2 (i think) witch redlines at 8000 rpm
240sxrb25dett 3 years ago
the 2.0 redlines at 9000 and the 2.2 does it a 8200
srfns 3 years ago
The 2.0 actually redlines at 9200.
scorpiosbite 3 years ago
That's not a clutch slip. A clutch slip is when the RPM shoots to redline and the car doesn't go foward and this happens on acceleration not when shifting.
JsS2K 3 years ago 2
lol the guy is freeking out.. (i wud have)
UNiqEz 3 years ago
Update: The clutch is NOT slipping. When I did the video, temperature was in the 30s. Now that were in the 60s and 70s, it's no longer doing the rev-hang. Apparently I was spinning the tires.
lgyeresi 3 years ago
your either hanging on the cluth too long- or spining your tires. either way, your not shifting properly and/or giving to much gas
Winjury 3 years ago 2
@lgyeresi lol
xXMudkipzXx 1 year ago
@lgyeresi well yeah when the temperature goes down so does the tires ability to grab traction
Rsx2OO9 1 year ago
@lgyeresi haha no you werent spinning the tires. not at 45 in sn s2000 ya werent
Kawasakiforlife7 1 year ago
@Kawasakiforlife7 The tires could absolutely be slipping at 45 MPH. Seems like he dumped the clutch before getting on the throttle, causing the car to lose it's traction and then got on the gas at just the right time.
rjhall90 1 year ago
@rjhall90 it doesnt have much power, its a s2000
Kawasakiforlife7 1 year ago
Sure sounds like it. That's what happened to my Protege before the clutch went on it. Before I knew it, I was driving down the interstate with no power to the wheels. NOT fun, get a new clutch.
Shrike2415 3 years ago
it definitely slips
and why are you driving like that when you have basically no gas??
DDysfunction 3 years ago
slippppppp... rrrrrrVTEC RRRRRRRRR(slips) RRRrrrrRRRRRRRR
AnteUpSon 3 years ago
yes thats slip. you can either keep not shift as hard, or keep doing it until it fails. Not alot of slip, but still more than it should! 30k and a new clutch is pretty low! Whatcha been doing ;) Oh and you need gas :D
SoulCoughing30 4 years ago
No much, wouldn't bother replacing it yet, only if it keeps on getting worse.
KingScott95 4 years ago
i have a 2000 S and yeah, right at the end of the shift point it sounded like it slipped a little, but, not much. If it does more, than it is the drow-out bearing and you mind-as well just get a new clutch kit. I recommend ACT STG 2 or EXEDY as well. good call!
crewchief961 4 years ago
its not slipping its just...VTEC BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
yes that is slipping
sqnshl 4 years ago 2
i have a 11 second gtir and went a bit cheap on my clutch. only a heavy duty ceramic button. and when i git 22psi clutch slips from 5k onwords.
shauncrx 4 years ago
i dont think its slipping, but maybe warn or just a normal clutch. if it was slipping car would go straight to redline and car wouldnt move much( depening how bad it is ) this just looks like it could be a normal clutch which doesnt grip as much as a paddle clutch etc.
shauncrx 4 years ago
i hav a supercharged s2000 and my clutch slips like crazy when i floor it and it hits vtec. im hoping to get the new one soon :)
caslas2000 4 years ago
yup, i installed a f1 racing clutch stg2 from ebay, HORRRIBLE, dont buy that shit. i really regret buying that. buy ACT STG 2 OR EXEDY. s2000 needs the good shit.
well, the f1 works great under normal driving conditions, but when u wanna gunn it, it will start slippin ,Especially in vtec.
monkeys2sale 4 years ago
yup that is for sure clutch slippage.
poisonspider 4 years ago
Sounds like it. I suspected the same thing in mine but after a few weeks of driving I realised that it comes down to driving technique.
Perhaps a little less throttle in between changing gears and release the clutch faster!
gmh1206 4 years ago