Whoever thinks this cars got around corners faster than the current cars, is blind. And the laptimes show it. This year, laptime was around 1.13, and the cars in monaco were NEVER above 290 KM/H, so, those 5 secs, were obviously made up cornering much faster.
it looks like back then the cars were very out of control yet very under control. you could slide as much as you wanted and bring it back under control. with the current cars if you start sliding you have to get off the throttle or you crash. i could be wrong but i think thats because they used to have more mechanical grip and less downforce and now they have much less grip but more downforce.
ferrari are no longer the FIA's bitch.. its red bull now.. personally i dont hate vettel but he bitched too much during the canadian gp... "OH MY GOD RAIN! MUST RED FLAG RACE!" and they did. dude holy shit yes the rain was bad... thats why theres a nice thing called talent that will serve you well there.
[spoiler] The 2011 Monaco GP was really rather exciting in my opinion, even despite the lack of passing at the sharp end of the grid. They really shouldn't have allowed anyone to change tyres while the race was red-flagged. Completely ruined the strategies of those not on a one-stopper. Prettymuch gave the win to RBR when they allowed that. But hey... that's motor racing.
TV director: right, frentzen almost through start/finish line! finger ready at the overlay button! wait! wait! there it is, overlay on frank williams waiting for extatic celebrations.. wait... wait.. still nothing.. wait two more seconds... no?.. wait.. no reaction?, OK switch of overlay!
These cars look soooo much better than the cars nowadays. Now the cars are terribly ugly with these narrow rear spoilers and a giant front spoier with 1000 other details on it. And the sound... superb!
Frentzens lap was really good. I still think he was a very underrated driver.
I believe there are a few reasons that it looks quicker; first of them is that the power to general traction ratio (mechanical stability and aero downforce & efficiency) was a lot larger than what it is today, back then they had a lot more horse power but the cars were heavier, aerodynamis, tires and brakes not as good as today so the cars were a hadfull to drive compared to todays cars. I bet the trap speeds were greater too but the apex speeds lower.
i think these cars got around the corners quicker than now. somehow. the time isnt as fast cuz of sheer speed of new F1's. It just looks quicker here.
@clay111 It looked quicker cause the cars actually had a lot more visible oversteer and understeer. That was due to the old skool sticky slick tires and the wide track suspension (which allowed for a lot more mechanical grip than the narrow track in 98). Now F1 cars just rely on aerodynamics, which ruins the racing! 97 was the last real formula season.
they were faster in the corners i think, the cars riding height was way way waaay lower and the cars were wide, and dont forget the tyres, they were slick
@clay111 i think they go around the corners the same speed they do today. the only difference is they are slower when they drive straight and because of that the difference between the speed in the corner is not that big and it looks faster
@clay111 i think that looks fast because in those days, the drivers had much more work inside the cockpit than nowadays. it was much more difficult to handle those machines...you can see the cars going sideways, struggling in the corners, tire skidding... ohh i miss those times so much =[
its looks quicker as the framerate of modern cameras are much better than those a decade ago. th modern cars have a great deal more mid corner speed than these.
Fram erate does not matter, it can be 23 or 29 it is still frame rate per second, the difference is that this cars were wider and it looks different because they look bigger going through the corner, lap time is 4 seconds slower than 2008, you can attribute that to better brakes, tires and engine, probably 100hp more in favor to 2008 version!
I think mid corner speed is where they were about the same!
@Soundgarden1009 I think you're right - they probably were quicker in terms of cornering speed because of the bigger wings , wider suspension , bigger engines and wider/softer tyres - thats part of the reason why the regulations were changed for 1998 because the cornering speeds were just getting faster and faster
@Soundgarden1009 No, the times were slower because the track configuration in 1996 was different from what it is now. Pay attention to the Raz-kaz (spl?) hairpin and the turn leading into it in particular. It was way tighter back then.
monaco isnt about straightline speed at all but about cornering. besides that, compare schumacher's 1997 time of 1:18:25 to webber's 2010 pole of 1:13.826!
that 1:18:25 would have given him 22nd spot :) formula one has come a long way since then. also keep in mind that almost every new fia rule has been about reducing speed.
@thebearer the reason why they're slower is quite simple: aerodynamic efficiency. modern's F1 have much more downforce at a lower cost in terms of drag.
@Soundgarden1009 most likely they are quicker because these slow corners of Monaco involve more tire grip than aerodynamics and with the '97 F1 V10's and full slick tires they probably are going faster around indeed
@iluvworldofwarcraft Thats just not true though these older chassis of formula 1 didn't have half the technology used in todays formula 1 the tires are made better the suspensions are made better and overall these chassis today, work way more efficiently and the lap times show that.
it may look more exciting but the new cars are not only faster round corners, but way less dramatic when they do so. Many people argue F1 was way better before 2006 or even 2000, and that f1 racing now is a bit boring..
@Soundgarden1009 I believe one of the major reasons why the cars are faster now is the brakes. Due to the cars having a wider wheel base and I believe wider tires, mid corner speeds might have been the same as today. However the braking of modern day formula 1 has moved on massively. And it could be argued that is why we see less passing. The cars simply spend far shorter distance braking, leaving less time to make a pass work.
@Soundgarden1009 you´re actually right! The cars back then were a little bit wider (2m compared to 1,8m over the last few years). This led to a lower balance point and more stability.
@Tobi29493 No he's not correct and it's not true. this lap here, the fastest of the qualifying was a 1:18 2 . compared with the lap time of mark webber in 2010 which was a 1:13 8 , it's miles off. and in previous years in formula 1 the gap has been closer but still about 3 to 4 seconds, which is light years in racing. These older chassis just don't operate the same as todays and they aren't faster in any category except maybe straight line speed.
@Tobi29493 No he's not correct and it's not true. this lap here, the fastest of the qualifying was a 1:18 2 . compared with the lap time of mark webber in 2010 which was a 1:13 8 , it's miles off. and in previous years in formula 1 the gap has been closer but still about 3 to 4 seconds, which is light years in racing. These older chassis just don't operate the same as todays and they aren't faster in any category except maybe straight line speed.
@Soundgarden1009 It is quicker...the reason of the time difference is that they made change to the last corner of the Monaco circuit so cars go through there much faster now
@Soundgarden1009 f1 cars of now have less power then in 1980's where they had more power then a buggati veyron ss now they only 750hp or there abouts and hav better traction control systems and brakes
@Soundgarden1009 Sheer speed? Cars of those days have more sheer straightline speed, cars these days have lower straightline speed but much better handling because of better aerodynamics.
Hi xeenoon, you dim-witted piece of Limey garbage! I think you should shift your priorities towards those types of simple working-class sports (football, baseball, and other NIGGER SPORTS) you may comprehend, because even a COMPLETE moron can understand them....Why don't you reduce your masturbation frequency, so that you can at least think clear enough to do your routine-type slave labor? Welcome to reality, you dull-witted prince of mediocrity!
TheDRANALYSIS111 look at 3:08 villeneuve is standing in front of the tunnel, the marshal is showing the yellow flag, than look at 5:45 when Frenzen was at that corner, was the yellow flag still out. thats my opinion
Good find Clay - I suppose it makes me wonder why Michael didn't go out and do another lap to make absolutely sure of pole - even though he set the time early in the session.
That FW-19 is a beautiful car.
f1matt 1 month ago
These cars were safe enough. Bring them back...14 and I've been more interested in the years prior to me..
GrandPrixAlessio 1 month ago
It's a fucking sad fact about our times when 15-20 year old cars seem a gajillion more times ferocious and exciting than todays.
Fucking rule-makers need to be shot
Foxx1981 1 month ago
the car control is amazing! i miss these glory days!
SchumieFan01 1 month ago
Great to see this again, forgot Frentzen bagged the Pole here :-)
DAH210774 4 months ago
POOOOOOOOOOOOLE POSITION!!
ukks63 4 months ago 2
4:20 SO HOT
sydneyfc 5 months ago
Whoever thinks this cars got around corners faster than the current cars, is blind. And the laptimes show it. This year, laptime was around 1.13, and the cars in monaco were NEVER above 290 KM/H, so, those 5 secs, were obviously made up cornering much faster.
arys210 7 months ago
it looks like back then the cars were very out of control yet very under control. you could slide as much as you wanted and bring it back under control. with the current cars if you start sliding you have to get off the throttle or you crash. i could be wrong but i think thats because they used to have more mechanical grip and less downforce and now they have much less grip but more downforce.
ChristianSold1er 7 months ago
uhh.. much much more interesting than now..now you just watch and wonder who will be after vettel in the quallifications.. annoying >.<
govedar4o 7 months ago
Monaco looks great without the fences everywhere
ilferrari 8 months ago
ferrari are no longer the FIA's bitch.. its red bull now.. personally i dont hate vettel but he bitched too much during the canadian gp... "OH MY GOD RAIN! MUST RED FLAG RACE!" and they did. dude holy shit yes the rain was bad... thats why theres a nice thing called talent that will serve you well there.
IceCoolG4mes 8 months ago
[spoiler] The 2011 Monaco GP was really rather exciting in my opinion, even despite the lack of passing at the sharp end of the grid. They really shouldn't have allowed anyone to change tyres while the race was red-flagged. Completely ruined the strategies of those not on a one-stopper. Prettymuch gave the win to RBR when they allowed that. But hey... that's motor racing.
danthemanpatrick 9 months ago
TV director: right, frentzen almost through start/finish line! finger ready at the overlay button! wait! wait! there it is, overlay on frank williams waiting for extatic celebrations.. wait... wait.. still nothing.. wait two more seconds... no?.. wait.. no reaction?, OK switch of overlay!
repo4 9 months ago 5
Check out tyrell car with those side spoilers at 2:13
davorsertic 9 months ago
Shame we're not likely to get the V10\V12 era back.
darthbandon10 9 months ago
These cars look soooo much better than the cars nowadays. Now the cars are terribly ugly with these narrow rear spoilers and a giant front spoier with 1000 other details on it. And the sound... superb!
Frentzens lap was really good. I still think he was a very underrated driver.
evgeniwrc 9 months ago
BRING BACK MURRAY!!!!!!!!
iamrykm 9 months ago
Just imagine Gerhard Berger in the Williams 1997. He would DESTROYED them all
Austria4ever1000 11 months ago
2:10 WOW close! what a scene
Austria4ever1000 11 months ago
These were the days when a williams driver would be terrified of his boss if he cocked up. Something the team is missing these days.
rich1701 11 months ago 2
6:24 LOOOOOOL Murray LOL POOOOOLE!
federicozep 1 year ago
To be honest, at 6:28, Frank Williams is too happy... He should show more decency, his explosion of joy is not very fair to his opponents.
lol
regismo 1 year ago 2
Super HHF! 80's and 90's before the ban of slick tyres were the best years of F1.
onlytheonef 1 year ago
F1 was so good in the 90's !
bfmesserschmitt 1 year ago 10
@bfmesserschmitt also in 80s.
1986Chaitanya 1 month ago
f1 was better back then to much change now
stevenmcg69 1 year ago 2
Comment removed
ezcondition 1 year ago
Gotta love the music that those cars produce!!
The FIA has killed f1 with those useless rules!
These are real f1 cars! not those ugly v8's :(
DavidePrc 1 year ago
If my eyes don't deceive me MC drifted on 0.41
Orphe123 1 year ago
1997 the greatest championship of all time
jezzetv 1 year ago
Rascasse looked like it was a real mission of a corner to get right. too bad they changed it.
Boy10Dio 1 year ago
Comment removed
hfcollins 1 year ago
POOOOOAAAAAAWLLE POSITIOAAHN!! AHAHAHAHAAAAA~~!!!!
hfcollins 1 year ago
Comment removed
hfcollins 1 year ago
I believe there are a few reasons that it looks quicker; first of them is that the power to general traction ratio (mechanical stability and aero downforce & efficiency) was a lot larger than what it is today, back then they had a lot more horse power but the cars were heavier, aerodynamis, tires and brakes not as good as today so the cars were a hadfull to drive compared to todays cars. I bet the trap speeds were greater too but the apex speeds lower.
LeontariF1 1 year ago
pokerface von frank williams^^
Mahuu55 1 year ago
its a shame that we didnt see senna that year iam sure he woul be stay on pole 4 the whole season like he has done the first 3 races till his death
dennisdaniel86 1 year ago
amazing, villeneuve was really driving at his limits, great sliding.
bubi8894 1 year ago
Schumacher was a much faster driver then Jacques Villeneuve even in a poor handling ferrari
dave00075f1 1 year ago
Thanks for the upload
legend10044327 2 years ago
Pity Frentzen through it all away with the tyre choice for the race.
mvfF1Fanatic 2 years ago
Prost Mugen ????????
Austria4ever1000 2 years ago
LOOOL!!! Murrays Voice 6:25
MrEcclestoned 2 years ago 2
i think these cars got around the corners quicker than now. somehow. the time isnt as fast cuz of sheer speed of new F1's. It just looks quicker here.
Soundgarden1009 2 years ago 6
@Soundgarden1009 i agree. i think it looks quicker because the tv quality back then isnt as clear. i dunno
clay111 2 years ago 8
good thought. you could be correct
Soundgarden1009 2 years ago
@clay111 if blur tvs means an illusion of cars going faster, which makes f1 more exciting, then i will get rid of my hdtv for a 16" tube tv
mrmistercharles 1 year ago
@clay111 qualifing tyres will have given them a lot more grip too at this point. nice vid.
mikeromaniw 1 year ago
@clay111 It looked quicker cause the cars actually had a lot more visible oversteer and understeer. That was due to the old skool sticky slick tires and the wide track suspension (which allowed for a lot more mechanical grip than the narrow track in 98). Now F1 cars just rely on aerodynamics, which ruins the racing! 97 was the last real formula season.
engared 1 year ago
@clay111 i think there faster in coorners due to the wider wheelbase
T1carus 1 year ago
@clay111
they were faster in the corners i think, the cars riding height was way way waaay lower and the cars were wide, and dont forget the tyres, they were slick
ZsebtelepHUN 11 months ago
@clay111 the cars were shorter and wider, and therefore much more nimble. But they had less downforce and spent less time on the throttle.
thebearer 10 months ago
@clay111
Ive also noticed that all races look allot faster because you watch them on a little screen compared to the tv.
Regret696 10 months ago
@clay111 i think they go around the corners the same speed they do today. the only difference is they are slower when they drive straight and because of that the difference between the speed in the corner is not that big and it looks faster
DerInsahne 7 months ago
@clay111 i think that looks fast because in those days, the drivers had much more work inside the cockpit than nowadays. it was much more difficult to handle those machines...you can see the cars going sideways, struggling in the corners, tire skidding... ohh i miss those times so much =[
xansk8 7 months ago
@clay111 The cars seem lighter and smaller, maybe that is why? Todays cars seem very big and long.
ZerozPk 2 months ago
its looks quicker as the framerate of modern cameras are much better than those a decade ago. th modern cars have a great deal more mid corner speed than these.
houyt69 2 years ago
Fram erate does not matter, it can be 23 or 29 it is still frame rate per second, the difference is that this cars were wider and it looks different because they look bigger going through the corner, lap time is 4 seconds slower than 2008, you can attribute that to better brakes, tires and engine, probably 100hp more in favor to 2008 version!
I think mid corner speed is where they were about the same!
celpabedn 2 years ago
@Soundgarden1009 I think you're right - they probably were quicker in terms of cornering speed because of the bigger wings , wider suspension , bigger engines and wider/softer tyres - thats part of the reason why the regulations were changed for 1998 because the cornering speeds were just getting faster and faster
dave41184 1 year ago
@Soundgarden1009 No, the times were slower because the track configuration in 1996 was different from what it is now. Pay attention to the Raz-kaz (spl?) hairpin and the turn leading into it in particular. It was way tighter back then.
amjan 1 year ago
@Soundgarden1009
monaco isnt about straightline speed at all but about cornering. besides that, compare schumacher's 1997 time of 1:18:25 to webber's 2010 pole of 1:13.826!
that 1:18:25 would have given him 22nd spot :) formula one has come a long way since then. also keep in mind that almost every new fia rule has been about reducing speed.
bouwmr 1 year ago
@Soundgarden1009 Shorter wheelbase is probably why, and less power overall and less traction is why they are slower overall?
thebearer 1 year ago
@thebearer the reason why they're slower is quite simple: aerodynamic efficiency. modern's F1 have much more downforce at a lower cost in terms of drag.
quandore 1 year ago
@Soundgarden1009 most likely they are quicker because these slow corners of Monaco involve more tire grip than aerodynamics and with the '97 F1 V10's and full slick tires they probably are going faster around indeed
iluvworldofwarcraft 1 year ago
@iluvworldofwarcraft Thats just not true though these older chassis of formula 1 didn't have half the technology used in todays formula 1 the tires are made better the suspensions are made better and overall these chassis today, work way more efficiently and the lap times show that.
jraybay 10 months ago
it may look more exciting but the new cars are not only faster round corners, but way less dramatic when they do so. Many people argue F1 was way better before 2006 or even 2000, and that f1 racing now is a bit boring..
integralexpo 1 year ago 2
@Soundgarden1009 I believe one of the major reasons why the cars are faster now is the brakes. Due to the cars having a wider wheel base and I believe wider tires, mid corner speeds might have been the same as today. However the braking of modern day formula 1 has moved on massively. And it could be argued that is why we see less passing. The cars simply spend far shorter distance braking, leaving less time to make a pass work.
Ghostca 11 months ago
@Soundgarden1009 you´re actually right! The cars back then were a little bit wider (2m compared to 1,8m over the last few years). This led to a lower balance point and more stability.
Tobi29493 11 months ago
@Tobi29493 No he's not correct and it's not true. this lap here, the fastest of the qualifying was a 1:18 2 . compared with the lap time of mark webber in 2010 which was a 1:13 8 , it's miles off. and in previous years in formula 1 the gap has been closer but still about 3 to 4 seconds, which is light years in racing. These older chassis just don't operate the same as todays and they aren't faster in any category except maybe straight line speed.
jraybay 10 months ago
@Tobi29493 No he's not correct and it's not true. this lap here, the fastest of the qualifying was a 1:18 2 . compared with the lap time of mark webber in 2010 which was a 1:13 8 , it's miles off. and in previous years in formula 1 the gap has been closer but still about 3 to 4 seconds, which is light years in racing. These older chassis just don't operate the same as todays and they aren't faster in any category except maybe straight line speed.
jraybay 10 months ago
@Soundgarden1009
other way round :) more downforce now = higher cornering speed. we had v10's and v12's before, 1000hp engines, turbocharging etc etc etc.
eowdevastator 10 months ago
@Soundgarden1009 İ am totally agree with you)
shmk1020 9 months ago
@Soundgarden1009 It is quicker...the reason of the time difference is that they made change to the last corner of the Monaco circuit so cars go through there much faster now
rosun82 8 months ago
@Soundgarden1009 it's the almighty engine sounds, they were using beasts back then. Now they're using lambs
toureyaya24 8 months ago
@Soundgarden1009 They're going way slower in corners. Although compared to 2010 the traction/acceleration is way better
Connactzor 7 months ago
@Soundgarden1009 no mate, they look quicker around corners but they are not, modern f1's brake better, have drs and kers, an that helps them a lot
SennaHamilton4ever 6 months ago
@Soundgarden1009 3:00 today looks faster :)
imleafer 4 months ago
@Soundgarden1009 f1 cars of now have less power then in 1980's where they had more power then a buggati veyron ss now they only 750hp or there abouts and hav better traction control systems and brakes
ablair37 3 months ago
@Soundgarden1009 Sheer speed? Cars of those days have more sheer straightline speed, cars these days have lower straightline speed but much better handling because of better aerodynamics.
blainyrules 2 months ago
F1 cars look so much better in this configuration. They are tail-happy too. Hopefully those clowns running the FIA will finally get it right one year
ilferrari 2 years ago 26
hey this lap time must be canceled!!!!
he drove the best lap time under a yellow flag!!!!
xeenoon 2 years ago
Hi xeenoon, you dim-witted piece of Limey garbage! I think you should shift your priorities towards those types of simple working-class sports (football, baseball, and other NIGGER SPORTS) you may comprehend, because even a COMPLETE moron can understand them....Why don't you reduce your masturbation frequency, so that you can at least think clear enough to do your routine-type slave labor? Welcome to reality, you dull-witted prince of mediocrity!
TheDRANALYSIS111 2 years ago
TheDRANALYSIS111 look at 3:08 villeneuve is standing in front of the tunnel, the marshal is showing the yellow flag, than look at 5:45 when Frenzen was at that corner, was the yellow flag still out. thats my opinion
so fuck you bastard
xeenoon 2 years ago
it wasnt a waved yellow flag though. there is a difference
clay111 2 years ago 2
yes true
my bad, I have that overlooked sry
xeenoon 2 years ago 4
Pole Position!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ECT100 2 years ago 3
POLE POSITION. Gotta love that murray
FerrariFan2010 2 years ago 2
did any see the size of the mirrors on salo's car? THERE HUGE!
gerardbiteme 2 years ago
They weren't mirrors, they were aerodynamic winglets used in high downforce configuration.
rich1701 2 years ago
...Which have been eventually banned by the FIA very soon.
Serge192 2 years ago
They let Tyrrell get away with it for well over a year until everyone copied their design, it was starting to make a mockery of F1
rich1701 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
jfk87n 2 years ago
Does anybody have this race?
tubadude07 2 years ago
And after one lap, schumacher had a 6.3 second lead.
aj2718281 2 years ago 4
Hurray for HHF!
BrokenBaculum 2 years ago
Good find Clay - I suppose it makes me wonder why Michael didn't go out and do another lap to make absolutely sure of pole - even though he set the time early in the session.
GrandPrixGrandstand 3 years ago
Murrays voice "POOOLE Position" :D:D
Love it :D
IfIsF1SpeltBackwards 3 years ago 42
They destroyed this circuit and then start this in 1997 by screwing the swimming pool section.
GTAGIS 3 years ago
They also made rascasse lame too
tubadude07 2 years ago