Um... you know she did have a body double for some of the moves right? Sarah Lane. Unfortunatley after the oscar Sarah said that she did most of the dancing where Natalie and her people say that she did most of it.
well said @thereddeath1100 in order for it to be believable, natalie did need to know some sort of ballet, but she didn't win an oscar for being a dancer...but an ACTRESS a great one at that. What would have been the point for a "real" ballet dancer to "play" nina, if she can't deliver artistically (and i mean in terms of acting)..her basic knowledge of ballet, gave her credit yes, but she won the award for her acting performance..nuff said
hey miss nathalie porter, my name is Ivar Vigriynskijv and I live in south Russia, i want to marry you porter, if you see this please respond please, im van of youre big fans
i had everything happening in my life untill that bitch came along and distracted, i was going to attend ku as a full time student till that bitch got in the way oppressed me further a long a one way delusional street
Ballet for 10 years thats 2 more than me. 8 years. I had quit due to not being moved up, the teacher had said my legs were not strong enough for pointe. In the class she kept me in, the dance was too easy! I got bored and tired of the class because there really wasn't anything that was challenging or my level so I quit.
she won the oscar cause mental ill characters usually do. I don't think she is so great, she has the same constipated faces movie after movie, is that acting?
@Lakkauser Maybe mental ill characters are really a challenge you cannot see. I wonder if you understand what being mental ill really means. Nobody gave her an Oscar for being great, not even for being "good actress" (whatever that implies): she won it because she did her best in a single character. And I mean the best. Get over it. And yes, her constipated faces are part of her characters. Did you notice about everything else than that? In films there's much more than what you see on screen.
@thereddeath1100 So it's ok for them to lie?People are changing the subject in question in order to defend Portman just because she's a Hollywood actress an then more popular.Natalie dancing "skills" were shamely used as Oscar campaign with them saying she did 90% of her dancing and she went along with that.
I'm a professional ballerina with the San Francisco ballet, and I truly believe that Sarah did most of the dancing. I've worked my ass off to be able to be where I am now, and I know for a FACT that Natalie, although a great actress, did NOT do most of the dancing.
Why the hell is everyone talking about Sarah on this video? This one has nothing to do with the dancing controversy. This woman is Mary Helen Bowers who taught Natalie, not Sarah Lane who was angry- or doesn't anyone read anymore?
@phynixchen Not too many films requiring the services of a professional ballerina are made these days! She probably has a more cynical view of LaLa Land now, at any rate, which is no bad thing!
@repn87 Not wide of the mark there! Now Big Brother's Thought Police aka lemming-like NP fans wil be baying for our blood - again. Fancy having any opinion different to that of LaLa Land's, especially an opinion based on knowledge of an art form that takes years of dedication, blood, sweat & tears to make the grade, if then! Any crap actor with a pretty face can have a very successful working life in films, but crap ballet dancers don't get ANY work! How dare we NOT be deluded morons? lol
@repn87 And they couldn't even cover the Black Swan's ass in black net! Can't see the similarity to NP's BS 'body' and that of Murpyh, Nunez, Rojo etc etc, can you?! lol
It was a movie (I think it was great movie) and Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis were amazing in it! Their bodies, faces and acting skills made that movie so why take it away from them? It's a different art form with a different audience. I'm sure the dance community is fully aware who made the moves.
@enteecee Ballet audience like myself go to movies too. And of course ballet community knows she cannot eve stand on her parallel flat feet looking like a ballet dancer, but we don't know the others to think all it is necessary to dance ballet is a pretty face looking at the camera either. People may stop funding ballet schools thinking we are all wasting our time there for 10 years.
They needed a good actress, plus an actress that brings people to the cinema because too many think that ballet is boring, that's it. The film is more about Carl Gustav Jung's psychological theories than ballet though, and the watcher has to accept that... I was disappointed from the artistic point of view, but it's the same with films like Matrix where actors aren't actual martial artists... :(
her dance double said the only part of the body that wasn't her was her legs but Natalie did the upper body and i think she did really good it was totally believable...i love this movie
Ballet sucks. It's a stupid sport. I loved the movie though, not because of the dancing I could care less about that. I watched it because of the exquisite acting done. The acting, NOT the dancing is what made the movie so great. Also, in nearly EVERY single film EVER made there is doubles. For stunts, talents, etc. My point is that it's a MOVIE if you want to critique ballet the go to a damn recital.
@nothere1369 Right! Funny how DA/NP thought the dance elements WERE important and by implication fairly easily acquired in no time at all, hence the b***s**t intelligence-insulting hype. Any film with delusions of grandeur deserves the flack it gets if the star is clearly NOT up to another art for contained in the film, however willing the star is. Not enough cgi ,imo!! What is also funny is how film fans assume ballet fans cannot be film fans!
@nothere1369 I'm a gymnast actually, so trust me I've actually had to do ballet before. I stand by my statement. Also, my sport takes just as much time and dedication if not more than ballet.
The movie was an average movie for fuck sake, I don't get the whole controversies. SHe acted fine, the illusion of ballet was created fine (for non ballet experts like me at least), but eh movie was pretty weak.
@MaghoxFr I bet you won't get hammered for your opinion of the movie as a whole, unlike film fans who also are ballet fans/ex dancers. We call crap ballet exactly that when we see it, but are villified for daring to critisise sections of a film & the whole rotten sham of the star's so-called skilful dancing almost to pro level aged 28 in just over a year.
@MrKLT1945 I get your point, what I was trying to say is that the ones who are wrong are the ones trying to sell the image of Portman as a super prodigy. It's disrespectful towards dancers. Also, as I'm not a connoisseur of ballet, the dancing scenes looked fine to me. But I understand what you say because me, as a scientist, find it hard to watch CSI and all that fake lab-crap. The movie was crap anyways, and we all know how hollywood stars are built.
@MaghoxFr You are so right! It sounds like if making movies and even the CSI series were so easy! What if you just make a better one, or something even more easy, now you know exactley how hollywood stars are built, be one, I think you are so talented and so intelligent that I will see you in a movie any time!
@OoSayuriioO Since when one has to do something to criticise? I bet you don't criticise government or politicians because you are not one. Nothing you just said makes sense. Are you so naive that you don't know that hollywood stars are built and marketed like a coca cola bottle (look it up, I didn't coin this phrase)? Cheers. And I doubt you will see me, but I am making a film.
@MaghoxFr Well said. My point below emphasise that when U do know EXACTLY what U R talking about (in my case, ballet) U get hammered for having an opinion that does not praise a star's crap 'ballet dancing'. We are supposed to praise her 'efforts? Why? Dodgy logic from some film/NP fans. First NP is a brilliant ballerina then when the opposite is pointed out, it's 'Well, the ballet's unimportant' etc. So unimportant she allegedly 'trained' for over a year. As SL said, she lost weight.
@MrKLT1945 If they didn't want to be compared to ballet, or be compared to ballet dancers, why would anyone mess up with Swan Lake, and then go around saying ballet is unimportant? They could have tried to come up with a character that no one has invented 120 years ago. Or maybe not?
@adballet It's much easier to twist another's work & 'make it your own' - saves an awful lot of work & suits lazy 'artists' down to the ground.! Originality is for the truly gifted & is much more demanding. I could re-invent Swan Lake for geriatrics - would I be a genuis or just a 'How can I get a lot of undeserved attention in the performing arts industry' poacher? The basic premise deeply flawed so BS just another irrelevant schlock-horror piece of mysogonism.
@MaghoxFr The point I wanted to bring is that if appears like if you are trying to devaluate all the work that was made to create this movie. And then when you say holliwood actors are marketed like a coca cola bottle it sounds to like if you try do devaluate all the work that good actors took to be part of wonderful movies. I agree that not all actors, directors and singers are good, but there are, even in holliwood there are brilliant people who make just amazing work.
@OoSayuriioO NO! I'm not devaluating the work put into the movie. That's completely out of the question, I know how crews work and how much everyone put into a movie. Out of th equestion. I'm just giving my opinion on the product, I thought it was an average movie, it was like a student movie. I got sick with all the in-my-face cliches and color contrasts and mirrors and bla bla. I expected more from Aronofsky. Portman was good but I certainly didn't think she was perfect.
@OoSayuriioO Just because someone puts a lot of work into something it does not mean the final result is good. To me this movie is the perfect example of what art mean for Hollywood, they think a pretty face will do.
OMG her arms are terrible! why didn't anyone work on her arms??? get those damn shoulders down!!! effin NYCballet... she should have taken some vaganova classes
I am one of those slating the crap NP passes off as ballet in the film but wtf has her being Jewish got to do with anything? She chose acting as her profession so that's all that needs praising/criticising. Her private & personal life is just that - private & personal.
I write here only cause I know some Jewish people must be watching. Fellow Jew! Make Teshuva, your soul is in exile, get closer to Your G-d, the only One, and His commandments, Moshiach on his way! Shabbat Shalom
@moskrijeprso Well said. So much insulting, ignorant stuff spouted by film fans who know nothing of ballet training. Imagine - H'wood would probably claim after a year's intensive gymnastic (yeah, right) training that an actress aged almost 30 would be able to almost match the performance of say, Olga Korbut, on the basis that said actress did very low-level gymnastics at school once or twice a week twenty years previously! But what H'wood says/does is never wrong, is it?!!
@MrKLT1945 Yea! I mean, when are they going to stop? Performance and appearance of any Hollywood starlette compared to a prima ballerina is like barbie doll in comparison to a classical female sculpture.
@moskrijeprso Acting is an art form as well, and that is exactly what she is. An actress. If you saw The Soloist, Jaime Fox couldn't play the cello. And it was obvious. Yet there are interviews of him claiming to have studied it to the greatest extent before shooting. And he played none of it. Portman trained and did a large portion herself. If you wanted a real ballerina, blame casting.
@RosesSontRouges Are you trying to right a wrong by citing another wrong?
That example of Jamie Foxx is exactly what I'm talking about. And my particular comment wasn't directed so much at Portman, as at the ballet trainer Mary Helen Bowers that's saying "Oh you don't have to be a ballerina in order to look like one".
It's disrespectful not to mention completely misleading.
@moskrijeprso Hahaha! You are absolutely right. The trainer, who does look like a ballerina, got the big bucks and ran. This is the same as saying: "You don't have to be an opera singer to sound like one." "You don't have to be a concerto pianist to sound like one."
@adballet Hahahahah(: Even her accent drives me mad.
Her whole persona is so shallow and inconsistent !
At the same time she includes herself in the top of ballet profession, and in the next sentence she spits on herself by saying she owns a company called fucking "Ballet Beautiful"
@RosesSontRouges Yes, Portman did a great portion of it BADLY. And that's what upsets me. People think those dolly/robotic short arms, short legged turned in/can't wear pointe shoes, stiffed necked actress is the prototype of Swan Queen now.
@RosesSontRouges Yes, but whoever did the special effects got credit for it. And yet, nobody can fly a broom, but some real people CAN dance Swan Lake.
@adballet My point is that she's an actress, not a ballerina. If thats what they wanted, blame casting, not the performer. It is her job to create and develop a character. To expect her to learn an artform that takes years to master in the duration of filming is ridiculous.
@RosesSontRouges And my point is that, they went around deceiving a lot of people about her transformation into a prima ballerina in 1.5 years. And a lot of people believed it. They told Lane to stop giving interviews until after the Oscars. They gave Lane no credit for the dancing. And I don't like Portman's acting in this movie. I saw ONE facial expression the whole movie. It is insulting for the art form to have someone going around saying "I can do it in a click of my fingers."
@adballet Even Royal Opera House, England, had calls from film fans wanting to know when she would be dancing Black Swan live. They walk among us ....& possibly some of them vote! Meanwhile pro schools plod on, still making students go through 8 years + fulltime training. Clearly they know nothing. & any company wondering who to promote to prima ballerina only needs to ask DA, he knows what it takes. H'wood full of egomaniacs who believe their own hype. With real ballet U can't rely on cgi.
@MrKLT1945 You are also right. Egomaniacs is the word. They all thought they could do it in 1.5 years. I bet they even were convinced they wouldn't even need a double at all, that NP would be able to do it all. Then they saw a camera test and not even their mega-egos could swallow it.
@RosesSontRouges If someone had flew the broom for him that person should have gotten credit. But for sure, whoever did the special effects got credit.
@erischaotic I don't literally mean to use Harry Potter as an example, haha. I only mean that people misunderstand that she is NOT a dancer. She simply isn't. She's a an actress. And drama is an artform as well that people in their excessive expectations are sort of demeanining. Some actors use doubles, and there is nothing wrong with that. If they had to be fully trained professionals at whatever their character's did ER and Grey's Anatomy would really, really suck. haha
@pics2share we dont need another "im gonna whisper throughout the whole movie so everythings serious oh and i smoke 20 packs of cigs a day for that raspy voice." we got enough of that
People need to chill out. Black Swan is a movie. It is not specifically documenting literal ballet; there are actors, but then there are doubles who do the complicated dancing. No one can expect Natalie to learn something as complicated as ballet in such a brief period of time. Yet, her double certainly could not act the part like Natalie, she was the dancer, not the actress. Both roles are equally difficult. Give credit where credit is due; don't argue about things that don't matter.
@HushSweetheart Are you sure that are not pretty ballet dancers in the world who can make those faces in front of the camera? Are you absolutely sure dancers never act when they are on stage?
@adballet Oh, stand down. You've been trying to stir the water with everyone here; I've seen it and I'm not going to argue with you about something as pointless as a movie. Stop trolling.
@HushSweetheart The trollers here are the ones who believe lala land has the ultimate word on everything and insult everyone who disagrees with it. Do me a favor, you have no argument, so stop reading my comments and go down and troll some one else who you can possibly have an argument with. But don't say, "I am not arguing" and then go on insulting. And try to see ONE video of a real ballerina in Black Swan and maybe you will consider yourself educated. Good-bye.
@HushSweetheart Yes, sure, everyone who tells the truth -- that all the real dancing in the movie was done by a professional ballerina - is a troll in your book. Look at this video: /watch?v=drS0XgRdlQc
@jewelmarkess Their argument is not my concern. Bothering people on the internet is...really, why do you people get so worked up over something as ridiculous and nonsensical as a movie? I honestly don't care who is a professional ballerina and who isn't. Loving ballet wasn't the point to watching this movie for me, I honestly don't really care for ballet; I watched it for the story. Like I said earlier, give credit where credit is due.
@HushSweetheart I don't see replying to people who comment as bothering people. I see it as a coversation. I learned a lot on you tube. As long as people talk calmly and don't engage in personal attacks, I find the discussions interesting. If you don't, you can always stop answering. Once you don't answer, others would stop replying. As to this argument I think there are two kinds of people who reply - those who care about ballet and those who don't, hence the differences in opinions.
@jewelmarkess I believe that I understand the mechanics of a conversation, thank you. I didn't even have to learn via YouTube. ;) And yes, I agree about the 'those who care about ballet and those who don't' idea, but there are indeed many people on here who take it far too personally. I'm not saying you do nor am I pointing fingers, but I am saying that debating a movie is silly, so I won't. You may have your opinion of what bothering people is, though, that varies from person to person.
@HushSweetheart I think you misunderstood me (the learning new things part). I didn't mean I learned how to keep a conversation, I know that obviously, but I learned new things about the subjects that were discussed in particular threads be it music or dance or anything else. But OK, if you don't want to discuss this subject, I'll not bother you again. The reason I got involved in it is that one thing that bothers me today is the way arts in general, not just ballet aren't respected.
@jewelmarkess Sorry for the misunderstanding, the wording took me aback slightly. I do agree with you, though, that the arts are indeed not respected. I study fine art; I can really attest to that. It is saddening to see that so many people these days could really care less about the arts when they used to be so valued and respected.
@vwalah In the world of dance, one year is indeed a brief period of time. For Natalie to completely portray a character with that caliber of talent on her own, it would take years and years of practice. It is good that they gave her a year of preparation to play the role, though. That is definitely good movie making when that much training goes into one character!
@vwalah professional dancers usually start dancing when they're 3-5 years old, and as they get older they start dancing 5-12 hours every day. One year is nothing :)
@kety96 Hello? They super-imposed Natalie Portman's face over balelrina's body. There is a video here that proves it fo those who don't understand that it's impossible to learn to dance like a ballerina in 18 months. Natalie Portman is an excellent ACTRESS, but she cannot dance.
@ENRIQUE881 In most full-body scenes i.e. scenes that show actual dancing not just close-ups of the face and arm-waving. There is an editing video here, quite interesting.
@ENRIQUE881 Yeah, there are some scenes of NP 'moving' in a very amateur way and should not to be confused with the real classical ballet dancing on view, not by a long chalk. Where would this film be without the wonderful cgi?
@jewelmarkess They did it in TWO SCENES. Only TWICE. Not every scene. And watch the actual movie if you think she can't dance. And no one claims that Portman became a master ballerina in 18 months; she became a very, very good one. Only a moron watches films like this and doesn't expect a stunt double to be used.
@thejoexman There were more than two scenes - look at the special effects video here; there was also another double. Yes, close-ups of face/hands are of Portman, but they aren't good: she isn't graceful, kind of awkward. So no she didn't become any kind of a ballerina, and it's not her fault because becoming any kind of a ballerina, even mediocre one is impossible unless you train seriously and continuously from childhood. She is an excellent actress, but no, she can't dance like a ballerina.
@jewelmarkess Let me rephrase; they only used two of those scenes in the actual movie. I'm sure they did more superimposing for security reasons, but only two were used in the film. And yes, she is very, very good, and I speak from experience, having studied ballet for quite some time. In fact, what I find amazing is peopl only say she isn't graceful if they think it is Portman; if people say it is Lane, then they say, "Oh, she's so good, it can't POSSIBLY be Portman." It's quite confusing.
@thejoexman I see Porman's upper body in close-ups and notice that no, she doesn't move like a ballerina. Yes there are a couple of moments when more than Portman's face is shown, and no, she isn't good in these moments; her turn-out isn't good, for example. Then the camera switches to a fuller view, and you notice the striking difference. I don't know why you don't see this difference. Those who say it's not Portman simply notice this difference, they aren't imagining things.
@jewelmarkess As someone who has danced for years, I can say that she is very good, particularly in her her transitions and the fluidity of movemnt; that turn-out is really good, especially the arms. And how can you say she doesn't move like a ballerina? Not every ballerina moves the same so you can't really call it 'ballerina movements'. There is no striking difference and I think you're confusing your arguments; you originally stated its just superimposed, now you're saying she's just bad?
@thejoexman She is just bad - amateurish - in scenes like arm-waving, close-ups, a couple of moves during exercise. Most full body dance shots - the parts that amount to real dancing not just one move or upper body shots is dancing is done by Sarah Lane. There was also another dance double, Prosa, that did simpler moves. If you studied dancing, it clearly wasn't ballet. Why do you think So You Think You Can Dance never asks contestants to do ballet? Because IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
@jewelmarkess I have studied dancing for virtually all my life and her movements are very, VERY good. I have no idea what you consider amateur because all of it has a passion and ease that comes from being trained for 18 months, after which time it is very hard to look like an amateur. Yes, stunt doubles were used, but again, its not like there is a huge split so their use is obvious and mostly they are only there for security, in case there IS something Portman was unable to do, like fouettes.
@thejoexman 18 months is NOTHING. Ballet dancers train from a very young age CONTINUOUSLY for years. So saying how a 28-year old woman is anything more than an amateur after 18 months make your claims of studying b allet very questionable. Sure, you may have studied othjer styles of dancing, but you sure don't sound like you know that much about ballet. By ballet standards, Natalie's hand movements are amateurish, not graceful or fluid.
@jewelmarkess To reiterate for what I believe is the third time, I KNOW she's not fantastic, but is it really so hard to believe that after 18 months she does have some talent above amateur level? The 'amateur' level you refer to is only an arbitrary idea based on common practicies of ballet. If common practice said 12 years of ballet was amateur, we'd have a lot of amateurs. And, speaking as someone who has done ballet for a LONG time, her hand moments are very well done.
@jewelmarkess And even if what you claim is true, that Portman does not have the complete grace of a full-fledged ballerina, isn't that kind of the point of the film? The whole film is about her losing her robotic-like technical skill and being able to lose herself in the grace and emotion of the dance. They state several times throughout the film that 'perfect' dancers make mistakes and are not completely graceful but lose themselves in the emotion, which no one can accuse Portman of not doing.
@thejoexman Most people agree that Portman is a fantastic actress, and yes it's impressive that she spent 18 months working hard so to get into the mindset of a ballerina and look believable in the close-ups. But for some reasons her fans don't feel this is enough. They want to insist she is some kind of a ballet prodigy who achieved the IMPOSSIBLE - learned to dance like a ballerina in 18 months at the age of 28 and claim that she did the dancing that was actually done by an ABT soloist.
@jewelmarkess So how is that group of people (which is very small, by the way, as not even the team that worked on the film insisited that Portman had become a master ballerina) any different than the trolls screaming how Portman did NONE of the dancing, yet then for some reason say that she DID do the dancing, but all of it is bad? No, she's not a brilliant ballerina, but she was more than capable of holding her own in the film, most of which actually WAS her.
@thejoexman This depends on your definition of dancing. If you are talking about real full body dancing, than Natalie has done very little of it if any. But if you consider close-ups of Natalie's face and upper body or her doing a few seconds of exercise steps dancing, then yes, she's done some of it, and no, it's nowhere near professional ballet level. This is why there is a discrepancy between what Sarah Lane says and what Aronofsky say. I don't see why it sounds complicated to you.
@jewelmarkess The descrepancy comes from the fact that Sarah Lane has reversed herself several times in her statements, claiming she only did some of the complicated dancing to saying she did ALL the dancing and Portman did none. Aronofsky says that 85% of the dancing IN THE MOVIE is Portman. They probably did the same movements with Lane, but only as security. Only long shots and some of the pure feet shots are Lane and only two times did they use facial replacement. That's all there was.
@thejoexman Sarah Lane has NEVER reversed herself. She has always maintained that she counts only full body dancing, not the close ups of the face or arm-waving. I saw her on 20/20. Aronofsky counts all "dance" shots whether it's close-ups of face or hands. An amateur is somebody who isn't a professional as not at the level to get a job as a ballet dancer. 18 months is NOTHING for ballet especially at the age of 28. BTW - there was another dance double too, Prosa, she is in some scenes too.
@jewelmarkess Oh, yes she has reversed herself. She claimed she was only in the scenes with the major movements that Portman couldn't do, but now states she did EVERYTHING. Look it up, its all there. And what about an intermidiate? Did we forget that stage between amateur and professional? And yeah, there's another double too, yet she's not desperately clamboring for her fifteen minutes of fame just because she can. Somehow I have more respect for her.
@thejoexman I've seen the 20/20 interview with Lane, she clearly said she did most of the full body dancing not *everything*. "amateur" implies some ability, there are amateurs better than NP. E.g. I've had years of piano lessons. I can play piano a lot better than NP can dance as I can actually play say a Chopin valtz or a Mozart sonata and it'll sound "pretty" - for an amateur. But I am not good enough to be a professional, and anybody who knows anything would be able to say it right away.
@thejoexman BTW - Either ABC or CNN did their own count, and they confirmed that most full body dance shots are Lane. I really don't understand you. Everyone who knows anything about ballet knows that it takes years to master, and that one needs to start at a early age even to be dancing at the level of corps de ballet at a provincial theater. Now you claim that a 28-year old woman can learn to dance like a professional ballerina in 18 months. I wonder what all these Vaganova students are doing.
@jewelmarkess If you read my posts, I never claimed that she was a professional ballerina after 18 months. I said she was very, very good for someone who trained for 18 months. 'Good' is a big spectrum of things. And its good ABC, who didn't even work on the movie, does their count when everyone who worked on the film CONFIRMS only two scenes had facial replacement and only a few others, where you couldn't see Portman's face, were Lane. And you can't exactly tell who is who without a face to see
@thejoexman I thought one of your post I replied to said she became "not a great ballerina but a good one", even though she didn't become a ballerina at all. Now, if you'd said good for an adult who only trained for 18 months, I'd not have argued with that. ABC said that most full body shots were Lane. Now, I find the whole shot-counting misleading. NP herself said that SL did "foot work, fuettes, turning" which to me really means like all the real dancing. SL clearly only counts real dancing.
@jewelmarkess Yup, NP has NO turnout etc etc etc. I have asked many times & no-one answers - would the Oscar chances have been damaged without the ludicrous hype - hype not born out by her contribution in the 'ballet' bits? Would the acting have suffered with just NP head & shoulder shots, posing in ballet gear and so on? I don't think so. It seems that ppl like me (Royal Ballet) who know classical ballet must have no input at all 'cos it upsets the apple-cart. That really pisses me off!
@MrKLT1945 The guy I am arguing with claims to have studied dancing... It really bothers me, this whole attitude towards ballet and arts in general. People today seem to think that anyone can learn anything quickly. If the movie had been about a pianist, they'd claim one learned to play like a concert pianist in 18 months too? Opera too, butchering an aria with a mic on tv makes one an "opera singer". I live near NYC, saw Don Quixote yesterday, Sarah Lane danced one of two flower girls.
@jewelmarkessThere's studying dancing. Then there's training, & working as a professional classical ballet dancer & teacher. The latter, like me, NOT allowed a say on any alleged (ie bad) ballet dancing when we see it if it a) displays our subject knowledge b) does not uphold the received wisdom of film fans who are ignorant of ballet technique but must believe H'wood only. Our truthful opinions are not allowed, their dumb abuse the only way they can 'converse'. lol
uh-oooh. i smell an eating disorder...
aHoneyHoP 12 hours ago
my teacher is obsessed with natile portman lol ^_^
valissadagomir 1 day ago
Yeah, I only watched this movie for the Natalie/Mila lesbian scene. worth it.
Ifyouknowwhatimsayin 2 weeks ago
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1ADREA 3 weeks ago
at 1:25 her leg is really scary the on that is on the ground
DancerAngela0210 1 month ago
@DancerAngela0210 1:32 is even worse
JohnBarchard 1 month ago
Um... you know she did have a body double for some of the moves right? Sarah Lane. Unfortunatley after the oscar Sarah said that she did most of the dancing where Natalie and her people say that she did most of it.
1yugioh11 1 month ago in playlist MOVIES in parts
@stopcommentingshit i'm sorry, but i'm entitled to do whatever i want.
mstrawder66 1 month ago
BTW i have the actual last 8 minutes of the movie in my channel. :)
sesshoumaru714 2 months ago
well said @thereddeath1100 in order for it to be believable, natalie did need to know some sort of ballet, but she didn't win an oscar for being a dancer...but an ACTRESS a great one at that. What would have been the point for a "real" ballet dancer to "play" nina, if she can't deliver artistically (and i mean in terms of acting)..her basic knowledge of ballet, gave her credit yes, but she won the award for her acting performance..nuff said
sesshoumaru714 2 months ago
hey miss nathalie porter, my name is Ivar Vigriynskijv and I live in south Russia, i want to marry you porter, if you see this please respond please, im van of youre big fans
wepper5 2 months ago
don't see any clowns.Just flat chested bores
Pat87E 3 months ago
I don't really understand how Natalie can dance like this, she practiced just 1 year.
DesignMusicPhotos 3 months ago
natalie you are great!!! Did you do in the past ballet?
KiliniLove 4 months ago
i just watched this minutes ago '' it was crazy as hell ..but Good
kylielovespuppiecash 4 months ago
1:24 looks freaking creepy... <.<
MrLiv1n 4 months ago
lawsuit of the century right here
Retina100000 4 months ago
i had everything happening in my life untill that bitch came along and distracted, i was going to attend ku as a full time student till that bitch got in the way oppressed me further a long a one way delusional street
Retina100000 4 months ago
home girl needs a boob job
Pat87E 5 months ago
@Pat87E what a clown.
Blastaar7 3 months ago
She looks like Spencer from Pretty Little Liars
simsfannumber3 5 months ago
i hate it wen people argue over youtube with long comments like immature idiots -.-
mstrawder66 6 months ago 37
@mstrawder66 so dont read em
stopcommentingshit 1 month ago
@mstrawder66 Tell me about it -_-. People just can't leave people alone anymore.
Zuyuri 1 month ago
@Zuyuri ...and this is why we are doomed.
radtech21 1 month ago
@mstrawder66 Just because you're lazy to read that doesn't automatically make people immature idiots.
iusernaime 1 week ago
Ballet for 10 years thats 2 more than me. 8 years. I had quit due to not being moved up, the teacher had said my legs were not strong enough for pointe. In the class she kept me in, the dance was too easy! I got bored and tired of the class because there really wasn't anything that was challenging or my level so I quit.
Koriinjrocklova 6 months ago
she won the oscar cause mental ill characters usually do. I don't think she is so great, she has the same constipated faces movie after movie, is that acting?
Lakkauser 6 months ago
@Lakkauser Maybe mental ill characters are really a challenge you cannot see. I wonder if you understand what being mental ill really means. Nobody gave her an Oscar for being great, not even for being "good actress" (whatever that implies): she won it because she did her best in a single character. And I mean the best. Get over it. And yes, her constipated faces are part of her characters. Did you notice about everything else than that? In films there's much more than what you see on screen.
ChangusDei 4 months ago
@ChangusDei well she had also a constipated face and weird laugh when she received a golden globe.
Lakkauser 4 months ago
Thoose pictures are beautiful!
MissAsian95 6 months ago
I WANT TO EAT HER PUSSY.
ugalawdog98 6 months ago
who cares that natalie didnt do the work, if Sarah wanted an
oscar she would have been an actress instead of a ballerina
do u really excpect an actress to dance better than a proffesional?
thereddeath1100 7 months ago 73
@thereddeath1100 So it's ok for them to lie?People are changing the subject in question in order to defend Portman just because she's a Hollywood actress an then more popular.Natalie dancing "skills" were shamely used as Oscar campaign with them saying she did 90% of her dancing and she went along with that.
iusernaime 1 week ago
I'm a professional ballerina with the San Francisco ballet, and I truly believe that Sarah did most of the dancing. I've worked my ass off to be able to be where I am now, and I know for a FACT that Natalie, although a great actress, did NOT do most of the dancing.
GotThaFunk227 7 months ago 4
Why the hell is everyone talking about Sarah on this video? This one has nothing to do with the dancing controversy. This woman is Mary Helen Bowers who taught Natalie, not Sarah Lane who was angry- or doesn't anyone read anymore?
soyuncatacol 7 months ago 5
this woman sounds so conceited
ZeinaSereia10 7 months ago 2
I don't like this bitch. Natalie Portman is A-Ma-Zing
OldSlimey 7 months ago
i love natalie portman:3
Janethmrjb 7 months ago
wow sarah just blew her chances of doing any more dance double oppertunitys in hollywood
phynixchen 7 months ago
@phynixchen Not too many films requiring the services of a professional ballerina are made these days! She probably has a more cynical view of LaLa Land now, at any rate, which is no bad thing!
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
GEICO CAN SUCK IT.
AnaTheQueen 7 months ago
@repn87 Yup!
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
0:01
whitneybarros 8 months ago
@repn87 Not wide of the mark there! Now Big Brother's Thought Police aka lemming-like NP fans wil be baying for our blood - again. Fancy having any opinion different to that of LaLa Land's, especially an opinion based on knowledge of an art form that takes years of dedication, blood, sweat & tears to make the grade, if then! Any crap actor with a pretty face can have a very successful working life in films, but crap ballet dancers don't get ANY work! How dare we NOT be deluded morons? lol
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
@repn87 And they couldn't even cover the Black Swan's ass in black net! Can't see the similarity to NP's BS 'body' and that of Murpyh, Nunez, Rojo etc etc, can you?! lol
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
malditos anuncios gringos.
letsseethis0 8 months ago 4
It was a movie (I think it was great movie) and Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis were amazing in it! Their bodies, faces and acting skills made that movie so why take it away from them? It's a different art form with a different audience. I'm sure the dance community is fully aware who made the moves.
enteecee 8 months ago
@enteecee Ballet audience like myself go to movies too. And of course ballet community knows she cannot eve stand on her parallel flat feet looking like a ballet dancer, but we don't know the others to think all it is necessary to dance ballet is a pretty face looking at the camera either. People may stop funding ballet schools thinking we are all wasting our time there for 10 years.
adballet 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
They needed a good actress, plus an actress that brings people to the cinema because too many think that ballet is boring, that's it. The film is more about Carl Gustav Jung's psychological theories than ballet though, and the watcher has to accept that... I was disappointed from the artistic point of view, but it's the same with films like Matrix where actors aren't actual martial artists... :(
XtremePoe 8 months ago
Btw Portman's port de bras isn't believable for a prima ballerina... Not at all :(
XtremePoe 8 months ago
Comment removed
XtremePoe 8 months ago
hated this bitch, and love natalie
chieftains 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
LONGING FOR FREEDOM is a 90-minute feature film
which tells the story of a young woman who finds out that her bf has an affair.
Please have a look at the trailer.
Mark10Fischer 8 months ago
her dance double said the only part of the body that wasn't her was her legs but Natalie did the upper body and i think she did really good it was totally believable...i love this movie
cutiefbaby 8 months ago
Ballet sucks. It's a stupid sport. I loved the movie though, not because of the dancing I could care less about that. I watched it because of the exquisite acting done. The acting, NOT the dancing is what made the movie so great. Also, in nearly EVERY single film EVER made there is doubles. For stunts, talents, etc. My point is that it's a MOVIE if you want to critique ballet the go to a damn recital.
checkmeout955 8 months ago
@checkmeout955 you try doing it, then come by here and criticize ballet
nothere1369 8 months ago
@nothere1369 Right! Funny how DA/NP thought the dance elements WERE important and by implication fairly easily acquired in no time at all, hence the b***s**t intelligence-insulting hype. Any film with delusions of grandeur deserves the flack it gets if the star is clearly NOT up to another art for contained in the film, however willing the star is. Not enough cgi ,imo!! What is also funny is how film fans assume ballet fans cannot be film fans!
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
@nothere1369 I'm a gymnast actually, so trust me I've actually had to do ballet before. I stand by my statement. Also, my sport takes just as much time and dedication if not more than ballet.
checkmeout955 8 months ago
@checkmeout955 Try performing the Spartacus Adagio and then call ballet a "stupid sport".
Mezemme 8 months ago
1:34 never seen that position before :(
grieverslh1 8 months ago
0:0
johhu12 8 months ago
More enjoyable than kings speech imo
1337ontoast 8 months ago
The movie was an average movie for fuck sake, I don't get the whole controversies. SHe acted fine, the illusion of ballet was created fine (for non ballet experts like me at least), but eh movie was pretty weak.
MaghoxFr 8 months ago
@MaghoxFr I bet you won't get hammered for your opinion of the movie as a whole, unlike film fans who also are ballet fans/ex dancers. We call crap ballet exactly that when we see it, but are villified for daring to critisise sections of a film & the whole rotten sham of the star's so-called skilful dancing almost to pro level aged 28 in just over a year.
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
@MrKLT1945 I get your point, what I was trying to say is that the ones who are wrong are the ones trying to sell the image of Portman as a super prodigy. It's disrespectful towards dancers. Also, as I'm not a connoisseur of ballet, the dancing scenes looked fine to me. But I understand what you say because me, as a scientist, find it hard to watch CSI and all that fake lab-crap. The movie was crap anyways, and we all know how hollywood stars are built.
MaghoxFr 8 months ago
@MaghoxFr You are so right! It sounds like if making movies and even the CSI series were so easy! What if you just make a better one, or something even more easy, now you know exactley how hollywood stars are built, be one, I think you are so talented and so intelligent that I will see you in a movie any time!
OoSayuriioO 8 months ago
@OoSayuriioO Since when one has to do something to criticise? I bet you don't criticise government or politicians because you are not one. Nothing you just said makes sense. Are you so naive that you don't know that hollywood stars are built and marketed like a coca cola bottle (look it up, I didn't coin this phrase)? Cheers. And I doubt you will see me, but I am making a film.
MaghoxFr 8 months ago
@MaghoxFr Well said. My point below emphasise that when U do know EXACTLY what U R talking about (in my case, ballet) U get hammered for having an opinion that does not praise a star's crap 'ballet dancing'. We are supposed to praise her 'efforts? Why? Dodgy logic from some film/NP fans. First NP is a brilliant ballerina then when the opposite is pointed out, it's 'Well, the ballet's unimportant' etc. So unimportant she allegedly 'trained' for over a year. As SL said, she lost weight.
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
@MrKLT1945 Yes, that's about it. I'm not an expert on anything though. But I do agree with you.
MaghoxFr 8 months ago
@MrKLT1945 If they didn't want to be compared to ballet, or be compared to ballet dancers, why would anyone mess up with Swan Lake, and then go around saying ballet is unimportant? They could have tried to come up with a character that no one has invented 120 years ago. Or maybe not?
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet It's much easier to twist another's work & 'make it your own' - saves an awful lot of work & suits lazy 'artists' down to the ground.! Originality is for the truly gifted & is much more demanding. I could re-invent Swan Lake for geriatrics - would I be a genuis or just a 'How can I get a lot of undeserved attention in the performing arts industry' poacher? The basic premise deeply flawed so BS just another irrelevant schlock-horror piece of mysogonism.
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
@MaghoxFr The point I wanted to bring is that if appears like if you are trying to devaluate all the work that was made to create this movie. And then when you say holliwood actors are marketed like a coca cola bottle it sounds to like if you try do devaluate all the work that good actors took to be part of wonderful movies. I agree that not all actors, directors and singers are good, but there are, even in holliwood there are brilliant people who make just amazing work.
OoSayuriioO 8 months ago
@OoSayuriioO NO! I'm not devaluating the work put into the movie. That's completely out of the question, I know how crews work and how much everyone put into a movie. Out of th equestion. I'm just giving my opinion on the product, I thought it was an average movie, it was like a student movie. I got sick with all the in-my-face cliches and color contrasts and mirrors and bla bla. I expected more from Aronofsky. Portman was good but I certainly didn't think she was perfect.
MaghoxFr 8 months ago
@MaghoxFr ----- i agree with you i think they over hyped it.
queenofsheba1000 8 months ago
@OoSayuriioO Just because someone puts a lot of work into something it does not mean the final result is good. To me this movie is the perfect example of what art mean for Hollywood, they think a pretty face will do.
adballet 8 months ago
wow these are really long comments
kanieced 8 months ago
OMG her arms are terrible! why didn't anyone work on her arms??? get those damn shoulders down!!! effin NYCballet... she should have taken some vaganova classes
NinjaTree6 8 months ago
I am one of those slating the crap NP passes off as ballet in the film but wtf has her being Jewish got to do with anything? She chose acting as her profession so that's all that needs praising/criticising. Her private & personal life is just that - private & personal.
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
Am I the only one that could only handle less than a minute of this ego maniac's droning, uptight, spoiled voice?
jronning81 9 months ago
@jronning81, nope. I can't stand her "trainer's" voice.
Kari166 8 months ago
@Kari166 Me neither - wouldn't inspire me in any lesson she gave to do anthing but make my excuses and leave!
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
I write here only cause I know some Jewish people must be watching. Fellow Jew! Make Teshuva, your soul is in exile, get closer to Your G-d, the only One, and His commandments, Moshiach on his way! Shabbat Shalom
belleketer 9 months ago
God, that's terrible.
"To give that same ballerina physique to anyone"
Are you kidding me?
Can you not hear how wrong, not to mention insulting that statement is?
Ballerina physique is something acquired through years and years AND YEARS of hard work and practice.
It can not be taught "without that really intensive training and specific ballet work".
moskrijeprso 9 months ago
@moskrijeprso Well said. So much insulting, ignorant stuff spouted by film fans who know nothing of ballet training. Imagine - H'wood would probably claim after a year's intensive gymnastic (yeah, right) training that an actress aged almost 30 would be able to almost match the performance of say, Olga Korbut, on the basis that said actress did very low-level gymnastics at school once or twice a week twenty years previously! But what H'wood says/does is never wrong, is it?!!
MrKLT1945 9 months ago
@MrKLT1945 Yea! I mean, when are they going to stop? Performance and appearance of any Hollywood starlette compared to a prima ballerina is like barbie doll in comparison to a classical female sculpture.
moskrijeprso 9 months ago
Nobody complained that Daniel Radcliffe didn't fly the broom...
RosesSontRouges 9 months ago 200
@RosesSontRouges Yea, because
a) Broom-flying isn't a substantial and wonderful art-form.
b) He didn't allege that he learned it in 100000 the necessary time to begin to even comprehend it.
moskrijeprso 9 months ago
@moskrijeprso Acting is an art form as well, and that is exactly what she is. An actress. If you saw The Soloist, Jaime Fox couldn't play the cello. And it was obvious. Yet there are interviews of him claiming to have studied it to the greatest extent before shooting. And he played none of it. Portman trained and did a large portion herself. If you wanted a real ballerina, blame casting.
RosesSontRouges 9 months ago
@RosesSontRouges Are you trying to right a wrong by citing another wrong?
That example of Jamie Foxx is exactly what I'm talking about. And my particular comment wasn't directed so much at Portman, as at the ballet trainer Mary Helen Bowers that's saying "Oh you don't have to be a ballerina in order to look like one".
It's disrespectful not to mention completely misleading.
moskrijeprso 9 months ago
@moskrijeprso Hahaha! You are absolutely right. The trainer, who does look like a ballerina, got the big bucks and ran. This is the same as saying: "You don't have to be an opera singer to sound like one." "You don't have to be a concerto pianist to sound like one."
adballet 9 months ago
@adballet Hahahahah(: Even her accent drives me mad.
Her whole persona is so shallow and inconsistent !
At the same time she includes herself in the top of ballet profession, and in the next sentence she spits on herself by saying she owns a company called fucking "Ballet Beautiful"
How could a ballerina sink that low.
moskrijeprso 9 months ago
@RosesSontRouges Yes, Portman did a great portion of it BADLY. And that's what upsets me. People think those dolly/robotic short arms, short legged turned in/can't wear pointe shoes, stiffed necked actress is the prototype of Swan Queen now.
adballet 9 months ago
@RosesSontRouges Yes, but whoever did the special effects got credit for it. And yet, nobody can fly a broom, but some real people CAN dance Swan Lake.
adballet 9 months ago
@adballet My point is that she's an actress, not a ballerina. If thats what they wanted, blame casting, not the performer. It is her job to create and develop a character. To expect her to learn an artform that takes years to master in the duration of filming is ridiculous.
RosesSontRouges 9 months ago 2
@RosesSontRouges And my point is that, they went around deceiving a lot of people about her transformation into a prima ballerina in 1.5 years. And a lot of people believed it. They told Lane to stop giving interviews until after the Oscars. They gave Lane no credit for the dancing. And I don't like Portman's acting in this movie. I saw ONE facial expression the whole movie. It is insulting for the art form to have someone going around saying "I can do it in a click of my fingers."
adballet 9 months ago
@adballet Even Royal Opera House, England, had calls from film fans wanting to know when she would be dancing Black Swan live. They walk among us ....& possibly some of them vote! Meanwhile pro schools plod on, still making students go through 8 years + fulltime training. Clearly they know nothing. & any company wondering who to promote to prima ballerina only needs to ask DA, he knows what it takes. H'wood full of egomaniacs who believe their own hype. With real ballet U can't rely on cgi.
MrKLT1945 9 months ago
@MrKLT1945 You are also right. Egomaniacs is the word. They all thought they could do it in 1.5 years. I bet they even were convinced they wouldn't even need a double at all, that NP would be able to do it all. Then they saw a camera test and not even their mega-egos could swallow it.
adballet 9 months ago
@RosesSontRouges If someone had flew the broom for him that person should have gotten credit. But for sure, whoever did the special effects got credit.
adballet 7 months ago
@RosesSontRouges maybe b/c dancing is a real artform... everything in Harry Potter is fantasy. but i think natalie did a superb job
erischaotic 7 months ago
@erischaotic I don't literally mean to use Harry Potter as an example, haha. I only mean that people misunderstand that she is NOT a dancer. She simply isn't. She's a an actress. And drama is an artform as well that people in their excessive expectations are sort of demeanining. Some actors use doubles, and there is nothing wrong with that. If they had to be fully trained professionals at whatever their character's did ER and Grey's Anatomy would really, really suck. haha
RosesSontRouges 7 months ago
@RosesSontRouges true
erischaotic 7 months ago
Daniel Radcliffe did not pretend he learned to fly the broom in one year...
chiyunlulu 4 months ago 5
@chiyunlulu Hell yeah he did! No stunt doubles there.
AnimeBoyFan 2 months ago
0:01 <--- skip adds! D:
heartlessdesireable 9 months ago
0:00 <---SKIP ADS! D:
heartlessdesireable 9 months ago
tight
TheWholeYearInn 9 months ago
Why is this a big deal? This is a movie, not a documentary. Did Sarah Lane
not know why she was hired? Was she expecting her name above the title or
something? Natalie gave a great performance, and was awarded an Oscar.
Her future looks great. Good luck with getting more Hollywood work, Sarah.
pics2share 9 months ago 101
@pics2share we dont need another "im gonna whisper throughout the whole movie so everythings serious oh and i smoke 20 packs of cigs a day for that raspy voice." we got enough of that
capetorial 8 months ago
@pics2share
this is a big deal because a youtube comment section has the most pointless arguments
in the universe
thereddeath1100 7 months ago 3
Go Natalie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cenarius11 9 months ago
freaking. hate. commercials.
mariana4gymnastics 9 months ago
0:00
lovefight1136 9 months ago
great, the ads wont load. thanks youtube
schooloffeet 9 months ago
@kimmois1 nobody loves you:D
armandoooop 9 months ago
Comment removed
laxbellexmort 9 months ago
People need to chill out. Black Swan is a movie. It is not specifically documenting literal ballet; there are actors, but then there are doubles who do the complicated dancing. No one can expect Natalie to learn something as complicated as ballet in such a brief period of time. Yet, her double certainly could not act the part like Natalie, she was the dancer, not the actress. Both roles are equally difficult. Give credit where credit is due; don't argue about things that don't matter.
HushSweetheart 9 months ago 145
@HushSweetheart Are you sure that are not pretty ballet dancers in the world who can make those faces in front of the camera? Are you absolutely sure dancers never act when they are on stage?
adballet 9 months ago
@adballet Oh, stand down. You've been trying to stir the water with everyone here; I've seen it and I'm not going to argue with you about something as pointless as a movie. Stop trolling.
HushSweetheart 9 months ago
@HushSweetheart The trollers here are the ones who believe lala land has the ultimate word on everything and insult everyone who disagrees with it. Do me a favor, you have no argument, so stop reading my comments and go down and troll some one else who you can possibly have an argument with. But don't say, "I am not arguing" and then go on insulting. And try to see ONE video of a real ballerina in Black Swan and maybe you will consider yourself educated. Good-bye.
adballet 9 months ago
@adballet And on your right, everyone, you will see a typical response of a troll being called a troll. Please try not to stare.
HushSweetheart 9 months ago 2
@HushSweetheart Bwahaha. Trolls be trollin'. I commend you for the trolling safari.
BonjourGoat 9 months ago 2
@BonjourGoat Indeed, thank you. Lol.
HushSweetheart 9 months ago
@HushSweetheart Yes, sure, everyone who tells the truth -- that all the real dancing in the movie was done by a professional ballerina - is a troll in your book. Look at this video: /watch?v=drS0XgRdlQc
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess Their argument is not my concern. Bothering people on the internet is...really, why do you people get so worked up over something as ridiculous and nonsensical as a movie? I honestly don't care who is a professional ballerina and who isn't. Loving ballet wasn't the point to watching this movie for me, I honestly don't really care for ballet; I watched it for the story. Like I said earlier, give credit where credit is due.
HushSweetheart 9 months ago
@HushSweetheart I don't see replying to people who comment as bothering people. I see it as a coversation. I learned a lot on you tube. As long as people talk calmly and don't engage in personal attacks, I find the discussions interesting. If you don't, you can always stop answering. Once you don't answer, others would stop replying. As to this argument I think there are two kinds of people who reply - those who care about ballet and those who don't, hence the differences in opinions.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess I believe that I understand the mechanics of a conversation, thank you. I didn't even have to learn via YouTube. ;) And yes, I agree about the 'those who care about ballet and those who don't' idea, but there are indeed many people on here who take it far too personally. I'm not saying you do nor am I pointing fingers, but I am saying that debating a movie is silly, so I won't. You may have your opinion of what bothering people is, though, that varies from person to person.
HushSweetheart 9 months ago
@HushSweetheart I think you misunderstood me (the learning new things part). I didn't mean I learned how to keep a conversation, I know that obviously, but I learned new things about the subjects that were discussed in particular threads be it music or dance or anything else. But OK, if you don't want to discuss this subject, I'll not bother you again. The reason I got involved in it is that one thing that bothers me today is the way arts in general, not just ballet aren't respected.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess Sorry for the misunderstanding, the wording took me aback slightly. I do agree with you, though, that the arts are indeed not respected. I study fine art; I can really attest to that. It is saddening to see that so many people these days could really care less about the arts when they used to be so valued and respected.
HushSweetheart 9 months ago
@HushSweetheart Well said.
insanelittlesilk 9 months ago
@HushSweetheart actually she had a year to learn ballet, i read it in the newspaper which had an interview with her in it
vwalah 9 months ago
@vwalah In the world of dance, one year is indeed a brief period of time. For Natalie to completely portray a character with that caliber of talent on her own, it would take years and years of practice. It is good that they gave her a year of preparation to play the role, though. That is definitely good movie making when that much training goes into one character!
HushSweetheart 9 months ago
@vwalah professional dancers usually start dancing when they're 3-5 years old, and as they get older they start dancing 5-12 hours every day. One year is nothing :)
monequu 9 months ago
@monequu yeh i know it isnt, but she actually did dance in the movie is what im saying XD
vwalah 9 months ago
Sarah lane should've gotten the part, ftw.
DawnKeyRocks 9 months ago
SHE DANCES JUST LIKE AS A BALLERINA ITS AMIZING I LOVE NATALIE PORTMAN :)
kety96 9 months ago
@kety96 Re. NP's dancing (not SL's) - You jest, surly?!
MrKLT1945 9 months ago
@kety96 Hello? They super-imposed Natalie Portman's face over balelrina's body. There is a video here that proves it fo those who don't understand that it's impossible to learn to dance like a ballerina in 18 months. Natalie Portman is an excellent ACTRESS, but she cannot dance.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess in some escenes man, not in every dancing scene.
ENRIQUE881 9 months ago
@ENRIQUE881 In most full-body scenes i.e. scenes that show actual dancing not just close-ups of the face and arm-waving. There is an editing video here, quite interesting.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@ENRIQUE881 Yeah, there are some scenes of NP 'moving' in a very amateur way and should not to be confused with the real classical ballet dancing on view, not by a long chalk. Where would this film be without the wonderful cgi?
MrKLT1945 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess They did it in TWO SCENES. Only TWICE. Not every scene. And watch the actual movie if you think she can't dance. And no one claims that Portman became a master ballerina in 18 months; she became a very, very good one. Only a moron watches films like this and doesn't expect a stunt double to be used.
thejoexman 9 months ago
@thejoexman There were more than two scenes - look at the special effects video here; there was also another double. Yes, close-ups of face/hands are of Portman, but they aren't good: she isn't graceful, kind of awkward. So no she didn't become any kind of a ballerina, and it's not her fault because becoming any kind of a ballerina, even mediocre one is impossible unless you train seriously and continuously from childhood. She is an excellent actress, but no, she can't dance like a ballerina.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess Let me rephrase; they only used two of those scenes in the actual movie. I'm sure they did more superimposing for security reasons, but only two were used in the film. And yes, she is very, very good, and I speak from experience, having studied ballet for quite some time. In fact, what I find amazing is peopl only say she isn't graceful if they think it is Portman; if people say it is Lane, then they say, "Oh, she's so good, it can't POSSIBLY be Portman." It's quite confusing.
thejoexman 9 months ago
@thejoexman I see Porman's upper body in close-ups and notice that no, she doesn't move like a ballerina. Yes there are a couple of moments when more than Portman's face is shown, and no, she isn't good in these moments; her turn-out isn't good, for example. Then the camera switches to a fuller view, and you notice the striking difference. I don't know why you don't see this difference. Those who say it's not Portman simply notice this difference, they aren't imagining things.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess As someone who has danced for years, I can say that she is very good, particularly in her her transitions and the fluidity of movemnt; that turn-out is really good, especially the arms. And how can you say she doesn't move like a ballerina? Not every ballerina moves the same so you can't really call it 'ballerina movements'. There is no striking difference and I think you're confusing your arguments; you originally stated its just superimposed, now you're saying she's just bad?
thejoexman 9 months ago
@thejoexman She is just bad - amateurish - in scenes like arm-waving, close-ups, a couple of moves during exercise. Most full body dance shots - the parts that amount to real dancing not just one move or upper body shots is dancing is done by Sarah Lane. There was also another dance double, Prosa, that did simpler moves. If you studied dancing, it clearly wasn't ballet. Why do you think So You Think You Can Dance never asks contestants to do ballet? Because IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess I have studied dancing for virtually all my life and her movements are very, VERY good. I have no idea what you consider amateur because all of it has a passion and ease that comes from being trained for 18 months, after which time it is very hard to look like an amateur. Yes, stunt doubles were used, but again, its not like there is a huge split so their use is obvious and mostly they are only there for security, in case there IS something Portman was unable to do, like fouettes.
thejoexman 9 months ago
@thejoexman 18 months is NOTHING. Ballet dancers train from a very young age CONTINUOUSLY for years. So saying how a 28-year old woman is anything more than an amateur after 18 months make your claims of studying b allet very questionable. Sure, you may have studied othjer styles of dancing, but you sure don't sound like you know that much about ballet. By ballet standards, Natalie's hand movements are amateurish, not graceful or fluid.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess To reiterate for what I believe is the third time, I KNOW she's not fantastic, but is it really so hard to believe that after 18 months she does have some talent above amateur level? The 'amateur' level you refer to is only an arbitrary idea based on common practicies of ballet. If common practice said 12 years of ballet was amateur, we'd have a lot of amateurs. And, speaking as someone who has done ballet for a LONG time, her hand moments are very well done.
thejoexman 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess And even if what you claim is true, that Portman does not have the complete grace of a full-fledged ballerina, isn't that kind of the point of the film? The whole film is about her losing her robotic-like technical skill and being able to lose herself in the grace and emotion of the dance. They state several times throughout the film that 'perfect' dancers make mistakes and are not completely graceful but lose themselves in the emotion, which no one can accuse Portman of not doing.
thejoexman 9 months ago
@thejoexman Most people agree that Portman is a fantastic actress, and yes it's impressive that she spent 18 months working hard so to get into the mindset of a ballerina and look believable in the close-ups. But for some reasons her fans don't feel this is enough. They want to insist she is some kind of a ballet prodigy who achieved the IMPOSSIBLE - learned to dance like a ballerina in 18 months at the age of 28 and claim that she did the dancing that was actually done by an ABT soloist.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess So how is that group of people (which is very small, by the way, as not even the team that worked on the film insisited that Portman had become a master ballerina) any different than the trolls screaming how Portman did NONE of the dancing, yet then for some reason say that she DID do the dancing, but all of it is bad? No, she's not a brilliant ballerina, but she was more than capable of holding her own in the film, most of which actually WAS her.
thejoexman 9 months ago
@thejoexman This depends on your definition of dancing. If you are talking about real full body dancing, than Natalie has done very little of it if any. But if you consider close-ups of Natalie's face and upper body or her doing a few seconds of exercise steps dancing, then yes, she's done some of it, and no, it's nowhere near professional ballet level. This is why there is a discrepancy between what Sarah Lane says and what Aronofsky say. I don't see why it sounds complicated to you.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess The descrepancy comes from the fact that Sarah Lane has reversed herself several times in her statements, claiming she only did some of the complicated dancing to saying she did ALL the dancing and Portman did none. Aronofsky says that 85% of the dancing IN THE MOVIE is Portman. They probably did the same movements with Lane, but only as security. Only long shots and some of the pure feet shots are Lane and only two times did they use facial replacement. That's all there was.
thejoexman 9 months ago
@thejoexman Sarah Lane has NEVER reversed herself. She has always maintained that she counts only full body dancing, not the close ups of the face or arm-waving. I saw her on 20/20. Aronofsky counts all "dance" shots whether it's close-ups of face or hands. An amateur is somebody who isn't a professional as not at the level to get a job as a ballet dancer. 18 months is NOTHING for ballet especially at the age of 28. BTW - there was another dance double too, Prosa, she is in some scenes too.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess Oh, yes she has reversed herself. She claimed she was only in the scenes with the major movements that Portman couldn't do, but now states she did EVERYTHING. Look it up, its all there. And what about an intermidiate? Did we forget that stage between amateur and professional? And yeah, there's another double too, yet she's not desperately clamboring for her fifteen minutes of fame just because she can. Somehow I have more respect for her.
thejoexman 9 months ago
@thejoexman I've seen the 20/20 interview with Lane, she clearly said she did most of the full body dancing not *everything*. "amateur" implies some ability, there are amateurs better than NP. E.g. I've had years of piano lessons. I can play piano a lot better than NP can dance as I can actually play say a Chopin valtz or a Mozart sonata and it'll sound "pretty" - for an amateur. But I am not good enough to be a professional, and anybody who knows anything would be able to say it right away.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@thejoexman BTW - Either ABC or CNN did their own count, and they confirmed that most full body dance shots are Lane. I really don't understand you. Everyone who knows anything about ballet knows that it takes years to master, and that one needs to start at a early age even to be dancing at the level of corps de ballet at a provincial theater. Now you claim that a 28-year old woman can learn to dance like a professional ballerina in 18 months. I wonder what all these Vaganova students are doing.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess If you read my posts, I never claimed that she was a professional ballerina after 18 months. I said she was very, very good for someone who trained for 18 months. 'Good' is a big spectrum of things. And its good ABC, who didn't even work on the movie, does their count when everyone who worked on the film CONFIRMS only two scenes had facial replacement and only a few others, where you couldn't see Portman's face, were Lane. And you can't exactly tell who is who without a face to see
thejoexman 9 months ago
@thejoexman I thought one of your post I replied to said she became "not a great ballerina but a good one", even though she didn't become a ballerina at all. Now, if you'd said good for an adult who only trained for 18 months, I'd not have argued with that. ABC said that most full body shots were Lane. Now, I find the whole shot-counting misleading. NP herself said that SL did "foot work, fuettes, turning" which to me really means like all the real dancing. SL clearly only counts real dancing.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkess Yup, NP has NO turnout etc etc etc. I have asked many times & no-one answers - would the Oscar chances have been damaged without the ludicrous hype - hype not born out by her contribution in the 'ballet' bits? Would the acting have suffered with just NP head & shoulder shots, posing in ballet gear and so on? I don't think so. It seems that ppl like me (Royal Ballet) who know classical ballet must have no input at all 'cos it upsets the apple-cart. That really pisses me off!
MrKLT1945 9 months ago
@MrKLT1945 The guy I am arguing with claims to have studied dancing... It really bothers me, this whole attitude towards ballet and arts in general. People today seem to think that anyone can learn anything quickly. If the movie had been about a pianist, they'd claim one learned to play like a concert pianist in 18 months too? Opera too, butchering an aria with a mic on tv makes one an "opera singer". I live near NYC, saw Don Quixote yesterday, Sarah Lane danced one of two flower girls.
jewelmarkess 9 months ago
@jewelmarkessThere's studying dancing. Then there's training, & working as a professional classical ballet dancer & teacher. The latter, like me, NOT allowed a say on any alleged (ie bad) ballet dancing when we see it if it a) displays our subject knowledge b) does not uphold the received wisdom of film fans who are ignorant of ballet technique but must believe H'wood only. Our truthful opinions are not allowed, their dumb abuse the only way they can 'converse'. lol
MrKLT1945 9 months ago
WTF at 1:26 ??????????? do someone find this beautifull ??
eazizisaid 9 months ago