GLEN BECK ON REPUBLICAN HEALTH CARE PLAN "ABOLISH MEDICARE" ?

[Shawna0718]

Everyone that believes this is a good idea and will fix the deficit needs to be told only one thing- WHEN YOUR PARENTS GO BANKRUPT OVER MEDICAL BILLS, THEY WILL BE MOVING IN WITH YOU!!!!

OH and forget about putting them in a nursing home, have you looked at those prices lately??

So how do you feel about giving Dad a bath or changing Mom's diaper?

[totallyasimpsonjunki]

ed, you are nothing but a lying, boring, predictable pest. Your seething jealousy of Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. could not be any more abvious. Luckily for you, at least you have somewhat of a following on your show on mslsd, though your ratings will always remain a microscopic percentage of the aforementioned media heavyweights.

[kavadidle]

@totallyasimpsonjunki Your right, but are you implying Hannity and company actually have coherent ideologies? No, they play patty cake politics, and Limbaugh and the rest are extremely intellectually dishonest.

[thunefeld]

what a dick.

[padude64]

All the GOP does is say no and spout with their big mouths! The GOP never had a healthcare plan so tell Glen Beck to burn in hell!

[E1WildTurkey]

LOL Who wouldn't like Medicare if they were on it. Thats like saying seniors who recieve SS like SS and SS works.......lol wrong.

[ONEILLOPS]

you libs are bass ackwards, LOOK @ HOW STUPID YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE HEALTHCARE A RIGHT, WHEN IN FACT IT IS A GOOD, AND TRYING TO FEDERALLY FUND ABORTION TAKING AWAY A GOD GIVEN RIGHT (THE RIGHT TO LIFE) FROM AN INNOCENT BABY, A HUMAN BEING THAT IS SO YOUNG AND INNOCENT UNABLE TO PROTECT HIS OR HER SELF, YOU COMMUNIST CONGRESSMEN AND PRESIDENT WHO VOTE FOR THIS WILL HAVE YOUR DAY OF JUDGEMENT WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED BY GOD.

[emoisfun7]

@ONEILLOPS you are a nut. preeching religion into something that has nothing to do with that. some people dont believe that theres an invisible magic creature in the sky making things happen with his magic. nobodys making you get an abortion, even though somebody probably should...you are a nut. whats worse is that there's a lot of people, living mostly in the buttholes of america in trailer parks, who are just as stupid and closed minded and fanatic as you are.

[ONEILLOPS]

you commi libs make me laugh.

[kavadidle]

@ONEILLOPS Yeah sure, liberals are funny, but "commie?'' That in no way helps your cause. "Commie" has no meaning in modern day politics.

[ONEILLOPS]

@kavadidle the hell if if don't, what else you call it??? your occupy wall streets bull shit, wanting me to pay for your student loans you cant afford...LOL... whats not commie about taking from me and giving to others??? move to Korea, the North side that is if you want that shit... but not here in the U.S. if you want to live here, labor, provide, don't be a leech.

[kavadidle]

@ONEILLOPS I agree with you!!! But to say 'commie' serves little purpose but to make more whiny liberals. My point is that Communism is a word that has little meaning. Anarchist? Fascist? Statist? Socialist? Liberal? These could all be "communist" ideologies depending on a subjective point of view. Good day.

[fnitsky]

Seniors: on the brink of death and steals from young people. God damn leeches.

[GOPmasterplan]

@thevirtueallliberal Look man! We will have our way! Fascism is here to stay. You know your govt is ineffective,the corporation will do a much better job than anyone you can elect. Look at as sex with a rubber doll. Just close your eyes and use your imagination. Pretend to be free, youll see how easy it will be.We will eliminate all social programs,auction all federal,and state properties,and natural resources. You wont have to worry about anything. Your gonna love the New Amerika

[thevirtueallliberal]

GOP I'm sorry dude, ha..I saw the GOP and all I saw was red . I've been going at it with these losers, updating my page , with out sleep . I retract that statement my friend . Have a good one . It's earased what I wrote in error .Peace.....

[GOPmasterplan]

Ah liberals,what can be said.....except Your too freakin late. With the supreme court ruling,giving corps unlimited freedom to buy the govt they want,our NWO fascist control of this country is a matter of time. You will see no free and fair elections,no govt programs of any kind,they all will be abolished! All services and resources will be owned and operated by a conglomerate.

[thevirtueallliberal]

It's not to late GOPmasterplan . Although, I agree, the SCOTUS , pro-corporate limitless funding MUST be stopped ! Republicans are praising it . There's a surprise (sarcasm) . I laugh every time the GOP sell them selves as the common man and people buy it ?

[GOPmasterplan]

@thevirtueallliberal It is too late. Fascism is your future.

[ZachandRob07]

how about you listen to the people below who are from countrys that have socialized healthcare. they dont seem to like it very much.

[thevirtueallliberal]

We have listen to people from other countries with "socialized" health care, what ever that means ? They don't want the U.S. system, overwhelmingly .

[TheNewVideo]

The answer Democrats have is this poor piece of shit bill that is a slush fund for all their programs to get them re elected. How does that help people?

[cook119]

@TheNewVideo You are a fucking idiot who doesn't deserve to have an opinion, what all this the democrats just want to get re-elected and the republicans don't? that politics you imbecile, blinded by your tribalism. If they make people happy they get re-elected beautiful isn't it.

[cpblackangel88]

Replace medicare with private accounts.

[thevirtueallliberal]

That's just what Bush and the Republicans wanted to do cpblack before this second great depression . They wanted to privatise medicare . Think medicare is over budget now ? That would have been a disaster .

[cpblackangel88]

Well I want to replace medicare,medicaid,social,secur­ity,and welfare. I want to start with an option for this. Meaning that you will get a choice if or if not you want to be part of this system or not. Also none of these are paid for by the taxpayers or they can add to the debt. So your prices could go up and once you sign on you have to pay what they ask and you can't get off. It's more like job insurance and there is a private market. And SS and medicare you invest in renewable energy.

[thevirtueallliberal]

You mean like people's 401k's ? How's that working for people under the current market right now ?

[LarcheOsborne]

As to the 13th Amendment, note that freedom from slavery and such are guaranteed by the federal government and the federal government is given the power to enforce this right. Thus it is a positive liberty. Southern slaveholders did not peacefully release their slaves. The federal government forced them to. Freeing the slaves amounted to the largest mass confiscation of private property ever to occur in US history. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

You mention something bad occurring to the Constitution in 1913. Two constitutional amendments were ratified in 1913.

The 13th Amendment which allowed for the collection of an income tax. Before this taxes were greatly regressive. It was a change of necessity.

The 14th Amendment which allowed the direct election of Senators. This change enabled common people to participate in deciding who governed them.

To which of these do you object and why? (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

History has shown that monopolies form even without government assistance. Take for example, those formed by Rockefeller in oil and the House of Morgan in railroads. Furthermore, when not restrained by government -- this is now a huge problem in the US -- corporations interject themselves into government. They are frequently allow to write or propose legislation that directly benefits them. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

Response to Your Answer:

1) If your ideal would would allow slavery, we have nothing to discuss on this issue.

2) Americans largely know their most basic positive liberties, although, not having read I. Berlin, they may not be familiar with the term. You likely are not aware, unless you are engaged in law or government, the full extent of your positive freedoms. Be thankful for them. As to the remainder of you second answer, I have addressed in the preceding comment.

[larsiemannen]

1) My world would reckognise human ability to do wrong, but all means of nescessary can be used to abolish evil, like slavery, so - slavery wouldnt be a common thing in my system.

2) How can I be thankful of a system that denies me connection to this world? one of the major problem is 'property over land that no men have made', like forrest, huge waters and land which are not build by men. cost of living is skyrocketing of this socialistic ideas.

[larsiemannen]

You've said it ur self - 'they are freuently allowed to write or porpose legislation that directly benefits them'. Which one? And how come this is good when govt. allows benefits for one company and not the other? This is what i'm against, and this only happends when you've got govt who think they have the right to do so.

[larsiemannen]

Income tax is a theft. So. its bad. no one has right of your money. 14th amendment shouldnt be needed since the senators and govt. people shouldnt controll ur life, which they are mainly doing nowadays. far from capitalistic system

[larsiemannen]

Freeing people is of negative right.. 'dont take my life and make me into a slave'.. I dont understand how you can see this as a positive right. if so, you've misunderstood the whole consept.

[LarcheOsborne]

Freeing of the slaves involved a positive freedom because it was unforced by the 13th Amendment in the United States. The right granting the federal government to intervene can be found in the Clause 2. The slaves would have never been liberated were it not by federal force. Remember, negative liberties are born by denying the government to violate your freedom, for example the first nine amendments. Positive rights are those which are backed by state action. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

In the US, our positive freedoms include our right to be free of government-mandated religion. Our negative liberties include the right to be free from slavery and the right not to be murdered. These rights are enforced by the government.

I don't understand you disdain for the 14th Amendment. It was ratified to grant citizenship to the freed slaves, thereby undoing the damage done by the Dred Scott decision. It has been used to made most of the Bill of Rights binding on the states.(continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

The 14th Amendment has its downside, I admit. Conservative Courts used it to protect private property rather than individual rights as first intended.

As for income tax, they are graduated and necessary. A regressive tax would greatly harm the poor and middle class.

In the United States, minimum wage is low. Even the most servile of jobs merit minimum wage. Having no minimum would enrich the wealthy at the expense of the poor. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

There has been considerable unemployment during times when we had no minimum wage or industrial regulation. Perhaps Glenn Beck does does give millions to charities. But that does not solve the problems of the working class. Our insurance companies gorge themselves while refusing to cover medical claims. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

You made know this, but about 1900 or so, major live insurance companies insured many Americans. The poor paid the highest premiums. At least 25% of the poor investors were never able to claim their share. It required state governments to repair the problem. In some states, insurance companies prevented reform. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

In Norway, your government goes far in regulation of business compared to my government in the US. But on the other hand, Norway's standard of living is higher, your children are better educated, your average healthcare is above ours, and Norwegians typically live longer. Not a bad exchange for some business regulation. Please read a book about industrial changes in England and the US to see how bad things were when industry was unregulated and unfettered.

[larsiemannen]

they say they are better educated, but its only meassured by psyco-fuckups in the UN. I dont care about where the best education is, cause its not relevant of this case - what is relevant for me is my freedom, nor what the govt. can 'allow us' to do in life do have a 'better' life.

No life is worth living without being free. Thus, you need to be criminal to find ur life meaningful (to some extent)

[LarcheOsborne]

The nations with the best healthcare systems are those with a single payer plan. There have been nations which relied totally on private health and the average life expectancy was very low. Remember, even with regulation, insurance companies constantly deny needed treatment and terminate policies of the chronically ill.

What freedoms have you lost in Norway? Norway is freer than other countries with less corporate regulation. (continue)

[LarcheOsborne]

The right to be free from slavery is a positive liberty. I cannot enslave my neighbor because the law protects him from slavery. I suggest you return to I. Berlin and then think about your freedoms. I suspect you will soon realize you possess many positive liberties. Of course, if you see the mafia and thieves as role models, you may approve of the government using it power to protect the safety, freedoms, and property of the average citizen. I took you to be more intelligent that that (continue

[larsiemannen]

no. its a negative liberty. 'you cannot take my home'. thus. i'm not a slave for the thief. i've thought enough about this matter. I totally ignore positive rights.

[LarcheOsborne]

Any law which protects my neighbor from me enslaving him, robbing, or stealing his land is providing with a positive right.

A positive liberty refer to any freedom or right that the government must enforce. A negative liberty simply protects you from the government, not your fellow citizens. Thus, if you had a negative right to freedom, your government could not enslave you, but your neighbor could.

[larsiemannen]

There is no difference between "humans in govt." and "humans in general". They are equally made in construction, their spirit, thus, there is no difference if govt. or ur neighboor is stealing. If I have the right to healthcare, it has to imply stealing from ur neighboor, which violates NEGATIVE RIGHTS. right to ur freedom is negative since you cannot demand ur neighboor loosing his freedom because you want urs. Its logically disprooved houndreds of years ago

[LarcheOsborne]

Your premises are flawed. You are part of a social community. In addition to maintaining the infrastructure that allows you to respond to me on YouTube, your government educates you, protects you from crimes, builds highways, provides water and electricity, oversees airlines, maintains a military, and performs countless other tasks. They do these things with tax money. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

When I served in the military, I was once sent to a country when only negative liberties exist -- Somalia. The standard of living was low, people died quickly and often painfully, people lived with out safe water and doctors were non-existent as there were no schools to educate anyone. The people I met there were very unhappy, but except for the bandits who regularly stole all their belongings, they were not taxed. I don't think you would have enjoyed this anarchy so much.

[larsiemannen]

Its chaos in Somalia. A system of private ownership would do divide it from chaos to prosperious. You cannot produce stuff without production. we dont need socialism in somalia, but capitalism and FREE TRADE

[larsiemannen]

I'm not part of a social community. There are many people around me who call them self Norwegian, but its not relevant for my life. That thief and mentally disorded govt. men and socialist gives stuff back that I dont want, or dont care to pay for, its not relevant. Is a theft less stealing because the thief are dumping shit on ur doorstep?

[larsiemannen]

Its not most important to me what's 'most effective or best', even tho this is often most true in private, but whats -GOOD- AND RIGHT.

In norway we have lost about 90% of our freedom, maybe. (taxes regulations and denials, we are only fucked up shit of democracy to use). I pray to God that him will burn socialist forever - as they deserve.

[larsiemannen]

I understand why poor people has to pay more; living more risky life and working harder which make more cost of companies that suply doctors. Your problem is just something fucked up you imagine in ur head. People can ofcourse not pay their insurance and buy things as it happends. Thats an option. definitly

[larsiemannen]

And there should be considerable unemployment if many people dont want goods that are produced. Who wanna waste resources? Not me, but liberals and other mind-fuckedup communist do. They dont care anything about their owns means using force.

[larsiemannen]

Its not nescessary. nothing is nescessary of the govt. to do. If you abolished 'private ownership on forrest, sea and unbuild land' the poor would be able to survive much better - if they want to. THATS CAPITALISM. NO FORCE USED TO LIVE. Very man for him self, which life is pretty much about. Abolish the minimumwage, its unethical to dictate a price an A and a B is agreeing upon.

[larsiemannen]

p1. Take item from another without consent is theft.

p2.. Govt takes from me without consent.

Conclusion. govt is theft.

Okey.

Slavery is one form of theft (your taken away ur natural way to control ur body).

If Taxes is to take production from me without consent, they take from me whatever my body produces, thus, taxes is slavery.

Conclusion, if I have right against slavery, I have right to not being taxed.

[larsiemannen]

No. 'freeing slaves' is invoking a negative liberty that tells us: you have the right NOT to be dictated. To whom that dictate its OK to dictate. That mafia did something good dont interfere with conclusion that US govt, and all of worlds govt, is corrupt and evil. I reject positive rights as good as its like how a thief is thinking

[LarcheOsborne]

Making a legally binding contract is more complicated than you might realize. It varies from state to state. Sometimes, an exchange of words may bind you to a contract. Every time you unwrap a new piece of software and insert it into your computer, you are making a contract. On the other hand, unless items or services of actual value are exchanged, no legal contract exists. Contracts are confusing things, and the side with a lawyer has the distinct advantage. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

Although I have a JD and studied contracts in law school, there are some contracts I would never sign without hiring a lawyer. Business should never be able to exploit children -- or any other citizen for that matter -- just because it can afford to hire expensive lawyers. The "Freedom to Contract" Clause does not mean we can be forced into anything without our informed consent. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

Read your home mortgage sometime, for example, and try to figure out all the boilerplate language. You will likely be confused. But try again and imagine what loopholes your mortgage company might have included were it not for government action prohibiting it. This can be included among your many positive rights you have.

[larsiemannen]

I dont see how my life will be better of not doing things like being responsible for my own contract over house... I dont even need a insurance on my house and safe thousands of dollars per year. Rights means that other have to be servitutude.. thats slavery. 13th amendment!

[larsiemannen]

"The "Freedom to Contract" Clause does not mean we can be forced into anything without our informed consent. (continued) " - Sounds like government are taking controll over humanbeings if you ask me. hehe

[LarcheOsborne]

By the way, positive rights became part of the Constitution starting with the 13th Amendment in 1845. Other positive rights were added to the Constitution in the years to come. Furthermore, if you hold the Declaration of Independence to be binding, you should note that it contains positive freedoms. Of course, the DOI is not law, but I've seen it cited in motions. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

2 questions --

1) What is there to prevent someone making a slave of you if we do not recognize negative freedoms?

2) In the past, industry was not regulated, and it used its powers to oppress its workers and the American public. Without regulation, what will prevent them from violating our rights once more? Unregulated industry has the unfortunate habit of congealing into monopolies, and thereby take advantage of both its workers and its customers. How would you prevent this from happening?

[larsiemannen]

1) none.

2) its not unregulated industry that goes into monopolies, but REGULATED ONES, you know, the one government approves of. its like here where I live, atleast, in Norway.. Those who are monopolies are either 1) govt, or 2) a company that were tide up with the government. NO private company have ever had monopoly, IN THE WORLD, without regulations..... [I guess you need to inform men about your negative rights, and that they fight against men who want to take ur freedom away (as govt)]

[larsiemannen]

What do you mean about 'positive rights' by the 13th constitution in 1845? Abolishing slavery and involuntary servititude? I'm not a strict constitutionalist, but its a darn nice paper which describes how men should relate.. (before 1913)

[LarcheOsborne]

Are you distressed by the loss of these freedoms?

Private industry, when unrelated, have the unfortunate habit of removing the rights of working American to own private property, fair wages, the ability to bargain for wages, and even the right to vote freely. What leads you to think they will not violate these basic rights if again unregulated. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

And no, unless you are a major Board Member, CEO, or law maker during the most recent rampage of deregulation, you are not at fault. However, as recessions this deep could have been mitigated. I expect the government to protect our citizens from those who would prey on them, be they terrorist or multi-national corporations.

[larsiemannen]

I dont like the multi-national corp. myself. They tend to get benefits from the govt. in production which again destroy the nature of market and it will allways hits the end consumer and the lower in econonmic ladder.

[larsiemannen]

When an A and a B goes together to do business, they usually write a contract, and A has choice to write or not, or argue better terms, and B has all the same abilities, and even reject the business. I dont see the problem. Be responsible for your contract. its about you and no one other. problem is regulation and taxes which makes it harder on small business and simple work which takes little time.

[littlewing126]

nextdrink45, you've been watching Beck too long. You don't have a clue what you're talking about and it shows. Oh, and Beck has lost 30% of his audience in the past month alone, so some of his viewers aren't complete morons, I guess.

[nextdrink45]

Yeah look at the CBO report you Libtard!!!! That same CBO report will show you just how unsustainable this MASSIVE takeover is!!!! You may like higher taxes, but myself as well as most Americans do not!!!! Dumbass!!

[thevirtueallliberal]

Look you cock sucking corporate sheep, if you fucken knuckle draggers want to keep bending over for private insurance, opt-out . You wouldn't have to pay shit . But blue states want it, so mind your own fucken business . Blue states are tired of paying red states medical bills for being a bunch of fucken lard meth smoking fat asses . Yeah, read the CBO report you illiterate fuck !!

[nextdrink45]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

FUCK OFF!!!!

[3star2nr]

Medicare has 3% overhead. meaning 97% of every dollar that goes into Medicare goes to providing actual health care.

Private insurance has a 30% over head meaning only 70% of each dollar goes to treating people. Some companies as ed said is WORSE.

So how is medicare LESS efficient than private insurance?

beck is an idiot.... why am i not surprized typical conservative facts dont matter in their world

[nextdrink45]

This moron would love for Beck to cancel his own show because Beck and Fox DESTROY MSNBC in the rating on a nightly basis!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

Gov't run HC is not only unsustainable, but will run this country into the ground even more than it already is!!!!!!

Thanks Obama!!!

[3star2nr]

I dont understand. Why does ratings matter to you? Are you that brainwashed by fox news?

[nextdrink45]

I'm not brainwashed, I just think it's hilarious to watch everyone over at MSNBC pathetically try to discredit those at Fox. It's no wonder why MSNBC's rating are in the tank!!

HAHAHAHAHA

[thevirtueallliberal]

Yeah your brain washed . Any dumb red state fuck who could be anal raped into voting against his own best interest and for insurance corporate interest is brain washed you dumb ass hole !!

[nextdrink45]

You are a joke, you fucking pile of crap!!!! It's those insurance companies that have helped us become the greatest HC in the world!!!! This country has produced the most medical advancements, & medical treatments than any other country in the world!!!!!! Besides, isn't becoming rich and successful in this country the "American Dream"?? My best interest??? What.....higher taxes??? A national debt that my grandchildren will pay for???

Cont'd....

[nextdrink45]

The goverment telling me what treatments I can and cannot have??? Illegal aliens having access to the HC through my goverment????

NO THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!

I think you're brainwashed into thinking that Liberalism and the goverment is the answer to all your problems. Instead of standing up on your own 2 feet and providing for yourself.

So take your liberal/progressive BULLSHIT and shove it up your ass!!!!!!

[3star2nr]

No but why would ratings even matter to you?

its like you actually caring about how much stock a toilet paper company has before picking which one to whipe your ass with.

Ratings shouldnt matter to the consumer only content.

Ratings only matters to the corporations, and also to advertisers

[nextdrink45]

You're right, ratings don't really matter to me except for the fact that I enjoy watching the conservative movement gain strength as this radical left-wing nutjob of a President continues to destroy this country!!!

You think it's a sheer happening that Fox shows have at least double the viewership than anyone else in cable news??? No my friend, people are waking up to the left-wing agenda that will hurt us more!!!!! And guess what......we don't want it!!!!!

[thevirtueallliberal]

We all would love if beck would cancel his show . It's not like your learning any thing, ha.. ?

[thevirtueallliberal]

Well, except how to be more bat shit out of your mind .

[thevirtueallliberal]

Private wealth care isn't sustainable . Not for profit is .

[3star2nr]

They are building their own noose and dont even realise it.

The only reason private insurance still exist is because the politicians have been keeping them alive. The more insurance companies fuck people over the stronger the progressive movement gets. Notice how many Anthony weiners, Alan Graysons, Bernie sanders etc are starting to pop up?

Its not a coincidence

[larsiemannen]

Medicare is an aproach from the American Constitution where Government get more power to decide if you deserve help or not. We've experienced this in europe and it sucks. totally. US will loose its base as greatest nation in world when going this road. Progrevism is NOT A GOOD THING!

[thevirtueallliberal]

Sorry dude, that power already belongs to the private insurance companies at a tune of 45,000 people dieing a year from no coverage . So your saying you would give up your countries health care for a system like ours, ha..? Progressive good, Republican bad, ha..!

[larsiemannen]

Remove whatever power the private insurance companies has, and let the market, completely, fix this by it self. Optimal would be no regulations, and no tax which pays for governmental care.

[thevirtueallliberal]

You mean like Wall Street and the banks fixed themselves now, ha..? Are you crazy Lars, who's going to fix those nice shiny roads you drive on ? You want no taxes and no regulation, move to Somalia . Any more bright ideas ?

[larsiemannen]

All private companies will fix those. What is the 'market', ever thought of that? Its just an acitivity of a person, who has an interest, and another one who has the same, where both gain profitt. Its basic and simple and it works in all fields. That is 'capitalism' isnt with government ruling laws of interraction of humans, but logic.

[LarcheOsborne]

Capitalism works well in many areas, but with respect to others, it is a failure. For example, ending slavery required government intervention. Before the Civil War, capitalists used slaves in industrial factories of the upper South along the seaboard. Capitalists opposed the TVA. They also resisted industrial safety regulations and being forced to cover the medical costs of employees injured while fulfilling their job functions.

[LarcheOsborne]

Unregulated capitalism caused the Great Depression and the numerous panics of US economic history.

Capitalism requires a certain interaction of supply and demand to function fully. This adjusts the cost of each item on the market. But healthcare violates this rule. If I contract cancer, I cannot wait until the demand is low and then purchase a cure. If you break a limb, you must receive treatment now. You are unable to secure the least expensive hospital -- prices are fixed. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

Capitalism has little regard for those at the bottom of the economic stratum. That is one reason we have so many uninsured individuals in the US today. To more actually understand how capitalism led us to ruin during the Great Depression, I encourage you to pick up a good book by a well-regarded historian or economist about the legal activities and economic policies of capitalism during the 1920s.

[larsiemannen]

You dont have an unregulated capitalism when you have FED doing monopoly on currency production in US. They largely control the key premises in our economy. A good way to get fast healthcare is to assure you a good private one. Best would be if gov used -zero- dollars on this subject. This would suit the market perfectly.

[larsiemannen]

I dont see it as a failure; its more of a blessing to be able to do business with someone else on this planet. . what have been done by so called capitalists are irrelevant for what 'capitalism' is.

[LarcheOsborne]

There was a time in the US when banks were unregulated and even issued their own currency. Anyone doing business had to have a local "specie circular" to see the true value of bank notes. Because the value of unregulated bank notes declined so quickly, one bank could issue you a dollar which you would later discover to have a value of 12 cents. The unregulated bank system led to numerous panics and the Great Depression. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

Of course, the FED existed in the 1920s but it had been striped of all power by Republican Presidents and the very conservative SCOTUS. Louis Brandise was one of the few men who saw the dangers of deregulation and predicted the Depression, but even he didn't realize how bad it would be.

A zero-cost approach to healthcare would leave, in addition to the millions already uninsured, millions more because companies in an unregulated market, would not be require to insure employees. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

Would your unfettered capitalism allow companies to carry no insurance for workers on the job as it once did? Would it allow child labor as it once did? Would it allow supervisors to lash workers as it once did? (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

Read your own insurance policy, find your lifetime limit on access, and then estimate how long it will cover you should you develop a life-long illness requiring expensive treatment. Try to find another company that will cover you if you are elderly or have pre-existing conditions.

You are yet to answer my previous objections to unregulated capitalism. Even Adam Smith believed in certain regulations.

[larsiemannen]

I see alot of challenges, but I dont see any good reason for others to be forced out to carry out my problems. All those issues would probably have some solutions to it. I would imagine in a total free society, there will be free healthcare for certain individuals who are low on value or property, but this would not be funded by tax-dollars, but humans who find helping others interesting..

[larsiemannen]

1. Yes. 2. Yes, ofcourse. 3. Only if the worker allowed it to be in contract, yes.

[larsiemannen]

Its not dangers of deregulation what makes depressions, it's lack of production of goods or other interesting stuff, or govt. making jobs which are meaningless and waste of resources. We're talking about 'resources' here. Abolish all rules that forces people into insurance.

[LarcheOsborne]

History proves that deregulation is not the worker's friend. Regulation has resulted in greater unemployment, less work place safety, less insurance, higher prices, and lower wages. Why go back to that?

[LarcheOsborne]

We have a lot of people today who own very little, and they often become bankrupt and homeless because of a lack of healthcare. Why do you think they would receive in a unregulated market? The poor do not receive healthcare in other nations with unregulated markets. Not did they in the US when markets were unregulated.

[LarcheOsborne]

Overproduction can lead to market chaos. One of the first markers of the Great Depression was overproduction in the agricultural market. This led to deflation and loss of homes and jobs. As for the need of insurance, my car was twice struck and once totaled by careless drivers. I'm glad they were forced to carry insurance. I have a chronic illness. I am grateful for my state insurance for public workers.

[larsiemannen]

You're basically telling me that we need regulation over people being foolish when investments are failing? No no no! When you allow this you also allow alot of other control of your life! The market will allways fix it self as it actually did.. Those who wasted resources had to pay for it aswell! You see!? Perfect! That people going bankcrupt is totally fine if reality thinks so.

[larsiemannen]

Even very poor people are better off in a free society; free to recieve help from anyone who wants to give, free to work for under minimumwage to get straight and increase while he transform from a bum to a regular slo'. You see. rules and regulations tend to discourage you and often hinder you in actually do a change to get moving.. govt. need poor and lousy people in argument for their continuation of system. ur system is disgusting.

[LarcheOsborne]

Actually, government bureaucracy need not be inefficient. For example, During World War I, the US government managed the railroads. They did so at a lower price than did private corporations and still distributed to stock holders a return equal to that received before the war. Of every $1 spent on healthcare, less than 2 cents go to administrative cost; of every $1 spent on private health care, over 30 cents go to administrative costs. Government administered is very efficient. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

The market is not self-correcting. Before government regulations, banks often went bust, leaving those with saving nothing. When the power of the FED was reduced by a conservative Supreme Court, it helped insure the severity of the Depression. Lack of government oversight of banks helped bring on the current recession. The FED's intervention is especially needed in a post-industrial America. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

As for safety in industry, it's standards are enforced by both federal and state regulation. There was a time when a worker could be injured doing work assigned by the employer, and the employer had no liability for the worker's medical costs. He could just fire the injured worker and make no safety adjustments. It was also very common during the late 1800s and 1900s for big business to drive small businesses out and set their own prices. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

People are not necessary foolish when they lose in the market. The are at the mercy of the Board. They have no control over or knowledge of interlocking directories. Companies can dilute stock. The typical worker rarely invests directly. It is usually done by the director of a pension plan or by mutual funds. Ensuring that these trusts are not abused is a service to working people, not a limiting of their freedoms.

[larsiemannen]

It's still not my fault that they loose on the market

[larsiemannen]

Big business are often associated by governmental fedling. There are few branches where big business takes totall controll and 'drive out small business out'. Often is governmental medling destroying 'the small businessman' way to sucsess by regulating and capping. If its possible for employee and 'yer to work without insurance, with consent, its possible.

[larsiemannen]

Market is only the sum of men who want to be trade with eachother. Ofcourse its correcting it self. It allways does. and those who suffer are those who deserves it most. When politicians or liberal people come they tend to fix the market so the burden will hit someone else than those who should be hit; plus giving some saluray to them self in the process. Its pretty genious. Progrevism, liberals. like snakes.

[larsiemannen]

They usually are inefficient, but this is just a secondary argument in my point of view. peoples freedom are more important than pesky collectivism. One's life is his untill the end of the world. I doubt that those branches had same premise to work after. (govt vs private).

[LarcheOsborne]

Governments have proven vital in providing services that business cannot provide. For example, potable water and other utilities, the military, regulation of interstate and international commerce, city sewage systems, public education, and promotion of orphan drugs research, to name a few. Regulation is not collectivism. See a history of the Soviet Union and Mao's China for clear examples of collectivism. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

Proper and constitutional regulations cost us what rights? I do not miss the right that a 13-year-old child once had to sign a binding contract with an abusive millionaire and his score of lawyers. I do not miss the right of a corporation to cause an employee lasting harm and then dismiss him with no compensation. I don't miss the rights that children once had to labor at starvation pay until they were permanently crippled by their mid-teen years. (continued)

[larsiemannen]

If an employee can suffer damage from work this should be put into the contract, that the employee takes all risk; you need to be informed and be given terms of relationship. rest is uninteresting due its context and timedata. ofcourse poor had it worse 150 years ago, but due our market, production and consumer, we have established higher increase of rich, globaly speaking, people. What rights? i dont believe in rights, only negative liberties. That would be the goal.

[larsiemannen]

Governments are a meaningless term. They are humanbeing as others, like those in the private firm, I cannot see why humans in Govt. are more effective than private when all incentives speaks of private. effiency? And where is my choice to not buy 'education' from govt? Taxes through products or work pays for it anyway. this is collectivism. Everyone has to be in the system if they like it or not. regulations are naive and destructive.

[LarcheOsborne]

As I said, capitalism has a role to play, but unfortunately it is more than a simple exchange of services. Because of technological innovations, millions have lost their means of income. Furthermore, the modern corporation does not work for the betterment of workers or the average citizens. Rather, it strives to enrich the CEO, BOD, and the stockholders, although this later group is often victimized itself. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

I once owned a slight bit of stock in a major corporation whose BOD asked for proxy rights to pass a rule stating that no member of the BOD would be held liable for negligence, intentional or otherwise. The Declaration of Independence tells us that we possess certain unalienable rights. Such rights cannot be surrendered to a corporation.

[larsiemannen]

So, we shouldnt have internet because of those poor people working in the libary? C'mon man! You know that whenever there a new tech. innovations, they need people to fix, maintain and take care of such garbage.. There will allways be work in a society which are based on free trade, and if not, many people can work for them self - basics food, clothing and shelter. no problem man. capitalism is life. dont hurt life.

[LarcheOsborne]

I am by no means suggesting that we need abandon technological advances. I do argue that we cannot neglect those displaced from a productive role in society by such improvements.

Capitalism is simply means to an end -- namely human needs. These include employment, food, shelter, right to bargain collectively, safety, and so on. When capitalism comes to abuse these rights, I see need for government intervention. (constitution)

[LarcheOsborne]

That last line should have read (continued). The Right to Contract freely is indeed a very important right, but if taken too broadly, it can lead to severe human rights violations. Often it can result in a corporation with good lawyers dictating terms to a recipient who has no options -- clearly not a free exchange of items or services. (continued)

[LarcheOsborne]

I was not aware you lived in Norway. You live under civil law if I am not mistaken. I know very little of civil law, mush less its law of contracts, but I doubt the core components vary greatly.

Norway, unless I am mistaken and I may well be as I am too lazy to look it up, became a republic in 1848. At that time, you became the recipient of many positive rights. Don't disparage them. You live in a free and prosperous nation. (continued)

[larsiemannen]

In a capitalistic world there would be easier to 'defective men' to work due abolish minimum wage, and, freetrade to allow men to start more easely with whatever they want. men who produce stuff have more money to use on whatever. dont you think some of those money would go to poor and other 'defective people' ? Glenn Beck says he gives 20% of his income to charrities. thats atleast 10mill dollars! only from one guy!

[larsiemannen]

I don't see any arguments why it has to be less work place safety, or less insurance among the people, nor do I believe in higher prices by not waste resources on non-important stuff like bureacracy and other govt. plans.. wages are perfectly fit if the worker want to justify himself. by producing.

[larsiemannen]

Then people would care more about which currency they are choosing. Someone hustles you, like govt are doing on daily basis, or you can try to make a society based on free trade. Market will allways react on false products. Thats why we had so many problems after 1913?

[thevirtueallliberal]

Lars, does it look like the "private companies have "fixed" anything as evident of the current state of most Western economies right now ?Cont.

[larsiemannen]

if we removed 'private companies' we would have nothing to share.. its totally mindblowing to think that the govt. is more value than a humanbeing, when we now its the govt. that is dependent on human, not the other way around. I understand why they say that 'liberalism is a mentally disorder'.

[thevirtueallliberal]

Really ? That's not the case in the U.K., Canada, etc. You mean mental disorder and it's not the liberals with it pal, trust me .

[ZachandRob07]

you democrats blow my mind. TAX TAX TAX TAX!!!! do you like giving your hard earned money away to the government and watching them spend it on what they want.

[cook119]

@ZachandRob07 Some people do actually like to pay taxes for bombs to blow up terrorists police cars to chase criminals, and chalkboards to teach kids from. But some people don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves, the difference between the democrat and the republicans.

[thevirtueallliberal]

You have this romantic notion of Capitalism that never was .Can you name me one pure western country that doesn't have a balance between socialism and capitalism ? Would you live in such a country with no regulations ? 45,000 people are dieing from lack of health care a year .They don't have time to wait and see if insurance companies are ever going to grow a conscience.

[larsiemannen]

no, all countries are garbage if you discuss philosophy. I dont have any responsibility over your health. If you are lying there, bleeding to death, Its not my responsible to save you. I'm not ur slave, nor is insurance corp. Privatize -everything-. No regulations what-so-ever. Sick people are very good business. So, they need better and effective way to treat people, so they earn more.

[thevirtueallliberal]

"Sick people are good business" And there is your problem Lars . Wealth care has no business in health care . Also, your libertarian views hold no water . Most Libertarians are hypocrites .They decry the very system they support themselves under . When you choose to live in a structured society , you are basically signing a social contract . If you don't like that social contract you have the freedom to leave it .

[thevirtueallliberal]

By the way which country do you live in and why do you choose to live there ?

[larsiemannen]

It's not relevant where I live, and why.

[thevirtueallliberal]

Lars, it is relevant as to where you live . It's relevant because if you preach a certain ideology, you should live by it . I want to know where you live to see if that's the case ?

[larsiemannen]

My land is on this planet. That's all thats relevant. govt. dont OWN my land, nor do they OWN our Planet. i'm not a fucked up communist but an egoist. My location is not relevant of what I'm preaching, since my preaching, would be the same if I lived in germany, finland or US.

[larsiemannen]

So your critique is too the fact that people die without doctors, and ie insurance companies is providing capital for help. Why wouldnt be praise insurance companies which gives us the possibility to get help? Its an Ok way to spread damage on, because everyone who are in a insurance company -chosed- it. Over here governmen think its more important what collective thinks is of good, not man. That makes me sad.

[3star2nr]

hundred percent nonsese. google France, and go tell the french to privatize their health care and see if they dont tell you to go fuck yourself