Part 22 of 25 Justification By Faith - Sungenis vs White

[mjmenjivar]

Protestants Savior = PAUL

Christian Catholic Savior = JESUS

Protestant worship Paul

Christian Catholic worship JESUS

Protestants look at scripture trough Paul

Christian Catholic look at Scripture trough JESUS

Protentants main mesenger of GOD = Paul

Christian Catholic main mesenger of GOD = JESUS.

[pacislander4life]

@mjmenjivar - I dont think they worship Paul.

[CaChing14]

White said that You can look at the passage "endure to the end" as descriptive. However, this would imply that there were some that were given 'true faith' but didn't keep it, disproving White's view of 'once saved, always saved'. Furthermore, if all the people who had true faith endured to the end, there would be no need for this passage in Holy Scripture.

[WaternSpirit]

Reformed Theology, to some degree remindes me of Gnosticism. I know people have agreed with that. When it comes to some doctrines that is.

[justthefactsmister]

Another comment I would make is that Sungenis consistently does well against White particularly in cross examination and often makes White sutter and err, check out the papal infallibility cross examination.. No wonder White wont debate him anymore, he also knows that if he debated Sungenis on the calvinst pet love-eternal security, he would get taken by the cleaners by Sungenis. Sungenis knows the errors of the reformed position too well!!!

[pacislander4life]

Which makes sense...bc he was reformed at one time

[ryangatech]

Erm, I believe the cross was clearly won by White. His point about election not being based on anything but God's will, about how the son will ALWAYS remain in the Fathers' house (John 8:35), the point about how sola ecclesia boils down to subjective interpretations of the RCC, the 1 Tim 2:4 and 1 John 2 rebuttal... clear as day, White won.

But I'm biased, as are you :)

[pacislander4life]

Oh no, I am never biased :-)

[pacislander4life]

My previous comment said this, "White has a gift of speech and presentation, which is an objective trait, it doesnt mean the content is necessarily true."

[pacislander4life]

Crap...I deleted a few comments, including my own... I thought i was clicking "reply" but I clicked "Remove"... In any case, in response to your point, I think Catholics are not any more honest about Catholics losing debates as Protestants... There are individual differences in both camps...

[pbaylis1]

I always get the sense from White that he would do anything not to be beaten in a debate or face the truth if it means losing a debate or having to change his position. This was clear to me when he was accused along with all other protestants, of disregarding, or dancing around, Romans 2. I'm afraid it's all about debating and not much to do with the truth. Pride is involved big time.

[wuebbsco]

boy, there wasnt much time for cross examination! Well, now its time to seal the deal...by one of them. They have both done a good job, but my vote is for Dr White. Ok, yes I a biased reformed Christian. lol

[pacislander4life]

Sigh...lol... as am I... I will comment on your statements later... I think you will be surprised who you agree with most, if you only knew the position that Dr. White has... Check out the 4th part of the "Is there Salvation Outside of the CHurch" talk I put up of Dr. Sungenis... He talks about this in the Q and A session.

God Bless,

Laurence

[prchdaword]

Personally, I think Sungenis is wrong about salvation outside of the Catholic Church. I think dogmatic documents like Trent and the De Fide dogma's make salvation outside of Rome impossible. I think its just ecumenicalism infecting even Rome that lead Vatican II to declare such a belief

[wuebbsco]

I will check out the 4th part like you suggest. I must admit I started to watch the first part and got a little bored. Sorry, Sungenis is not the best public speaker, no offense intended! I wanna see Sungenis and White debate Eternal Security OR Predestination! That would be a great debate. Probably a heated one too. lol

[justthefactsmister]

Wuebbsco can you accept that White lost any of his debates??? You see at least I can accept that White has defeated Catholic in debate. But the mentality of so many of Whites, is pure emotionalism at times. White often uses emotional language to appeal to the Calvinistic pumped up crowd. If you compare the substance of this debate between Sungenis and White, Sungenis clearly won. btw the prescriptive/descriptive comment by White is a clear twisting of scripture.

[pacislander4life]

To be fair... You and I can just as easily say that Bob won, as Wuebbsco can say that White won... Saying these things gets us nowhere, really... I think every person ought to honestly take a look at the debate and take it for what it is... viewers pay close attention, and choose rationally and wisely...

[pacislander4life]

justthefactsmister (5 hours ago)

OK fair point pac, but at least most Catholics can give White credit where it is due, and accept White has defeated some of his Catholic opponent in debate. But the reformed crowd, its like 'White walks on water', a bit like White who can never admit he has lost a debate..

[pacislander4life]

Indeed you are right, White has defeated a lot of Catholic apologists... But, on that same not, I have read comments from many Catholics who still think the Catholic apologist won the debate against White, as if all Catholic apologists walk on water... White has a gift of speech and presentation, which is an objective trait, it doesnt mean the content is necessarily true.

[wuebbsco]

justthefacts, you ask a good question here. The problem is, I do not have a strong knowledge of Catholicism, Mass, transubstatiation, etc. So a lot of the debates I really dont understand what they are saying! I liked this one, cause I understand the doctrine of justification by faith alone! I have a question, Does losing the debate mean you were not as good a debater, or that you were wrong on the subject? The million dollar question!! lol